Miami building collapse

[Reece]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57592827

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZdT6Rlopmw

Nasty, 1 dead so far, hopefully no one is buried under the rubble, what a mess!! :o:wah:

[Reece]

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/06/24/multimedia/24xp-miami2/merlin_189815550_2f554f58-4e41-43d4-b368-f9c9a754361b-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2021/06/24/tower-collapse/17337f8307ce15f42fb230276e15b3248daaf9bb/tower-collapse-720.jpg

3 dead so far and 12 injured, and at least 99 people remained unaccounted for. Not good! :oops:

[Aktungbby]

"the building had been scheduled to undergo extensive repair.....:hmmm: a day late and a dollar short?? JEEZE! In today's paperMeanwhile, owners of units in the collapsed condo building were just days from a deadline to start making steep payments toward more than $9 million in major repairs that had been recommended nearly three years earlier. That cost estimate, from the Morabito Consultants engineering firm in 2018, meant that payments from $80k-one bedroom units to $330k-penthouse, were to start...on July 1 ??! I stand horribly corrected: a week late and $9 million short...

[Jimbuna]

Saw cctv earlier on the news and the sight astonished me. The latest figures are 4 dead and 159 missing apparently.

[Mr Quatro]

Not as bad as it sounds with the number of people who have been accounted for has gone up to 120 - the 159 missing = 39 - the 4 dead = 35 or so actually unaccounted for, but still a terrible accident for sure.

[Jimbuna]

Not as bad as it sounds with the number of people who have been accounted for has gone up to 120 - the 159 missing = 39 - the 4 dead = 35 or so actually unaccounted for, but still a terrible accident for sure.

That is not how the BBC are reporting it mind.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57606232

[Onkel Neal]

This just seems impossible without some deliberate, malignant act...

[Mr Quatro]

I thought after 24 hours there would be an update, but not according to ABC news.

41 mins ago

The investigation continues into the Surfside, Florida, residential building collapse that left four people dead and 159 still missing.

[Jimbuna]

The number of those missing continues to be reported as 159

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57621774

[MaDef]

This just seems impossible without some deliberate, malignant act...

not only that, some ambulance chasing lawyer has filed a 5 million dollar class action lawsuit on behalf of the victims charging negligence.

[Buddahaid]

not only that, some ambulance chasing lawyer has filed a 5 million dollar class action lawsuit on behalf of the victims charging negligence.

I'm shocked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUvf9FzI-JQ

[3catcircus]

This just seems impossible without some deliberate, malignant act...

It is. Never assume malice when laziness or stupidity come into play.

The engineer who inspected the building several years ago stressed in his report that the waterproofing in the pool was failing, causing it to leak into the foundation and into the parking garage. Massive stress cracks existed in both as a result. Why was the waterproofing failing? Because the original construction was flat instead of sloping away to allow runoff...

Why was it not repaired? Because the work was still out for bid...

Either the original design was flawed or the construction didn't follow the design.

[Jimbuna]

The death toll has risen to five after the collapse of an apartment block in Florida, authorities say.

Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said the number unaccounted for has now dropped to 156, with three more of the recovered bodies identified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57626978

[Onkel Neal]

It is. Never assume malice when laziness or stupidity come into play.

The engineer who inspected the building several years ago stressed in his report that the waterproofing in the pool was failing, causing it to leak into the foundation and into the parking garage. Massive stress cracks existed in both as a result. Why was the waterproofing failing? Because the original construction was flat instead of sloping away to allow runoff...

Why was it not repaired? Because the work was still out for bid...

Either the original design was flawed or the construction didn't follow the design.


You're probably right. It is so unusual for a whole building to crater instantly... I've heard of a building shifting and becoming dangerous and people noting it and freaking out. But I don't recall a large building like this just dropping like a demo.

[Jimbuna]

Death toll is now at 9 and presumably will start to rise now whilst the people still missing figure is 150

[Aktungbby]

You're probably right. It is so unusual for a whole building to crater instantly... I've heard of a building shifting and becoming dangerous and people noting it and freaking out. But I don't recall a large building like this just dropping like a demo.Rate of building sinkage at 2 millimeters a year comes to .07 inches a year since the nineties...aprox. 2 inches max on reclaimed wetlands with or without pool leakage. My bet is: the complete pancaking succession of 12 floors ala the World Trade Center (100+) floors when jet fuel fires weakened the 1 acre slab floors (98th floor aircraft impact point) was caused by a critical steel support failure of a floor; initiating the sudden collapse with a preliminary amount of shaking as reported by Cassondra Billedeau on the phone to her husband, Michael Stratton as the building collapsed: "She described that the building was shaking and then the phone went dead..." I would consider saltwater corrosion at the ocean-front location to be a factor.https://images.wsj.net/im-360598?width=1260&size=1.5 nothing in that 12-layer pancake is getting out alive...no imho about it.

[3catcircus]

Rate of building sinkage at 2 millimeters a year comes to .07 inches a year since the nineties...aprox. 2 inches max on reclaimed wetlands with or without pool leakage. My bet is: the complete pancaking succession of 12 floors ala the World Trade Center (100+) floors when jet fuel fires weakened the 1 acre slab floors (98th floor aircraft impact point) was caused by a critical steel support failure of a floor; initiating the sudden collapse with a preliminary amount of shaking as reported by Cassondra Billedeau on the phone to her husband, Michael Stratton as the building collapsed: "She described that the building was shaking and then the phone went dead..." I would consider saltwater corrosion at the ocean-front location to be a factor.https://images.wsj.net/im-360598?width=1260&size=1.5 nothing in that 12-layer pancake is getting out alive...no imho about it.

This. Depending upon the specific steel used, from saltwater intrusion or chlorinated pool water leakage, or even freshwater, the corrosion wouldn't need to be across all of the metal to cause structural failure. The water table in Florida is extremely shallow, so if they cut other corners, the pilings driven into bedrock clue have been corroding from both ends. Weaken the pilings, uneven stresses across a weakened slab, the whole thing can come down.

Of course, there is also the John McAfee stored tons of receipts on government criminality in the building theory, but YMMV...

[vienna]

Seriously, I recall several similar, if not as catastrophic building failures over the past several decades, a few here in the US; buildings on the East Coast have been known to spontaneously collapse, although usually due to some underlying event like an internal explosion, etc,; one possible cause I haven't heard mentioned is a sinkhole of some kind; Florida is well-known for its sink holes (no, it not a dig at Gov. DeSantis) and, in recent years, it seems as if they have been more frequent and more severe in size and effects; if there was a failure under the center(s) of the mass of the collapsed section(s) caused by a sudden collapse by a sink hole, the pancaking effect would be more explainable; from the photos and videos I have seen of the disaster site thus far, the floors (stories) rather 'neatly' piled upon each other, which gives almost n hope of finding anymore living residents; if the collapse had been more lateral (horizontal), there might have been areas created to possibly provide survival protections, but the motion was almost perfectly vertical, meaning those on each successively lower floor were crushed directly by the floors above them...




<O>

[Aktungbby]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/jun/25/video-shows-collapse-of-miami-area-condo-building

[Onkel Neal]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/us/surfside-condo-collapse-garage-video/index.html

Video shows fallen debris and gushing water in the Surfside condo garage moments before collapse

A couple staying at a nearby hotel recorded video that shows debris and gushing water in the underground parking garage of the Surfside condominium building minutes before it collapsed.

Adriana Sarmiento and Roberto Castillero were at a nearby hotel when they recorded video in the early hours of June 24. One recording, taken after the couple heard a loud crash, shows a view through the gate for the parking garage. Water can be seen coming down and concrete rubble appears to have fallen.

The couple watched as residents of the Champlain Towers South building rushed to their balconies, confused about the sound. Sarmiento said she and Castillero scrambled into the street, trying to wave for residents to evacuate, but they couldn't understand her.


The traumatized couple remembers only flashes of what happened next.
"Dust, and then, glass, rock, and then I started running for my life," Castillero said.


Now, my question is, how many other buildings in the area by the same construction firms, exist, and what are their condition? Can you imagine living in a neighboring section of this residential complex?

[Aktungbby]

Now, my question is, how many other buildings in the area by the same construction firms, exist, and what are their condition? Can you imagine living in a neighboring section of this residential complex? There is another just to the north; Built at the same time later with the same construction and and materials... https://www.reuters.com/world/us/after-florida-building-collapse-authorities-evacuate-similar-tower-2021-06-26/ That condominium was built in the same year by the same developer as Champlain Tower North, a similar tower that stands nearby. Burkett said he had no information to indicate the north tower had similar structural flaws. But he said the Federal Emergency Management Agency would relocate residents for several weeks to allow a thorough review of the property.
The evacuation is not mandatory, he said, but many residents are eager to leave. Worse yet: :k_confused: https://www.wtoc.com/2021/06/30/ex-official-who-said-surfside-condo-was-sound-leaves-new-job/ A former municipal official in Florida who assured condo board members that their building was in “very good shape” three years before it collapsed has left his new job, a city spokesman said Wednesday.
Rosendo “Ross” Prieto is on a leave of absence from his temporary job with a contracting business that provides building services for the city of Doral, a city spokeswoman said in an email statement Wednesday. Doral is located about 20 miles (32 kilometers) west of Surfside, where the Champlain Towers South is located.
When he was a building official in Surfside in 2018, Prieto told members of the Champlain Towers South board that their condo building was sound. His assessment came a month after an engineering firm identified key structural deficiencies requiring major costly repairs. :Kaleun_Crying:

[Onkel Neal]

The rest of the complex was demoed last night.

https://youtu.be/RslkMukgMoo

Israeli Col. Golan Vach no longer believes there are Surfside building collapse survivors under rubble (https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/07/04/israeli-col-golan-vach-no-longer-believes-there-are-surfside-building-collapse-survivors-under-rubble/)

Question: did they find any living after the first 8 hours? I cannot image how a person could survive.

[Aktungbby]

One little boy under a mattress and bed frame was pulled immediately after the collapse by a passing dog walker who heard his cries for help; 37 others trapped in the remaining upright portion were rescued by responders arriving to the wreck. I don't believe anyone other than the boy was extricated from the 12-layer pancake proper. Death from blunt force trauma would be instantaneous from concrete floors/ceilings compressing in seconds...as my photo above (#16)reflects.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I think you're right, I that makes sense to me. Man, what a gruesome rescue job.

[Jimbuna]

Yeah, I think you're right, I that makes sense to me. Man, what a gruesome rescue job.

Yep, a lot more than I've seen in my time.

[3catcircus]

One little boy under a mattress and bed frame was pulled immediately after the collapse by a passing dog walker who heard his cries for help; 37 others trapped in the remaining upright portion were rescued by responders arriving to the wreck. I don't believe anyone other than the boy was extricated from the 12-layer pancake proper. Death from blunt force trauma would be instantaneous from concrete floors/ceilings compressing in seconds...as my photo above (#16)reflects.

One would hope... We have no idea how many of those poor bastards were inside of not-big-enough voids, squished just flat enough to slowly suffocate with broken ribs or smooshed limbs, or stuck to drown in any firefighting water sprayed on the debris. The real horror is whether or not the rescuers who determined everyone else was dead before bringing down the rest of the building were incorrect in that assessment. There have been instances of people trapped in rubble rescued weeks later, surviving on rainwater.

[Onkel Neal]

Seriously, I recall several similar, if not as catastrophic building failures over the past several decades, a few here in the US; buildings on the East Coast have been known to spontaneously collapse, although usually due to some underlying event like an internal explosion, etc,; one possible cause I haven't heard mentioned is a sinkhole of some kind; Florida is well-known for its sink holes (no, it not a dig at Gov. DeSantis) and, in recent years, it seems as if they have been more frequent and more severe in size and effects; if there was a failure under the center(s) of the mass of the collapsed section(s) caused by a sudden collapse by a sink hole, the pancaking effect would be more explainable; from the photos and videos I have seen of the disaster site thus far, the floors (stories) rather 'neatly' piled upon each other, which gives almost n hope of finding anymore living residents; if the collapse had been more lateral (horizontal), there might have been areas created to possibly provide survival protections, but the motion was almost perfectly vertical, meaning those on each successively lower floor were crushed directly by the floors above them...




<O>

Man, I guess I was not paying attention, other than the Hyatt balcony, I don't recall any.

[em2nought]

Suddenly the idea of living in a high-rise feels a bit like swimming in the ocean ever since watching "Jaws".

[Red Devil]

Desperately sad. I do hope the builders are taken to cost for building such STRUCTURE ON sand

[d@rk51d3]

Desperately sad. I do hope the builders are taken to cost for building such STRUCTURE ON sand

Talking to an engineer friend a few years ago, and he told me that sand was a preferred base for a foundation, as it was much more stable than other soil types.

The problem here appears to be failed waterproofing membranes in the pool area that has subsequently rotted out the main structure over the years.

[Red Devil]

Talking to an engineer friend a few years ago, and he told me that sand was a preferred base for a foundation, as it was much more stable than other soil types.

The problem here appears to be failed waterproofing membranes in the pool area that has subsequently rotted out the main structure over the years.

thanks

[fireftr18]

A fire department buddy of mine is on Ohio Task Force 1. A group set up to respond to all kinds of large scale emergencies. They just returned from there for victim recovery. I haven't had to respond to anything so horrific.