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Skybird
10-22-22, 06:37 AM
DIE ZEIT writes:
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Two cuts and the Internet is gone

Sabotage of train radio, broken deep-sea cables, destroyed Internet cables: damage to Western communications infrastructure is becoming more frequent. How vulnerable are we?

Closed banks, no card payments, no Internet: It's as if someone has turned back time 20 or 30 years, is how British Member of Parliament Alistair Carmichael describes the situation on the Shetland Islands. After a deep-sea cable was damaged there again on Wednesday, telephones and the Internet failed in some places. In the previous week, a first cable between the Faroe Islands and Shetland Islands had already been damaged, and repairs are currently ongoing. This means that the only two cables that bring the Internet to Shetland have been completely or partially cut.

The situation on Shetland is a good example of how quickly damage to deep-sea cables can actually disrupt communications and cut off individual regions from the Internet if there is not sufficient redundancy. Because even if the term Internet sounds cloudy to many, as if the data were coming directly from the data cloud in the sky to our smartphones and laptops, this is wrong: The Internet is a very real network, the data packets travel long distances through cables under the earth and under the sea. For decades, this seemed safe and trouble-free, but now damage to the important lines is accumulating, and some of it looks like sabotage.

Some regions of the world are connected to just one cable

There are currently around 530 submarine cables running through the world's oceans, with a combined length of around 1.3 million kilometers. And while some are rather short, such as the 131-kilometer CeltixConnect cable between Ireland and the United Kingdom, others are very long: for example, the 20,000-kilometer Asia-America Gateway cable.

A good and impressive overview of all deep-sea cables is provided by the map of TeleGeography, a telecommunications market research company that compiles up-to-date data on deep-sea cables: If you zoom in there, you can quite easily find out which areas of the world are particularly vulnerable and where there is hardly any redundancy. In addition to the Shetlands, these include other islands off Scotland and some islands in the Pacific, some of which depend on a single cable connection. That became a problem for residents of the Tonga archipelago northeast of New Zealand in February, when a submarine volcanic eruption severed the cable there to Fiji in two places - the only Internet connection to the outside world, as the map shows. It took five weeks for the islands to regain Internet access.

Because of the simultaneous damage in several places, sabotage could be assumed in the case of the Shetland Islands. Scotland's head of government, Nicola Sturgeon, told the BBC that while there was currently no evidence of sabotage, the investigation was ongoing. However, one of her investigators said Thursday that it was quite a coincidence that two cables were damaged at the same time. The head of Faroe Telecom's infrastructure department, Páll Vesturbú, told the BBC on Friday that there was reason to believe the cables were accidentally damaged by a fishing vessel. He did not give details, however.

Russia, however, may have seen the incident as an opportunity for a show of force: according to observations by independent analyst H. I. Sutton, who specializes in submarines and underwater systems, a Russian government research vessel spontaneously changed its route to pass near the damaged cables. In fact, the "Akademik Boris Petrov" passed the passage between the Faroe and Shetland Islands on Saturday morning, as could be traced on the portal Vesselfinder.

The sabotage at the Deutsche Bahn fits into the picture

Shetland's Internet cables are not the only ones to take a hit this week: In Marseille, an important mainland Internet cable was cut on Wednesday night. This affected submarine cable connections between Europe, Asia and the United States, causing both data loss and longer website loading times, according to Zscaler.

Marc Helmus, an expert in network engineering in the telecommunications industry, finds not only the accumulation of attacks on communications infrastructure striking, but also the location of the latest incidents: "Marseille is the new gateway to submarine cables," says the expert in an interview with ZEIT ONLINE. The so-called landing station there is relatively new, connecting 16 submarine cables to the land: data is thus transported here via the mainland and then fed into the cables under the sea and vice versa. In addition to Marseille, important European landing stations are in Barcelona, near Lisbon, on the coast of the Netherlands and on the coast of Denmark. And while there are known incidents from the past where saboteurs or intelligence agencies like the NSA have tampered with undersea cables, it may be easier to attack the infrastructure beforehand - after all, it doesn't take submarines. "Why would I dive 20,000 feet down to the bottom of the ocean when I can drive to the landing station by car?" asks Helmus.

The sabotage of railroad cables also fits that bill. In early October, it paralyzed train radio and thus train traffic throughout northwestern Germany for half a day. Both attacks, at Deutsche Bahn and in Marseille, were very targeted, Helmus explains. "In the Bahn incident, someone knew very well what to do to cause the greatest possible damage." So far, he has only seen pictures of the damage in Marseille, but he believes that these also speak for the fact that the perpetrators knew their way around: "You can see quite clearly that the cables were separated directly at the entries into the shaft," he says.

Admittedly, it's too early to tell if these incidents are all related. In the case of the Shetland Islands and the cables off Marseille, it is also too early to speak of sabotage. Further investigations will show that. Helmus, however, has seen a lot of damage to network infrastructure in 25 years on the job. He says there are clear differences between vandalism and targeted sabotage - and he sees clear signs of sabotage in the case of the railroad as well as in Marseille. In both cases, he suspects there were perpetrators who knew their stuff. "An attack like this from the inside is much more dangerous because no one knows what will happen in the aftermath."

Russia interested in submarine cables

As long as only individual submarine cables or landing stations are sabotaged, the damage is limited because network operators have built in redundancies: If a connection fails, which also happens again and again in everyday life due to congestion, the data packets are sent via another route - for example, instead of the direct route from Germany to the U.S. via the Dutch coast via the longer eastern route through Asia and the Pacific. To do this, network operators secure certain connections from the consortia operating the cable connections and usually at least two different possible routes for each connection. This makes data loss unlikely on a day-to-day basis. "It's like a traffic jam on the freeway," Helmus explains, "if a truck overturns on the A7, I just drive via another freeway."

It only becomes critical when many connections are affected at the same time. "If trucks have overturned on several routes, it also becomes tight on the alternative routes." So if several submarine cables are damaged at the same time, problems can arise, Helmus warns: "If someone were to sabotage the very cables over which the traffic of the two largest network operators flows, that would be massive damage."

Critical information is publicly available

Fortunately, the network operators keep this information to themselves: exactly where they route their traffic along is not public knowledge. What is public knowledge, however, is the location of the deep-sea cables: These are precisely marked on corresponding nautical charts - actually to protect them, so that ships do not anchor there. In the interview, however, Helmus also shows nautical charts in which the exact name of some cables is given. Combined with other publicly available information, attackers can figure out how to attack systems with little redundancy, such as islands with few connections.

This is particularly dangerous for strategically important locations. For example, Ireland, which is both on the important link between Europe and the U.S. and is the European base of some of the major U.S. tech companies: the Russian Navy's interest in submarine cables there is high, the Irish Times reported in January 2022. At almost the same time, the head of the British Army, Admiral Tony Radakin, warned the Guardian of a threat to submarine cables from rapidly increasing Russian undersea activity.

In the case of Deutsche Bahn, too, the necessary information was publicly available, Helmus explains: "There are precise descriptions for the train radio, and also for the backup concepts." These also state the destructive forces that the corresponding cables can withstand; in the case of Deutsche Bahn, for example, "the transverse pressure of the cable is six kilonewtons," says Helmus. So attackers can easily figure out what tools and methods they need to cut them.

Whoever runs the cables has power over the data

It's not just in terms of resistance to sabotage attacks that Europe is doing poorly: countries outside Europe, such as China and the U.S., have recognized the strategic importance of submarine cables and are investing in their own infrastructure accordingly. Even the big tech companies are starting to operate their own deep-sea cables to route their own data traffic. Europe, on the other hand, operates few of its own cables under the sea and is thus heavily dependent on infrastructure from outside, including U.S. companies. This can be dangerous, because in case of doubt, the intelligence services of the operating countries have access to the data flowing through.

But autonomous infrastructure can also sometimes stand in the way of resilience: For example, some Pacific islands recently wanted to expand their barely resilient connection to the Internet with additional submarine cables in view of a few central cables. But the U.S. warned against China: The Chinese company Huawei had submitted a particularly favorable bid for an additional cable. The company was working with the Chinese intelligence service, the U.S. authorities said - that was a security problem.

But the American NSA does not have a clean slate either: according to information from whistleblower Edward Snowden, it had not only siphoned off data from submarine cables, but also gained access to the German Internet node DE-CIX and intercepted information there. DE-CIX is one of the largest Internet nodes in the world; Internet cables from many countries converge there. As it turned out later, the German intelligence service BND had been forwarding data from the Internet node directly to the NSA for years.

It's even easier for U.S. intelligence agencies when the data passes directly through the United States. "European Internet traffic is often routed via the U.S., even though the sender and receiver are located in Europe," says Rena Tangens of the net-policy association Digitalcourage. The connection via the U.S. is even often cheaper - possibly deliberately: "U.S. authorities want to have access to our data." A few years ago, the so-called Schengen routing was discussed as a measure against this, proposed by the former Telekom CEO René Obermann: data traffic should be kept in Europe and not routed via the USA. However, the idea is almost ten years old - and nothing has happened.

-----------------------------
This is a vizualisation of the cable infrastructure between continents:

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Sabotage is, beside blackouts, the other big reason why I always store a solid ammount of cash money in my reach, not at home, but also not at a bank - and have already weeks ago started with changing 100 and 50 Euro notes into 20, 10 and 5 Euro notes and 1 and 2 Euro coins when shopping. I pay with bigger notes and store the smaller change. This is only about having liquidity in small quantities available if need be.

mapuc
10-22-22, 06:53 AM
We are truly vulnerable.

While reading you post I came to think of a discussion we had about radio receives, so I started to search for it and found it

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=250508

If Internet is cut off a modern version of such a thing would be handy.

By the way I toke a look at the map-It has missed to small cables going to and from the island I live on.

Markus

Jimbuna
10-22-22, 07:11 AM
Great cable map Sky :up:

Skybird
10-22-22, 07:21 AM
I recommend to have this:

https://www.amazon.de/Sangean-MMR-88-DAB-Taschenlampe-Kopfh%C3%B6reranschluss/dp/B071R3SGZQ/ref=pd_rhf_d_se_s_pd_sbs_rvi_sccl_2_1/260-2144819-6501131?pd_rd_w=P5zYx&content-id=amzn1.sym.28461540-d419-4858-ad96-4e172e722a54&pf_rd_p=28461540-d419-4858-ad96-4e172e722a54&pf_rd_r=ZCS011B66HPN1ZJW3Z08&pd_rd_wg=TXy8p&pd_rd_r=b849f245-0cd5-4c83-94ec-55c3fd75e4f3&pd_rd_i=B071R3SGZQ&psc=1

Both analogue FM and digital DAB+ radio. Charging by solar panel or crank and dynamo. Rechargable lithium battery. Operation via ordinary CR123 battery also possible. Has good manufacturing quality, btw. Good sound for it's size.



https://www.satelittservice.com/assets/img/1024/1024/bilder_nettbutikk/1525f9569ead6bb035aaf92570a21a2f-image.jpeg


Dont fall for the advertized powerbank function, however, As almost always with devices of this kind, its a joke.


I have one of these, and one for my parents, plus a cheaper normal battery radio, and a solid world receiver. I always try to build double redundancy regarding important things. Stuff can break. Or go dysfunct just by laying in the cupboard some longer time - has all happened to me.

Jimbuna
10-22-22, 07:25 AM
Are you expecting armageddon soon? :)

Skybird
10-22-22, 08:04 AM
Are you expecting armageddon soon? :)
I expect 2023 to become the first of several really bad years, with smooth transition from planned rolling blackouts for a couple of hours in ever changing, small regions and districts, to unannounced, unplanned desaster blackouts affecting severla states if not most of gemany and from there maybe cascading beyond the borders - with all the desasterous longterm consequences this will cause.

I do the math, and always get comparable results. And the results I do not like. It cannot work the way they want it to work. I simply mdo not see how this shpudl be possible. If the glass holds one liter and you only have half a litre, then you cnanot get the glass full. You can stare at it, you cna diuscuss it, you can pray or hope, you can shake it or place it somewhere else or change the colour of the table cloth: 1000ml and 500 ml just are not the same thing, and enbevr will be, no matter how you turn it.

The electric power threat is FAR MORE SERIOUS than the gas crisis. And I think the winter 2023/24 will become MUCH WORSE than this coming one.

There is no short-terme doslution possible. The shockfront opf the coming winter we must endure, meetign it forntally rioght in itscentre. But what wqorrie sme is that nobody does anything meaningful to chnage thigns for the better in the long run, they just stick to their illusion of the German renewables energy transition so to not havign to admit that all the destruciton to the powergrid in the past ten years has been done in vain and on the grounds of criminal illusions and criminal carelessness. The german plan cannot work, and it will never work. Not now, and not in the future. Its preassumptions already are terribly wrong. The expectations cannot be met, not now, not in the future. It just cannot work. Simple physics, simple economics, simple math. It cannot work as the Germans dream it to be.

I do not expect armageddon, but a massive, deep fall, a dramatic annihilation of wealth, and later on the the collapse of the Euro and in its wake the massive plundering of private savings, like its always the case with euphemistically so-called "currency reforms". And nothing but ideology-drunk caspars all around! The situation is truly and foremost hopeless. Look at Bubble-Olaf's blasé refusal to perform, look at the Green'S ideological stubborness, look at the debts and inflation.

Shady Bill
10-22-22, 01:43 PM
Sabotage is, beside blackouts, the other big reason why I always store a solid amount of cash money in my reach, not at home, but also not at a bank - and have already weeks ago started with changing 100 and 50 Euro notes into 20, 10 and 5 Euro notes and 1 and 2 Euro coins when shopping. I pay with bigger notes and store the smaller change. This is only about having liquidity in small quantities available if need be.


I also urge you to stock up on silver bullion, Skybird. Not much has to happen in a post-war event for paper and cheap euro coins to become without value. Once people lose faith in their government and laws, currencies quickly collapse. I chose silver over gold because:

1) Gold is overvalued.

2) Silver is undervalued. China controls most of the world's silver deposits. Silver should be around $100+/ounce but instead is at $20.

3) Gold is used almost entirely for decorative jewelry only. It serves few other useful purposes. Especially in a post-war setting.

4) Silver has the highest conductivity of any metal, it can be used in electronics where it can easily replace copper if need be.

5) Silver is easier used in day-to-day barter and small transactions.

6) High luster and reflection makes it excellent for barter from a psychological standpoint.

I recommend 10 ounce bars that are pre-scored in 1 ounce increments.

Often times silver rounds have imagery on them. Consider what it shows and if you would want to use this in actual post-war transactions. I stay away from government issued silver or coins. I recommend people to own multiple kilograms if possible (US$750/kg currently).

Walmart now even sells it here.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-Kilo-Cast-Poured-APMEX-Silver-Bar/1618192089?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1118&&adid=22222222227760768324&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=621398150050&wl4=pla-1748424126845&wl5=9017486&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=118771194&wl11=online&wl12=1618192089&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqc6aBhC4ARIsAN06NmOPGNl8XiqN1TRsNk5d tH0bcQ00D6pWyduLILU40XbtDncXJN5VkFsaAhbfEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Skybird
10-22-22, 03:25 PM
1) Gold is overvalued.Depends on when you buy - or have bought... ;) I'm currently at a net gain of almost 65-75%...

More difficult is silver when it comes to storage, you need much more - secure - space.

Prohibitions become more and more a concern. We have had them, and several states have recently introduced gold prohibitions.

For a pragmatic concern - as was my notice on small notes - , silver is good because its denomination possibilities, you can trade with it smaller values and pay smaller price tags than with gold, where you would need to precisely measur even smaller quantities. When you just buy goods of the everyday life's needs, say a bread, paying with gold is more "complicated" than with silver when one ounce (=31gr) of it has the value of 1750 Euro. An ounce of silver currently costs around 25 Euros over here.

Stocks are for investment. Gold is for attempting to conserve buying power. Silver is for practical payment in everyday life. - Many people mistake these three difference for each other. In hyperinflation, neither these nor the possession of houses or land will save you. Possession prohibitions and state-enforced mortages will take place, cracking down on everybody. We have had it, we have been there, and repeatedly. Well sitrated people without debts became poor, state-wanted. People who had houses without debts and mortgages, were given a state mortage of 50% and more, up to 100%. Owning gold was prohibited.



You also depend on people actually believing you that you offer them real gold and silver, not counterfeit metals. Nobody is used to real moeny, we all are just tarding with currency, not money. Dollar and Euro and FIAT money is no money, its only counterfeit money, its a mere currency. A counting unit without real value. Mot money with an itnrinsic value.

Brett Scott is an interesting author for cash versus digital money issues, his latest book "Cloudmoney" is soon to be released in German, in English already available. He shows how private bjusiness, banks, credit card companies, tech companies want to control people to become more powerful themselves. If there is no cash money anymore, not only is the totalitarian surveillance of any action, movement and decision you make and that involves payments total and complete, making you a crystal-clear and transparent person that is in full "readable" for these, but it also enables powers above you to predict your next steps, your behaviopur, your choices and preferences, and then can boycott you, manipulate you, to make it impossble for you to stay included, isolate you from the "whole", society around you, public life where you can give yourself a voice, etc. . Just imagine what you woudl do if you cannot pay anymore, for nothing, if you are locked out of any possbility to pay for anything, no matter what. You would be in extremely big troubles. You could be a millionaire, and nevertheless struggle to merely survive.

Now imagine this power in the hands of the wrong people. State governments. Dictatorships. Imagine the EU. Donald Trump. Mullah regimes. Xi. See it in action in China, their social point scoring system is much the same thing: it sanctions unwanted behaviour, and rewards obedience and servility, it can allow or prevent peopel travelling asround, get access to this or that, buy here or there. A cash-free society can do the same - without being accused of tyrannic abuse of camera surveillance and internet censorship like in China. It can pose to be the accepted norm of social behaviour, while being a tyrant itself.

Cash-free society is a nightmare scenario for me. Thats why I rigorously boycott the use of plastic to pay in shops in town. I would hope that in case of a blackout people also will learn form the direct experience of being unable to pay with credit cards how extremely dangerous it is.



Same for crypto currencies, or smartphone payment, and fintechs. They all are weapons to destroy cash money.


Central banks and state institutions all conspire to enforce cash-free payments and abandon cash money, including and especially the central banks, and the EU. Its organised crime waging a war against freedom, anonymity and privacy. And these are preconditions for free speech, free choice, rights to beindovodual and akem your won choices. Vegan governments can "educate" you by blocking you from paying for meat products. Tyrannic governments can track you down if you live in the underground and are under threat to be arrested for having an unwanted opinion that you voiced somewhere.

Also, once cash is no more available, banks and credit card companies can raise fees as they like and can plunder you as they see fit - you cannot evade them anymore.

Your shopping habits can become evidence in a case of sanction-worthy living style. Or do you know what the lawsi n your country in the future will be, how dramatic laly they may be turne don behalf of some political extremism, or religious tyranny? Abortion laws in the US, anyone? Legalisation and recriminalisation of cannabis? Membership fees paid for a politically or socially unwanted club, or organisation?

Also, the evidence created by your record showing what you have NOT paid for, and thus have not supported although the government wants you to suppoort it, to demonstrate your compliance and what a good and submissive citizen you are?

Cash-free society is a weapon to establish tyranny. Its as dangerous as being locked in room with an angry dog that has rabies.

And no, paying with credit card in a bar is neither cool, nor sexy. Its more like nicotine, it just stinks. But I let you smoke, if you want, in prinmciple my tolerance has limits, but they are wider than some think. Just when I get forced to smoke as well - that is when I get angry at the latest.

Skybird
10-22-22, 03:26 PM
Did I just hijack my own thread...? :D :haha:
:subsim:

Shady Bill
10-24-22, 10:04 AM
Trying multi quote :ping:

Depends on when you buy - or have bought... ;) I'm currently at a net gain of almost 65-75%...

Gold definitely is better for investment, with current global political climate.
Still not convinced it has a lot of use in a survival setting. I do agree, gold is much easier to transport.

Prohibitions become more and more a concern. We have had them, and several states have recently introduced gold prohibitions.

I am afraid I don't understand? Are you saying that your government has barred its citizenry from buying and hence really in a sense, owning, gold?
If so, why are you on here talking to me, and not revolting? That is insane. I must be misunderstanding.

Gold is for attempting to conserve buying power. Silver is for practical payment in everyday life.

Very astute statement. I like that...

Skybird
10-24-22, 10:32 AM
Gold is no investment, it produces no interests. Any gains you get from it, are from other factors: political instability for exmaple, inflation, but not from economic fostering. Its a safeguard to conserve buying power, "not more". Anythign more is just an unplanned benefit.

Do you really not know that there has been an extensive gold prohibition in the US 1934 to 1974? That the United Kingdom had (still has?) tight restrictions in place limiting the amount of gold private people were allowed to legally hold? That Germany already had severla limitations and even complete prohibtions of private ownership of gold, every time linked to high inflations and lousy state finances? That India 2 or 3 years ago has made another attempt to prohibit the owning/trading of gold?

Owning gold is a way to avoid fraudulent state finance currencies like paper Dollar and Euro, and thus states hate it. The idea is the same like in the medieval: by securing minting privileges, kings back then were able to forge silver coins be reducing their silver content and replacing it with tin. That way they could forge more coins to buy war stuff with, then they actaully had silver.

The idea behind paper money is the same. They call it FIAT money, from Latin: fiat: "it shall become, it shall be". Fiat lux: there shall be light. It means the "money" has no value, but that one has the hope that one day by magic and miracle it may get value. One day, the coutnerfeit money is hoped to turn into rela money.

Money has an intrinsic value. Paper money has none. Thats why Voltaire said: every paper money over time inevitably returns to its intrinsic value, which is zero. And Ludwig von Mises said: "Money is a trading good like any other." By that he did NOT mean that you can take state counterfeit currency and then trade it like we do at the stockmarkets today, but he meant that money derives from an ordinary good that is traded on the market, and then people agree on is value and its pragmatism, and by consensus agree to accept it to have additional functions that then actually make it the money of this market. And what many different things have been used as money in this meaning! Rare Feathers. precious seeds. Bacon slices. Nuts. Seashells. Precious metals have advanatges. They do not rot. Their value is the same, no matter in what form you bring them into, its the weight alone that decides the market value. Water doe snot destroy them, fire only melts them form certian highe rtemperature son, and even then it doe snto get desroye,d only alters its form and shape but "is still there". You can cut them in small and big pieces, according to your needs. All this are reasons why it is gold and silver that made it to lasting value and fame over the past thousands of years, and not bacon slices or bird feathers anymore. In this meaning it is to be understood that they have a - market-apporoved "intrinsic" value. Its no natural law, but pragmatic concensus of people.

In the early times of the US, after founding time, there were half a dozen different dollar currencies from private mints in circulation! And that was okay, because the word dollar comes from "Taler", and the word Taler stems from a physical unit indicating a certain amount of something, like carat. Both are weight units. A silver dollar is silver with the weight of one "dollar", like you say silver, 31 grams of it, which is called: one ounce. It does not matter who minted the coin, and whether it has state approval or not, it just does not matter, a dollar of silver from private mint A is the same value like an amount of one dollar of silver from mint B.

Governments cannot inflate their buying options if they are bound to absolute quantities of physically existing items of value, like gold and silver, and they are angry because they cannot give these items their own wanted value, but it is the market deciding the value of items. In this meaning, items have an "intrinsic value" independent from government control. Thats why they ban private people from holding these independent value items, like gold, and replaced these real-money systems with fraudulent counterfeit-currency systems.

That many central banks nevertheless hord gold and buy it like crazy (espcially the Russians, increaisngly again China), should tell you something. For example that they are telling lies to the people when they say gold has no value today, is pointless. They buy it and hold it because they know all to well that it is the real money there is. Not their worthless dollar notes and Euro coins. These are nothing, are a ponzi scheme only. The plastic chips you buy in a casino to play with, is the same. Before you leave, you trade it back into real currency, because outside the casino nobody would accept you paying with plastic coins. When the government says: the D-Mark is gone, now its the Euro, all your notes sooner or later have no buying power anymore. Try that stunt with gold, silver, material values like jewels! Politicians can preach a thouand times that jewels are immoral and gold shall not be seen as valuable. People will not care for their obvious nonsense.

These counterfeit paper currency systems only run as long as enough people believe the lies and illusions. Once the mistrust gains a critical mass, its game over and the system explodes. Then its Sajonara to the national economy for many years to come, and most people lose almost everything they ever had. - We have plot course for that destination, and have put our economy on autopilot to follow it tot he bitter end.


Some clever smartheads say"You cannot eat gold!" Thats true. But I can eat what I can buy with gold, and if I have no bartering items to barter with, I cannot buy anything to eat. Simple, eh? ;)

Shady Bill
10-24-22, 10:57 AM
Do you really not know that there has been an extensive gold prohibition in the US 1934 to 1974?

Sir, I am but a simple man...I had no idea. But am reading up on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act :hmmm::o

How was this allowed to happen in the US? What sort of fruitcake president comes up with this? FDR of all people I guess...certainly no fan there.

That the United Kingdom had (still has?) tight restrictions in place limiting the amount of gold private people were allowed to legally hold? That Germany already had severla limitations and even complete prohibtions of private ownership of gold, every time linked to high inflations and lousy state finances? That India 2 or 3 years ago has made another attempt to prohibit the owning/trading of gold?


I assume the amount of gold one can own is pretty large? I am a man of modest means and desires. Certainly no gold trader by any means. Any gold I acquire would automatically be transferred to my wife's possession as per normal protocol.

Shady Bill
10-24-22, 10:58 AM
I was born in 1975. I guess they ended this madness before my lifetime.
God showed favor on me once again.

Skybird
10-24-22, 11:13 AM
How was this allowed to happen in the US?
How was it allowed to happen to end the gold standard that bound the value of the paper dollar to the gold the US owned? Simple answer: Vietnam. The costs of the war had ruined the state finances, more liquidity and buying power for war stuff was needed than the US had dollars and its economy could produce in profits. Not if dolalrs were emant to mean a real material value - like it was when the dollar was still bound to the amount of gold the Fed Reserve held. - Well, a bit simplified, I know, but lets keep it simple, for the purpose of this brief post.

Its alsways the same story. People still believing centran banks are "independent", are fooling themselves. The reason central banls were founded and allowed by politicians is to repalce real money with fraudulent currency schemes and ponzi schemes! In this meaning they were never independent form politicss, but fulfill the order politics has given them. Today, the ECB in Europe executes this exemplarily. The first centrla bank of the world, the Bank of England, in the end was founded by private entrepreneurs in the wake of the crashing state finances in England due to the wars against Napoleon. They founded a lending organisation that lended private money from business to the crown, in the following thirty years or so the crown gave it more and more priviliges until it ended up with pretty much that power the Bank of England, which it was later renamed as, today holds.

Centrals banks showed up because politicians had run their states bancrupt. That simple it is.

I recommend you one book, which is easy to read, not long, and includes the basics. I consider it to be a classic on the topic and one of the best books on money ever written. Easy to read, and short. The download is FREE, and LEGAL !


https://cdn.mises.org/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money_ 3.pdf



The first who had a paper money system actually were - the Chinese, in the 12th century. There was a kingdom that was at war and had a rat-tail of social issues and wanted to also help replacing the copper coin currency they had being replaced wiht something more pragmatic in everyday use. To cut history short, not even 30 years later, the economy was completely busted and had crashed, civil war was raging and the fire had spread across the borders into one or two other kingdoms as well. The new money had completely obliterated the social order and the economic system of that place, of that time. The Chinese abandoned paper money and did not touch it again until modern time.