German TDC

[Bubblehead1980]

Coming from the Us side of things in SH 4...


I play without map contacts most of the time and have a high hit rate. A lot of it has to do with 3D TDC and a functioning linked radar range unit in TMO, this permits realistic targeting.


Anyways, I have little to no experience in in UBoats but have jumped in. Running Dark Waters mod for SH 4. I know this is SH 3 but from videos watched there are similarities to U boat side of things and these forums are the center of expertise on U Boat sims, so asking here.



German TDC is well different....What is the function of where you can "lock" in info and it seems linked to the periscope/Uzo, but turn off to enter fire control data.


Is this a form of Position Keeper? I thought US TDC was only one with the PK. Info does not seem to update though, so dont thin a PK.




What is best method of ascertaining speed?


With map contacts off on US side, I take range/bearing readings, mark the map and time for 3 minutes...900 yards=9 kts.


I am still adjusting to using metric system lol but should time for 3 minutes 15 seconds for metric correct?


Any advice etc is greatly appreciated. I want to do manual with map contacts until I adjust to U Boats, then move on to running without map contacts.

[Rhodes]

http://www.tvre.org/en/torpedo-fire-control-system-on-german-u-boats


Great info about U-boat TDC.



In game, the is a button that we the turn of the auto-update (link form uzo/periscope) and can introduce the info. When turn back on, when turning the bearing, the AOB turn also, so updated.

Normally I use the 3m15s rule.

[Bubblehead1980]

http://www.tvre.org/en/torpedo-fire-control-system-on-german-u-boats


Great info about U-boat TDC.



In game, the is a button that we the turn of the auto-update (link form uzo/periscope) and can introduce the info. When turn back on, when turning the bearing, the AOB turn also, so updated.

Normally I use the 3m15s rule.


Excellent info! Thanks. :Kaleun_Salute:


3 minutes 15s it is. So they travel 900 meters, speed is 9 kts or do require some conversion? (sorry, metric just throws me off and I was certainly no math major lmao)

[Rhodes]

Excellent info! Thanks. :Kaleun_Salute:


3 minutes 15s it is. So they travel 900 meters, speed is 9 kts or do require some conversion? (sorry, metric just throws me off and I was certainly no math major lmao)


From my understanding, is similar. It's 9 kn. You can do 3.15 and multiply by 10 (according with a post a long saw) but the result would be 9000=9 knots.

Now I do not know if real life is done like this or just the game.

In sh3: 3m15s - gives me 900m, it's 9 kts.

Sh4: 3m - 900 yards its 9 kts. Yes? no? nim?



In sh3, we have a almost cheat/work around and use the weapons officer. I can use it to see what mistakes I did on my data. Normally my difficulty in both games is getting the speed of target right.

But, in sh3, on the surface I use the WO, since I think of him like my first watch officer (similar to the XO/first officer on US subs) and on U-boats, they were in charge of the surface attacks, gathering the info and reporting to person managing the TDC.

[derstosstrupp]

If you want to mimic historical procedures, the main methods of getting speed were:

1. Ausdampfen: this is matching course and speed at a distance, on the surface. Can be done in game even without map contacts by carefully watching the target and adjusting own course and speed until a) the bearing no longer changes and b) the target appears to stay at the same range. To be accurate, best to do it over 30 minutes. 10 can suffice. It is most accurate at AOBs near 90, or near zero. As a sidenote, this is as you know very similar to how the US TDC was used to refine target data - adjusting the computer til bearing and range matched. The Germans just did it with their boat. Disadvantage here being no ability to refine the data once done with Ausdampfen.

2. Koppeln: this is plotting based on exact bearings and estimated ranges. The real guys were able to accurately estimate range based on how much mast was showing over the horizon and could use a Peildiopter (a pelorus) to get accurate true bearings. Also can be done in game with adequate practice estimating ranges by eye.

3. Schätzung: plain old seaman’s eye estimation, but also could include the “fixed wire” method of estimating speed by timing how long it takes for the target to transit the vertical line. They estimated length for this purpose based on an estimate of tonnage. The real guys (same as the Americans) did not rely on or have good rec manual data.

Any questions on the German TDC I’m happy to answer. Tvre.org is great but has some small errors here and there (he didn’t have all the documentation we now do when he sadly passed).

To answer your question about the position keeper, the German TDC at least from 1940 and forward, in other words the model S3, had a functionality called Lage laufend. That took advantage of the fact that every degree of bearing change equals 1° of AOB change. The computer also had direct connection to the gyrocompass and so, when told to do so, the computer would take own course changes into account as well as bearing changes such that if you kept the optics on target, the AOB would be correct regardless of own maneuvers. So you could call it AOB tracking is what it had. And then to minimize errors caused by parallax, they would strive for a zero or near zero gyro angle shot and then roughly input the range. SH games do not implement the gyrocompass connection and so own course changes will not be taken into account.

This writeup I did explains the mixture we have:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2700875&postcount=209

[Bubblehead1980]

If you want to mimic historical procedures, the main methods of getting speed were:

1. Ausdampfen: this is matching course and speed at a distance, on the surface. Can be done in game even without map contacts by carefully watching the target and adjusting own course and speed until a) the bearing no longer changes and b) the target appears to stay at the same range. To be accurate, best to do it over 30 minutes. 10 can suffice. It is most accurate at AOBs near 90, or near zero. As a sidenote, this is as you know very similar to how the US TDC was used to refine target data - adjusting the computer til bearing and range matched. The Germans just did it with their boat. Disadvantage here being no ability to refine the data once done with Ausdampfen.

2. Koppeln: this is plotting based on exact bearings and estimated ranges. The real guys were able to accurately estimate range based on how much mast was showing over the horizon and could use a Peildiopter (a pelorus) to get accurate true bearings. Also can be done in game with adequate practice estimating ranges by eye.

3. Schätzung: plain old seaman’s eye estimation, but also could include the “fixed wire” method of estimating speed by timing how long it takes for the target to transit the vertical line. They estimated length for this purpose based on an estimate of tonnage. The real guys (same as the Americans) did not rely on or have good rec manual data.

Any questions on the German TDC I’m happy to answer. Tvre.org is great but has some small errors here and there (he didn’t have all the documentation we now do when he sadly passed).

To answer your question about the position keeper, the German TDC at least from mid 1941 and forward, in other words the model S3, had a functionality called Lage laufend. That took advantage of the fact that every degree of bearing change equals 1° of AOB change. The computer also had direct connection to the gyrocompass and so, when told to do so, the computer would take own course changes into account as well as bearing changes such that if you kept the optics on target, the AOB would be correct regardless of own maneuvers. So you could call it AOB tracking is what it had. And then to minimize errors caused by parallax, they would strive for a zero or near zero gyro angle shot and then roughly input the range. SH games do not implement the gyrocompass connection and so own course changes will not be taken into account.

This writeup I did explains the mixture we have:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2700875&postcount=209


Thank you for the detailed answer.:Kaleun_Salute:

I will post some questions soon.

[Bubblehead1980]

Started a real career finally...


Started in September 1939...

Sunk a Queen Elizabeth Battleship in two attacks over20+ hours...she was escorting a convoy with three destroyers.


On Second patrol now, have two merchants down by torpedoes, with three torpedoes left. I've had misses but also premature explosions and suspected deep runners.


I've had some misses though, which upon analysis are attributed to issue with proper final firing bearing. I've got the speed (metric system took time to adjust to for plotting) but the weakness is the final firing bearing with german TDC.

In the US TDC, you place the crosshairs on desired impact point, send final bearing to TDC and fire torpedo, send updated bearing, fire again and so forth or place on middle or target, send bearing. Wait for five seconds, fire, wait, fire. The TDC updates the bearing constantly, the advantage of the position keeper on US TDC.


With German TDC. What is the best way to fire on final bearing for accuracy? To lock in that final bearing.

[derstosstrupp]

Started a real career finally...


Started in September 1939...

Sunk a Queen Elizabeth Battleship in two attacks over20+ hours...she was escorting a convoy with three destroyers.


On Second patrol now, have two merchants down by torpedoes, with three torpedoes left. I've had misses but also premature explosions and suspected deep runners.


I've had some misses though, which upon analysis are attributed to issue with proper final firing bearing. I've got the speed (metric system took time to adjust to for plotting) but the weakness is the final firing bearing with german TDC.

In the US TDC, you place the crosshairs on desired impact point, send final bearing to TDC and fire torpedo, send updated bearing, fire again and so forth or place on middle or target, send bearing. Wait for five seconds, fire, wait, fire. The TDC updates the bearing constantly, the advantage of the position keeper on US TDC.


With German TDC. What is the best way to fire on final bearing for accuracy? To lock in that final bearing.

Center mass of the target. The biggest advantage of the German device over the American one was the direct transmission of the bearing from the optics to the computer. Remember the German device is not position-keeping - once you ascertain the AOB, you switch “on” the TDC to update, and from then on as you follow the target, the AOB updates as the bearing changes. This is a result though of you turning the optics. This made it so you didn’t have to shoot “im Durchwandern” (meaning placing the optics on the “shoot bearing” and waiting for the target to cross). You could follow the target with the optics, the computer’s bearing is tracking with the optics, and best case you fire when the gyro is low.

So in practice in game (different than in real life since SH TDC lacks functionality):
1. Gather your data using whatever method you prefer and note it down.
2. Once on your final attack course, set up the TDC with AOB and speed and the range you will likely fire at.
3. Switch TDC to start tracking.
4. Follow the target and watch the AOB develop, adjust as necessary.
5. Watch your gyro angle on the TDC and fire when the gyro is within 20 deg of your bow, aiming at desired impact point. Low gyro is not necessary but eliminates range as a decisive factor.

In real life (not relevant to game but if curious):
At any point, even before diving to approach, place optics on target, set AOB into the computer, switch follow switch on TDC to accept bearings from optics, and turn on the AOB motor. From now on, as long as the target maintains course, AOB need not be touched again - the computer will take all own course and target bearing changes into account to maintain the correct AOB. This was the major advantage of the S3 over the previous models.

[Bubblehead1980]

Center mass of the target. The biggest advantage of the German device over the American one was the direct transmission of the bearing from the optics to the computer. Remember the German device is not position-keeping - once you ascertain the AOB, you switch “on” the TDC to update, and from then on as you follow the target, the AOB updates as the bearing changes. This is a result though of you turning the optics. This made it so you didn’t have to shoot “im Durchwandern” (meaning placing the optics on the “shoot bearing” and waiting for the target to cross). You could follow the target with the optics, the computer’s bearing is tracking with the optics, and best case you fire when the gyro is low.

So in practice in game (different than in real life since SH TDC lacks functionality):
1. Gather your data using whatever method you prefer and note it down.
2. Once on your final attack course, set up the TDC with AOB and speed and the range you will likely fire at.
3. Switch TDC to start tracking.
4. Follow the target and watch the AOB develop, adjust as necessary.
5. Watch your gyro angle on the TDC and fire when the gyro is within 20 deg of your bow, aiming at desired impact point. Low gyro is not necessary but eliminates range as a decisive factor.

In real life (not relevant to game but if curious):
At any point, even before diving to approach, place optics on target, set AOB into the computer, switch follow switch on TDC to accept bearings from optics, and turn on the AOB motor. From now on, as long as the target maintains course, AOB need not be touched again - the computer will take all own course and target bearing changes into account to maintain the correct AOB. This was the major advantage of the S3 over the previous models.


Thanks for your response, I believe I understand lol. Thinking next patrol will have improved shooting.

The buttons on TDC I circled in the shots below...When "on" I noticed the periscope is "slaved" to the periscope cant input data, but when off, and can input data. After inputting data, you hit the button to be "on"?

Problem is when I do that it seems to foul the solution up.

This I believe is the source of my misses, esp on longer range shots or a maneuvering target who's bearing and angle is changing. On US side of things, I am quite skilled at hitting zigging targets, but having trouble with German side thus far. I sunk two ships by torpedo last patrol, a third by gunfire after my last bow torpedo missed astern, I believe due to bearing issue, I had the speed correct.


Also, with G7e electric torpedoes...best to fire with a lead correct? due to its slower 30 knot speed. With MK 18 electric torpedo on US side always aim just ahead of desired impact point so it will hit there.


https://i.postimg.cc/65MY6Z0X/tdbutton.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/L8hvJsCZ/tdcattackmap1.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Pisces]

The German TDC does take care of the lead for different speed torpedoes. No need to add a manual analog measure of lead by eye-estimation. But SH3 does have a bug of not updating the lead calculation when you switch to a tube with different speed setting. Like you have tube 1 with Type 1 Steam with fast setting 44 kts (3 settings: 30, 40, 44 kts). And tube 2 with Type 2 Electric (fixed) 30 kts. Tube 2 is selected and for whatever reason you decide to switch to tube 1. It will fire the type 1 torpedo with lead for 30 kts. As a work around you need to select a different speed for tube 1 (type 1 torpedo) and back to fast speed to reset the lead calculation by the TDC. Or make it a custom to always use the slow speeds and always make sure the type 1 torpedoes are set to slow.

[Pisces]

... I noticed the periscope is "enslaved" to the periscope cant input data,... Typo there? Periscope slaved to periscope. I'll leave it to Stosstrup to answer. He is better at this, and I am not familiar with this particular GUI mod.

[derstosstrupp]

The easiest way to do it in SH games is to calculate the AOB that corresponds to a particular bearing, place your optics there, set the AOB into the computer and then press that TDC button you have circled. Then at that point as long as the target does not maneuver, you don’t need to update AOB again. Remember though that you can’t change course either because the TDC will not take that into account in the game.

For example:
I parallel the target at maximum range and I determine its course as 000. I overhaul it until I am a decent distance ahead and I dive. I approach on course 270. Once the range is about 1000 to 1500 m I start setting up the computer for the attack. I push the “button” to allow me to input data. Since I am on a perpendicular course, I place my scope on bearing zero, set the AOB right 90, and then press the TDC’s “button” again. Now when I slew back onto the target, the AOB will be correct in the computer.

If you are not on perpendicular course, you can use the attack disc or whatever course finder you prefer, or simply math to figure out the AOB based on the bearing.

Formula is:
AOB = Own course + relative bearing - 180 - Target course
If answer is less than -180, add 360
If answer is greater than 180, subtract 360
If answer is negative, target’s bow is left

[Bubblehead1980]

Typo there? Periscope slaved to periscope. I'll leave it to Stosstrup to answer. He is better at this, and I am not familiar with this particular GUI mod.


Yes, typo.

[Bubblehead1980]

The easiest way to do it in SH games is to calculate the AOB that corresponds to a particular bearing, place your optics there, set the AOB into the computer and then press that TDC button you have circled. Then at that point as long as the target does not maneuver, you don’t need to update AOB again. Remember though that you can’t change course either because the TDC will not take that into account in the game.

For example:
I parallel the target at maximum range and I determine its course as 000. I overhaul it until I am a decent distance ahead and I dive. I approach on course 270. Once the range is about 1000 to 1500 m I start setting up the computer for the attack. I push the “button” to allow me to input data. Since I am on a perpendicular course, I place my scope on bearing zero, set the AOB right 90, and then press the TDC’s “button” again. Now when I slew back onto the target, the AOB will be correct in the computer.

If you are not on perpendicular course, you can use the attack disc or whatever course finder you prefer, or simply math to figure out the AOB based on the bearing.

Formula is:
AOB = Own course + relative bearing - 180 - Target course
If answer is less than -180, add 360
If answer is greater than 180, subtract 360
If answer is negative, target’s bow is left


My problem is not the data its operating the German TDC properly but believe may just have it figured out.

Thanks for the help:Kaleun_Salute:

[derstosstrupp]

My last post describes how to properly operate it but glad you’re sorted.

[Bubblehead1980]

My last post describes how to properly operate it but glad you’re sorted.



Yes, I have it figured out now. Got a hit no problem on a night surface attack. Thanks for your help.

Main issue was adjusting to the German TDC, it differences, combined with using metric system. Once you clarified things, was clear I was not operating TDC properly so final bearing at firing was usually off causing misses astern even though had correct speed.


Thanks again:Kaleun_Salute:

[derstosstrupp]

Yes, I have it figured out now. Got a hit no problem on a night surface attack. Thanks for your help.

Main issue was adjusting to the German TDC, it differences, combined with using metric system. Once you clarified things, was clear I was not operating TDC properly so final bearing at firing was usually off causing misses astern even though had correct speed.


Thanks again:Kaleun_Salute:

You are very welcome, glad to see you are enjoying the German side.

[Bubblehead1980]

You are very welcome, glad to see you are enjoying the German side.


I am enjoying it, a lot. Different set of challenges but enjoying it now have TDC figured out. I love the german torpedoes, one torpedo will take out most ships, sometimes fire two on larger ships for good measure. Although, torpedo problems early in war...duds, running deep, premature explosions such as on US side as well, although they mostly are solved earlier to some degree in summer 1940, but issues persisted for german torpedoes until 1942. I've been researching the "torpedokrise". I knew they had problems, but was not aware of the details, not discussed much unlike the US torpedo failures.

I am currently in April 1940, supporting the Norway invasion...first attack, perfect TDC set up from 2300 meters on surface at night. Fired one G7e which was a dud, then another, which was a dud's (did not have any of the G7a's loaded, those are in reserve). Ship seemed alerted after second hit, but lowered speed slightly, refined AOB and solution, turned the TDC on, fired 3, which hit. Ship sunk ten minutes later, 5022 ton merchant-British.

Looking forward to next few patrols as things ramp up in summer fall 1940 in north atlantic. Hoping to introduced some AI subs into the mod for wolfpack ops as I did in TMO, at some point.

[Bubblehead1980]

Thanks for all the answers and help with German TDC. I am on my 4th patrol in Type VIIB started June 1 1940, now July 5 1940. Just fired my last torpedo after long running battle with large convoy in western approaches. Four large tankers sunk, had one tanker and three merchants down prior to finding convoy after 34 days on patrol. All manual TDC and Only three misses, one of which I suspect of running deep. Others were due to target speed changes during torpedo run.



Dark Waters/OM mod SH 4.
100 difficulty...map contacts and external cam off.

[derstosstrupp]

Thanks for all the answers and help with German TDC. I am on my 4th patrol in Type VIIB started June 1 1940, now July 5 1940. Just fired my last torpedo after long running battle with large convoy in western approaches. Four large tankers sunk, had one tanker and three merchants down prior to finding convoy after 34 days on patrol. All manual TDC and Only three misses, one of which I suspect of running deep. Others were due to target speed changes during torpedo run.



Dark Waters/OM mod SH 4.
100 difficulty...map contacts and external cam off.

Great to hear! Yeah once you get the German TDC down it can be devastating.

The biggest advantage imo is the direct connection to the optics which allows you to slew onto a new target or aim point and fire quickly without resending any new bearings - ideal for convoys.

I think the biggest advantage the US device had was the ability to use the PK to actually determine the data. Put rough estimates of AOB and speed in and a skilled operator could adjust these values accordingly based on comparing observed and generated ranges and bearings and arrive at a workable solution in something like 3-4 observations. Germans on the other hand, once dived, had to rely on the data they gathered while surfaced, using seaman’s eye to determine if any data may have changed. They got crazy close to compensate.

[Bubblehead1980]

Great to hear! Yeah once you get the German TDC down it can be devastating.

The biggest advantage imo is the direct connection to the optics which allows you to slew onto a new target or aim point and fire quickly without resending any new bearings - ideal for convoys.

I think the biggest advantage the US device had was the ability to use the PK to actually determine the data. Put rough estimates of AOB and speed in and a skilled operator could adjust these values accordingly based on comparing observed and generated ranges and bearings and arrive at a workable solution in something like 3-4 observations. Germans on the other hand, once dived, had to rely on the data they gathered while surfaced, using seaman’s eye to determine if any data may have changed. They got crazy close to compensate.


I do like that aspect of the German TDC, can quickly switch targets within reason. I do miss the PK on US TDC though.


Yes, I tend to get quite close for my shots, but did that on US side as well. Typically 1000 yards submerged and 2000-2500 yards on surface depending.


I have the nights darkened so its possible to even get inside the convoys in Dark Waters mod now. Still perfecting it.


I know later in water it becomes difficult and often impossible to get in close and longer range shots are required. What is your advice on shooting a salvo or "fan" of torpedoes. I take it as select salvo, work solution on a "middle" target and set spread along the column, fire in salvo. How many degrees spread would suggest ? Ship lengths vary and but typically it looks like spacing of ships is usually 900 meters roughly.

[derstosstrupp]

Spreads are an interesting subject when it comes to games vs reality. There’s actually currently no U-boat simulation that gets the German spread correct. Whereas the Americans regarded their spread as covering generally the length of the target (which is what U-boat games also assume), the Germans thought of spreads as spreading torpedoes potentially multiple lengths of a target worth of dispersion. The Germans goal for a spread was to ensure one hit. If they intended to hit multiple torpedoes on one target they would fire what they called “multiple shots” (a “Mehrfachschuss”) simply just shifting the aim point and firing at different parts of the target.

In the game, if you look at the spread dial of the TDC, the game considers that the entire dispersion of the spread between the outermost torpedoes. In reality, that dial indicated the angle between each individual torpedo. So for instance if the spread dial read 3°, there would be 3° in between each individual torpedo, meaning that a spread of four would cover 9°. And given the German protocol of firing a spread only when the data is uncertain or the range is long, to hit one torpedo, that makes sense.

So now to translate that into game terms, if you want to mimic the German spread doctrine, don’t fire them if you plan on all eels hitting. In that instance, simply just shift fire on each subsequent shot. Only use spreads if you are very uncertain of your data or are at long range as somewhat of a Hail Mary.

And, spread them wide. To mimic how the real TDC worked and how the real gyro angle receiver set the gyro spindles, you can use your periscope to measure the angular length of what you are shooting at, and then multiply that by:
- 3 for a spread of 4
- 2 for a spread of 3
- 1 for a spread of 2
Set the result on the spread dial.

So like the example from before, if you can see that the target is about 3° wide so to speak in your periscope, and you want to shoot a spread of three, set 6° on the spread dial. It will send one torpedo where you aimed, one torpedo 3° left and one 3° right, greatly increasing the chance of one hit even on bad data.

As an aside, the German fire control system incorporated a spread angle calculator that took range, target length, and AOB into account to compute the spread angle that was transmitted to the gyro angle receiver. Prior to the model S3 this was a separate unit in the tower, and it was incorporated into the computer with the S3. The operator of the gyro angle receiver in the bow room matched the spread angle by hand (matched the pointers) and that set the gyros in the eels to the correct ratios. The spread was fired automatically by holding the firing lever down until the last eel left, at an interval of 2.5 seconds between eels, different than the US which fired each individually.

[Bubblehead1980]

Spreads are an interesting subject when it comes to games vs reality. There’s actually currently no U-boat simulation that gets the German spread correct. Whereas the Americans regarded their spread as covering generally the length of the target (which is what U-boat games also assume), the Germans thought of spreads as spreading torpedoes potentially multiple lengths of a target worth of dispersion. The Germans goal for a spread was to ensure one hit. If they intended to hit multiple torpedoes on one target they would fire what they called “multiple shots” (a “Mehrfachschuss”) simply just shifting the aim point and firing at different parts of the target.

In the game, if you look at the spread dial of the TDC, the game considers that the entire dispersion of the spread between the outermost torpedoes. In reality, that dial indicated the angle between each individual torpedo. So for instance if the spread dial read 3°, there would be 3° in between each individual torpedo, meaning that a spread of four would cover 9°. And given the German protocol of firing a spread only when the data is uncertain or the range is long, to hit one torpedo, that makes sense.

So now to translate that into game terms, if you want to mimic the German spread doctrine, don’t fire them if you plan on all eels hitting. In that instance, simply just shift fire on each subsequent shot. Only use spreads if you are very uncertain of your data or are at long range as somewhat of a Hail Mary.

And, spread them wide. To mimic how the real TDC worked and how the real gyro angle receiver set the gyro spindles, you can use your periscope to measure the angular length of what you are shooting at, and then multiply that by:
- 3 for a spread of 4
- 2 for a spread of 3
- 1 for a spread of 2
Set the result on the spread dial.

So like the example from before, if you can see that the target is about 3° wide so to speak in your periscope, and you want to shoot a spread of three, set 6° on the spread dial. It will send one torpedo where you aimed, one torpedo 3° left and one 3° right, greatly increasing the chance of one hit even on bad data.

As an aside, the German fire control system incorporated a spread angle calculator that took range, target length, and AOB into account to compute the spread angle that was transmitted to the gyro angle receiver. Prior to the model S3 this was a separate unit in the tower, and it was incorporated into the computer with the S3. The operator of the gyro angle receiver in the bow room matched the spread angle by hand (matched the pointers) and that set the gyros in the eels to the correct ratios. The spread was fired automatically by holding the firing lever down until the last eel left, at an interval of 2.5 seconds between eels, different than the US which fired each individually.
Thanks for the info. Appreciate all your answers :Kaleun_Salute:

Yes, I use the method of pointing where want torpedo (Constant Bearing I think its called on the US side) and using individual bearings for each torpedo. However, for long range shots this is not the best method. US TDC has the spread knob and adjust right up to firing but German TDC in the game can only use the spread knob when Salvo is selected and when the TDC input mod is off, so have to preset the spread.


However, single bearing method is not always best for longer range shots, which sure will have to do at some point...later in war for example or in a hail mary as mentioned. I tried once off Norway against Repulse Battlecruiser making high speed. I fired a spread of four from 4800 meters (close as I could get) with a 10 degree spread for a "fan" and got a hit, only her escorts saved her, preventing follow up. Love having the salvo option, figure as mentioned, later in war will come in handy when have to fire from longer ranges at convoys. I figure in a hail mary situation, aim for center and fire with a spread.


I successfully did this (Following real life example of USS Jack's attack on the Take Ichi Convoy in April 1944) with in TMO mod. With the 3D TDC and Radar (actual working surface radar linked to TDC) attacked the convoy I added representing the Take Ichi Convoy. 14 Transports and 13 escorts...screen was so heavy, much like the real USS Jack, could not get inside on surface at night for attack, nor inside for a decent submerged shot.

So like the Jack, I used the radar to get a bearing on ship in middle of convoy from about 7800 yards, set torpedoes to low power for long range, and fired six bow and then four stern. I used spread from 5-15 degrees....I got six out of ten hits...sunk four transports and a escort.


I've replicated it a few times. Obviously the U Boat's do not have the SJ radar capability of fleetboat but was just trying to figure out spread for average convoy . I've noticed nearly all spacing is 900 meters between ships. I have a idea but though I would check. Thanks again for th einfo.

[derstosstrupp]

The other thing to keep in mind is, by the time it becomes necessary to fire these types of blind shots into convoys, it is late enough where you have FAT and LUT technology, and so you may not necessarily be firing spreads. You could fire a number of those types of torpedoes into the convoy to increase your chances of a hit.

[Bubblehead1980]

The other thing to keep in mind is, by the time it becomes necessary to fire these types of blind shots into convoys, it is late enough where you have FAT and LUT technology, and so you may not necessarily be firing spreads. You could fire a number of those types of torpedoes into the convoy to increase your chances of a hit.


Ah yes, I will have questions when that time comes lol. Never used FAT or LUT in the sim.

[John Pancoast]

One time I was testing a FAT and the search loop was perfect to hit a large tanker in the middle of a convoy........................except it would turn 180 degrees for it's next loop literally a yard or two from the tanker!?!?
Hilarious watching in external view as it's search grid followed the tanker's course perfectly, loop after loop only to have the torpedo turn away from impact at the last second time and time again.:haha:
It finally ran out of energy and sank without hitting anything.

[Bubblehead1980]

One time I was testing a FAT and the search loop was perfect to hit a large tanker in the middle of a convoy........................except it would turn 180 degrees for it's next loop literally a yard or two from the tanker!?!?
Hilarious watching in external view as it's search grid followed the tanker's course perfectly, loop after loop only to have the torpedo turn away from impact at the last second time and time again.:haha:
It finally ran out of energy and sank without hitting anything.



:har:

[FUBAR295]

One time I was testing a FAT and the search loop was perfect to hit a large tanker in the middle of a convoy........................except it would turn 180 degrees for it's next loop literally a yard or two from the tanker!?!?
Hilarious watching in external view as it's search grid followed the tanker's course perfectly, loop after loop only to have the torpedo turn away from impact at the last second time and time again.:haha:
It finally ran out of energy and sank without hitting anything.

Pretty funny but a grrrrr moment anyway.:k_rofl:

Thanks for the chuckle.