View Full Version : Why should we support the Leaders of Ukraine
I for one would like to know who the leaders of the Ukraine Government are.And their backgrounds. Who are these people? And what kind of lifestyles did they live before the war? Are they and their families fighting to stay in power.Did they do everything they could do to enhance the everyday lives of their citizens before the war?
And How will they rebuild after this war? When all their youngest men have been killed? You know all their trades people put down their tools and picked a gun yes they are the first ones to stand For a Flag,Will it be National Pride or for a family of rulers? That could give a **** about you or your family as long as they and their children survive. Haven't we wrote books about this in our history?
What do you think pheasants? It's your money that gives them real Freedom
Skybird
05-19-22, 04:35 AM
^ Distraction. Currently does not matter. First things first: come back after the Russians are out.
Well, seems Gorp loves his Putin. :-?
Cyborg322
05-19-22, 11:17 AM
I for one would like to know who the leaders of the Ukraine Government are.And their backgrounds. Who are these people? And what kind of lifestyles did they live before the war? Are they and their families fighting to stay in power.Did they do everything they could do to enhance the everyday lives of their citizens before the war?
And How will they rebuild after this war? When all their youngest men have been killed? You know all their trades people put down their tools and picked a gun yes they are the first ones to stand For a Flag,Will it be National Pride or for a family of rulers? That could give a **** about you or your family as long as they and their children survive. Haven't we wrote books about this in our history?
What do you think pheasants? It's your money that gives them real Freedom
Putin did a book I think its was called First Person a kind of updated version of Mein Kampf
astvitaliy1982
05-19-22, 03:35 PM
Well, seems Gorp loves his Putin. :-?
Nobody likes Putin more than you guys on this site)))
Might suggest you amend that to 'some guys.'
Might suggest you amend that to 'some guys.'
The only I support is the Ukrainian people and it's military who is fighting to survive an unprovoked invasion.
Markus
Commander Wallace
05-19-22, 10:47 PM
Nobody likes Putin more than you guys on this site)))
You're talking out of your rear end. Putin and Russia is liked so much that the Ukraine is the recipient of billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid mostly from the U.S. :Kaleun_Mad: Other countries are sending military aid as well. This has enabled the Ukraine To fight Russia and Putin to a virtual standstill. Weapons from the U.K and Turkey have played also played decisive roles as well. This says nothing of former military personnel from the U.S, U.K, India and many other countries that are fighting alongside the Ukrainians against Russia.
If you want to create your own narrative of the war in the Ukraine separate from the established facts, don't do it here. We all know better.
Buddahaid
05-19-22, 11:06 PM
You're talking out of your rear end. Putin and Russia is liked so much that the Ukraine is the recipient of billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid mostly from the U.S. :Kaleun_Mad: Other countries are sending military aid as well. This has enabled the Ukraine To fight Russia and Putin to a virtual standstill. Weapons from the U.K and Turkey have played also played decisive roles as well. This says nothing of former military personnel from the U.S, U.K, India and many other countries that are fighting alongside the Ukrainians against Russia.
If you want to create your own narrative of the war in the Ukraine separate from the established facts, don't do it here. We all know better.
I do think you responded to a jest.
Commander Wallace
05-19-22, 11:19 PM
I do think you responded to a jest.
I took it the wrong way then. The suffering there in the Ukraine and climbing death tolls of innocent civilians is a bit much to take on a daily basis and we aren't even there. I can't imagine how it is to have lived in the Ukraine and deal with all this carnage. My apologies to everyone and especially astvitaliy1982 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=399869) If in fact I took it the wrong way, as you said.
I certainly thought the same way as you CW, but I think it was still in bad taste! :hmmm:
astvitaliy1982
05-20-22, 12:47 AM
Might suggest you amend that to 'some guys.'
I apologize. I didn't mean you. You put the question very correctly. Who are these people who run Ukraine. In 2014, people from the armies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the DPR communicated with each other by radio, warned each other about the beginning of shelling, and much more. No one wanted to fight each other. Then provocateurs began to appear. These were platoons of incomprehensible people in black uniforms on cars from Privatbank from Ukraine. They did terrible things on both sides of the front. If you don't believe me, you can watch videos on the Internet for 2014-2015, for example from the city of Volnovakha.
Buddahaid
05-20-22, 12:59 AM
Pheasants for Phutin
Please help.
astvitaliy1982
05-20-22, 01:04 AM
You're talking out of your rear end. Putin and Russia is liked so much that the Ukraine is the recipient of billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid mostly from the U.S. :Kaleun_Mad: Other countries are sending military aid as well. This has enabled the Ukraine To fight Russia and Putin to a virtual standstill. Weapons from the U.K and Turkey have played also played decisive roles as well. This says nothing of former military personnel from the U.S, U.K, India and many other countries that are fighting alongside the Ukrainians against Russia.
If you want to create your own narrative of the war in the Ukraine separate from the established facts, don't do it here. We all know better.
I think no weapon in the world will help solve the conflict in Ukraine. Even if the weapons are from America, England, Turkey, Europe, even if they are spears and bows, they will not solve the problem of Ukraine. In fact, I have seen with my own eyes how quickly this conflict can be resolved through a truce.(at least to start with this) At this moment, absolutely all weapons fall silent, in one minute!!! I mean, when the authorities of countries really need peace, this issue is resolved very quickly.
astvitaliy1982
05-20-22, 01:43 AM
Aktungbby, I understand that you are a big fan of Putin, but this is a topic for another post. Read carefully the title of this post and write on the topic.
Catfish
05-20-22, 03:01 AM
Nobody likes Putin more than you guys on this site)))
Now this made me chuckle, but maybe exchanging "likes" with "being obsessed with" would hit the mark :03:
Regarding what happened in 2014 and before maybe this might help you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
Russia has been running over its neigbours since a thousand years, its history does not begin with "2014", or "1945".
Commander Wallace
05-20-22, 07:12 AM
I think no weapon in the world will help solve the conflict in Ukraine. Even if the weapons are from America, England, Turkey, Europe, even if they are spears and bows, they will not solve the problem of Ukraine. In fact, I have seen with my own eyes how quickly this conflict can be resolved through a truce.(at least to start with this) At this moment, absolutely all weapons fall silent, in one minute!!! I mean, when the authorities of countries really need peace, this issue is resolved very quickly.
I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, Russia will not honor any kind of a truce. A truce with Russia means giving up pieces of your country. That was tried with Hitler and it didn't work then and won't now.Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said absolutely not and of course, he is right. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Zelenskyy understands that. Others here in Subsim including Jimbuna and the world over have said it was a mistake to let Putin go as far as he did in 2014 with Crimea. It would be really hard to argue against that statement. Letting Putin go then only emboldened him to want more.
Ironically, a comedian is running the affairs of your country- and all things being equal, doing it well, all things considered. Zelenskyy has been called the Winston Churchill of his generation. That's quite a compliment. To be frank, Russia wants your country and what you have. If they can't have it, they will destroy it. You and your countrymen in the Ukraine would have a better understanding of the issues your country has. To be fair, every country has it's issues including the U.S
From the standpoint of those who are lucky enough to have democratic fundamentals in their respective governments- resolving those issues starts with self determination which the Ukrainian people are fighting for and deserve. I may not be realistic but I believe with the grit and determination and resolve exhibited and demonstrated by the Ukrainian people, Ukraine will rebuild and perhaps better than it was. I think that the Ukrainian people have proved to themselves what they are made of and have a clear picture of where they want to lead their country. :yep:
I certainly thought the same way as you CW, but I think it was still in bad taste! :hmmm:
Thanks Reece but I'm sure I probably over reacted. With different cultures from all over the world here in Subsim, it's easy to lose things in translation :yep: With all the senseless carnage and loss of life we are seeing in the Ukraine-on both sides, it's hard to not get riled up and upset. This is a good reason I hardly ever comment on the subject. All of us have said in one way or another the same things and feel the same way and just as upset as the other. :yep:
Catfish
05-20-22, 02:03 PM
[...] No one wanted to fight each other. Then provocateurs began to appear. These were platoons of incomprehensible people in black uniforms on cars from Privatbank from Ukraine. They did terrible things on both sides of the front. If you don't believe me, you can watch videos on the Internet for 2014-2015, for example from the city of Volnovakha.
This is where you are wrong. The provocateurs came from Russia.
"Declaring the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR, respectively), armed Russian-backed separatist groups seized government buildings throughout the Donbas, leading to armed conflict with Ukrainian government forces.[36]"
It is in the Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
and it is here with evidence:
https://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/23/anti-volnovakha-horrible-killing-of-civilians-by-russian-terrorists-in-donetsk/
Words and books are harmless unless one reads them, alright, but please give it a chance.
The "bus incident" tragedy was a bombing done by Russia, and there is evidence.
"DNR “authorities” promptly blamed Ukrainian forces for the attack, stating that it was a 82-mm mortar. At the same time, the location of the tragedy is about 15 km from Ukrainian army positions, and it is outside the mortar range."
And so on, it is exactly like it always is with russian media.
They say the "enemy plans" or "the enemy has committed" atrocities while they did or do it themselves, in a preemptive try to blame it all on someone else and so conserve the "truth" or better their view on things before someone else can.
To have the first "grasp" trying to make it "real", with making it public first.
This is maskirovka and has nothing to do with reality. Don't fall for it.
Skybird
05-20-22, 03:19 PM
Catfish is right there. :up: Thats how I recall events and reports back then, too. After the elections the elected president betrayed the Ukrainians (especially in the centre and west of it) on the promise he made and for which he was elected: to bring the Ukraine closer to Europe and the EU, instead he suddenlyx started to try bringing it under Moscow'S infleunce,and so people started to chase him a way. Russia saw its mission to bind Ukraine to itself in danger and started secret service and destabilising operations to mess up the situation in the Ukraine and making the democratic pro-Western opposition responisble for it. Interestingly at the beginning fo the current war now there were reprts or rumours that the same ex president Yanukovich was planned by Putin to get reinstated as Moscow's puppet after Kyiv was conqeured on day 5 at the latest and Selensky and the current government were murdered. According death lists were known to have been out, and Wetsenr intel sevrices were who saved Selsnky repeatedly after killer commandos ands special ops troops infiltrating Kyiv got very close to him.
Putin justfied the second Chechnya war with the violence conducted by "chechyan terrorists", but the terror attacks on Russian soil and in Russian towns in fact were operations of his own secret service. Putin never shied away form killing people in huge numbers if that served his interest - even his own people - and then lying over it. The second Chechnya war and the way the Russians wiped out Grosny, passes the legal criteria for genocide as laid out in the anti genocide convention. Thats why I say his war crimes in the Ukraine are already his second genocide. And I tend to think that the Russian intervention in Syria also qualifies for that description.
Russian cruelty against civil population - foreogn and own - always is intentional and tries to maxismise the terror. Its the direct opposite of Western military paradigms of the modern present. It has a long history reaching back already centuries before Stalin's terror regime. In fact there were even worse terror lords in Russian history than just Stalin. The Ruzssian way of war is not detemrination, but it simply is intended terrorising of the civil population. Its wanted, and has nothing to do with just detmernation in combating the enemy military. Its not "collateral damage", because collateral damage means civilian losses that are not aimed for and are not planned for and are not deliberately intended. Thats what is the difference between collateral damage, and massacring civilians. A massacre never is just collateral damage.
astvitaliy1982
05-20-22, 04:11 PM
Guys... Who killed the "Heavenly Hundred" in Kiev? Who were these murdered people? What pills were distributed on Independence Square? Where was the SBU during the Maidan shootings? Who is Dmitry Yarosh? What is the "Right Sector"? Who is the Azov battalion? Why has the police mission in Donbas turned into a military one? Read the terms of Ukraine's accession to the EU. (2013-2014) And please! You don't need to tell me about freedom and democracy.
Look at the video of Odessa on May 2, 2014! Watch the video from Lugansk on May 2, 2014. Watch the video Lugansk on June 2, 2014.
Your Ukrainian heroes grabbed a 6-year-old girl and poured mounting foam into her genital organ! This child died in terrible agony! Here on Volnovakha. Your heroes kidnapped a student and gave him to his mother in parts, because she didn't have the money to pay the ransom! Near Khartsizsk.
astvitaliy1982
05-20-22, 04:14 PM
Your Mariupol heroes killed civilians in this city a month ago. They were not allowed to leave through a safe corridor! A sniper from the roof first kills a mother and then her little daughter, at the moment when they were trying to escape from the shelling to a safe place!
My stories are unfortunately real. They're not from TV, like yours. And I know exactly who did it. It wasn't Putin.
Commander Wallace
05-20-22, 04:24 PM
Your Mariupol heroes killed civilians in this city a month ago. They were not allowed to leave through a safe corridor! A sniper from the roof first kills a mother and then her little daughter, at the moment when they were trying to escape from the shelling to a safe place!
My stories are unfortunately real. They're not from TV, like yours. And I know exactly who did it. It wasn't Putin.
Given that Skybird and Catfish do a lot of research on what they write, I would believe them over someone with an agenda.
Catfish
05-20-22, 05:13 PM
Your Mariupol heroes killed civilians in this city a month ago. They were not allowed to leave through a safe corridor! A sniper from the roof first kills a mother and then her little daughter, at the moment when they were trying to escape from the shelling to a safe place!
My stories are unfortunately real. They're not from TV, like yours. And I know exactly who did it. It wasn't Putin.
So what did the russian "liberators" do, at Azovstal just a few days ago?
"Amid a flurry of diplomatic activity in Moscow and Germany, a fresh wave of civilian deaths were reported across eastern Ukraine as Vladimir Putin’s forces escalated their barrage of key targets on Tuesday and appeared to renege once again on giving safe passage to women and children.
Petro Andryushchenko, an adviser to the mayor of Mariupol, the besieged port city on the Sea of Azov where the remaining Ukrainian forces and civilians have been hiding out in a steel works, said the latest attempt to get people out had failed.
Andryushchenko claimed that agreement on a humanitarian corridor out of the Azovstal steelworks had proven to be a “trap”, with Russian forces firing their artillery on the exit zone just moments after announcing through loudspeakers that a green corridor had been opened.
[my edit: Swines.]
Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, meeting the UN secretary general in Moscow, dismissed Ukraine’s proposal to stage peace talks in the port city, saying it was a “theatrical gesture” and “they probably wanted another heartrending scene”.
Russia’s apparent flouting[!] of the agreement for a humanitarian rescue of civilians trapped in Mariupol came amid increased efforts to push on in the east of Ukraine.
Pavlo Kyrylenko, the governor of the Donetsk region, reported that two people had been killed and six others wounded as “Russians continue to deliberately fire at civilians and to destroy critical infrastructure”."
Or, to make it short, your claim that ukrainian fighters or snipers shot at their own people during efforts to get them out is complete and utter bullsh!t. Not that it plays a role among all those other russian lies.
re the "heavenly hundred" wtf do you think happened? There is even a museum honouring them explaining exactly how they were killed, why, and who.
Where is the one russian official version, different narratives contradict each other on a daily basis, one side does not know what the other just said anymore. The russian disinformation campaigns take a toll on their own narrative and propaganda.
P.S: another small incident showing Russia's involvment
"Viktor Yushchenko was Poisoned in 2004 while Running Against Russia’s Preferred Candidate Yanukovych"
https://miningawareness.wordpress.com/2022/02/27/icymi-viktor-yushchenko-was-poisoned-in-2004-while-running-against-russias-preferred-candidate-yanukovych/
Jeff-Groves
05-20-22, 06:39 PM
So there are Scum of the Earth on both sides. (Apologies to actual Scum of the Earth).
This thread is like talking about the Crusades. What Religion was right and which was wrong is a point of view.
It boils down to what you believe. Me? I believe I'll have another Beer!
In the end? Who ever Wins will be "In the Right". That's how it works.
Rockstar
05-20-22, 08:35 PM
Look at any war throughout history and there are always ALWAYS civilian casualties. One way to prevent such things is to not invade other countries with weapons of war in the first place and go around blaming the other guy.
Catfish
05-21-22, 05:20 AM
So there are Scum of the Earth on both sides. (Apologies to actual Scum of the Earth). [...].
As one of the actual scum of the earth i feel offended. I threaten you with a worldwide thermoclear war if you interfere while i crush my neighbour :haha:
What [...] was right and which was wrong is a point of view.
In this thread maybe. Coming to real reasons, this is not about liberating a suppressed people, this is a russian war of conquest, so no need to blame nazis or evil or Godzilla.
Hell, even the russian own propaganda departments are contradicting themselves.
Stop excusing why Russia was forced and had to do this and that, look at what happens now.
Apologies to actual Scum of the Earth
Jim resembles that remark!! :timeout:
Skybird
05-21-22, 06:15 AM
Look at any war throughout history and there are always ALWAYS civilian casualties. One way to prevent such things is to not invade other countries with weapons of war in the first place and go around blaming the other guy.
Civilian casualties and victims of intended murder are not the same. Collateral damage and massacres are not the same.
Just to clarifiy this difference.
Jimbuna
05-21-22, 06:51 AM
Jim resembles that remark!! :timeout:
https://i.postimg.cc/QNbnD3ZD/smacka-1.gif (https://postimages.org/)
Originally Posted by Reece https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2809611#post2809611)
Jim resembles that remark!! :timeout:
https://i.postimg.cc/QNbnD3ZD/smacka-1.gif (https://postimages.org/)
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
Jimbuna
05-21-22, 07:47 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/VsdKbHSQ/36-5-8.gif (https://postimages.org/)
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
Just a reminder my friend
People get keelhauled for less.:D
Markus
Commander Wallace
05-21-22, 09:50 AM
Your Mariupol heroes killed civilians in this city a month ago. They were not allowed to leave through a safe corridor! A sniper from the roof first kills a mother and then her little daughter, at the moment when they were trying to escape from the shelling to a safe place!
My stories are unfortunately real. They're not from TV, like yours. And I know exactly who did it. It wasn't Putin.
If you truly believe what you are saying, please present some evidence or a link to an investigation that is currently underway that is exploring your accusations against Ukraine. Certainly, there are those that are investigating atrocities that would be very interested in any documentation that you have. You claim to know who committed these atrocities in the Ukrainian military forces so the question is, what have you done about it ?
So there are Scum of the Earth on both sides. (Apologies to actual Scum of the Earth).
This thread is like talking about the Crusades. What Religion was right and which was wrong is a point of view.
It boils down to what you believe. Me? I believe I'll have another Beer!
In the end? Who ever Wins will be "In the Right". That's how it works.
Well you are right,Jeff but for 40 billion in our aid. I want to know about Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky and every single person in that government. Every night on every news channel in America. I want to know who they are and what their past is i want to know!.We get Johnny and Amber's most secret " Who gives a ****" Bubble life. But maybe a nuke around the corner and we don't even know the people that our politicians are willing to sacrifice our lives and countries for. That's how it works ? I guess it's good to be an Ant.Ant's never know a human when a human will step on them and snuff im out.
Buddahaid
05-21-22, 11:34 PM
Well you are right,Jeff but for 40 billion in our aid. I want to know about Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky and every single person in that government. Every night on every news channel in America. I want to know who they are and what their past is i want to know!.We get Johnny and Amber's most secret " Who gives a ****" Bubble life. But maybe a nuke around the corner and we don't even know the people that our politicians are willing to sacrifice our lives and countries for. That's how it works ? I guess it's good to be an Ant.Ant's never know a human when a human will step on them and snuff im out.
Well then do your own research.
As one of the actual scum of the earth i feel offended. I threaten you with a worldwide thermoclear war if you interfere while i crush my neighbour :haha:
In this thread maybe. Coming to real reasons, this is not about liberating a suppressed people, this is a russian war of conquest, so no need to blame nazis or evil or Godzilla.
Hell, even the russian own propaganda departments are contradicting themselves.
Stop excusing why Russia was forced and had to do this and that, look at what happens now.
Hell Catfish, I think it was and is a European problem and The Americans should stay out of it.
Well then do your own research.
You tell me why the Americans should should be involved in this war. ?
Buddahaid
05-21-22, 11:45 PM
You tell me why the Americans should should be involved in this war. ?
Because the US is involved in world trade and has an intrest in keeping that profitable.
Rockstar
05-21-22, 11:59 PM
You tell me why the Americans should should be involved in this war. ?
Hegemony
Because the US is involved in world trade and has an intrest in keeping that profita.
Is that the best answer you have? Every country on this planet is trying to be profitable to keep their social programs from collapsing. Again i ask you the same Question. Why should Americans be involved in this war?
Catfish
05-22-22, 05:02 AM
I want to know about Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky and every single person in that government. Every night on every news channel in America. I want to know who they are and what their past is i want to know! [...] maybe a nuke around the corner and we don't even know the people that our politicians are willing to sacrifice our lives and countries for?
As Budda has said, do your own research. For a majority of people it is obvious, but there's a lot on the 'net, about Zelensky and all the way down to 2007 when Putin changed and indeed announced his intentions on this war, and other wars coming.
Even on geman TV there was a 2-hour long report about Zelensky's past, accusations about corruption, russian and ukrainian propaganda and all that.
Maybe stay away from "Russia Today", "Alex Jones Info wars" and "Fox News".
The fury will rise, but at least the the confusion will drop :D
As Budda has said, do your own research. For a majority of people it is obvious, but there's a lot on the 'net, about Zelensky and all the way down to 2007 when Putin changed and indeed announced his intentions on this war, and other wars coming.
Even on geman TV there was a 2-hour long report about Zelensky's past, accusations about corruption, russian and ukrainian propaganda and all that.
Maybe stay away from "Russia Today", "Alex Jones Info wars" and "Fox News".
The fury will rise, but at least the the confusion will drop :D
Cnn news is my lifeline.
Cybermat47
05-26-22, 06:58 AM
Well, one side in this war is an imperialist proto-fascist dictatorship that has committed numerous atrocities (such as child rape) and has threatened other countries.
The other side in this war is fighting to keep rapacious invaders out of its land.
I don't need to say anything else, do I?
Bubblehead1980
05-26-22, 07:05 AM
Well, one side in this war is an imperialist proto-fascist dictatorship that has committed numerous atrocities (such as child rape) and has threatened other countries.
The other side in this war is fighting to keep rapacious invaders out of its land.
I don't need to say anything else, do I?
Nailed it:Kaleun_Salute:
Nailed it:Kaleun_Salute:
Yeah, but he was being sneaky about it. :haha:
That blade is supposed to cut in both directions, depending on your point of view. :03:
My bottom line, nice countries don't invade their neighbors. :yep:
Cyborg322
05-29-22, 05:01 AM
Guys... Who killed the "Heavenly Hundred" in Kiev? Who were these murdered people? What pills were distributed on Independence Square? Where was the SBU during the Maidan shootings? Who is Dmitry Yarosh? What is the "Right Sector"? Who is the Azov battalion? Why has the police mission in Donbas turned into a military one? Read the terms of Ukraine's accession to the EU. (2013-2014) And please! You don't need to tell me about freedom and democracy.
Look at the video of Odessa on May 2, 2014! Watch the video from Lugansk on May 2, 2014. Watch the video Lugansk on June 2, 2014.
Your Ukrainian heroes grabbed a 6-year-old girl and poured mounting foam into her genital organ! This child died in terrible agony! Here on Volnovakha. Your heroes kidnapped a student and gave him to his mother in parts, because she didn't have the money to pay the ransom! Near Khartsizsk.
Heavenly hundred was the work of Yanukovych's security forces Ukraine's pro-Russian former president. So what's your point ? Other comments highly distorted or untrue as far as I can see found no evidence to confirm what you say where is the source of your info ? RT Channel ? There is no justification for this illegal war whatsoever.
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