The publisher, release date and progress

[UglyMowgli]

The three questions that are the most often asked to the developers are:


Who is the publisher?
When it will be released?
What are the progress in the development?

Unfortunately, the devs can't give us an answer because they are bound by a contract to the publisher with a Non Disclosure Agreement.

So when the publisher will let us know who he is, maybe we will get what we ask for but until that we will stay in the dark.



This is the way!

[maslas]

That is true so far.
I have a feeling that by the end of this year some light will be shed on this matter.


Thanks for spreading the word of truth on this forum by the way.


Cheers,
:Kaleun_Cheers:

[RKaji]

I wish we could get answers to everything we want, but patience is always rewarded as they say, so maybe something will become known)

[UglyMowgli]

December 14th, we will see some light according to Maslas.

[clodio04]

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up::salute::Kaleun_Salivating:

[UglyMowgli]

The publisher has been announced, it's Matrixgames


You could follow the stream on the 14th here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Xned4UItA


https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinetv





https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/783655104049315870/918917512782020628/MNW-logo.png

[zachanscom]

nice it has some new footage too. let it be known that this community will assist maslas bros in any way possible to see this project to fruition. just ask.

[UglyMowgli]

The best way you can assist is by buying the simulator on launch :03:

[Fearless]

So looking foward to it :Kaleun_Salute:

[asleepwater]

It's November 2022 and there's still no news

[magicstix]

It's November 2022 and there's still no news

Everything I've seen about this game looks like they're suffering from the common trap of overpromising features without focusing on core mechanics.

Networked stations to tablets and smart phones? Come on. Is that really important in a modern subsim game?

And SONAR wasn't the first station finished out, or at least put into a basic initial capability before the first demo? Really? 70% of any modern subgame is going to be SONAR.


Pretty much everything I've seen so far in this game is something that can be created in a weekend in Unreal Engine with store-bought assets, and that's from a demo from 2 years ago. And they haven't released anything else showing progress?

[Fearless]

Everything I've seen about this game looks like they're suffering from the common trap of overpromising features without focusing on core mechanics.

Networked stations to tablets and smart phones? Come on. Is that really important in a modern subsim game?

And SONAR wasn't the first station finished out, or at least put into a basic initial capability before the first demo? Really? 70% of any modern subgame is going to be SONAR.


Pretty much everything I've seen so far in this game is something that can be created in a weekend in Unreal Engine with store-bought assets, and that's from a demo from 2 years ago. And they haven't released anything else showing progress?
Yes, get the sim released for PC first and forget about the Networked stations to tablets and smart phones. That can be looked at a much later date.

[UglyMowgli]

First the deported screen on tablet/phone will not be released at first.



MNW SONAR model is based on a realistic environment :
- Bathymetry,
- Sea floor textures (rock, sand, mud, ...),
- Sea Temperature,
- Sea Salinity,
- Ice,

- Weather,
- ....
And also on the submarine own "interferences", like flow disturbance on the SONARs and TAs, ....


The model is not like any other submarine sim you ever see, so before coding and testing the model, the devs had to first create the world environment (it take time to select, gather, compile all the needed information) then they started the SONAR model and station design (reading first a huge amount of theoretical books/thesis/reports and papers, looking for information on the A-RCI stations - like the different SONAR screens, buttons positions and functions, .... ) and also doing the same job for all the core functions that have influence on the model (mainly the submarine propulsion & navigation, sensor fusion) and then make them "talk" to each other.

That take a certain amount of time.



It is tested and retested and tuned by real sonarmen on a multitude of different situations (deep, shallow, coastal water, sea state from 0 to 10, at different season, ....). Do you think it done in one day? (those testers have a job, sometimes they go at sea).

So yes you are going to spend a lot of time on the SONAR stations that's why the model and the stations are taking time to implement to be as real as possible without entering the "trouble red line" area.


For the information release, see with Matrixgames Public Relation, it's not the devs "buisness".

[magicstix]

First the deported screen on tablet/phone will not be released at first.



MNW SONAR model is based on a realistic environment :
- Bathymetry,
- Sea floor textures (rock, sand, mud, ...),
- Sea Temperature,
- Sea Salinity,
- Ice,

- Weather,
- ....
And also on the submarine own "interferences", like flow disturbance on the SONARs and TAs, ....


The model is not like any other submarine sim you ever see, so before coding and testing the model, the devs had to first create the world environment (it take time to select, gather, compile all the needed information) then they started the SONAR model and station design (reading first a huge amount of theoretical books/thesis/reports and papers, looking for information on the A-RCI stations - like the different SONAR screens, buttons positions and functions, .... ) and also doing the same job for all the core functions that have influence on the model (mainly the submarine propulsion & navigation, sensor fusion) and then make them "talk" to each other.

That take a certain amount of time.



It is tested and retested and tuned by real sonarmen on a multitude of different situations (deep, shallow, coastal water, sea state from 0 to 10, at different season, ....). Do you think it done in one day? (those testers have a job, sometimes they go at sea).

So yes you are going to spend a lot of time on the SONAR stations that's why the model and the stations are taking time to implement to be as real as possible without entering the "trouble red line" area.


For the information release, see with Matrixgames Public Relation, it's not the devs "buisness".


The "ultra realistic" SONAR environment just sounds like more overpromising. The real Navy's SONAR simulators use huge databases dozens of gigabytes in size and super computers to do the computations, and these guys are promising all of this in a laptop game? Call me skeptical.

And what "real SONARmen" are testing and tuning this? I find it hard to believe the US Navy would sign off on something like that, especially in active duty sailors.

[UglyMowgli]

Believe what you want. I not here to convince you, I just give facts.
Bye.

[magicstix]

Believe what you want. I not here to convince you, I just give facts.
Bye.

LOL "facts?"

As in "active duty US Navy sailors are giving sensitive information in between deployments to foreigners so they can make a game?" And your source on this? Some guys on the internet that want your money?

LOL. ok sure. "facts"

[UglyMowgli]

1- Did I wrote anything about USN sonarmen? NO. So don't put words I never wrote in my hands!


2 - What sensitive information? Absolutely none have been given to the devs team by the "Navy Advisors" (Navy is a broad term and didn't refer specifically to the US Navy). They all who know how to keep their mouths shut on sensitive topics.


3 - You don't know anything about the eventual relation between the devs, the publisher and the USN. So maybe (or not) there is active or former STS, FT, ETV/R helping the team with their hierarchy or the Navy knowing about.


4 - My source, maybe I am (or not) one those "Navy Advisors".

[magicstix]

1- Did I wrote anything about USN sonarmen? NO. So don't put words I never wrote in my hands!


2 - What sensitive information? Absolutely none have been given to the devs team by the "Navy Advisors" (Navy is a broad term and didn't refer specifically to the US Navy). They all who know how to keep their mouths shut on sensitive topics.


3 - You don't know anything about the eventual relation between the devs, the publisher and the USN. So maybe (or not) there is active or former STS, FT, ETV/R helping the team with their hierarchy or the Navy knowing about.


4 - My source, maybe I am (or not) one those "Navy Advisors".


1- It's a game about US Navy subs. The implication of which navy "navy advisor" or "SONARman" means is obvious. Q.E.D.

2- The ARCI displays are by definition sensitive. Q.E.D.

3- You don't know what I know about the US Navy's interactions with game developers. However, I do know the US navy does not have a relationship with a pair of Greek developers to build a high-fidelity simulation of their cutting edge fast attack submarines.

4- You're from Canada. You are not a "navy advisor" on US ARCI systems nor Virginia class boats. If you knew anything about them in an official capacity (which as a Canadian national you would by definition be barred from knowing *ANYTHING* about Virginia class boats), you wouldn't be telling them (per NATO treaty obligations).

The only Canadians who might conceivably know anything about Virginia class boats would be, or have been, stationed at Whidbey Island, and that narrows down the "who" a lot.

So long story short, you are either not one of those navy advisors, or they are getting useless information from you. Q.E.D.

[Ghost Dog]

So much drama!

[UglyMowgli]

Yep drama.



But I have to answer since he attack me directly, but it will be short (I hope).



It's is not a game about US Navy, first it's a simulator not a game, second the title is not Virginia Warfare or US Submarines Warfare, it is Modern Naval Warfare (yes other countries have navy, and MNW is also - I will say mainly - about them).


Funny, he think there is only US citizens who know stuff about submarines, oceanography, meteorology, marine biology, sonar systems, ship/submarine design, weaponry, cooking (see at the end of the post :haha:), underwater explosions, naval tactics, foreign navies, ......No! the advisors are from eclectic domains and from diverse origins. Hint, my SME is one in the list!




Did he know why the devs choose the Virginia and not the 688, SSN-21 or the British T boats (for example)? It is because there is more open source information available on the 774 class than any other modern nuclear submarine.

The Maslas brothers spent 2 years to get as many information as possible on the Virginia before starting the project. They didn't wake-up one day and say "hey let's do a submarine simulator" and then roll a dice to see what submarine they will do.



The developer team is not just the two Maslas brothers, there is few others including Murican's. He can watch the latest interview, there is a hint on who/where they are.


And he may didn't known who finance them? He can check the web. They are providing some branch of the US military (including the Navy) with what he call "games" to train them for more than 10 years. So yes there is good relation with the DoD (and the Navy).



I maybe useless to them (or not). Personally I don't care. If they ask me to give them the perfect Putine recipe (since apparently I am in Canada), I do it as long as it serve the project.



But at the end, if he or other have any indication about any sensitive information (in accordance with 18 U.S. Code § 798) given to any foreign entity or person they can contact their local FBI office and bring EVIDENCES otherwise, they better shut their mouth.


OVER and OUT for me.

[Onkel Neal]

As with any discussion on the web, things can get heated. I'm not here to play referee, but when someone is excessively rude and starts name-calling, I have to step in.

In this case, I want to point out that one of the participants in this thread, Magic, called into question the validity of the game's (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2837639#post2837639) claims as posted by Mowgli, and that is 100% allowed and reasonable. He did not start calling him names, though, or post rude, and invite people to pile on.

Mowgli, you have to bear in mind, people will not always agree with you and when you are promoting a game (as I do quite a bit) you have to allow them room to disagree and challenge the premise and claims.

I started this forum as a place where people can discuss subsims, and this is one of those rare occasions where I have to ask folks to make an effort to stay civil and exercise tact.

Thank you for your understand,
Neal

[Wolfcat]

I have seen the title on Steam but no actual game. It's been like this for almost a year. Is this game still alive? I really had high hope for this, wishing it to replace decades old subcommand/DW series.

[Onkel Neal]

They had a video chat update a couple months ago, seemed like business as usual. As long aa they don't start talking Kickstarter.

[maslas]

Hello everybody,

We've just returned very excited from I/ITSec (https://www.iitsec.org/) that took place in Orlando with a trophy at hand...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717596639371591741/1047357820124811295/20221129_204515.jpg

I'd like to point out as an extension to Onkeal Neal's previous speech that every opinion is accepted from our part and we are trained not only as a professional development studio but also as individual personalities to eavesdrop our surrounding.

Additionally, I'd like to remind you a few things and I am really sorry if this becomes tiresome.

a. MNW is created 100% by non classified information. We have and we've been spending a very significant of our development time on the research of this project. Non of our advisors is put in a difficult position.
b. MNW will be published both in a Commercial and a Professional version. The library and DB of the commercial product will never become as detailed as the PRO's but keep in mind the following.
Every organization that will acquire MNW Pro will get the tools to populate its own (classified)libraries and DB that we will never have access on them.
c. We promised a proper successor of Dangerous Waters. We've been constantly saying that we respect the past and we will give at least the quality that DW manged to do 17 years ago.
d. I read somewhere that, 70% of any modern subgame is going to be SONAR. That is totally true. Indeed 50% of our development time has to do with underwater sound.
e. Initially, we were very disappointed that there were not enough assets to buy that would have definitely ignite our development process, time-wise.
f. In every project of such magnitude there are delays. We are not a special case, I can assure of that.
g. We are a small team and we are working very hard on this project, we are really sorry if you don't hear much of our activities so constantly but that belongs to the cons of being small.

We are very proud of our work and this community.
Thank you for the support, dedication and tolerance. This award is dedicated to you.

Cheers,

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Wolfcat]

Very nice to hear from you, Maslas and congratz on the trophy. Your hardwork well deserved it. Just a word of advice. I did a bit developer work before. For any new game/sim, don't go too ambitious initially. Otherwise you will fall into a trap of overpromising as someone alluded to earlier. Don't try to have all the famous subs playable, but rather focusing on 1-2 playables. Also, take your time to iron out as many bugs as possible before launch. I have seen so many promising titles launched full of bugs and players got really frustrated and left. Sub sim lovers are such a small community. You wouldn't want to alienate any one of them. While we are waiting patiently for your sim, wish you the best of luck and look forward to taking a walk in SSN VA's control room soon.

[maslas]

Both your concerns and experience are correct. What you describe is very common.

The initial most common mistake in almost any development project, is the inability to create proper budgeting and follow it.
The second mistake is the underestimation of the features promised.
The third mistake is the inability to estimate the target market as a result the studio can't forecast the return of the investment.


Currently, we are focusing only on the Virginia Attack Sub. The rest we've been talking about should follow on DLCs and that depends on whether the project will succeed or not.
We want the product released to be as bug free as possible. Any serious bug will be against the quality of the title and in extend its long-term sales.
This community trusted us with something that we took very seriously.
Will we be able on release to have all the features promised? Not all of them, no. But we will do our best to provide any update possible to make it as complete as possible.
It depends on the support of the community(if you will buy it or not) on what the future will bring.
Thank you very much for sharing openly your sincere thoughts.


:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Onkel Neal]

I know first hand it can take a lot of hours of work on the underlying framework before there's anything to show people. I like the direction and goal for your title, having a Virginia class sim on par or better than the Sonalysts titles would be really good.

[Furia]

It depends on the support of the community(if you will buy it or not) on what the future will bring.

You can surely count with my purchase the very minute the sim is available for purchase or pre-purchase.

And I do seriously hope that you are very successful, not only because I really want to see this tittle covering surface platforms in the future but because this king of sumbarine simulator is something we have been dreaming off for years and it seems to me you know exactly what the community wants and you know how to deliver.

Your success is a win for all of us. :Kaleun_Salute:

[zachanscom]

very well deserved award. you are the only devs in this space even attempting such a sim. ignore the naysayers, what you've shown is already head and shoulders above every sub sim title to date. i will be putting forth my early suggestion for an alfa class expansion/dlc