Do you still ride a bike or do you already kwiggel?

[Skybird]

I am tempted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V5Nw_cXMbc

Made of specially hardened but flexible steel. Advertises with being made of the toughest and longest-lasting components and manufacturing standards of all globally produced bikes. Weight 8.5-11 kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds1_LdBsAJo

^ The inventor. Produced in Hannover, Germany, you must buy directly from him, that keeps the price low.

That thing can become FAST, over 30 km/h, with a steppinf requency and reistence comarbale to am ordinary bike. The brakes have been designed to trade distance for risk management, the braking distance is still within legal limits, but the brakes are limited so that you cannot fall frontally if braking top hard - cannot brake "too hard". Hill down they have exceeded speeds of 60 km/h. Normal everyday routine speeds are 20-25, with not more or less effort than on a normal bike, they say.

Price varies according to version: 1370 - 2050 Euros.

https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/

Smallest city solution I have seen so far, smaller even than Bromptons. It uses Schwalbe balloon tyres. They offer th choice for Rucksacks for it, 0, 3 and 6 speed gearboxes, wheel proteciton or not, luggage rack or not, trailer or not.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/i0LUDhn0sIs

In production since several years already. E-bike version in development (whether it makes sense due to the probably inevitable rise in weight, is something different...).

In practical use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX6lhZ_tgpI

[Skybird]

https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/home-kwiggle-vorteile
https://www.kwigglebike.com/web/image/52530-a699c70a/Fahrrad-aufrecht-fahren.png




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6xBibhn9Fw&list=TLGGXspByc6F744yNDA3MjAyMg&t=1s

Chain and sprocket are made of high-strength stainless steel with extremely high wear protection. This quality is worldwide top in the bicycle market.

Therefore, the chain and sprocket last 5 - 10 years under normal use, despite the few teeth, until they need to be replaced. (Quote from their website).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZURilKO2HVw

Quote from their website:

We have many customers who purchase the Kwiggle because of the specific physiological benefits and enjoy every mile in the upright riding position. The Kwiggle provides invaluable benefits for lower back and core muscle movement.

We ourselves also feel the great efficiency benefits of riding upright with high pedal pressure every day.

So yes, we see great potential in a Kwiggle with large wheels.

[mapuc]

I've seen a lot of similar bicycle here on our island-It's mostly German who use them-They pack them into almost nothing when they have to take the bus and then unpack this mini bicycle.

Myself does not have a bicycle I use my two-stroke rye bread engine or I take the bus.

Markus

[Skybird]

^ There are many folding bikes, but only one concept like the Kwiggle. Note that the anatomic position is very different from a normal bike, you more stand than sit on this, and bring more power into the pedals, while maintaining a straight back and relieved stress on all angles.

I have just placed my order. :yeah: With protectors, lights, luggage holders, and 3 speed gear, it will cost me around 1730 Euros if I keep it.

Chain and sprockets will last severla years they say, they are using notr greas eor oil ,m but some special ceramic powder-greas-something stuff. Its all made of hardened special steel, sprockets included.

Changing tyres and replacing rubbers on brakes can be done by any shop, if you want a complete "pit stop", you tell them, they send you a logistics label, you put it into a small box (mind you, the bike fits into a medium size suitcase and weighs 8.5-10.5 kg...), and some days later the parcel delivery service returns the serviced bike to you the same way. If you want, you can do all maintenance yourself, too, special screws and sprockets and such items you only have to order form them in advance, these ar items you will not gets anywhere else, they are specially made for the Kwiggels alone.

The steel is specially hardened, but yet flexibel. The weight limit they set is not due to the steel frame, but due to the very small tyres.


They do not sell in shops (but you can go to their base and get it there, in Hannover), and therefore allow customers to test-drive for two weeks or so - you can send it back if you do not like it. Its said that adaptation time to this new feeling is less than a week. They say they have a return rate of less than 3.5%. It seems customer feedback is overwhelmingly positive.

I am in, I will test it. When i found out I could even hang in my ordinary - and huge - bike bag, I "was surrendered". :D As comparison I have the Bromptons of my parents. I expect this to be better.



Why shouldn't I try this? I do not have a car, I dont need a car, I save the costs from owning a car. We have very good bike-friendly infrastructure, so why shouldn't I focus on bicylces? I will have a normal bike, an e-bike and the Kwiggle then, plus a flatbed trailer for the first two.

[Skybird]

From 2016, at that year the development had taken them 7 years.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_RLYP1Oqfk


Beat the time if you can! :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgR1u49Zh6c

[Rockstar]

That Kwiggle looks like a great bicycle but seems to me made specifically for transportation in the confines of a city after a bus or train takes you there.

The larger the wheel diameter, the further it can travel over one revolution of the wheel. To find that distance in inches, use this formula, as it will give you the circumference of the wheel: (from radius) C=2pi×r where r is half the diameter.

For a 26″ wheel, this would be 13″. Thus: C=2×3.1415×13. As a result, you would get C=6.283×13=81.68. For each revolution of a 26″ wheel, it will travel 81.68 inches. The wheels distance of travel will always be its circumference. Because of this, the larger a wheel is, the faster a vehicle may go for a given rpm. There are limits though, and drawbacks.

A larger wheel is harder to accelerate and resists axis changes more, which means they hinder steering. Also the larger the wheel, the easier it maintains speed, which can increase highway range. The larger wheel rolls over larger obstacles easier, making for a smoother ride and less energy lost overcoming the obstacle. - Owner at Mitchell's BikeWorks

Not saying one design is better than the other as each has their own pros and cons. What matters is that Kwiggle meets yours needs and most importantly that you have fun riding it. Any bicycle is better than no bicycle at all. It’s gets you out of the house and promotes good health. Well, as long as you don’t get run over by a big truck going down a hill with no brakes. :)

[Skybird]

Yes, it is heavily depending on smooth track surfaces such as tarmac, asphalt etc, it is not for MBT biking in the woods. And you must spend more caution on looking ahead and check small obstacles on the surface that a normal bike rider woudl not need to care for, but that is not different to the e-scooters that you now can lease in so many cities.


I expect in the beginning I will wag my tail like a walking duck when stand-riding this and get plenty of laughter. :)


The point is that you do not sit that much on it, but stand: not more than 50% of body weight should rest on the saddle, with normal bikes it is much more. Since you stand almost straight and upright, it is less your muscles pushing the pedals, but your own body weight: as if you ride a normal bike and at a hill lift from the saddle and "stand" in the paddles. Also, the dynamic swinging of the spine, back, shoulders, it is very different than on a normal bike, and more flexible, dynamical.

It is this altered movement pattern hat made me curious, and I imagine it can be great fun.

They claim that you can drive as fast with it as with a normal city or touring bike, speeds of up to 35 km/h they say are absolutely in reach of evberybody, and at hills you may find you reach the top like the others, and as fast: but much less exhausted and breathing not as heavy. The top speeds they measured, was around 60 km/h. Well, I am not eager to try that. Not at all. These days I start to feel alarmed when speeds start to scratch at the 40 km/h mark.



They also did long range multi-day tours and said it is absolutely capable to do that: and even less stressful to body and muscles.


They also claim their materials are such that the wear and tear on this is less than on other bikes, and there is less material degeneration in the chain, sprockets and so forth. Since the sprockets have so few teeth and thus are under big stress, that is surprising, but for the time being I trust their words.

I was thinking occasionally on getting a folding bike as a third bike, but never really "needed" it. This I get now only due to the very different movement body position and movement - I got curious.

And the lightest version weighs only 8.5 kg, although made of flexible special steel! :D The whole frame they say is designed to be a spring, being flexible, and very much so. The tyres limit the carry weight, not the frame. The frame is safe to not break at up to 250+ kg load. Its the tyres limiting it to something much less, 100 kg in total.

They work on a version with bigger tyres.

I will post when I got it. Could take 10-14 days, they say.

[August]

The only downside seems to be that one looks like an absolute dork riding it.

[Skybird]

https://robertisenberg.medium.com/behold-the-kwiggle-270de04339d3


Once Bettin was satisfied with his R&D, Kwiggle won widespread attention in a most 21st Century way — by crowdfunding. Kwiggle was a darling on Kickstarter and received a series of write ups in English-language websites, which mostly praised its unusual design and compact fold.
(...)
Today [August 2021, Skybird], Kwiggle is an established business, and it’s growing. Last year, a development bank in the Lower Saxony invested “a six-figure sum” in the company. Customers can freely order their own Kwiggle from the official website. Units can be delivered almost anywhere in the European Union, and they have gained a widespread continental following.
(...)
Up till now, units haven’t been widely available in the United States. My only exposure consists of JPGs and video clips on the Internet.


But that’s about to change. Bettin expects to enter the U.S. market this autumn [2021). To start, the company will ship its product directly from Germany. But it’s very possible that Kwiggle will open a brick-and-mortar store in a major American city, or even several. Other folding bike brands, like Brompton and Dahon, have flagship stores in (among other places) New York City. Bettin is interested in a distributor, or even a partnership. For now, it’s all up in the air.

I’m also fairly cynical about bicycling in my native country. I have ridden large chunks of Western Europe, including parts of the Rhine and Ruhr Rivers, across Belgium and the French campagne, and the experience is night and day. Europe isn’t a two-wheeled Utopia, but Europeans are — literally — miles ahead of Americans in terms of cycling culture. The Kwiggle would look eccentric anywhere, and it has yet to receive the glare of, say, a tattooed American contractor in a Ford pickup, who wants to share the road with exactly no one.
But the perception is rapidly changing. Small-wheeled bikes are everywhere now. Electric scooters zip down American sidewalks, moving every kind of person around with unironic ease. Many U.S. cities have a bike-share program, and where it exists, it is popular. If anything good can be said about COVID-19, it’s the exponential popularity of cycling. Bikes are more diverse than ever, and they’re better accepted every day. I myself own a recumbent bike; the most common response I get is, “Where did you get that?!”

I read around a bit about the company, and it seems they did a textbook jumpstart from day one on, they ran one of the most successfull kickstarter campaigns every, and grow rapidly even during Corona and logistics meltdown. I conclude - they have definetly hit a nerve.

[Skybird]

There are many strange and weird bicycles out there in this crazy world!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNVXSS81APg

[Jeff-Groves]

The only downside seems to be that one looks like an absolute dork riding it.
I'd expect that to be a major selling point in California.
:hmmm:

[Skybird]

Time is fleeting... Got the news today that they have been failed by their provider for the front wheel fork and that it will be another two weeks minimum before they get a new delivery...


I hoped to make use of this new toy much earlier, I should have been rolling by now since a few days already. Now I must hope to even drive it this summer.

[Skybird]

Wide grin... :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLPpwKuvlKs

[Jeff-Groves]

I can see that there is going to be a learning curve with that design.
It has the front wheel BEHIND the actual steering shaft.
Now what does that mean?

Any action to the steering handle is going to be exaggerated in a not to happy way!

Just had a friend that bought an E-Bike with the same set up.
At 18 MPH he took a spill and damned near killed him.
That set up for front wheel to steering geometry is just asking for trouble!

There is a well established reason Pedal Bikes and Motorcycles don't use that crazy design!

[Skybird]

We have a proverb in German: "Probieren geht über Studieren".

I am certain that after 8 years development and many prototypes they have tested what there was to be tested. Also, they are in production since some years now, and cannot feed the demand as quickly as orders come in.

Note, the bike is named (K)WIGGLE. The concept is to add a wanted unstability, that is countered by the swinging saddle, counter-balanced, and yes, the frame - both the saddle as well as the centre pole with the handgrips - DOES wiggle left and right with every step on the pedals, and the whole body, the spine and back that is, must swing as well. Look this short video again that I also had posted above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6xBibhn9Fw
He looks like a running waiter holding an invisible tablet in front of him. And he "walks" upright.


The view from his back. Looks like someobdy who is running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K_1cTKRp4w


The spine swings at all directions, the bottom goes left and right, up and down. Everything swings. No muscles in the back is allowed to not move and to not tense, cannot harden like you have left and right in your lower back when driving a bike for many hours . I do 7-11 hours tours on bike, I know what happens after so many hours - and I have a very good saddle and dampening. With such driving times, the material can be as good as it gets, you start to get problems with your bottom - and with your muscles in your back, left and right along the lower spine, and in the shoulders, and hands. You cannot avoid it.

You do not sit on Kwiggle as fixed as on a bike and you do not stand as motionless as on an e-scooter. You have ,much less wieght on your ahnds and shoulders. Everythign wiggles - and those who have made the experience say after adapting to it, which takes some kilometers, it is very stress-free, joyful, and far less exausting while driving as fast if not faster, than with an ordinary bike.


The man said he drove aroudn the Isselmeewr in Holand in one rush, 16 hours, nonstop - 300 km. More than half of the time in cold and against a harsh wind. He also managed a steep climb of 30 km in the Alpes, with a steepness of 13% , some famous track.


I imagine it is like with inline-skating. Have you done that? I have. Nothing in inline-skating is static or non-dynamic, everythign swings, your spine, your limbs, your body, arms, legs. You need to swing in order to skate well.

The video shows it quite well how the whole body swings in a way that you do not see with people on ordinary bikes. And then the speed , that is clearly in excess of the 25 km/h that my e-bike would support before switching off the motor . With a classic, non-electric touring/city bike, my average speed is 15-19 km/h or so. I saw that alrteady with the Bromptons of my parents, I tried them of course. And was amazed how fast you are on them, depsite the smaller wheels. Just terrible dampening, I would not like to ride these for hours and hours, the tyres are not fat (wide) enough f or such small size, me thinks. . ...

Everything in this Kwiggle bike looks counter-intuitive. It looks as if you must fail with it, and break every bone you have at first opportunity, still people are enthusiastic about it, the company is a great success, is expanding. All if's and cannot's, all reasons why it should not work becasue it cannot work mean little if one has not tried it for oneself.

The truth lies in the ride. :salute:

I'm looking forward to learn all about it. I am very confident. Will post about it. Thought by now I already would by now, but the logistics drama hits them as well.


P.S. Your note on the steering shaft. Note that you do not sit on this bike, but you "sit-stand". The steering handles are closer to your body than on a normal bike, too, and you are in a much more upright posiiton, you "stand" or better: you walk. There is not as much weight on the steering handles as if you would lean on them while sitting on a normal bike. Different to a normal bike, most of your body weight rests on your legs with this bike, not on the saddle/your bottom, and your arms/hands). The inventor somewhere says that he got the idea when watching race drivers at the tour de france, when they lift from the saddle and then stand in the pedals, but never for long before sitting again. They sprint this way, but cannot endure it for long time, and so the inventor thought about a way to enable the more powerful pedal push from standing - without the exhaustion he saw with the race drivers.

[mapuc]

I would say that this German proverb "Probieren geht über Studieren" Could be directly translated to "Practice makes perfect"

Markus

[Skybird]

I would say that this German proverb "Probieren geht über Studieren" Could be directly translated to "Practice makes perfect"

Markus
No, that would be "Übung macht den Meister".



The translator gives for "Probieren geht über Studieren" : "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

[Reece]

I still ride a bike, a BMW R1100RT!! :D

[Skybird]

I still ride a bike, a BMW R1100RT!! :D
Crocodile leather tires?

[mapuc]

I still ride a bike, a BMW R1100RT!! :D

Is your bike a:

Beautiful Mechanical Wonder
or a:
Barely Moving Wreck

Markus

[Reece]

It's in excellent condition, only 95,000 on the clock!! :yep: (serviced regularly)
One of those toys we take out only on beautiful days. :up:
Getting a tad old now (me) so might have to sell it!

Crocodile leather tires?

:har::har: Yes and rubber seats!! :D

[mapuc]

It's in excellent condition, only 95,000 on the clock!! :yep: (serviced regularly)
One of those toys we take out only on beautiful days. :up:
Getting a tad old now (me) so might have to sell it!



:har::har: Yes and rubber seats!! :D

Sound like your bike is a

Beautiful Mechanical Wonder

Keep it as long as you can or are able to hit the roads

Edit
Lets get back on track and discuss this wonder of a bicycle
End edit

Markus

[Reece]

:up: Yes you are correct, I would be interested in one or two of those kwiggle's but all dirt roads and the nearest town is 3/4hr away by car, so not practical here!
Back on track Skybird! :salute:

[Skybird]

Back on track Skybird! :salute:Naaah, not before two weeks from now on, probably longer. Steel has become rarer than in earlier times, and so those wheel forks are a problem. They will get them, but it takes time. Neighbours have recently been waiting for a certain trailer hitch - made and produced in Germany - for many weeks. Supply is lower than usual. It does not help , I assume that the hot weather and regional droughts also havew cause low water in our main rivers and channels. Freighters only move half-loaded, and in the forseeable future must stop completely on the Rhine, and others.


Will be fun for the charcoal transports, too, that they have increased again for the reactivated coal powerplants, that stuff moves by rail or waterways....

[Jeff-Groves]

I'd figure you for having an E-Bike.

I'm looking at an E-Bike myself.

[Reece]

I assume that the hot weather and regional droughts also have cause low water in our main rivers and channels. Freighters only move half-loaded, and in the forseeable future must stop completely on the Rhine, and others.


Will be fun for the charcoal transports, too, that they have increased again for the reactivated coal powerplants, that stuff moves by rail or waterways....
So far our rainfall for winter this year is/was very low, less than half the usual amount so the Murray River will be very low, dams aren't full yet and less than 1 month of winter left!! :timeout: Looking forward to the usual 40c+ temperatures and flies - NOT!! :doh:

[Skybird]

I'd figure you for having an E-Bike.

I'm looking at an E-Bike myself.
I have an ebike, 28", and a classic bike, also 28". The first for longer tracks and tours, the latter for city hopping and shopping. 2 batteries.

[Jeff-Groves]

Do you Solar charge the E-Bike?

[Skybird]

Do you Solar charge the E-Bike?
No, but if need be, I could. I have a prepper'S solar dream, a 2 kWh battery plus 3 x 200W solar panels.

[Jeff-Groves]

Cool. Looking at setting up a New Shed and planning to just do Solar with it.
Run 12 Volt lights so the Solar could cover that.

[Skybird]

And here it came today. :D


https://i.postimg.cc/wT3wXy4g/20220824-123952.jpg (https://postimg.cc/56d510MR)


The version I have weighs 10.1 kg. Folded it indeed fits into the packing box of 55x40x25cm (one pedal taken off and attached to a special spike on the frame). You can carry it folded, you can pull it like a suitcase trolly, you can carry it surprisingly easy and comfortably in fully unfolded condition. Unfolding I do in less than 20 seconds now, folding takes me 30-40 seconds, but I think I can loose another 10-20 seconds there. :)

The first practical impression was a deasaster, it even was horror just to mount that damn thing, the saddle is so high, and when you "sit" on it it provides zero stability, but swings your bottom left and right by 45°. The steering grabs are narrow and the hands are close to each other, so you wiggle in all three axis and cramp your hands around it in a desperate attempt to find stability, and there is none, and all the time your back swings
left and right like that of a duck on landwalk. Horror! :D

I managed my first slow and fearful circles, stumbled severla times, crashed gently. One must know and expect this and calculate this in: the first meeting with the Kwiggle is different than any bicycle thing you have ever tried, and it is no fun in the first 100 seconds, its drama.

I then started to drive in ovals and 8-patterns on the garage backyard (its a quesaiton of balance, the bike is inbcredibly agile and turns in closest of circles around manhole cover) , my fingers cramped around the steering handles, i razored the bushes, I shaved the dirt off the garage doors, in the first 5 minutes I tried to hit every possible obstacle there was just to prove that it can be hit, and all in all I have just given a pitiful and ridiculous sight. Thankfully, I was alone. Until a neighbour came, for his car, he saw me and burst into laughter. "Your bike seems broken!", he said. I then showed him what it is and folded it and showed him that small thing, too. He laughed no more. He suddenly was very interested.

I spend around 20 minutes driving racetrack patterns, ovals, 8s, did stop-and-goes. Then I got my bicycle gloves out of my garage (the sdteering grabs have rubber spikes I do not like that much, and then launched for the streets. Splash into he cold water.

I did not plan for much, I did part of the short tour I videoed last year, the first half of my jogging trail before turning for the woods. And then the switches flipped into other positions, and the rest all fell into its right places. All of a sudden, I got into the right rythm, and then things started to swing. And I mean that literally! It swings. No more cramps in my hands and fingers. No longer my body bowed forward, but was tall and upwards. That maybe was after the garage backyard practice plus 2 kilometers on the street. I relaxed. Started to trust the thing.

The trip for the close neighbourhood got extended for the nearby central garbage dump. And from there it got extended to around the Rieselfelder. And halfway through them I extended it further to the town of Greven, that is 16km away. And 16km back.

Fantastic experience! :yeah: :salute:

You know, it does not feel like driving a bike. It feels like - jogging, running. The bike frame constantly wiggles left to right, in rythm with your feet. You see that from race drivers when they stand up from the saddle and do a standing sprint in the pedals. Since you more stand then sit on this thing, your shoulders swing left and right and even more and back and fourth, like a runner. And since it is very flexible steel (you sit like on a mounted spring), you also swing in the vertical, up and down, like a runner intentionally accentuating the vertical movement. You swing in all directions. Really its more running than bike-riding. And you are fast despite the small wheels! I easily drive with the speeds of my normal classical bicycle - just that I do not get that tired and exhausted that much, do not breath that heavily, do not sweat that much. Its same and slightly faster speeds, less hardening in your back's muscles, and less effort. You feel like a miracle runner.

The downsides: the wheels are small, you have to look out carefully where you drive, holes in the ground and obstacles you would not care for on a normal bike, can make you crash if you slam into them unprepared. The dampening, despite the ballon tyres, is harder than on my other two bikes. The heavier your step (hills up), the more you wag your tail, like a duck, whereas in normal driving mode on level terrain, you lower back is almost stable and raises no attention. :). The concept of wanted instability (I call it the F-16 effect :D ) needs some time to get used to, in the beginning it causes "panic" LOL. The slower you drive, the more instable this bike becomes. Stopping and going at traffic lights definetly needs some adaption time, I would absolutely not recommend to take this bike and immediately jump into the dense traffic in the city centre. Practice first.

These all are factors that can be countered by training effects. You should calculate with some time needed to fully adapt.

But the driving/running experience is pure swing! :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

I absolutely recommend it. The thing is a hit. I totally porefer it to for exmaple a Brompton, its lighter, smaller, and nicier to run. Eh, drive.

I could read from the facial expressions of some people that they did not trust their eyes, however. :haha: Better drive with with a sense of humour and a healthy ego. Personally, already on the way back from Greven I did not care anymore, did not even realise it that much anymore.

I dont need this. But I want it. :up: Makes for a great change form my usual biking.


https://i.postimg.cc/m2M8pf45/20220824-124804.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jLxHC1LH)
(Steering bar is fully extended and that is too high, usually the handles are one handwidth above the saddle's height)


P.S. Due to the geometry, this thing has little weight on the front wheel already, so there is a certain risk of making an unwanted wheelie if you lift the front wheel to hop over an obstacle or rimstone, and then you fall backwards. The risk is real and one must be aware of it. At hillclimbs, lean forward a bit, before lifting the frontwheel, completely stand in the pedals, do not touch the saddle, then its safe. I dont say the bike is dangerous or unsafe, it isn'T, but these risks are - lets say they are accentuated compared to a normal bicycle.

I also tested the risk of dropping forward when breaking hard. I found it was not possible for me to get close to such a state. I estimate my top speed was around 27-30 km/h, and even when breaking as hard as possible, I felt nothing indicating that risk. The frontal break additionally is capped in effeciveness, again to counter this risk. This makes the breaking distance slightly longer than on a normal bike, but it still complies with the regulations and demands of the StVO. Means: the breaking distance still is within limits.

P.P.S. The bike comes folded and packed in a cardbox. Very clever poacking of theirs, the bike "hovered" in spanned rubber foil inside the box, the frame did not touch the cardbox walls. I have never seen such a box. Cleverly thought out.

[Skybird]

Its around a week with the Kwiggle, and every day since I got it I did a daily trip of 12-20 km, so by now I have experience with it and am quite used to it now.

Kwiggling is great! :yeah:

It is of paramount importance to experiment with the saddle positions, if it is not well-choosen, kwiggling can be very exhausting. Just two turns with the screw in or out make all the difference, and suddenly you drive with an average speed of 30 km/h and feel no tiredness at all, at least: less tiredness than on a normal bike. Correctly adjustign the saddle is absolutley important, and ignoring it, thinking such small changes cnanot make a difference is the biggest mistake you can make. Invest care and time on this one thing. It pays off tremendously.

Same is true for the height of the steering bar. It must match, and very well, then all will be good. If it is too high, it becomes exhausting again.

Driving is stable, I never, at no time, felt threatend or had a critical situation with falling backwards or forward when there was a hole in the ground or I had to brake. But you have to watch out, and anticipate the track surface and situations ahead. Carelessly dozing off and daydream while driving this, is no option here.

It feels a lot like jogging/running, as I said, or another comparison: riding a horse. Your bodyswing in the vertical is very similar.

I can unfold the bike in less than ten seconds now. Folding it takes me 20-25 seconds. Once the hands know by themselves where to grab and where to hold, its a thing of seconds.

If you are looking for a commuting solution, then look no further, this is probably the smallest and most comfortable solution you can currently find on the market. If you, like me, do not have the need for it, you may want it nevertheless, for me it is turning into a comfortable sports tool for low or moderate training intensity - after-training wellness already included, since you feel it while your ride, and do not need it afterwards anymore. ;)

Very, very happy customer. I full-heartly recommend this.

They ship practically worldwide, but seem to have opened business in the US as well:

https://momentummag.com/the-kwiggle-is-bringing-upright-cycling-to-america/

Do not worry for the shipping risk, the packing is very cleverly done, and good. I never would have had that idea by which they do it.

In Germany, and I assume elsewhere as well, they accept you to send the bike back if you do not like it after some days, since you cannot test it in a shop. They say they have a return rate of 3%, so of 100 customers, 97 seem to be happy with what they got.

The version with 3 gears, mudguards and lights, and a holder for bike panniers with certain connectors, costs around 1550 Euro. Considering the material and building quality and compared to other folding bikes, thats almost a steal. In Germany, delivery time is currently 3-6 weeks. A version with 6 gears is available, but its 2-3 cm thicker. An e-version is in development, but not fixed for a date due to the difficult economic circumstances.

Its a specialist and serves a niche, but in its niche it does what it does better than any other such bike, I dare say. Outstanding manufacturing and material quality, too. A reminder of that "German engineering" and "made in Germany" once had a meaning that was famous not for no reason. Well, the inventor is/was a machine building engineer.

I use average speeds of 25-30 km/h, and practically overtake all ordinary bicycle commuters. Acceleration phase is a bit longer and trickier than on a normal bike, but once you roll, things quickly turn into pure swing, and then you rush!



Not suitiable in the rough, for mountain biking, and such, You want plain and even track surfaces, the city and smooth road environment. Small stones and holes you find there, obstacles of 2-3cm in diameter, are no problem. Beyond that - be careful. Tyres are a limitaiton, they old out 100kg in total, of which 10kg are reserved for the bike. Driver and a small backpack/luggage must not exceed 90 kg. The frame itself would hold 250+ kg. The limit is set by the tyres, not the frame.
Super. :yeah: :yeah: :Kaleun_Applaud:

[Skybird]

I think an updated opinion is due.

I had nine months now with the Kwiggle, and probably around a thousand kilometers. During the 2, 3 coolest months I did not use it, since the cold temps corresponded with rainy weather and slippery underground, smear and grease fro wet leaves. That are conditions I do not feel so comfortable with the Kwiggle, because i now use such a high and elevated position for the saddle that when I need to stop at a white line or red traffic light, my stand is much more instable than with on a normal bike where I can easier connect to the ground with foot. Sometimes I jumpo off, its safer and easier. But you must not have your saddle this high, btw. I do it for the speed. And boy, this little speed demon in unbelievably fast and agile!

Surprisingly the Kwiggle has taken over a lot from my mechanical (non-electrical) bike with 28" wheels, if I must not transport a lot of stuff and do not go shopping, I now take the Kwiggle. To go in town from A to B, the Kwiggle is now my preferred choice - simply because I am faster than with the e-bike or the mechanical bike in the urban environment. Believe it or not, but its true.

In the first months I had the saddle a bit too low, still too low, I thought it already was high since it was higher than on my other bikes. The result is that the Kwiggle's unique design could not work to its full advantage, and I did not realise it, but I meanwhile learned that this way I wasted power, and speed. This spring, for some reason, I changed the position of the saddle, and put it closer to the steering bar and higher. The saddle now is one handwidth ABOVE my navel! Note that it swings up and down by maybe 10cm, however, its feather steel (stable to minimum 250 kg). The technical change was not dramatic to how it was before, but the felt difference it made could not be any more dramatic! I now indeed "drive-walk" in a fully upright posture, both legs and body are in a vertical straight line as if I were walking. My feet can fully push the pedal only when I fully stretch the legs. This has several consequences. You drive very relaxed, your leg muscles stay very relaxed and comfortable, rested. Because you must not use your muscle as much as on a n ormnal bike, it is the weight of your body that you just let drop onto the pedals. That increases your endurance, obviously. And increases the speed even further! The speeds I drive with this are isane, absolutely insane, in excess of 30km/h, and that I sometimes hit 35 km/h can happen and does happen every drive. (On my normal non electical bike I drive with 15-22, 23 km/h, usually) Why I know this so precisely?

The answer is surprising. I think I so far have not had a single ride where I have not been approached by people and got asked about it, sometimes even during driving. Even a full group of racing bike riders once encircled me in movement and asked me questions from all directions - while riding together at high speed. They were perplexed. THEY ALWAYS ARE :D Another biker once drove with me ho had a speedometer, from that opportunity I knew what speed I had at that time - thats why I know the maximum speed I can reach with this little thing (I also have good feeling for speeds in this range since my other two bikes both have speedometers). Today, this evening a service car suddenly was on my left side on a long empty road, the window went down and a - apparently ukrainian - man laughed and asked me about it and was totally perplexed and was fascinated and wanted to know everything about it. There were many occasions when I was approached and when the chemistry was right when i willed to demonstrate people the folding mechanism because I know they cannot find the bike in any shop. The reaction is always the same: perplexion, fascination and sort of disbelief (I can now fold the bike in less than 20 seconds, and unfold it in 5 seconds by throwing it into the air - the old and the young: you should see some of the faces! Mouth open, eyes wide. Its always the same.

I did not expect to use this thing this intensively, I saw it more as a freetime leasure toy, I was curious. But now I have it in regular routine use, and found my big "saddle bags" for the other bikes can be mounted on the front and do not block the light as I initially thought they would, its bigger bags.

A fantastic thing. The price is now between 15 and 17 hundred - and by that it is so much cheaper than other folding bikes, not to mention overpriced Bromptons. Direct sale from the manufacturer without intermediate traders - thats the secret. In a shop a Kwiggle would cost 800-1000 Euros more.

No technical problems, no loose chain, no visible wear and tear. The thing is more robust than my two other bikes, can you believe it! It still looks like new.

So after now nine months, my long time experience is overwhelmingly positive - even more so than last year after I bought it. To me it now feels like a natural extension of my body.

Negatives: you must think in advance about the route you drive, too rugged ground is a no go, cobble stone is not your friend, things like this. However, I drive this without problems on regular "civilised" forest paths made of condensed sand and fine gravel. The creator disocurages oyu to try steeper elevations than 10%, and I think 19% already is heafty with this. Starting to gia ns peed when laucnhign from standstill takes lyu longer, also if the wind is on your face you have disadvanbatges to normal hbnikes, since your upright body serves like a sail catching the wind. Going upwards at elevations I am slower than with a normal bike.

My summary is even more positive than it was last year: Kwiggle is a brilliant thing! And you are FAST. Racing bicycles and sports drivers you do not keep up with, of course, but more than 9 out of 10 city and touring bike drivers I overtake - with leaving a wind in their faces. :D You wouldnt believe the accoustic reactions I sometimes hear in my rear. From shoutings of disbelief, to something like hysterical giggling...


https://i.postimg.cc/FsZXZLtr/Unbenannt.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Skybird]

My parents have given up four of their six bicycles, due to age. Thats why I now also own a Brompton. Side by side comparison:

https://i.postimg.cc/YCD6h2Cb/20240310-155804.jpg (https://postimg.cc/XrFGPbFC)

https://i.postimg.cc/k4mB5LKT/20240310-160830.jpg (https://postimg.cc/v10QqqPn)

So I had time this last week to test Brompton more extensively than before.

I dont like the anatomical geometry of the Brompton that much, my back is bent like that of an angry cat, it feels like sitting on a racing bike, almost, and it causes pain in the lumbar region since the muscles are constantly overstretched there. I drive more relaxed and with much less effort and power on the Kwiggle - while being slightly faster than on the Brompton at highest speed I could go. Both bikes can go surprisingly fast.



On the Brompton, the driving is more forgiving regarding unevenness in the flooring, holes, stones, sticks. On the Kwiggle you have to be on your guard and scan the track ahead. Failing to do so can lead to desaster. Assuming you have smooth track surface and good road conditions, Kwiggling is joy, however, pure joy. Cobblestone is not. :)



On both bikes I feel safe and not in danger to fall, not during accelerating, not during breaking, not during turning. But the Kwiggle driving must be learned, you cannot lend this bike to somebody and this person than just uses it immediately like any other bike, it does not work this way.


Also, the pack bag Brompton offers is much smaller than the standard size bicycle bags I could mount on the front of the Kwiggle. Really, believe it. The Kwiggle mounts more luggage volume than the Brompton with the Brompton standard bag for the back mount. However, the limiting factor is the weight, the Brompton can mount luggage of more weight. Kwiggle is limited to 100kg: bike+driver+luggage<= 100kg. Its not due to the frame, that has a limit beyond 250kg, but its due to the air pressure in the tires, these are the critical factor, not the frame.

Its nice to have another backup, and for free ("dem geschenkten Gaul schaut man nicht ins Maul..."), but I prefer the Kwiggle, the driving must be newly learned, but then is superior.

[Aktungbby]

...Kwiggling one's Bromptons on line can be quite picturesque!:timeout::shucks:

[Skybird]

^ You wiggle only on a Kwiggle by design, but not on a Brompton, Bromptons roll surprisingly stable. :03: The Kwiggle is like an F-16 - the inherent instability in both is intentional and serves specific purposes. :) Without this instability both would not be what they are.

[Skybird]

New introduction video, in German, but very informative and very illustrative.
I love my Kwiggle, I use it more and more often. People cannot believe it when they see it, especially the enormous speed and agility. I reach a bit over 30 km/h in sprints, in normal driving around 25.

The negative thing is that you get constantly stopped and asked about it. :)


The thin man in the red-white striped pullover is the inventor, a former machine construction engineer. He quit his job to design the bike.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnC6VYMFTVE

[Shadowblade]

I ride rotoped now :)
dont have bike now.

[em2nought]

If only it exercised your kegel while you kwiggled. :D

[Shadowblade]

:D

well, my brother needed to get rid of it to have more space at home so I saved it & adopted it to have some physical activity especially for seasons with bad weather outside.

[Skybird]

For Germans: the company expands further, it now has a camp in Berlin, too, not just Hannover. Delivery and shipping is almost worldwide.

I had to send it in once, due to having done damage to the gears (my fault, not the material's), I handed in the parcel on a Saturday, and got it back on Friday next week, thats six days. Could happen in a bike shop as well if spare parts for repair must be ordered. Fast, relibale, good service. IOne must not be afraid that it is internet-buying only (except if you pick it up in Hannover or Berlin). It keeps the costs down, btw - and signficantly, else the thing would cost 800-1000 bucks more. The price now are 1450-1650, depending on what gear set you buy. If you dont live in hilly terrain, the 3 gears version is sufficient. There is a 6 gear version as well. The no gears version is being phased out.



Many parts of the Kwiggle, namely the gears, are patented proprietary items you cannot buy on shops, they are Kwiggle-excluive. Even the tyres are, they are a reinforced version of the version you can get it shops. Manfuctauring is in germany, Most parts are mad ein germany, some oarts in Italy, the st eel feather only is form China, since European and American manufacturers could not meed the inventor's specificaitons, he says. The frame and screws and strucurally relevant parts hold 370kg. The tyres alone is what limits weight to 100kg in total.

I woudk recommend to not use a Rucksack, but a bag on front of the kwiggle. Yes, it can mount ordinary bicycle bags with standardized mounts. Just that driver and luggage must not exceed 90kg (the bike is 10 kg).

For me its a sports bike, I use it for racing. Spu8nds as if I am ikdding? You better take me by my word.



Best folding bike in the world. Saying with two years of experience with it. And unbelievably comfortable!

[Skybird]

Wowh, he uses bags AND trolley. Not my thing, but I am impressed.

https://youtube.com/shorts/u5RsuYQQrFI?feature=shared

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Curses, I think my odds of having coal rolled in my face by some fat guy w/a tiny, tiny penis in his F150 would go up exponentially riding that vs a normal bike.

EDIT: also, bending over on the regular bike I think would feel better for my spine than "standing"

[Skybird]

EDIT: also, bending over on the regular bike I think would feel better for my spine than "standing"
This I know better, by experience.

If you have problems with your back and spine, try it, it is much better for the back right becaue it is more like wlakign than bendign your back on bike. You "stand/walk" upright.
Your torso muscles are constantly and gently tensed and relaxed due to the rhythmically swinging movement sequence, which you cannot have on a bike, it is simply not possible because of the curved body geometry, a cramp due to persistent tension in a muscle area, as it can occur on long rides on a bike with the result of sore neck muscles, headaches, and general back pain, can not occur on the Kwiggle. I can say this with two years of experience. Kwiggling is particularly easy on the back! It's more like running than cycling. Only faster than cycling, and at the same time less strenuous. After 20 km on the Kwiggle (!), I feel like I've been on a bike for 2-3 km, and it only took me roughly estimated 60-70% of the time it would have taken on a bike.

Its like "running on wheels". I should also point out the almost vertical bar(s) that mounts the saddle and swings to the sides, its feather steel, can be loaded with up to 380kg. It is EXTREMELY flexible, you swing constantly in all three axis of space and thus, you also swing vertically. Nothing you can get in springs and dampers on a conventional bike compares to this. You do not get shocks to the spine you need to absorb. You sit on a flexible steel feather. Your rythm goes up and down, and if you allow it: by 10 and even 15 cm. All this while you do not ebnd your back, but "stand" and "walk" upright - which is your natural body motion. ;)

Kwiggling is EXTREMELY GENTLE to your back...!!!


The one disadvantage is that you must learn it, you cannot hand this bike to somebody else and tell him "drive to the baker and get some bread", the person maybe will get quite desperate, you need a time of learning and adapting, but your first attempt can be a reason for 30 seconds of pure panic. :D But after that learning, then it is better than any bike there is. And I have a 28" trekking/touring bike, a 28" touring e-bike, and now also a Brompton, and I had in the past a racing bike and two crossbikes, and other 28" city bikes. I am fully qualified to compare. The experience is unique, and addictive. You will just hate to stop.

If it is no race bike that is rolling in front of me, I do overtake it - and very fast. 19 of 20 non-racing bikes ahead of me I turn into trophies, no matter their type. Its very, very rtare that somebody who doe snto sit on a racing bike, can keep up, not to say: driving away from me. On none of my other bikes I can get as fast as on the Kwiggle.

Add to all this the ridiculously small size if its folded together, and how quickly you fold and unfold. Seconds.

I do not exaggerate.

[Skybird]

The Kwiggle. The Trailer. The Rubberboat.



What a combo!


This guy travels via Kwiggle plus trailer, and has Bivouac equipment and a rubberboat on the trailer. The next day, after camnpiung at bnight, he sets up the rubberboat, packs trailer and kwiggle into it, and moves.


Kwiggle rules...! :yeah:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HQf71fMuIU


^ If you do not want to watch the whole video, the bike-trailer combo is nicely displayed at 00:12:55


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exL-FCqtEOQ


Unpackign the bnoat from 00:02:45 on. Never saw such a boat before, you store your luggage inside the air tanks! The zipper is water- and air-tight. And then that high performance (?) air pump!


Pretty much awesome equipment he has. Kwiggle is the most underrated bicycle in the world! :D


He mentions they have a new saddle, a wider one. I must check it out next.