Confused and Frustrated...

[USS CUTTHROAT SS-365]

Hello!

I'm at the point where I'm ready to try my hand at firing a couple of torpedoes at enemy ships. But, in trying to watch the Video Tutorials to gain some knowledge, it seems that I cannot get more than a minute or two into the Tutorials without feeling like everyone starts speaking in a different language; the mouse cursor starts moving and clicking on different Gauges, Buttons and such, click this, then that, but don't forget to click here before... crisscrossing lines get drawn on the Nav Map, and I end up totally lost. TMO? RFB?

Honestly, am I approaching this the wrong way, or am I really missing something?

Help! :oops:

Alan :salute:

[Bubblehead1980]

Hello!

I'm at the point where I'm ready to try my hand at firing a couple of torpedoes at enemy ships. But, in trying to watch the Video Tutorials to gain some knowledge, it seems that I cannot get more than a minute or two into the Tutorials without feeling like everyone starts speaking in a different language; the mouse cursor starts moving and clicking on different Gauges, Buttons and such, click this, then that, but don't forget to click here before... crisscrossing lines get drawn on the Nav Map, and I end up totally lost. TMO? RFB?

Honestly, am I approaching this the wrong way, or am I really missing something?

Help! :oops:



Alan :salute:



Mods are modifications, created by players in the community, to bring about
a better, more historically accurate, bug free SH 4 experience. There are thousands of individual mods that may correct one little thing like a periscope lens. Then there are mods the combine a lot of things together to
form a "supermod. After some time in SH 4, you will want to move onto mods, because the "stock" ie out of the box sim is pretty terrible.


TMO is Trigger Maru Overhauled, a super mod. Created by Ducimus, who unfortunately is no longer active in the community, it is one of the great mods for SH 4. Since he is not longer active, mod aged and needed a facelift, since so much has developed for SH 4 last few years, so took over and recently released TMO Update BH, which is the latest version of TMO. Things add are too numerous to list but it added many new ships, planes, ability to finally conduct realistic night time surface attacks as US subs did, which has been impossible until now. V 2.0 will be released soon. A major trademark of TMO is its difficulty, the AI is tougher, so much more of a challenge, more danger from aircraft, enemy escorts, and now submerged AI submarines which can fire torpedoes.


RFB is another supermod, but its scope was mostly limited to just reworking the player controlled submarines themselves, did not touch the campaign, ship traffic etc that much. Although with RSRD(Run Silent Run Deep) mod, did have a great experience. Problem is, RFB team has not been active for years, RFB needs facelift as it feels dated.


FOTRS (Fall of the Rising Sun) FOTRS is a newer supermod and is the new standard for SH 4. The work the FOTRS team has done is simply amazing and has been a huge help for me as I reworked TMO, learned things. Not a difficult mod though, but great experience. TMO has things such as AI torpedo firing subs thanks to FOTRS. They just released a update.


You will find most players are running mods because as said, stock is just terrible for long term play. However, get some time in stock under your belt before trying to move on to mods.


Far as learning to shoot, just breath first lol. This is a simulation, not a arcade game, so there is much more of a learning curve involved.


First, if you have not, read the manual, specifically on targeting. While manuals that come with are sometimes incorrect such as talking about features that were meant to be included but were not in final product, and UBI did not bother to change the manuals, I recall the manual ws helpful learning basics of shooting torpedoes....such as how to use the TDC(Torpedo Data Computer) and PK (Position Keeper). If youre running with auto target, its pretty much point and shoot. If trying to get real and do manual targeting, it will help even more. Either way, read the manual.

Yes, mouse clicking different dials etc to enter firing data, make torpedoes ready etc are part of making a attack. Even with auto target which in a way arcade style point and shoot, have to con your boat into correct position, make sure torpedo tubes are open (Q key, the torpedo panel is to the right when in periscope, TBT or attack map view)

What do you find so confusing exactly when it comes to firing torpedoes?

[USS CUTTHROAT SS-365]

Bubblehead1980,

Thank you so much for your Reply, and the thorough explanations!

After sleeping on it for a night, I came to the conclusion that my issues come strictly from trying (or wanting) to get too ahead of myself. I'm wanting to get into the hunt and I'm trying to fire torpedoes without knowing or understanding the underlying theories behind making a successful MANUAL Firing Solution.

It's a simple case of putting the cart before the horse, and the end result is that I have a lot, lot more to learn before I even attempt to think about Manual Targeting! That's why Submarine School is part of the Sim...

Read the Manual, read the Manual, read the Manual. I have to learn how to crawl before learning to walk. Nothing is truer than your statement. :up:

Thanks again!

Alan :salute:

[John Pancoast]

Have to remember; unlike reality, in the game you're doing the duties of a handful of crew members all at the same time.
Maybe try learning one function at a time and/or use the game aids. Per the above, nothing wrong with getting some of the help the game provides.

[Bubblehead1980]

Have to remember; unlike reality, in the game you're doing the duties of a handful of crew members all at the same time.
Maybe try learning one function at a time and/or use the game aids. Per the above, nothing wrong with getting some of the help the game provides.


Valid point. The the player, as the Captain, also handles duties of the XO (co-approach officer), the TDC operator, plot. Sometimes to get accurate picture have to man sound and or radar at some point.

[Bubblehead1980]

Bubblehead1980,

Thank you so much for your Reply, and the thorough explanations!

After sleeping on it for a night, I came to the conclusion that my issues come strictly from trying (or wanting) to get too ahead of myself. I'm wanting to get into the hunt and I'm trying to fire torpedoes without knowing or understanding the underlying theories behind making a successful MANUAL Firing Solution.

It's a simple case of putting the cart before the horse, and the end result is that I have a lot, lot more to learn before I even attempt to think about Manual Targeting! That's why Submarine School is part of the Sim...

Read the Manual, read the Manual, read the Manual. I have to learn how to crawl before learning to walk. Nothing is truer than your statement. :up:

Thanks again!

Alan :salute:


You're welcome, I figured it would be like that, it happens often. Honestly, I was guilty of it back in 2008/2009 when started with SH 4. I quickly realized had to crawl before could walk but thanks to a excellent community here, I caught on pretty quick.

Aside from the manual, especially, the part of operating the TDC/PK, targeting/firing torpedoes. Supplement your basic knowledge with reading


"CLEAR THE BRIDGE!" and WAHOO! by Rear Admiral Richard O Kane. O Kane was CO of USS Tang and XO on the USS Wahoo under "Mush" Morton during the war and considered top US Submarine CO of the war.

O Kanes memoirs actually explain firing procedures and have great diagrams in there.


THUNDER BELOW by Admiral Eugene B. Fluckey, CO of USS Barb, another top skipper.


Silent Victory by Clay Blair
Published first in 1975 but I believe has been updated.

In depth review of submarine war in the paciifc.


Torpedoman by Ron Smith, gives the enlisted perspective in this memoir.
Smith was on the USS Seal SS-183, one of the older boats.


Submarine Operations in WW II by Theodore Roscoe. Published long ago so its dated in some ways, such as some subs missing then have since located on ocean floor etc but still great piece of work.


The memoirs give great first hand accounts and include important information as mentioned and are quite enjoyable.

Also, you can rad the actual war patrol reports filed by CO's after patrol at:

https://www.hnsa.org/manuals-documents/submarine-war-patrol-reports/

Also, you can learn from other skippers in SH 4 by reading patrol reports and experiences at the link below. In real life, the patrol reports were kept available for sub captains and officers, circulated so they could learn from one another.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107786



All serve to give a great base of knowledge, much of which can be applied to this sim, especially in the mods. I know in TMO Update I worked to make as much of real world tactics applicable, more than already were to the sim.


Finally,

Don't give up because even after years, frustration is still part of the SH 4 experience lol .This held true for actual submariners as well. Nothing like having the perfect shot at a rare target like a carrier and torpedoed malfunctioning, or locating perfect target, but not in deal position, and due to limitations of submarine, cant get into position or other numerous factors conspiring to prevent your glory lol. Then, you have those "I love it when a plan comes together" moments and things work out. Patrolling for days on end with no contacts, then boom comes a convoy end up in a 48-72 hour running battle with, expending all torpedoes, sinking some ships. Really is a lot of fun, worth learning the sim so can get to that point.

[John Pancoast]

Great links Bubblehead1980 ! :up:

[1Patriotofmany]

I suggest starting with baby level, auto targeting ect, very little realistic checks. Once you get the hang of that, then move on, I've never even played the manual targeting and I've had the game since it came out.

[USS CUTTHROAT SS-365]

Thanks to all for the Tips! And thanks again to Bubblehead1980 for all of the Links!

I have copies of Wahoo and Silent Victory, and lots of Patrol Logs to read! :yeah:

Alan :salute:

[Bubblehead1980]

Thanks to all for the Tips! And thanks again to Bubblehead1980 for all of the Links!

I have copies of Wahoo and Silent Victory, and lots of Patrol Logs to read! :yeah:

Alan :salute:



You're welcome.


I enjoy the patrol reports because it gives a first hand view, frozen in time of what happened from their perspective, no hindsight as the war was in progress and things confirmed post war were not known. Since that should be the perspective we are operating from in a simulation, its helpful to get it.

In TMO, i have tried to create a environment from that perspective. Sometimes, bad intel comes from COMSUBPAC, that may send player on a wild goose chase, or lack of intel that would be useful. Intel do receive rarely gives "godlike" knowledge sometimes get.

This combined with operating on 100 difficulty without the external cam, where you situational awareness is basically what you see through the periscope , heard on sound, if have radar get on radar, and if learn to operate without the map contact updates, lol Pretty decent simulation of things.

[USS CUTTHROAT SS-365]

As 1patriot suggested,, I should start out in Baby mode and work my way up from there.

Started re-reading Wahoo last night; O'Kane sure knew how to keep the reader engaged!

I might have to watch "Silent Service" tonight... :O:

Alan :salute:

[Bubblehead1980]

As 1patriot suggested,, I should start out in Baby mode and work my way up from there.

Started re-reading Wahoo last night; O'Kane sure knew how to keep the reader engaged!

I might have to watch "Silent Service" tonight... :O:

Alan :salute:


Yes he did. The portion dealing with the destroyer in Wewak and the convoy they attacked a few days later, really exciting stuff. Have you read "CLEAR THE BRIDGE!" by O Kane? Covers his time in command of TANG, as a POW. GReat as Wahoo is, its even better.