How realistic is Sim Racing? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Threadfin

10-14-21, 09:54 AM

I'll need to watch the video later. Is it Max giving the opinion?

I can't know what he goes on to say, but yes, sim racing is awesome. I've been a sim racer since the early 90s. My first real racing sim was Papyrus' Indy Car. Then Indy Car 2, then Grand Prix 2, on to GPL, GTR, the EA F1 games (like F1 Challenge 99-02), Papy's NASCAR games (especially NASCAR 2003).

I've skipped a few popular ones like iRacing and rFactor, and now my sim of choice is Codemaster's F1 2021. I love it and run a couple races a week in career modes. The genre has come so far, and seemingly simple things like the ability to use voice to communicate with your pitwall and dynamic weather have a dramatic effect on the experience.

I've been simming for a long time now. Two things in all those decades stand out as the best experiences I've had in this hobby. One is my time in Falcon 4, especially MP campaigns with my friends and squadron mates. The other is running online GPL leagues. For a number of years I ran Frugalsworld's GPL leagues, and there's been little in my life that I have approached with as much dedication and commitment as I did with GPL. If I had put just a fraction of that much effort in to say, my marriage, I would probably still gotten divorced but it would have lasted longer! haha

The memories, the competition, the camaraderie from those leagues were fantastic and I miss it to this day. Great people, and great times.

It was about a year ago Tuesday that I found F1 2020. I documented my experience in a thread over at SimHQ. If anyone is interested in my take on all aspects of this sim, particularly the career modes, you can read it here

F1 2020/21 Thread @ SimHQ (https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4540525/f1-2020-the-sim#Post4540525)

Skybird

10-15-21, 08:37 AM

Falcon 4, Frugalsworld, I hear you. My serious time with Falcon was the RP series, espoecially 3-5, and then a revivla some yars later with allied Force. Some of my best PC sim experiences. Later then, both Steel beasts Pro and sim racing took ovr from my sim flying (FS2002, 2004, X).

My racing sims of choice are Assetto Corsa, AC Competizione and Raceroom. I use VR exlcusively, and mid-range Fanatec wheel and their pro pedals. No VR, no drive - once VR, always VR. No way back. Competizione at night in thunderstorm and VR is frightening, an experience second to none in PC simming. Only seeing is believing.

Other highlights of my sim racing career were Grand Prix 1 Amiga and Gran Prix 3 PC, Nascar Season 2003, GTR2. There were more, but these stand out.

Threadfin

10-15-21, 09:07 AM

You've got good gear. I've been using the red Momo wheel for nearly twenty years now. I bought three of them actually, so that if one ever went down I'd have a backup so I wouldn't miss that week's GPL race :)

Aside from Raceroom and the civie flight sims (never did get in to them) I've played all of those too. GP1! That's starting at the ground floor haha.

Yeah, I was on Frug's staff from the start, back when we were known more for XCom than Falcon 4. But it didn't take long before F4 became the thing Frug's was best known for, the center of the F4 community if I may be so bold. Too bad it's gone now.

I started my MP racing with a great group at a little-known site called Crash Test Dummies. We did GPL and the first GTR sim mostly. But then we migrated it all over to Frugs and I set up our GPL leagues. We ran the '67 and '65 cars.

We had drivers from all over the world. Austraila, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, England, Scotland, United States, and it was a truly remarkable that we could all come together on Saturday nights (Sunday morning down under). To be in with such a global group blew my mind. The fastest driver was a German, a man named Frank Steinbach. In those days we used the term 'alien' to describe drivers whose ability seemed out of this world. Frank was the apex alien haha. So fast in fact that he would intentionally handicap himself and drive the Cooper or the BRM or the White Whale while the rest of us drove Lotii, Eagles and Ferraris. The Eagle was my weapon of choice, because as we all know it was the finest Formula 1 car of all time. The Brabham was my '65 car for league racing.

So yes, now it's F1 2021, which I have a blast with. The reasons are all spelled out in the thread I linked to above so no need to repeat it. I'm a massive fan of the sport, never miss a race, and I love having my own Formula 1 fantasy world to live in, where I feel like a rising star on the biggest stage in motorsport. And by the way, Codemasters has recently released both Portimao and Imola as free DLC tracks since they were not ready in time for July's game launch.

Yeah, sim racing is good :)

mapuc

10-15-21, 09:13 AM

Realisme isn't only what's in the game-such as graphic a.s.o it's also what things the player has.

Playing a race sim with your keyboard isn't exactly fun.

Markus

Skybird

10-15-21, 10:20 AM

Threadfin, you should try out Raceroom. It has gone a longer way than any other sim out there, maybe. After SimBin' collapse the sim wea spoicke dup and redone froms cratch by suriovivors of that desaster. I came to it when that happened, and I never regretted it.

The best sim for GT3 and GT4 class, is Competizione. In these domains, Competizione reigns, is second to none. Cockpit immersion is overwhelming, too (talking from VR perspective).

Assetto Corsa Classic is still a superb platform and has one overwhelming argument in its favour: modding, tracks. When they released their tech demonstrator with the Lotus Elise, I think, in 2013, I was hooked from day one on. It was lightyears ahead of any driving sim I had tried until then.

That both Raceroom's and Assetto Corsa's physics gurus both hold eal world racing licenses and have experience (Raceroom's Alex Hodgkinson logged his first training laps in courses together with a certain David Hamilton...), and also studied the physics and engineering aspect of the business, unites for both sims practical driving experience and mathematical background knowledge. And this shows. Better it does not get: theory meets practice, practice meets theory.

Threadfin

10-15-21, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have Assetto Corsa, the original. It's good, but never quite lit my fire. I think the reason is I get the most enjoyment out of robust career modes, which a sim like F1 2021 does well.

I like sports cars, GT cars and that sort of thing fine. But having a compelling career mode is the most important thing for me, it's the same as flight sims or anything really.

Even a game like Combat Mission which is great, I only play campaigns, never single scenarios. This carries over through most of my simming. And unfortunately perhaps, some games get ignored as a result. DCS is a victim, as the devs never have understood how to give the player the proper playground for their amazing models. On the other hand I still fly Falcon 4 and maybe always will. I can easily wave aside fidelity issues in exchange for good career modes in all of these sims.

Skybird

10-15-21, 01:51 PM

You can define your very own seasons/time tables both in ASC and RR. Length of seaosn, circuits, cars, race lengths, pitting or not, all can be set by you. Or join a seaosn table when preferring online. For the latter dont ask me, i don't play online much. Competizione has a championship mode, too, but I never tasted it. But hey, Competizione is the official title for the Blancpain series, so... go figure.

I did complete season championships in Grand Prix 1 ( :) ), and years ago i did two DTM seasons in Raceroom.

mapuc

10-15-21, 03:19 PM

I've tried this Raceroom, playing it with the keyboard isn't fun.

On my wish list this Christmas is steering wheel and pedal.

Markus

Skybird

10-15-21, 03:46 PM

mapuc

10-15-21, 03:50 PM

A G29 already gets you started. Quality pedals are priority, especially brake pedal, for the reasons explained in the video. Good wheel does not make you faster (but raises immersion and enjoyability), good brake pedal does.

It seems we had this conversation some months ago? Or was it somebody else?

No it was you and me who had this discussion.

Since my mom and my sister ain't rich I can not wish for some expensive equipment.

Markus

Threadfin

10-16-21, 09:57 AM

Your mom and sister?

For many years I've been in to racing sims, as mentioned above. I have a good wheel and pedals set. Works great. But it's bulky, and in the way when I'm not actually racing. The pedals must displace my Crosswinds. Logistically, it's inconvenient (what a struggle eh?) So in a sense it's a bit of a pain in the rear to keep setting it up and putting it away when I'm done racing.

When I bought F1 2020 a year ago I thought I'd just see if I could get on with a controller. I didn't expect I'd like it. I watched a comparison video of a split screen between a driver using a wheel and one using a controller, and I could not tell which was which. I expected the wheel driver to be smooth, and the controller to reveal itself with hesitating movement as the driver makes constant adjustments with digital instead of analog input.

It took some time and number of laps to tweak the settings to find the right ones for me. And that was that. I've raced F1 2020/21 with a controller since. I know from experience it does not translate so seamlessly in all racing sims, but in this one it works marvelously well. I'm using a USB X Box controller that cost like $20. So, depending on the sim, you might find you don't need an expensive wheel/pedal setup to get started. YMMV.

It's really a comfortable way to go for me, not only avoiding the peripheral dance, but I also don't need to maintain any particular seating attitude, I never would have guessed I'd be racing a sim this way, but I do.

Skybird

10-16-21, 10:47 AM

If a gamepad controller, then one where not the ministicks must be used for steering, but where, like on the PS4 with Gran Turismo, the pad gets held like a wheel and moved alltogether for steering, they call it motion control I think (and the PS game must be coded for using it). I found it to work surprisingly well in GT Sports. Not as good as a wheel, but way better than those fiddly titsy tiny microsticks. Their movement range is so small that you notoriously overdose the input.

Skybird

11-18-21, 02:14 PM

Black Friday, here I come. Its time to start wrecking them in style, and so I placed an order for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59cbxbE_ba8

By Fanatec standards its entry level. With 200 coins, the price is acceptable, more I would not pay for a wheel rim. Also, its light and thus matches well with my CSL wheelbase. Another point is I can use the functionality blindly and must not waste sexy looks for which i nevertheless have to pay - I drive with a VR mask on, so i do not marvel at the wheel during the ride, I see a photoreal virtual wheel instead.

mapuc

11-18-21, 04:21 PM

Going to uninstall my Race Room.

Having these 5-7 sec. black screen before and after having played, is something I don't like. Made me remember the problem I had with Farming Simulator 17 and 19-Here I also had these 5-7 sec. black screen and often I got the message No-Signal on my monitor.

I'm not an computer expert-But it looks like the computer has problem hocking on the game and after release and hock up on ordinary computer(don't know how I else shall explain it.

So far it's only ETS2 and ATS I can play without any black screen.

Sad, even though it wasn't that fun to play Race Room It was interesting to play I'm planning on buying a Steering wheel(If I don't get on for Christmas) and pedal to my ETS2 and ATS.

Markus

Skybird

11-23-21, 11:05 AM

Heavens save me, I turned into a pervert - I fell in love with a machine part...! :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBEpDmTMtro

First impression is outstanding, awesome. I think I know nothing and have never seen anything about any other Fanatec item with such a positive price-value balance. Looks and feels are incredibly good in reality considering that it is - plastic. You hardly believe it. Its as wide as the old round rim I used, and even is 30 gramns lighter. That is good, becaise I have only a low-end wheel base by Fanatec standard, the CSL Elite. That motor moves this wheel as fast and powerful as the othe rim.

Very happy customer. Highly recommended product, especially for this price. Hard to imagine how to get more bang for the buck.

And I finally can opt for an analogue handbrake...! :D :yeah: Wait, TWO handbrakes, one in front and one at the rear...!!! :har:

Better callibration, setting up in-wheel options , establishing simulation profiles, and recapping the buttons and get rid of the toyish look of Xbox buttons and putting button labels on it is next. Tomorrow.

The rotaries have a very solid, high quality feel. The big two buttons in the top corners are thumb-bone breakers!

Threadfin

11-24-21, 10:41 AM

That's really nice, congrats. That would be perfect in my F1 sim. It would be so much better to dial in brake bias and differentials and fuel mix with rotaries than trying to navigate LCD menus at speed.

Skybird

11-26-21, 07:21 AM

Setting it up, callibrating, programming for ACC now is done. I like the wheel, and ver ymuch, its incredibly much bang for the buck, even when consideirng that to the price for the wheel the costs of the mount must be added, it is not included with this one.

https://i.postimg.cc/sxgfBB41/20211126-114228.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TLBvF3SX)

https://i.postimg.cc/MG1pgJGZ/20211126-114144.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WDbVJKrx)

The stickers and button caps all were included, but there is a separate set of labels and coloured button caps avisalable for even more extensive setups. Costly, but thigns are wiorth whast people will to pay for it. I give the link, its at least interesting that such things are available.

https://fanatec.com/eu-de/accessories/steering-wheel-accessories/button-caps-and-sticker-set

They have black friday sales until end of the month, and some interetsing entry level offers, especially the R300 wheelrim combined with the CSL hub look intereszing, its 200 instead of 300 coins. Mind you, the wheelbase is not included. For Fanatec standards, its a steal.

https://static.mydealz.de/threads/raw/DJ1SR/1889562_1/fs/895x577/qt/65/1889562_1.jpg

And then there is their new BMW wheel for 1800 coins, which is a total and complete original 1:1 replica, design wise and functionality-wise. (My GT3 wheel is a replica, too, but has two differences, where it has a small OLED display, the real wheel has a forth rotary, and the X-box button in the right bottom corner that I mapped for VR recentering and camera change on my wheel - ACC allows maping of up to four functions on one button - , is missing, else it is identical to the real one). Take it off your PC, take it to the real world track, plug it into a real BMW, and drive with full functionality. What is that? The redefinition of "immersion"! :D No joke, both Fanatec advertize that you could do this. If you own that BMW. There is a hook in anything.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/052d18_f477f7736fe24c8880bb95a3d0509637~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_740,h_416,al_c,q_90/052d18_f477f7736fe24c8880bb95a3d0509637~mv2.webp

They also raised the curtain over the long kept secret, Fanatex now pürovides the offically licenses Playstation Grand Turismo wheel. Its ther wheel, pedla shiftes on it, wheelbase and pedal set (2). Available in four combinations (2 pedal combos, two wheelbases), the cheapest combination nevertheless will cost the player 700 coins. It looks not bad, but for that lot of money I would nevertheless prefer a wheel looking less toyish and fanatsy-driven.

And yes, I am a wheel junkey, I do not collect them or own many, just two, but already as a little kid I painted my own wheel and dashboard and glued it to the back of the carseat of my father when we were in the car, and then I "driove". Looking at different complex wheel designs just turns me on. Its not the driving, actually I have amost no interets inc ars and I do nopt own a car nor do I drive (and have no need to do so, btw), its the gadget itself. I just like HOTAS things and the technology behind such things. That would turn me probably more into an engineer than driver.

However, I love to drive racing, in sims.

I do not like alcoghol-free beer, tastes not good. I do not like white beer, tastes awful. But I like acohol-free white beer, and prefer it over normal alcoholic beer. You see the pattern. :D

Threadfin

01-21-22, 10:58 AM

Those are really nice wheels. Maybe one day I'll move on from my red Momo. Maybe! But yeah, it would be nice to move forward to this century.

However, I love to drive racing, in sims.Me too. I'm still running F1 2021, several seasons deep in a career. Great sim.

But just before Christmas I had an inspired moment. I was on Steam, having a bash about, looking for a new game to carry me through my Christmas break. I zeroed in on Forza Horizon 5. I had bought FH4 for my son and his X Box, but hadn't played the series myself. He also plays NFS, The Crew, Drive Club so I knew what to expect in a general sense. We had a lot of fun doing head to head racing in hot hatches in Drive Club.

So I took the plunge on FH5, reviews are excellent and it looked like fun. And I really like it. I've dropped a couple hundred hours in it already, have nearly 400 cars and every single Ferrari in the game!

It's leaning toward the arcade side of course, but the driving feels great. The performance modification and chassis setup options are extensive, deeper than what you get in F1 2021 anyway. I really like the sprint racing (point to point) and most of the content really. The blend of solo and MP is in a great place. A fun game that I'm glad I took a chance on. For a purist sim-head racer it's a shift, but I'm having a blast with it. It looks fantastic, runs great and there's lots to do. Over 500 cars, and the game just throws them at you.

My main whip, Ferrari 458 Speciale

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/40128/filename/458sSmoked.jpg

Skybird

01-21-22, 11:53 AM

Why not? Myself, I too have somewhat shifted a bit from ultra-realism to immersion, meaning: if the immersion works nevertheless, it can deceive you over the lack of ultra-realism. I have become more relaxed about "realism".

The only thing I find difficult to forgive, is lame AI. I rate RR's AI as the best, but over the past year or so I red a lot of good about the new AI they develop in iR. too, that it is a competent rumble-raiser, but also errs, like a human. But I do not know iR, by idea and design its not for me. I have more stuff to drive than I could frequently drive anyway... :) Don'T need more.

Threadfin

01-21-22, 12:29 PM

Same here, no longer counting rivets haha.

And it's true across the board with my gaming, from sim purist to gamer. And it's great, because it results in trying things like Forza, which I would not have ten years ago. I came up through the Papy era with Indy Car and GPL and those were my frames of reference. And those sorts of sims still rock, but my pool is deeper now and there are more diverse things to branch out in to and have fun with.

I can draw a similar parallel in war gaming. I was a historical snob. Like with Total War, a series I love, with a winning formula. Turned my nose up at Warhammer, until one day I thought, well why IS that? So I tried Warhammer 2 and was blown away and it became my favorite title in the series.

And while Forza will not supplant GPL in my mind, it's a diverse, fun driving game that I would have ignored had my paradigm not shifted. Now, everything is fair game, and it's nice to have so many options.

Skybird

01-21-22, 03:51 PM

I would try Forza 5, if only it had VR. But both the developer and the bosses of XBox have ruled it out.

Skybird

02-03-22, 03:12 PM

Its hilarious how much fun this super-structured but not easy-to-win game is: Circuit Superstars. Its supercute., and incopldues a level of polish and charming detials that one would nto expect from a fun racer like this, incoduing cutely animated pitstops and replays with varying TV camera angles. I got it cheap in a sale, and did not expect to like it that much. But I like it! I appreciate the over-all impresison and "roundness" (completeness) of the package. Its like playing "Carrera Plus". For six coins, nobody can complain! Highlights include great replay options, damage, tyre and fuel modelling, pitstops, many different classes with cars indeed having different feels and physics, and up to four players on split screen. Must be a party and family burner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmaeHe-Vsc

Threadfin

04-11-22, 11:05 PM

Skybird. I appreciate you posting about that GT3 wheel. I'm looking at it now myself, but I've not owned Fanatec and I have more to learn. Tell me about your setup. I need the works. Wheel, or rim as it seems to be called, a base, pedals. Paddles are fine, not looking for a stick unless I return to GPL, or even rally, perhaps. I mostly drive/race F1 and GT/Super/Hyper cars and paddles are fine. I see it has dual paddles, and I could see one set for gears, and the other for maybe launch control. What do you use the second set for?

The base you have in your images isn't what I've seen. And that is clamped to your desk?

Any more thoughts now that you've been using it for a longer time?

Threadfin

04-12-22, 08:07 AM

I also watched that video you linked to and I'm impressed. Excellent commentary and camera work. For what I drive, this wheel ticks all the boxes, and would let me get in to the Fanatec game at a lower entry point. The modular quick release nature of the system means you can own a variety of rims, if the pockets are deep enough, and just swap to the most suitable one for the class you're racing at the moment.

This is a GT style wheel and would work great for those cars and for open wheel. With no hoop it's unsuited for serious rally racing I think, but still fine. And no reason other than the mad stacks of cash that a serious sim racer couldn't have several lying around.

I don't rally and one wheel is plenty. I do open wheel Formula 1 and GT style racing and the McLaren wheel seems perfect for me. I'm still unsure of which base to get out of all the options. This rim works with a dozen different base choices. I'm hoping for one with desk-mount and stand-mount capability, if that's possible. Direct drive is probably a bit too much.

I also think it's smart to get a three-pedal set. I don't need a clutch with the stuff I'm driving, and I guess the second set of paddles is perfect to use as a clutch, but somewhere down the line I'll wish I had a foot pedal clutch option.

Add it all up and this is approaching US$1000 I reckon. And this is the entry point with Fanatec. But watch that video Skybird linked to and you'd have to say it's worth it.

Threadfin

04-12-22, 10:12 AM

I ran the rule over all of the options on Fanatec's site, but either high demand or slow production -- or a combination of the two -- means they're sold out of a lot of things, and I guess only sell direct?

I want a Fanatec wheel, but I'm going to change course and reign in my ambition a bit and go for something like Thrustmaster's T248.

That's a great wheel you have Skybird and thanks for the info. Still interested to hear your thoughts on it.

Threadfin

04-14-22, 08:26 AM

Skybird's been 'online' for days now but no reply here? You OK mate? No obligation to reply, but I expected you to want to talk about your rig. No worries, but hope all's OK.

I did get the T248 wheel and pedals. Not on the level of the Fanatec stuff, but really nice all the same. Great set of pedals which is what put it over the top for me.

I started off looking at Fanatec, and was ready to go for it, went through their configurator, and when I got to the base I found it was out of stock. I was prepared to blow $1000 on this kit. But when it wasn't available I changed course.

I also looked at two other high end brands, Precision Engineering and Ascher. This is amazing gear, it really is. I mean look at this

https://www.precisionsimengineering.com/

And I thought Fanatec was high end! ha!

So once I changed course I dropped in to the mid-range. wheels in the $400 range. It came down to three wheels for me, the Logitech G923 Trueforce, Thrustmaster T300 RS GT Edition and the Thrustmaster T248.

These wheels move away from the direct drive force feedback, and that's a big part of what you give up in this range. But I know that even so it will be the best FFB I've experienced considering what I've used so far. In the faceoff between those three options the T248 was the winner for four main reasons.

One, the price I spotted it at was hard to beat. Pricing is out of control these days, and over the past few days while I did my search I was steeled for spending a grand. So to find an agreeable option for $300 was good.

Two, the FFB is hybrid belt and gear, which gave it the edge for me over the G923. By making the move to a new wheel I am hoping to improve my driving, bring laptimes down through proper gear. I expect force feedback will be a big part of that. I think if I can go X amount of fast without any feel from the car and track, that having those indicators can only make me better. Belt driven is generally regarded as better than gear it seems, but worse than direct. So this was a slight edge in my decision, even if it's only a hybrid system.

Three, the paddles are magnetic.These are like the Hall sensors I put in my flight gear, no contact points, all magnetic so they retain accuracy and don't wear out over time like traditional pots do.

And fourth, the pedals that are included are said to be good, and improved over other recent offerings. These are also magnetic and that's what I want. And I get a clutch pedal.

So I chose the T248 over the G923 for better force feedback (hybrid belt and gear over all-gear) and chose the T248 over the T300 for the superior pedals in the bundle. If the T248 had been at regular price of $400 and if the T300 had the same pedal set I would have gone for the T300.

The kit has arrived, setup was straight forward and I've turned some laps. Nice wheel and I really like the pedals. However I need to work out a mounting solution and until I do I won't be able to race seriously as the pedals rock. The brake takes quite a bit of force (and even comes with an additional spring to make it stiffer).

Oubaas

04-17-22, 02:06 PM

In answer to the title question, about as realistic as romantic intimacy in a PC game, LOL! :haha:

But, I grew up around racing and even did a little when I was young. And I like cars. So I occasionally indulge.

I have a Fanatec wheel, pedals, and shifter. If you're going to sim race, Fanatec gear is good stuff, in my humble opinion.

:Kaleun_Salute:

Threadfin

04-18-22, 02:02 PM

When it is in stock it sure is! I'd have one now if their production outpaced their sales.

Skybird

04-19-22, 01:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkVd0PMAWcM

Skybird

04-19-22, 01:28 PM

Got myself a second wheel rim after the light and cheap (round) PS4 rim got worn out with the gear pedals' mechanisms. I now use this and the GTR3 rim, depending on the kiund of cars I race/drive. Absolutely fantastic kit, but I must tailor the setups a bit more ideal to optimise the button markers for several titles. Extremely good quick release/connect mechanism, even on the fly while being in the sim. Heavy quality, it feels like real world stuff. I had to wait three months, with one further delay during that period.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhdKVPGB/20220419-201848.jpg (https://postimg.cc/647yMfDj)

Threadfin

04-20-22, 12:03 PM

I wrote four posts addressing you and your setup. No obligation to respond, but no reason for me to be here, it appears. Have fun with your new wheel.

Skybird

04-20-22, 05:17 PM

Threadfin,

I indeed missed your posts with those questions. Sorry that you waited in vain, I try to answer it now in no specific order. It was no intention, I just had not visited this thread for some time. And when I came back to post Chris' video adventure, i again missed your posts from mid April. Sorry.

Fanatec is costly compared to the usual toy-like wheels. They recently raised some prices due to the recent crisis. But there are much more expensive producers out there - their gear however primarily is aimed at full simulatgor stands with installed seats and so forth. I depend on being able to mount the kit and dismount it from the table easily. Well, stuff is worth what peope are willing to pay for. Some years ago I could not imagine to go for Fanatec, I thought it would be crazy to pay these prices. But VR changed my preferences dramatically. And so I wokred my way up on the price ladder, from No Name and Logitech to now Fanatec. Which will be the end of the ladder for me.

Fanatec suffers from the supply lags in shipping, they referred some months ago directly to the lacking shipping containers and the hilarious costs, when they reported their problems they talked of a price rise of factor 16 or 18 per shipping container. Also, the supply chains are disrupted.

For pedals, you asked, I would point you to the important pedal: the brake. You want something with load cells, and good, metal furnishing. A good brake pedal can make you faster. Just a wheel and rim and base will not, its immersion mostly. But the brake, if good, makes you faster. Becasue you will not "mis-brake" so easily.

Belt wheel bases they do not offer anymore, but they came up with two affordable - by their standards - minor direct drive wheelbases recently. "Minor" is relative, they are still so much stronger than the belt drives they once offered - and these already were good. The bigger brothers of these new kits are also still available.

The wheelbase you saw on the picture is an Elite CSL, it is out of production, I got it with a PC-PS4 wheel which is now retired (pedals worn out). It even deals easily with the new wheel though the new wheel is almost twice as heavy than the GTR3. I will use it until it breaks, I am satisfied with it.

The nice thing is both wheels can be changed on the fly, with the sim running. You may need to switch to another keymap, however, but you must not leave the sim to change hardware.

I recommend the GTR3 wheel, and also the new one which I got at a sale. They do these sometimes, and then offer combinations of products. Sometimes they are good, sometimes not so much, the quality i mean, but you can usually save 50-150 coins, and I did. How it is in the difficult economic environment we now have - I dont know their plans.

The second set of pedals on the GTR3 actually are analogue, no gear pedals, and you can code them for launch control, for example. I haven't, and actually do not use them, but I know that those who use them, are die hard fans of them. You can also map throttle and brake to them. But the nmost used purose is for launch control, to avoid stalling, or spinning the tyres. Some sims allow that to be considered. But as I said, i personally do not care. I drive more relaxed these days, less competitive.

Both wheels imo are very good bang for the buck. Good quality, good feel. I am satisfied .

The round wheel is, as you mentioned, for Dirt Rally 2, ETS2, Wreckfest and some cars in Assetto Corsa, Competizione and Raceroom, though I usually play all cars in Competizione with the GTR3 wheel, but some cars in it get dispalyed with a roudn wheel, others with a GT wheel. The round wheel has a massive, solid feel, it feels like the real thing. The GT3 weighs much less, still is very robust and stiff, no distortions when beings under stress, no toyish feel on it, really.

Again, sorry for letting you wait. It was a mishap, no bad intention. Sometimes I just miss something when it happens.

Threadfin

05-11-22, 02:27 PM

Yes, thanks for the reply and my apologies as well for assuming the worst when obviously nothing was intended.

For about a month now I've had a full racing rig. I bought a racing seat called an Open Wheeler Gen 3. I put the Fanatec stuff to the side when it proved hard to get due to supply issues. I bought a T248 instead. Decent wheel with great pedals. Having everything bolted down and so comfortable has really transformed things for me.

Are you a member at SimHQ? I know you used to hang around there right? We are doing some racing there and I'd like to invite you to participate if you like. We started a dedicated ACC private server. Yesterday we ran AMS2. Also bought rFactor 2 and will probably be picking up Race Room in the near future to round out my options. Attracting drivers has some inertia I must say, but I feel, like we're on the brink! Come join us if you want to. The one I drive with most is also from Germany (and an alien).

I'm having so much fun returning to sim racing that even though I only just got this wheel I already have designs on an upgrade. Thanks for your insight Skybird.

Skybird

05-11-22, 04:15 PM

SimHQ, well, now I feel old. Yes, i was aroudn there many, many years ago, but that must be fifteen years or so. Mostly Falcon 4 times when Frugals shut down and an other site also stopped. Combatsim, was that the name of that site? Time is fleeting. It were good times.

Congrats to yur cockpit build. I woudl do that myself, too, a fixe dsite for racing I mean, if I had the spacve, a sepaarte room. But then, using VR exclusively, my design priporities woudl be different, and for button boxes and such I would nto even have use anymore. I need buttons on wheels.

Raceroom offers a once-in-a-lifetime-pick. For - last time I checked - 100 coins you get ALL content they ever released: all cars, skins, tracks. That is so cheap that it stinks: 57 locations, 143 track variations, and cars and skins count in four digit numbers, I assume.

I drive AI practice trackday sessions these days, and sometimes a race against the AI. Races more in Raceroom (better AI), trackdays more in ACC (now that I got my problems that I had with its VR and my new headset fixed). ACC I often drive relaxed, just for cruising. It has some hilariously good track mods. Enjoying its superb cockpits in the high resolution VR I now use, is pure joy. Its very very rare you could see me online. If so, then in AC classic, and practically never in races, but trackdays/endless practices.

P.S. I posted on that fun top-down-looks racing game (LINK). Especially if you have friends or family and kids, I recommend this game, I - to my surprise - currently come back to it frequently. Not often, but frequently. There is somethign around it that makes me hysterically giggle. A round, good, fair priced fun package, really, done with love and a feelign for good style. Recommended for the racing snack in between! ;) Pitting has me not stopping laughing for minutes to come, becasue I suck at it. This game simply gives me a good mood. And I just love the replays. If squirrels would do car racing in matchbox toy cars - this it would look like!

Wreckfest in a virtual cinema on huge movie screen also is a blast. The game cannot be recognised this way, its Wreckfest 2.0 if used this way.

Threadfin

05-12-22, 11:06 AM

Skybird

05-12-22, 02:37 PM

Yes, the good old days. I was on Frugal's staff, not under the Threadfin moniker. I'm an old Falconite too.

Well too bad you won't take me up on the invitation, but I get it. Enjoy your racing Skybird.

10-15 years earlier - maybe. But I never was a big online gamer, never. It just does not make that clicking sound in my head.

Threadfin

05-16-22, 12:48 PM

Fair enough and to each his own.

I've been running a Vintage Formula 1 World Championship that I created in AMS2. Racing the AI lets me do the stuff I want, and fill the gaps. I concurrently also have a championship going in ACC, driving the 991 GT3 R.

But like I sad those are just gap fillers. Online racing's where it's at for me. The problem is I don't care to run with randos, and finding enough enthusiastic, like-minded people to race with is challenging at best these days.

To whet the appetite, here's the start of round 1 in my title chase. The grid screams off the line at Kyalami Historic 1976. Good stuff.

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/42006/filename/kyastart.jpg

mapuc

05-16-22, 01:15 PM

Isn't it up to what size of what graphic card and CPU you have that determine how realistic sim racing could be ?

I myself are trying to save money to buy a decent set of Steering wheel with pedals. I've read about the one Skybird has and they look interesting, but again it's all about money.

Then it's my gaming computer it has 6 GB Graphic memory 3.3 GHZ CPU. Can't remember the RAM how much it has.

Markus

Threadfin

05-16-22, 01:31 PM

Isn't it up to what size of what graphic card and CPU you have that determine how realistic sim racing could be ?

Graphical fidelity is great, and some of these new sims are simply fantastic looking. But for me what makes 'realism' is physics and feel. I could drive GPL today with 1998 graphics and love it. Of course that shot above is beyond what we can achieve with GPL and so it becomes the standard. It nails the feel of Grand Prix Legends while looking far better.

To illustrate how good these sims look, here's a shot I took a few days ago in Assetto Corsa Competizione, driving the BMW M6 GT3.

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/41978/filename/M6.jpg

mapuc

05-16-22, 01:42 PM

Thank you I forgot about the feeling sitting in a F1 car or in a rally car and feel the vibration from the engine.

Markus

Threadfin

05-16-22, 01:54 PM

The state of force feedback today is remarkable, it really is. There are two main components -- the sim -- and how it handles FFB -- and the wheel you have, which have varying levels of fidelity when it comes to transmitting the feel of the tarmac to your hands.

But a good modern sim with a quality wheel is amazing. I dare say it would blow away someone who has not experienced what it is like today. Sims like rFactor2, Assetto Corsa Competizione and Automobilista Motorsport Simulator 2 all have fantastic FFB.

Without the wheel you can't feel it of course, but AMS2 has a free demo on Steam if you have any interest in seeing what is all about.

Skybird

05-16-22, 05:20 PM

The trap is that the FFB has to be individually tuned for every wheelbase-sim combo. And when a sim introduces a new data set, or a hardware producers does a new firmware or driver, the hardware needs to be updated and then the data needs to be tuned in again with different values. If fell for that trap myself sometimes, too.

Same in VR, the gfx engine may have gotten an update of the underlying engine, say U4E, and in the VR helmet the image suddenly is way to dark and you have never heard of it, and then you start fuming in anger and despair since you do not get it fixed. Happened in ACC twice to me, I just did not know it that U4E had seen massive changes. The solution was to delete a certain complete folder. Until I learned that, I thought the sim were dead for me.

Also, nVidia driver options for VR sometimes need certain HIGHER values in setting to have a good VR experience and smooth frames and no stutterings - not lower settings, but higher ones! In ACC I had the problem when I switched to my newer helmet that the picture was laggy, stuttering, and I did not get it solved, also it was blurry. I had however reduced some settings in nVidia drivers of which I assumed they would kill frames if I keep them high, because the new helmet has 8 times as many pixels than the old one, and I did not replace the 1080 card. As soon as I moved up these settings - the stuttering vanished and since then ACC looks much better than it ever did befiore in the old helmet. And I thought I had lost aCC!

Finally, the temps in ACC initially almost killed my system, went into the high 90s with low car numbers. Danger zone! But Kunos worked wonders on post release optimizations. With a superiuor VR display and 8x more pixels I now can run 30 cars smooth and crispy without blurrings at temps that are typcial for gaming on this processor type, mid-70s or so.

So many things come together to get a good and working technical experience. Problem is that I cannot keep track of all these many things anymore as I could years back. I forget fixes again, faster, and more regular than in the past. Even forget that a fix exists. .. :hmmm: