Iran’s largest warship catches fire and sinks

[Kapitan]

Built in the UK in 1977 the Kharg caught fire under suspicious circumstances and sank

I briefly recall Jimbuna had some connections to her when she was under RFA ownership (if memory serves)

https://apnews.com/article/persian-gulf-tensions-middle-east-iran-business-evacuations-f3e8126a8603326e1abc4705c6629fcd

[Skybird]

Was it a real ship or just another model? Just asking...

[Kapitan]

She is a real ship ex British RFA OL class oiler

[Skybird]

Irony. :03:

[vienna]

Starting a betting pool: how long before Iran accuses Israel or the US of the loss...?...




<O>

[Rockstar]

Their other oiler is supposedly on the way to Venezuela. Wonder if it continues or is recalled.

[mapuc]

It could have something to do with the civil war in Yemen The perpetrator in this case would most likely be Saudi-Arabia.

Markus

[Skybird]

I think of Iran's role for arming up Hamas in the Gaza strip, and Israel's recent argument with Hamas.

[Rockstar]

It could have something to do with the civil war in Yemen The perpetrator in this case would most likely be Saudi-Arabia.

Markus


Could also have something to do with internal divisions & strife inside Iran too. Not every in that country is happy living in a militant islamic theocracy.

[Texas Red]

Let’s just hope everything doesn’t go to hell again in the middle east

[Aktungbby]

Like much of Iran’s major military hardware, the Kharg dated back to before Iran’s 1979 Islamic Revolution. The warship, built in Britain and launched in 1977, entered the Iranian navy in 1984 after lengthy negotiations. That aging military equipment has seen fatal accidents as recently as Tuesday, when a malfunction in the ejector seats of an Iranian F-5 dating back to before the revolution killed two pilots while the aircraft was parked in a hangar.

In recent months, the navy launched a slightly larger commercial tanker called the Makran that it converted into serving a similar function as the Kharg.

The sinking of the Kharg marks the latest naval disaster for Iran. In 2020, during an Iranian military training exercise, a missile mistakenly struck a naval vessel near Jask, killing 19 sailors and wounding 15. Also in 2018, an Iranian navy destroyer sank in the Caspian Sea. Considering they shot down their own airliner with a missile a while back,...I'd hate to see what mistakes they'd make with their nuclear development ambitions :hmmm:

[mapuc]

There are many candidate who could be behind the destruction of this Iranian vessel.

It could also be as simpel as bad or lack of maintenance behind the disaster.

vienna is correct Iran will point fingers whether someone else was behind it or if it was their own fault.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Built in the UK in 1977 the Kharg caught fire under suspicious circumstances and sank

I briefly recall Jimbuna had some connections to her when she was under RFA ownership (if memory serves)

https://apnews.com/article/persian-gulf-tensions-middle-east-iran-business-evacuations-f3e8126a8603326e1abc4705c6629fcd

Yeah, I worked on her when she was being built at the Swan Hunter yard just up the river from my place of abode.

She had quite an eventful early history.

Iran ordered the ship from the English shipyard Swan Hunter in October 1974 in a contract worth £40 million (equivalent to $54 million). Kharg was laid down on 27 January 1976, launched on 3 February 1977 by Gholamreza Pahlavi and named by Manijeh Pahlavi, a member of the royal family. R. J. Daniel, a Royal Corps of Naval Constructors officer, wrote in his memoirs that the ceremonial ship launching was attended by the wife of the Shah's brother, and a cleric wearing a black turban blessed the battle honours but got the name of the ship wrong in his first attempt. She ran some trials in November 1978, but delays in fitting-out postponed her commissioning by the Imperial Iranian Navy and shortly afterwards the Iranian Revolution took place. In August 1979, it was reported that the Interim Government of Iran intended to cancel the contract, and as a result Swan Hunter was looking for a new purchaser.


Kharg moored at Walker Naval Yard in 1982
She was painted in battleship grey and between September 1979 and February 1980, she undertook sea trials in secrecy. Though she was delivered to the Iranian government on 25 April 1980, the UK government refused an export license for the ship that had been wholly paid by Iran. This resulted in Kharg's some 200 crew members being trapped in the United Kingdom. Swan Hunter declared that it was uninvolved in any political implications and considered building Kharg a "straightforward commercial contract". The Guardian warned Iranians that Kharg may become subject to a "theft" similar to Reşad V, the battleship ordered by the Ottoman Navy from Vickers and seized by the British in 1914 to join the Royal Navy fleet.

Many negotiations were undertaken to release the vessel, and the British told the Iranians that as long as the American hostages were not released, Kharg would remain in the United Kingdom. However, after the hostages returned to the United States, the export license remained unissued and in August 1981 the Foreign Office declared that the ship would not be handed to Iran for a foreseeable future, citing the detention of a British national in Iran, Andrew Pyke, as the reason. Pyke was released in February 1982 and in July Iran sent three high-ranking officers to inspect the Kharg. On 10 July 1984, Kharg arrived at Tyne Shiprepairers for overhaul and she started sea trials on 4 September. Kharg left the dock for Iran on 5 October 1984, after the UK government approved her export without any armaments on the grounds that she was "not suitable for use in the war against Iraq".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS_Kharg

[Aktungbby]

There are many candidate who could be behind the destruction of this Iranian vessel.https://i.pinimg.com/564x/26/ad/52/26ad52bd4c66a81fb5b81d1e373919eb.jpg I 'spect its the incredible Mr Limpet:arrgh!:

[Mr Quatro]

https://untappd.akamaized.net/site/beer_logos_hd/beer-3116858_e4aed_hd.jpeg

[mapuc]

Now a fire has erupted at an Iranian refinery at southern Teheran

Seems like they have been hit by bad luck for the moment.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Karma can be so bitchy sometimes.

[Skybird]

"Bad luck"...? :D

[Catfish]

^ Maybe that's what was written on the missile

[Texas Red]

Sounds more serious than bad luck my friend

Really I hope this doesn’t end horribly

[mapuc]

^ Maybe that's what was written on the missile

Missile !?

Have I missed something I have not heard or read that Iran had been attacked.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Karma can be so bitchy sometimes."Tis Kismet Hardy!":arrgh!: https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/styles/rctr-scale-1300-500/public/collection-online/9/7/256303-1330622546.jpg?itok=AXzR3XGk

[eddie]

What about the 2 Iranian pilots who died inside of a hanger when their ejection seats went off. Wonder how fast they were going when their bodies slammed into the ceiling?


Here is a link to one article about it-https://theworldnews.net/pk-news/two-pilots-killed-in-us-made-f-5-iran-fighter-jet-incident

[Aktungbby]

What about the 2 Iranian pilots who died inside of a hanger when their ejection seats went off. Wonder how fast they were going when their bodies slammed into the ceiling?


Here is a link to one article about it-https://theworldnews.net/pk-news/two-pilots-killed-in-us-made-f-5-iran-fighter-jet-incidentMy poor math skills not withstanding, an ejection seat blasts U at 65 ft per second ie: 3900 feet per minute. (1188.48 meters per minute!) Spine compression (18g's) especially with a heavy integrated modular helmet is rough on the neck...much less a hanger roof 200 ft overhead! I note the rear seat in a tandem cockpit goes a tad first to avoid the rocket burn from the pilot's seat rocket! Broken legs are typical...a fair tradeoff considering the alternative:k_confused:

[Commander Wallace]

My poor math skills not withstanding, an ejection seat blasts U at 65 ft per second ie: 3900 feet per minute. (1188.48 meters per minute!) Spine compression (18g's) especially with a heavy integrated modular helmet is rough on the neck...much less a hanger roof 200 ft overhead! I note the rear seat in a tandem cockpit goes a tad first to avoid the rocket burn from the pilot's seat rocket! Broken legs are typical...a fair tradeoff considering the alternative: k_confused:




I bet the last thing going through the pilots mind who were ejected was their rear ends. :yep:

[Texas Red]

My theory is that the Mossad is just having fun with Iran.

It could be plausible since Iran supplied Hamas with the weapons they used to attack Israel during the recent conflict between Palestine and Israel.

Could this be revenge by the Mossad? I think so.

[Jimbuna]

If it was Israel then it would almost certainly be orchestrated by Mossad.

[mapuc]

Lets play a little with the theory that it was Israel/Mossad who was behind all or some of the accident who happened in Iran a few days ago.


Does Iran have the nerve to retaliate ? I'm not talking about retaliate by proxy.

Does Iran hope other Muslim countries will join them in their crusade against Israel ?

Markus

[Aktungbby]

after the missile attack on Saudi Arabia's refinery, I wouldn't rule out a little Sunni vengeance either by Prince mohammed bin S.:hmmm: Possibly with proxy involvement by the US or Israel. That said, Iran is presently enroute to Venezuela with vessel # 2, Makran, and a frigate possibly to execute a 7 missile weapon sale in violation of American Monroe Doctrine policy...and thus the plot thickens....:hmmm:

[Skybird]

Does Iran hope other Muslim countries will join them in their crusade against Israel ?

They are Persians, not Arabs, and they are Shia, not Sunni.

Shia Persians.
Sunni Arabs.
Turks.

At least between these three groups you have to discriminate. Each of them has tried its best, historically, to brutally subjugate and dominate, if not exterminate, the others.

Go figure.

[vienna]

Israel, Saudis, etc., the "usual suspects", but what about a wild card?; could it be possible the factions in the ME (and other world locations) that have been itching to get a widespread conflict going among the ME nations are using the latest Palestinian/Israeli dust up to foment their own agenda and have been engaging in their own acts of sabotage? There are a lot of fringe, militant groups and militias throughout the ME who have been salivating over a 'final' showdown with Israel and the US...



<O>

[FireDragon76]

It could have something to do with the civil war in Yemen The perpetrator in this case would most likely be Saudi-Arabia.

Markus


Or it could just be an accident, which isn't that rare in alot of navies that have high rates of conscription.


Israel, Saudis, etc., the "usual suspects", but what about a wild card?; could it be possible the factions in the ME (and other world locations) that have been itching to get a widespread conflict going among the ME nations are using the latest Palestinian/Israeli dust up to foment their own agenda and have been engaging in their own acts of sabotage? There are a lot of fringe, militant groups and militias throughout the ME who have been salivating over a 'final' showdown with Israel and the US...



<O>


I forgot who said this quote, "Never attribute to malice what can't better be explained by stupidity", but that is probably more or less the case. Stuff happens, especially on ships with poorly trained crew.


edit. It's called Hanlon's Razor, apparrently:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

[vienna]

...or, as we used to say in IT, before you run a system diagnostic, check to see if the device is actually plugged in/online...




<O>

[Jimbuna]

Or it could just be an accident, which isn't that rare in alot of navies that have high rates of conscription.



That is certainly my take on the matter :yep:

[Skybird]

The leaving head of the Israeli mossad recently had an interview where he surprisingly frnakly admitted responsibility of Israel for several "incidents" in and coups against Iran.

After that you see Israel taking out that ship as a perfectly valid and realistic scenario.

In the end it does not matter what where sinks - as long as it is Iranian and sinks I am fine with it. :arrgh!: They do not have many supply assets like this. A loss of their biggest such asset seriously is a handicap for their navy's operational ambition.

[Skybird]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/11/middleeast/iran-navy-atlantic-intl/index.html


Makes oyu wondering: will these two last? :D

[mapuc]

Or it could just be an accident, which isn't that rare in alot of navies that have high rates of conscription.


Can't remember from where I heard the news first-If it was here at subsim, reading the article in this thread.

My first thought was Oman-not so far from Yemen, it was therefore I thought it was the Saudies who was behind it.

Now I know it was an accident-So the Iranian say.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

The leaving head of the Israeli mossad recently had an interview where he surprisingly frnakly admitted responsibility of Israel for several "incidents" in and coups against Iran.

After that you see Israel taking out that ship as a perfectly valid and realistic scenario.

In the end it does not matter what where sinks - as long as it is Iranian and sinks I am fine with it. :arrgh!: They do not have many supply assets like this. A loss of their biggest such asset seriously is a handicap for their navy's operational ambition.

The outgoing head of the Israeli spy agency Mossad has given a revelatory interview about the country's operations against Iran.

Yossi Cohen gave details about the theft of Iran's nuclear archive.

The warehouse raid in 2018 ferried tens of thousands of documents out of the country to Israel.

He also hinted at Israeli involvement in the destruction of Iran's nuclear facility at Natanz, and the assassination of a nuclear scientist.

Mr Cohen retired as the head of Mossad last week.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57440430

[mapuc]

^ Don't know how usual it is for a countries agency to brag about their operations in other countries-Like the story above.

On the other hand....what can Iran do ?? By them self...not much they can send some of their missiles against Israel.

Hope some of their Muslim brothers will stand by-Not likely

Fight Israel by proxy-very likely.

In all three cases-Iran will get a good old fashionable ass-whooping.

Markus

[FireDragon76]

Could also have something to do with internal divisions & strife inside Iran too. Not every in that country is happy living in a militant islamic theocracy.


I don't think internal division in Iran is any greater than the US, at least I see no evidence to support that. If anything, the divisions seem to be less so. You've got moderates and conservatives just like you do in any polity, but the moderates and conservatives don't share completely different worldviews. You can't really say the same in the US, which is much more pluralistic and recently has been struggling with that same pluralism.


A lecture by Rick Steves on his trip to Iran, and his impressions of the country:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU


The documentary is worth seeing, but the lecture is better.


Other things I have read suggest the real operating philosophy behind Iran is not Shia Islamic fundamentalism, which has a relatively pessimistic outlook and some ME commentators have called "stillborn" in inception, but simply Persian nationalism/populism.

[d@rk51d3]

Was reading this morning, that they’ve managed to misplace 3 Kilo class subs previously too.