decoys

[mikesn9]

I remember, from some time ago, using decoys. I think I was running stock 1.4 o1r 1.5.


Using FOTRSU 1.39 now. I haven't run across any decoys to use, 'purchase', or anything.


I've been through many ships, home bases, start dates, etc, still no decoys available.


Have they been removed from the game?
If not, where/when are they available.


Thanks

[Moonlight]

Semicolon key, ";" the one to the right of the "L" key, if that doesn't work there's something wrong with your game.

[mikesn9]

Semicolon key, ";" the one to the right of the "L" key, if that doesn't work there's something wrong with your game.


interesting, I had been using the button in the command room, and getting "no decoys" to launch. I hadn't tried it again for long time.

Tested it out and both the button and ";" do launch them.

Could it have been TMOwtw?

[propbeanie]

That functionality was added back into FotRSU a while back, but I can't remember when / which version... The "load-out" for them will eventiually be more restrictively controlled by date before too long, and in conjunction with different torpedo load-outs, might be able to offer another level of "reality" with some of the missions during the early & mid war periods, even though it will involve a "cobbled together" paradigm... The idea will have to be strictly date-controlled, and from what we've seen, the game, entirely too often, runs over attempts at restricting certain aspects of the game by date, so the idea we have may not come to fruition... :roll: We'll see. In the meantime, the availability of decoys is not as restrictive as in real life, though the amount might be somewhat low for late war missions. More research is needed for such... :salute:

[Moonlight]

How many decoys are there anyway, I only ever use them when I hit the wrong key by mistake, I don't know if they're even useful as a defensive tactic and I don't know how long they last either, does anyone know?.

[propbeanie]

Top of my head, full of cobwebs and phlegm? Five... six?? I have ~never~ had much luck with "decoys". They always seem to put the escorts on top of me, instead of the decoy. Very frustrating. Probably has to do with "skill" (or lack there-of) on my part... :roll: - they do seem to assist in getting me sunk sooner... :har:

[KaleunMarco]

How many decoys are there anyway, I only ever use them when I hit the wrong key by mistake, I don't know if they're even useful as a defensive tactic and I don't know how long they last either, does anyone know?.

THAT is a very good question because there are a few different generations of decoys defined.

i DO use decoys on occasion but i do not stick around long enough to measure their effect.

in the PTO, i find their most effective use is during the escape phase of my attack. i deploy the decoy when i am about to dive under the thermocline. i deploy the decoy and then change depth, speed and course.

if the sea is too shallow to provide a thermocline, i still deploy and then change depth, speed and course.

i am certain that there are other tactics using decoys that have success however i have not discovered them.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

Top of my head, full of cobwebs and phlegm? Five... six?? I have ~never~ had much luck with "decoys". They always seem to put the escorts on top of me, instead of the decoy. Very frustrating. Probably has to do with "skill" (or lack there-of) on my part... :roll: - they do seem to assist in getting me sunk sooner... :har:

If I recall correctly, objectively.. after launching, you want to radically change course & depth... if at all possible, go deeper... & of course quickly & quietly as is possible... I'd say go balls out emergency ahead, to get the ball rolling on course change & once you got signs of that happening then go all quiet & start the dive... of course, that is supposition on My part.. haven't had to try & use them... YET.. being the operative word.

What I outlined, is what I can get My cranky, rusty, dusty, cobweb filled ol' dino of a HD called My brain to recall & it may or may not be 100% spot on.. I do admit... freely. :D

Just please... :D don't shoot the messenger (namely Me :yep:)

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[mikesn9]

If I recall correctly, objectively.. after launching, you want to radically change course & depth... if at all possible, go deeper... & of course quickly & quietly as is possible... I'd say go balls out emergency ahead, to get the ball rolling on course change & once you got signs of that happening then go all quiet & start the dive... of course, that is supposition on My part.. haven't had to try & use them... YET.. being the operative word.

What I outlined, is what I can get My cranky, rusty, dusty, cobweb filled ol' dino of a HD called My brain to recall & it may or may not be 100% spot on.. I do admit... freely. :D

Just please... :D don't shoot the messenger (namely Me :yep:)

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:


When I was able to use them, that was the strategy I used. deploy decoys close to thermal, dive deeper, 2/3 or 1/3 bell, change course sometimes right back at the DD's. They'd usually scream right over me.

[Bubblehead1980]

I modded the decoys for TMO because they seemed ineffective and frankly in later war(when they were actually introduced) they are needed due to the shallow water operations that become the norm. I edited the file where they make noise, raised it from 0.0 to 0.50. Did not increase the duration beyond the default 15 minutes but did raised the number carried to 15. They are effective for a time, especially if have multiple escorts, will distract one or two for a few minutes but does not nerf the AI.

[Moonlight]

What file are these decoy thingies in?, I had a quick look through the Sh4 library folder but I came up with nothing as usual. :O:

[KaleunMarco]

What file are these decoy thingies in?, I had a quick look through the Sh4 library folder but I came up with nothing as usual. :O:
i thought Decoys was in the Library\USSubparts but now it is not there.
i have to find it now.

[Arlo]

I'll ask for forgiveness in advance, as I readily admit my focus for years in WWII history has been U.S. Naval aircraft and not submarines. It's only been recently (ten years or so) that my curiosity about fleet subs has driven me to explore deeper into facts and those may be shallower than I would like to admit.

If we're talking about U.S. fleet boats and not German U-Boats, I was unaware of the use of any decoy devices during WWII. The earliest reference that I've run across is the Mk 70 MOSS (mobile sub simulator) used in the mid seventies. If anyone can point me to a source that will educate me on U.S. WWII submarine decoy use, I would greatly appreciate it (seriously, filling gaps in my historical knowledge is somewhat of a joy).

Thanks, guys.

[Bubblehead1980]

I'll ask for forgiveness in advance, as I readily admit my focus for years in WWII history has been U.S. Naval aircraft and not submarines. It's only been recently (ten years or so) that my curiosity about fleet subs has driven me to explore deeper into facts and those may be shallower than I would like to admit.

If we're talking about U.S. fleet boats and not German U-Boats, I was unaware of the use of any decoy devices during WWII. The earliest reference that I've run across is the Mk 70 MOSS (mobile sub simulator) used in the mid seventies. If anyone can point me to a source that will educate me on U.S. WWII submarine decoy use, I would greatly appreciate it (seriously, filling gaps in my historical knowledge is somewhat of a joy).

Thanks, guys.

US submarines did have later in war. Germans called them "BOLD", Allies called them SBT(Submarine Bubble Target). I'll have to search my plethora of saved sites, books etc for sources but from what I recall, US began implementing them into the newer Balao boats in mid late 44, Tench class of course. Retrofitted to some of the older Balao/Gato classes. Would not describe them as standard equipment at the time, but would become so, war ended first.

I recall Fluckey mentioning Barb using them on patrol in 1945, also had "Cutie" homing torpedoes. How far things had come in such a short time, with acoustin decoys and homing torpedoes.


In SH 4 stock they came standard from day 1 of the war (lol) which drove me nuts and were then not effective. Various mods have handled them differently. In TMO they become available as an equipment upgrade and in much later war are standard equipment but never found them very helpful. I changed the availability date as it was too early to be standard, cost too little (like the homing torpedo). I adjusted the effectiveness a bit from stock and TMO levels, they work but do not completely nerf the AI. Best use is in late war with convoys had many escorts, can keep a few of them distracted while one or two are on player sub. Quite useful in shallow water as well, which player will be forced to operate in at some point (just as subs were in real life) but of course due to limited number carried, must use them wisely.

[propbeanie]

Sink 'em All and a few other books make mention of them, and 1945 rings a bell for me... I'll try to dig through some references later. They were ~after~ the FM sonar and Hell Bells.

[KaleunMarco]

Sink 'em All and a few other books make mention of them, and 1945 rings a bell for me... I'll try to dig through some references later. They were ~after~ the FM sonar and Hell Bells.

weapons that we refer to as decoys, for subs to jam surface hydrophone/sonar detection, were not implemented until late spring 1945. Lockwood discusses the R&D several times in Sink 'Em All.

[1Patriotofmany]

The objective is to put the decoys in between you and the sonar of the hunting ship or ships. Yes they do work. You need to maneuver as others have said. i usually put a fast burst of speed on, change course then SLOW speed. Proceed to deep depth as possible or below the incline layer when I get caught slacking.

[Arlo]

Finally found the quote (2nd hand) of Lockwood mentioning observing a test of a submarine decoy at Pearl Harbor:

"While at Pearl Harbor on April 19th (1945), I took advantage of the opportunity to see test runs of a secret decoy intended to aid submarines in evading counterattacks by escort vessels. Skate and the destroyer escort, Whitman put on the show and, after the submarine acquired the proper technique, she succeeded in eluding the DE in both of the final runs. This was the gadget which I had first seen operating in a fresh water reservoir in August, 1944, and for which we had been praying ever since Its use in enemy waters might have saved the lives of hundreds of submariners and millions of dollars worth of submarines."

~~~~

Japan surrenders on Aug. 14, 1945

He's not talking about general deployment on U.S. submarines during WWII.

[les green01]

you guys are using the wrong decoys it bras and panties just ask the men of the sea tiger

[KaleunMarco]

Finally found the quote (2nd hand) of Lockwood mentioning observing a test of a submarine decoy at Pearl Harbor:

"While at Pearl Harbor on April 19th (1945), I took advantage of the opportunity to see test runs of a secret decoy intended to aid submarines in evading counterattacks by escort vessels. Skate and the destroyer escort, Whitman put on the show and, after the submarine acquired the proper technique, she succeeded in eluding the DE in both of the final runs. This was the gadget which I had first seen operating in a fresh water reservoir in August, 1944, and for which we had been praying ever since Its use in enemy waters might have saved the lives of hundreds of submariners and millions of dollars worth of submarines."

~~~~

Japan surrenders on Aug. 14, 1945

He's not talking about general deployment on U.S. submarines during WWII.

yeah, they never really made it out into combat.
it was one of things that Lockwood really agonized about. Felt one or two defensive weapons could have/would have saved boats and crews.
this and the verdammt torpedoes for the first two years of the war. "it is a damn shame that our valiant crews have to sail five thousand miles just to find out that their torpedoes don't work."
but that is another story.
:Kaleun_Salute:

[Arlo]

you guys are using the wrong decoys it bras and panties just ask the men of the sea tiger

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/681ac7d2-8193-4fb1-96d0-8f30e3d26518_1.a1eb9f87ea3b0268578cd10ba78641e1.jp eg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff

https://theweereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/MV5BZWEwNTVjNmYtNmQ5OS00Mzk0LTk3Y2EtZDJkZWY3MGNmMD U3XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzY1MzQyOTY@._V1_SX1777_CR001777 999_AL_.jpg

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: