Tactics for surviving Hedgehog

[Bubblehead1980]

I have very little experience in U Boats, so no background in dealing with hedgehog attacks. Figured I would ask in the community used to dealing with them lol.

In my mod for SH 4, I have instituted "friendly fire" units. Rare encounters, and usually with aircraft when player is attacked by "Allied" units, but this time, I ran into a John C. Butler Class DE off Morotai on 5 November 1944.

I was on my way in the old NAUTILUS (Donation Narwhal mod from subsim) to end patrol 15 at Brisbane, after refueling MIOS WOENDI.

Radar Warning Receiver went off, then SJ contact, had a lone pip. I figured a enemy patrol, the possibility of friendly fire just did not register (and I created this part of the mod lol) . Anyways, he opens fire from much longer range than Japanese usually do, and could not outrun him in my old boat, so submerged. Before left bridge, was able to identify him visually as a BUTLER class DE.

Came in pinging, boat was rigged for depth charge and thought crossed my mind, him being a US DE, "HEDGEHOG". I went ahead flank and turned off his path best I could. I had external camera disabled (as usually do) but I heard a unusual sound of something firing/launching when DE was still a bit away, no depth charge splashes. Assumed, he had fired hedgehog.

As I passed 325 feet otw to 350, which is pushing it for the old boat, BAM!

Forward torpedo room bulkhead damage to 98 percent, water flooding in, hull damage went to 37 percent, dive planes transmission destroyed, all four bow tubes destroyed, every piece of equipment in forward torpedo smashed. I went all back emergency to compensate for forward flooding and prevent uncontrolled descent.

As DE roared overhead, dropped a pattern of charges, which caused damage through boat. Came around again (based on sound) and heard that unusual sound, I assume to be hedgehogs firing again, no hit this time, but pinging, then depth charges which caused more damage.

Unable to control depth and knowing it would be over if I did not. I blew ballast, ready for surface and figured perhaps the 6 inch guns on NAUTILUS could handle the DE. After several attempts, essentially blew the tanks dry, began to rise but as passed 211 feet...heard more hedgehogs launch. Ten to fifteen seconds later....BAM! lights out, damage reports coming in, hull damage went to 97, lost power to motors, boat stopped its rise at 135 feet, started down and as passed 190 feet, hull collapsed, it was all over.

Anyways, any tips to avoid this in the future, are appreciated. This was my 15th patrol in the NAUTILUS, started in December 1941, and now have to start a new career . Survived many close calls to be taken out by a "friendly". Quite unfortunate. Glad Japanese did not have hedgehog etc.

[Fifi]

I’m no expert, but I would run flank each time destroyer is in approach over you, preferably perpendicular to his path…
Hedgehogs are sinking faster than depth charges, and do explode only if touching your hull (in real life that was)
Depth and speed are your allies when they throw this weapon imho
:salute:

[John Pancoast]

Like Fifi said though I'll add depth and speed are always your friend, at any timeline of the war. Many players think they have to be quiet as a mouse and creep along to survive........and then wonder why they get sunk.

Speed and depth are your friend in SH3. It is quite easy to survive the war in terms of escorts if one knows how to use them.
I.e., when an escort(s) already knows you are there either via locating you on the surface or submerged (get to know the difference between a searching and a "we have you" asdic ping), you sinking a ship, etc. there is zero reason to be quiet anymore.
If you've just sunk a ship(s) while submerged you can wait until the escort(s) come looking for you per above before doing this if desired, or just get down there right away. Either way. That interval is the only time to be slow and quiet before this tactic.

My routine submerged escape procedure, even from a shallow initial depth or periscope depth if already located is flank speed, drop TWO bolds if you have them (the ONLY time I use bolds), dive at speed all the way down to 260 meters. Cut your speed via silent running around 240 meters or so, you'll continue to quickly reach 260.
The only time I might change direction when starting from being submerged is to get away from a convoy's course. I don't worry about an escort(s) course. This is in a Type VIIc or better.
With a crash dive, same thing except in this scenario is when I might change direction to run under the chasing escort(s) or get away from a convoys course. Your initial surface speed helps with this when initially submerged, hence why I do it more often in a crash dive scenario vs. an already submerged one. Turning slows you down and you want to get very deep, very fast.

Though this is only if I'm out of acoustic torpedoes in the first place. If I have those I sink escorts too. :D Never leave port without your stern tube loaded with these and one in reserve.


Once there, silent running on and speed at one knot max. and one can then worry about aspect if desired though you rarely will have to. I like to use Stiebler's patch so you'll slowly (should be quicker but anyway) continue to sink at one knot. Not a problem; the VIIc can take it. Set your course to something around the opposite direction of the convoy; you'll lose the escort(s) sooner that way when they eventually head back to it.

I routinely escape with this method, including H/K groups, hedgehogs, whatever. Many times they don't even get a chance to use the hedgehogs with this method.
So, get very deep, get there very fast, and go away from the convoy if there is one are the keys. In your scenario your main mistake was not staying at flank after diving; you were already discovered, no reason to be quiet then.
If you would have had speed all the way down, you would most likely have escaped.

[Aktungbby]

preferably perpendicular to his path:up:As I pointed out in your Pigs Fly thred, the hard 90⁰ turn to avoid shallow airborne depth charges is even more critical against a wider circular or elliptical hedgehog 24 spigot-mortar pattern with a faster descent rate where one contact explosion also triggers some of the other warheads in the ring (sympathetic detonation)!?? for increased hydrostatic shock effect;...if possible turn into the approaching escort so he overshoots you while descending. The range is 180-200 meters- reloaded in 3 minutes. The hedgehog kill rate is much superior to conventional depth charges.

[John Pancoast]

As I pointed out in your Pigs Fly thred, the hard 90⁰ turn to avoid shallow airborne depth charges is even more critical against a wider circular or elliptical hedgehog 24 spigot-mortar pattern with a faster descent rate where one contact explosion lt also triggers. some the other warheads in the ring (sympathetic detonation)!?? for increased hydrostatic shock effect;...if possible turn into the approaching escort so he overshoots you while descending. The range is 180-200 meters- reloaded in 3 minutes



I never make turns crash diving for aircraft, never been a problem, no reason to.
As stated I do like to reverse course crash diving from an escort though and go 180 degrees under his course, but only if it doesn't take me closer to a convoy if one is present.
Get deep, get there fast. Course changes only slow you down and the escorts and aircraft in SH3 aren't good enough to worry about having to do course changes.
But as I said, I only use Type VIIs and have yet to be hit by a hedge hog doing this tactic. If one chooses to use a Type IX barge boat, then getting sunk comes with the territory. :D

[Aktungbby]

I'll leave a wreath toßed over your last known location!:oops::O::dead:

[John Pancoast]

I'll leave a wreath toßed over your last known location!:oops::O::dead:


<shrug> I've done plenty of campaigns with nary a problem using this tactic. Current one is 9/44 and just on this patrol I've done it successfully a few times.
Sunk two merchants in the meantime too. :)
Don't knock it till ya try it.....as long as you're in a VII anyway. :03:

[Bubblehead1980]

Thanks for all the advice.:Kaleun_Salute:


I went back to replay the scenario (career is over since was killed, but figured would try tactics out before I start another) and survived once (barely), killed second time. First time, no hedgehog hits but her depth charges damage nearly every piece of equipment on the boat and the hull, caused flooding. Boat slipped to 425 feet before could get control, which is REALLY pushing it for the old boat, esp with even a little hull damage. I used tactics suggest. DE hunted me for 9 hours game time, about 5 of it was under constant attack. Would go away, then come back and attack again. I survived probably six hedgehog attacks. I had the external cam off (tried to edit active file to see if could get it to turn on, so could see but it would not work) but sure the mortars just barely missed me a few times.

Second time I survived the initial two hedgehog attacks , took some slight damage from depth charges, but on third run, two hedgehogs hit me, hull damage, flooding etc, and within a minute hull collapsed, all over.

Main thing is old boat like Narwhal is a liability anyways in 1944, which is why assigned to special missions vs front line action, hunting shipping, in last half of war (in real life and the sim, now). So put up against a modern US DE with a weapon like hedgehog, odds of survival are not exactly high anyways.


In a more modern Gato Balao etc, better chance with those tactics. These "friendly fire" encounters are rare, esp with DD/DE etc but if happens again hope am in a newer boat lol.

Thanks again for the replies.

[Kapitän]

:up:As I pointed out in your Pigs Fly thred, the hard 90⁰ turn to avoid shallow airborne depth charges...



I know, this thread is about Hedgehogs, but this sentence caught my eye and raised the question, whether or not A/C bombs actually act as depth charges or as Aerial bombs. In my estimation, they behave more like aerial bombs ...

[John Pancoast]

I know, this thread is about Hedgehogs, but this sentence caught my eye and raised the question, whether or not A/C bombs actually act as depth charges or as Aerial bombs. In my estimation, they behave more like aerial bombs ...


It depends on the mega mod. I.e., NYGM has aerial depth charges.
Now whether they actually act like depth charges, I don't know.
But when they and the bombs aren't dropped anywhere near your boat, it doesn't matter anyway. :D