View Full Version : Mass Shooting thread
Onkel Neal
06-02-22, 12:01 PM
I was gonna label this "US Mass Shooting thread" but in the rare instance that some other unfortunate country shares in this epidemic of radio wave madness (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2384380#post2384380), I'll leave that open. But remember, this isn't a competition. :06:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/us/tulsa-shooting-hospital.html
A man who underwent back surgery last month stormed a Tulsa, Okla., medical building on Wednesday and killed four people, including the doctor who performed the surgery, with two guns he had purchased in recent days, the authorities said. His weapons included an AR-15-style rifle he bought just hours before the killings.
Chief Wendell Franklin of the Tulsa police said officers arrived at the medical office building on the campus of Saint Francis Hospital just before 5 p.m., within minutes of the gunfire starting, and rushed toward the site of the shooting. Chief Franklin said they found four victims, including two doctors. The gunman, who the chief said fatally shot himself, had been carrying a letter saying he blamed his surgeon for continuing back pain and intended to kill him and anyone who got in the way.
The killings in Oklahoma were the latest in a series of mass shootings that have rattled the country in recent weeks. Eight days before the Tulsa attack, 19 students and two teachers were killed in an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas. Earlier in May, 10 people were killed in a racist attack at a supermarket in Buffalo. Those were just two of hundreds of mass shootings — defined as shootings in which four or more people are killed or injured — that have been recorded in the United States in 2022.
Aktungbby
06-02-22, 12:19 PM
defined as shootings in which four or more people are killed or injured — that have been recorded in the United States in 2022. Well then that would include the three ladies killed just up the road at the Yountville veterans Home.(2018) One of them was pregnant.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yountville_shooting A stand-off started at around 10:30 am when a gunman, later identified as Albert Wong, a 36-year-old U.S. Army veteran of the War in Afghanistan, entered the facility during a going away party.[7] The first 911 call of the incident was received around 10:20 am, and by 10:22 am the dispatcher had named Wong as the perpetrator and that he was armed with a semi-automatic weapon and large quantities of ammunition. Wong initially released veterans and other staff members, holding only Jennifer Gonzales Shushereba, a psychologist, Jennifer Golick and Christine Lobber, the clinical and executive directors of Pathway Home respectively.
Napa County deputies were some of the first to respond to the scene.At about 10 minutes after the initial 911 call[8] Wong exchanged gunfire with Napa County Sheriff's Department Senior Deputy Steve Lombardi and then retreated into The Pathway Home building. After the shootout there was no further contact with Wong or any of the hostages, although three hostage-negotiation teams were on site. At around 6:00 pm, after negotiators from several agencies failed to contact him, California Highway Patrol officers entered the room and found everyone in it shot to death. His cell phone was later discovered in his parked car.
Wong was found dead of a self-inflicted shotgun wound in the second-floor room where he had killed the three female staffers.[11] The Napa County Sheriff's Coroner determined that Shushereba was 26 weeks pregnant at the time of the incident and that her "unborn baby died due to lack of oxygenated blood caused by her mother's death."State Senator Bill Dodd reported that it was reasonable to believe that the three hostages were killed during or shortly after the initial exchange of gunfire with officers.:hmmm:
Ostfriese
06-02-22, 12:25 PM
I was gonna label this "US Mass Shooting thread" but in the rare instance that some other unfortunate country shares in this epidemic of radio wave madness (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2384380#post2384380), I'll leave that open. But remember, this isn't a competition. :06:
A rare instance indeed. You want an example? Switzerland, a nation with a heavily armed population for European standards (about 2.5 million guns among a population of about 9 million) has had five mass shootings...
... in the past 110 years.
Aktungbby
06-02-22, 12:30 PM
When the police arrived at the scene, they were met by survivors begging the officers to throw away their weapons, as they were afraid that the men in uniforms would again open fire on them.
During the attack, 69 people were killed, and of the 517 survivors, 66 were wounded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
Onkel Neal
06-03-22, 07:22 AM
2022, so far
Jan. 19, Baltimore: A man who worked for a gun violence reduction program was killed in an East Baltimore neighborhood, along with two others. A fourth person was injured.
Jan. 23, Milwaukee: Five men and a woman were found shot to death at a Park West neighborhood home. The police believe the attack targeted specific people.
Jan. 23, Inglewood, Calif.: The same day, a shooting at a birthday party killed four people, including two sisters, and wounded a fifth. The shooting was gang-related, the mayor said.
Jan. 29, St. Louis: A shooting near an intersection killed three young men and wounded a fourth. Police said they had no suspects.
Feb. 5, Corsicana and Frost, Texas: A 41-year-old man murdered his mother, his stepfather, his sons and the son of his ex-girlfriend in an overnight shooting. The man later fatally shot himself.
Feb. 28, Sacramento: A man shot dead his three daughters and their chaperone at a church during a court-approved visit. The children’s mother had a restraining order against the shooter, who killed himself.
March 12, Baltimore: A shooting in Northwest Baltimore killed three men in a car and wounded a fourth.
March 19, Fayetteville, N.C.: A Saturday night shootout in a hotel parking lot killed three people and wounded another three. The shooting may have been linked to a fight between motorcycle gangs.
March 19, Norfolk, Va.: Hours later, an argument outside a bar escalated into a shooting that killed three young bystanders. One of the victims was a 25-year-old newspaper reporter whose editor called her to cover the shooting, not realizing she had been killed.
April 3, Sacramento: At least five shooters fired more than 100 rounds a block from the State Capitol, killing six people — three men and three women — and wounding 12. The police described the shooting as gang-related.
April 20, Duluth, Minn.: A 29-year-old man who said he suffered from mental illness killed his aunt, uncle, two young cousins and their dog in their sleep. He later killed himself.
April 21, Mountain View, Ark.: A man killed his parents, another woman and her son at two homes half a mile apart in a rural community, the police say.
April 27, Biloxi, Miss.: A 32-year-old man killed the owner of the Broadway Inn Express motel and two employees in an argument over money. He fled to a neighboring town and fatally shot a fourth person. Police later found the gunman dead, barricaded inside a convenience store.
May 8, Clarkston, Ga.: Three people were shot to death and three others were wounded at a suburban Atlanta condo complex on a Sunday night.
May 14, Buffalo: An 18-year-old avowed white supremacist killed 10 people and wounded three more with an assault-style weapon in a live-streamed attack at a supermarket.
May 24, Uvalde, Texas: An 18-year-old gunman killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School.
May 27, Stanwood, Mich.: A 51-year-old man allegedly killed his wife and her three young children at a home in Mecosta County before shooting himself, police said. The man remains in critical condition.
June 1, Tulsa, Okla.: A gunman killed his back surgeon, another doctor, a receptionist and a visitor at a medical building. He then killed himself.
Ostfriese
06-05-22, 12:16 PM
At least 3 dead, 11 injured in shooting in Philadelphia (June 5th)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/05/us/philadelphia-shooting.html
Jimbuna
06-05-22, 12:36 PM
2022, so far
Jan. 19, Baltimore: A man who worked for a gun violence reduction program was killed in an East Baltimore neighborhood, along with two others. A fourth person was injured.
Jan. 23, Milwaukee: Five men and a woman were found shot to death at a Park West neighborhood home. The police believe the attack targeted specific people.
Jan. 23, Inglewood, Calif.: The same day, a shooting at a birthday party killed four people, including two sisters, and wounded a fifth. The shooting was gang-related, the mayor said.
Jan. 29, St. Louis: A shooting near an intersection killed three young men and wounded a fourth. Police said they had no suspects.
Feb. 5, Corsicana and Frost, Texas: A 41-year-old man murdered his mother, his stepfather, his sons and the son of his ex-girlfriend in an overnight shooting. The man later fatally shot himself.
Feb. 28, Sacramento: A man shot dead his three daughters and their chaperone at a church during a court-approved visit. The children’s mother had a restraining order against the shooter, who killed himself.
March 12, Baltimore: A shooting in Northwest Baltimore killed three men in a car and wounded a fourth.
March 19, Fayetteville, N.C.: A Saturday night shootout in a hotel parking lot killed three people and wounded another three. The shooting may have been linked to a fight between motorcycle gangs.
March 19, Norfolk, Va.: Hours later, an argument outside a bar escalated into a shooting that killed three young bystanders. One of the victims was a 25-year-old newspaper reporter whose editor called her to cover the shooting, not realizing she had been killed.
April 3, Sacramento: At least five shooters fired more than 100 rounds a block from the State Capitol, killing six people — three men and three women — and wounding 12. The police described the shooting as gang-related.
April 20, Duluth, Minn.: A 29-year-old man who said he suffered from mental illness killed his aunt, uncle, two young cousins and their dog in their sleep. He later killed himself.
April 21, Mountain View, Ark.: A man killed his parents, another woman and her son at two homes half a mile apart in a rural community, the police say.
April 27, Biloxi, Miss.: A 32-year-old man killed the owner of the Broadway Inn Express motel and two employees in an argument over money. He fled to a neighboring town and fatally shot a fourth person. Police later found the gunman dead, barricaded inside a convenience store.
May 8, Clarkston, Ga.: Three people were shot to death and three others were wounded at a suburban Atlanta condo complex on a Sunday night.
May 14, Buffalo: An 18-year-old avowed white supremacist killed 10 people and wounded three more with an assault-style weapon in a live-streamed attack at a supermarket.
May 24, Uvalde, Texas: An 18-year-old gunman killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School.
May 27, Stanwood, Mich.: A 51-year-old man allegedly killed his wife and her three young children at a home in Mecosta County before shooting himself, police said. The man remains in critical condition.
June 1, Tulsa, Okla.: A gunman killed his back surgeon, another doctor, a receptionist and a visitor at a medical building. He then killed himself.
That list makes for shocking reading Neal.
Onkel Neal
06-05-22, 06:02 PM
Yeah, something is wrong with people.
Jimbuna
06-06-22, 07:55 AM
Far too many in my estimation.
I'm asking myself why does these mass shooting happen mostly in USA.
Something is wrong with people..No something is wrong with their attitude towards weapons and life.
Markus
Onkel Neal
06-06-22, 08:56 AM
We had plenty of weapons 50 years ago when I was a kid. People just did not behave this way in such large numbers then.
We had plenty of weapons 50 years ago when I was a kid. People just did not behave this way in such large numbers then.
Exactly.
Another thing I would like to know is where this kid got the scratch for about 10 grand in firearms and ammo. Those rifles he bought were top of the line models and ammo ain't cheap these days, even in Texas. How does an 18 year old from a dirt poor family come up with that kind of green?
Onkel Neal
06-06-22, 06:17 PM
Yeah, exactly. How did he get that kind of money?
I guess he passed the background check, so that did nothing. Appears a lot of these crazies passed the background checks (https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-buffalo-supermarket-texas-new-york-aa259bc33a1d83c62a8923f0de187042) and purchased their weapons legally, yet I keep hearing we need "universal background checks". What gives?
Yeah, exactly. How did he get that kind of money?
I guess he passed the background check, so that did nothing. Appears a lot of these crazies passed the background checks (https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-buffalo-supermarket-texas-new-york-aa259bc33a1d83c62a8923f0de187042) and purchased their weapons legally, yet I keep hearing we need "universal background checks". What gives?
I think the true purpose of a ubc is to create a firearms registry. One would think so as to make it easier to come after them when they decide to outlaw them completely.
Rockstar
06-06-22, 07:41 PM
One of the reasons I suggest raising the purchase age to 21 is that it's my understanding juvenile criminal records are sealed and I don't think show up on background checks no matter how comprehensive they are.
One of the reasons I suggest raising the purchase age to 21 is that it's my understanding juvenile criminal records are sealed and I don't think show up on background checks no matter how comprehensive they are.
But a persons juvenile criminal records would still be sealed whether the applicant is 18 or 21 so I don't see your point.
Rockstar
06-07-22, 08:21 AM
True, a juvenile criminal history would remain sealed regardless of age. But in my world :) Since they are sealed I figure a background check at 21 ought to reveal something of whats been going on over the last three years in that persons life. Especially if they haven't changed their ways.
Yeah, something is wrong with people.
No the Folks who are really in control of this planet. Just need to release another virus, Only this time it will be 70/present death rate. Ya got monkey pox now give them time and they will get it right.
We had plenty of weapons 50 years ago when I was a kid. People just did not behave this way in such large numbers then.
Neal 50 yrs ago. In high school, Here in central florida we brought our 30.30 lever action hunting rifles to school they were in those racks in the back windows of our truck's.Or laying in the back floorboards of our car's.We were out at 2:30 pm and on our way.To our hunting stands or blinds. And i can tell you in 1974 when i was 16 yrs old nobody thought about shooting any of our fellow students or teachers for any reason. We were 6 years past the Indochina war and a lot of us lost fathers and uncle's, brothers and cousins.
I think it's a unique dynamic that people behave this way today. I will tell you this. I want my family and those that believe in a future for our and their families we must take whatever measures it takes. The best Political minds that have been elected have brought the world to this point. And they have brought nothing but War and misery.
The world's Politicians have shown us they haven't a clue.They they could not run a Donut shop on their own and not have it go out of business.
Do the people of this planet really need a Politician ?
It looks like the used car salesman figured out how to get off the lot.Go for the local vote, Go for the county vote, Go for the state vote and get to Washington here in America.I'm sure you can see the relation in your own country. Do we really need a Politician? Or would you rather have the business owners the people you buy your groceries and the products that your own country produces in charge?
And another thing when was the last time in your memory your country and it's leaders that you elected are showing the amount of your GNP. And a break down of where that money has been spent and how much has your country for your collective efforts received. And how will you as a citizen ever know if you could live better?
I will say this every single person in your tribe must contribute.It's not what your country can do for you. But what can you do for the country that you want to call home. And if you drop those standards, well you get war and misery. And this is why we have war and misery today.It's called Politician they and their families of course will never have to do without. Will they?
Onkel Neal
06-11-22, 01:45 PM
Hollywood is the wokest place on earth in every other area of social responsibility, but when it comes to the unbridled romanticization of gun violence – crickets.
Here's the best analysis I've come across, regarding violent movies (and games). Sure, people in Japan and Finland watch the same junk and do not turn in mass shooters. But they do not have the massive number of firearms in their country the US does. Now an argument could be made to get rid of the guns and keep the murder movies and shooter training programs, but to be realistic, I don't think the US will turn in all their firearms or follow restrictive gun laws.
I'm not saying there is a solution here, but the man makes a solid point.
https://youtu.be/Ebg2YnBj9II
Kptlt. Neuerburg
06-12-22, 02:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkuMLId8SqE
Onkel Neal
06-13-22, 05:55 PM
Hollywood Heavyweights Take a Stand Against Guns on Film After Bill Maher Criticism (https://www.thedailybeast.com/hollywood-heavyweights-take-a-stand-against-guns-on-film-after-bill-maher-criticism)
On Friday, Bill Maher attacked the hypocrisy of an industry that stands up for gun control laws while putting out movie after movie about men who pick up guns to enact revenge.
“They hate it when gun people say, ‘It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun,’ but they endlessly produce movies with that exact plot,” the comedian said on his show, firing off an endless list of films with the word “vengeance” in the title.
“When liberals scream, ‘Do something!’ after a mass shooting, why aren’t we also dealing with the fact that the average American kid sees 200,000 acts of violence on screens before the age of 18? And that according to the FBI, one of the warning signs of a potential school shooter is ‘a fascination with violence-filled entertainment,’” he added.
Nearly 200 writers, actors, and directors have signed a petition calling for Hollywood to “harness their power as culture makers” and reconsider how they portray gun use in film.
The petition, first reported by the newsletter The Ankler, urges the industry to limit scenes involving children and guns and to explicitly show characters locking their guns and putting them out of the reach of children.
It also asks creators to have “at least one conversation” during pre-production about narrative alternatives to firearm use. It doesn’t call for an outright ban on guns on screen.
So far, it's been signed by big names like Shonda Rhimes, Adam McKay, Judd Apatow, Amy Schumer, Mark Ruffalo, and Jimmy Kimmel. Other signatories include Ted Lasso co-creator Bill Lawrence and horror filmmaker Eli Roth, ironically known for his gruesome death scenes.
Skybird
06-13-22, 06:10 PM
^ :up:
"A Culture of violence." Oh, I already mentioned that argument several times? Sorry, I fall silent again.
I am not convinced of the arguments Hollywood names now make for "alternative story plots" and what else the quote listed, it soudns a bit like bollocks and the quote's value lies more in the correct diagnosis, not so much in prescribing the correct therapy. My recipe to try is different, and simpler. If you make a crime movie of a murder novel, then it makes no sense of coinsideirng "alenrmtive" plots to not have the murderous deed beign doen with a weapon. The quesiton is how explicitly it mus be depicted, and how often repeated. It might make sense to halve a half-naked love scene inba movie, or a shot under the shower, ther emnight be stories to eb told and films to be made where in the context and logic of the narration itamkes sense. The quesiton is hoe epclcitly it must be filmed, and how often a half naked girl under a shower must be visible in a single movie. In context of erotics this everybody seems to understand. But when it comes to violence in films, where in structure an principle the problem is the same - many people completely mentally block off.
So my recipe, much simpler, is simply this: not that much of all that anymore. Also other films, and elss esxcessive celebration of violence at ever opprutnity. The Battle of Waterloo as depicted in War And Peace is what it is: a battle in war, it make sno sense to delete the elements of war from it. But must every film be a war movie, must every book red be a war book, and must all daily attention in TV and media be focussed on violence and crime? If you focus only on one and the same thing, topic, content in culture, then you have no real culture, but you have a mental monoculture. What wonder then if your mental inner world lacks creativity, change...? What goes into the black box, comes out of the black box: Like in, so out.
Hollywood Heavyweights Take a Stand Against Guns on Film After Bill Maher Criticism (https://www.thedailybeast.com/hollywood-heavyweights-take-a-stand-against-guns-on-film-after-bill-maher-criticism)
The petition, first reported by the newsletter The Ankler, urges the industry to limit scenes involving children and guns and to explicitly show characters locking their guns and putting them out of the reach of children.
It also asks creators to have “at least one conversation” during pre-production about narrative alternatives to firearm use. It doesn’t call for an outright ban on guns on screen.
So John Wick unloads his still smoking gun after he uses it to mow down several hundred people. As he puts it in his gun safe, while retrieving another gun more suited to the next batch of folks he intends to take revenge upon, an innocent child asks him if a knife would have done a better job and John Wick replies that it would not have.
Standards are met. :yeah:
So John Wick unloads his still smoking gun after he uses it to mow down several hundred people. As he puts it in his gun safe, while retrieving another gun more suited to the next batch of folks he intends to take revenge upon, an innocent child asks him if a knife would have done a better job and John Wick replies that it would not have.
Standards are met. :yeah:
But, The child that knows how to use the knife. Could kill John Wick.
^ :up:
"A Culture of violence." Oh, I already mentioned that argument several times? Sorry, I fall silent again.
I am not convinced of the arguments Hollywood names now make for "alternative story plots" and what else the quote listed, it soudns a bit like bollocks and the quote's value lies more in the correct diagnosis, not so much in prescribing the correct therapy. My recipe to try is different, and simpler. If you make a crime movie of a murder novel, then it makes no sense of considering "alternative" plots to not have the murderous deed beign doen with a weapon. The quesiton is how explicitly it mus be depicted, and how often repeated. It might make sense to halve a half-naked love scene inba movie, or a shot under the shower, ther emnight be stories to eb told and films to be made where in the context and logic of the narration itamkes sense. The quesiton is hoe epclcitly it must be filmed, and how often a half naked girl under a shower must be visible in a single movie. In context of erotics this everybody seems to understand. But when it comes to violence in films, where in structure an principle the problem is the same - many people completely mentally block off.
So my recipe, much simpler, is simply this: not that much of all that anymore. Also other films, and elss esxcessive celebration of violence at ever opprutnity. The Battle of Waterloo as depicted in War And Peace is what it is: a battle in war, it make sno sense to delete the elements of war from it. But must every film be a war movie, must every book red be a war book, and must all daily attention in TV and media be focussed on violence and crime? If you focus only on one and the same thing, topic, content in culture, then you have no real culture, but you have a mental monoculture. What wonder then if your mental inner world lacks creativity, change...? What goes into the black box, comes out of the black box: Like in, so out.
Ok, So what do you want these day's ? The new world order is doing it's best to rewrite history, And all old folks like you just have to die and when your dead your mouth is shut forever. The past is the future. All of our great minds today have to live in the past why? Their,born in the purple in their minds.
Really they don't have the Education that is equal to the people that actually provide the services that keep them in their lovely Bubbles.
And if you don't believe it. Let's have a debate between the Politician and Joe Citizen, Let's just take the guy or gal who want's to start their own business.That runs into the Red Tape of The Purple. And Televise it.In less than 60 min you will see who you want to represent you.
Oh hell i side tracked ! Oh yes the movie industry . You've watched Johnny and Amber It is what it is. I can only hope the HVAC guy's Triple the cost of keeping the A/C going on in multiple Penthouses.
Buddahaid
06-16-22, 03:49 AM
Ok, So what do you want these day's ? The new world order is doing it's best to rewrite history, And all old folks like you just have to die and when your dead your mouth is shut forever...
And so what? The young inherit the Earth and will do what they think is best for them, not us old bastards, and we did the same to our parents.
And so what? The young inherit the Earth and will do what they think is best for them, not us old bastards, and we did the same to our parents.
Hey old dog, There's a hiccup here I started working at 18 put 45 yrs into paying into a future the Democrat promised me they would turn this country into a Land that was free of Communist.And any People on this planet who believed in Freedom and would abide by the laws of our country regardless of their religion were welcome. As long as they were willing to learn our language and bring a level of intelligence that would insure that they would not become a burden on our country were welcome. So let all of us old bastards who hung out together and looked like Bill and Hillary in our youth.Shot i'm not a President and even though the Chinese flu is tearing me down one lung at a time. I called the local party leaders they asked how old i was.Their response was The young inherit the Earth.
And you and i have never ever faced a foreign enemy on a battlefield ever did we Buddahaid?
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000008404798/alabama-church-shooting-vestavia-hills.html?smid=url-share
em2nought
06-18-22, 09:16 PM
And you and i have never ever faced a foreign enemy on a battlefield ever did we Buddahaid?
Turns out our worst enemy is of the domestic version. :03:
https://img.ifunny.co/images/ecc5c662d7f4baa159d7112ae5ff6f1e3d6efd8610562b00ac 385f3bbec2d380_1.jpg
Onkel Neal
06-20-22, 05:25 PM
Ain't that the truth.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cMj0-40h_m7Ucl17_nlHE4FNGxU=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23307442/1239082098.jpg
And a lot of us knew this exact thing was going to happen once the Dems got back into power. It's like going out in a fishing boat with a guy who can't sit still and has to get up and jump around all the time. You know you're going to get wet before you even leave the dock.
Skybird
06-21-22, 01:36 AM
Ain't that the truth.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cMj0-40h_m7Ucl17_nlHE4FNGxU=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23307442/1239082098.jpg
And a lot of us knew this exact thing was going to happen once the Dems got back into power. It's like going out in a fishing boat with a guy who can't sit still and has to get up and jump around all the time. You know you're going to get wet before you even leave the dock.
In how far is fuel price Bidens fault? Its high prices like these over here, too, even higher. Biden neither caused inflation himself alone, nor did he encourage Russia. Every nation helped inflation, everybody underestimated Russia, almost every nation in Europe and North America called for sanctions, and all demand high prices to push decarbonization. Biden even watered down a prohibition to insure Russian tankers so that Russian gas still can be traded tl the US. Without that the prices would already be even higher.
Ain't that the truth.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cMj0-40h_m7Ucl17_nlHE4FNGxU=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23307442/1239082098.jpg
And a lot of us knew this exact thing was going to happen once the Dems got back into power. It's like going out in a fishing boat with a guy who can't sit still and has to get up and jump around all the time. You know you're going to get wet before you even leave the dock.
Well Neal, 88 million plus , Want to be Minimalist, Until they have to live it.
In how far is fuel price Bidens fault? Its high prices like these over here, too, even higher. Biden neither caused inflation himself alone, nor did he encourage Russia. Every nation helped inflation, everybody underestimated Russia, almost every nation in Europe and North America called for sanctions, and all demand high prices to push decarbonization.
Sky , Its all about Putin, Now how many countries has the so called "Allies" put sanctions on and have been on since you were born? Hell i'm an American and from the day i was born in 1958. There were sanctions on Countries and it hasn't stopped.
Except for 1 country and this country will go down in the history books. As the Originator in the future as The first in collusion with America and Europe.The New World order.They created the first of the virus that will lay waste to the globe. So don't worry they are still fine tuning of this virus.It is an ongoing Scientific project.And as soon as the Allies can get it to the Battlefield by Drone. The new world order can defeat anyone against The Hive Mind. And Sky how would an old man like you survive in a country without mind control.Here in certain parts of The United States we will Resist.
Catfish
06-21-22, 02:49 AM
Russia is not to blame yet, because Putin still delivers the same amount of oil. The perspective is of course that it will maybe throttle it down towards fall.
And why not, Russia can now export more oil than ever to China, and it is even cheaper (there).
Putin has throttled down the gas taps for Europe a bit (gas is gaseous substance, not crude or fuel like they call liquid fuel in the US), but he did not throttle down or cut oil yet.
If western countries voluntarily stop importing oil like the UK or US, prices will of course rise.
But fuel prices are not climbing as bad as you see at the "gasoline" pumps because of stock market perspectives or Russia, responsible for the biggest part of this rise are the petroleum companies using Russia and this ohsobaad government as an excuse for sheer greed.
Screw. them.
re Gorpet nice to see that at least the russian disinformation and conspiracy seeders seem to have some impact, at least something in this world has to work :O:
Skybird
06-21-22, 05:36 AM
Sky , Its all about Putin, Now how many countries has the so called "Allies" put sanctions on and have been on since you were born? Hell i'm an American and from the day i was born in 1958. There were sanctions on Countries and it hasn't stopped.
Except for 1 country and this country will go down in the history books. As the Originator in the future as The first in collusion with America and Europe.The New World order.They created the first of the virus that will lay waste to the globe. So don't worry they are still fine tuning of this virus.It is an ongoing Scientific project.And as soon as the Allies can get it to the Battlefield by Drone. The new world order can defeat anyone against The Hive Mind. And Sky how would an old man like you survive in a country without mind control.Here in certain parts of The United States we will Resist.
The central banks will do nothing, because they can do nothing. They have shot their powder, and have tried to extinguish the fire with gasoline. The socialist stupid ECB, for the purpose of hidden illegal state financing, has increased its balance sheet total by a factor of 8 since the crisis symptom surge of the years 2007-2012. Factor 8...! The state quota in Europe is far over 50%. Nobody has learned anything from the years 2007-2012, nothing, nothing at all. I am sure the FED has just as much dirt on it.
The catastrophe we are in now has been prepared for a long time. We cannot escape it. There is no escape. Only buying some more time (that without doubt gets wasted) at the price of making the follow-on consequences even worse than they already are. Its scaring, you bet. A fool everybody who is not seriously concerned. We have all reason to be. And this ngihtmare will not be over in a couple of months. Inflation will turn two digits, and will stay for years. And it can turn, absolutely, into a hyperinflation.
Does anybody really seriously believe the stocks he owns and whose values have doubled, tripled in the past months and years, indicate the factory they belong to suddenly is three, four times more of value...? Houses, land? More likely it is that instead it indicates that the money has lost in value by according factors. ;) No wonder considering how much FIAT money was made out of nothing and pumped to the top of the food chain. The wealthy got wealthier, the ranks coming after them already have no benefit from these effects anymore. Its called Cantillon effect, its why states have monopolized paper money and created central banks as their henchmen - they never were really independent, even if that is claimed, its a lie, - and it plunders the lower social ranks and shifts their smaller wealth and belongings to those at the top of the wealth hierarchy.
In the comign years, many will economically kick the bucket. And there is nothing that can really be done about that. Because things are completely out of control now.
Now begins the spiral of prices and wages. That will be fun! Of course more voter-bribery packages will be packe,d amkign things even worse again, and a creating ever more debts, but it will be in vein.
Once the pressure in the cooker is too high, you even cannot turn the lid and take it up again, that tight it is then. All you can do is taking full cover and pray that when it explodes you will get away with injuries you can survive. No means guarantee safety. Not gold, not stocks, not land, not house owning, nothing the state can plunder evertyhing, cna get you always if it really is after you, and history shows that it has indeed and will plunder again at will.
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?
Buddahaid
06-21-22, 08:04 PM
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?
Blaming the president for all things is a national pastime. Meanwhile Texas republicans try to outdo the Nazis....
Blaming the president for all things is a national pastime. Meanwhile Texas republicans try to outdo the Nazis....
Really, the Nazis? Have they started rounding up Jews or something?
Rockstar
06-21-22, 09:33 PM
Really, the Nazis? Have they started rounding up Jews or something?
It’s just what Democrat, liberal, left wingers do. If they don’t have an answer or a plan or something intelligent to say, they call you a Nazi.
example @5:24
https://youtu.be/BVzj8QPZ534
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
Buddahaid
06-21-22, 11:10 PM
I'm referring to the RNC idiot harassing Crenshaw. Give him a brown shirt and a red armband.
Rockstar
06-21-22, 11:44 PM
Meanwhile Texas republicans try to outdo the Nazis....
“Rep. Dan Crenshaw and his staff were violently confronted at (NOT BY) the Republican Party of Texas convention a short time ago, when far-right social media activist Alex Stein and others whom witnesses described as Proud Boys.”
“Meanwhile TEXAS REPUBLICANS” = Alex Stein? :haha:
please name the witnesses otherwise it’s just another democrat conspiracy theory.
Ostfriese
06-21-22, 11:50 PM
Argumentations among Americans (not just politicians) these days seem to be a simple "we against them", with arguments reduced to "it's their fault" and the population at each others' throats, while the richest 1% fleece the rest of the nation relentlessly and a minority of christian fundamentalists dominates the reshaping of society which already produces far more losers than it can handle.
Quite obviously this occasionally creates preople who go on rampage, but it's seemingly never treated seriously for more than a few days of the usual round of arguments ("their fault" "no, their fault" "guns" "no guns" "thoughts and prayers" "we can't do anything") before fading out in the similarily usual "nothing" that is actually done. In the end everyone waits for the next shooting, hoping it won't be his/her kids' and relatives' names being listed on the NY Times front page for the entire world to see.
u crank
06-22-22, 06:08 AM
...and a minority of christian fundamentalists dominates the reshaping of society..
No. In fact it is just the opposite. It is the progressive left that is doing this.
Ostfriese
06-22-22, 06:48 AM
No. In fact it is just the opposite. It is the progressive left that is doing this.
Oh, really? Atni-Abortionist-Campaign, banning of books from libraries, promoting creationism and forcing kids to learn that in schools comes from the progresive left?
As I said: "it's their fault" beyond reason.
Catfish
06-22-22, 07:13 AM
Argumentations among Americans (not just politicians) these days seem to be a simple "we against them", with arguments reduced to "it's their fault" and the population at each others' throats, [...].
No. In fact it is just the opposite. It is the progressive left that is doing this.
:hmmm:
Still i do not think that Trump and his republicans are the "progressive left".
@ucrank: What exactly do YOU think the reshaping of society is?
u crank
06-22-22, 08:01 AM
@ucrank: What exactly do YOU think the reshaping of society is?
That's a pretty broad question but ok. The 'reshaping of society' would be the attempt to change long held beliefs and norms to advance a political and social agenda. Sometimes this is a good thing but if that attempt is based on an inaccurate assumption, society as a whole will be adversely affected. A glaring example of this is the current debate about sexual identity and gender. What does the progressive left believe? Without going into it you can say that these beliefs are not based on science or reality. Yet if you believe it and are promoting it then yes, that is an attempt to 'reshape society' and that is what the progressive left is doing.
Ostfriese
06-22-22, 10:06 AM
That's a pretty broad question but ok. The 'reshaping of society' would be the attempt to change long held beliefs and norms to advance a political and social agenda. Sometimes this is a good thing but if that attempt is based on an inaccurate assumption, society as a whole will be adversely affected.
A inaccurate assumption like "everyone benefits from capitalism"?
A glaring example of this is the current debate about sexual identity and gender.
One of the main (far) right talking points. Something that in the end doesn't affect them at all, something that they neiter do understand nor try to understand nor want to understand.
What does it say about a society if it forces its people to live unhappy lives or hide their true selves?
Without going into it you can say that these beliefs are not based on science or reality.
Like religion?
Ostfriese
06-22-22, 10:11 AM
:hmmm:
Still i do not think that Trump and his republicans are the "progressive left".
From our European perspective the US doesn't even have anything that's truly left.
u crank
06-22-22, 12:06 PM
One of the main (far) right talking points. Something that in the end doesn't affect them at all, something that they neither do understand nor try to understand nor want to understand.
This is untrue on all points. How could it not effect them and society as a whole if it is based on unscientific assumptions? And if these unscientific beliefs are taught to children how could that be good? I'll go on record here and say that what you or anyone else believes about sex and gender is your business. I could care less until that moment when I am ask to believe and accept something I know is not true. I wouldn't do that to you or anyone else. Don't do it to me.
What does it say about a society if it forces its people to live unhappy lives or hide their true selves?
Although the are some people who might want that, it is not true for society in general. By far most people have understanding and acceptance.
I think the real question is what what kind of society would we have if we accept and believe certain things which go against basic science and common sense. Where will this lead? The problem with progressive/lefties is that they want to bend the will of others to accept trans ideology regardless of the arguments against it. There should be a middle ground here but don't ask a progressive what that is.
Like religion?
You'll get no argument about that from me.
u crank
06-22-22, 12:07 PM
From our European perspective the US doesn't even have anything that's truly left.
I'm starting to question your knowledge about America.
I'm starting to question your knowledge about America.
Then count me in-'cause this is what I've been told/learned too-that USA does not really have a far left, a far left who has something to say.
Markus
Then count me in-'cause this is what I've been told/learned too-that USA does not really have a far left, a far left who has something to say.
Markus
What would be considered "far left" to you Markus?
What would be considered "far left" to you Markus?
Communism, Leninist, Stalinist.
While the soft version of left wing is socialism.
Markus
Communism, Leninist, Stalinist.
While the soft version of left wing is socialism.
Markus
We got all of those types here too although some may call themselves just Socialists.
And now you got me wondering, just who are the Stalinists in your government?
We got all of those types here too although some may call themselves just Socialists.
And now you got me wondering, just who are the Stalinists in your government?
You asked me what I consider being far left and for me it is Communism, Leninist, and Stalinist.
We have a Party in Denmark who is almost far left-United List. They are one of the parties who support the government.
Our government is a socialist government but they are more right than left.
The only Politician I know who's socialist in USA is...now I forgot his name he was one of the Candidate to the Dems election-He is an old man with glasses. Hillary won the race.
According to your standard he is a left wing. The question is if he is considering being a leftis according to our, the European standard
Lets go back to discuss mass shooting
Markus
Catfish
06-22-22, 03:38 PM
The 'reshaping of society' would be the attempt to change long held beliefs and norms to advance a political and social agenda. [...].
Had written a long answer, but it vanished due to a browser glitch (Edge, of course) :(
In short:
Imho the lgbtq thing is a counter reaction to gay etc. people having been suppressed, criminalized and condemned for centuries, and all those reforms and civil rights being introduced never tackled this.
I do not think that sudenly more people are becoming gay /lesbian /bi /transgender /queer /whatever just because their "coming out" is suddenly allowed as being regarded as normal, and accepted as such, still minor compared to the statistical representative cross section of what you call humanity. Accept there are always some who are different, try not to humiliate them.
This has not much to do with "left" ideas but with human biology and relations, including tolerance. When i think about what England did to Alan Turing it still makes me vomit.
"The reshaping of the society", young humans have always had new ideas and old people were forever ranting against them, right or wrong. Give them time, it will all work out in the long run. And (unfortunately) nothing has or will really change(d).
Ostfriese
06-22-22, 03:42 PM
We got all of those types here too although some may call themselves just Socialists.
And now you got me wondering, just who are the Stalinists in your government?
The American political spectrum is very narrowed down (a fact most scholars including Americans agree on). Americans have a tendency to call everything left of the center "communism". In general Americans have an interesting tendency to use the term "communism" without understanding what communism is.
I'm sure that there is the occasional communist or leninist in the US. None of the major politicians is anywhere near that, however. The democrats as a whole are right leaning centrists, very much like the German CDU or the French LR. Sanders and AOC would be called "social democrats" in Europe, very moderate left-wingers (and, btw, much better at that than the current social democrat chancellor of Germany, Olaf Scholz).
On the other end of the spectrum many "politicians" which are considered to be "staunch conservatives" in the US would be called fascists and/or far right extremists in Europe (and rightfully so...).
Ostfriese
06-22-22, 03:48 PM
This is untrue on all points. How could it not effect them and society as a whole if it is based on unscientific assumptions? And if these unscientific beliefs are taught to children how could that be good? I'll go on record here and say that what you or anyone else believes about sex and gender is your business. I could care less until that moment when I am ask to believe and accept something I know is not true. I wouldn't do that to you or anyone else. Don't do it to me.
Quite wrong on so many accounts (and this "conservative" point of view usually doesn't survive the first contact with climate change).
You are not even asked to accept. You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently.
And I highly doubt you "know" it to be not true. You may want it to be not true, and you might put yourself under the illusion that it can't be true because it doesn't fit your point of view. That doesn't make it not true, however.
u crank
06-22-22, 05:09 PM
You are not even asked to accept.
Sorry but that is just not true. Not only are we asked to accept but any criticism of trans and LGBTQ+ ideology can get a person into all kinds of trouble. I'm not sure what it is like in your country but that is a fact of life in the US and here in Canada. I believe that the UK is just as bad. This is 'wrong think' right out of 1984. Doesn't seem very 'progressive'.
You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently.
As I have stated, I could care less what other people believe about themselves. If they are happy that is all that matters. Good luck to them. But don't tell me that radical ideologies of any kind do not have an effect on the rest of society. The very idea that people can deny the state that they were born in (a scientific fact) and then cut off body parts to affirm that denial is not normal. I support anyone's right to do that or anything else to their bodies, but don't tell me it is normal or healthy behavior.
And I highly doubt you "know" it to be not true. You may want it to be not true, and you might put yourself under the illusion that it can't be true because it doesn't fit your point of view. That doesn't make it not true, however.
I know that females have 2 X chromosomes and males have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome. Is that news to you?
Jeff-Groves
06-22-22, 06:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-jRpFik3c
The American political spectrum is very narrowed down (a fact most scholars including Americans agree on). Americans have a tendency to call everything left of the center "communism". In general Americans have an interesting tendency to use the term "communism" without understanding what communism is.
Oh I definitely understand your point, even if I disagree with it's conclusion. Many of us here in America feel the same way when we listen to Europeans arrogantly try to lecture us on our tendencies. :up:
Ostfriese
06-23-22, 12:07 AM
any criticism of trans and LGBTQ+ ideology
Nice wording for something that in 99% of the cases is nothing but "discrimination" (and meant as such).
he very idea that people can deny the state that they were born in (a scientific fact) and then cut off body parts to affirm that denial is not normal. I support anyone's right to do that or anything else to their bodies, but don't tell me it is normal or healthy behavior.
Again proving my point: you don't understand, you don't try to understand, because you simply don't want to understand.
"Normal" btw is very problematic, because there's no definition of "normality" beyond the individual. Two people, two different ideas of "normality".
Healthy behaviour? There's an awful lot things people do that are far away from healthy.
I know that females have 2 X chromosomes and males have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome. Is that news to you?
Is it news to you that there are males with two X chromosomes (about one in 10.000 to 20.000)? Is it news to you that there are XY-females (one in 10.000? Is it news to you that there are XYY males (about one in 7000)? Is it news to you that there are XXY males (rather common, about one in every 500 to 1000)?
les green01
06-23-22, 02:59 AM
This conservative thinking it is funny all these Europeans are experts on the US when they probably haven't lived or spent time here personally I don't care if someone gay or what ever but it couldn't be taught in grade school maybe not school at all but should be up to the parents but then I'm also a believer in spare the rod spoil the child but also trying to figure out what any of this stuff got to do with mass shooting topic
u crank
06-23-22, 06:08 AM
Nice wording for something that in 99% of the cases is nothing but "discrimination" (and meant as such).
Again proving my point: you don't understand, you don't try to understand, because you simply don't want to understand.
Accusing me of not wanting to understand is childish. How do you know that? I think I understand the subject quite well. It is not very hard to find out. The pros and cons of trans ideology are widely available. You seem unable to differentiate between criticism and discrimination. I think I have been quite clear on that. If you are saying that the trans movement can't be examined and criticized then you are making my exact point. Is trans ideology or any ideology for that matter above being questioned? There is a certain authoritarian bent to that kind of thing which I find disturbing.
Healthy behavior? There's an awful lot things people do that are far away from healthy.
That is true. But again let us ask a simple question. Is cutting off body parts one of those things?
u crank
06-23-22, 06:33 AM
Sorry but I somehow missed this post.
In short:
Imho the lgbtq thing is a counter reaction to gay etc. people having been suppressed, criminalized and condemned for centuries, and all those reforms and civil rights being introduced never tackled this.
I do not think that sudenly more people are becoming gay /lesbian /bi /transgender /queer /whatever just because their "coming out" is suddenly allowed as being regarded as normal, and accepted as such, still minor compared to the statistical representative cross section of what you call humanity. Accept there are always some who are different, try not to humiliate them.
This has not much to do with "left" ideas but with human biology and relations, including tolerance. When i think about what England did to Alan Turing it still makes me vomit.
Well said, especially this. "Accept there are always some who are different, try not to humiliate them."
"The reshaping of the society", young humans have always had new ideas and old people were forever ranting against them, right or wrong. Give them time, it will all work out in the long run. And (unfortunately) nothing has or will really change(d).
Obviously human society is evolving. It is only natural. And there will always be radical ideas that come into play. But some of these ideas are pushed hard by activists that sometimes don't represent the majority. That is the "reshaping" that I was referring to. And these types are easily found out because immediately upon having a discussion they start with the accusations of bigotry. They simply do not want the discussion.
The reshaping of society is ongoing, sometimes good and sometimes not so good. I believe that the best defense to the bad "reshaping" is knowledge.
Had written a long answer, but it vanished due to a browser glitch (Edge, of course) :(
Yea that is a drag. I now compose long posts on Notepad and then copy/paste. And even then .... :D
You are not even asked to accept. You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently. I call BS.
Masterpiece Cakeshop vs Colorado civil rights commission. While the cakeshop prevailed in their appeal to the Supreme Court, (this was a very narrow ruling specific to this instance). Please pay specific attention to the dissenting opinion of the Court.
This conservative thinking it is funny all these Europeans are experts on the US when they probably haven't lived or spent time here personally I don't care if someone gay or what ever but it couldn't be taught in grade school maybe not school at all but should be up to the parents but then I'm also a believer in spare the rod spoil the child but also trying to figure out what any of this stuff got to do with mass shooting topic
Your posts are difficult to read because of your refusal to use punctuation marks but I think I agree. :)
Jeff-Groves
06-25-22, 10:38 AM
Norway throws it's hat in the ring.
:o
Really, the Nazis? Have they started rounding up Jews or something?
He is a Space Chicken.
From our European perspective the US doesn't even have anything that's truly left.
Your right but your country will support. A war if American Politician's tell them to.Get on your knee and kiss,The Democrat party's hand Joe Biden is their rep your government and your country will fight this war for Ukraine. That's what your country agreed to at the G7. Indefinitely so don't cry.
Argumentations among Americans (not just politicians) these days seem to be a simple "we against them", with arguments reduced to "it's their fault" and the population at each others' throats, while the richest 1% fleece the rest of the nation relentlessly and a minority of christian fundamentalists dominates the reshaping of society which already produces far more losers than it can handle.
Quite obviously this occasionally creates preople who go on rampage, but it's seemingly never treated seriously for more than a few days of the usual round of arguments ("their fault" "no, their fault" "guns" "no guns" "thoughts and prayers" "we can't do anything") before fading out in the similarily usual "nothing" that is actually done. In the end everyone waits for the next shooting, hoping it won't be his/her kids' and relatives' names being listed on the NY Times front page for the entire world to see.
Yes here in America we have a Population, a melting pot. We have no cohesive identity as a country.The people who populate this country are only here for one thing.How can i be smarter and get over on the idiots that are dumber than me. In our society it's about money and the more you make the better you can live.And that's what America is about. And if our Politicians decide your country has something we need.Your Politician's can join Nato and get Nuclear security and Financial aid.They can tell their country's citizen look what we have done for you.We have given you peace. Meanwhile they are taking all the financial aid for themselves. Nothing changes for you.
Next thing you know your country is supporting the Americans in another war. Now you have to shoot your dog and rob your neighbors.Because your Politicians spent the financial aid living the lifestyle of the Americans. And you find out your country is broke.And your Politicians has sold all your food stuffs to support the Americans in another war in a country you never heard of and will never set foot in. Where did your leaders go? Well hell they took and saved that finical aid and went to California America. LoL. Oh i must tell you tell you that's why we all have guns here.It's a Dog eat Dog society.
Today Denmark became a sad member of countries where there has been mass shooting.
Danish police said several people had been hit by gunshots at a shopping mall in the capital Copenhagen on Sunday.
https://cyprus-mail.com/2022/07/03/several-hit-by-gunshots-at-shopping-mall-in-copenhagen-danish-police/
Markus
Skybird
07-03-22, 03:15 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-62031793
The world is a zoo.
Brightstar6
07-04-22, 12:24 AM
In the mean yime back at the bar s ranch..Police shoot black man 60 times in Akron..60 TIMES!! You talk about over kill..And now we have a national holiday and a lot of really irritated blacks that may want to start Christmas shopping early...
Jimbuna
07-04-22, 05:56 AM
Sometimes even the strictest firearm controls aren't enough.
Jimbuna
07-04-22, 07:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TYFbN01g3c
What's more sad is the disinformation and conspiracy who has arise after this terrible shooting.
The official and which I also support-The perpetrator was an ethnic 22 years old Danish man-Who is suffering from some psychological issues.
It was not Terror.
(Here I disagree-If a person start shooting into a crowd-Then it's in my terminology terror)
Markus
Jimbuna
07-04-22, 12:52 PM
Christ! Not another one!
Five people have been shot dead at a 4 July Independence Day parade near the US city of Chicago, city officials say.
The event in Highland Park, a Chicago suburb, was suddenly halted about 10 minutes after it began, when several shots were heard.
City authorities described the incident as "active" and said 16 people had also been hospitalised.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62042636
Buddahaid
07-04-22, 12:59 PM
Wonderful. I wonder what this motive is about?
em2nought
07-04-22, 11:05 PM
I wonder how much a gallon of gas will cost if we don't own firearms anymore? :hmmm:
Christ! Not another one!
...no worries... the NRA & the GOP are digging out the "Thoughts & Prayers" rubber stamps as we all post...
...it is interesting how extremely silent the GOP has become after the latest spate of mass shootings in the US; could it be they are realizing that fewer and fewer voters are buying the NRA/GOP company/party line regarding their defense of assault weapons and their seeming ignorance of basic common sense?...
...funny how midterm elections can mute political BS...
<O>
d@rk51d3
07-07-22, 11:36 PM
Sometimes even the strictest firearm controls aren't enough.
Shinzo Abe approves this post.
I was talking to a left-wing friend of mine recently when he said, "No-one needs an assault weapon like an AR-15. You don't even need a round like 7.62 for hunting ... it's made for killing people. The most you might need for self defense is a .22 or something like that. And AR-15s are semi-automatic!"
:hmmm:
[sigh]
I began to explain to him that:
The majority of AR-15s are chambered in 5.56, not 7.62.
5.56 mm is literally .22 inches. (basically the same as .223)
Granted, the cartridge of the 5.56 is much larger than e.g., a .22 LR and the bullet has slightly more mass, so it does have a higher muzzle velocity and more energy (~10x more).
A .22, on the other hand, will almost certainly not stop a psychotic/drugged individual: the type of person likely to commit violent crimes.
7.62 is about .3 in., similar to .30-06, .308, .30-30, etc. and obviously bigger than 5.56.
All of these 30 caliber rounds are widely used by hunters and have roughly twice the energy of a 5.56 fired from an AR-15.
The .30-06 round was originally developed for the U.S. Army.
Many hunters use semi-automatic rifles.
Semi-automatic ≠ [fully] automatic.
There is so little agreement on what an "assault weapon" even is that the only reliable traits seem to be "possibly used by a military" and "scary". The only common one that makes any sense is a high-capacity magazine.
All of this is moot because: Second Amendment.
... but I didn't even get to #3 before he interrupted with some more nonsense. At that point, I said that it was probably best if we didn't talk about guns.
It has been my experience that the people who are the most vocal about banning guns of a particular sort are also the people who know little to nothing about them. Or worse: they "know" the wrong things - and they want to tell you about it. Or worst of all: they know the wrong things, want to tell you about it, and are in a position to make laws. :o:timeout:
And you can say whatever you want about the Second Amendment - it's right there in black and brown for anyone to read. It's not even complicated. It's literally one sentence. But just in case you need the "plain English" version, here you go: 'Americans will always have the right to own guns because they need to band together and train to protect their freedom.'
That's it. It really is that simple. Why people feel the need to debate its meaning is beyond me. So: if you want to legally ban any gun, then you must amend the Constitution.
To be clear: I am not saying that we shouldn't do everything in our power to keep atrocities like mass shootings from happening. But do you really think that banning this gun, that gun or even all guns will have any effect? We actually did amend the Constitution a while back to totally ban something nationwide. Remember how everybody went along with it, how it didn't help create an organized crime empire and how we didn't turn around and amend the Constitution again to reverse the ban? Yeah, me neither.
d@rk51d3
07-08-22, 01:09 AM
I was talking to a left-wing friend of mine recently when he said, "No-one needs an assault weapon like an AR-15. You don't even need a round like 7.62 for hunting ... it's made for killing people. The most you might need for self defense is a .22 or something like that. And AR-15s are semi-automatic!"
:hmmm:
[sigh]
I began to explain to him that:
The majority of AR-15s are chambered in 5.56, not 7.62.
5.56 mm is literally .22 inches. (basically the same as .223)
Granted, the cartridge of the 5.56 is much larger than e.g., a .22 LR and the bullet has slightly more mass, so it does have a higher muzzle velocity and more energy (~10x more).
A .22, on the other hand, will almost certainly not stop a psychotic/drugged individual: the type of person likely to commit violent crimes.
7.62 is about .3 in., similar to .30-06, .308, .30-30, etc. and obviously bigger than 5.56.
All of these 30 caliber rounds are widely used by hunters and have roughly twice the energy of a 5.56 fired from an AR-15.
The .30-06 round was originally developed for the U.S. Army.
Many hunters use semi-automatic rifles.
Semi-automatic ≠ [fully] automatic.
There is so little agreement on what an "assault weapon" even is that the only reliable traits seem to be "possibly used by a military" and "scary". The only common one that makes any sense is a high-capacity magazine.
All of this is moot because: Second Amendment.
... but I didn't even get to #3 before he interrupted with some more nonsense. At that point, I said that it was probably best if we didn't talk about guns.
It has been my experience that the people who are the most vocal about banning guns of a particular sort are also the people who know little to nothing about them. Or worse: they "know" the wrong things - and they want to tell you about it. Or worst of all: they know the wrong things, want to tell you about it, and are in a position to make laws. :o:timeout:
And you can say whatever you want about the Second Amendment - it's right there in black and brown for anyone to read. It's not even complicated. It's literally one sentence. But just in case you need the "plain English" version, here you go: 'Americans will always have the right to own guns because they need to band together and train to protect their freedom.'
That's it. It really is that simple. Why people feel the need to debate its meaning is beyond me. So: if you want to legally ban any gun, then you must amend the Constitution.
To be clear: I am not saying that we shouldn't do everything in our power to keep atrocities like mass shootings from happening. But do you really think that banning this gun, that gun or even all guns will have any effect? We actually did amend the Constitution a while back to totally ban something nationwide. Remember how everybody went along with it, how it didn't help create an organized crime empire and how we didn't turn around and amend the Constitution again to reverse the ban? Yeah, me neither.
Had a discussion with another that couldn't comprehend the fact that most handguns are semi-automatic too. Didn't match the media cool-aid she'd been gulping down, about scary black, military looking rifles that could take down an entire army. :har:
Rockstar
07-08-22, 06:22 AM
Denier alert! :haha:
https://www.cchrint.org/2021/02/09/cchr-reports-1-million-decline-in-us-children-on-mind-altering-drugs/
https://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/violence-report.pdf
The irritability and impulsivity [from antidepressants] can make people suicidal or homicidal.” - Joseph Glenmullen Harvard Medical School Psychiatrist
“The link between antidepressants and violence, including suicide and homicide, is well established.” - Patrick D. Hahn Affiliate Professor of Biology, Loyola University Maryland
“Violence and other potentially criminal behavior caused by prescription drugs are medicine’s best kept secret.” - Professor David Healy Leading Psychopharmacology Expert and Professor of Psychiatry in Wales
No History of Violence Until Prescribed Zoloft
On May 25, 2001, Judge Barry O’Keefe blamed the antidepressant Zoloft (sertraline) for turning David Hawkins, a peaceful, law-abiding man, into a violent killer. Hawkins had no history of violence and had remained gainfully employed throughout his life. Judge O’Keefe said that had Hawkins not taken the antidepressant, “it is overwhelmingly probable” that his wife, “would not have been killed....” It was “inconsistent with the loving, caring relationship which existed between him and his wife and with their happy marriage of 50 years.” Hawkins was sentenced to three years in prison.
Of nearly 410 psychiatric drug warnings, 27 warned of violence, aggression, hostility, mania, psychosis or homicidal ideation; 49 warned of self-harm or suicide/suicidal ideation; 17 were for addiction or withdrawal effects; and 27 were linked to Serotonin Syndrome found in antidepressant use and marked by symptoms that include agitation, restlessness and confusion.
According to above sources there are 400,000,000 psychiatric drug prescriptions. Some of the most well known shootings involved these drugs.
One of my American friend had posted this on her wall
Markus
One of my American friend had posted this on her wall
Markus
LOL, She should really look at some of the gun control laws already on the books.
LOL, She should really look at some of the gun control laws already on the books.
She should look up our abortion laws too. "Every" woman in America, in fact "most" women in America don't have to do any of that. They can get an abortion right up until the brat is getting ready to pop out on it's own.
Truth be told it's much less hassle to murder an unborn baby than it is to buy a gun in most of the same places.
u crank
07-08-22, 08:11 AM
...no worries... the NRA & the GOP are digging out the "Thoughts & Prayers" rubber stamps as we all post...
Well it would be interesting to know what the Democrats are proposing to do about it. Do you know? Does anybody know?
em2nought
07-08-22, 04:40 PM
Well it would be interesting to know what the Democrats are proposing to do about it. Do you know? Does anybody know?
Democrats have "done" enough already.
Maybe kids should have to join the NRA to own a firearm. How many NRA members have perpetrated a mass shooting?
Democrats have "done" enough already.
Maybe kids should have to join the NRA to own a firearm. How many NRA members have perpetrated a mass shooting? Kids (minors)are not allowed to posses/handle or use a firearm except under certain circumstances and those circumstances ALWAYS require ADULT SUPERVISION
Robert Crimo is 22 yrs old, and is for all intents and purposes, an adult.
Torvald Von Mansee
07-09-22, 09:12 AM
I'm just glad I can get a conceal carry permit in Maryland, now, if I want to!!
Well it would be interesting to know what the Democrats are proposing to do about it. Do you know? Does anybody know?
Gee, there must not be any news coverage up your way, eh?... :haha:
There was that latest batch of gun legislation just passed by the Congress and signed by the President, the one with some of the remedies long sought by -- who was it now? Oh, yeah, that's right, the DEMs -- and there are more in the pipeline; otherwise , the GOP is wearing out their "Thoughts & Prayer" rubber stamps as their contribution as a "solution" to the problem, which seems to be their only means of dealing with a situation they could help alleviate...
Again, it is interesting how McConnell and some of the other GOP bigwigs came suddenly to hand to become 'bipartisan' to pass the latest gun laws; and, again, its interesting how impending midterms seem to have a 'compromising' effect on them...
...who knows?...maybe if a few more innocents are slaughtered, maybe they will develop common sense and compassion, too...
<O>
My American friends What should be done, according to you, to get rid or increase these mass shootings ?
Markus
My American friends What should be done, according to you, to get rid or increase these mass shootings ?
Markus
there are 393 million small arms owned by citizens in this country, ( I currently own 7 of them), there isn't any "magic bullet" legislation to change it without a constitutional amendment.
Jeff-Groves
07-09-22, 02:27 PM
there are 393 million small arms owned by citizens in this country,
Not counting unregistered arms.
:03:
u crank
07-09-22, 04:02 PM
There was that latest batch of gun legislation just passed by the Congress and signed by the President, the one with some of the remedies long sought by -- who was it now? Oh, yeah, that's right, the DEMs
And if you think that it is going to make any difference maybe you should watch the news occasionally. There are about 20,000 murders annually in the USA. That rate rose almost 30% in 2020. Almost all of the murders that occur in large cities happen in cities controlled by Democrats. Tell me again how they are going to solve the problem? People like Robert Crimo and Payton Gendron could give a flying fig about any gun control legislation. Psychopaths as a rule don't see laws as a deterrent. The problem is and has always been at the smart end of the gun. What's the plan for that?
Catfish
07-09-22, 04:28 PM
[...] about 20,000 murders annually in the USA. That rate rose almost 30% in 2020. Almost all of the murders that occur in large cities happen in cities controlled by Democrats. [blah]
Easy to see. Trump "mobilized" (or better agitated) all his idiot followers to fight against democrats with all means available. Same as this Capitol thing.
Hmm that was an interesting point of view- So every killer in States run by Dem's are REP Trump supporters.
Interesting.
Markus
Not counting unregistered arms.
:03:
That number is from 2018, and according to them (Small Arms Survey) only 1,073,743 are registered. So the vast majority are unregistered, 392,273,257 to be precise. :D
u crank
07-09-22, 05:45 PM
Easy to see. Trump "mobilized" (or better agitated) all his idiot followers to fight against democrats with all means available. Same as this Capitol thing.
There were 836 murders in Chicago in 2021. That city has been controlled by Democrats since 1969. That is more than double the number of mass shooting victims in a year. And that is just one Democrat controlled city. There are dozens more. But yea, Trump shot JFK, stole Obama's limo and ate my homework. Is there anything he can't do?
And if you think that it is going to make any difference maybe you should watch the news occasionally. There are about 20,000 murders annually in the USA. That rate rose almost 30% in 2020. Almost all of the murders that occur in large cities happen in cities controlled by Democrats. Tell me again how they are going to solve the problem? People like Robert Crimo and Payton Gendron could give a flying fig about any gun control legislation. Psychopaths as a rule don't see laws as a deterrent. The problem is and has always been at the smart end of the gun. What's the plan for that?
I don't really see your points; the DEMs pushing for and succeeding in getting at least some legislation passed that even attempts to address the problem sure beats the NRA-buttwhipped GOP and their "Thoughts & Prayers" rubber stamp BS; and the DEMs are actually trying to solve the problem of guns in their cities, but, you know, something always seems to want to stop them -- now who could or what that be? Oh, yeah, the GOP and the NRA and the other Far Right gun fetishists who have bupkis in the way of their own 'solutions' and seem to be more preoccupied with deflection, distraction, ducking and otherwise just sitting on their thumbs; its true psychos don't see laws as a deterrent, but it is also true that existing laws have served as a known deterrent against other potential situations of mindless violence; imagine just how bad the murder situation would be if there were no restrictions at all on irresponsible gun ownership and use; the problem is at the smart end of the gun? Then how about doing all that is possible to assure the 'noon-smart' don't have ample opportunity to arm themselves due to lax and/or nonexistent laws and regulations; the guy who slaughtered those poor kids in Texas literally bought his weapon hours before his murder rampage due to lax gun purchase laws and regulation and, probably because, hey, its Texas...
Even though I don't don't find substance to your "points', please know you have my "Thoughts & Prayers"... :03:
Just recently I had a past childhood brush with the effects of the 'non-smart' use of a gun brought back to memory; I was browsing on Google maps, looking at my childhood neighborhood in San Francisco and discovered that an old one block alleyway I thought had no name was actually listed as a street an, indeed had a name; I was surprised, since, when I lived in the neighborhood, there were no street signs at either end of the alley; I Googled the alley/street name and found a site where the alley was discussed; also discussed was an infamous tragedy that occurred in the alley...
There was a kid in my neighborhood named Mark King. Mark was well known around the neighborhood and was always called "Doc" (for reasons I never knew or now now). He and his bother Mike both went to the same Catholic school I attended; Mike was in the same grade and classes as myself. They had lost their mother at a young age for both and were being raised by their widower father, a stern, gruff blue-collar ma who worked very hard to support his motherless sons. Mike never really got over losing his mom and and retreated into a psychological deterioration and isolation; the nuns at the school tried to help him cope, but he became more and more detached. I had sister in the same school who was suffering from a number of disabilities, who I had to often defend from the bullying and insults of the 'good Christian' other students; Mike's deterioration was not unnoticed by those 'god Christians' either and Doc had to defend Mike against the rest. Doc developed into a sort of street tough and was feared by many of the kids, and not a few of the adults, in the neighborhood who transgressed his path or raised his ire, but Doc was also a very fair person and was known as basically a good kid; he was sort of our neighborhood's "Fonzie". To the kids of my age, he and his gang were the 'Big Kids" and we were appropriately in awe and fear of him, but I do have memories of him extending to me, on two separate occasions, greatly appreciated and unexpected acts of humanity that I never would have otherwise expected of him; I somehow have come to think, perhaps, he sensed I was in a similar situation with my sister as he was with his brother, and maybe he knew I had also defended Mike on occasion, so he extended his aid in reciprocation...
One day, in a house along the alleyway, a young Navy sailor, home on leave, got beered-up and decided it was a really good idea to have some target practice, shooting at a tree growing in front of the fence adjoining the alley. He fired of a shot, missed the tree, and put a round through the fence. He also put that round through the body of Doc King who was, like all of kid's did, taking a short cut through the alley. Mercifully, it was reported Doc died instantly. Now this was in 1960, and the times were different; gun deaths and gun violence were very rare in cities at the time and the news of Doc's murder stunned the whole city; it was front page news in the city's major newspapers and was headline news on TV and radio. (Nowadays, it would have just been a short blip in the news.) There was huge outcry by the public and was the closest I have ever seen to a potential for a lynch mob; people, most of whom really had no idea who Doc even was, were livid. The police were concerned and put the sailor under extra protection. The saving grace was Doc's father: he made it publicly known he did not wish any harm to come to the sailor and everyone backed off, out of respect for his grief. I don't remember what ever became of the sailor, but I still vividly remember the day Doc died and the impact it had not only on me, who had benefited from his unexpected kindnesses, but on everyone in the neighborhood and in the city. I never walked down that alleyway again after Doc died; it seemed almost like walking over an open grave; and the funny thing is, when I found that site talking about the alley, there were comments from others who remembered Doc and his death and who also, over 60 years later, had fond memories of that kid and his impact on the neighborhood; there were even comments about some others of us kids who would never walk down the alleyway again...
I had made reference to McConnell perhaps finding common sense with the midterms looming; I also wonder if, perhaps, he may also have been stunned when at least 10 GOP Senators broke ranks and participated in the bipartisan effort with 10 DEM Senators to pass the latest gun legislation; 50 DEM votes and 10 GOP votes would be just about enough to put the kibosh on McConnell's filibuster ploys; as time goes on and more tragedies occur, it will be interesting to see just how solid that GOP wall remains...
<O>
I hope they lose in the court
The publisher of a youth shooting magazine and several gun-rights groups filed a lawsuit on Friday challenging a recently enacted California law banning the marketing of guns to minors by manufacturers and others in the firearms industry.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/gun-groups-challenge-california-ban-firearms-marketing-kids-2022-07-08/
Markus
u crank
07-09-22, 06:34 PM
I don't really see your points;
Democrats only care about gun control when it is politically expedient. Mass murder events they know they can make political hay with because of the Republican support for the 2nd amendment. But it is very obvious that when it comes to the day to day murder and mayhem they don't seem all that concerned. People like Lori Lightfoot have not solved the problem of young Black men killing each other on a daily basis. Why is that? What possible legislation could you possibly pass in the USA that would stop criminals from illegally obtaining guns? Or using them. One would think that the smartest thing to do is stop the largest number of murders first.
That is my point.
Rockstar
07-09-22, 10:05 PM
According to the FDA’s MedWatch data, between 2004 and 2012, there were more than four hundred thousand adverse reactions from psychiatric drugs reported to the federal drug agency, including drug induced attempted and completed suicides and homicides. While the FDA itself estimates that less than 1% of all serious adverse events are reported directly to it>
https://www.cchrint.org/issues/watchdog-announces-psychiatric-drug-side-effects-search-engine/
I’m sure Democrats have the ultimate answer but it’s locked away in the same place Schiff keeps his evidence of collusion. Just be patient, I hear they want to do a big reveal next election. They only have a few more low hanging fruit to question. Any day now. :D
I hope they lose in the court
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/gun-groups-challenge-california-ban-firearms-marketing-kids-2022-07-08/
Markus
LOL... firearms scare you don't they.
Onkel Neal
07-10-22, 09:27 AM
Democrats only care about gun control when it is politically expedient. Mass murder events they know they can make political hay with because of the Republican support for the 2nd amendment. But it is very obvious that when it comes to the day to day murder and mayhem they don't seem all that concerned. People like Lori Lightfoot have not solved the problem of young Black men killing each other on a daily basis. Why is that? What possible legislation could you possibly pass in the USA that would stop criminals from illegally obtaining guns? Or using them. One would think that the smartest thing to do is stop the largest number of murders first.
That is my point.
Yes, exactly.
And the left loves to blow up Trump's "This carnage ends here" statement without the context that he was referring to the level of violence and crime in the cities.
I've seen this excerpted in many liberal attacks as if Trump was referring to something else.
Onkel Neal
07-18-22, 04:34 PM
Indiana mall shooter brought multiple weapons, good Samaritan who shot him credited with saving countless lives
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-mall-shooter-brought-multiple-weapons-good-samaritan-shot-cred-rcna38755
The suspected gunman in the Indiana mall mass shooting carried two rifles, a pistol and more than 100 rounds of ammo, authorities said Monday, and the good Samaritan who fatally shot him is credited with saving “countless lives.”
Sapirman stayed in the bathroom for 62 minutes, then exited and began firing near and into the mall's food court with a Sig Sauer model M400 5.56 caliber rifle, killing three people.
Elisjsha Dicken, 22, of Seymour, Indiana, was at the mall shopping with his girlfriend, saw the shooter, and within minutes of Sapirman first opening fire, returned fire with a handgun and killed Sapirman, Ison said.
"His actions were nothing short of heroic," Ison said. "He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun, was very proficient in that, very tactically sound. And as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him."
Sig Sauer M400, hey, that's my rifle.
Under the circumstances, not something I would want to broadcast casually...
<O>
Bubblehead1980
07-18-22, 10:20 PM
Indiana mall shooter brought multiple weapons, good Samaritan who shot him credited with saving countless lives
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-mall-shooter-brought-multiple-weapons-good-samaritan-shot-cred-rcna38755
Sig Sauer M400, hey, that's my rifle.
Should never broadcast what type of gun or how many you have. Keep em guessing:Kaleun_Salute:
Onkel Neal
07-19-22, 06:26 AM
Well, it's just a fact, that's all. :yep:
Why do you need a rifle with an 800 RPM cyclic rate? Are the varmints that prolific? ;)
Onkel Neal
07-19-22, 09:19 AM
No, of course not. I don't "need" it, I merely desire it. I do like to throw down a crap-ton of rounds on scattering wild hogs on the ranch, and I like shooting it for target practice. Set up 10 targets and see if I can get 3 rounds on each one in 15 secs, etc.
Brb, let me check... back; yep, my M400 is still sitting quietly in my gun safe. Hasn't shown any desire to be part of a mass shooting.
I don't need a car that goes over 60 mph, and I don't need a computer that is capable of playing games. But I want them. :shucks:
Why do you need a rifle with an 800 RPM cyclic rate? Are the varmints that prolific? ;)
A meaningless statistic given that one can hardly operate a trigger finger anywhere near that fast. Remember these are not machine guns as the gun banners would have you believe. We are talking about less capable civilian look alikes here.
No, of course not. I don't "need" it, I merely desire it. I do like to throw down a crap-ton of rounds on scattering wild hogs on the ranch, and I like shooting it for target practice. Set up 10 targets and see if I can get 3 rounds on each one in 15 secs, etc.
Brb, let me check... back; yep, my M400 is still sitting quietly in my gun safe. Hasn't shown any desire to be part of a mass shooting.
I don't need a car that goes over 60 mph, and I don't need a computer that is capable of playing games. But I want them. :shucks:
Exactly and one might also say the difference between a free man and a slave is the right to have those things.
You guys know I was punking you right? :D
Onkel Neal
07-21-22, 06:54 AM
I do now :) I was just responding as if you were serious.
I heard that the Mall Shooting Good Samaritan fired 10 shots, starting at a distance of 40 yards, and hitting the assailant with 8 of them. That is some darn fine shooting and far better that anything that the NYPD could pull off.
Onkel Neal
07-21-22, 09:18 AM
Yeah, that's really impressive, we don't train for that, and it's 100% unexpected, plus the surprise, the fear, man, it's scary, the idea of pulling your weapon and blasting away in a mall. :timeout:
Yeah, that's really impressive, we don't train for that, and it's 100% unexpected, plus the surprise, the fear, man, it's scary, the idea of pulling your weapon and blasting away in a mall. :timeout:
All it took was 15 seconds. Not much time to think.
It was the headline that caught my intention and I knew we have a mass shooting thread.
Do you agree what it says in the article ?
“The extent to which people feel unsafe only predicts gun ownership in counties in the South, where the more unsafe people feel, the more likely they are to own a gun,” Buttrick said. “If you look in areas that didn't have any slaves in the 1860s, whether people feel unsafe there today does not predict today’s county-level gun ownership.”
https://iflscience.com/the-grisly-reason-some-americans-might-think-guns-keep-them-safe-64968
Markus
It was the headline that caught my intention and I knew we have a mass shooting thread.
Do you agree what it says in the article ?
https://iflscience.com/the-grisly-reason-some-americans-might-think-guns-keep-them-safe-64968
Markus
No. I doubt it's basic premise and it sure doesn't explain the many US states who also now have high gun ownership rates that didn't even exist in the 1860's.
em2nought
08-19-22, 11:42 PM
Sounds like complete and utter B.S. to me. :hmmm:
Well, it's just a fact, that's all. :yep:
Texans are Texans. :D
It was the headline that caught my intention and I knew we have a mass shooting thread.
Do you agree what it says in the article ?
https://iflscience.com/the-grisly-reason-some-americans-might-think-guns-keep-them-safe-64968
Markus
That is one giant meadow muffin of an article. If by chance you read the actual study "DR'" Spalding cites (for those of you interested it is: Historical prevalence of slavery predicts contemporary American gun ownership ) you'll see it is nothing more than an attempt to equate gun owners with being racist. Anybody that thinks that study belongs anywhere but in an Outhouse is an idiot. I went and actually read the study and it is nothing but a bunch of disjointed statistics bent and twisted to fit a preconceived conclusion.
That is one giant meadow muffin of an article. If by chance you read the actual study "DR'" Spalding cites (for those of you interested it is: Historical prevalence of slavery predicts contemporary American gun ownership ) you'll see it is nothing more than an attempt to equate gun owners with being racist. Anybody that thinks that study belongs anywhere but in an Outhouse is an idiot. I went and actually read the study and it is nothing but a bunch of disjointed statistics bent and twisted to fit a preconceived conclusion.
The link doesn't work-You have only U in the URL address
I did not read the article-I saw the headlines and I thought I will find a clean url address without this fbclid in it. Then I will post in our..hmm doesn't we have a thread called mass shooting thread..? Could not find it at first so I made an advanced search and found it. So my American friends and others can discuss the content of the article.
I can understand by reading your answers to this link is.. it's bs.
Markus
That wasn't a link, I underlined it for emphasis. Here is the link:
Historical prevalence of slavery predicts contemporary American gun ownership (https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/1/3/pgac117/6656154)
and I repeat it's BS.
In a chat from a livestream an American wrote.
Many Americans do not own a weapon The average comes from Americans who owns a lot of weapons.
Markus
Jeff-Groves
08-21-22, 04:59 PM
You need to redefine. I have all kinds of 'weapons'.
But I don't have any FIRE ARMS.
You need to redefine. I have all kinds of 'weapons'.
But I don't have any FIRE ARMS.
It was the only thing this chatter wrote in chat.
Markus
Jeff-Groves
08-21-22, 05:29 PM
Then someone should point out that a Screw Driver can be a weapon.
Hell! Car keys held right can be a weapon.
When I got pulled over while travelling a Cop asked if I had weapons.
I told him "Everything in my Truck can be a weapon. Redefine your question."
He was not happy but changed his question. "Do you have any Guns?"
I asked him to define Guns. Again he was not happy.
I had several air guns used for construction work.
Then someone should point out that a Screw Driver can be a weapon.
Hell! Car keys held right can be a weapon.
When I got pulled over while travelling a Cop asked if I had weapons.
I told him "Everything in my Truck can be a weapon. Redefine your question."
He was not happy but changed his question.
I could not agree more.
Markus
Rockstar
08-27-22, 12:31 PM
Unfortunately just like skyrocketing tuition costs nobody ever asks WHY nobody ever thinks about the CAUSE. In response the majority of the sheeple just follow the party line of throwing tantrums which doesn’t do anyone any good.
This Teen Was Prescribed 10 Psychiatric Drugs. She’s Not Alone.
https://dnyuz.com/2022/08/27/this-teen-was-prescribed-10-psychiatric-drugs-shes-not-alone/
Intervention for her depression and anxiety came not from the divine but from the pharmaceutical industry. The following spring, a psychiatrist prescribed Prozac. The medication offered a reprieve from her suffering, but the effect dissipated, so she was prescribed an additional antidepressant, Effexor.
A medication cascade had begun. During 2021, the year she graduated, she was prescribed seven drugs. These included one for seizures and migraines — she experienced neither, but the drug can be also used to stabilize mood — and another to dull the side effects of the other medications, although it is used mainly for schizophrenia. She felt better some days but deeply sad on others.
But, these experts caution, such medications are too readily doled out, often as an easy alternative to therapy that families cannot afford or find, or aren’t interested in.
These drugs, generally intended for short-term use, are sometimes prescribed for years, even though they can have severe side effects — including psychotic episodes, suicidal, homicidal, violent behavior, weight gain and interference with reproductive development, according to a recent study published in Frontiers in Psychiatry.
Of course your average moron will immediately think it must be the gun, knife or club as the cause.
Onkel Neal
08-30-22, 09:15 AM
Good cops + heroic elderly vet
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/30/safeway-hero-employee-saved-lives/
Shootings at grocery stores are occurring more often, twisting an unremarkable errand into an unforgettable nightmare. Guns Down America, a nonprofit organization promoting gun control, counted 448 such incidents in which 137 people were killed during the 16½-month span between Jan. 1, 2020, and May 14, the day a gunman massacred 10 people at a grocery store in Buffalo. Included in the data: 10 people were killed during a mass shooting at a King Soopers grocery store in Boulder, Colo. Three months later, one person was killed at supermarket in Decatur, Ga. Three months after that, someone was fatally shot at a Kroger market in the Memphis area.
More Radio Wave Madness :oops:
Skybird
08-30-22, 09:32 AM
^ https://i.imgflip.com/1rzxs3.jpg
Rockstar
09-04-22, 08:47 PM
Mass Stabbing
Stabbings in Canada kill 10, wound 15; suspects at large
https://apnews.com/article/saskatchewan-stabbings-multiple-victims-suspects-sought-999fe33f8da5025e0e19a3010bae108f
A series of stabbings at an Indigenous community and at another town nearby in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan left 10 people dead and 15 wounded, Canadian police said Sunday as they searched for two suspects.
The stabbings took place in multiple locations on the James Smith Cree Nation and in the village of Weldon, northeast of Saskatoon, police said.
Did they use ballistic knives?
Onkel Neal
09-07-22, 05:03 PM
Holy hell, people are stupid.
Parole documents show Myles Sanderson, 32, has a decades-long criminal record, including 59 criminal convictions since he was 18, including assault, threats, and robbery. The files also indicate his childhood was marred by domestic violence and parental substance abuse.
That's like 5 criminal convictions a year since he turned 18. :o
After 3 he should have been a lifer.
The parole board in February said he would "not present an undue risk" and that his release would "contribute to the protection of society" by facilitating his rehabilitation.He was released in February while serving a four-year sentence.
Yeah, people are getting what they ask for.
Onkel Neal
09-08-22, 09:12 AM
A gunman who livestreamed himself driving around Memphis shooting at people, killing four and wounding three others in seemingly random attacks, was finally arrested after crashing a stolen car, police said early Thursday.
Kelly, 19, was released early from a prison sentence for aggravated assault, court records show, raising a sore point between the city's mayor and the county's top prosecutor that played out before the cameras at an early Thursday news conference.
"This is no way for us to live and it is not acceptable," said Memphis Mayor Jim Strickland, who later pounded the podium as he demanded accountability. "If Mr. Kelly served his full three-year sentence, he would still be in prison today and four of our fellow citizens would still be alive," he said.
Oh! You right, May-ah, you right!
ReallyDedPoet
09-08-22, 09:24 AM
Holy hell, people are stupid.
Another head scratcher for sure.
Rockstar
09-08-22, 12:54 PM
Voters in Shelby County swept away a slate of tough-on-crime officials on Thursday, ushering in a new era for criminal justice in Tennessee’s most populous county, home to Memphis.
I’m very excited,” Raumesh Akbari, a Democratic state senator from Memphis who champions criminal justice reform, told Bolts as she was leaving Mulroy’s victory party. “I think it’s a new day in Shelby County, with a new district attorney and new juvenile court judge, and it’s gonna be a totally different approach to how we handle the criminal justice system in Shelby County.”
https://mediosobson.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ezekiel-kelly-pistolero-memphis-tiroteo-08092022-700x438-1.jpg
https://mediosobson.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ezekiel-kelly-pistolero-memphis-tiroteo-08092022-700x438-1.jpg
I think that is a perfect picture of black culture. I just got completely knocked off line.
Active shooter at Michigan State University right now.
https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/34012
Rockstar
02-14-23, 07:32 AM
3 killed and suspect found dead from self inflicted wound. WTH is wrong with people.
Platapus
02-15-23, 04:36 PM
Why do they choose to commit murder and suicide in the wrong order?
Why do they choose to commit murder and suicide in the wrong order?
Endemic narcissism.
Made me sad reading this article
Firearms accounted for nearly 19% of childhood deaths (ages 1-18) in 2021, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Wonder database(. Nearly 3,600 children died in gun-related incidents that year. That’s about five children lost for every 100,000 children in the United States.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/29/health/us-children-gun-deaths-dg/index.html
Markus
Platapus
03-30-23, 04:59 PM
We need to start holding gun owners responsible and accountable for the proper safe storage of their weapons when not under their direct control.
Part of being a responsible gun owner is properly securing the weapon so it does not become accessible to the "wrong" people such as kids.
Rockstar
03-30-23, 05:05 PM
More than one out of 10 Americans over age 12—roughly 11 percent—take some form of anti-depressant/SSRI that has been known for DECADES to significantly increase thoughts of violence, suicide and aggressive behavior in children and adolescents who used these medications.
Skybird
03-30-23, 06:03 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081)
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/2048/cpsprodpb/A2F5/production/_129171714_optimised-us_mass_shootings-nc.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/2048/cpsprodpb/9923/production/_124930293_worst_mass_shootings_uvalde_2x640-nc.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/787F/production/_129174803_us_gun_related_deaths_chart_640-nc-2x-nc.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/A184/production/_125384314_gun_related_crimes_640-2x-nc.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/2048/cpsprodpb/2851/production/_124912301_optimised_guns_per_country-nc.png
Made me sad reading this article
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/29/health/us-children-gun-deaths-dg/index.html
Markus
On a related note, over 7700 children 18 and under died of drug overdoses. Which is the bigger threat to kids? guns or drugs?
Buddahaid
03-30-23, 06:53 PM
On a related note, over 7700 children 18 and under died of drug overdoses. Which is the bigger threat to kids? guns or drugs?
Does it really matter? Both need to be addressed.
Does it really matter? Both need to be addressed.
22 thousand plus gun control laws in this country have failed to solve the problem. Failed to even reduce the problem. Even more constitutionally infringing laws and regulations can not be the answer.
I think we need to do two things. We need to harden our school perimeters and provide security. We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.
Commander Wallace
03-30-23, 09:49 PM
22 thousand plus gun control laws in this country have failed to solve the problem. Failed to even reduce the problem. Even more constitutionally infringing laws and regulations can not be the answer.
I think we need to do two things. We need to harden our school perimeters and provide security. We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.
Indeed, after this sad event in Tennessee, there have been " copy cat " events country wide in the last few days. Security seems to be a very easy and rather elusive means to address these recurring issues. To the Law Enforcement officers credit who responded to this active shooter situation, they handled this situation as quick as humanly possibly and most likely averted more innocent lives being lost in dispatching this disturbed individual. :salute:
Legislatures in various states have floated the idea of having licensed and armed teachers. Some colleges are allowing their students to come to college armed, provided they have a legally obtained concealed carry license. I'm not sure how good of an idea this is however, one thing I am sure of.
Properly armed and trained people who carry weapons make very poor targets and for obvious reasons.
Indeed, after this sad event in Tennessee, there have been copy " cat events " country wide in the last few days. Security seems to be a very easy and rather elusive means to address these recurring issues. To the Law Enforcement officers credit who responded to this active shooter situation, they handled this situation as quick as humanly possibly and most likely averted more innocent lives in dispatching this disturbed individual. :salute:
Legislatures in various states have floated the idea of having licensed and armed teachers. Some colleges are allowing their students to come to college armed, provided they have a legally obtained concealed carry license. I'm not sure how good of an idea this is however, one thing I am sure of.
Properly armed and trained people who carry weapons make very poor targets and for obvious reasons.
And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.
Commander Wallace
03-30-23, 10:53 PM
And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.
That is exactly right. Armed staff / teachers may make a difference as well.
Ostfriese
03-31-23, 12:52 AM
And just as important if not more they should be hardening school physical security. There are too many unlocked doors and easily shattered large glass panels. Keeping a mad killer outside even for a few minutes might well give law enforcement enough time to neutralize them before they can get at the kids or staff.
Well, schools aren't prisons, and they aren't designed as such for a reason: to make the children not feel like a prisoner. OK, who cares about children's feelings, anyway?
More importantly: all the easily available entryways you want to seal of are at the same time easily available exits. Your idea of creating chokepoints to make it difficult to get into the building also make it difficult to get out of the building, like during a fire.
And most importantly: in most cases of mass shootings the perpetrators know their targets very well, and they have found ways to get in despite hardened security.
Armed teachers? American teachers are already not paid enough and treated like ****, now you want to burden them with the role of SWAT as well? Also this idea would also INCREASE the number of guns in schools.
First of this would make it easier for a perpetrator to get a gun (it's down to mugging 5'1" Mrs. Smith, basically). Secondly teachers are normal people with normal problems, so arming them might have unintended consequences as well (mass shootings HAVE been commited by teachers as well).
Even with training the teachers don't become marines or SWAT members. They only become people in street clothes running around armed. If there really was a mass shooting: would a real SWAT team ask before shooting someone running around with a gun whether he/she was the perpetrator? I highly doubt that.
"Arming teachers" is like the typical American answer to guns: "More guns". That has never worked before.
And with all of this you are only fighting the symptoms, of course, but not the underlying problems, which -I admit- are much more complex to identify, let alone addressing them.
Buddahaid
03-31-23, 01:15 AM
...Armed teachers? American teachers are already not paid enough and treated like ****, now you want to burden them with the role of SWAT as well?....
That is the big fallacy over arming teachers. The military doesn't just give a recruit a gun and a pat on the head, so how can you expect 3rd Grade teacher Mrs. Chulsets to fill the roll of armed protector? The idea is pure bull****! Sure, schools can be hardened even more, but that's not enough. More needs to be done at the inconvenience of gun ownership, or should I say gun trade.
Keep the illegal gun trade to Mexico in check as well.
Well, schools aren't prisons, and they aren't designed as such for a reason: to make the children not feel like a prisoner. OK, who cares about children's feelings, anyway?
More importantly: all the easily available entryways you want to seal of are at the same time easily available exits. Your idea of creating chokepoints to make it difficult to get into the building also make it difficult to get out of the building, like during a fire.
And most importantly: in most cases of mass shootings the perpetrators know their targets very well, and they have found ways to get in despite hardened security.
You're making several assumptions, the biggest one being you think that the only way to secure a schools perimeter is to make it a prison. Well airports don't look like prisons, neither do banks yet both places would be extremely difficult targets for a mass shooter.
Your second assumption is that stronger doors and entryways create choke points. It doesn't have to be that way either. It's easy to make doors and windows that are difficult to open from the outside but a snap to open from the inside. Crash bars and electronic strikes. I've put in dozens of them. The only way they don't help is if somebody props one open like what happened in Ulvade.
"Arming teachers" is like the typical American answer to guns: "More guns". That has never worked before.
Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.
Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?
And with all of this you are only fighting the symptoms, of course, but not the underlying problems, which -I admit- are much more complex to identify, let alone addressing them. Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.
Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.
Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?
Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.
I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)
Markus
Rockstar
03-31-23, 07:49 AM
I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)
Markus
You want people to do something about an individuals mind and how it thinks. That’s impossible.
What I hate is hypocrisy. Everyday you knowingly approve of child slavery, their deaths from mining precious and rare earth metals and the poisoning and destruction of the environment those mining operations cause. You willing support all of it and say nothing because in all honesty you don’t care one bit about those children or if they face hard misery and death.
You’re not alone though I don’t really care either. I gotta have my iPad.
I see it as a failure that your teachers has to carry guns and that you have to have walk through a special door(like the ones they have in airport)
Markus
A failure of what exactly Markus?
What would you call the forcible confiscation of millions of legally owned firearms as the left is demanding? Would that be a failure too?
I say leaving our schools open and undefended when we have the ability and means to protect them, that's what I would call a real failure.
You want people to do something about an individuals mind and how it thinks. That’s impossible.
What I hate is hypocrisy. Everyday you knowingly approve of child slavery, their deaths from mining precious ad rare earth metals and the poisoning and destruction of the environment those mining operations cause. You willing support all of it and say nothing because in all honesty you don’t care one bit about those children or if they face hard misery and death.
You’re not alone though I don’t really care either. I gotta have my iPad.
Touché You got me there my friend-I have no argument to put up.
Markus
A failure of what exactly Markus?
What would you call the forcible confiscation of millions of legally owned firearms as the left is demanding? Would that be a failure too?
I say leaving our schools open and undefended when we have the ability and means to protect them, that's what I would call a real failure.
What I meant was that your society has come so far in these school shootings that your teachers and guards has to carry gun in order to protect the children.
For me who's from Scandinavia/Germany it's unbelievable.
My comment isn't meant to criticize your society. It just made me :o
Markus
Onkel Neal
03-31-23, 08:11 AM
We need to start holding gun owners responsible and accountable for the proper safe storage of their weapons when not under their direct control.
Part of being a responsible gun owner is properly securing the weapon so it does not become accessible to the "wrong" people such as kids.
We also need to have a conversation on how the medias coverage of these events and their perpetrators may actually be contributing to their frequency.
Agree 100%
Commander Wallace
03-31-23, 08:56 AM
You're making several assumptions, the biggest one being you think that the only way to secure a schools perimeter is to make it a prison. Well airports don't look like prisons, neither do banks yet both places would be extremely difficult targets for a mass shooter.
Says you. How many school shootings have there been in states where teachers can carry? None. Think about it.
Why didn't this latest nut not pick the other schools on her list? Too difficult because of police presence and difficulty getting into the school.
Same reason for both. Mass shooters like any other criminal shy away from hardened targets. Ever wonder why mass shootings ONLY happen in "gun free" zones?
Here we can agree. Our society has created a generation of narcissistic sociopaths. That is going to reverberate in our society for decades.
I agree with all of this. If the will is there, you can protect anyone. I believe it can be easily done without the schools feeling like a prison. If the schools feel a bit like a prison, so be it. I think the kids in these times would feel safer if they knew there were mechanisms including deadly force, in place to protect their safety while at School and Church. It's very sad but in these times, we have to think about our most vulnerable citizens, meaning our kids. That's not to say the other people, older or otherwise aren't just as Important.
This lunatic chose this school because it was a soft target. Apparently, if reports are correct, she / it considered other targets but chose not to attack them because they were better protected. Rockstar said you can't predict someone's behavior. That's mostly true but not always. People around this crazy had alerted authorities to how unbalanced this individual was. It's sad to say but nothing can substitute for being prepared for the worst and planing accordingly.
The media certainly isn't helping either when they sensationalize tragic incidents like this as you and Neal have said, for ratings in competing with other networks.
Cybermat47
03-31-23, 09:01 AM
Media sensationalism could lead to other potential shooters being inspired or, even worse, trying to outdo their predecessors to achieve infamy.
Of course, though, that's not a single solution to the issue. Gun control and mental health are other factors that need to be addressed.
Skybird
03-31-23, 09:37 AM
The basis is a culture of violence, a founding of that culture in and by violence, and a historical heritage of violence. Social and sociometrical and economical reasons cannot be separated from this, since they too base on these fundaments, in their typical national interpretation that makes the USA actually the USA and different fom other places. The cream on top is a media circucs that from day to night lives by endlessly propagating "fear" as its greatest guarantor of quota and an endless focussing on and repetition of crime and violence. Not to mention the entertainment industry that is almost trivializing violence, turning it into an entertainment factor.
America is addicted to violence, it has it in its genes and in its blood and bones.
Think of the man what you want, but in Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore has worked out these connections as mercilessly as he has skillfully. It is and remains by far his best film, perhaps his only good film as some people say, I don't know, I don't know the others (or I forgot them, then i cannot have been too impressed: but BfC I remember).
Thats why I am pessimistic about linear instruments and measures being capable to solve the issue. All these calls for changes and laws and measures are cosmetic only, scratch only on the surface. Born in blood, living in blood, maybe summarises the dilemma best.
Rockstar
03-31-23, 01:10 PM
Last time this happened I proposed raising the age to 21 to purchase a firearm. If under 21 they can join the military and the government can train them to be proper killers. Also the purchaser must be capable of showing they are able to support themselves and if they have one a family. And they do not still live with mommy and daddy. And if they are taking prescription drugs having side effects of increased violent, suicidal and aggressive thoughts and behavior they relinquish their right to firearm possession until treatment and therapy is completed. And take those drugs off the market until ALL of the trial data is publicly available.
But leave me and my firearms out of the equation because I am NOT part of nor responsible for some nut cases personal problems and inability to cope and behave like a decent human being.
les green01
03-31-23, 08:28 PM
arm the teachers,arm us bus monitors,give me a means to protect my kids my high school kids can handle my 45 if i cash out,i know if i'm on the bus and hearing shots in school i'm going in arm or not but i want a chance to do damage,i lived my life let my kids lived theirs i guess if you guys hear me cash out in a shooting throw a wake on here
Onkel Neal
04-01-23, 08:50 AM
The basis is a culture of violence, a founding of that culture in and by violence, and a historical heritage of violence. Social and sociometrical and economical reasons cannot be separated from this, since they too base on these fundaments, in their typical national interpretation that makes the USA actually the USA and different fom other places.
America is addicted to violence, it has it in its genes and in its blood and bones.
I think that's a very broad and inaccurate generalization. Sounds clever, though. If we try, we can see other cultures have been the setting for extreme violence, too.
The everyday American is no more violent than anyone else. We do have an issue where our rights are being exploited by mentally ill people, most of whom should be in a treatment center, and an irresponsible news media, which capitalizes on these events to "sell papers".
We certainly do have an issue with our justice system, we seem to be way too permissive with offenders.
Not to mention the entertainment industry that is almost trivializing violence, turning it into an entertainment factor.
Yes, liberal Hollywood sells what the people want. Violent movies sell tickets, worldwide, though, not just in the US. (https://deadline.com/2023/03/john-wick-chapter-4-russia-shazam-global-intenational-box-office-1235310245/)
I do agree, these days it seems the writers and producers are too lazy to make good films, they just grab something with a gun a run with it.
Last time this happened I proposed raising the age to 21 to purchase a firearm. If under 21 they can join the military and the government can train them to be proper killers. Also the purchaser must be capable of showing they are able to support themselves and if they have one a family. And they do not still live with mommy and daddy. And if they are taking prescription drugs having side effects of increased violent, suicidal and aggressive thoughts and behavior they relinquish their right to firearm possession until treatment and therapy is completed. And take those drugs off the market until ALL of the trial data is publicly available.
But leave me and my firearms out of the equation because I am NOT part of nor responsible for some nut cases personal problems and inability to cope and behave like a decent human being.
I definitely disagree with with that first paragraph, Age of majority under Federal law is 18, if you are old enough to vote and exercise other Constitutional Rights then you should also be able to avail yourself of the 2nd amendment.
The 24th Amendment pretty that makes wealth a requirement for exercising a Constitutional right a moot point (ie: a poll tax and or property requirement).
Drug and mental issues are addressed in title 18 USC. prohibiting certain persons from owning or purchasing a firearm, and most states go further with restrictions not to mention the new fad of "Red Flag Laws". (which I'm not a fan of, as the potential for abuse is very high).
Maybe the answer is to start prosecuting gun violations rather than classifying them as "mutual combat" (reference to gang shooting in Chicago 2021) or pleading them down/dismissing them in court proceedings.
Rockstar
04-01-23, 05:32 PM
I definitely disagree with with that first paragraph, Age of majority under Federal law is 18, if you are old enough to vote and exercise other Constitutional Rights then you should also be able to avail yourself of the 2nd amendment.
The 24th Amendment pretty that makes wealth a requirement for exercising a Constitutional right a moot point (ie: a poll tax and or property requirement).
Drug and mental issues are addressed in title 18 USC. prohibiting certain persons from owning or purchasing a firearm, and most states go further with restrictions not to mention the new fad of "Red Flag Laws". (which I'm not a fan of, as the potential for abuse is very high).
Maybe the answer is to start prosecuting gun violations rather than classifying them as "mutual combat" (reference to gang shooting in Chicago 2021) or pleading them down/dismissing them in court proceedings.
A child having reached the age of majority (18 years) may currently purchase a firearm. I’m actually OK with that. My big concern is with attempting to prevent criminals like the Uvalde shooter from purchasing firearms. He was an irresponsible piece of trash going nowhere in life, living like a bum in his crackhead parents house with nothing else better to spend money on.
Reports suggest he had been previously arrested as a minor for planning a crime. Unfortunately a minors records are usually sealed. If he had to wait until 21 he would have a record that can be looked into. Either that make a minors arrest record available for background checks.
The age of license (21 years old) prohibits children from purchasing alcohol. I believe the same can be applied to the purchase of firearms.
A child having reached the age of majority (18 years) may currently purchase a firearm. I’m actually OK with that. My big concern is with attempting to prevent criminals like the Uvalde shooter from purchasing firearms. He was an irresponsible piece of trash going nowhere in life, living like a bum in his crackhead parents house with nothing else better to spend money on.
Reports suggest he had been previously arrested as a minor for planning a crime. Unfortunately a minors records are usually sealed. If he had to wait until 21 he would have a record that can be looked into. Either that make a minors arrest record available for background checks.
The age of license (21 years old) prohibits children from purchasing alcohol. I believe the same can be applied to the purchase of firearms. Ahh..... But you forget, the use of Alcohol is not a Constitutional right. There is a big difference.
As I understand it starting in June 2022, background checks do include Juvenile records, at least for 18-21 year-olds.
Rockstar
04-01-23, 06:57 PM
Maybe that’s the the case. In my opinion I see a difference between a right to bears arms and a right to purchase arms. Anyway, I’m gonna finish my meal now. :)
Maybe that’s the the case. In my opinion I see a difference between a right to bears arms and a right to purchase arms. Anyway, I’m gonna finish my meal now. :)
How does that work? there are 3 ways to acquire a firearm, as a gift, as a purchase, or steal it. seeing as stealing is illegal, and I don't see the Government "gifting" firearms to it's citizens. that leaves purchasing a firearm.
there are 3 ways to acquire a firearm, as a gift, as a purchase, or steal it.
You forgot one: make it yourself.
Rockstar
04-01-23, 09:51 PM
Or obtain one through an inheritance, have one gifted to you by a family member or just use one that belongs to your mom and dad when you go hunting or to the range. They can also join the military.
I don’t think there is any constitutional guarantee which demands a privately owned company must sell you a firearm.
Or obtain one through an inheritance, have one gifted to you by a family member or just use one that belongs to your mom and dad when you go hunting or to the range. They can also join the military.
I don’t think there is any constitutional guarantee which demands a privately owned company must sell you a firearm.
What kind of Logic salad is that?
The Supreme Court has ruled that an individuals right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right. District of Columbia vs. Heller:
the U.S. Supreme Court on June 26, 2008, held (5–4) that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess firearms independent of service in a state militia and to use firearms for traditionally lawful purposes, including self-defense within the home
You forgot one: make it yourself. not entirely, there are currently 7 states that require serial # registration for so called "ghost guns".
Last Year (I think it went into effect in Aug), the Biden Admin implemented the "Frame and receiver rule", that states all frames, and lower receivers must have serial #'s and buyers must pass background check.
Rockstar
04-02-23, 07:59 AM
What kind of Logic salad is that?
The Supreme Court has ruled that an individuals right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right. District of Columbia vs. Heller:
not entirely, there are currently 7 states that require serial # registration for so called "ghost guns".
Last Year (I think it went into effect in Aug), the Biden Admin implemented the "Frame and receiver rule", that states all frames, and lower receivers must have serial #'s and buyers must pass background check.
That’s right you have the right to keep and bear arms. Examples not to be limited too such as the transfer of a firearm(s) within the family through inheritance, supervised use by underaged within the family circle or sporting or competition events, a gift from a father to his son, or as SeanC suggested make your own like others do. All IMO satisfies the constitutional right. However in this country the firearms industry and businesses are not owned by the collective. The way I see it, they are privately owned by individuals exercising their right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the right to bear arms and are not required to sell you a damn thing if it’s not in their interests to do so. Just as your constitutional right to bear arms can not in any way compel me to sell you my firearms.
My argument was to open the criminal history no matter what stage in life a crime was committed before a purchase. Or raise the age to 21 so there was a record to check. According to you they finally did open minor age records to back ground checks. That’s a good thing imo.
The other was Red Flag the use of prescription drugs our ‘professionals’ hand out like candy which has been known for decades to have side effects of increased violent, suicidal, aggressive behavior. Any bets that most shooters were on the stuff when they tripped off line? Any bets the shooter in Nashville who was under care for mental health was taking anti-depressants? If they’re on the stuff they shouldn’t have a gun and dealers shouldn’t sell them one. I’d bet if anyone looked they would find a correlation between the rise in that prescription drug use and the rise in shootings and other violent behavior.
What ever the case they need to leave me and other law abiding mentally sound citizens and our firearms out of the argument.
My argument was to open the criminal history of a before a purchase no matter what stage in life a crime was committed. Or raise the age to 21 so there was a record to check. According to you they finally did open minor age records to back ground checks. That’s good.
The other was Red Flag use of prescription drugs they hand out like candy which has been known for decades to have side effects of increased violent, suicidal, aggressive behavior. Any bets that most shooters were on the stuff when they tripped off line? Any bets the shooter in Nashville who was under care for mental health was taking anti-depressants? If they’re on the stuff they shouldn’t have a gun and dealers shouldn’t sell them one.
What ever the case they need to leave me and my fire arms out of the argument.
Let's address that then, 37 million U.S. citizens take some form of prescription anti-depressant, 61 million citizens self medicate using drugs and/or alcohol. Admittedly, there is probably some overlap between the 2 groups. Be that as it may, you are advocating for stripping 1/3 of the population of a Constitutional right without due process on the chance they may break the law. That is anathema to the core tenets that this country was founded on. There is no way I can agree to something like that.
Rockstar
04-02-23, 10:19 AM
Let's address that then, 37 million U.S. citizens take some form of prescription anti-depressant, 61 million citizens self medicate using drugs and/or alcohol. Admittedly, there is probably some overlap between the 2 groups. Be that as it may, you are advocating for stripping 1/3 of the population of a Constitutional right without due process on the chance they may break the law. That is anathema to the core tenets that this country was founded on. There is no way I can agree to something like that.
Good point I agree I doubt it’s possible to track them all down anyway. But maybe it’s a good time to start having the information available to firearms dealers. Because who we sell firearms too does matter.
I think only 40% of those on prescription drugs have had significant degrees of increased in violent behavior. So not all have problems with it. But all it takes is one goof ball for everyone to get their panties in a bunch.
Another idea would be to make the drugs trial data publicly available, so people can make their own educated choices when it comes to taking that stuff. Hold the manufactures and prescribers of those chemicals responsible like they did for the opioid epidemic.
The biggest thing for me is for the extremists to leave me and other law abiding, sound minded citizens and our firearms out of the argument.
That information is already publicly available through the National Library of Medicine (est. 1836). That information is also included (albeit in truncated form) every time a prescription is filled.
The problem with this issue, is people are mistaking a symptom (gun violence) for a cause (human behavior), and are trying to eradicate the symptom without addressing the cause. which has never worked, not once, in the last 6000 years of civilization.
Rockstar
04-02-23, 12:39 PM
That information is already publicly available through the National Library of Medicine (est. 1836). That information is also included (albeit in truncated form) every time a prescription is filled.
The problem with this issue, is people are mistaking a symptom (gun violence) for a cause (human behavior), and are trying to eradicate the symptom without addressing the cause. which has never worked, not once, in the last 6000 years of civilization.
I should also add that even though the Second Amendment of the Constitution protects our right to bear arms, ownership is not unconditional. Making mental health information as well as a criminal record available to sellers is maybe one way to reduce sales to nut cases.
Look at Australia they didn’t ban firearms, in fact sales are booming. What they did was tighten up the criteria for ownership. Though reduced they have still have from time to time what are considered mass shootings it’s just not something you hear about unless you dig a little. Extremists would lead us to believe all firearms have been banned in Aussie land and mass shootings stopped since ‘96.
Honestly I really don’t have the answer how keep nut jobs from owning a firearm.
I never intimated that ownership be unconditional, most felonies, and some misdemeanors already preclude firearm ownership, as does some metal issues and medication use.
Now you want to curtail the 14th amendment on top of the 2nd. Just how many Rights do you want to deny citizens?
I can't be the only one wondering
How would your founding fathers have written the 2nd Amendment if they could see the American society today..with all the mass shootings
I'm convinced they would have put down the word differently.
Markus
They would not have. It was worded the way it was to put citizens on an equal footing with a standing army if needed.
Rockstar
04-02-23, 03:27 PM
I never intimated that ownership be unconditional, most felonies, and some misdemeanors already preclude firearm ownership, as does some metal issues and medication use.
Now you want to curtail the 14th amendment on top of the 2nd. Just how many Rights do you want to deny citizens?
As a seller, I’m not trying to deny anyone of their rights. But if you have mental health issues and are taking medications that may increase violent behavior. I know one thing, I sure as hell wouldn’t sell you a gun. I don’t care how much you cry about your constitutional rights. :yep: :03:
As a seller, I’m not trying to deny anyone of their rights. But if you have mental health issues and are taking medications that may increase violent behavior. I know one thing, I sure as hell wouldn’t sell you a gun. I don’t care how much you cry about your constitutional rights. :yep: :03:
But you are, you posted, and I quote:
Making mental health information as well as a criminal record available to sellers is maybe one way to reduce sales to nut cases. and that violates the 14th (ie: privacy) for everyone who wants to purchase a firearm. That requirement may even violate the 4th, 6th and 9th amendment, (that will depend on how your law is written)
Rockstar
04-02-23, 06:21 PM
Well that’s good because I just found some cool books on eBay from 1970 by Mary Jane Superweed called Herbal Highs. Can’t wait to try out some recipes.
Commander Wallace
04-03-23, 02:37 PM
I thought everyone might find this article of interest. Apparently, a robber entered O'Reilly's Auto Parts Store in Chicago and flashed a hang gun and demanded money from the register. Instead, the armed manager at the parts store shot and killed the would be robber.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/armed-store-manager-turns-tables-174835873.html
I thought everyone might find this article of interest. Apparently, a robber entered O'Reilly's Auto Parts Store in Chicago and flashed a hang gun and demanded money from the register. Instead, the armed manager at the parts store shot and killed the would be robber.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/armed-store-manager-turns-tables-174835873.html
I don't know if it's good or bad-where a person can kill another just because s/he is waving with a gun and threating.
Here in Denmark and Sweden you are allowed to neutralize a criminal so he no longer is a threat to you..This doesn't mean you are allowed to kill him. Well this has to be last thing.
Those times it have happened-The criminal had been neutralized but not killed and the police came and arrested the criminal.
I guess the owner had to kill the robber,'cause there wasn't any other way.
Markus
Commander Wallace
04-03-23, 03:07 PM
I don't know if it's good or bad-where a person can kill another just because s/he is waving with a gun and threating.
Here in Denmark and Sweden you are allowed to neutralize a criminal so he no longer is a threat to you..This doesn't mean you are allowed to kill him. Well this has to be last thing.
Those times it have happened-The criminal had been neutralized but not killed and the police came and arrested the criminal.
I guess the owner had to kill the robber,'cause there wasn't any other way.
Markus
Well, I'm sure this stupid individual trying to rob the store and brandishing a weapon wasn't collecting for the Red Cross unless it was a contribution for their blood bank. The standard was and remains, was the manager in fear for his life ? The robber took his chances and paid with his life. Case closed. The manager had a license to carry a concealed weapon and the weapon the would be robber used in this crime was recovered at the scene. The would be robber made a bad choice. That's not an attempt at being insensitive or short but just recognition that weapons in the hands of responsible individuals can in fact and do save lives and perhaps the lives of others.
I don't know if it's good or bad-where a person can kill another just because s/he is waving with a gun and threating.
Here in Denmark and Sweden you are allowed to neutralize a criminal so he no longer is a threat to you..This doesn't mean you are allowed to kill him. Well this has to be last thing.
Those times it have happened-The criminal had been neutralized but not killed and the police came and arrested the criminal.
I guess the owner had to kill the robber,'cause there wasn't any other way.
Markus
It's a bad thing (the rule of law is on hiatus) and the blame can be placed at the feet of "liberal policies", this kind of thing is what happens when you "defund" the police and have prosecutors that won't put criminals in jail. People realize that nobody is going to help them, so they take matters into their own hands. expect to see more of the same as crime rates rise, and prosecution rates fall.
Rockstar
04-03-23, 05:31 PM
It's a bad thing (the rule of law is on hiatus) and the blame can be placed at the feet of "liberal policies", this kind of thing is what happens when you "defund" the police and have prosecutors that won't put criminals in jail. People realize that nobody is going to help them, so they take matters into their own hands. expect to see more of the same as crime rates rise, and prosecution rates fall.
I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.
I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.
That is correct. Regardless of what it says on the sides of LAPD cruisers the Cops exist only to apprehend those who have violated the laws of the state.
I believe precedent was established by the U.S. Supreme Court which says cops do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone.
I didn't say that, or even intimate that idea. The Supreme court has ruled on various occasions that the police have no constitutional mandate to protect individuals (except when they are in custody). However it is clear that they are in place to protect society at large, and they do this in the following manner:
The duties of the police are to deter crimes through visible patrols, investigate crimes, collect evidence and to arrest those who commit crimes and aid in the prosecution of those persons.
Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see the correlation between fewer police + fewer prosecutions = more crime & criminals. and that results in more people fed up with the job the criminal justice system is doing.
You cant remove the fence around your cornfield and expect the cattle in the next pasture to stay out of it.
Rockstar
04-07-23, 12:13 PM
I didn't say that, or even intimate that idea. The Supreme court has ruled on various occasions that the police have no constitutional mandate to protect individuals (except when they are in custody). However it is clear that they are in place to protect society at large, and they do this in the following manner:
The duties of the police are to deter crimes through visible patrols, investigate crimes, collect evidence and to arrest those who commit crimes and aid in the prosecution of those persons.
Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see the correlation between fewer police + fewer prosecutions = more crime & criminals. and that results in more people fed up with the job the criminal justice system is doing.
You cant remove the fence around your cornfield and expect the cattle in the next pasture to stay out of it.
Oh I understand the correlation completely. I only mentioned it because I think it’s one more reason for law abiding citizens to own and carry a firearm.
Besides when seconds count cops are minutes away (at best).
Well here in Florida, We will now be able to carry right on our legs open. Just like Gunsmoke ole Matt Dillon.Hell ya.Ya see we have gang problem's hell just the other day a 12 year old shot somebody in the face.Murder straight up. If you go to the 7-eleven after dark.You can become dead. And this happens all the time within Orlando fl. If you get lost and are on country roads. And if your a tourist you better have your will made out before you get here. If a child shoot's you in the head, They will not be prosecuted. So come to Disney World bring your family and your money.Only 4 out of 15 have a bad experience. And english is not the language you may expect to hear.We are multicultural and some of them get violent if you can't speak their language.What the hell take a chance come to America while you can. Hell by the end of this summer we may look into the night sky and see beautiful rolling colours that look from a distance like the mushrooms i just consumed, because there's no beef or chickens or fish and chips left. Goddamnit if only my parents were movie stars or politicians.Life would be so good, only the piss ants will have to boot up and march forward for Democracy and wokeism the new religion, And die. After all that's how all the ruling families have stayed in power. WAR that's how they have done it for Decades.
Aktungbby
04-09-23, 11:11 AM
Besides when seconds count cops are minutes away (at best)....the average PD response time is 6 minutes at best-from my '73-'75 experience as graveshift Wells Fargo Alarm Svc. central station monitor, occasional dispatcher, and armed-guard responder.
...the average PD response time is 6 minutes at best-from my '73-'75 experience as graveshift Wells Fargo Alarm Svc. central station monitor, occasional dispatcher, and armed-guard responder.
well anymore, average response times depend on where you live, it ranges from about 5 min (Nashville Tn.) to 20 min (Los Angeles Ca.).
Onkel Neal
04-10-23, 08:01 AM
That is correct. Regardless of what it says on the sides of LAPD cruisers the Cops exist only to apprehend those who have violated the laws of the state.
Well, that in a sense is protecting and serving. ;)
Well here in Florida, We will now be able to carry right on our legs open. Just like Gunsmoke ole Matt Dillon.Hell ya.
Sure, you go right ahead and open carry, please, I love having you as the first target when a criminal decides to rob the IHOP we having breakfast in.
Sure, you go right ahead and open carry, please, I love having you as the first target when a criminal decides to rob the IHOP we having breakfast in. I find that attitude a bit counter-intuitive, I can't speak to other State's laws, but in Utah, open carry just means that you can carry a weapon in public (visible or concealed) without needing a permit. They still have a concealed carry permit system, but that is for the benefit of Reciprocity Laws for when Utah citizens travel to other states and wish to carry a weapon. So if I'm a bad guy robbing your Ihop, and see 1 or 2 pistols on some ones hip, I have to wonder how many are carrying pistols that I can't see. :03:
I find that attitude a bit counter-intuitive, I can't speak to other State's laws, but in Utah, open carry just means that you can carry a weapon in public (visible or concealed) without needing a permit. They still have a concealed carry permit system, but that is for the benefit of Reciprocity Laws for when Utah citizens travel to other states and wish to carry a weapon. So if I'm a bad guy robbing your Ihop, and see 1 or 2 pistols on some ones hip, I have to wonder how many are carrying pistols that I can't see. :03:
An interesting psychological approach.
A bad guy goes into a bar, where he look around and see at least two men with guns(open carry) he pull his gun from his belt and shot these two person first, then he looked around and see how people try to escape the crime scene. He start to fire his gun on people here and there, while they try to escape.
There are additional 3 more who carry gun openly-
Will they try to escape-Fear ?
Or
Would they take a stand and neutralize the perpetrator ?
Even though a person has the right to carry a gun openly in his or her state-Isn't the same as they wouldn't go into panic when someone starts to shoot wildly.
This is what some forget-the Psychological aspect of it.
Markus
An interesting psychological approach.
A bad guy goes into a bar, where he look around and see at least two men with guns(open carry) he pull his gun from his belt and shot these two person first, then he looked around and see how people try to escape the crime scene. He start to fire his gun on people here and there, while they try to escape.
There are additional 3 more who carry gun openly-
Will they try to escape-Fear ?
Or
Would they take a stand and neutralize the perpetrator ?
Even though a person has the right to carry a gun openly in his or her state-Isn't the same as they wouldn't go into panic when someone starts to shoot wildly.
This is what some forget-the Psychological aspect of it.
Markus
In your scenario you have criminal somehow able to find and identify three open carriers in a crowded bar. Then shoot all three of them before even one has time to fire back. Doesn't seem all that realistic to me and would require the criminal to have far more discipline than you credit legal firearm carriers with.
Can you list any innocent bystanders that were ever hit or killed by a legal firearms carrier while he is defending himself against a criminal? The way you talk it must happen every day so i'd be interested in seeing what must be a huge list of victims. You do know of some instances right?
In your scenario you have criminal somehow able to find and identify three open carriers in a crowded bar. Then shoot all three of them before even one has time to fire back. Doesn't seem all that realistic to me and would require the criminal to have far more discipline than you credit legal firearm carriers with.
Can you list any innocent bystanders that were ever hit or killed by a legal firearms carrier while he is defending himself against a criminal? The way you talk it must happen every day so i'd be interested in seeing what must be a huge list of victims. You do know of some instances right?
I know my English Grammar isn't perfect.
The story is a made up story
I wrote that he found two men with open carry while he looked around the first time and shot them first, he then toke another look and could see people rushing to the entré to get out-What he didn't see was that there was 3 more men with open carry.
The question is-How will they react, when the perpetrator starts to shoot wildly into the fleeing crowd ?
Secondly
There has been an another mass shooting, this time in Kentucky
Five people are dead after a gunman opened fire in a first-floor conference room of a bank in downtown Louisville, Kentucky, Monday morning, according to police.
Six additional victims, including a police officer, were transported to the hospital.
https://abc7chicago.com/active-shooter-louisville-ky-shooting-old-national-bank-downtown-today/13109212/
Markus
The question is-How will they react, when the perpetrator starts to shoot wildly into the fleeing crowd
And my question is when have you ever heard of that happening? There are many examples of an armed citizen stopping a crime in progress but I have yet to hear of any instances that back up your theory.
And my question is when have you ever heard of that happening? There are many examples of an armed citizen stopping a crime in progress but I have yet to hear of any instances that back up your theory.
Well then I was wrong in my made up story.
I was thinking that open carry wasn't the same as having cold blood in the vene.
I do understand that most of these people has trained in using their guns.
This mass shooting in Kentucky toke place in a state where:
Any person 21 years of age or older who can legally possess a firearm under State and Federal Law can carry a concealed handgun in the State of
Kentucky without a permit.
Markus
This mass shooting in Kentucky toke place in a state where:
Any person 21 years of age or older who can legally possess a firearm under State and Federal Law can carry a concealed handgun in the State of
Kentucky without a permit.
Markus
And previous killings have taken place in California which has the toughest gun control laws in the country. Not sure what point you are making here.
Otto Harkaman
04-10-23, 05:10 PM
Jan 21, 2023 California Monterey Park 12 Killed 9 Injured
Chinese Lunar New Year celebration. "man opened fire with a machine gun and stopped to reload." - witness; Related to 121 S Garfield Ave, Alhambra (non shooting) incident at Lai Lai ballroom suspect shot self in standoff in Torrance - Hawthorne and Sepulveda Blvd Gun assault pistol
Source:
https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/mass-shooting-report-monterey-park-draws-major-police-response
Jan 23, 2023 California Half Moon Bay 7 Killed 1 Injured
incident stemmed from his anger over a $100 equipment bill after wrecking a forklift
Source:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/names-of-victims-in-half-moon-bay-mass-shooting-released/ar-AA16Ki8X
Rockstar
04-10-23, 05:20 PM
An interesting psychological approach.
A bad guy goes into a bar, where he look around and see at least two men with guns(open carry) he pull his gun from his belt and shot these two person first, then he looked around and see how people try to escape the crime scene. He start to fire his gun on people here and there, while they try to escape.
There are additional 3 more who carry gun openly-
Will they try to escape-Fear ?
Or
Would they take a stand and neutralize the perpetrator ?
Even though a person has the right to carry a gun openly in his or her state-Isn't the same as they wouldn't go into panic when someone starts to shoot wildly.
This is what some forget-the Psychological aspect of it.
Markus
It is unlawful to bring a firearm into an establishment that serves alcohol, state or federal offices, court rooms and buildings. Since law abiding citizens would not have a firearm in a bar, that makes everyone in your bar scenario with a firearm bad guys and perpetrators. :yep:
Otto Harkaman
04-10-23, 05:23 PM
13 Mass shootings in California this year vs 1 in Kentucky, so far
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?sort=asc&order=State
Buddahaid
04-10-23, 06:12 PM
13 Mass shootings in California this year vs 1 in Kentucky, so far
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?sort=asc&order=State
Aren't you forgetting the school shooting? Also, California has almost nine times the population.
Aren't you forgetting the school shooting? Also, California has almost nine times the population.
But it has far more intrusive gun control. That tells me that it doesn't work.
Buddahaid
04-10-23, 07:45 PM
But it has far more intrusive gun control. That tells me that it doesn't work.
Maybe it does and it could be worse, how do you measure that? I'm not proposing to ban guns, but better regulation of that militia can't hurt.
em2nought
04-10-23, 07:55 PM
I have a strong suspicion that many of these mass shooters are actually anti-gunners serving themselves up as martyrs for their cause. :hmmm:
Buddahaid
04-10-23, 08:02 PM
Sounds like another conspiracy theory to deflect blame.
Sounds like another conspiracy theory to deflect blame.
No more farfetched than "Trump colluding with Russia" to get elected, right?
Maybe it does and it could be worse, how do you measure that? I'm not proposing to ban guns, but better regulation of that militia can't hurt.
The militia are already well regulated.
Of course you have to realize that the Bill of Rights term "Well Regulated" in 18th century parlance meant "Proficient" rather than the modern twisted interpretation attempting to justify ongoing government infringements.
Onkel Neal
04-11-23, 02:04 AM
I find that attitude a bit counter-intuitive, I can't speak to other State's laws, but in Utah, open carry just means that you can carry a weapon in public (visible or concealed) without needing a permit. They still have a concealed carry permit system, but that is for the benefit of Reciprocity Laws for when Utah citizens travel to other states and wish to carry a weapon. So if I'm a bad guy robbing your Ihop, and see 1 or 2 pistols on some ones hip, I have to wonder how many are carrying pistols that I can't see. :03:
If you're thinking that deeply odds are you aren't a criminal.
If you're thinking that deeply odds are you aren't a criminal.
How sure are you about that? :cool:
How sure are you about that? :cool:
You are thinking too deeply of course! :)
Onkel Neal
04-11-23, 01:37 PM
Louisville bank shooter legally bought an AR-15-style rifle 6 days before he used it to kill 5 colleagues, police say (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/11/us/louisville-kentucky-bank-shooting-tuesday/index.html)
Connor Sturgeon, 25, livestreamed the gruesome attack at Old National Bank on Instagram, officials said.
Raise the age of gun ownership to 30, have a mandatory 90 day waiting period for new buyers, and bar anyone who votes Democrat from gun ownership. I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks 80+% of these mass shooting are by lefties. Would love to see the voting stats on them.
The video begins by showing an AR-15-style weapon – often the choice weapon of US mass shooters – followed by a worker in the bank saying good morning to the gunman, the official said.
“You need to get out of here,” the shooter is heard saying to the woman on the livestream, which was taken down by Instagram’s parent company Meta.
The gunman then tries to shoot her in the back but can’t because the safety is on and the weapon still needs to be loaded, the official said. Once the shooter loads the weapon properly and takes the safety off, he shoots the worker in the back, the official said. Her condition is not known.
Newb. This not likely a long time gun owner, just a crazy millennial who craved attention.
I'm 100% ok with a ban on new sales of semi-auto rifles. I got mine. :haha:
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 01:45 PM
Louisville bank shooter legally bought an AR-15-style rifle 6 days before he used it to kill 5 colleagues, police say (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/11/us/louisville-kentucky-bank-shooting-tuesday/index.html)
Raise the age of gun ownership to 30, have a mandatory 90 day waiting period for new buyers, and bar anyone who votes Democrat from gun ownership. I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks 80+% of these mass shooting are by lefties. Would love to see the voting stats on them.
Newb. This not likely a long time gun owner, just a crazy millennial who craved attention.
I'm 100% ok with a ban on new sales of semi-auto rifles. I got mine. :haha:
The ranks of independents are swelling.
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 01:47 PM
The militia are already well regulated.
Of course you have to realize that the Bill of Rights term "Well Regulated" in 18th century parlance meant "Proficient" rather than the modern twisted interpretation attempting to justify ongoing government infringements.
Fine, so raise the bar for proficiency.
Onkel Neal
04-11-23, 01:56 PM
The ranks of independents are swelling.
Yeah, I could be wrong, that's just my impression. There certainly are a lot of racist ideological mass shooters, too.
Fine, so raise the bar for proficiency.
pro·fi·cien·cy
noun
noun: proficiency;
a high degree of competence or skill; expertise.
So how exactly does improving ones skill with firearms dissuade mass murderers? I mean other than having a crack shot cop or guard take the monsters out as they are shooting their way through the glass doors of a school, because we know you don't mean that!
A thought well more likely speculations
People in and outside USA say it has to do with the American mentality.
Is this true ?
How would it be like if we had same laws(2nd Amendment) I Germany, Denmark and Sweden.
I would say we could be witness to these mass shootings as well.
We are not free from these shootings-But here it's mostly gang related where one gang fire lots of shots into a crowd, to get one person.
How many gun, rifle or machine gun there is on the black marked I don't know.
Here it's almost impossible to get a gun bigger than an air rifle.
You have to be 18 or older to buy an air rifle
Markus
Onkel Neal
04-11-23, 04:10 PM
A thought well more likely speculations
People in and outside USA say it has to do with the American mentality.
Is this true ?
Markus
Probably. Though not all Americans have this mentality.
Skybird
04-11-23, 04:41 PM
"Culture" likely designates the limits within which the huge middle part of a normal distribution curve manifests itself with respect to a characteristic - in this case what is meant by "mentality". The upper and lower ends of that graph may lie outside these designation lines, indicating according lower shares of the total raw data.
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 05:40 PM
So how exactly does improving ones skill with firearms dissuade mass murderers? I mean other than having a crack shot cop or guard take the monsters out as they are shooting their way through the glass doors of a school, because we know you don't mean that!
You can't buy until you prove you know how to use it safely. That won't stop many killers but it will slow down the buy it today and shoot up the office tomorrow nuts.
Hell, I don't know August, but something needs to give because it doesn't work now.
Well, that in a sense is protecting and serving. ;)
Sure, you go right ahead and open carry, please, I love having you as the first target when a criminal decides to rob the IHOP we having breakfast in.
Well,If i knew i might be out gunned at the IHOP, I would look for easer pickins. Like somebody lookin to get some cash at the ATM. Possibly a Texan who just got his room key and has a 2 hands full of luggage. Ya baby your mine. Then again i might be the guy who saves your life. Look ya have to look around see what is happening in your community what is going on in the Village you live in.And if you want to travel to and thru another village you better know. As a over the road trucker you know this. I don't see why Florida's new law would bother you. Anyway why we have stand your ground laws in Florida is because if the news media would be honest about crime they would be called RACIST. The reason for this bill is Law enforcement is undergoing a new evolution and our Governor is allowing the citizen to use their common sense to protect themselves. If you don't get what i'm saying spend a night in Brownsville Texas.
You can't buy until you prove you know how to use it safely. That won't stop many killers but it will slow down the buy it today and shoot up the office tomorrow nuts.
Hell, I don't know August, but something needs to give because it doesn't work now.
The only thing that is going to stop mass murderers in the short term is hardening the targets. It's madness to declare a gun free zone that obviously attracts these killers without protecting the now defenseless people within it. Wolves are not stopped by stern signs ordering them to stay out of the pasture. You need physical barriers and guard dogs and it ain't racist to say it.
In the long term we need to stop glorifying these crimes. Both in the way we report on them and the way we promote bloody vengeance as a solution to life's injustices. Like 99% of action movies have that exact plot, a reflection of the concepts popularity. There are parts of our society so twisted that they even see these monsters as heroes to be admired and maybe emulated. We grew these people. Our culture is creating these monsters. We need to find a way to stop doing that.
The only thing that is going to stop mass murderers in the short term is hardening the targets. It's madness to declare a gun free zone that obviously attracts these killers without protecting the now defenseless people within it. Wolves are not stopped by stern signs ordering them to stay out of the pasture. You need physical barriers and guard dogs and it ain't racist to say it.
In the long term we need to stop glorifying these crimes. Both in the way we report on them and the way we promote bloody vengeance as a solution to life's injustices. Like 99% of action movies have that exact plot, a reflection of the concepts popularity. There are parts of our society so twisted that they even see these monsters as heroes to be admired and maybe emulated. We grew these people. Our culture is creating these monsters. We need to find a way to stop doing that.
What will stop this is public executions.Of those who commit and are found on video doing these crimes.Beyond the shadow of doubt.No need for a jury if their face and body is identifiable in video.Hell 4 years ago people were running around neighborhoods with mobile guillotines.
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 08:37 PM
What will stop this is public executions.Of those who commit and are found on video doing these crimes.Beyond the shadow of doubt.No need for a jury if their face and body is identifiable in video.Hell 4 years ago people were running around neighborhoods with mobile guillotines.
I think the spectacle of the guillotine is a huge step backwards for human civilization since death penalties have no impact on those who expect to die. It's only for survivor blood lust, and does nothing to stop the problem.
I think the spectacle of the guillotine is a huge step backwards for human civilization since death penalties have no impact on those who expect to die. It's only for survivor blood lust, and does nothing to stop the problem.
Hell i disagree it works very well in middle east countries. Or haven't you looked. ?
They don't seem to have the multiple school shootings in their countries or any multiple shootings since the US has left. And they just have a man/women that will just swing a sword.
Now the whole world knows the Colombians introduced the Chain Saw.That makes the guillotine obsolete. Right, no Wrong it was the Colombians .In 1983 in a shower stall in a motel in Miami. Yes and i think the people would love it.
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 09:30 PM
The US is not anywhere near those countries, and hopefully, will never be. Theocracy, even though some like Lauren Boebert try to make it happen ignoring the first amendment, will never happen.
The US is not anywhere near those countries, and hopefully, will never be. Theocracy, even though some like Lauren Boebert try to make it happen ignoring the first amendment, will never happen.
Forget the amendments, When you pull into the 7-11 parking lot after dark do you really think anyone knows how to spell amendment? must less know what it means ? Tell me where you live, I'm looking.
What will stop this is public executions.Of those who commit and are found on video doing these crimes.Beyond the shadow of doubt.No need for a jury if their face and body is identifiable in video.Hell 4 years ago people were running around neighborhoods with mobile guillotines.
I think you're too focused on some kind of revenge trip yourself Gorpet. How would the threat of a public execution have worked with the last two massacres? Neither perp survived the incident which was their intent going in.
These people crave fame or infamy, it makes no difference which to them. That's why they make their crimes as heinous as possible. To stop them we have to change that somehow.
I think you're too focused on some kind of revenge trip yourself Gorpet. How would the threat of a public execution have worked with the last two massacres? Neither perp survived the incident which was their intent going in.
These people crave fame or infamy, it makes no difference which to them. That's why they make their crimes as heinous as possible. To stop them we have to change that somehow.
All the perps. Had to have support.Don't you agree ?
Or were they homeless Orphans ?
And i will make this very simple. I was born in the late 50's. My parents were responsible for anything and everything any crimes that resulted in property damage and physical damage to another human being that i commited until i was of age at that time it was 21
Now if i wanted to elevate my parents of that burden and be a bad ass on my own ,The French Foreign Legion was the correct choice or so ,I thought well guess what i couldn't get a passport out of the US. So i had to stay and except my future at the whims of the politicians.Now all these years later not one Democrat or Republican ever pass anything that helped me i'm always just above a minority level and have been fore years. Now it's just flat out if your a young white man it's your turn to take the backseat. Your female family belongs to the community
Buddahaid
04-11-23, 10:07 PM
Forget the amendments, When you pull into the 7-11 parking lot after dark do you really think anyone knows how to spell amendment? must less know what it means ? Tell me where you live, I'm looking.
Never! Don't talk to me about your 2nd Amendment rights then! You don't respect the Constitution of the USA with that statement so what does that make you?
All the perps. Had to have support.Don't you agree ?
Or were they homeless Orphans ?
So now you're talking about guillotining their friends and relatives too? Well why stop there Herr Untersturmfuhrer? Why not level their neighborhoods and maybe even their home towns too? That'll teach them.
One thing though. Most of these animals hate their families and they tend not to have friends. You think killing the people they hate is going to dissuade them?
Never! Don't talk to me about your 2nd Amendment rights then! You don't respect the Constitution of the USA with that statement so what does that make you?
Smarter than you, When was the last time you were in a 7-11 after dark in America.Let's pick a time say 3:am? or will you tell me 1 there are no 7-11 where you live. Or your to smart to go out after midnight.
So now you're talking about guillotining their friends and relatives too? Well why stop there Herr Untersturmfuhrer? Why not level their neighborhoods and maybe even their home towns too? That'll teach them.
One thing though. Most of these animals hate their families and they tend not to have friends. You think killing the people they hate is going to dissuade them?
Oh ,Damn do we have old teacher here ? Untersturmführer! I think we could apply that to plenty of Professor's in today's political and educational arena. couldn't we ? And i would have to Question as always the deep roots of where a tree grows. Right.
Oh ,Damn do we have old teacher here ? Untersturmführer! I think we could apply that to plenty of Professor's in today's political and educational arena. couldn't we ? And i would have to Question as always the deep roots of where a tree grows. Right.
So I'll take that as a yes then.
Onkel Neal
04-12-23, 08:23 AM
You can't buy until you prove you know how to use it safely. That won't stop many killers but it will slow down the buy it today and shoot up the office tomorrow nuts.
Hell, I don't know August, but something needs to give because it doesn't work now.
I agree, been a lot of those type lately.
The only thing that is going to stop mass murderers in the short term is hardening the targets. It's madness to declare a gun free zone that obviously attracts these killers without protecting the now defenseless people within it. Wolves are not stopped by stern signs ordering them to stay out of the pasture. You need physical barriers and guard dogs and it ain't racist to say it.
In the long term we need to stop glorifying these crimes. Both in the way we report on them and the way we promote bloody vengeance as a solution to life's injustices. Like 99% of action movies have that exact plot, a reflection of the concepts popularity. There are parts of our society so twisted that they even see these monsters as heroes to be admired and maybe emulated. We grew these people. Our culture is creating these monsters. We need to find a way to stop doing that.
Yes, August. Definitely need to stop the publicity. Most people are curious and like to read about these events, myself included, and we collectively need to stifle the attention these events get.
So I'll take that as a yes then.
No, why do we not have wall to wall coverage on the Massachusetts bank killing ? is that to close to home ?
Or is it not supposed to happen in your homeland ? why is it being suppressed ? Comon man we know the truth. I know it sucks when it happens don't it
Oh those yankees so perfect and yet so flawed. They can't stand it LOL
And we will never find out why this young man did what he did, They have scrubbed all of his social media as usual , He wasn't taking his drugs, and somehow he slipped thru the cracks got a great job. And just went crazy For unknown reason. Right! Or he realized the collage cool aid was just that, and his future was at the back of the buss. We will never know.
And this young man will never have to face the Guillotine. Will he ? yes reality is a hard smack in the face isn't it ?
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