Destroyers unable to detect boat above 8x time compression?

[FeatsOfStrength]

I've been playing with options in SH3 Commander, I changed the base time compression for when near enemies up to x32 from x8 just to speed up the game a bit.

I've noticed however that this seems to have made enemy escorts completely unable to detect me.

I've done maybe 6 convoy attacks and even when enemy boats come near me I don't seem to hear any asdic pings and they drop no depth charges. I'm in 1942 so this is particularly strange as i'm used to getting nearly destroyed after each convoy attack.

Is this a known issue with time-compression or have I just been incredibly lucky? If so is there a limit outside the base game tc limits where you can still play and be detected by enemies?

Edit: I'll add this is when I'm submerged, they're perfectly capable of finding me on the surface with radar.

[blackswan40]

Hi FeatsOfStrength I never altered time compression when playing our Steel sharks GWX Campaign when heading to my patrol grid on surface at max time compression and if something came near to me it would drop to x32
wether it was a aircraft a single ship sighting or a escort or convoy.


Is this 1939-1940 time frame early war if so radar isnt in most escorts and the escorts ar'nt that good with green crews as the war progresses its a all new ball game when you run into a large convoy with sixty plus merchants
and 12-20 escorts also hunter killer groups patroling the shipping lanes
areas like the rockall banks where HX SC SL HG convoys converge on their final trudge to liverpool or belfast or Outbound Convoys OA OB OG.
Also when your leaving your channel coast base lorient st nazaire boardeaux
late 1941 onwards my advice would be once outside the harbour of the bases and you have enough depth under your keel 15-18 mtrs get to periscope depth quick because by 1942 them Jabos allied fighter bombers are like flys around a pot of jam in the bay of biscay or bay of dismay
when you get walloped.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10973


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10977


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10976

[John Pancoast]

I've been playing with options in SH3 Commander, I changed the base time compression for when near enemies up to x32 from x8 just to speed up the game a bit.

I've noticed however that this seems to have made enemy escorts completely unable to detect me.

I've done maybe 6 convoy attacks and even when enemy boats come near me I don't seem to hear any asdic pings and they drop no depth charges. I'm in 1942 so this is particularly strange as i'm used to getting nearly destroyed after each convoy attack.

Is this a known issue with time-compression or have I just been incredibly lucky? If so is there a limit outside the base game tc limits where you can still play and be detected by enemies?

Edit: I'll add this is when I'm submerged, they're perfectly capable of finding me on the surface with radar.

x32 shouldn't be a problem but you can try a lower number if desired. However, the escorts in <insert version here> aren't very good anyway at any stage of the war.
Either are the aircraft.

[John Pancoast]

Hi FeatsOfStrength I never altered time compression when playing our Steel sharks GWX Campaign when heading to my patrol grid on surface at max time compression and if something came near to me it would drop to x32
wether it was a aircraft a single ship sighting or a escort or convoy.


Is this 1939-1940 time frame early war if so radar isnt in most escorts and the escorts ar'nt that good with green crews as the war progresses its a all new ball game when you run into a large convoy with sixty plus merchants
and 12-20 escorts also hunter killer groups patroling the shipping lanes
areas like the rockall banks where HX SC SL HG convoys converge on their final trudge to liverpool or belfast or Outbound Convoys OA OB OG.
Also when your leaving your channel coast base lorient st nazaire boardeaux
late 1941 onwards my advice would be once outside the harbour of the bases and you have enough depth under your keel 15-18 mtrs get to periscope depth quick because by 1942 them Jabos allied fighter bombers are like flys around a pot of jam in the bay of biscay or bay of dismay
when you get walloped.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10973


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10977


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1246&pictureid=10976

Re the AOD manual pages, yes, but AOD escorts/convoys followed historical tactics, etc.
SH3's don't. :)

[FeatsOfStrength]

I think something must be off as a destroyer passed over me literally minutes after torpedoing a merchant in a convoy whilst I was only 30m below the water without silent running and it just kept going, not seeing me there. The in game date is December 1942 so I would have thought them more vigilant. Haven't had a single depth charge dropped on me this career and i'm on my 7th patrol.

[John Pancoast]

I think something must be off as a destroyer passed over me literally minutes after torpedoing a merchant in a convoy whilst I was only 30m below the water without silent running and it just kept going, not seeing me there. The in game date is December 1942 so I would have thought them more vigilant. Haven't had a single depth charge dropped on me this career and i'm on my 7th patrol.

Like I said, they're not very good. :) Your experience isn't unusual.

[John Pancoast]

There is a setting in the sim.cfg file that is easy to change that will give them better hydrophone ability/easier to find and keep you in contact.
They still won't react *before* an attack as well as they should (helps a little) but it helps after one.
If interested, let me know.

[Fifi]

There is a setting in the sim.cfg file that is easy to change that will give them better hydrophone ability/easier to find and keep you in contact.
They still won't react *before* an attack as well as they should (helps a little) but it helps after one.
If interested, let me know.

Always good to know...if you please?

[John Pancoast]

Always good to know...if you please?

In the "Hydrophone" section, called "Noise Factor". Scale goes from 1.0 (deaf) to 0.0 (hear you on the dark side of the moon :)). I.e., smaller number = more noise from the player.
For myself, I've found .10-.15 is about as low as I want to go. One can choose a single setting and always have that in place or use SH3 Commander to pick from a number of settings to pick from.
I use the Commander option to pick from either the "stock" setting of whatever sim.cfg file I'm using or from a number of lower settings.
I.e., NYGM's stock setting is .25. I have it set up so that there is a 60% chance of either .2, .15, or .1 being picked leaving a 40% chance that the stock setting gets picked.

[John Pancoast]

FeatsofStrength, what is your mod list anyway ?

[Professor M]

In the "Hydrophone" section, called "Noise Factor". Scale goes from 1.0 (deaf) to 0.0 (hear you on the dark side of the moon :)). I.e., smaller number = more noise from the player.
For myself, I've found .10-.15 is about as low as I want to go. One can choose a single setting and always have that in place or use SH3 Commander to pick from a number of settings to pick from.
I use the Commander option to pick from either the "stock" setting of whatever sim.cfg file I'm using or from a number of lower settings.
I.e., NYGM's stock setting is .25. I have it set up so that there is a 60% chance of either .2, .15, or .1 being picked leaving a 40% chance that the stock setting gets picked.


Please walk me through how you did this. I have opened SH3 Commander and can't see a way to do what you are describing.


When you get time, of course.


Cheers.

[John Pancoast]

Please walk me through how you did this. I have opened SH3 Commander and can't see a way to do what you are describing.


When you get time, of course.


Cheers.

Are you wanting to just change the sim.cfg file or are you wanting to also have the SH3 Commander randomization too ?
Knowing that will help me answer your question.

[Professor M]

Good evening from Blighty.


Thanks for the speedy reply, John.



I use jsgme for most mods and Commander to set time in base and time compression etc. I fancy using Commander to 'tweak' the sensitivity of the sonar occasionally but would rather not alter the sim.cfg file directly. In the same way that jsgme can be used to make changes to the basic.cfg file without having to make alterations to the basic.cfg file directly. Assuming that I have understood what you are suggesting, being able to tweak via Commander will do this, no?


I will not pick this up before tomorrow pm GMT.


Cheers for now.


Prof'

[John Pancoast]

Good evening from Blighty.


Thanks for the speedy reply, John.



I use jsgme for most mods and Commander to set time in base and time compression etc. I fancy using Commander to 'tweak' the sensitivity of the sonar occasionally but would rather not alter the sim.cfg file directly. In the same way that jsgme can be used to make changes to the basic.cfg file without having to make alterations to the basic.cfg file directly. Assuming that I have understood what you are suggesting, being able to tweak via Commander will do this, no?


I will not pick this up before tomorrow pm GMT.


Cheers for now.


Prof'


Ok, what you want to work with is the Randomized Events.cfg file found in path SH3 Commander\cfg.
You add whatever you want to happen to this file. I.e., here is my entry for the noise level setting of the GWX sim.cfg file. "Stock" GWX setting for this aspect is 0.5:


;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg]
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort.
ChooseFrom=5
RndMidPat=1

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


***See this section repeated below for explanation of various parts of it.***



;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL < - this is just the title of the Randomized events section.
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg] < - this is the path to the file you want to work with.
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort. < - this is just a comment line explaining what is being done.
ChooseFrom=5 < - this tells Commander to choose from one of five entries; the three I added below and then the "stock" GWX value for the other two choices. Since the last two choices are just using the "stock" GWX value there is no need to list them here; they're already listed in the sim.cfg file, i.e. Only need to add values NOT in the file you're working with.
Since the setting here is 5, Commander chooses from 5 possibilities. Since I added three other options, that means there is a 60% chance of Commander using ONE of the lines below (3 divided by 5) and a 40% chance it used the "stock" GWX value (2 divided by 5, 100% - 60%, etc.) If say i.e., this number was 15 vs. 5, then there would be a 20% chance of one of the three values below being chosen; 3 is 1/5 of 15 = 20%. You can use whatever value you want.
RndMidPat=1< - this tells Commander to choose a value each time the game starts. So if you're on patrol, save and exit, the next time you start the game it chooses a value again. It may be the same, may be not. Without this option, upon restarting Commander would always just use the "stock" value of 0.5

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4 < - this line and the next two lines are the changed values I want to use for the section "Hydrophone" line "Noise factor" in the sim.cfg file.

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


Hope this helps/makes sense. Much of what I wrote is explained at the top of the Randomized events file.
Let me know of any questions you have.

[Fifi]

Ok, what you want to work with is the Randomized Events.cfg file found in path SH3 Commander\cfg.
You add whatever you want to happen to this file. I.e., here is my entry for the noise level setting of the GWX sim.cfg file. "Stock" GWX setting for this aspect is 0.5:


;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg]
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort.
ChooseFrom=5
RndMidPat=1

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


***See this section repeated below for explanation of various parts of it.***



;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL < - this is just the title of the Randomized events section.
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg] < - this is the path to the file you want to work with.
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort. < - this is just a comment line explaining what is being done.
ChooseFrom=5 < - this tells Commander to choose from one of five entries; the three I added below and then the "stock" GWX value for the other two choices. Since the last two choices are just using the "stock" GWX value there is no need to list them here; they're already listed in the sim.cfg file, i.e. Only need to add values NOT in the file you're working with.
Since the setting here is 5, Commander chooses from 5 possibilities. Since I added three other options, that means there is a 60% chance of Commander using ONE of the lines below (3 divided by 5) and a 40% chance it used the "stock" GWX value (2 divided by 5, 100% - 60%, etc.) If say i.e., this number was 15 vs. 5, then there would be a 20% chance of one of the three values below being chosen; 3 is 1/5 of 15 = 20%. You can use whatever value you want.
RndMidPat=1< - this tells Commander to choose a value each time the game starts. So if you're on patrol, save and exit, the next time you start the game it chooses a value again. It may be the same, may be not. Without this option, upon restarting Commander would always just use the "stock" value of 0.5

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4 < - this line and the next two lines are the changed values I want to use for the section "Hydrophone" line "Noise factor" in the sim.cfg file.

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


Hope this helps/makes sense. Much of what I wrote is explained at the top of the Randomized events file.
Let me know of any questions you have.

You also could use Cmdr Date folder feature to avoid the random matter...so at a certain date ingame, escorts could hear you better...by making new SIM.cfg file with desired value, and dropping it in any date you want?

[Professor M]

;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg]
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort.
ChooseFrom=5
RndMidPat=1

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2





Thanks for the reply and the detailed description of how to make the mod and why it works.



If I understand you correctly, I just copy and paste the above into the 'Randomised Events' file and Commander selects a value at random (each time the game is started) during the whole war. If so, does it take into account improvements in the technology over time/with model upgrades to ships' hydrophone?



If not, Fifi's suggestion sounds interesting. though I have not dipped into the date folders as yet, it seems simple enough.

[Professor M]

You also could use Cmdr Date folder feature to avoid the random matter...so at a certain date ingame, escorts could hear you better...by making new SIM.cfg file with desired value, and dropping it in any date you want?

Thanks, Fifi, this sounds interesting. if you have used this feature, would you mind explaining the folder/file format. In: Silent Hunter III/SH3 Commander/Random I see 5 folders 0-4 (and a note saying that more can be added). Does one just rename the numbered folder with the date (that the changes take place) or the 'Date' folder within the numbered folder, if that makes sense?

[Fifi]

Thanks, Fifi, this sounds interesting. if you have used this feature, would you mind explaining the folder/file format. In: Silent Hunter III/SH3 Commander/Random I see 5 folders 0-4 (and a note saying that more can be added). Does one just rename the numbered folder with the date (that the changes take place) or the 'Date' folder within the numbered folder, if that makes sense?

No, if you open in Cmdr the Date folder, you will find inside many folder with dates as names.
You can select one existing, or create new one with new date (respecting dates writing)
Inside, you can put your new SIM.cfg file, again respecting the correct path to it.
(Ie 19430103/data/Cfg/your new sim file)
When you will reach the date ingame, your Cmdr will load the new SIM file.

Hope you understand what i try to explain :)

On side note, you can put any game file modified in the dates folder!
Not only SIM file, but new skins, new radio tracks etc...so it will appear at certain dates of your choice.

[Professor M]

Yes, Fifi, I understand. I will give that a go. That way I can take John's suggestions about sensitivity and noise factor and increase the detection ability as time progresses.



I also like the random suggestion because not all operators were the same and the equipment varied with model and calibration etc.


Thank you both for your help on this. Now I have to try and work out what levels are correct and dates to introduce them.

[John Pancoast]

You also could use Cmdr Date folder feature to avoid the random matter...so at a certain date ingame, escorts could hear you better...by making new SIM.cfg file with desired value, and dropping it in any date you want?

Yes but the game/megamods already do that (outside of Commander) to reflect the newer/better historical equipment.
I'm just trying to make the escorts less dumb as bricks per patrol via the above while still having an unknown ability factor to it via the range of values to pick from.
In general, the Randomization feature is much more powerful/provides more options than the Date option.

[John Pancoast]

Thanks for the reply and the detailed description of how to make the mod and why it works.



If I understand you correctly, I just copy and paste the above into the 'Randomised Events' file and Commander selects a value at random (each time the game is started) during the whole war. If so, does it take into account improvements in the technology over time/with model upgrades to ships' hydrophone?



If not, Fifi's suggestion sounds interesting. though I have not dipped into the date folders as yet, it seems simple enough.

Correct; just copy/paste into the RE file and also correct it is accessed each time the game is started. Be sure to number the sections in Commander correctly otherwise they won't be accessed.
I.e., note the "0" in the section heading: [0:data\cfg\sim.cfg]. These must be in order so the next section would have to be changed to 1, the next would be 2, etc.
This only needs to be done until the [Malx] sections are reached as they are a different function of the file.
Speaking of which, unless your install includes modified files for the sabotage and malfunction parts of this file, the Commander sabotage & malfunction option will not work correctly and could cause problems as the hex locations in the sabotage & malfunction sections included with Commander are for 1.4b only.
Many mods/megamods change the hex values hence the reason some provide updated Commander Randomized events files.

Yes to the equipment question; that is handled separately by the game outside of Commander.

[John Pancoast]

Yes, Fifi, I understand. I will give that a go. That way I can take John's suggestions about sensitivity and noise factor and increase the detection ability as time progresses.



I also like the random suggestion because not all operators were the same and the equipment varied with model and calibration etc.


Thank you both for your help on this. Now I have to try and work out what levels are correct and dates to introduce them.

Exactly. :up:

[Fifi]

Ok, what you want to work with is the Randomized Events.cfg file found in path SH3 Commander\cfg.
You add whatever you want to happen to this file. I.e., here is my entry for the noise level setting of the GWX sim.cfg file. "Stock" GWX setting for this aspect is 0.5:


;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg]
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort.
ChooseFrom=5
RndMidPat=1

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


***See this section repeated below for explanation of various parts of it.***



;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------RANDOMIZED HYDROPHONE NOISE LEVEL < - this is just the title of the Randomized events section.
[0:data\cfg\sim.cfg] < - this is the path to the file you want to work with.
;lower number equals more noise can be heard by the escort. < - this is just a comment line explaining what is being done.
ChooseFrom=5 < - this tells Commander to choose from one of five entries; the three I added below and then the "stock" GWX value for the other two choices. Since the last two choices are just using the "stock" GWX value there is no need to list them here; they're already listed in the sim.cfg file, i.e. Only need to add values NOT in the file you're working with.
Since the setting here is 5, Commander chooses from 5 possibilities. Since I added three other options, that means there is a 60% chance of Commander using ONE of the lines below (3 divided by 5) and a 40% chance it used the "stock" GWX value (2 divided by 5, 100% - 60%, etc.) If say i.e., this number was 15 vs. 5, then there would be a 20% chance of one of the three values below being chosen; 3 is 1/5 of 15 = 20%. You can use whatever value you want.
RndMidPat=1< - this tells Commander to choose a value each time the game starts. So if you're on patrol, save and exit, the next time you start the game it chooses a value again. It may be the same, may be not. Without this option, upon restarting Commander would always just use the "stock" value of 0.5

0_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.4 < - this line and the next two lines are the changed values I want to use for the section "Hydrophone" line "Noise factor" in the sim.cfg file.

1_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.3

2_Hydrophone|Noise factor=0.2


Hope this helps/makes sense. Much of what I wrote is explained at the top of the Randomized events file.
Let me know of any questions you have.

That is a very good find John :up:
I’m adding it to both my Cmdr of Ccom & LSH3 :yep:

[John Pancoast]

That is a very good find John :up:
I’m adding it to both my Cmdr of Ccom & LSH3 :yep:

I'm just doing my version of hard RE file work originally done by others, i.e., Hemisent. :) He gets the credit for all that other work in the RE file which gave me the idea.
It'd be even better if these values could change on the fly while in-patrol but thats not the case and what Commander does allow is still outstanding.
One can randomize/change basically anything with this file.
But thanks FiFi !