Kilo class submarine

[Kapitan]

I have toyed with doing this one for a while given the current situation between Russia and Ukraine hence why I have focused on some other subjects.

But I figured there is a lot to tell with this submarine and after sitting on the desktop for a few weeks I decided to publish it.

I have included in the article some detailed information about the Sonar system as well as pictures of the Alrosa Pump jet in its broken down stages during a refit, so you will get to see the rotor and stators.

Thoughts and comments always welcome

Enjoy :Kaleun_Salute:

https://www.navygeneralboard.com/project-877-project-636-the-kilo-class/

[Catfish]

Nice article once more, by you. Especially interesting in context to the five (?) Kilos being deployed in the black sea right now.
They are certainly targeting Ukraine, but maybe they left harbour because a) the destruction of surface ships by Neptun missiles and drones, and b) being in reach of the blue spear system supposedly to be delivered from Israel..:hmmm:

I wonder how Ukraine could detect them now, take it they will snorkel at night only.

[Skybird]

Who says it is only the Ukraine detecting them? :hmmm: Many more powers are lurking in the shadows... :D


Nice article, Kap, and nice oictures. Never saw them in such detail before. And why do these Russian subs always look so rotten even when still being in service?


You are a Brit, arent you? How comes you served on a Polish boat? Some exchange training program?

[Commander Wallace]

Excellent article Blair, as usual. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:



Diesel electric submarines still have a role to play.

[mapuc]

Excellent article Blair, as usual. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:



Diesel electric submarines still have a role to play.

The New Swedish Sub A26 has 3 diesel and 3 Stirling engines (2 diesel and 2 Stirling engines)

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

The New Swedish Sub A26 has 3 diesel and 3 Stirling engines (2 diesel and 2 Stirling engines)

Markus


Awesome, Markus. :up:


I will look it up and it's specs but it's hardly a surprise. The Swedes have excellent military industries. Saab Is at the forefront, especially in the aerospace industries.

[Kapitan]

Nice article once more, by you. Especially interesting in context to the five (?) Kilos being deployed in the black sea right now.
They are certainly targeting Ukraine, but maybe they left harbour because a) the destruction of surface ships by Neptun missiles and drones, and b) being in reach of the blue spear system supposedly to be delivered from Israel..:hmmm:

I wonder how Ukraine could detect them now, take it they will snorkel at night only.

Thanks Catfish, there are currently 7 kilos in the Black sea fleet 6 are active B871 Arosa the lone project 877V is currently in maintenance.

B871 Alrosa, B261 Novorossiysk, B271 Kolpino, B268 Vilikiy Novgorad, B262 Starry Oskol, B265 Krasnodar, B237 Rostov on don

Sevastopol is within range of Ukrainian forces for sure so bringing them back to some where like Novorossiysk would be a good move.

So far only Moskva has been sunk by Neptun the others were damaged by other means, we also know the Makarov is undamaged and currently sailing.

But leaving port could also be a sign they are preparing to fire kalibr and klub missiles which wouldn't be too far fetched as the 636.3 are able to do this.

Don't forget there's no threat to them when at sea so why not use the assets in that environment.

[Skybird]

^ Also known as "Blekinge class". 2 units under construction. No doubt these boats will be awesomely silent. But the programme is behind timetable, and costs are rising. The outstanding featuzre will be the capability to launch drones and fire weapons from them, so that the submarine itself remains fully stealthed even when firing.

[Kapitan]

Who says it is only the Ukraine detecting them? :hmmm: Many more powers are lurking in the shadows... :D


Nice article, Kap, and nice oictures. Never saw them in such detail before. And why do these Russian subs always look so rotten even when still being in service?


You are a Brit, arent you? How comes you served on a Polish boat? Some exchange training program?

Thanks Skybird

You want to see ours when they come into dry dock after a few years a float, the scum ring and growth is normal, more so in the salty cool waters of the Baltic and Northern areas, the Black sea has a high salinity rate as well so corrosion is also a lot worse in these areas.

I am a Brit yes I currently live in Canada, my day job back then was logistics transport and supply chain I would conduct audits put in place all the supply chain systems and what not and during an exercise I was asked to go on the Orzel and take a look at the systems they employ in their logistics, how they handle food fuels munitions etc.

Its quite a common thing been on various ships and subs from various navies doing the same thing, basically its there to oversee the employment of procedures and to see if there is a more efficient and effective way.

[mapuc]

Awesome, Markus. :up:


I will look it up and it's specs but it's hardly a surprise. The Swedes have excellent military industries. Saab Is at the forefront, especially in the aerospace industries.

Here's Page about the sub from FMV-Defence Material Office

https://www.fmv.se/projekt/ubat-a26/

Markus

[Kapitan]

Excellent article Blair, as usual. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:



Diesel electric submarines still have a role to play.

Thanks CW they certainly do although I think in future we will be moving more towards the AIP set up

[Kapitan]

The New Swedish Sub A26 has 3 diesel and 3 Stirling engines (2 diesel and 2 Stirling engines)

Markus

Think this might be a typo but the latest A26 has a very much updated stirling engine one that will be quieter than the current fit in the Gotland class.

The Gotlands are nice boats ideally designed for the region they operate and while the Belkinge class is also a good boat Export wise I don't see them getting many orders outside the Baltic simply because its not really designed for blue water work like the Kilo Victoria or even the Type 212.

[Commander Wallace]

Thanks CW they certainly do although I think in future we will be moving more towards the AIP set up


That certainly seems to be the trend and has distinct advantages. Countries that can't afford or have no need for nuclear propulsion submarines can still field effective submarines with AIP propulsion systems. AIP can also be used in conjunction with diesel electric propulsion systems as well.


Here's Page about the sub from FMV-Defence Material Office

https://www.fmv.se/projekt/ubat-a26/

Markus


Thanks for the information, Markus.

[Kapitan]

Thats the current trend for Canada and conventional boats certainly have many advantages over the Nukes.

[mapuc]

Think this might be a typo but the latest A26 has a very much updated stirling engine one that will be quieter than the current fit in the Gotland class.

The Gotlands are nice boats ideally designed for the region they operate and while the Belkinge class is also a good boat Export wise I don't see them getting many orders outside the Baltic simply because its not really designed for blue water work like the Kilo Victoria or even the Type 212.


As it says in on the fmv homepage about A26.

The A26 will be able to operate world-wide, but is optimized for shallow waters such as the Baltic Sea. In practice, this means that the A26 can carry out transit over larger seas and then have its area of ​​operation close to the coast.

Compared to the Kilo class which one of them is best ?

Or is it so you can't compare them since Kilo is build to operate in deep water like the Atlantic and the Swedish Sub A26 is build for operating near coast.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Great article Blair.

The Kilo has certainly proven to be a true low cost/value for money design and will be around for quite a while yet.

[Kapitan]

As it says in on the fmv homepage about A26.



Compared to the Kilo class which one of them is best ?

Or is it so you can't compare them since Kilo is build to operate in deep water like the Atlantic and the Swedish Sub A26 is build for operating near coast.

Markus

Yeah I see that on the page but to me it doesn't read right I'm curious is it a 6 engine plan or a 4 engine plan or both in different hulls ?

It may just be me and the way I'm reading it


Overall the A26 I would say is going to be superior to the Kilo especially in littoral waters such as the Baltic and North sea, however the Kilo will have a better deep water capability and this from the site leads me to that conclusion.

but is optimized for shallow waters such as the Baltic Sea. In practice, this means that the A26 can carry out transit over larger seas and then have its area of ​​operation close to the coast.

Swedish boats operate at certain depths and from being on HMSwS Uppland a while ago I was a little bit confused at first as to why the boat goes as deep as stated by the indicators

[Kapitan]

Great article Blair.

The Kilo has certainly proven to be a true low cost/value for money design and will be around for quite a while yet.

Thanks Jim much appreciated

[Catfish]

Maybe of interest here, Kilo Rostov-na-Donu transits Istanbul towards Black Sea - Feb 13, 2022



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgBHfRW-ZY




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsd5TKAHNA8




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7p5qd3yYHk

[Rockstar]

I have a couple of questions how long can the subs that left Sevastopol remain at sea? And what ever happened to those Russian supply boat(s) that left PACAREA and we’re supposedly heading to the Med? Did they make it into the Black Sea and can they be used as sub tenders?

[Catfish]

I have a couple of questions how long can the subs that left Sevastopol remain at sea?
46 days it is said.
And what ever happened to those Russian supply boat(s) that left PACAREA and we’re supposedly heading to the Med? Did they make it into the Black Sea and can they be used as sub tenders?
First part i do not know, there were some "rescue" vessels entering the black sea before the war began ad they could be used as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ZVO4NWmpQ

On the other hand it is not necessary, they have Sevastopol. Though a well-aimed ukrainian Neptun would do the trick ... I guess Ukraine would be able to hit a surfaced ship, but submerged? They would need a navy, or long-range planes and helicopters for a search.
I wonder if a Global Hawk drone like Forte11 would be able to spot a snorkeling Kilo.

Back to the OP, did not want to divert, i do not know what happened to the russian supply boats – anyone?

[Kapitan]

I have a couple of questions how long can the subs that left Sevastopol remain at sea? And what ever happened to those Russian supply boat(s) that left PACAREA and we’re supposedly heading to the Med? Did they make it into the Black Sea and can they be used as sub tenders?

The Kilo on standard configuration considering food stuffs and stores for a normal patrol 45 days, however war time conditions you could probably get 90 or so out of it.

Most of our boats can do 90 comfortably yet during the Falkland's when the store for war order came about a lot more was taken onboard, think it was conks that did 128 without re supply, I have heard one of our V boats during the pandemic did a 150 day stint.

As for the amphibs no one has heard from them for a while, as for sub tenders no they cant be used as sub tenders but there there is no need, with the Black sea closed off the Kilos can transfer to Novorossysk to re supply, they can also operate under normal transit conditions as the Ukraine doesn't have a navy that can reach them the other side of the Black sea.

Thanks catfish I have seen quite a few videos on the Kilo they are great boats, I know combat approved is Russian state TV but they did a series called Black sea fleet which included Rostov on Don, and theres also a dedicated episode to the Kilo herself.

[mapuc]

The sub isn't it only the half of it ? Where the crew is the other half.

Markus

[Kapitan]

The sub isn't it only the half of it ? Where the crew is the other half.

Markus

Not sure I follow what your meaning is

[mapuc]

Not sure I follow what your meaning is

Been thinking and came to the conclusion that my question was wrong-No country would let a group of newbies take control over a modern sub.

The crew on a Kilo Class submarine is well trained and so is the crew on a modern American submarine.

Markus

[Kapitan]

Theres always new people on submarines but overall yes they wont be crewed by total new comers

[mapuc]

Theres always new people on submarines but overall yes they wont be crewed by total new comers

This made me remember a series where you followed some young submariner candidate, Where they attend some Submarine school in Norfolk(I think it was)

Remember also they had to learn every little thing on the sub and where it was located.

Markus

[Kapitan]

Don’t think I have seen that one but it would be interesting to watch

As crew yes you do have to know every inch of the boat

One of the exercises they do on the British boats is to get you in a mask with a cover over the glass and then you got to work your way from one compartment to another using the BIBS (Built In Breathing System)

That’s a pipe that runs throughout the boat and you connect to it to receive air during an emergency

I will try and dig up a couple of pictures

[mapuc]

Don’t think I have seen that one but it would be interesting to watch

As crew yes you do have to know every inch of the boat

One of the exercises they do on the British boats is to get you in a mask with a cover over the glass and then you got to work your way from one compartment to another using the BIBS (Built In Breathing System)

That’s a pipe that runs throughout the boat and you connect to it to receive air during an emergency

I will try and dig up a couple of pictures

Since I can't remember the title I had to make a lot of search on yt and I found this series

Submarine School is a 2011 4 part documentary series which follows five submariners as they undergo a tough training scheme as they prepare to become RN Nuclear Sub Commanders. This is Episode 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dZBNFFaDkY

The Series I saw was in a school where they trained fire on board, Water leak and many other disaster that could happen on a sub.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I will try and dig up a couple of pictures

Quickest and simplest imho Blair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built-in_breathing_system

[Kapitan]

This one shows using the BIBS system during a fire exercise on HMS Torbay

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/51246077352/in/album-72157719407158023/

I don’t think I’ve seen the one you posted from sub school I shall give it a watch

[mapuc]

Done lots of search again on yt this time with the search word Submarine school and basic submarine school.

I found this and it made me recall some scenes from the..well maybe it wasn't a serie but one 50 minute long documentary about these aspirants.

Here it is...It made me recall some of the scenes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qt7dyhB-jg&t=7s

Markus

[Kapitan]

Ahhh yes I have seen this one it was a great documentary, there is also another one called submarine sharks of steel done around the same time.

[Platapus]

That was a nice documentary. Thank you for posting it.


Are the uniforms, and the crew, that clean after a few weeks?

[Kapitan]

That was a nice documentary. Thank you for posting it.


Are the uniforms, and the crew, that clean after a few weeks?

On a nuke boat yes, they have a laundry onboard, probably the most expensive washing machine and dryers in the world :haha:

On the Kilos and some other diesel boats they have disposable working clothes which absorb sweat so you dont stink as much.

[Platapus]

Thank you

[Kapitan]

Blind mans bluff is a good documentary which highlights the submarine world, in the first two portions it shows you the limitations of diesel boats note the USS Cochino and USS Gudgeon incidents.

While conventional submarines are very good at what they do they certainly have some limitations.

The other side to that is conventional especially the Kilos are affordable by nations whos defense budgets are not as big as some of the major players, The Kilo can offer a 2nd or 3rd rate navy the ability to force multiply as well as increasing their capabilities ten fold with regards to ISR SIGNIT ELINT and covert operations.