USA: Three Shot & Killed over Shoveling Snow

[iambecomelife]

Do you politely settle your differences over something so trivial? No. You pull out an AR-15 and start shooting. Because you're a tough guy, you see.

There is an EXTREMELY graphic video of this killing available on the internet; I have not included it, moderators. This is just a news report. The reporter almost breaks down crying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIk11LdaLaw

This is why I am polite to my neighbors even when they are wrong and I am right. There are scum in this country who will flash their iron at you over anything. And now three people are dead. What a waste of life.

From the Post:

"Disturbing new video captured the dramatic clash between a man and his neighbors shoveling snow in Pennsylvania that escalated to a murder-suicide.

Surveillance footage showed the married couple yelling obscenities at the man before he grabs a gun and shoots them both in the middle of the street Monday morning in Plains Township."

[Cybermat47]

Seems like the Goys were being pretty unreasonable, but nothing justifies Spaide murdering them. I would say that he had some pretty serious issues before this, and this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Someone in that state of mind shouldn’t have had access to firearms.

[iambecomelife]

Seems like the Goys were being pretty unreasonable, but nothing justifies Spaide murdering them. I would say that he had some pretty serious issues before this, and this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Someone in that state of mind shouldn’t have had access to firearms.

Yeah. I feel so disgusted now. And it's not just this, it seems like everyone is so nasty and confrontational these days ... in any number of viral videos you see adults acting like babies, and being violent for no good reason.

Turns out the Goys had an autistic son, who is now orphaned. May his parents RIP.

[Sonicfire1981]

Yeah. I feel so disgusted now. And it's not just this, it seems like everyone is so nasty and confrontational these days ... in any number of viral videos you see adults acting like babies, and being violent for no good reason.

Turns out the Goys had an autistic son, who is now orphaned. May his parents RIP.

I do understand where your 2nd amendment comes from, but I wonder if it's such a good idea to cling to it. It's just a thought...

[Skybird]

That's why its called "snowball fight".

[3catcircus]

Yeah. I feel so disgusted now. And it's not just this, it seems like everyone is so nasty and confrontational these days ... in any number of viral videos you see adults acting like babies, and being violent for no good reason.

Turns out the Goys had an autistic son, who is now orphaned. May his parents RIP.

I'm not suggesting someone deserves to be shot over some snow, but it begs the question of what their relationship with their neighbor was like before this.

I also have a difficult time understanding why (if the reporting is correct) the Goys would shovel snow *across* the road into a neighbor's yard? It sounds like they were the actual instigators and had an ongoing feud with him.

https://meaww.com/james-lisa-goy-jeffrey-spaide-argument-pennsylvania-neighbor-shovelling-snow-three-deaths-shootout

Based upon this news report, it may turn it to be that the Goys were sh!t neighbors and Spaide had had enough. I'm guessing we'll find out that the cops had been called multiple times in the past. Because that's usually how these things go - someone is antisocial, there is an argument, the cops come out and do nothing, it escalates into an ongoing blood-feud with the cops doing nothing each time they are called until one party snaps.

I think we're *more* unsafe now with all of our gun control laws than we were in the "wild" west when most places had no gun control whatsoever - you'd be safer in 1870s Kansas than 2021 Chicago...

[Jimbuna]

Tragic ans senseless :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

From the mayhem that preceded the shooting (which in NO way do I condone), the two neighbors weren't angels.

“If you step out of here, I’ll knock your a– out,” the male neighbor can be heard saying to the shooter.

Police said Jeffrey Spaide, 47, shot dead his neighbors, James Goy, 50, and his wife, Lisa, 48, after arguing about shoveling snow onto each other’s property.

“I’ll make your life a living hell living here, d–khead,” James can be heard shouting, to which Spaide responds, “What? … F–k you, you f–king scum.”

James’ wife, who is carrying a shovel, then chimes in, “You’re the f–king scumbag. You don’t know how to talk to somebody.”

“That’s right … You’re a p—y, p—y, p—y,” her husband continues while flipping off the man.

I mean, you challenge someone to a fight in the middle of the street... Not smart. People do snap.

Video: https://nypost.com/2021/02/04/video-shows-snow-shoveling-fight-that-escalated-to-murder-suicide/

[Skybird]

Case promoted from "snowball fight" to "screwball comedy" then.

[bstanko6]

I saw that. Completely horrific.

[3catcircus]

From the mayhem that preceded the shooting (which in NO way do I condone), the two neighbors weren't angels.



I mean, you challenge someone to a fight in the middle of the street... Not smart. People do snap.

Video: https://nypost.com/2021/02/04/video-shows-snow-shoveling-fight-that-escalated-to-murder-suicide/


Unfortunately, modern society looks at the Goys as if they are victims instead of equally at fault. If this was the "wild west," I'm sure witnesses would be testifying as to their instigation and Spaide likely would have been cleared of wrongdoing or would have been found guilty of a lesser crime. Perhaps if *that* type of result happened more often nowadays, people would be more neighborly...



Instead, we have people who continue to verbally and physically abuse others with seemingly no repercussions from the law until such time that the person on the receiving end snaps.

[skidman]

Firearms and a lack of impulse control is a deadly mélange. And defending the shooter and blaming the victims is a true sign of insanity.

[d@rk51d3]

Don’t bring a snow shovel to a gunfight.

[GoldenRivet]

You pull out an AR-15

source?

reports i have read indicate its a hand gun that was used

or is this another case out of the "always assume its an AR-15" playbook?

it seems like everyone is so nasty and confrontational these days ... in any number of viral videos

people have always been garbage.

they have always beat each other up over cabage patch dolls and christmas decorations and snow shovels and your fence is too close to my driveway blah blah blah

the thing of it is... we didnt always have "viral videos"

the world hasnt gotten crappier, people havnt gotten worse

we just all share a much smaller planet now

[3catcircus]

Firearms and a lack of impulse control is a deadly mélange. And defending the shooter and blaming the victims is a true sign of insanity.

So you are saying that the Goys should have been allowed to continue their verbal abuse of Spaide and tossing of snow into his yard unmolested?

No one is defending what he did, but many of us who understand modern US civilization understand exactly what happened and why.

[skidman]

So you're saying someone who does something not allowed should be shot?

[3catcircus]

So you're saying someone who does something not allowed should be shot?

No - I'm saying that when you instigate a fight and taunt an armed individual and dare them to shoot you, you shouldn't be surprised when they do. It appears that the two parties had an ongoing feud that finally came to a head.

[skidman]

Victim blaming again. Ah, whatever...

[3catcircus]

Victim blaming again. Ah, whatever...

If you start a fight, you're not a victim. That's what happened here - the Goys started things and then escalated them before Spaide shot them.

[Aktungbby]

That's not so. A verbal altercation is just that and does not necessitate an 'escalation of force' through physical altercation fists, rocks, clubs, etc, to the ultimate extreme of deadly force by lethal weaponry which can include kicking with a 'shod foot' ie: boot; up to axes, knives, automobiles (road rage at being 'flipped off') and firearms...In 'Merika at least, everyone has a
reasonable expectation of freedom of speach incl. insults w/o getting killed for it.

[3catcircus]

That's not so. A verbal altercation is just that and does not necessitate an 'escalation of force' through physical altercation fists, rocks, clubs, etc, to the ultimate extreme of deadly force by lethal weaponry which can include kicking with a 'shod foot' ie: boot; up to axes, knives, automobiles (road rage at being 'flipped off') and firearms...In 'Merika at least, everyone has a
reasonable expectation of freedom of speach incl. insults w/o getting killed for it.

I'm not saying Spaide didn't overreact, but the Goys should have known better. This is a Marcellus Wallace-Tony Rockyhara moment...

“If you step out of here, I’ll knock your a-- out,” James Goy told the suspected gunman, as seen in the video of the encounter obtained by The New York Post.

James Goy then threatened to make Spaide’s life a “living hell” and called him a “d--khead,” as heard on the recording.

“What?” Spaide replied. “F--k you, you f--king scum.”

Goy’s spouse, who is seen holding a shovel in the footage, then showered Spaide with a flurry of curse words.

“You’re the f--king scumbag,” Lisa Goy yelled to him. “You don’t know how to talk to somebody.”

James Goy then flipped Spaide off.

“That’s right...You’re a pu--y, pu--y, pu--y,” he is heard yelling.

In the footage of the incident, Spaide is then seen approaching Lisa Goy, who tells him “go ahead, go ahead.” Upon seeing his weapon, her husband tells him “put the gun down.”

Spaide then fired multiple rounds, striking both him and his wife, ABC News reported.

“Call the cops!” Lisa Goy is heard crying out, then yelling at Spaide, “You f--ker, you!”

Spaide then returned to his home, extracted a second, larger rifle, and returned to gun down Lisa Goy.

“You should have kept your f--king mouth [shut],” he told her before pulling the trigger."

The Goys, with these words, are not themselves reasonable people.

[Aktungbby]

^ Thanks for making my point entirely: “d--khead,” f--king scum.” f--king scumbag, pu--y, pu--y, pu--y,” (with attendant flipping off):k_confused: You f--ker, you! are all permissable verbal communications while not striking with a deadly snow shovel...presumably close at hand. Upon seeing his weapon, her husband tells him “put the gun down.” Literally a lawful command as the unlawful brandishing of the weapon is a felony offense and Mr Goy is essentially now acting lawfully with a citizen's arrest perogative: the verbal command to desist before the situation escalates to a deadly level and he beans the misanthropic asperger's adversary, Mr. Spade, in self defense against a perceived deadly threat with a snow shovel. The returning with another firearm after the initial infliction of felony deadly assault leaves no doubt as to where the real problem lies. NO IMHO 'bout it!

[3catcircus]

^ Thanks for making my point entirely: (with attendant flipping off):k_confused: are all permissable verbal communications while not striking with a deadly snow shovel...presumably close at hand. Literally a lawful command as the unlawful brandishing of the weapon is a felony offense and Mr Goy is essentially now acting lawfully with a citizen's arrest perogative: the verbal command to desist before the situation escalates to a deadly level and he beans the misanthropic asperger's adversary, Mr. Spade, in self defense against a perceived deadly threat with a snow shovel. The returning with another firearm after the initial infliction of felony deadly assault leaves no doubt as to where the real problem lies. NO IMHO 'bout it!


The couple involved appear to be the "butter don't melt in my mouth" types who would still be alive if they had been more street-smart and/or hadn't been garbage neighbors. Guy went into his house to get his gun - that's your cue to go home - not follow him bellowing invectives. It appears he first fired warning shots - they should have run. He goes back home to get a second gun, they should have been running home. Based upon the below (from the Pocono Record), I'd almost be inclined to say they possibly deserved it since they apparently had had arguments previously - they went out of their way to throw their snow in his yard - across the street from their yard - threw a tool at him, and kept verbally abusing him - even when they saw he had a gun in his hand. Their "he'll never shoot us even as we continue harangueing him" attitude and utter lack of self-awareness of their own safety is what got them killed.

"Officers found James and Lisa Goy dead in the street, and heard a gunshot from Spaide's home that authorities believe was from his self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Prosecutors said the Goys and Spaide had been involved in prior disputes, and that witness accounts and surveillance video showed the deadly encounter took place as Spaide was shoveling snow and the Goys were clearing their cars.

As the Goys cleared their parking spots, they pushed snow across the street and threw it onto Spaide's property, prosecutors said.

Spaide asked them to stop, leading to a heated exchange during which James Goy threw a tool he was using to clear snow from his car and approached his neighbor in the street, prosecutors said.

When James Goy cocked his fist, Spaide retreated into his house as the Goys continued yelling and cursing at him, according to prosecutors.

James Goy threatened Spaide and made obscene gestures at him before Spaide emerged from his house with a pistol.

Prosecutors said the Goys acknowledged Spaide holding a gun, but that they continued shouting names at him from the middle of the street.

The Goys did not react when Spaide initially opened fire, and both were eventually shot, prosecutors said.

After firing multiple rounds at short range, Spaide went into his house to get an AR-15-style rifle, which he used to shoot the injured Goys again, killing them, prosecutors said."

[Onkel Neal]

Victim blaming again. Ah, whatever...

I'm not blaming the two who got shot...but sometimes when you poke the bear, it eats you.

[GoldenRivet]

I'm not blaming the two who got shot...but sometimes when you poke the bear, it eats you.

I wont victim blam either - but this fued didnt start on the day of the shooting. I'm sure bad blood has been at a simmer with these two camps for a while, and it reached its boil on the day of the shooting.

Was the guy right to shoot them? for heaven's sake no

Was the couple right for antagonizing and instigating and nagging him? not at all

are certain groups right for calling this "another AR-15 killing" when it clearly was not that? Nope... and before the bodies have cooled off we all get to have another gun control debate.

if you ask me, both parties have a hand in this wrong. and say both could have handled it drastically better is an understatement.

however, things like this have happened forever. people havnt gotten worse, its just the world has gotten smaller and this sort of "bad news" is worldwide overnight

[3catcircus]

I wont victim blam either - but this fued didnt start on the day of the shooting. I'm sure bad blood has been at a simmer with these two camps for a while, and it reached its boil on the day of the shooting.

Was the guy right to shoot them? for heaven's sake no

Was the couple right for antagonizing and instigating and nagging him? not at all

are certain groups right for calling this "another AR-15 killing" when it clearly was not that? Nope... and before the bodies have cooled off we all get to have another gun control debate.

if you ask me, both parties have a hand in this wrong. and say both could have handled it drastically better is an understatement.

however, things like this have happened forever. people havnt gotten worse, its just the world has gotten smaller and this sort of "bad news" is worldwide overnight

I would ask the question - would this have happened in a society where *everyone* is potentially armed and where civility is more common? Is it true that an armed society is a polite society?

[GoldenRivet]

I would ask the question - would this have happened in a society where *everyone* is potentially armed and where civility is more common? Is it true that an armed society is a polite society?

Cane killed able with a rock

[3catcircus]

Cane killed able with a rock
But if Abel also had a rock...

[Aktungbby]

I would ask the question - would this have happened in a society where *everyone* is potentially armed and where civility is more common? Is it true that an armed society is a polite society?"Smile when you say that, Pa'dner" :O:

[3catcircus]

"Smile when you say that, Pa'dner" :O:

I never felt unsafe when I lived in SE Idaho - and I'd often see people walk into the drugstore, buy a gun, and walk out with it in hand 15 minutes later. Or all of the people walking around open-carry.

Compare that to Philly where they're a bunch of lawless maniacs and you have no idea who is armed, who is high, who is off their meds - or a combination of all three.

*Everywhere* I've lived that has permissive gun laws, I've never felt unsafe and the crime rate was low. Everywhere I've live with restrictive laws, the opposite occurred - or at least it felt that way.

[GoldenRivet]

But if Abel also had a rock...

I'm sure there were plenty of them laying around.

I conceal carry every day, everywhere i legally can.

People are insane in the world. They'll kill you over a parking space.

[AVGWarhawk]

That's why its called "snowball fight".

Someone brought a gun to the snowball fight.

[AVGWarhawk]

They'll kill you over a parking space.

True. In cities were people shovel a small spot for their car so they can park. They usually put a lawn chair or similar to hold the spot. Anyone moves the chair and parks....is fair game.....

[3catcircus]

True. In cities were people shovel a small spot for their car so they can park. They usually put a lawn chair or similar to hold the spot. Anyone moves the chair and parks....is fair game.....

"Your Honor, he needed killin' for taking my spot."

"You're free to go; bailiff release the defendant."

[Cybermat47]

The Goys shouldn’t be blamed for being shot.

They should be blamed for being antagonistic pieces of crap, though.

[bstanko6]

One of the biggest problems in the United States, is nobody takes responsibility for their actions. Of course those people should not have been shot.

But if you walk down an alleyway counting your hundreds of dollars you won at the casino, and four dudes walk toward you in that same alleyway with hoodies on, someone is about to be robbed!

We need to think before we speak, we need to think before we act.

[d@rk51d3]

One of the biggest problems in the United States, is nobody takes responsibility for their actions.

I think it's a global phenomenon.

[les green01]

i c&c even open carry depends what i'm doing where i been so forth sometimes if been target shooting i might have a 1847 walker can't c&c that one too easy we don't know could been a lot of stuff going on before this happen but if the guy call me what he did and running his mouth and he didn't have a weapon i would have fist fight him

[Dowly]

Someone mentioned warning shots, but it is important to note that there is a significant audio desync in the video. The first shots you hear are the shots you see a couple of seconds later aimed at the Goys.


The video seen in the article is also cut short. As he empties his pistol, he goes back to the garage (while the woman is screaming in agony, unsure if the man is still alive) and comes back to finish the job at point blank range with an "assault rifle" type weapon. "Should've kept your [bleeping] mouth shut!"