Escort carrier aircraft

[John Pancoast]

Historically, an Avenger and a Wildcat were usually paired up to attack a u-boat. In fact Avenger pilots were under orders not to attack without a Wildcat pairing. I don't know what British policy was.
The Wildcat would strafe the boat suppressing AA/crew followed by the Avenger bombing/depth charging and then a FIDO if/when the boat submerged. Bombing in any form was not a Wildcat function.
While I haven't run across the carriers too often, I've only seen an Avenger now and then.
I know the Wildcat wasn't part of the stock game; GWX has it, NYGM does not, i.e.
The Casablanca in GWX has an Avenger and Wildcat squadron while the Bogue is only Avenger.
Anyone seen both planes attack from an escort carrier, preferably together ?

[Mister_M]

Anyone seen both planes attack from an escort carrier, preferably together ?

Is it even possible ? :hmmm:

[FUBAR295]

John,

That was some interesting information.:yeah: Anyway, I have not seen that type of pairing in NYGM, which I have played since it was RUB and the most often.

I am not a good gauge as I'm a scaredy cat when it comes to aircraft, and the times I have got caught on the surface, if paired, it was always the same type as I recall.

I do not think the historical application of the paired aircraft, one strafing the other bombing, could be made to work in SH3.

But thanks for that tactical nugget.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Thanks guys. Regarding two planes attacking together I found "Having received permission to use rubini's torpedo aircraft, I've also worked out how to use mixed squadrons so that while you're crash diving to avoid a bomb armed Fairey Swordfish there is another Swordfish dropping a Fido on you. Nasty!" from here (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203511) but couldn't find the mod involved. AOD has them attacking together in pairs so maybe can be done in SH3 ?
Anyone had a Wildcat attack them ? I'm going to add them/squadron to the Bogue in NYGM. I noticed the Wildcat in GWX carries bombs so I removed those but have to see if it does anything without them.
Regarding a carrier I did sink the Bogue once in NYGM and it rolled over and capsized before it sunk which was impressive.
Saw a wolfpack sub sink one too, also in NYGM.

[FUBAR295]

It does not appear that this mod was ever released in any form. Be great to know how far his research went.

I have a copy of Rubini's air torpedo mod if you need it. You may be able to figure it out.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

It does not appear that this mod was ever released in any form. Be great to know how far his research went.

I have a copy of Rubini's air torpedo mod if you need it. You may be able to figure it out.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Thanks Bob, I have Rubini's mod somewhere on this hard drive..........:)

[John Pancoast]

Looking at Rubini's campaign files, it would be easy enough to add Wildcats to the Avenger RndGroups and they could use the same waypoints, etc.
But has anyone ever actually been attacked by a carrier spawned Wildcat, i.e., in GWX, with guns only ?

[Randomizer]

One late-war career I was attacked by what I think was a pair of carrier-based fighters. My boat was snorkelling through the Orkney-Faeroe's Gap when two planes appeared on the chart screen, very close and without radar detector indication. It was overcast and I had very little time to retract the snorkel and dive. It actually takes some time to dive dynamically to safety from snorkel depth, something that I imagine was true in the event.

I am certain that they were single-seat carrier-based fighters, as the attack occurred far from the closest land base (Lerwick in the Shetland's) and no bombs or torpedoes were dropped. The distance would imply that they were from a carrier and I had a convoy, which had appeared ~100 km away although in 1944, no intercept was possible because of the relative courses and the necessity to remain submerged. Each aircraft made two passes with what sounded like machine guns but my boat suffered no damage, which was fortunate since I had neglected to retract the sky periscope. Everything happened so very fast that it was impossible to get a visual ID but sadly I cannot recall if the career was being played in NYGM or GWX3.

It's a bit of a shocker to be snorkelling happily at x32 TC when suddenly a pair of aircraft icons appear right on top of you!

That said, AOD probably still does aircraft attacks better than SH3/4 I think, in its charming, chunky VGA way.

-C

[FUBAR295]

Looking at Rubini's campaign files, it would be easy enough to add Wildcats to the Avenger RndGroups and they could use the same waypoints, etc.
But has anyone ever actually been attacked by a carrier spawned Wildcat, i.e., in GWX, with guns only ?

Good question, John.

I certainly do not recall such.

Maybe check the Steel Sharks Campaign files to see if they might have something akin to that.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Another question; Rubini included single missions. I'd like to just add a Wildcat to one of those to test that plane.
I don't have much experience with the mission editor; how can I add a Wildcat to the Avenger single mission for testing ?
I can setup a blank .rnd file for testing but figured to try this method first.

[John Pancoast]

One late-war career I was attacked by what I think was a pair of carrier-based fighters. My boat was snorkelling through the Orkney-Faeroe's Gap when two planes appeared on the chart screen, very close and without radar detector indication. It was overcast and I had very little time to retract the snorkel and dive. It actually takes some time to dive dynamically to safety from snorkel depth, something that I imagine was true in the event.

I am certain that they were single-seat carrier-based fighters, as the attack occurred far from the closest land base (Lerwick in the Shetland's) and no bombs or torpedoes were dropped. The distance would imply that they were from a carrier and I had a convoy, which had appeared ~100 km away although in 1944, no intercept was possible because of the relative courses and the necessity to remain submerged. Each aircraft made two passes with what sounded like machine guns but my boat suffered no damage, which was fortunate since I had neglected to retract the sky periscope. Everything happened so very fast that it was impossible to get a visual ID but sadly I cannot recall if the career was being played in NYGM or GWX3.

It's a bit of a shocker to be snorkelling happily at x32 TC when suddenly a pair of aircraft icons appear right on top of you!

That said, AOD probably still does aircraft attacks better than SH3/4 I think, in its charming, chunky VGA way.

-C

Thanks ! It wouldn't have been NYGM as the Wildcat isn't in it. Yes, AOD handles many things better :) Btw, I think its charming, chunky SVGA !:haha: Thanks also FB.

[John Pancoast]

It does not appear that this mod was ever released in any form. Be great to know how far his research went.

I have a copy of Rubini's air torpedo mod if you need it. You may be able to figure it out.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295


FB, you able to get this mod to load in the GWX campaign ? Works fine for me in the single missions but the campaign ctds trying to load. With or without Wildcats added. Does load in an NYGM or stock install.
Double checked the .rnd file and the merge was done correctly.

[FUBAR295]

FB, you able to get this mod to load in the GWX campaign ? Works fine for me in the single missions but the campaign ctds trying to load. With or without Wildcats added. Does load in an NYGM or stock install.
Double checked the .rnd file and the merge was done correctly.

John,

I'll give it a go and see what happens. Let you know.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

John,

I'll give it a go and see what happens. Let you know.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Ok thanks. No rush at all. Strangely, even using the mod file with a blank .rnd file (saves loading time) doesn't work in GWX but does in NYGM and stock.
I have a campaign going with the GWX .rnd file so it does work without the mod.

[John Pancoast]

Another interesting historical bit; u-boat combat ready Avengers needed 28 knots of "wind" to take off from an escort carrier. When it wasn't all there naturally higher carrier speed and catapult were used on take off.
The 15 m/s wind in the game is just over 29 knots.

[FUBAR295]

Ok thanks. No rush at all. Strangely, even using the mod file with a blank .rnd file (saves loading time) doesn't work in GWX but does in NYGM and stock.
I have a campaign going with the GWX .rnd file so it does work without the mod.

Rubini's readme states that the should be compatible with all SH3 installations, so it should work in GWX. Let you know how things go.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Update. I'm unable to get this mod's aircraft to show up in the campaign even after increasing their rndgroup spawn percentage to 100%. :hmmm:
They do in the single missions and all the other aircraft show up as before.

[FUBAR295]

John,

I get a CTD when using this mod in GWX, same as you. What I think is happening is that Stiebler's mod Air Torpedo (FIDO) may be causing the issue in the H.sie selector. Tried unchecking but got same result.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

John,

I get a CTD when using this mod in GWX, same as you. What I think is happening is that Stiebler's mod Air Torpedo (FIDO) may be causing the issue in the H.sie selector. Tried unchecking but got same result.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Ok thanks for the confirmation. I don't think Stiebler's FIDO mod is the problem as it actually worked fine several times in my other installs testing with this mod. Actually prefer his FIDO mod version anyway; simple and it works. Besides, nobody on a u-boat saw one dropped/hit the sub anyway. :)
I'm really only interested in this mod in terms of pairing a Wildcat with it, since at least according to that thread link I posted earlier, it can be done with this mod.
But I can't get this mods aircraft to appear in anything but the single missions anyway.
So I think might be best to just add the Wildcat to NYGM's CVE squadrons if one wants them with NYGM. I'm going to give that a try and change their load outs to guns only and see how it does in both NYGM and GWX that way.
But thats for next week; gone this weekend.

[FUBAR295]

:Kaleun_Salute:
Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[Mister_M]

Is it even possible that 2 different planes are spawned at the same time from a carrier ? :hmmm:

[John Pancoast]

Is it even possible that 2 different planes are spawned at the same time from a carrier ? :hmmm:

Probably not. I'm just curious to see if a Wildcat will and if so, will it attack with guns only.

[blackswan40]

Hi John Steel Sharks GWX Campaign Writer thats me we didnt use the HSIE patch as for british escort carriers i paired 2-3 avengers and 2-3 martlets

and for american escorts carriers 2-3 avengers and 2-3 wildcats but same aircraft types grouped leader and two wingmen so to speak.


Also when playing GWX multiplayer missions with a escort carrier attached to a convoy like Convoy HG76 aircraft would spawn from carrier even when i did not put any aircraft in mission.



regards blackswan40

[John Pancoast]

Hi John Steel Sharks GWX Campaign Writer thats me we didnt use the HSIE patch as for british escort carriers i paired 2-3 avengers and 2-3 martlets

and for american escorts carriers 2-3 avengers and 2-3 wildcats but same aircraft types grouped leader and two wingmen so to speak.


regards blackswan40

Thanks ! Were they able to fly/attack together ? Using same aircraft types I would imagine so ?

[blackswan40]

Hi John ill make a single player GWX Mission tomorrow and test it if all goes well ill upload it for you to play with it and also look at it in the mission editor

they did attack but all the same aircraft were in a V Formation 1 flyte of Avengers 1 flyte of wildcats ill put one avenger as leader with 2 wildcat wingmen two flytes of

watch this space for a update tomorrow with screenies and if all goes well ill upload mission

regards blackswan40 Andrew Oldfield

[John Pancoast]

Hi John ill make a single player GWX Mission tomorrow and test it if all goes well ill upload it for you to play with it and also look at it in the mission editor

they did attack but all the same aircraft were in a V Formation 1 flyte of Avengers 1 flyte of wildcats ill put one avenger as leader with 2 wildcat wingmen two flytes of

watch this space for a update tomorrow with screenies and if all goes well ill upload mission

regards blackswan40 Andrew Oldfield

:up: Really helpful tip !

[John Pancoast]

Been messing around with Bogue squadrons of one Avenger/Wildcat each. Only spawning separately and the Wildcat hasn't used guns when attacking.
Pity that a game eleven years before SH3 could simulate this. Price of 3d graphics I guess. :hmmm:

[blackswan40]

Closing the Gap (GWX) Single Player Mission

Download Link Below

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5761

44 Merchants

8 Escorts Protecting the Convoy

1 CVE with 5 Escorts at Rear of Convoy

Flight-1 Avenger and two Wildcat Wingmen (Elite 60knts @ 400mts hight)

Flight-2 Avenger and two Wildcat Wingmen (Elite 55knts @ 350mts hight)

Flight-3 Avenger and 1 Wildcat Wingman (Elite 70knts @ 450mts hight)

Flight-4 Avenger and 1 Wildcat Wingman (Elite 75knt s @ 480mts hight)

B-24 Liberator x2 (Veteran 60knts @ 500mts hight)

Theres another tweak i want to try all the aircraft have default entry date on the first mark of that Aircraft eg may 42 when the mission is may 43 but you can alter the year and aircraft mk version in the mission editor but then it reverts back but im going to make note on what mk version i can go up to on each type of aircraft then open the mission up in notepad and change default entry year and mk of the aircraft then pick the latest mk version of the aircraft in the mission editor and test the mission and see if that makes a difference.

[John Pancoast]

Closing the Gap (GWX) Single Player Mission

Download Link Below

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5761

44 Merchants

8 Escorts Protecting the Convoy

1 CVE with 5 Escorts at Rear of Convoy

Flight-1 Avenger and two Wildcat Wingmen (Elite 60knts @ 400mts hight)

Flight-2 Avenger and two Wildcat Wingmen (Elite 55knts @ 350mts hight)

Flight-3 Avenger and 1 Wildcat Wingman (Elite 70knts @ 450mts hight)

Flight-4 Avenger and 1 Wildcat Wingman (Elite 75knt s @ 480mts hight)

B-24 Liberator x2 (Veteran 60knts @ 500mts hight)

Theres another tweak i want to try all the aircraft have default entry date on the first mark of that Aircraft eg may 42 when the mission is may 43 but you can alter the year and aircraft mk version in the mission editor but then it reverts back but im going to make note on what mk version i can go up to on each type of aircraft then open the mission up in notepad and change default entry year and mk of the aircraft then pick the latest mk version of the aircraft in the mission editor and test the mission and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks, sounds great ! I'll take a look asap.

[John Pancoast]

blackswan40, ran through the mission a few times, interesting ! For some reason I was unable to cycle to the aircraft via external view but used the event view anyway.
I tried editing the Wildcats so they didn't drop bombs (they didn't irl) and also only one Cat and one Avenger per pair but I'm not very familar with the editor and couldn't get it to work for some reason.
But overall looks great !

[blackswan40]

Hi John Re tweaking Wildcats so they dont drop bombs click on the Wildfcats then alter bombload out to Basic but aircraft with Basic Loadouts tend to dive into the sea as they dont pull out of dive you could alter the altitude of the aircraft also

[John Pancoast]

Hi John Re tweaking Wildcats so they dont drop bombs click on the Wildfcats then alter bombload out to Basic but aircraft with Basic Loadouts tend to dive into the sea as they dont pull out of dive you could alter the altitude of the aircraft also

Thanks, I saw how to do it in the editor, saved it, but then the entire mission wouldn't show in the game menu for some reason.
No big deal though.

[blackswan40]

Hi John when you saved it did you save as same mission name so it saves into Folder of same name in Single Missions

[John Pancoast]

Hi John when you saved it did you save as same mission name so it saves into Folder of same name in Single Missions

Did both; a new name and the original name. I'll try it again when I get a chance.

[Mister_M]

If an aircraft doen't carry any bomb, it won't attack you. If you want to be attacked by an aircraft without being actually bombed, the plane must carry "dummy bombs" (see bombs file of GWX).

An aircraft carrier with both planes on the deck : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2734124&postcount=38

[Anvar1061]

An aircraft carrier with both planes on the deck
Yes, if you change its air group:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif
[AirGroup 1]
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19420501
Squadron1Class=FBHurricaneMk1
Squadron1No=12

[AirGroup 2]
StartDate=19420502
EndDate=19451231
Squadron1Class=TBAvenger
Squadron1No=9
Squadron2Class=FBWildcat
Squadron2No=12

[blackswan40]

thanks for the headsup guys

[Anvar1061]

Thank blackswan40!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Cheers-1.gif
Single Mission included in GWR v21 along with Bogue-class escort carrier.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2734166&postcount=15600

[John Pancoast]

Thanks for the info. Anvar and MM !

[Mister_M]

Thank blackswan40!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Cheers-1.gif
Single Mission included in GWR v21 along with Bogue-class escort carrier.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2734166&postcount=15600

So, are both airplanes spawned at the same time ?