Sampans, Junks and Fishing Boats

[Zero Niner]

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

[kapuhy]

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.


You might find this interesting - from here::

https://ww2days-com.translate.goog/navy-okays-attacks-on-junks-sampans-3.html?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pl&_x_tr_pto=op,sc

In mid-March 1942 the USS Pollack made the first sub­marine attack on a war patrol using its three-inch deck gun and a .50-caliber machine gun. The objects of the sur­face attack were two Japa­nese sam­pans, pre­sum­ably civil­ian craft and unarmed. During 1942 U.S. sub­marines reported 34 attacks on sam­pans, trawlers, and a schooner. The num­ber of attacks increased to 80 in 1943, the year that U.S. Seventh Fleet Bul­le­tin No. 15, issued on this date, approved sub­marine deck gun attacks against “Chin­ese” junks, schooners, and other small ves­sels. Their sinking over the long haul would pro­duce im­pres­sive results, the bul­le­tin pro­phe­sized. With mounting ship­ping losses to their large cargo ships (less than 1 mil­lion tons lost at the end of 1942, 1.77 mil­lion tons at the end of 1943, and 2.5 million tons through 1944), the Japa­nese in­creas­ingly resorted to smaller craft to trans­port person­nel; fuel, food, raw, and finished mate­rials; and mili­tary equip­ment between their Home Islands and their south­ern resource areas and island gar­ri­sons. Small craft were also engaged in trans­porting goods along the coasts of their Home Islands due to the coun­try’s under­developed rail­way system and rudi­men­tary roads. From 1944 to 1945, with fewer and fewer large Japa­nese ships in the region, the num­ber of deck gun attacks by U.S., British, and Dutch sub­marines on smaller craft doubled, from 508 to 1,044, with more than half being Amer­i­can kills. By war’s end most large Japa­nese fishing vessels, junks, schooners, traw­lers, and coasters in South­east Asia had been destroyed in the con­text of “total war” against the Japa­nese empire. Through­out the Pacific war the issue of whether to attack and sink defense­less or lightly armed small craft using deck guns remained a per­sis­tent moral and tacti­cal dilem­ma for Allied skippers and sea­men—because doing so meant killing crews (often made up of multi­ple Asian nationalities and often with their families) close up and face-to-face.

[Mad Mardigan]

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

Depending on the size of the small craft (tonnage wise) would depend on how I'd approach it, targeting it or them, for destruction... seem to recall some skippers (not all did..) would sink them, as they came across them.

Believe this was owing to, if left to their own devices... they'd have likely reported their presence...

With Bubbleheads TMOverhauled v2.5, can turn the anti air guns loose on them... with FotRS-U v1.46... think using the same gun (done manually) does do damages... with having the crew man the deck gun... making fairly quick work of them, post haste... then beating a hasty retreat from the area.

That's how I roll with running across them... on occasion, if I feel that the distance is far enough, I'll sometimes dive... & burn rubber departing the area, as well... just depends on how I see the situation, at the time.

Hope this info helps provide a useful enough base if info, for you to decide how you wish to deal with them, after this... as it goes... it's all up to you, on how you decide to deal (or don't deal) with them... your choice. :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

[LUKNER]

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.




In 1945, small vessels were destroyed indiscriminately in the waters of Japan. I don't know how legible boat commanders in other places were.

[1Patriotofmany]

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

[Mad Mardigan]

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

Seem to recall that, as well...

think, FotRS_U has a few that do... TMOverhauled v2.5BH, may... I think... after that... My... memory is starting to get a bit... fuzzy, about the edges. :hmmm: :doh: :oops: :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

In home waters and off Korea I sink them, because in TMO all fishing boats sampans etc Japanese, fishing boats feed the war effort in home islands, same reason were often attacked in real life. Many are armed and will open fire, plus they will use radio to report your position which will bring aircraft and ASW patrol vessels.

Off China, Indochina, occupied Philippines etc the boats are usually not Japanese, to make it so they are not attacked, I made them neutral, so unless they act strange such as trying to avoid my sub, or if via visual inspection noticed they are armed, I will let them go and not attack. No sense in sinking some poor chinese fisherman's boat.


In upcoming version of TMO Update, much as in real life, they become a focus of mission orders in later war, since a lack of large merchants left japanese resorting to using these vessels to run cargo in the home islands as well as pickets (which many did in the entire war) , and included extra ammo for deck and AA guns (since AA guns will now fire at surface targets) for these "picket sweeps"

I did not add flags because want the player to have to really ponder if they want to attack.

[KaleunMarco]

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

crab boats have sonar and weapons.
either sink 'em or avoid 'em.

[fitzcarraldo]

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

My politic is simple: Sink'em'all!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :Kaleun_Salute:

[1Patriotofmany]

Seem to recall that, as well...

think, FotRS_U has a few that do... TMOverhauled v2.5BH, may... I think... after that... My... memory is starting to get a bit... fuzzy, about the edges. :hmmm: :doh: :oops: :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M. HEHE exactly......:har: In any case my policy is I don't get too close and I dispatch them.

[gandyrail]

They shoot at me and I can take damage. Sucks to start leaking fuel or get battery damage.
I used to put a shell or two in them an then run them over. New mods I get damaged doing that.
Not sure I should get damaged by small arms fire but there you go. The game does not handle the sub punching a hole in a wood sampan correctly in my opinion.

[Schiffmorder]

I sink anything I find that looks Japanese. At a minimum it is providing food for the enemy. It could also be a picket or hauling war materiel.

[phooey]

Honestly I'll just save my deck gun ammo for bigger target, but yeah they're aircraft magnet.

[Armistead]

Think in most mods you just see them around Japan and usually rated Japan in the traffic and they will report you and fire on you if armed.

[Angel4532]

I am trying to figure out why the 20mm and .50 cal do no damage to these in the Stock version.

[KaleunMarco]

I am trying to figure out why the 20mm and .50 cal do no damage to these in the Stock version.

that is because the damage effect of the ammo to the ship is minimal.
one would need to adjust the damage effect factors of the 50 cal and 20mm.
be careful if you do that because both sides use 20mm ammo.:03:

there are several ammo mods in the MODS folder or, you can create your own minimod in order to customize your ammo.

good luck!

[Angel4532]

Thank you