Is nothing sacred?

[Rockstar]

The Chess World Is Absolutely Losing It Over Cheating Allegations After Massive Upset

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3yyq/the-chess-world-is-absolutely-losing-it-over-cheating-allegations-after-massive-upset

31-year-old Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen wasn’t supposed to lose to Hans Niemann. Until he did.

The chess world has been rocked by online allegations of cheating after a top chess grandmaster was toppled by a relative newcomer this week in a major high stakes tournament in St. Louis.

31-year-old Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen—rated the top player in the world by the International Chess Federation (FIDE)—abruptly withdrew from the Sinquefield Cup in St. Louis after a third-round defeat by Hans Niemann, a young chess prodigy from the United States.

Soon after his loss, Carlsen posted a cryptic tweet featuring a speech by football manager Jose Mourinho. "I prefer not to speak,” Mourinho said in the 2020 video. “If I speak I am in big trouble…and I don't want to be in big trouble."


The defeat was an upset for the ages, given Carlsen had played 53 classical matches without a loss (though Niemann had defeated him one month earlier in a non-classical match). Niemman also had an ELO rating several hundred points lower than Carlsen and was playing black, which has a slight but statistically notable disadvantage because the white side moves first.

“It must be embarrassing for the world champion to lose to an idiot like me,” Niemann said in an interview shortly after the victory. “I feel bad for him.”

Carlsen’s implications rocked the chess community, which quickly began speculating online that Niemann must have cheated, despite no evidence of foul play being presented from Carlsen or event organizers. On Reddit, r/chess has been a firestorm of gossip since the loss, with many observers tracking the allegations and counter allegations in minute by minute detail.

In several comments on Twitch, American chess grandmaster Hikaru Nakamura implied Nieman may have had a history of online cheating. Emil Sutovsky, Director-general of FIDE, also noted that Carlsen wasn’t the type of player to quit the tournament over petty spite:

Emilchess
@EmilSutovsky
·
Follow
No matter how his tournaments went, @MagnusCarlsen never quit. He must have had a compelling reason, or at least he believes he has it. Don't call him a sore loser or disrespectful. I shall not speculate on the reasons of his withdrawal, but probably would expect TD to air them.
2:25 PM · Sep 5, 2022

In the wake of Carlsen’s vague allegations, event organizers say they delayed the online broadcast of the fourth round by 15 minutes, and ramped up event metal detection and RFID checks on players ahead of the next round.

The Sinquefield Cup features cash prizes as high as $350,000, and has been a major step on the World Grand Chess Tour since 2015. Carleson has won the cup twice in the last decade, and had never before withdrawn from an ongoing event.

“This is truly a humbling day for me,” Niemann said in a Tweet shortly after the win. “I am eternally grateful for the opportunity to play chess at the highest level and live out my dreams. A few years ago, my chess dreams were quickly dwindling but thankfully they rose from the dead.”

Direct accusations of cheating in the chess world are rare and often hard to prove. In real-world over the board (OTB) chess, cheating usually comes in the form of somehow obtaining outside move advice through hidden communications systems, or embedding computers in clothing or footwear that can predict game outcomes and provide move recommendations.

One recent proof of concept involved using vibration-based buttons in a player’s shoes to communicate with a Raspberry Pi Zero running the open source Stockfish chess engine hidden somewhere in the player’s clothing. In a writeup of that proof-of-concept, the device's designer wrote that "I was planning to recruit a 'plausibly-good' chess player to use the shoes to win the world championship," and that he was planning on creating an updated version of the cheating device: "This proof-of-concept only needed to fool my mates, in a pub, for the duration of 2 games. To win the world championships we're going to have to get much more serious." That post has gone viral on Hacker News, though there is no evidence that this device or any other was used by Niemman.

Cheating in online chess is significantly more common, and online events have been routinely plagued by scandal during the last few years.

For their part, event organizers wouldn’t speculate on the motivation for Carlsen’s abrupt departure, or comment on the parade of online gossip that has accompanied his exit.

“A player’s decision to withdraw from a tournament is a personal decision, and we respect Magnus’ choice, ″ Tony Rich, Executive Director of Saint Louis Chess Club, said in a statement. “We look forward to hosting Magnus at a future event in Saint Louis.”

[Buddahaid]

Nothing should be sacred.

[Skybird]

"Empty vastness - no trace of holiness!" - Hui-Neng, Zen patriarch

:D

Serious, the article reveals no proven evidence pro or agianst anythign and anyone.
But I know the problem is real, and a lot of cheating no longer happens just at online chess platforms (thats why I do not play there), but in professional touranment business, too. Modern elctronics... well, evertyhing has two sides.

I played correspondence chess, and there it was never considere dcheating if you used books for research in analysis. Many players played CC just to deepen their theoretical knowledge and analysing capabilities. Later, when software b ecame good enogzhh for the task, copmp0tuers entered this realm, too. I still do not see that as chetain in that context as long as it is not done in the hiodden while claiming one does not use it. CC is simply another context, and analysing in depth and with all means avilable is declared goal of the effort.

Three players I played with in this way (using emails instead of postcards, however), for 20 years, unfortunately all three fell victim to Corona. Never no more, they are gone.

In my youth days I played CC tournaments (via postcard) and in the German association, and successfully.

Chess is the game of games. :yeah:

[Platapus]

Unless there is evidence of cheating, we really can't assume that it happened.


As a recovering ChessNut, I have beaten players that were much better than I was. Whether that was due to my playing my best or my opponent playing their worst, it does happen. Not very often, but not impossible.



I have had my patzer butt kicked by players less experienced/skilled than I was. :oops:. The later happening more often than the former. :oops::oops:



Also at tournament levels, the physical and mental condition of the players has some influence.


Bottom line, there are several reasons why one particular person wins and another one loses with out assuming any cheating.

[Gorpet]

The Chess World Is Absolutely Losing It Over Cheating Allegations After Massive Upset

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3yyq/the-chess-world-is-absolutely-losing-it-over-cheating-allegations-after-massive-upset

31-year-old Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen wasn’t supposed to lose to Hans Niemann. Until he did.

The chess world has been rocked by online allegations of cheating after a top chess grandmaster was toppled by a relative newcomer this week in a major high stakes tournament in St. Louis.

31-year-old Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen—rated the top player in the world by the International Chess Federation (FIDE)—abruptly withdrew from the Sinquefield Cup in St. Louis after a third-round defeat by Hans Niemann, a young chess prodigy from the United States.

Soon after his loss, Carlsen posted a cryptic tweet featuring a speech by football manager Jose Mourinho. "I prefer not to speak,” Mourinho said in the 2020 video. “If I speak I am in big trouble…and I don't want to be in big trouble."


The defeat was an upset for the ages, given Carlsen had played 53 classical matches without a loss (though Niemann had defeated him one month earlier in a non-classical match). Niemman also had an ELO rating several hundred points lower than Carlsen and was playing black, which has a slight but statistically notable disadvantage because the white side moves first.

“It must be embarrassing for the world champion to lose to an idiot like me,” Niemann said in an interview shortly after the victory. “I feel bad for him.”

Carlsen’s implications rocked the chess community, which quickly began speculating online that Niemann must have cheated, despite no evidence of foul play being presented from Carlsen or event organizers. On Reddit, r/chess has been a firestorm of gossip since the loss, with many observers tracking the allegations and counter allegations in minute by minute detail.

In several comments on Twitch, American chess grandmaster Hikaru Nakamura implied Nieman may have had a history of online cheating. Emil Sutovsky, Director-general of FIDE, also noted that Carlsen wasn’t the type of player to quit the tournament over petty spite:

Emilchess
@EmilSutovsky
·
Follow
No matter how his tournaments went, @MagnusCarlsen never quit. He must have had a compelling reason, or at least he believes he has it. Don't call him a sore loser or disrespectful. I shall not speculate on the reasons of his withdrawal, but probably would expect TD to air them.
2:25 PM · Sep 5, 2022

In the wake of Carlsen’s vague allegations, event organizers say they delayed the online broadcast of the fourth round by 15 minutes, and ramped up event metal detection and RFID checks on players ahead of the next round.

The Sinquefield Cup features cash prizes as high as $350,000, and has been a major step on the World Grand Chess Tour since 2015. Carleson has won the cup twice in the last decade, and had never before withdrawn from an ongoing event.

“This is truly a humbling day for me,” Niemann said in a Tweet shortly after the win. “I am eternally grateful for the opportunity to play chess at the highest level and live out my dreams. A few years ago, my chess dreams were quickly dwindling but thankfully they rose from the dead.”

Direct accusations of cheating in the chess world are rare and often hard to prove. In real-world over the board (OTB) chess, cheating usually comes in the form of somehow obtaining outside move advice through hidden communications systems, or embedding computers in clothing or footwear that can predict game outcomes and provide move recommendations.

One recent proof of concept involved using vibration-based buttons in a player’s shoes to communicate with a Raspberry Pi Zero running the open source Stockfish chess engine hidden somewhere in the player’s clothing. In a writeup of that proof-of-concept, the device's designer wrote that "I was planning to recruit a 'plausibly-good' chess player to use the shoes to win the world championship," and that he was planning on creating an updated version of the cheating device: "This proof-of-concept only needed to fool my mates, in a pub, for the duration of 2 games. To win the world championships we're going to have to get much more serious." That post has gone viral on Hacker News, though there is no evidence that this device or any other was used by Niemman.

Cheating in online chess is significantly more common, and online events have been routinely plagued by scandal during the last few years.

For their part, event organizers wouldn’t speculate on the motivation for Carlsen’s abrupt departure, or comment on the parade of online gossip that has accompanied his exit.

“A player’s decision to withdraw from a tournament is a personal decision, and we respect Magnus’ choice, ″ Tony Rich, Executive Director of Saint Louis Chess Club, said in a statement. “We look forward to hosting Magnus at a future event in Saint Louis.”

Well, You bring a 31 year old Norwegian man
to Saint Louis Mo USA. What did you expect? Between Southern female spread legs you lose your mind.And your future.LOL

[Aktungbby]

reported:nope:

[Gorpet]

reported:nope:

What ? You have got to tell me . Were you offended ? and just what offended you. I just might have to report you for offending me.

[Gorpet]

You are.Interesting!

[Skybird]

You just dont know when to stop. Reported.

[Gorpet]

You just dont know when to stop. Reported.

OK. I don't know what the Big deal is about a chess player. Enlighten me. Americans don't use boards.Hell nobody in America can play chess. With their own minds person to person.And i am done no more comments from me.

[mapuc]

I'm speechless

This story seems to become more and more bizarre

For all of the scandals that have rocked the world of elite chess in recent years, rumors that a 19-year-old grandmaster used anal beads and artificial intelligence to beat the world's top player might be the most bizarre.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11211325/Did-chess-grandmaster-use-anal-beads-beat-world-No-1-Magnus-Carlsen-Bizarre-rumour-sweeps-sport.html

Markus

[Gorpet]

You just dont know when to stop. Reported.

So? did he use anal beads? ya know what It has been a while since i had a good laugh about nothing. thank you

[Aktungbby]

Well, You bring a 31 year old Norwegian man
to Saint Louis Mo USA. What did you expect? Between Southern female spread legs you lose your mind.And your future.LOL

I'm speechless

This story seems to become more and more bizarre



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11211325/Did-chess-grandmaster-use-anal-beads-beat-world-No-1-Magnus-Carlsen-Bizarre-rumour-sweeps-sport.html

Markus

So? did he use anal beads? ya know what It has been a while since i had a good laugh about nothing. thank you No doubt borrowed from a miscreant "Southern female leg spreader"!??:hmmm: Pardon me While I report myself!:O:

[Gorpet]

No doubt borrowed from a miscreant "Southern female leg spreader"!??:hmmm: Pardon me While I report myself!:O:

You put that up there what the hell are you looking for? Are you some how feeling less? I'm waiting.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/wjvVX3tN/adminwatch-2.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[Skybird]

Investigations are being started against Niemann. He should have cheated much more often than he admitted, over 100 times. The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes (with reference to the Walls Street Journal):
----------------------------
The scandal surrounding chess grandmaster Hans Niemann is widening: The American is alleged to have played incorrectly in more than 100 online games - also in tournaments in which prize money was at stake.

The controversial chess grandmaster Hans Niemann, whom World Champion Magnus Carlsen has openly accused of illegal methods, is alleged to have cheated in more than 100 online games. This is the result of an investigation report by the portal chess.com, reported by the "Wall Street Journal" (WSJ) on Tuesday. According to the report, the 19-year-old American is said to have cheated many times more often than on the two occasions as a 12- and 16-year-old, which he had admitted to himself most recently.

According to the WSJ, Niemann admitted to the allegations in the report and was banned for some time from the site, which is popular with both amateurs and chess grandmasters. According to the information, Niemann cheated most recently in 2020 and that too in tournaments where prize money was at stake.

Carlsen accuses his US rival of cheating: "I believe that Niemann has cheated - also recently - more than he has admitted publicly." The first incident between the two had occurred in early September. At the Sinquefield Cup in St. Louis, the superstar surprisingly lost to Niemann and withdrew from a tournament for the first time in his career. The 31-year-old Norwegian did not give any reasons at the time.

The chess scene interpreted Carlsen's withdrawal as an accusation of cheating against Niemann. The American admitted in an interview during the Sinquefield Cup that he had cheated twice as a teenager at the age of twelve and 16 in online games, but never in presence at the chess board.

According to the WSJ, the chess.com report makes no statement on whether Niemann also cheated in direct duels. However, it does suggest that Niemann's strongest performances merit further investigation based on the data.

The World Chess Federation had announced last week that it would set up a commission of enquiry.
-------------------------------

[Shady Bill]

I was surprised to hear about this also, but then not so much, because the reigning Norwegian champ has a tendency towards the dramatic and often appears unstable.

I used to be an avid correspondence chess player. I would buy the packs of cards from USCF...I think they even came pre-stamped in those days.

With the rise of the internet, and other modern perversions, sacred things like correspondence chess, and not cheating at chess, disappeared.

I started going to chess clubs and some of the parks around Cali in the late 90s, and the more I would lose, I would see my opponents rise up from the table before me, look at me with pride and declare how they were smarter than I. It's at that moment I would pity them most.

I never played chess again after that. I stick to games of chance. Godly things.

[Skybird]

Isn't that obvious? Carlsen seems not to be the problem here. Itr seems instead that he is right.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63140246


Now Chess.com has produced a 72-page investigation (https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report) <- LINK into Niemann's games on the site, which most of the world's top players compete on, including for cash prizes.

The site, which has banned Niemann for alleged cheating, claims it is likely he cheated as recently as 2020, including in prize money events and against highly-rated "well known" figures in the game.

[Skybird]

I was surprised to hear about this also, but then not so much, because the reigning Norwegian champ has a tendency towards the dramatic and often appears unstable.

I used to be an avid correspondence chess player. I would buy the packs of cards from USCF...I think they even came pre-stamped in those days.

With the rise of the internet, and other modern perversions, sacred things like correspondence chess, and not cheating at chess, disappeared.

I started going to chess clubs and some of the parks around Cali in the late 90s, and the more I would lose, I would see my opponents rise up from the table before me, look at me with pride and declare how they were smarter than I. It's at that moment I would pity them most.

I never played chess again after that. I stick to games of chance. Godly things.
I would argue that correspondence chess in professional manner is meant to use any tool of analysis, including computer and theory books, and that that is no cheating as long as one does not pose as somebody not using these anyalsis methods. Back in the days it was the reason why professional tournament players also turned for correspondence chess: to benefit from the deeper analsis work. For correspondence chess I qualify play via postcard (I did that), and emails (I did that also, until recently). Timewise, both methods made little difference in matches. At leats how I and my partners played. One email every 1-3 days or so.

Playing online live however, that is somethign different to me, and I do not see it as correspondence chess at all, and here I take it as cheating indeed if players do not play themselves, but use assistances, although there are match formats where it is explicitly allowed - but then everbyody lnows that peope do it, and so its fine.

What goes not is to use analysis helps of any kind, but claiming one does not. The cheat is in this lie.

It was nice to have the chess matches we had in the forum, over ten years ago. I used a chess GUI to create and post the diagrams illustrating the moves, but I never had any reason to assume that somebody participating was using a chess engine, nor did I.

Man, its so long ago. Many of us have had some good, some hot and some other times in this forum, hadn't we. :salute: Today, compared to my youth days when I played tournaments, I am a chess noob again. Its like shooting: a perishable skill. Rest, and you will rust.

[Shady Bill]

I would argue that correspondence chess in professional manner is meant to use any tool of analysis, including computer and theory books, and that that is no cheating as long as one does not pose as somebody not using these analysis methods.


Yea I agree. I played CC in the late 80s and very early 90s. I remember if I had a position that I wanted to analyze, it would often require me to ride my bicycle to my high school library.

You really couldn't run CC as it once was. You would just have a group of people using their 2800 rated chess apps on their phones to cheat. It has become so easy to analyze any chess position to the nth degree, that it is almost hard to know where "analysis" ends and "cheating" begins.

Interestingly enough, my chess correspondence hobby let me to start collecting stamps. I played with kids from Germany, The Netherlands, France...I would get all these little cards in the mail with the coolest, colorful stamps. European stamps always tended to contain more colors than American stamps.

..then they turned beautiful, lickable stamps into stickers..adults can't really collect stickers, so that ended that hobby.

[Shady Bill]

Isn't that obvious? Carlsen seems not to be the problem here. Itr seems instead that he is right.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63140246


I haven't really studied the case in great detail. I kind of thought it was Carlsen being upset a 19 year old player could suddenly beat him, and somehow he felt this was impossible and therefor it must mean Niemann is cheating. I guess that might be true. Just because the guy cheated as a kid (he still is a kid), doesn't mean he is cheating now.

Carlsen is someone who is very keen of attention. Even from a very young age, chess has been his entire identity. For him, to come to grips with being beaten by a 19 year old kid, it must challenge everything he knows and believes in. Because it shows that Niemann can do in years, what took Carlsen decades..and that must hurt.


What shocked me more was the guys who cheated so blatantly at the fishing competition: (they were stuffing Walleye with lead)


https://www.themeateater.com/fish/walleye/new-details-emerge-on-walleye-tournament-cheating-scandal

[Skybird]

I haven't really studied the case in great detail. I kind of thought it was Carlsen being upset a 19 year old player could suddenly beat him, and somehow he felt this was impossible and therefor it must mean Niemann is cheating. I guess that might be true. Just because the guy cheated as a kid (he still is a kid), doesn't mean he is cheating now.

Carlsen is someone who is very keen of attention. Even from a very young age, chess has been his entire identity. For him, to come to grips with being beaten by a 19 year old kid, it must challenge everything he knows and believes in. Because it shows that Niemann can do in years, what took Carlsen decades..and that must hurt.


What shocked me more was the guys who cheated so blatantly at the fishing competition: (they were stuffing Walleye with lead)


https://www.themeateater.com/fish/walleye/new-details-emerge-on-walleye-tournament-cheating-scandal
Actually Carlsen has said after his last title defence that he is losing interest of repeating endlessly a title, he claled it pointless after the x-th repetition, and he said he will not play another world championship but step down if not a certain player who he rates as strong enoughn to be a real challenge will qualify as challenger.

I too played CC at the late 80s and early 90s, I'm 55 now. I had a very strong fascination for the dedicated chess computers of that era, and I still feel strong love for these machines, their imperfection , the excitement their marketing created, their increasingly elaborated looks and designs. I knew them all, I played them all in warehouses and stores. Back then I had a Chess Challenger Voice, then a Mephisto II, then a Mephisto Exclusive with M-IV module and HG440 opening module. Still have them, and some ten years ago, 15 years, I bought second hand some other objects of my desires that back then neither me nor my parents could afford. It was a golden time and means plenty of very precious memories for me. On some days, when I am blue and my heart is heavy, I am very sad that those times are gone. I played in a club, and for the school team, in those two years we once won the championship of West Berlin schools, and were 2nd or 3rd in the other year. But I never liked the tournament play and the competition thing, I am just no man seeking such tournament competitions, its not my thing to compete, and so I dropped out and went exclusively into "lonesome" CC chess, which was my thing much more (I am a quite unsocial person), and I was damn good at it, I might say. The German CC Federation was (is still?) organised in four main leagues, and you must qualify to access the next higher one. I won the three lower leagues in three tournaments in a row, and then made it second place in my first master class tournament, which was my last, then went to university and had real life getting in the way, played no chess for ten years or more - and when I wanted to return I found that I was so completely out of it that I never got back into it. Too much forgotten, too much routine lost. Today, I play like an idiot again, and thus play almost no more at the live board, only CC - and there really take my time, and need to. Its too frustrating. My three private CC partners however all were dropped by Corona, international guys, knew two of them for over twenyt years, and the third for aroudn 15 years. Never met them, still felt the loss.

Until today I feel very, very sad of this loss rergarding chess skills gone, one of my biggest mistakes I ever made. I should not have allowed to let this happen. I let it slip away, and I was unabel to ever catch it back. And now its too late - its gone forever. Mind and especially memory simply is not what it used to be back then.

How much I hate it to get older. And that is no ironic joke. I mean it. Just losses, no compensations. Every other claim is a lie.

[Shady Bill]

I remember those days, and I remember those chess computers :) I remember wanting the Mephisto with the wooden chess board so bad, I could taste it, as a kid :yep:


It sounds like you were an excellent chess player. I think you are part right in that, it would be quite difficult to re-memorize all the opening lines to the 8-10th move. That having been said, someone who was as advanced in chess as you were, should be able to once again become a very strong player from a tactical and strategic standpoint.


What I did for about 2 years was assign specific study times to chess. I did most of this during Covid. I would sit down for 3-4 hours, 3x a week and purely focus on chess. I also bought Polgar's "Chess; 5334 Problems, Combinations and Games". It is very good indeed. I have read many chess books, only this one and Nunn's stand out.



What you learned as a child is still all preserved in your brain, you just forgot how to access the information.


I urge you to take up your old hobby again. You seem to really miss it.

[mapuc]

@ Shady and Skybird.

Reading your comment in this thread here gave me an idea.

Why don't you two play CC in the old fashion way-which mean using ordinary post service to send letter to each other.

I'm not an expert on CC So my idea is taken from a movie where one of the actor received a letter-He open it read it and walk over to the chess board where he move one of the thing on the chessboard(can't remember which colour or what it was) Later into the movie this actor wrote something on a piece of paper and send it to the other person(which you didn't know who this was)

Markus

[Skybird]

I remember those days, and I remember those chess computers :) I remember wanting the Mephisto with the wooden chess board so bad, I could taste it, as a kid :yep:


It sounds like you were an excellent chess player. I think you are part right in that, it would be quite difficult to re-memorize all the opening lines to the 8-10th move. That having been said, someone who was as advanced in chess as you were, should be able to once again become a very strong player from a tactical and strategic standpoint.


What I did for about 2 years was assign specific study times to chess. I did most of this during Covid. I would sit down for 3-4 hours, 3x a week and purely focus on chess. I also bought Polgar's "Chess; 5334 Problems, Combinations and Games". It is very good indeed. I have read many chess books, only this one and Nunn's stand out.

What you learned as a child is still all preserved in your brain, you just forgot how to access the information.

I urge you to take up your old hobby again. You seem to really miss it.
I'm 55, the mmeory fials me easier now than back then. Believe me, I tried to get back into it, ten years ago, 20 years ago.

Have you never read that if you are a mathematic scientists, you need to set found your career with brilian towkr results until your mid-30s at the latest? After that, you either have scored big - or you will most likely never no more. The brain simply does not play ball anymore.

Also, Chess is a perishable skill. Ten years and more a break and that in the 20s and early 30s - that is too long to get back into it in full.

Believe me, I tried. More than once. But lost the mojo, it seems. Main issue is the memory, it does not record and stpore as easy anymore as it did back then. I played blind chess simultaneously on four boards at one opportunity at the end of my schooltime! :D And won by narrow margin, without a loss. Today, I would have messe dup the psoitions after ten moves and one board. And only if I know the opening.

I also try to learn piano. I take three and four times as long for every lesson than young ones need, and I find it almost impossible to learn reading notes. :haha:

[Skybird]

@ Shady and Skybird.

Reading your comment in this thread here gave me an idea.

Why don't you two play CC in the old fashion way-which mean using ordinary post service to send letter to each other.

I'm not an expert on CC So my idea is taken from a movie where one of the actor received a letter-He open it read it and walk over to the chess board where he move one of the thing on the chessboard(can't remember which colour or what it was) Later into the movie this actor wrote something on a piece of paper and send it to the other person(which you didn't know who this was)

Markus
I did that until Covid, but with emails. One mail every couple of days. Works good.


Some ten or fifteen years ago we had many forum matches, with the diagrams posted into the forum and people commenting. Many of those old member names are gone. It was the golden time of the General Topics. Sometimes aggressive, and people fought often and loud, but so very much alive it was!

[Shady Bill]

I would gladly play online chess. If you set up a game on here, I will gladly play. Or you can send me your first move via personal message. If you want my first move, it is e4. One can not lose playing e4. This is why Bobby played e4!

Chess is freedom. When I sit down before the board, anything is possible. Chess is life. The pieces move more beautiful than any ballerina ever could.
My wife is often jealous of my love for chess, but I explained to her, she will never come close to chess. So either accept that, or don't.



Life is hard. So is chess.

[Skybird]

Is that a gauntlet I see lying in the sand?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/82867533_62d3dce4f8_m.jpg
So let there be war. Let the drums beat, the swords sharpen and the spears point, someone is standing outside the castle and has lost his glove. Let us help him search!

Lets agree on the rules. No computer engines, else it degenerates into a pure engine match, those damn things will eat you or me alive all too easily. Literature research is allowed if players wants to check it out, it already was back in the CC days. Personally I will restrict to a few surviving books on openings, maybe, I am no archivist maintaining the online databases of Chessbase.



However, if you don't mind, I will use the Chessbase Fritz GUI without active engine and without open window for statistical match information data to keep track of the match and to produce diagrams I post for illustrating the going to the audience. Chessbase simply has the best-looking GUI around, its a work of beauty. Already back then. Still today.


This is how we have run many such matches in this forum 12-15 years ago already, with many participants back then. Audience commented and joked, chatted about past events no longer valid for the actual position, but of course posted no aides or helpful tips.

Can we agree on this? The alternative would be that I use one of these old albums I still have - look what I have found, the protocoll: date 2008, Subsim match. 14 years ago! Man, time is fleeting.


https://i.postimg.cc/dVXWX178/CC-album.jpg (https://postimg.cc/G4FJTbx2)

[Skybird]

I found more, I almost forgot that I had shot these photos in 2006. Found them at Google Photos. This is my small collection of machines, one more, a Fidelity Avantgarde (!) with a rare and back then extremely expensive program (!) unfortunately is dysfunctional and in the basement, not on the pics.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3_Pg41S1E2GjjeKKS1KxKdjw94PfuC4SYisDGF9ll9RdCcVG6x wJqEFwdFF2xmuHC5Yowm7nvYQBQ2NMbPgvRcPBKJqKIlORQPOe gLwRQadA34XBIW-N1jSt_CiNPLVUN4PX5T3sdUHSRYpUGUaOVUO2P4P3QS-U-lQtwaWZiHB1zZw_XYk-3MOp3cVRGZ8qrRNJ8-F2kHGBW8G0vWDBA0x4TIyvKIe9hboVXYwVn-a2oWFLHLITLTGykKnLzPjbWv8YdhxDdRVK6VRb0ccuWG1Z_yz2-Es41fxtzcPC-m3_iWcC4HoeofYeGQUsxFjGvOQ2ktRiGSGxABx0OF8Z2Gjpxyf jW1T-jH5iknsZ6BAishPEHO2PmK-qmWHPqPP0I8u81JUAdRLimL9-G7dAOhzwq5KyOkVzVAt1vhpUT4Ux4BpA4DfvFchVBLLGT-X5P959QB2mGt-cvjH8rpabXeX2AzvwCIu0lJsSfTjIuEqW1u6Ntw_dl_1bbb4-r9uQ1Q9aYOghVg3DU6R23liV801uNv0CL6UeTJIy66xDeypFKX a9f7_ie-sRqrwwYqHKazYzXsOkh951hRo7oTr_JMouD5pnUl7WkeTFvJwT r0IX8iuxFrFr8bciLJnlIZUreoNX8DZ1qNkclnUVynz6XdjAC0 ypchG8MmFlUth02HqvfxLzoHgktyGQjmOg_k8FoezAHCjxyBZG gy2H33XGi19_Te6A6-3hxrz9tI4_6RN_ifrDz6UkjBBm6b5vrwDCdJDD72ljILQnd95D XHevFw1yQLpD8Lf5RcYZn0RJ6Fr9-jRV_XB9-Agjll1T9QKZOzFiWgVcQQXZLoCvG31MlbOaesfqiiFswNcX6Lr gFlh7cfOiaOIXJ4B_TQaamNWJprJKNFJZsgoOesRzlTFt5MThD VVh2sYlplt8IGvn=w1199-h899-no?authuser=0


https://i.postimg.cc/yd41rgCW/1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/R3dxW0Fz)



My first machine I ever got for christmas. The CC Voice.


https://i.postimg.cc/7YWyWGgD/2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/HVXKJLZP)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/R74n6TzPCd-NCwhi44zRtN2DjJk0zJ_8YDDPayBUznz2zJogrqpJlIiztSvrh RgORaRcHTAbO-OzhTL5HZn8BatUMExSgu1dmSiOrWYwkzjYnb6cEicsXxIaMmgE Df8Ea-9bHtbwhPGuTH88hBTCTAQ_EBCd81JYHVZuA0T4md3CeeIyTCgI u6u_C3F7t8zvAEUPoc2qY8nCJdcrF7YA_gw4-cvzslmt-wJISSBBgIyKWOXqFA0EV4Df75RWK-nNponlANp3hR9CWHJo6lIiqDWYbE-6Qexe9trFHEakMLkRlBSnFjRu6bpppkF2zmpgLXBoE1mDio6Zi 7O8-cRHxIQkNfzzUQ9eSG-AyLtIeOK0gL_NE2G_5uSNQrZJOScK-U7SX658J_xo0U_dwUl2oH6HbvxO4UMCwXqP9YOJ0B-X6WmQ_b75SJK46JCvWLGCCTCpOeHiy45npiwR6R8KkjmkVZaxx DxQuw-WUuCd4mZuTnlazokNycBZmkuuLkGFBO1Fr-KamUemD13hltx4t-GTmEH3a0YY5HeHRDVgJsk2aq9aJsdq068JYLefQKJ0RWPFH1QW RGVCAzeW0mD4RWwjAtsPMc5GOQvAs1fVSfq3ObLavWA0pUoS1X fI8cYN3hbcxEicWHsU9cEeWWfno8y56mfUXtiXx7jldfhQi5I_ 4IblO3eN41NI140y8Vo9VvkFzGBPjgaHqrMJr5qpnU_GzTYRE6 Xyp20Fn_d-RAKghz6-SMcn_z4TNn9ws3A1vTkuNpcG7HNtqyHJ5VEzI3JyRd4uTpjdaD eTYU05dCDANzYl-YFnBUzzMMWEQ3s3VnYGajgiYRwWiljmLQ4slrvLxZZkBQXy8eJ xKk28AqkVNjVF9lk9MnKkFIV01nMDGAsIj0aMD4eexp3nb1ZX8 BysXjT9yOgapE3EyCZU=w1199-h899-no?authuser=0

My second, two years later. Its the M-II.


https://i.postimg.cc/sfL6Fp0n/3.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WtM6gJVr)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dpHu55eAnqcfk6VI1tlussRne6ZQZUB5sLC_kyYNRVKaH-tgo9zUtEo9_n48Ohqf19wUzJQqhXtQVAYYrnuugBINX1gWoDie KtMenE1zwz-iZlbjJg_009eNUKOQnQeTyVoYxneuA4LXYI_Cl_4i4pWsS6Tpt ZDNz46pkg6O-12XLv1vaxwKtxCozPHc0jZ49na47g-pupCrCJCHRZk8TlR5Hart5dNlYTU9aE0-RsLykEndovtnQC2UpEJqSd0TgmwEXsAJuVMXxpdaOR2T6-89uwoD2ArAY-kAmJvyL0zvQav75LhPPz0NNPD9qIb_shij5pgUKa-DDkGv46xg5lcaxCva7JE-dMu4dkhFMUyMRD5_rLUrcfs8ianeDknfUH6MjaQKorS7k2Ykgf lkuoS_JyzrNSAo5cu4UpfrYJ3eK9RAf93UeZH5E-iYTDJOFWIbJOxQYNnk-aQBGAr6e39mD-mZqQoCRjC11k-RAr9XyAZ9R6nqODwsRMqvQjwDUZtiFZTlrp5PNHEGNoKIZHWDg aDMZ2Fn8xm1e5KOhwWPDktVfyGhTKCU5HgdMSzKuKpY5P3RlFB mWBfyN4sBbOBhJpYv0HYCk_-gQb6SWmvy3lCuG87kmRfzBB_wmfh0B-oqmqtHXpj8imjrX4zOmqo3CHn4r5F1FQYeGC5C-USgw9nqViCS_IVeZyJTnTyacU8-udUy8eoZFg65Eed5D8pNykCWMTwBap0KSxr7Si90LCcbVl93-5bYapU4sLZdNSSiDhLD1cJ5u9MZlSEuV3UGZwrCO3qk_iH93ye BTZvufR2RhVZ_KLn2ymrEMKRwW0ArSpSw0h1ssn4HTD1xJPVO6 dJZeN89OdM8EEDoOLrz_Aewh96jldWypvZ2eTPAvXPqLFUcTnk YoInAsUthi7xz64KOd-pdSMks3Kk2=w1199-h899-no?authuser=0

And my third from back then, a Mephisto Exclusive, square size 4 cm. The Munich model had 5cm. The cartreidges could be easily switched between computers. The coolest looking chess computer ever, imho.:


https://i.postimg.cc/5NHrjPCd/4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xc25435t)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1VCiLuKHQgt9FchXC3Dkr9Tzh8kRpfY9nD2flfBSuo4VVfNlOP CZNGrSSHwlBbD_lxvzsxX9UpBDm1Fi4vhabQoCm53Rtu6AkYuW fvlMVkOEhE9oIYc38S0itoRPD1yEDgwUPfW51CdaHiMXoqLJmx 3tl5Wd10h4V7XUoATC19r-rm1UAbhxZugwQ9f8y0UQgF-eX8KnPnagx0asIuKCUCwKMwpEi73jWwPXxdEZeLxe3DbuyrqvO IcKqUKyxItt6rBPFBbto4fyZGDrGcXAIXuKm5GfDcdjxGd8xna UNiL_Xp1rdeRj9Nn7Zq6rGbH0xprJcvo5h5JQ0b-ghNyzm7rbD1ZkMia-L2og-Z8mQDuzcBPam78a1TfAPZoIbv-58mD3nqgD3de6eFfEc9-0bykLSVd73lEdjOUZtnOryxSLB53eG8TrU675Kuxv9cqdUieRJ meGMXiGqlPOtwSvQ-C6gt3r8BZz3p5v5G4a2qpyUPzDDyKjzRR5Me257X5M5utL3Txa 5WozXRLN6GvSfLwTtIaBdmpdvWUEDGt16-emlQaNs8wBJwhy5-jMeOQXOjf2M4A4x5O-3nQdGgpXKKZRYpmCqKwUnSaqr8Pple6MOUDRSvV17hgWQEA9QR u9nYfslLsc1XawtyhtcQsjvYhqJA0ynHtrt1blm8Mb8PSUZWFA Dv7Lna9oR7uux2OysoHMqZeILZ-KfsKKtYXLTMiD0haR2srk_1nPnD1BTjr2VZsQbNg1yWt_r-0-wmGrLXZ5EkuxKjoNmXNYfKs0l_XYnZSHtNOS98t2HDRkogRRq6-gJBkL43lhxSvqVQku2yxyHe2yG3wI70660ZzDuyZ_pLV_KQqMg bnyQZO8IUKkWCfbsYS4uIa2o0Z9DO3H12OnelC5Hr42bAHfcKq YUH2T9TN9bJxl4Sx7ivy8=w1199-h899-no?authuser=0

The wood unfortunately has suffered in colour, the light wood became dark, the dark became light, and today its difficult to discriminate the two, th epic is 14 or 15 years old. Else, it still works tip-top fully functional. They all do. The images are from 2005 or so.

The Mephisto programs all can be had legally and free from Ed Schroeder'S website in emulated format so that you can run them on Windows without further software, even the GUI mimicks the hardware keys and display. LINK (https://rebel13.nl/rebel13/rebel%2013.html)Its strange to see the software calculating 16 half-moves ahead in 3 seconds this way while back then it would have lasted hours and hours and then more hours, if it ever would have reached that far (memory ran out easily). Hardware has come a long way since then...

Astonishing also is that back then everybody was assuming future hikes in playing strength of software would be driven exlcusively by hardware acceleration. Brute Force software appeared to be the thing of the future. For some time, it was. But today, the unbelievable playing strength indeed is driven by algorithm quality and celver assessment criteria and positional "knowledge", and not so much by speed - these programs are killers that even have grandmasters for breakfast, and run on small devices of relatively limited power, compared to fully equipped PCs or mainframes. The selectivity of Shannon-B code has led to a qulity in code that is good for what it is and is less depending on hardware speed alone. The latter was interesting mainly for creating endgame tablebase and such databases.

Today, many professionals would absolutely agree that computers have in parts rewritten theory, and have totally changed the style and playing between humans on the pro tournament level. Its a different chess, more economic, more brutal, less romantic and adventurous. I liked the old world much better. The human scale has been lost. There are calls for altering the starting positions of pieces to level the starting ground again. The theoretic knowledge today is so total and complete that it really does the game no good service, I think. At the pro level. Amateurs like us must not worry.

[mapuc]

@ Skybird and Bill

May I give you a proposal ?

This thread here is about possible cheats in Chess and an online game between you two should have its own thread. I was thinking on starting a thread-Then I came think of it-It should be either Skybird or Bill who create such a CC thread.

Markus

[Skybird]

@ Skybird and Bill

May I give you a proposal ?

This thread here is about possible cheats in Chess and an online game between you two should have its own thread. I was thinking on starting a thread-Then I came think of it-It should be either Skybird or Bill who create such a CC thread.

Markus
Be at ease, I will start a separate match thread like we had in the old days. ;)


In the end, its all chess. :D

[mapuc]

Be at ease, I will start a separate match thread like we had in the old days. ;)


In the end, its all chess. :D

I got carried away so to say.

If I could I would make it so that only you two could post in your chess thread.

I will follow your match with huge interest.

Markus

[Skybird]

I got carried away so to say.

If I could I would make it so that only you two could post in your chess thread.

I will follow your match with huge interest.

Markus
The commenting audience is okay as long as it does not give active tips and warnings to the players what they should play next. Commenting past events is fine, jokes as well, or disucssing moves long time b efore that are no longer actual. Its all fine. I admit my own jokes back then sometimes were a bit biting, and I still feel bad for that, I will be more self-restrained, and who knows, maybe Bill serves me my lower rear on a silver plate anyway. But then, I intend to give him a fight, and in CC of this format here I am MUCH better than at live table play. I can analyse on two boards if I wish, and take my time in general.



The match has started, btw. Separate thread.

[mapuc]

I thought I knew about chess rules and how you put a move into writing.

Like Bills e2-e4. Here I thought that you used the first letter in the piece you move like B(Bishop)e1-d2.

So I made a search and..and could not find anything about this..so I guess it's only the move you put into writing.

Markus

[Skybird]

I thought I knew about chess rules and how you put a move into writing.

Like Bills e2-e4. Here I thought that you used the first letter in the piece you move like B(Bishop)e1-d2.

So I made a search and..and could not find anything about this..so I guess it's only the move you put into writing.

Markus
Pawns do not get a marker. ;) Thats why it is e2-e4 instead of Pe2-e4. Even shorter is short notation where you mark only the target square: e2-e4 simply becomes e4, you add however the marker for the officer pieces. Rh1-h3 is the same like Rh3. Taking an opposing figure is indicated with using x or :, so is the + for chess. Bxe4 or Bc2xe4 is the same like Be4: or B:e4, or Bxe4 or Be4:


Books sometime suse little figurines instead of letters for marking pieces.


German and English maker differ due to the different names: Springer (S) is Knight (K), Läufer (L) is Bishop (B), Turm (T) is Rook (R), and Dame (D) is Queen (Q). König and King are obviously the same: K.


Correspondence chess with postcards had other notation, everything was (eh, still is) normatized to avoid any time-consuming confusions and errors. You see the board on this postcard.
https://www.schachversand-ullrich.de/media/image/07/e9/56/FS-Karte-I1.jpgHere the moves are just the squares' numbers. e2-e4 beocmes 5254, and Qg2xg7 checkmate would become simply 7277. Back at my playing time back then in germany the use of four-digit numerical stamps

https://shop.roemhild-buero.de/bilder/bildg/gh02057b.jpg
was needed also for reducing postal stamp costs, if there was no further message on such a CC card and no handwriting, then it was called a "Drucksache" and the stamps were cheaper than for postcard, instead of 40 Pfennig it was only 25 Pf, if I recall it correctly.


There is also another notation format, used by some godforsaken Yetis :O: in the anglosaxon world, Letum tried to convince me of it back in the forum matches 2008, but somehow I just did not get the logic behind it. Its also not internationally recognized or legitimized as a standard, more a regional thing, it seems.



And then there was Bobby Fisher. :LOL:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Fischer_Score_Card.jpg/1280px-Fischer_Score_Card.jpg

[mapuc]

Thank you Skybird for enlighten me.

Now the ball seems to be rolling

As Norwegian government broadcasting company NRK reports, the President of the Norwegian Chess Federation IM Joachim Birger Nilsen admitted he cheated online during the Pro Chess League played on chess.com in 2016/2017 season. Nilsen confessed he received outside help from a person who was hidden in the room while he played. “It was an assisted game where I received help during the game, and that is not allowed. You have to play alone, without help“, said Nilsen to NRK.

https://www.chessdom.com/president-of-the-norwegian-chess-federation-admits-he-cheated-on-chess-com/

Markus

[Skybird]

Did he step forward all by himself or was he proven to have cheated?


In live table chess events, I think the biggest danger lies in electronics and small computers, but the paranoia overshadowing the championshiop between Kortchnoj and Karpow and Fisher and Spasski are legend, too. X-rays. Remote control by hypnosis. Telepathy. Evertyhing dubious and esoteric enough at one point was mentioned to be a concern. :haha:

[Skybird]

Strange. In my post #29, the photos all had disappeared. The photos were shot by me, those are my machines and my table and carpet, no copyright infringement whatever, and over the afternoon they were there. I have reposted them again now. Technical server problem? Any policy violation I am not aware of? :06:

[mapuc]

Have this been done before on chess players

The 19-year-old was asked to turn around so security could wave the scanning device over his buttocks after he was previously accused of a cheating scandal involving the use of vibrating anal beads to receive messages from his coach.

https://www.comicsands.com/chessmaster-anal-beads-body-scanned-2658412469.html

Markus

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63338375


This promises to not stop being entertaining for quite some time to come! :yeah:

[Shady Bill]

Hans Niemann showed his mercy and compassion by only suing for 100 million American crowns. He deserves more for the smear campaign thrown his way by Carlsen.

Carlsen knows chess, like boxing, is a young man's game. And Niemann is a young man, and he is not.

It is much like "La petite mort" for Carlsen. That moment when you realize you no longer are on top. Your life course has shifted.

This is when greatest learning takes place.

[Rockstar]

I never realized we had so many brainy nerds here. Ya’ all bring a touch of class to this place. :up::O:

[Skybird]

He won the triple for the third time. No wonder he now feels a bit bored by chess. :D

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/31/sport/magnus-carlsen-triple-world-champion-chess-spt-intl/index.html

[Skybird]

Classical, Rapid, Blitz, Bullet, 960 explained.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/14/sport/chess-variants-explainer-spt-intl/index.html

I think in pro chess, 960 and Rapid are the way to go. The amount of theory available for the opening in classical chess and that on a pro level needs to be digested before every single match, is just insane.