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View Full Version : A so far not mentioned military risk of Nord Stream 2 ?


Skybird
07-05-21, 12:02 PM
The Neue Zürcher Zeitung writes:


Nord Stream 2 could become a trap - experts assume that Russia will use the Baltic Sea pipeline for military purposes. - Marine experts and NATO take the question of whether Russia will also use Nord Stream 2 for military purposes very seriously. Only the German government turns a blind eye. -

Despite various international criticism of Nord Stream 2, the German government is sticking to the pipeline project. Their standard argument is that Nord Stream 2 is a purely commercial project, i.e. beyond politics. If there were any political significance, it would be that it would serve as a bridge to Russia. The earlier claim that Nord Stream 2 is also important for Europe's energy security is being used less and less by the German government after the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for the project to be terminated immediately. -

The core argument that Nord Stream 2 is a purely commercial project is now challenged by an analysis of three apparently well-informed Ukrainian authors with a military background. In an article in the Ukrainian journal «Tschornomorska bespeka», the authors Michail Gonchar, Andrei Ryschenko and Bogdan Ustimenko from the Center for Global Studies (Strategy XXI) write that, based on experience with Russian pipeline projects in the Black Sea, it must be assumed that Russia's North Stream 2 used to install underwater listening devices for military purposes. With the help of these and other facilities, it should be possible to track all of NATO's military shipping traffic in the Baltic Sea and, in particular, to see submarines. This could thwart the still existing superiority of NATO in the maritime area, in particular the quiet German submarines would be affected. -

The authors point out that Russia in the Black Sea is actively using the underwater space for acoustic reconnaissance activities, including using civilian objects on the sea floor. For example, Russia has created a stationary hydroacoustic monitoring system in the northwestern part of the Black Sea and along the Turkish Stream gas pipeline. -

The authors assume that Russia will also use Nord Stream 2 for military purposes. Technically it is not difficult. The security system for gas pipelines Delta-MGA, which was specially developed for Gazprom, can be used for this purpose. All you have to do is add individual technical components and network them with other underwater sonar systems. Russia has the necessary experience and technical skills. The authors are thinking of the MGK-608 Sever passive sonar system, which Russia has been using for many years and has since developed further. -

These hydroacoustic sensors would be connected to the “Harmonie” maritime monitoring system, which was introduced in the middle of the last decade, with the aim of carrying out a comprehensive control of the nautical activities taking place there in more and more marine areas. This is accompanied by an expansion of Russian capabilities for unconventional underwater warfare. This aims, among other things, to be able to interrupt communication connections (Internet cables, broadband cables, telephone connections, power cables, pipelines), which are central, if not to say vital, for the globally networked economic life of the western world. -

The Russian side of course dismissed the publication as an attempt to sabotage Nord Stream 2. Marine experts in Germany and NATO, on the other hand, take the problem very seriously. Nord Stream 2 is understood there as a gigantic chain of sensors that can be used by the military and that can become critical in the event of a crisis. The federal government neglects this aspect, however, because this skepticism does not fit into the policy of the federal government. There you would be relieved if Nord Stream 2 finally went into operation - in the hope that then all the hustle and bustle would be over. -

In fact, it should first be checked whether the suspicions of the three Ukrainian experts are justified or not - by independent German and Western experts. A hearing in the German Bundestag would also make sense. Otherwise Nord Stream 2 could become a military trap.

mapuc
07-05-21, 01:56 PM
I don't know if Lars Wilderäng's books Midwinter darkness has been translated to English or German.

A short story line(from my memory)
The Russian government is accusing the Swedish government for supporting a terror group, who according to Russia has their base on Gotland. Russia is accusing Sweden for being behind the destruction of the Gasline in the Baltic.

Russia decide to hold a major exercise in the Baltic...but this armada has one goal only, occupy Gotland. To the world the Russian say it is to stop these terrorist.

Markus

Rockstar
07-05-21, 03:30 PM
I know in the past there has been speculation Russia will increase its naval presence off European shores to protect its investment. The link Catfish posted in the German politics thread about your country ordering five Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft for 1.1 billion euro, might have something to do with that.

Are we witnessing the birth of the German military industrial complex? All that’s needed is some headlines of a real or perceived threat to start one. ;)

mapuc
07-05-21, 03:37 PM
From what I understand Russia does not pick a fight with another country they need some excuse to do so.

Here I'm thinking in line with Red Storm, Where Soviet accuse West Germany.

Be prepared for some kind of military attack on this gasline and a Russian accusation against Germany/EU.

Markus

Skybird
07-05-21, 07:02 PM
The link Catfish posted in the German politics thread about your country ordering five Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft for 1.1 billion euro, might have something to do with that.

Are we witnessing the birth of the German military industrial complex?


:haha: No, you missed the real reason by a huge margin. Keep it simple! The reason is simply the most obvious, in this case. The German forces are in a pitiful state. The few old P-3 Orions the German operate already were obsolete when Germany bought them used from the Netherlands several years ago - and already back then it was a desparate act, wanting to save the money but needing to invest into the unloved armed forces.

See, when the last German military unit returned from Afghanistan a few days ago, there was no defence minister or her debuty present for a greeting or last flag appeal. No representative of the govenrment. No representative of the Bundestag. And this although they say the German army is a parliament's army. Aboslutely zero political recognition. None. This tells you something!

Two parties in the Bundestag in principle want to dismantle the armed forces and NATO alltogether. ;)

And btw, the Bundeswehr's procurement office and the attached planning offices, have a terrible reputation and are hopelessly over-"bureaucracisied" (overblown in buraucratic measures and hierarchical levels), probbaly all dfeenc emionsitries ar eiek that, mroe or less, but in case of the Germans the situation is especially bad. Too many cooks spoil the brew. Or in this case: too many generals and high ranking officers. It has been estimated that one could cut down these procedures by 80-90% and one would not lose but gain quality in result.

Not industrial-military complex. But getting bogged down. Berlin Airport, anyone? Stuttgart 21? Frankfurt 2040? Energiewende and Denuclearization? Germany cannot properly plan and soberly manage big projects anymore, can no longer form realistic ideas and mental images of reality, that simple it is. The admired and sometimes feared proverbial efficiency of the Germans in these regards - is no more.