View Full Version : Gunman kills 19 children, 2 adults in Texas grade school
It should have been written this way
The following weeks after the mass shooting un Uvalde Texas Danish and Swedish tv had some reporters in that state and the answer they got from ordinary Texan gave me the impression that there are some American who value the 2nd Amendment more than a life.
Markus
Rockstar
06-08-22, 10:44 AM
I value both the Constitution AND life. I worked in Galena Park, TX for three years does that count?
The problem lies not with guns or the 2nd amendment the problem is with the few people who do not value their own or another’s life. Some say to change that it starts in the home, with a father, a mother. None which Salvador Ramos had.
https://youtu.be/5ep8-3GerU4
https://i.imgur.com/9ZObbTIh.png
Commander Wallace
06-08-22, 09:21 PM
It should have been written this way
The following weeks after the mass shooting un Uvalde Texas Danish and Swedish tv had some reporters in that state and the answer they got from ordinary Texan gave me the impression that there are some American who value the 2nd Amendment more than a life.
Markus
Being that you reside in Denmark, I don't blame you that you may have a distorted perception of the U.S . With few exceptions of violence, perpetrated by disturbed individuals, we value all life. Unfortunately, it's those exceptions and those horrible individuals that get the headlines. Why is that ? Simple. Bad news travels fast, grabs the headlines and sells newspapers.
Whenever a disaster, earthquake, tsunami's, etc hits a country, it's usually the U.S that is one of the first countries to respond. In a number of documented cases, people from the U.S have left their jobs, families and positions to travel to another country experiencing a disaster to render aid and expertise. How many other countries do that ?
With regards to weapons, I notice it's rarely if ever reported that an armed homeowner or someone with a concealed carry license protected his home and or family from an armed intruder or intervened to protect a police officer that was being attacked with a legally owned and carried weapon.
If you watch the news or read the papers, armed cowards attack soft targets like grade schools and the like where they know an armed response isn't likely. Responsible, armed citizens make poor targets. Why you ask ? Quite simply, armed cowards such as what we are talking about don't want to attack a school, institution or home where they know there is a good chance of their fire being returned and an armed response is a certainty. In the case of the Uvalde school shootings, there were inexcusable break downs of protocols.
Before you say the U.S doesn't value life, you should perform your due diligence in ascertaining the facts and look at the big picture and our collective history. I understand your perception of the U.S is being filtered through various news outlets that may well have an agenda and so, you may not have a clear picture. I would ask that your analysis be based on the facts and not hype.
Ostfriese
06-09-22, 12:03 AM
Whenever a disaster, earthquake, tsunami's, etc hits a country, it's usually the U.S that is one of the first countries to respond. In a number of documented cases, people from the U.S have left their jobs, families and positions to travel to another country experiencing a disaster to render aid and expertise. How many other countries do that ?
Almost all Western countries.
If you watch the news or read the papers, armed cowards attack soft targets like grade schools and the like where they know an armed response isn't likely. Responsible, armed citizens make poor targets. Why you ask ? Quite simply, armed cowards such as what we are talking about don't want to attack a school, institution or home where they know there is a good chance of their fire being returned and an armed response is a certainty. In the case of the Uvalde school shootings, there were inexcusable break downs of protocols.
Then why is this a US-only problem and not a problem of the nations with very few armed citizens? And as far as I remember there have been several school shootings in which the "coward" knew perfectly well that there could and would be armed resistance, yet he still went on. I even remember one shooting in which the perpetrator wore some kind of armor (have to look up which shooting it was).
The main point remains: between 2009 and 2018 the US had 288 school shootings. The other G7 nations had 5 (five) combined, and these six nations have a combined population of 435 million people, about one third more than the US.
Commander Wallace
06-09-22, 04:06 AM
[/SIZE]
Almost all Western countries.
Then why is this a US-only problem and not a problem of the nations with very few armed citizens? And as far as I remember there have been several school shootings in which the "coward" knew perfectly well that there could and would be armed resistance, yet he still went on. I even remember one shooting in which the perpetrator wore some kind of armor (have to look up which shooting it was).
The main point remains: between 2009 and 2018 the US had 288 school shootings. The other G7 nations had 5 (five) combined, and these six nations have a combined population of 435 million people, about one third more than the US.
I hardly think all western countries provide assistance after disasters and certainly not at the levels the U.S does. If you are saying otherwise, then please provide the resources from a reputable information clearing house so that your sources can be checked and verified. Just out of curiosity, where do you live ? I think we would all like to know that. If not the U.S, then where are you getting your information ?
With regards to the shootings and the armed coward knowing there would be resistance, how can you possibly know what someone else ( the shooter ) was thinking ? This is a ridiculous statement and a fantasy on your part. Again, if you think you are right, please provide some documentation to the contrary that you know exactly what the shooters in these events were thinking. I also noticed that you highlighted coward in your post so as to say this armed individual wasn't a coward to target innocent children. Can you clarify what that means or meant ?
While you are on the subject, I think we would all be interested in your solutions as well.
The main point remains: between 2009 and 2018 the US had 288 school shootings. The other G7 nations had 5 (five) combined, and these six nations have a combined population of 435 million people, about one third more than the US.Your data is skewed period.
I was terrible wrong by accusing every American and for that I'm so sorry.
Heck we have daily shooting here in Denmark and Sweden as well. But here it is gang related shootings. There is also a lot of stabbing especially here in Denmark. Mass Shooting is rare last time was, in Norway some decades ago.
Markus
Commander Wallace
06-09-22, 09:58 AM
I was terrible wrong by accusing every American and for that I'm so sorry.
Heck we have daily shooting here in Denmark and Sweden as well. But here it is gang related shootings. There is also a lot of stabbing especially here in Denmark. Mass Shooting is rare last time was, in Norway some decades ago.
Markus
Relax Markus. It's all good. As I had mentioned, because you live in Denmark, The only contact you have with the U.S is here and through various media outlets. Those media outlets can be slanted, biased or be pursuing a hidden agenda.
Right now, It's more important to try to put safe guards In place for our most vulnerable citizens and children.
Skybird
06-09-22, 10:23 AM
Your data is skewed period.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country
19 Countries with the Most School Shootings (total incidents Jan 2009-May 2018 - CNN):
United States — 288
Mexico (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mexico-population) — 8
South Africa (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/south-africa-population) — 6
India (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/india-population) — 5
Nigeria (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/nigeria-population) & Pakistan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/pakistan-population) — 4
Afghanistan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/afghanistan-population) — 3
Brazil (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/brazil-population), Canada (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/canada-population), France (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population) — 2
Azerbaijan (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/azerbaijan-population), China (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/china-population), Estonia (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/estonia-population), Germany (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population), Greece (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/greece-population), Hungary (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/hungary-population), Kenya (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/kenya-population), Russia (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/russia-population), & Turkey (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/turkey-population) — 1
In brief: The US has had over 6 times more school schootings then the next 18 countries together.
Heard in our news
House passes gun bill doomed to fail in the Senate.
Didn't get what the bill consist of-I got that minimum age will be changed from 18 to 21. and some more regulations.
Is it the content in this bill that will make some Senators voting against it or does these Senators per automatic vote against every thing who are coming from Dem or Rep. ?
Markus
Ostfriese
06-09-22, 01:22 PM
I hardly think all western countries provide assistance after disasters and certainly not at the levels the U.S does. If you are saying otherwise, then please provide the resources from a reputable information clearing house so that your sources can be checked and verified. Just out of curiosity, where do you live ? I think we would all like to know that. If not the U.S, then where are you getting your information ?
I am German and live in Germany, but I have lived in Northern Ireland during the final years of The Troubles and the early phase after the Good Friday Agreement.
From the German perspective: the "Technisches Hilfswerk" (literally technical help service), a federal service, has served in all major crises in the last 30 years world wide. That's just one of the many services and organisations that have provided assistance internationally. Medical and social assistance in a broad variety has been provided by Organisations like the Red Cross, the Johanniter (Order of St. John), Malteser International and may others. German volunteer firefighters have taken time of their jobs to help in other contries, most recently in Ukraine.
A similar list can be put up for any Western European nation.
American help is all good and well, but there's no basis to the claim that only the Americans are the good samaritans and no one else is.
With regards to the shootings and the armed coward knowing there would be resistance, how can you possibly know what someone else ( the shooter ) was thinking ?
How can you?
And there's far more that must be attributed to a person than just cowardice. Many people are cowardish, many people are afraid for a wide variety of reasons, and the overwhelming majority of those would never even think of running into a school and gunning down whoever comes across. You could have used "video game player" instead of coward, and it would have been equally misleading and incomplete.
While you are on the subject, I think we would all be interested in your solutions as well.
Solutions? If I knew the solution I'd be filthy rich in no time. A complex problem requires a complex solution. A major overhaul of the society would help, but there's no need to tell me that's basically impossible - I know.
Limiting access to guns in a certain way (age? more rigid and more consequential background checks?) would definitely help and is possible without a prohibition and the realization of the American angst "they want to take my gun!". To my knowledge there's a vast majority of Americans who would support a limitation to access, even among the hardcore gun owners.
A limitation will not be the long term solution, but would definitely give relief and will save children's lives.
Not electing politicians who do nothing but incite hatred among people might also help a lot, but I'm brutally honest here: your political system is *********d.
Heard in our news
House passes gun bill doomed to fail in the Senate.
Didn't get what the bill consist of-I got that minimum age will be changed from 18 to 21. and some more regulations.
Is it the content in this bill that will make some Senators voting against it or does these Senators per automatic vote against every thing who are coming from Dem or Rep. ?
Markus
It is some of both actually. Partisan House bill with unacceptable provisions will get a partisan rejection in the senate. At least that is the theory.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country
[I]In brief: The US has had over 6 times more school schootings then the next 18 countries together.
Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.
Commander Wallace
06-09-22, 06:14 PM
I am German and live in Germany, but I have lived in Northern Ireland during the final years of The Troubles and the early phase after the Good Friday Agreement.
From the German perspective: the "Technisches Hilfswerk" (literally technical help service), a federal service, has served in all major crises in the last 30 years world wide. That's just one of the many services and organisations that have provided assistance internationally. Medical and social assistance in a broad variety has been provided by Organisations like the Red Cross, the Johanniter (Order of St. John), Malteser International and may others. German volunteer firefighters have taken time of their jobs to help in other contries, most recently in Ukraine.
A similar list can be put up for any Western European nation.
American help is all good and well, but there's no basis to the claim that only the Americans are the good samaritans and no one else is.
How can you?
And there's far more that must be attributed to a person than just cowardice. Many people are cowardish, many people are afraid for a wide variety of reasons, and the overwhelming majority of those would never even think of running into a school and gunning down whoever comes across. You could have used "video game player" instead of coward, and it would have been equally misleading and incomplete.
Solutions? If I knew the solution I'd be filthy rich in no time. A complex problem requires a complex solution. A major overhaul of the society would help, but there's no need to tell me that's basically impossible - I know.
Limiting access to guns in a certain way (age? more rigid and more consequential background checks?) would definitely help and is possible without a prohibition and the realization of the American angst "they want to take my gun!". To my knowledge there's a vast majority of Americans who would support a limitation to access, even among the hardcore gun owners.
A limitation will not be the long term solution, but would definitely give relief and will save children's lives.
Not electing politicians who do nothing but incite hatred among people might also help a lot, but I'm brutally honest here: your political system is *********d.
I never said that only the U.S is good and provides everything and no one else does. I did say that the U.S goes to extraordinary lengths including providing man power to help alleviate the effects of natural disasters and the like. If you had read my previous post, you would know that I said that it is usually the U.S who is among the first to respond, not the only country. I suggest you re-read my post. The aid I mentioned was within the context that the U.S does care about human life. It wasn't about who does what and how much. Again, this is your narrative and not what I said.
You have contradicted yourself. You said the active shooter or coward knew perfectly well that there could and would be armed resistance, yet he still went on. Then you say, how could you know that ? That's exactly my point. You don't know anything at all about this shooting except what you read. You don't have a clue. In for an American court of law, you should expect to be admonished by a judge for stating what you think or what you believe in a court proceeding. It's what you can prove and demonstrate.
Further, anyone who guns down an innocent child is far worse than a coward. I couldn't care less what you choose to call them.
However, with regards to your “ solutions , I do see some merit to them and what you have stated. To be fair and honest, I have been interested in how Germany and the U.K and other countries deal with things. I have no idea how well they would translate to American society or if certain aspects could be viably incorporated and implemented into the U.S. Anyone involved in the legal system knows that the U.S courts and courts in the U.K routinely cite each others cases are part of case law to establish precedents ( stare decisis )
Skybird
06-09-22, 06:18 PM
Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.
Sure. And bullets are not round, teens do not think about sex, and things are not meant to be.
The Gun Violence Archive gets quoted with saying that in 2019 alone, by your widened definition of all mass shooting events (by Congress definition with 3 or more kills excluding the perpetrator or 4 kills including the perpetrator), may it be due to drugs, gangs or amok runs, there were 419 such events. In one year.
Buddahaid
06-09-22, 06:20 PM
Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.
So? Does that mean they didn't happen?
No, but it is disingenuous to try and make them comparable to the shooting in Texas.
Buddahaid
06-09-22, 11:07 PM
No, but it is disingenuous to try and make them comparable to the shooting in Texas.
That's true, but the potential for incidental deaths makes them little less of a threat to someone's child and no less part of the whole problem. I own guns I would like to keep (all of them better than 75 years old) so I'm not anti gun, but the toll is getting ridiculous. I'm pissed the Democratic House passed a bill they all know will fail instead of passing something that would have a chance of addressing part of the problem and pass. Yes, I know, still...
Rockstar
06-09-22, 11:09 PM
That's true, but the potential for incidental deaths makes them little less of a threat to someone's child and no less part of the whole problem. I own guns I would like to keep (all of them better than 75 years old) so I'm not anti gun, but the toll is getting ridiculous. I'm pissed the Democratic House passed a bill they all know will fail instead of passing something that would have a chance of addressing part of the problem and pass. Yes, I know, still...
:up:
I’ll also add there isn’t anything that can’t be handled at the State level.
Buddahaid
06-09-22, 11:43 PM
:up:
I’ll also add there isn’t anything that can’t be handled at the State level.
I have few hopes for better vision. The power of compromise has become a lost misunderstood tool.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country
[I]In brief: The US has had over 6 times more school schootings then the next 18 countries together.
Well ****,Americans are learning about tribalism.Right? Look our society is a one parent tribe. And that falls on the mother,And today she gets an income.Because here in America a man will not put his name on that birth certificate and no woman if she want's income on many levels will name a father. Hell the day's of a woman naming a father and him admitting to it are long gone. Buy an Xbox get internet GTA as the first game and turn them loose . And tattoos and piercings are the rage from your groin to your ears.And when mom starts getting her income and they can feed themselves. Life is very good in America.The taxpayers pay from cradle to their eventual grave.Really all they have to do is get their kids ass in kindergarten and they have the whole day free forever.
And if an American women can plan her children out in years. All she will have to worry about is when she can get in to have her nails done and her hair colored or a weave the taxpaying tribe pays for it. Oh and of course if a father should stop by for the night and want the Snap card and some cash on his way out before the sun comes up she may tell you she hit her eye on a door knob on the way to the Loo.,As he is heading to his next baby's mama! Well that has caused some problems in the working man's community. But they get reminded.That their daughter is contributing to the diversity of the planet and she will also bring home some food stamps and eventually another baby for the New Year. Yi Pi Ki Ya
That's true, but the potential for incidental deaths makes them little less of a threat to someone's child and no less part of the whole problem. I own guns I would like to keep (all of them better than 75 years old) so I'm not anti gun, but the toll is getting ridiculous. I'm pissed the Democratic House passed a bill they all know will fail instead of passing something that would have a chance of addressing part of the problem and pass. Yes, I know, still...
The AR-15 is 66 years old. Not quite as old as your antiques but still old enough to start collecting social security.
Rockstar
06-16-22, 07:59 AM
The AR-15 is 66 years old. Not quite as old as your antiques but still old enough to start collecting social security.
Methinks a firearm manufactured 50 or more years ago is classified a Curio & Relic. Every once in awhile you can find a pretty nice 20mm anti-tank rifle from WWII for sale at an online auction house . :D
I’m sure most shooters with just an ounce of common sense would agree that age or aesthetics don’t have a damn thing to do with it’s lethality. It’s the complete lack of humanity, morals, respect for life, and responsibility of the wielder.
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/julia/49/279649/H0019-L14293407.jpg
Rockstar
06-16-22, 09:24 AM
https://youtu.be/AH7JULjyJZU
Methinks a firearm manufactured 50 or more years ago is classified a Curio & Relic. Every once in awhile you can find a pretty nice 20mm anti-tank rifle from WWII for sale at an online auction house . :D
I’m sure most shooters with just an ounce of common sense would agree that age or aesthetics don’t have a damn thing to do with it’s lethality. It’s the complete lack of humanity, morals, respect for life, and responsibility of the wielder.
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/julia/49/279649/H0019-L14293407.jpg
Ya know, it just seems strange of all the happening's that are starting to occur.I think the world as a whole needs a more deadlier virus.Cov19 just wasn't strong enough. I scratch my head, Millions of people died without a bullet ever being fired or a bomb dropped.And as bad as it was why weren't old age Politicians across this Planet dying? My neighbors died my friends died my 28 year old niece was given up for dead and her parents were told to make arrangement. Yet the oldest Most vulnerable Politician's and their family's survived only Allah knows how their older grandparents and siblings survived there must have been hundred's of them. How did they survive?
I can only assume that another deadlier outbreak is yet to come,I am 64 and was in good health. It's lungs that it attacks and cuts the oxygen to your whole body.What the hell ya can't destroy whole cities like in WW2 . Rebuilding those cities took Decades. So knock out the old and the infirm , If this planet is to survive and I'm ok with that but i think my contribution should be worth a world cruse.The Gov. can gas every passenger in their rooms. 72 hrs before the ship hits the dock.
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