President Zelensky

[Gorpet]

Well, Damn the British has offered this man and his government a place in exile on the british taxpayer dollar.That sneaky Boris! And then the American President Joe was finally woke up and found out Boris was 24 hrs ahead of him and there were shockwaves through the Democrat party. Why, This man has the hard drives hidden somewhere that could topple the western governments.And what's really pissing governments off is,He's not leaving he say's i will go down fighting for my country. You fuc=ks prommised me when the time was right and enough money was laundered thru to your countries Ukraine and the families that carry your secret's would be accepted.Into yourNATO And for our collaboration you stab us in the back. Welcome President Zelensky to the game of Thrones.

[Aktungbby]

I need ammo, not a ride!Thems gonna turn out to be classic fighting words...no imho 'bout it!:Kaleun_Salute:

[sublynx]

I hope Zelensky has made sure he can keep on leading the political resistance. If he gets cut off or killed in Kyiv, Ukraine needs a legitimate successor. Putin has it easier to try to sow confusion if Zelensky is dead, or even worse -prisoner. Ukraine needs to be ready to build a solid government-in-exile, if need be.

[Dowly]

Zelensky became president in 2019. There couldn't have been any promises to get into NATO since a country can't join if there are territorial disputes, which Ukraine has had since 2014.

[Jimbuna]

Similarly with the EU.

[Catfish]

Similarly with the EU.
I see a wonderful future for the UK with markets at future Ukraine Russia and China (all out of Europe) :O:

B.t.w.
does anyway know who Zelensky is? I mean the man Trump tried to bully?
Donald Trump was impeached over allegations he improperly sought help from Ukraine to boost his chances of re-election.

"The whistleblower admitted having not directly heard the call but said accounts shared by other officials had painted a consistent picture. For context, about a dozen people are reported to have listened in on the conversation, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

The call occurred days after Mr Trump blocked $391m (£316m) in military aid to Ukraine. Critics argued this was used as a bargaining chip, but Mr Trump denied this."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49800181.amp

[Gorpet]

I see a wonderful future for the UK with markets at future Ukraine Russia and China (all out of Europe) :O:

B.t.w.
does anyway know who Zelensky is? I mean the man Trump tried to bully?
Donald Trump was impeached over allegations he improperly sought help from Ukraine to boost his chances of re-election.

"The whistleblower admitted having not directly heard the call but said accounts shared by other officials had painted a consistent picture. For context, about a dozen people are reported to have listened in on the conversation, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

The call occurred days after Mr Trump blocked $391m (£316m) in military aid to Ukraine. Critics argued this was used as a bargaining chip, but Mr Trump denied this."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49800181.amp

You are a funny bunny. It's all coming full circle now and Trump is nowhere for the last year.This is totally a Joe Biden and Democrat's show. And they are scared . Zelensky has the evidence that could topple western government's.The world mafia aka the new world order want him dead.

[Catfish]

This has not much to do with Zelensky, but all with Trump.
Zelensky did not fall for Trump's offered bribe to accuse and smear other US politicians, which is why Ukraine did not get more of the stuff it now needs.

And scared? Who would not be scared of Putin's invasion which will probably not stop with Ukraine, and may involve dropping some nuclear bombs? I am not really afraid but you must be bat sh!t crazy to call Putin and his invasion "genious".
"This is genious. I'd say that's pretty smart. He's taking over a country -- really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, and just walking right in." (Trump)

"Walking right in" like Trump for a dinner? :woot:

[Cyborg322]

Zelensky did not fall for Trump's offer (or bribe) to accuse US politicians, which is why Ukraine did not get more stuff it now needs.

It looks that way. I think the current situation with the talks between Zelensky and Putin is ill advised its akin to the boxing match between UK Boxer Ricky Hatton and US Floyd Mayweather. A lot of heart self belief but ultimately outmatched in may ways. Putin will almost certainly use this to his advantage if indeed he agrees at all.

I'm starting to wonder who is advising who or has Zelensky given up taking advise from the US and Europe in sheer desperation as the death toll rises

[troopie]

You guys are obviously seeing some wildly different stuff to me. I'm just seeing a guy who is desperate to defend his country. Where's the conspiracy theory background info and references?

[Reece]

My thoughts exactly, we Aussies are in the dark here a bit. :doh:

[Skybird]

Originally I had posted this in the Ukriane thread, but it probably is more appropriately seated in this one.


Focus writes about Zelensky:




Selensky has long since become a hero, but will he survive this war?

This war can also be read as a battle between two men, and the question is how they will get out of it. Both of them - because the question of survival does not only arise for Volodymyr Selenskyj.

The question whether Volodymyr Selenskyj will survive Vladimir Putin's hunt for him can be answered simply: Yes, he can survive. If he wants to. He can call Joe Biden, he can call Emmanuel Macron, he can call Boris Johnson - and maybe he could even call Olaf Scholz.

If he wants to get out of this hell, he can get out of there. But he doesn't want to. The reason is obvious: Selenskyj is no longer the citizen, the popular ex-satirist who went into politics to be elected president in free elections.

The citizen Selenskyj has become the hero Selenskyj, who every day wears a green T-shirt and stands before his people and the world as fearlessly as he is vulnerable, to give courage, to campaign for help, to ask for weapons and to fight for accession to the European Union. In short, history has placed Selenskyj in a place that leaves him only one choice - to make history now.

It is, by the way, may I be forgiven for this know-it-allism, once again the refutation of all materialistic theory, according to which the "conditions", "make" history. According to which the "having" determines the "being".

Not much remains of this whole leftist, essentially Marxist narrative. What remains is the nearly 150-year-old phrase of the Prussian historian Heinrich von Treitschke: "Men make history." That it can also be women is, of course, clear to everyone today. In the current situation, however, it applies either way to Selenskyj's adversary.

The fact that a Marxist system of all things produced a macho man like Putin may be understood as a special punch line. But it was the same with Stalin - to whom Putin refers - and against Lenin, because he gave too much freedom to the "Russian" republics, first and foremost to Ukraine.

Putin can be imagined as a strong man. At least, that's the image he projects to the world. With a naked upper body on a horse, or apparently death-defyingly descending into an icy lake. These images unleashed a tremendous power, not only at home, but also in the West.

Putin still draws on this power today. But the secret service man, like all good secret service men, is an illusionist. The picture he has painted of himself over the years shows not himself, but how he wants to be seen by the world:

As a revenant of Ivan the Terrible or one of the other Russian imperialists who have been walking over corpses for centuries. (The one exception, Mikhail Gorbachev, portrays Putin as a traitor to the people).

In any case, this painted picture prevents a different perception of Putin: what if those biographers are right who paint Putin not as a daredevil, but as a cautious person? From which the existential question arises:

How dangerous is a scaredy-cat on nuclear weapons?

Or as historian Valery Slovoley, for years employed at a Moscow cadre school and dismissed a year and a half ago, put it in the "taz": "He is incredibly afraid of ending up like Gaddafi in Libya or in the dock."

In extreme situations, people need heroic symbols of identification. In England, this was Winston Churchill, perhaps not Hitler's strongest rival, but his fiercest. What Churchill was for Hitler, Selenskyj is now for Putin: a ridiculous figure, an actor. That is how Putin perceives him.

Which also just shows what a bad historian Putin is. The last ex-actor who then made it to statesman is partly responsible for the end of the Soviet empire: US President Ronald Reagan.

Selensky grew into a role that he did not choose: That of the intrepid fighter for good against evil. This may be too black and white for the finicky, but what other conclusion can be drawn from the current situation?

Evil is the unscrupulous, the nefarious, the devious. Putin, the liar. In one sentence: Nothing is good about Putin.

There was nothing good about Stalin either, who subjugated Russia for a quarter of a century, had people murdered in camps, and is responsible for millions of deaths from starvation. And to this day is revered by far too many Russians, Putin leading the way.

In the Eastern West, Russian leaders have long been perceived as Putin is today - from bitter experience. Russian leaders put down the uprising in East Germany (1953), Hungary (1956), and Czechoslovakia (1968).

That is why these countries fled from Russia's threatening grip to the free West the first moment they could. They were united by the lesson that they had better not trust Russian potentates.

This is now Selensky's drive. Western leaders are now learning this lesson, long internalized by the Ukrainian, within days, after years of illusion about what Eastern European historian Karl Schlögel brutally debunkingly calls "Russian kitsch."

Life now holds the following options for Selenskyj: He becomes the hero who stops the Russians. This is the only positive option. Which is opposed by two negative options:

The Russians kill him, which Selenskyj says he expects. Or they force him to sign the surrender. In the first case, at least, Selensky would become a martyr for his people.

The fourth variant: Selenskyj goes into hiding at the last moment and wages a guerrilla war against the Russian occupiers. The history of the struggle of democrats against autocrats also has an example of this.

France's General Charles de Gaulle led the resistance against Hitler and after his downfall became first the president of the French transitional government and then the founder of the Fifth Republic - France as we know it today.

In any case, Selenskyj has already achieved one thing, beyond his personal success, which has since been recognized internationally: In the West, Ukraine is no longer perceived as an appendage of Russia. Instead, it is seen as a country in its own right, with its own history and a brave population.

Selensky has won the war of images. But more than that, as an individual he has managed to positively change the world's perception of his entire country.

A national hero.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (http://www.DeepL.com/Translator) (free version)

[Catfish]

You guys are obviously seeing some wildly different stuff to me. I'm just seeing a guy who is desperate to defend his country. Where's the conspiracy theory background info and references?
My thoughts exactly, we Aussies are in the dark here a bit. :doh:
Zelensky was pressed by Trump to publicly say that Biden's son Hunter Biden had some shady business in Ukraine, to denigrate Biden and so help Trump's election. Further above in this thread Gorpet again citing Trump's accusations that Biden's son had shady "deals" with ukrainian economy or such, all debunked, still echoed (like Hillary, eMails, wrecked election, only democrats doing shady stuff, deal with potentates, raped children, pizzagate, and so on)
At least i guess this is what he drones about, not sure.

When Zelenky did not follow Trump's "suggestions" in this infamous telephone call, as an answer he did not get as much economoc and military support as he had hoped.

[Skybird]

Possible that Trump would have aligned with Putin in this war. He admires Putin, wants to be like him, wants to have his totalitarian powers, wants to be seen as a tough and mighty buddy kicking doors in and slamming fists on tables while telling sexist jokes . What a big mucho macho ma-ma-ma-manly superman, hohoho!



The sad carricature of a human being. Sadder a sight only those are who even now still believe him.

[Skybird]

Tagesspiegel on the assassination plans against Zelensky:


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selenskyj has survived at least three assassination attempts in recent days, the Times reports. Two different groups are said to have received orders to kill Selenskyj: mercenaries from the Kremlin-backed Wagner Group and Chechen special forces.

Both were thwarted, according to the report, by wartime opponents within Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB). According to several media reports, Ukraine's Minister of National Security and Defense confirmed the assassination attempts.

On Saturday, the first attempt was made, according to the report: Ukrainian security officials said Chechen assassins were "eliminated" on the outskirts of Ukraine's capital, Kiev, before they could reach the president. According to Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, Russian spies from the FSB, Russia's successor to the KGB, reportedly informed them of the plans - to condemn the invasion.

"I can say that we have received information from the FSB, which does not want to participate in this bloody war," Danilov said on Ukrainian television. The group is said to be the Kadyrov Elite Group, which reports to Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov.

Separate from the Chechen attempts to kill the Ukrainian president, Wagner mercenaries reportedly made their own attempts to overthrow the government. A roughly 400-man group is believed to have been stationed in Kiev since late January for the purpose, tracking the activities of 24 high-level Ukrainian targets, according to the Times. The force is considered Russia's notorious "shadow army."

The Wagner mercenaries were supposed to wait for the "Spetsnaz," a Russian special forces unit, to create a safe corridor for them out of Kiev so they could escape after the attacks were carried out. They would have carried out the attacks in the course of storming Kiev, which would have provided them with enough distraction. However, the Russian military convoy outside the city had difficulty making headway and slowed the attack significantly.

A plan apparently failed because the mercenaries reached the top ranks of the Ukrainian government on Saturday morning, after which Kiev imposed a 36-hour "hard" curfew and sent everyone indoors so soldiers could search the streets for Russian saboteurs, according to the Daily Mail.

In their previous attempts, the mercenaries were said to have already suffered casualties and were worried about how accurately the Ukrainians had anticipated their moves. According to the Times, a source close to the group said it was "uncanny" how well informed Selenskyj's security team appeared to be.

The mercenaries were tasked with a "very high-profile mission": the beheading of a head of state, a diplomatic source told the Times. "In terms of the impact on Russian politics, this would be perhaps the biggest mission they have carried out so far. It would have a huge impact on the war," the source continued. "It only takes one of them to get lucky and they all go home with a bonus," the Times was told.

A specialist on the Russian mercenary group Wagner said that the elite "Spetsnaz" troops would probably be more capable of taking out the president because they would have access to more equipment. According to the source, however, it would make more sense for Russia to rely on the Wagner force to take out the president. Unlike Russian soldiers, the Kremlin could deny any connection here.

The Wagner Group has already been in Ukraine since 2014, when Russian fighters in civilian clothes were sent to the Donbass to foment conflict. Most recently, they have also been active in Syria and the West African country of Mali.

Russia denies its links to the Wagner group. According to the Times, the Wagner Group is said to be led by Yevgeny Prigozhin. He is considered "Putin's chef," and owns several bot factories and an online army. In the wake of the West's sanctions against Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Prigozhin is also on the list as a close friend of the Kremlin chief.

The group is said to be under intense pressure from Moscow to get its job done. It apparently wanted to eliminate the 24 targets on its list within a few days. Among them, according to a report in the Daily Mail, were the Ukrainian prime minister, the entire cabinet, the mayor of Kiev, Vitali Klitschko, and his brother Vladimir.

The mercenaries are believed to have drawn up plans for another attempt before the weekend. One theory, as reported by the Times, is that the group was trying to determine Selenskyj's whereabouts in order to mark him with a laser. After that, the Russian air force could fly in and drop a bomb.

For the Ukrainian president, the attempted attacks are not news: He has heard warnings about them from U.S. officials for weeks, the Washington Post reports. In a video message on the night of Feb. 26, he contradicted rumors that he had already left the country. "I will stay in the capital, stay with my people," he said, adding, "According to our information, the enemy has declared me target No. 1, my family target No. 2." He also warned against Russian "sabotage groups."

According to the Washington Post, the U.S. government offered to help Selenskyj leave Kiev to prevent him from being captured or killed by advancing Russian forces. Selenskyj declined the offer, saying instead, "I need ammunition, not a ride."

The Ukrainian president, according to the Daily Mail, has surrounded himself with a trusted team and is constantly on the move with ever-varying communication methods to evade the henchmen. Several times a day, he checks in with his people via video message or social media to continue fighting the Russian invasion.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Onkel Neal]

Zelensky was pressed by Trump to publicly say that Biden's son Hunter Biden had some shady business in Ukraine, to denigrate Biden and so help Trump's election. Further above in this thread Gorpet again citing Trump's accusations that Biden's son had shady "deals" with ukrainian economy or such, all debunked, still echoed (like Hillary, eMails, wrecked election, only democrats doing shady stuff, deal with potentates, raped children, pizzagate, and so on)
At least i guess this is what he drones about, not sure.

When Zelenky did not follow Trump's "suggestions" in this infamous telephone call, as an answer he did not get as much economoc and military support as he had hoped.

I love it when people insist anything they disagree with is "debunked". It's laughable, especially when a MSM article brings up anything they don't want to be called out on, it's always "debunked" or "false claims".

Hillary: certainly did many of the things she has been accused of, most significantly, using the DNC to undermine her opponent's (Sanders) nomination run. Have you read any of Podesta's emails from Wikileaks? Do you recall the CNN talking head Brazile who leaked the debate questions to Hillary's campaign (which they used without reporting them, if I'm not mistaken)? Clinton and the DNC are as crooked as a snake, it's been evident for years. Wikileaks exposed this clearly.

Emails: Hillary directed the use of an unsecure private server for her Sec of State emails, then she tried to cover it up, directed her staff to remove evidence from the servers, lied about and tried to play dumb. Sure, you can gloss over that if you like, but it is a big deal.

I totally agree with you about Trump's stupid pressuring Zelensky about Hunter Biden's corruption, that was definitely bad, even impeachable. What Trump should have done is directed the Dept of Justice or FBI to investigate that. His stupid move does not diminish the corruption from the Bidens, no sir.

Possible that Trump would have aligned with Putin in this war. He admires Putin, wants to be like him, wants to have his totalitarian powers, wants to be seen as a tough and mighty buddy kicking doors in and slamming fists on tables while telling sexist jokes . What a big mucho macho ma-ma-ma-manly superman, hohoho!



The sad carricature of a human being. Sadder a sight only those are who even now still believe him.

I know that Trump does like to posture as the tough, no-nonsense, action-driven macho guy, but despite that, despite his bluster and rhetoric, I don't think he's as reckless as he puts on, or as he is painted. His 4 years in office probably had the fewest military adventures and actions than any president in a long time.

[Threadfin]

Trump will soon replace Kevin Bacon as the center of the universe, and for centuries everything bad that happens will be connected back to him.

[Skybird]

I know that Trump does like to posture as the tough, no-nonsense, action-driven macho guy, but despite that, despite his bluster and rhetoric, I don't think he's as reckless as he puts on, or as he is painted. His 4 years in office probably had the fewest military adventures and actions than any president in a long time.
And scruple sor reason have nothikng to do with that, Neal. He is a coward. Thats simple. :03: He has nos cruples to do underhanded deals, though, and a cionsistent opportunist. And that is why it is a blessing that he is not the one in the voal officve right now. Like Putin, he has a strongly psychopathic, antisocial personality structure. But he lacks the ice-cold calculating brains that Putin once had.Both men are extrneely brutal, but the means by which they project that brutality and aggressiveness are quite different. Both men show strongn signs of paranoia, since as long a sI can remember them, and obviously also extremely strong egocentrism, but team Trump scores heavily in additional narcissism.



I am no fan of Biden, and yes, obviously his age is clearly to be seen, and yet: you underestimate the value of having him in thsi crisis, not Trump. Biden is a brainc hild of the cold war, he knwos that gam,e, how it wa splayed, he knwos the rules of it, he was part of it. He is modest. And nevertehless he also is "America first", something that many in Europoe overlook and maybe even Americans. Not evertyhing he says and done is sleepy or slow, but simply: subtle and clever.



I non-hot-head is needed on our side. Because one thing I am 100% certain of now: Putin will not shy away from using nuclear weapons in the Ukraine if he thinks that is what is needed to rescue himself. I hate to sa yit, but nuclear wepaons use in the Ukraine to me is now a realistic scenario. We must not want to have Trump accidentally pushing him over that red line, or even encouraging him with subtle "signals".



We can only hope that the Russian intel or military will put bullets in Putin's head if he gives that order. Apparently the FSB, Putin's very own domain, is no longer strictly loyal to him. We should assist these powers - and never let Russia or the world know about it, not during the action, and not after it.

[Onkel Neal]

And scruple sor reason have nothikng to do with that, Neal. He is a coward. Thats simple. :03: He has nos cruples to do underhanded deals, though, and a cionsistent opportunist. And that is why it is a blessing that he is not the one in the voal officve right now. Like Putin, he has a strongly psychopathic, antisocial personality structure. But he lacks the ice-cold calculating brains that Putin once had.Both men are extrneely brutal, but the means by which they project that brutality and aggressiveness are quite different. Both men show strongn signs of paranoia, since as long a sI can remember them, and obviously also extremely strong egocentrism, but team Trump scores heavily in additional narcissism.



I am no fan of Biden, and yes, obviously his age is clearly to be seen, and yet: you underestimate the value of having him in thsi crisis, not Trump. Biden is a brainc hild of the cold war, he knwos that gam,e, how it wa splayed, he knwos the rules of it, he was part of it. He is modest. And nevertehless he also is "America first", something that many in Europoe overlook and maybe even Americans. Not evertyhing he says and done is sleepy or slow, but simply: subtle and clever.

.


You really don't know Biden. Seriously, you are giving that career hack way to much credit.

[Catfish]

I admit i do not know much of Biden, but i saw and heard this blithering idiot who became president before.
Biden's speech underwhelming, i agree (ahem).
Re Hillary you have links other than Fox or Breitbart who give evidence? When i read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy it is not exactly a breaker, but a controversy.
You really think that Sanders had a chance against anyone else, in the conservative US?

[les green01]

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head

[John Pancoast]

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head


:up::up::up:

[Skybird]

You really don't know Biden. Seriously, you are giving that career hack way to much credit.
No I donbt, I know that he made the U-turn several times in his career.

But the alternative to Biden was and is Trump.

The choice, with all flaws Biden has, nevertheless is easy.

Try to understand this, I am no Biden fan. Not at all, you cannot find many post of me, if any, where I applaude and celebrate him. I mostly leave your political national affairs alone since last year's elections. But so far I rate his handling of this Ukraine drama as the much lesser evil, compared to what the Donald could have done with his "strange" ways. I also think the chaotic withdrawel from Afghanistan is consistent with what Biden thinks and what I agree with: he put America first, no matter the cost for others, he left the sh!t because there was nothing but costs and no gains and the war was unwinnable since years and he did not care for the reputation cost and in then end he saved quite some Americans' interests and lives that way, did not care for the fallout. One could have planned for that earlier, and doing it in a more controlled way, but he said: nuff is enough, and got you out. I think it could have been done earlier and better managed, but in principle agree.

Or would you have stayed ten more years in which you carefully deesign the process of withdrawing? The French went out of Mali now, the Germans still are there, being practically ineffective. and they only stay because in germany politicians want to avoid discussions about the failure the Mali mission is. So they leave the troops where they are, to not have that discussion. Thats what American politicians did with Afganistan, and way too long.

Better a dirty end than dirt without an end.


That Republicans put theri perposnal and pöarty power itnerst above the naiutons interewsst and thus block Bidne to detah in evertyhing, is something you cannot hold him accountable for. The pest causing this, is a generally derailed political system, and Trump.

[Catfish]

lol i think some of you guys are smoking some good stuff don't know if i need to laugh or walk away shaking my head
Well from an outsider guy's view you are completely crazy even w/o smoking pot (and maybe we should not write about clinical stuff).
Care to elaborate? Please read the Wikipedia entry first, us outsiders (not only 'Germany') are obviously not used to read the same news sources you do :yep:

[Catfish]

No answer *is* an answer

[John Pancoast]

Not at all. Maybe it's just not worth a person's time, etc. :yep:

[Rockstar]

Speaking of useful stooges. There those who make stupid mistakes and act no different than the rest of our politicians trying to dig up dirt on each other to get elected i.e internal politics. All the while they still continue and preside over the shipments of arms, logistical support and train the military of Ukraine

Then there’s those who are just evil back stabbing hypocrites a paid spokesman for Putin on the global stage and smile about because they get paid very well by the Russian oligarchy and Putin. Don’t get me started on those who just went along with it.

https://i0.wp.com/usefulstooges.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/gerhard-schroeder_2895463c.jpg

https://usefulstooges.com/2015/12/11/gerhard-schroder-putins-e250000-pal/

Gerhard Schröder, Putin’s €250,000 pal

Schröder and Putin – a special friendship

https://i0.wp.com/usefulstooges.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/schroeder-putin.jpg

Among the surprisingly many members of the Western European political elite who’ve been remarkably steadfast in their, um, understanding for even the most brutal conduct by Vladimir Putin, one of the staunchest has been Gerhard Schröder, who served as chancellor of Germany from 1998 to 2005. Schröder, as it happens, sits on the board of Russia’s Gazprom, the giant government-owned natural-gas company, and is a longtime personal chum of the Kremlin thug (whom he’s called a “flawless democrat”). Putin once turned up at Schröder’s home in Hanover “with a Russian choir to celebrate his birthday.” Schröder has described Putin as having “a very close relationship to Germany” – noting that in the 1980s Putin was a KGB spy stationed in East Germany. (As we all know, of course, that’s the best way to develop a “very close relationship.”)

Gerhard-Schroeder_2895463cAnd what a friend Schröder has been! When Putin invaded Ukraine, Schröder was quick to defend his buddy: Putin, he argued, was simply trying to keep Russia strong and on par with the U.S. Who could criticize that worthy goal? Putin, Schröder further explained was justly worried about “being encircled” – as if there were even the remotest possibility of a military incursion into Russia from Ukraine or Poland or one of the Baltic states. Schröder also made the point that Ukraine is “culturally divided,” with some Ukrainians identifying more with the West, others looking to Russia – so hey, why not let Putin seize some of the pro-Russian part of the country?

https://i0.wp.com/usefulstooges.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/schroeder-wird-65_fullview.jpg

At least Schröder acknowledged that the invasion constituted a clear violation of international law – but he hastened to add that the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia also violated international law. Never mind that Putin’s action was an aggressive, unprovoked land grab by a brutal dictator, and NATO’s bombing was a humanitarian effort to save the lives of people who were being targeted by a genocidal dictator.

Germany’s current chancellor, Angela Merkel, was outraged by Schröder’s support for Putin’s assault on Ukraine. Roland Nelles of Der Spiegel wasn’t impressed either. When Schröder celebrated his 70th birthday with Putin in April of last year – hot on the heels of the Crimea invasion – Nelles accused him of “making a mockery of Berlin’s foreign policy.” Yes, the two guys are pals. But still, wrote Nelles,

russland-praesident-wladimir-putin-und-altkanzler-gerhard-schroederSchröder ought to know better. If the former German chancellor believes he can continue his friendship as if nothing has happened, it’s a mistake. Schröder’s own center-left Social Democratic Party is currently the junior coalition partner in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government, which is frantically trying to prevent his friend Vladimir from carrying out the policies of a power-drunk hegemon in Eastern Europe. In difficult times like these, a former German leader should, at least publicly, keep a safe distance from Putin….as Germany’s former leader, he is still obliged to maintain a statesman-like responsibility for his country.

Thomas Holl of Frankfurter Allgemeine agreed. Reacting to photographs of Schröder hugging Putin, he called them “macabre.”

https://i0.wp.com/usefulstooges.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/putinhugschroeder.jpg


One interesting detail about that 70th birthday party. It was hosted by Nord Stream AG, a Gazprom subsidiary that operates a gas pipeline between Russia and Germany. Guess who’s the chairman of Nord Stream’s advisory board, raking in €250,000 a year from the Russian government? None other than Gerhard Schröder. In fact, he took the job only weeks after his party lost the 2005 parliamentary elections, forcing him to hand over the chancellorship to Merkel. “Opponents,” recalled Reuters, “said the haste with which he took up the job was unseemly and the link to Russian interests too direct for a former chancellor.” In any event, the fundamental fact about Schröder now seems clear. As Bundestag member Manuel Sarrazi puts it, he’s “spreading the Kremlin’s propaganda” and is “now a paid spokesman for Russia.”

[Skybird]

The German disgust for Schroeder's role in all this is culminating, his public deconstruction is in full swing. His party has deleted him for the hall of chancellor paintings and wants to throw him out, practically all his honourings and titles have been stripped of him, he is persona non grata. He is dispised and attacked very, ver ymuch.

And still refuses to speak out against Putin and the war.

He once called Putin "einen lupenreinen Demokraten".

However, the bigger damage, the far bigger damage, was done by Merkel. She has systematically and with the greatest possible consistency maximized German dependencies and weaknesses vis-à-vis Russia, China, and maximised also liabilities to the EU and the insidious neutralization of German resistance to the abuse of the ECB by debt takers. I called her often the worst political desaster for Germany since 1933-45, and I stick with that, do not take back one word of it. Its true. Not as bad as Hitler, but the worst since Hitler. The global appreciatioon she is beign met with, is undeserved. She has messed up every single course plotting in her reign, and the result is a chain of desastrous errors that hang like millstones around our neck.

[Jimbuna]

He's obviously not a tea drinker then :)

[Rockstar]

It’s amazing. People are STILL griping over what could’ve, would’ve and should’ve happened. By a person who is no longer an ongoing concern.

Meanwhile the very thing they are still griping over about what might have been about a person who no longer matters. Actually without a doubt DID happen and continued to happen for many years, not by the orange man living rent free in their minds. But by their own leadership and government institutions and got paid well by Putin too boot.

Stop projecting.

[Torpex77]

I have one fiancé and 3 Friends in Ukraine. Ive personally spent several months in Ukraine over the last 8 years, at one point researching cashing out of the US and moving to Ukraine.

After much research moving to Ukraine was put in the circular file, aka trashcan. Why?

There's alot of reasons, One is that I did not want to become part of a Two class society, where 90-95% of the population has access to only 5% of the nations Capital. :o

Ukraine Currency has been on death spiral since 2014, Right after Pro Russian President was ousted on Lies. Also Noteworthy is that Before 2014 Russia Supplied Gas for Heat and cooking to UKRAINE FREE. How Nice was that? After 2014 Ukraine said we want Independence..yet NOTHING changed for average People, except everything cost more. No Extra freedoms....because Russia was NOT Hurting Most Citizens.

Another reason was how the Government handled the Eastern regions that wanted to "leave Ukraine" that have led to @13,000 civilian deaths. As a Reminder The US was responsible for 42,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan. Neither is Good, and BOTH have been given a free pass by the UN. Why?:o

One of My Friends, who most likely is dead (Not hear from her for 1.5 years) , she lived in the Easter region Zelensky and past president have been shelling and shooting at. She told me of Horrors from Ukraine soldiers shooting people because they "think" they might be Russians. :(

The Chernobyl accident displaced hundreds of thousands of People and if you had to abandon your home you were promised 300 dollars for life. Past president and Zelensky have reduced this to 75 dollars. :(

Also Note that since Every western investment in Ukraine often does not use local labor, and most revenues leave Ukraine, they dont benefit Ukraine Economy. Poor remain Poor :(

Average Daily salary in Ukraine for 90-95% of population is only 8-17 dollars. Mind you the Upper class {@5%} are making 50-150000 dollars every year. How? Most products enter Ukraine with western prices, as Ukraine mostly makes food. This price has allowed the Upper crust to make Very Good Income since they sell products at Western Prices with Western Profits. :(

Most Ukrainians who visit USA Live in Kiev, or are part of the Upper Class. They have a very different position and view since they have access to money and Visa system.

My Friend Nikitta and His Wife Anna Moved to Crimea before so called "Russian Invasion" Their Lives have improved greatly as the Invasion was 5% Military and 95% Business Investments and Moscow rebuilding neglected Infrastructure. :up:

Then we have the VISA problem. For an average Citizen its impossible to get simple travel visa to USA. To get this visa you must prove to Ukraine that you will RETURN. This can be a Big amount of money in Ukraine Bank (>4000 USD) or if you own property! Mostly Impossible for average Citizen. So Most can Never Get Visa to Enter USA :(

Ukraine requires NO Visa for US Citizen to Enter Ukraine, BUT USA requires a VISA for Ukraine Citizen to Enter US. (Not friendly say many Ukraine Citizens) :(

Since the Rich class need to keep salary for workers low, they work with Govt to Keep People in Ukraine and restrict travel to USA, and of course USA do what Ukraine asks. This is Facism :(

So Im NOT in support of Russian Tactics or Military action. But there's alot more to this event than I and We Know. :hmmm:

Frank

[Armistead]

I have one fiancé and 3 Friends in Ukraine. Ive personally spent several months in Ukraine over the last 8 years, at one point researching cashing out of the US and moving to Ukraine.

After much research moving to Ukraine was put in the circular file, aka trashcan. Why?

There's alot of reasons, One is that I did not want to become part of a Two class society, where 90-95% of the population has access to only 5% of the nations Capital. :o

Ukraine Currency has been on death spiral since 2014, Right after Pro Russian President was ousted on Lies. Also Noteworthy is that Before 2014 Russia Supplied Gas for Heat and cooking to UKRAINE FREE. How Nice was that? After 2014 Ukraine said we want Independence..yet NOTHING changed for average People, except everything cost more. No Extra freedoms....because Russia was NOT Hurting Most Citizens.

Another reason was how the Government handled the Eastern regions that wanted to "leave Ukraine" that have led to @13,000 civilian deaths. As a Reminder The US was responsible for 42,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan. Neither is Good, and BOTH have been given a free pass by the UN. Why?:o

One of My Friends, who most likely is dead (Not hear from her for 1.5 years) , she lived in the Easter region Zelensky and past president have been shelling and shooting at. She told me of Horrors from Ukraine soldiers shooting people because they "think" they might be Russians. :(

The Chernobyl accident displaced hundreds of thousands of People and if you had to abandon your home you were promised 300 dollars for life. Past president and Zelensky have reduced this to 75 dollars. :(

Also Note that since Every western investment in Ukraine often does not use local labor, and most revenues leave Ukraine, they dont benefit Ukraine Economy. Poor remain Poor :(

Average Daily salary in Ukraine for 90-95% of population is only 8-17 dollars. Mind you the Upper class {@5%} are making 50-150000 dollars every year. How? Most products enter Ukraine with western prices, as Ukraine mostly makes food. This price has allowed the Upper crust to make Very Good Income since they sell products at Western Prices with Western Profits. :(

Most Ukrainians who visit USA Live in Kiev, or are part of the Upper Class. They have a very different position and view since they have access to money and Visa system.

My Friend Nikitta and His Wife Anna Moved to Crimea before so called "Russian Invasion" Their Lives have improved greatly as the Invasion was 5% Military and 95% Business Investments and Moscow rebuilding neglected Infrastructure. :up:

Then we have the VISA problem. For an average Citizen its impossible to get simple travel visa to USA. To get this visa you must prove to Ukraine that you will RETURN. This can be a Big amount of money in Ukraine Bank (>4000 USD) or if you own property! Mostly Impossible for average Citizen. So Most can Never Get Visa to Enter USA :(

Ukraine requires NO Visa for US Citizen to Enter Ukraine, BUT USA requires a VISA for Ukraine Citizen to Enter US. (Not friendly say many Ukraine Citizens) :(

Since the Rich class need to keep salary for workers low, they work with Govt to Keep People in Ukraine and restrict travel to USA, and of course USA do what Ukraine asks. This is Facism :(

So Im NOT in support of Russian Tactics or Military action. But there's alot more to this event than I and We Know. :hmmm:

Frank

America has always embraced imperialism, even with war. We accept there will always be other imperialistic powers that would expand over areas if we didn't, and regardless of the pain we impose on them, in the long run western ideals are the better option for them.

[Gorpet]

Trump will soon replace Kevin Bacon as the center of the universe, and for centuries everything bad that happens will be connected back to him.

And Nancy Pelosi believes she will Ascend to Valhalla as a Queen

[Platapus]

But there's alot more to this event than I and We Know. :hmmm:

Frank


Sage advice.

[Gorpet]

I have one fiancé and 3 Friends in Ukraine. Ive personally spent several months in Ukraine over the last 8 years, at one point researching cashing out of the US and moving to Ukraine.

After much research moving to Ukraine was put in the circular file, aka trashcan. Why?

There's alot of reasons, One is that I did not want to become part of a Two class society, where 90-95% of the population has access to only 5% of the nations Capital. :o

Ukraine Currency has been on death spiral since 2014, Right after Pro Russian President was ousted on Lies. Also Noteworthy is that Before 2014 Russia Supplied Gas for Heat and cooking to UKRAINE FREE. How Nice was that? After 2014 Ukraine said we want Independence..yet NOTHING changed for average People, except everything cost more. No Extra freedoms....because Russia was NOT Hurting Most Citizens.

Another reason was how the Government handled the Eastern regions that wanted to "leave Ukraine" that have led to @13,000 civilian deaths. As a Reminder The US was responsible for 42,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan. Neither is Good, and BOTH have been given a free pass by the UN. Why?:o

One of My Friends, who most likely is dead (Not hear from her for 1.5 years) , she lived in the Easter region Zelensky and past president have been shelling and shooting at. She told me of Horrors from Ukraine soldiers shooting people because they "think" they might be Russians. :(

The Chernobyl accident displaced hundreds of thousands of People and if you had to abandon your home you were promised 300 dollars for life. Past president and Zelensky have reduced this to 75 dollars. :(

Also Note that since Every western investment in Ukraine often does not use local labor, and most revenues leave Ukraine, they dont benefit Ukraine Economy. Poor remain Poor :(

Average Daily salary in Ukraine for 90-95% of population is only 8-17 dollars. Mind you the Upper class {@5%} are making 50-150000 dollars every year. How? Most products enter Ukraine with western prices, as Ukraine mostly makes food. This price has allowed the Upper crust to make Very Good Income since they sell products at Western Prices with Western Profits. :(

Most Ukrainians who visit USA Live in Kiev, or are part of the Upper Class. They have a very different position and view since they have access to money and Visa system.

My Friend Nikitta and His Wife Anna Moved to Crimea before so called "Russian Invasion" Their Lives have improved greatly as the Invasion was 5% Military and 95% Business Investments and Moscow rebuilding neglected Infrastructure. :up:

Then we have the VISA problem. For an average Citizen its impossible to get simple travel visa to USA. To get this visa you must prove to Ukraine that you will RETURN. This can be a Big amount of money in Ukraine Bank (>4000 USD) or if you own property! Mostly Impossible for average Citizen. So Most can Never Get Visa to Enter USA :(

Ukraine requires NO Visa for US Citizen to Enter Ukraine, BUT USA requires a VISA for Ukraine Citizen to Enter US. (Not friendly say many Ukraine Citizens) :(

Since the Rich class need to keep salary for workers low, they work with Govt to Keep People in Ukraine and restrict travel to USA, and of course USA do what Ukraine asks. This is Facism :(

So Im NOT in support of Russian Tactics or Military action. But there's alot more to this event than I and We Know. :hmmm:

Frank

Look, Torpex 77 didn't i see you trying to get on a train? Here's solution, Joey and the American Democrats.are the saviours of the entire world for military and destruction.don'tr look to India.They haven't made their mind up yet. Look if you want to get into the USA ,just go through Mexico it's not a problem and when you get here.If you get here to the land of milk and honey You will never have to work another day in your life.The Americans have what they call social security the politicians they take from their citizens, the money that have worked for all the years of their lives and they will take take that money and give it to you when you get here.Yes come to the America you have nothing to lose.And bring your kids, America gives every women that's not married,1,000.00 dollars a piece for each kid you bring and the greatest gift our government will give you and your child is citizenship you and your child will get all the food stamps,free medical.Till the day you die.

[Torpex77]

Look, Torpex 77 didn't i see you trying to get on a train? Here's solution, Joey and the American Democrats.are the saviours of the entire world for military and destruction.don'tr look to India.They haven't made their mind up yet. Look if you want to get into the USA ,just go through Mexico it's not a problem and when you get here.If you get here to the land of milk and honey You will never have to work another day in your life.The Americans have what they call social security the politicians they take from their citizens, the money that have worked for all the years of their lives and they will take take that money and give it to you when you get here.Yes come to the America you have nothing to lose.And bring your kids, America gives every women that's not married,1,000.00 dollars a piece for each kid you bring and the greatest gift our government will give you and your child is citizenship you and your child will get all the food stamps,free medical.Till the day you die.

:haha: But Why?

[Gorpet]

:haha: But Why?

American Politicians need immigrants, The men and women will be used for the South American front they have planed. It's better to form an army that already knows the language of the people of the country's your going to create hostilities with and invade in the future.You really didn't think the Democrats are letting these people into this country to take care of from border crossing to grave do ya.

South America's turn is coming.

[Skybird]

There are reasons why the EU still refuses and has refused since many years to let Ukraine into the club. Sympathy and pity now due to the war has nothing to do with the shady ways of the state and the dominance of the oligarchs.
We should give them all war-related support we can risk.

But I am still against EU membership and NATO membership. But cooperation and support outside these organisations. Military aid generously, economic aid carefully controlled and based on conditions to keep corruption and organised crime out.

[Gorpet]

Zelensky was pressed by Trump to publicly say that Biden's son Hunter Biden had some shady business in Ukraine, to denigrate Biden and so help Trump's election. Further above in this thread Gorpet again citing Trump's accusations that Biden's son had shady "deals" with ukrainian economy or such, all debunked, still echoed (like Hillary, eMails, wrecked election, only democrats doing shady stuff, deal with potentates, raped children, pizzagate, and so on)
At least i guess this is what he drones about, not sure.

When Zelenky did not follow Trump's "suggestions" in this infamous telephone call, as an answer he did not get as much economoc and military support as he had hoped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd-ZPO89ulw And what was that you said about me ?. Somebody has to eat a Crow and you can start at it's beak feet and work your way up.