What bugs me about Aces of the Deep...

[Andreas86]

Some things stand out for me, and has done so since the 90s:

1. Why did they program in wave bobbing at periscope depth? It is hugely annoying, illogical, and detracts from the sim. In fact this has always made me seasick. I always have to turn calm ocean on, and live with no waves on the surface. Periscope view should stay steady underwater. Can this be fixed somehow in 2021?

2. Waves sometimes goes hyper speed when surfaced, especially after changing views, pausing or giving a command to the crew. It was worst in Command AOD, but also present in MS-DOS AOD. The waves are ok if using a slow machine or setting DOSbox to emulate a 486 type slower computer. I have to say the wave cycling is crudely programmed, and seem to be a just random oscillation of the surface ending some distance from the boat, and the boats wave bobbing is exaggerated. I much prefer Silent Hunters wave action and ocean in general.

3. Traveling on patrol. The constant speeding up and slowing down of time compression. Going at 2048x sim speed just to be interrupted all the time by planes, no planning of diving or time on surface, no crew member to help other than call out the plane that is about to drop a bomb. Getting damaged because I am too slow to set normal time. They should IMO have chosen a Red Storm Rising / Silent Service II approach to this. In those games you manouver around the map, watching your fuel, get warned when finding a contact and get to choose to engage or not. Would have been better than standing on the bridge at 2000 times normal speed just to get to the patrol quadrant, and get surprised by escorts and planes.

I know I am complaining about 25 year old game, but I have wanted to get this off my chest for a long time.. Other than this the game has an atmosphere I have missed in every game since. :O:

[John Pancoast]

Some things stand out for me, and has done so since the 90s:

1. Why did they program in wave bobbing at periscope depth? It is hugely annoying, illogical, and detracts from the sim. In fact this has always made me seasick. I always have to turn calm ocean on, and live with no waves on the surface. Periscope view should stay steady underwater. Can this be fixed somehow in 2021?

2. Waves sometimes goes hyper speed when surfaced, especially after changing views, pausing or giving a command to the crew. It was worst in Command AOD, but also present in MS-DOS AOD. The waves are ok if using a slow machine or setting DOSbox to emulate a 486 type slower computer. I have to say the wave cycling is crudely programmed, and seem to be a just random oscillation of the surface ending some distance from the boat, and the boats wave bobbing is exaggerated. I much prefer Silent Hunters wave action and ocean in general.

3. Traveling on patrol. The constant speeding up and slowing down of time compression. Going at 2048x sim speed just to be interrupted all the time by planes, no planning of diving or time on surface, no crew member to help other than call out the plane that is about to drop a bomb. Getting damaged because I am too slow to set normal time. They should IMO have chosen a Red Storm Rising / Silent Service II approach to this. In those games you manouver around the map, watching your fuel, get warned when finding a contact and get to choose to engage or not. Would have been better than standing on the bridge at 2000 times normal speed just to get to the patrol quadrant, and get surprised by escorts and planes.

I know I am complaining about 25 year old game, but I have wanted to get this off my chest for a long time.. Other than this the game has an atmosphere I have missed in every game since. :O:

1. No, can't be fixed though I don't consider it broke.
2. Iirc, that "speed up" was meant to simulate time taken to move between stations.
3. Being surprised by planes, etc. is how it was in real life.

Agree about the atmosphere. It surpasses SH3 in every respect except graphics imo.

[Andreas86]

1. No, can't be fixed though I don't consider it broke.
2. Iirc, that "speed up" was meant to simulate time taken to move between stations.
3. Being surprised by planes, etc. is how it was in real life.

Agree about the atmosphere. It surpasses SH3 in every respect except graphics imo.

As for 2, if that is the case I strongly feel it is a bad game mechanic. Like getting hit in the head with a wrench every time you arrive at the bridge. Maybe the AOD Kaleun hit his head on the hatch on the way up.

I know it was like that historically, with the planes and all. The problem is they were not travelling at the speed of sound when they came upon planes and warships. Many times in campaign mode I left the boat in time compression for a snack or break (the captain has got to sleep sometime right?), and after a few minutes when I got back the boat was sunk, either by plane or warship. I wish there were more crew assistance at least when travelling like this, they could manage dive time, emergency diving and evasion, auto manning of AA guns, etc. In fact, the whole interface goes kinda sluggish when in time compression, making it hard to respond to sudden crisis. At least in my experience on various computers.

Very true about SH3, I could never get into it like AOD even though I tried many times. The 90s were a great time for sim fans.

[John Pancoast]

As for 2, if that is the case I strongly feel it is a bad game mechanic. Like getting hit in the head with a wrench every time you arrive at the bridge. Maybe the AOD Kaleun hit his head on the hatch on the way up.

I know it was like that historically, with the planes and all. The problem is they were not travelling at the speed of sound when they came upon planes and warships. Many times in campaign mode I left the boat in time compression for a snack or break (the captain has got to sleep sometime right?), and after a few minutes when I got back the boat was sunk, either by plane or warship. I wish there were more crew assistance at least when travelling like this, they could manage dive time, emergency diving and evasion, auto manning of AA guns, etc. In fact, the whole interface goes kinda sluggish when in time compression, making it hard to respond to sudden crisis. At least in my experience on various computers.

Very true about SH3, I could never get into it like AOD even though I tried many times. The 90s were a great time for sim fans.

The time compression should be dropping to 8x or 1x (depending on what is happening) when there is a sudden crisis.
Mine does anyway. However, check the weather too; if it's foggy the planes can get right on top of you via their radar. If you read actual logs/accounts, being surprised by planes/unable to dive in time was the norm even with radar detection devices.

[Andreas86]

If you read actual logs/accounts, being surprised by planes/unable to dive in time was the norm even with radar detection devices.


True, I just wished it happened in a context of better control, and not the time compression clickfest AOD is. Of course most newer sims suffer from this as well. In my opinion submarine life makes a poor real time game when in transit mode, and having to speed it up so drastically feels just wasted. That is why I mention those older games, which I feel got the balance between real time action and strategic transit right.

[John Pancoast]

True, I just wished it happened in a context of better control, and not the time compression clickfest AOD is. Of course most newer sims suffer from this as well. In my opinion submarine life makes a poor real time game when in transit mode, and having to speed it up so drastically feels just wasted. That is why I mention those older games, which I feel got the balance between real time action and strategic transit right.

Good point. :up:

[ChristopherTarana]

I've never had any issues with AOD! I use 1024 X Time while patrolling and the only time it changes is during a contact! :arrgh!: The wave effects in AOD are Excellent! :up: Attacks by Air Craft are handled Historically too! :ping: There is everything from Wildcats to B-17's attacking your sub. I have AOD and CAOD installed.




Christopher Tarana

[John Pancoast]

I've never had any issues with AOD! I use 1024 X Time while patrolling and the only time it changes is during a contact! :arrgh!: The wave effects in AOD are Excellent! :up: Attacks by Air Craft are handled Historically too! :ping: There is everything from Wildcats to B-17's attacking your sub. I have AOD and CAOD installed.




Christopher Tarana

Agree on all counts. :up:

[Andreas86]

I've never had any issues with AOD! I use 1024 X Time while patrolling and the only time it changes is during a contact! :arrgh!: The wave effects in AOD are Excellent! :up: Attacks by Air Craft are handled Historically too! :ping: There is everything from Wildcats to B-17's attacking your sub. I have AOD and CAOD installed.

Yes, they did good with the aircraft attacks and their research. But the problem I am trying to get at is that the game more or less forces you to play in time compression in the campaign, unless you are glued for a month to the screen. If you don't encounter anything on a patrol it will be just one big time compression. Some like it this way, ok. For me, it is the constant management of surfacing to charge batteries, diving, giving orders to man AA guns every single time (god forbid the Wachoffiziere should do this). And then get sunk by something because I did not press the normal time button quickly. Which brings me to another point. For all of AODs strong points and great atmosphere, I feel utterly alone on the boat. The popup window guys could just as well be on Skype. I wish Dynamix had drawn in a couple of sailors and officers in the command room, perhaps with a few animation frames. Fast Attack is one of the few sims to do this, even though it is crude.

Come on, the wave effects on the uboat in AOD are more in line with a rubber duck in a bathtub. The boat is glued to a surface that is oscillating way too fast.


https://j.gifs.com/LZ9YlX.gif

Command: AOD was actually the first version I had back in 1998. Had to buy it as soon as I saw the box. Ran it on Windows 95 with voice recognition even. Even the 12 year old me found it to be a buggy mess, lots of crashes, sound issues, etc.

They came very close to make the perfect sub sim though. I don't mean to sound too harsh. Would be great if someone could finally crack open this game and find ways to mod it. It has happened with old Microprose titles that are normally hard to reverse engineer, maybe in the future? :ping:

[John Pancoast]

Yes, they did good with the aircraft attacks and their research. But the problem I am trying to get at is that the game more or less forces you to play in time compression in the campaign, unless you are glued for a month to the screen. If you don't encounter anything on a patrol it will be just one big time compression. Some like it this way, ok. For me, it is the constant management of surfacing to charge batteries, diving, giving orders to man AA guns every single time (god forbid the Wachoffiziere should do this). And then get sunk by something because I did not press the normal time button quickly. Which brings me to another point. For all of AODs strong points and great atmosphere, I feel utterly alone on the boat. The popup window guys could just as well be on Skype. I wish Dynamix had drawn in a couple of sailors and officers in the command room, perhaps with a few animation frames. Fast Attack is one of the few sims to do this, even though it is crude.

Come on, the wave effects on the uboat in AOD are more in line with a rubber duck in a bathtub. The boat is glued to a surface that is oscillating way too fast.




Command: AOD was actually the first version I had back in 1998. Had to buy it as soon as I saw the box. Ran it on Windows 95 with voice recognition even. Even the 12 year old me found it to be a buggy mess, lots of crashes, sound issues, etc.

They came very close to make the perfect sub sim though. I don't mean to sound too harsh. Would be great if someone could finally crack open this game and find ways to mod it. It has happened with old Microprose titles that are normally hard to reverse engineer, maybe in the future? :ping:

As I mentioned earlier, I drop time compression automatically when there is a threat including aircraft. Your game doesn't appear to be doing that ? If not, no idea why not.
Regarding the waves, if you're running in dosbox you can reduce the cycles. But it *is* a 1994 game. Sh3 has the same problem.
Regarding character animations, I'll take the 2d AOD ones over the Frankenstein looking Zombies of SH3 with their silly repetitive motions any day. :)

[Von Grinseed]

...that was with just one version available online of Aces of the Deep. I got that from Abandonware Games (abandonwaregames.net) The water moved really fast and unnaturally (I usually play SH2) it was quite annoying and I removed the game from my computer. Now I am not criticizing Abandonware because they have provided me with quite a number of retro games that work very well. but even adjusting their DOSbox settings made no difference to the AoD water.
So I found another version this week on www.freegameempire.com and it works well, the water is still active but not as sudden or choppy as the Abandonware game runs on my computer. I am now trialing it to see if I can enjoy the benefits as has been boasted of here in this thread.
And I have found that because each of these freeware games has been subject to subjective manipulations with DOSbox the difference in performance with the same games from different sites on my rig can be substantially different.
For example the A10 Tank Killer from Abandonware (sorry guys) parts of it just dont work. It doesnt take off unless you track it all around the airfield and the missiles wont fire. It was this glitch that led me to FreeGameEmpire, whose A10 works in all departments.
So if youre a free ware slut like me and you have a game from one site that doesnt run as well as you'd like, I recommend looking around. I could be on the way to being a new Ace of the Deep.
Cheers :arrgh!:

[Silent Otto]

I'm new here so will offer this;


When originally installing the game from CD back in '95, the game was not without issues, sound aside. Game often froze up, sometimes dropping you right to the desktop and often would crash intermittently for unknown reasons. Happened in Win95, XP, Win7.


When Microsoft shifted to WIN10, the disk doesn't even load the game and I got the game online at ??? I forget... It still has issues BUT I still love playing it!


I can show some real issues, with examples here in this thread, or can start a new thread on this specific topic if more appropriate.


Which ever might be more informative to the group and future readers?


Let me know,
Tim

[John Pancoast]

I'm new here so will offer this;


When originally installing the game from CD back in '95, the game was not without issues, sound aside. Game often froze up, sometimes dropping you right to the desktop and often would crash intermittently for unknown reasons. Happened in Win95, XP, Win7.


When Microsoft shifted to WIN10, the disk doesn't even load the game and I got the game online at ??? I forget... It still has issues BUT I still love playing it!


I can show some real issues, with examples here in this thread, or can start a new thread on this specific topic if more appropriate.


Which ever might be more informative to the group and future readers?


Let me know,
Tim


I've always stuck with AOD because of this; the buggyness of CAOD and the lack of same with AOD.
Virtually every bug in CAOD does not exist in AOD. I remember at the time, Sierra stated they wanted to be the first to publish a win95 game and the rush to do so showed.

[Silent Otto]

Hi John,


Never played AOD and often wondered how different the two were.


I am hoping to discuss some the hex editing issues with Steve Hildebrand if he is still a member here? There are a lot of things in the code but you never see them show in the game for some reason.

Tim

[John Pancoast]

Hi John,


Never played AOD and often wondered how different the two were.


I am hoping to discuss some the hex editing issues with Steve Hildebrand if he is still a member here? There are a lot of things in the code but you never see them show in the game for some reason.

Tim


Hi Tim;
No difference game play wise. Slightly different in graphics, but not markedly so. CAOD bugs are the main difference.
Yes, I would love a .dat file editor ala SH3D for AOD. I do use Steve's tips to start with a VIIC in France though. :)
Enjoying your posts !

[Silent Otto]

Typed up a rather detailed one on convoys and wolfpacks but it disappeared when I did a post preview.


Still playing with posting and have some issues (no smilies; paragraph indexing, etc.). Tried to PM Neal but my PM's are not showing "sent" ???


Day or two and I should be cooking with gas!

[Jokem]

Two things.
The time compression sometimes tops out at a specific value, even when far away from any convoy. I have ridden all the way back to port with it stuck at 64x, or goofy values such as 112x.
Sometimes for no reason the game just exits the action and goes back to the menu.

[Aktungbby]

Jokem!:Kaleun_Salute::Kaleun_Salute:...after a 4-year 'silent run!':up:

[Andreas86]

Two things.
The time compression sometimes tops out at a specific value, even when far away from any convoy. I have ridden all the way back to port with it stuck at 64x, or goofy values such as 112x.
Sometimes for no reason the game just exits the action and goes back to the menu.


I also have the same ecperience with time compression. But have found that if it gets "stuck" like that on some weird compression, if you dive a short while and surface again, it will often work as normal again.


I know that in single missions, if there is no chance of action, the game goes back to menu. Does it do this in campaign as well for you?

[Jokem]

I have not found diving and resurfacing has made any difference.

On single missions, it will say something like 'broken contact' and go back to the menu. In campaign mode it will not say anything about 'broken contact' but all of a sudden go back to the menu. I think it is because I press keys too fast.

[Jokem]

I just got done playing it and it jumped back to the menu without me pressing any keys.

[Randomizer]

All of this angst over a game copyrighted 29-years and untold generations of hardware and software ago. And yet AOD still has positive features, which were never included in later U-Boat games. I'm inclined to cut it a bit more slack than some here.

Just $0.02 CAD.

-C

[Jokem]

I am not sure the responses here can be categorized as 'Anger' so much as asking for a bug fix.

FYI - I was in the middle of shelling a crippled ship and it exited back to the menu spontaneously.

[Redwing6891]

Come on, the wave effects on the uboat in AOD are more in line with a rubber duck in a bathtub. The boat is glued to a surface that is oscillating way too fast.


https://j.gifs.com/LZ9YlX.gif

:ping:

Could the wave action have something to do with DOS box settings? Like what CPU you pick or how many cycles you allow? I don't remember the 'rubber ducky in a bathtub effect' when playing it in the 90s on a 486.

I am no DOS box expert but there are other old games out there that are severely influenced by this. Strike Commander (F-16 simulator) is unplayable with normal DOS box setting as the AI is way too fast and can outmaneuver any missiles. Only by clocking down in the cycles you get a chance of actually hitting anything.

Could the wave effect be something similar? Obviously less critical as the game is still very much payable but it would be nice to get a fix.

[John Pancoast]

:haha:Could the wave action have something to do with DOS box settings? Like what CPU you pick or how many cycles you allow? I don't remember the 'rubber ducky in a bathtub effect' when playing it in the 90s on a 486.

I am no DOS box expert but there are other old games out there that are severely influenced by this. Strike Commander (F-16 simulator) is unplayable with normal DOS box setting as the AI is way too fast and can outmaneuver any missiles. Only by clocking down in the cycles you get a chance of actually hitting anything.

Could the wave effect be something similar? Obviously less critical as the game is still very much payable but it would be nice to get a fix.

Everyone, it was exactly this way out of the box fwiw. At the time it was considered amazing. Wave action had never really been done before. It never has and still doesn't bother me, but ymmv.
Not nearly as much as the SH3 mods that have the same action out of the bino view in the name of "realism".:haha:

[Andreas86]

I have tried going so far as using dos debuggers to find out what exactly controls the speed of the wave cycle, but I have not found any references yet to it. It is beyond my knowledge anyway. I might get some help for it soon. Yes, you can turn down the DOS cycles and it slows, but then the rest of the game becomes molasses too. John is right, and it was like this in Command AOD too, which was my first encounter with AOD. I remember being negative to it even then. In any case, I only play with "Calm Ocean On".