Japan to release contaminated Fukushima water into sea after treatment

[Catfish]

Good that reactors are secure, can never explode and never "release radioactivity" in the environment (read: in your place)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-disaster-fukushima-water-release/japan-to-release-contaminated-fukushima-water-into-sea-after-treatment-idUSKBN2BZ2U3

Seriously, how do they want to contain this at all?

- The contaminated earth has been "removed" over square miles, so where is it now? You cannot "decontaminate" radioactivity as any schoolboy will tell you.
You can maybe (if you are lucky, and not in Chernobyl of course) decontaminate an area, by moving the radiating stuff somewhere else, where it will then still radiate and contaminate another place then for millenia to come.

In Fukushima, all the contaminated steel and iron and fuel rods have been dumped into so-called "cooling ponds" open to the atmosphere, where they will continue to "cool" (read: radiate) for some hundred thousand years to come.

The water of those ponds will now be released into the sea, saying it would be "filtered" beforehand. :haha:

1. Can any physicist please explain how you want to "filter" radioactive water?

2. Then fresh water will have to be added to the "cooling" ponds. Which will be contaminated and have to be released again in a few years. And so on and so on.

Who do they think they are fooling?

[Dowly]

What the article fails to mention is that they plan to release the water slowly over the next 30 or so years, and that's after it's already been diluted.

[Catfish]

It will be "diluted" alright, so what does that mean other than spreading it over a larger region, or time. 30 years do not completely "decontaminate" it either with some of the substances' radioactive half life. So they filter it, what happens with the filters?
And what do they intend to do with the steel, iron, and so on. Only thing is dumping it somewhere and hope for the best.
Diluting and pumping it into the sea over the next 30 years is also not a solution, but probably the only thing that can be done anyway after the "event".

I might add i do not see any change in the coastal defenses towards another tsunami, and the other plant is still working.

"Another large earthquake, magnitude 7.3, struck Feb. 13, again off the coast of the Fukushima reactor complex, and the reported 30 seconds of terror was followed by14 aftershocks up to magnitude 5.

The quake was severe enough that its Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco) operators and federal regulators suspect it caused additional damage to reactors 1 and 3 where cooling water levels fell sharply, the Associated Press reported. The Feb. 13 quake was felt in Tokyo 150 miles away. Japan’s meteorological agency said it was believed to be an aftershock of the record 2011 quake.
At a Feb. 15 meeting, government regulators said the quake had probably worsened existing earthquake damage in reactors 1 and 3 or broken open new cracks causing the cooling water level drop, the AP said."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fukushima-tragic-legacy-radioactive-soil

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/fukushima-toxic-soil-disaster-radioactive

[Skybird]

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; but the dose makes it clear that a thing is not a poison." - Paracelsus.


The world cannot go without nuclear powerplants, but it should be switched to the latest technology levels indeed. Its not as if technology has stopped advancing. Only in Germany it has. which is a pity, becasue German reatcors once were considered to be the sefest in the world. Until that Tsunami in Asia set Germany under water so high as to reaching up to the medulla oblongata and cutting the central nervous system off the brain.

[Jimbuna]

Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?

[Skybird]

And from the - far left-leaning - Süddeutsche Zeitung:


https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/japan-fukushima-1.5263211



In an intact nuclear power plant, the cooling water runs in a closed circuit. Put simply, its heat is used to generate steam, which drives the turbines to generate electricity. But in Fukushima Daiichi the reactor pressure vessels in units one, two and three are broken. There is no longer a cycle. After coming into contact with the highly radioactive scrap from the reactors, the water runs through various leaks into the basement of the reactor building and the adjacent machine houses.

This contaminated water has to go somewhere. It is pumped out and some of it is used again for cooling. The rest has to be stored: up to 60,000 cubic meters of water are added every year. Some of this water can be purified, including with the ALPS (Advanced Liquid Processing System) system. 62 different radionuclides - types of atoms that are radioactive due to their unstable nucleus - can be extracted from the water by this system. Only tritium cannot be extracted from the water on a large industrial scale.

But tritium is such a low-emitting radionuclide that experts do not find it to be a cause for concern. According to information from the Japanese government, 30 percent of the cooling water stored in Fukushima Daiichi is treated in such a way that it falls below the limit values ​​for all nuclides except for tritium. The Japanese only want to channel this water into the water.

The International Atomic Energy Agency IAEA is accompanying the process. Its general director Rafael Grossi says: The solution with cooling water in the sea is not new. "There is no scandal here." The US government praised Japan for "weighing options and effects" and "appears to have taken an approach in line with globally recognized nuclear safety standards".

[Catfish]

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung is rather "liberal" than "left", it just does not equal your point of view, and from this point everything must be politically 'left' :roll:

It is not only Tritium though, and what exactly is being done with the filters after the water has been "cleaned"?
As your link provided: 30 percent of the water is being "cleaned, that leaves 70 percent i guess. And the whole water cooling system has cracks everywhere, so water flows through the ruins, all the time since 2011, and is being exchanged with sea water.
As they just found out the central off limits section is still too "hot" to come near it, except for robots.

[Catfish]

"[...] that caused huge amounts of radioactively contaminated water to be released, which the operators of the nuclear power plant subsequently had to clean up.

One of the methods they used was reverse osmosis but it wasn't particularly effective. Although it is possible to purify up to 70 percent of the contaminated water this way, radioactive elements accumulate in the remaining 30 percent.

Some of these elements are highly radioactive and remain so for thousands of years. As things stand, the Japanese government is planning to dump this water—over one million liters in total—in the Pacific Ocean come 2022."

Maybe if they employ a new filter system like mentioned in the link/article below, but still what do you do with the filters.

https://phys.org/news/2020-09-filtering-radioactive-elements.html

[Platapus]

If they do a long time duration dispersal over large areas of the ocean, the risks can be limited.


Tritium is not very radioactive and its decay is mostly beta particles. It also has a half-life of about 12 years and decays into H3.


There is no perfect solution to disposing of any radioactive material. But there are ways to mitigate the risks.



If, for example, they take 10,000 gallons of the already diluted and filtered waste water and evenly disperse that over, say, 100 sq miles of ocean away from the continental shelves, away from the major currents, and the risks to marine life should be minimal.


Do that 100 times in different open ocean zones over 20-30 years and you have taken care of a million gallons.


A controlled dispersal schema over deep oceans over a decade or three may be the best solution. Not a perfect solution, but I can't think of any other solutions that will work better.



In cases like this, they may just have to choose the least worst solution.

[Commander Wallace]

Good that reactors are secure, can never explode and never "release radioactivity" in the environment (read: in your place)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-disaster-fukushima-water-release/japan-to-release-contaminated-fukushima-water-into-sea-after-treatment-idUSKBN2BZ2U3

Seriously, how do they want to contain this at all?

- The contaminated earth has been "removed" over square miles, so where is it now? You cannot "decontaminate" radioactivity as any schoolboy will tell you.
You can maybe (if you are lucky, and not in Chernobyl of course) decontaminate an area, by moving the radiating stuff somewhere else, where it will then still radiate and contaminate another place then for millenia to come.

In Fukushima, all the contaminated steel and iron and fuel rods have been dumped into so-called "cooling ponds" open to the atmosphere, where they will continue to "cool" (read: radiate) for some hundred thousand years to come.

The water of those ponds will now be released into the sea, saying it would be "filtered" beforehand. :haha:

1. Can any physicist please explain how you want to "filter" radioactive water?

2. Then fresh water will have to be added to the "cooling" ponds. Which will be contaminated and have to be released again in a few years. And so on and so on.

Who do they think they are fooling?


Great breakdown Catfish. Considering the half life of the radioactively contaminated materials, I seriously doubt anything can be filtered out. These are of course the dangers in harnessing and releasing nature, in this case Uranium and Plutonium among other elements. Another reason why extreme care is needed and then, not even that is enough.


Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.
On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?


Godzilla isn't anything to mess with. :haha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muUZjovOFRg




Consider this my entry in today's music thread, Jim. :yep:

[Rhodes]

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?


My thoughts after hearing the news was more, why all the trouble, just call Godzilla and he will take care of the radiation. Possibly would drink the all thing!

https://i.gifer.com/ZfzA.gif

[Skybird]

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung is rather "liberal" than "left", it just does not equal your point of view, and from this point everything must be politically 'left' :roll:

SZ and FR are equally lefty. Only the TAZ is even more lefty. Die Zeit has moved left as well, but not as far as SZ and FR.

Personally I currently prefer Swiss NZZ, American NBC, sometimes British BBC, and to less extend German FOCUS, it sometime sis good, bot often too populistic.

I like Helmut Schmidts comment according to which he would rather read the NZZ straight away instead of the intel reports by the BND. :D

[Rockstar]

If they do a long time duration dispersal over large areas of the ocean, the risks can be limited.


Tritium is not very radioactive and its decay is mostly beta particles. It also has a half-life of about 12 years and decays into H3.





My lensatic compass uses Tritium to illuminate the dial and needle at night. It requires replenishment every twelve years.

[nikimcbee]

Very devious imho....the food chain in the sea will grow x10 in terms of individual specimen size and the traders in the fish markets will make a fortune.

On the other hand, did they consider the effect on Godzilla?


:Kaleun_Wink:You stole my Godzilla joke/reference. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[nikimcbee]

Great breakdown Catfish. Considering the half life of the radioactively contaminated materials, I seriously doubt anything can be filtered out. These are of course the dangers in harnessing and releasing nature, in this case Uranium and Plutonium among other elements. Another reason why extreme care is needed and then, not even that is enough.





Godzilla isn't anything to mess with. :haha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muUZjovOFRg




Consider this my entry in today's music thread, Jim. :yep:

My thoughts after hearing the news was more, why all the trouble, just call Godzilla and he will take care of the radiation. Possibly would drink the all thing!

https://i.gifer.com/ZfzA.gif

:Kaleun_Wink:You stole my Godzilla joke/reference. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:


Man am I late to the Gojira dance.:k_confused:
Good thing I'm East Coast now. I can't imagine crabbing now.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-obU37IftH4k%2FUW6-lZSZFHI%2FAAAAAAAAAE8%2FpqG8-k4dZF8%2Fs1600%2FEbirah.jpg&f=1&nofb=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12IqYdAaDs8

[Catfish]

^ and more of those above :har:

[Commander Wallace]

Man am I late to the Gojira dance.:k_confused:
Good thing I'm East Coast now. I can't imagine crabbing now.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-obU37IftH4k%2FUW6-lZSZFHI%2FAAAAAAAAAE8%2FpqG8-k4dZF8%2Fs1600%2FEbirah.jpg&f=1&nofb=1





You might have been late to the party but you still made it. That's all that counts. :up:

[Aktungbby]

I jus' hope the little nippers are into 'fuku-sushi '! :Kaleun_Sick::oops::dead:

[THE_MASK]

I feel sorry for the local fisherman trying to earn a living and support there families . Who is going to eat fish from there if it is harmless or not .

[Catfish]

Did not want to start a new thread, are there also Godzillas in China?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/what-happened-chinas-taishan-nuclear-reactor-2021-06-15/

"Li Ning, a Chinese nuclear scientist based in the United States, told Reuters that CNN was "making a mountain out of a molehill" and that it was unrealistic to expect "zero failure" in the fuel cladding of nuclear projects anywhere in the world.

Li said the media were "often unwilling to put risks into proper perspective", which he said had effectively killed off the nuclear industry in the west."

Did it? I think it only killed Germany's nuclear industry, but then no reactor here has been shut down despite official reassurances :D. They are all still online, though the nuclear industry received millions for their expected financial losses.

[Aktungbby]

I jus' hope the little nippers are into 'fuku-sushi '! :Kaleun_Sick::oops::dead:

I feel sorry for the local fisherman trying to earn a living and support there families . Who is going to eat fish from there if it is harmless or not . I thought i just said that!:O:

[vienna]

I've been kind of following the discussions on NHK of the idea of releasing the reactor water into the sea and the tone seems to be one of high ambivalence; there is the stark realization the waste has to go somewhere combined with the Japanese long-acquired empirical cognition of the effects of nuclear radiation; NHK has regularly been broadcasting news stories and documentaries detailing the disaster and its aftermath; the net effect on the Fukushima region is rather much akin to the effects seen at Hiroshima and Nagasaki when it comes to radiation; there are entire villages and towns that no longer exist because the radiation risk is so high and they exist like ghost town 'monuments' to the extent of the disaster (and that is apart from the jaw dropping damage done by the tsunami); its not just the fishermen and their connected industries; it is also the farmers, the dry land industries, the mom-and-pop-shops, the tourist industry, and scores of other businesses and enterprise, small and large, that have had their lives wrenched from them; ten years on, the wounds are still open and still very fresh; the Japanese refer to Fukushima as "3/11" much the same way US citizens refer to the WTC disaster as "9/11", and they have just as large a sense of national loss and anguish as we in the States; we have spent the last 20 years trying to make sense of and rectify what happened on 9/11; the Japanese have spent the last decade trying to make sense of and rectify what happened on 3/11, and now face even more very hard decisions upcoming; as with us, who have found ourselves burdened by a seemingly inescapable quagmire in the ME, the Japanese people are facing a very classic, and tragic, 'damned if you d,o damned if you don't' set of choices...




<O>