View Full Version : The Swarm - or not The Swarm?
Skybird
11-12-20, 07:59 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buqvasp1rr/orcas-spain-portugal
Fascinating.
Boy are those fish messing with the wrong species....
Yes, I have over the years watch them from Madeira.... actually really close to shore sometimes, also in a boat they're huge in size so to play with them is "no duck walk".
Jimbuna
11-13-20, 04:45 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buqvasp1rr/orcas-spain-portugal
Fascinating.
Yes, most fascinating :yep:
Certainly beats the dolphins I swam alongside in Mexico :)
Aktungbby
11-13-20, 10:10 AM
^ U certainly wouldn't want one of them 'nibblin' yer rudder on a romantic honeymoon junket to ol' Mexíco!:O: but It could be worse! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhriqtuRYyw
Jimbuna
11-13-20, 01:04 PM
To be totally honest I wasn't 100% comfortable even in a controlled environment but seeing a stingray come within two feet of me almost totally freaked me out.
Catfish
11-13-20, 01:22 PM
Orcas are predators that usually ram ice sheets to roll them over and ditch seals and penguins, to then eat them. They communicate and work together, this has been observed for a long time.
Attacks on sailing boats also have been reported already in the 1960ies, it is not clear what causes them though.
It seems to be best to stop the engine, lower sails and behave as silent as possible. But the plastic yacht's hulls are usually not strong enough to withstand a dedicated attack, this is especially true for all the glued/laminated-in outboard locks, the rudder's shaft and the propshaft's stern tube.
If the earth or its ecosystem was intelligent and able to execute counteraction against anything damaging it, it probably would do something against mankind, just like an immunosystem's reaction.
Like Mars to Earth: "You have a disease called mankind, but tha'll soon get away"
But up to what happened until now, there is no conscient "answer" but often just a result of man's own action, like storms due to climate change, some flooding, land slides and the like.
A dedicated action by animals or a conscious earth ecosystem is - other than shown in this Pandora flick - not something to worry about i think :03:
skidman
11-13-20, 05:55 PM
Agreed, still the idea has inspired the originators of the Gaia hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis) and recently has become popular in some more bizarre splinter groups within the anti-covid-lockdown protesters.
There are two funny aspects to this:
1.) Somehow we can not accept the indications suggesting we will lose the game of evolution to cyanobacteria (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891584918324845) or cockroaches (https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/scientists-figure-out-the-origin-of-cockroaches-1.5804114). Evolution measures success in number of generations / endurance. Yep, we are doomed. Let's blame the planet.
2.) The Gaia hypothesis tries to somehow add a ethical perspective to the global ecosystem and even the inanimate spheres of the planet. And before we start speculating about who gives the right commands to volcanos and tectonic plates, and before we start separating living species into good and evil let's hear a voice of reason. Let's get back to Dawkins' "The selfish Gene":
"I shall argue that the fundamental unit of selection, and therefore of self-interest, is not the species, nor the group, nor even, strictly, the individual. It is the gene, the unit of heredity."
(Richard Dawkins)
It seems to be best to stop the engine, lower sails and behave as silent as possible. But the plastic yacht's hulls are usually not strong enough to withstand a dedicated attack, this is especially true for all the glued/laminated-in outboard locks, the rudder's shaft and the propshaft's stern tube.
Every species has a right to defend itself, including humans. If my boat with my family in it were subjected to such an attack those beasties are going to end up with a bunch of extra blow holes long before they put a hole in my hull or rip off the rudder.
Catfish
11-14-20, 07:10 AM
I would do what promises the best outcome for my family.
They do not surface during an attack, and shooting at a 7-meter 6-ton aggressive predator (or usually 3-6 hunting together) swimming submerged at up to 30 knots speed, from a moving deck into a meter or more below water surface will not have much effect, until you bring some serious artillery.
...until you bring some serious artillery.
That's why God invented the .50cal,... and hand grenades.
Catfish
11-14-20, 11:46 AM
That's why God invented the .50cal,... and hand grenades.Lol ok, but i still think the effect will be much less, in water. At that speed the bullet would react like hitting concrete. Grenades, maybe. Or depth charges :D
Lol ok, but i still think the effect will be much less, in water. At that speed the bullet would react like hitting concrete. Grenades, maybe. Or depth charges :D
Then how about some surplus sonar gear as a less than lethal option?
"Give me a ping Vasilli, one ping only please."
That'd sure ring Shamus bell!
Well, the density of water is significantly higher so no "large" amounts are needed to stun or put a human or any animal species in a coma-closing state.
Skybird
11-14-20, 06:19 PM
I thi8nk the more we vaprise functioanl natural habitats and animals populations both prey and predator, the more animals have no other choice then to close onto human settlements and living areas, plus lifestock. We saee it on land happenign everywhere. Species that usually kept away, are driven by hunger not towns and city, farms and lifestock perimeters.
WE. ARE. TOO. MANY.
8 billion, an counting, for hell's sake, that is 6-7 billion too many. Sustainable ressource management and environmental pollution prevention and biological farming so many two-legged virusses crawling around is impossible. Too many is too many.
Wondering is it because we are way to many OR
Is it because we don't know how to behave as guest in the house of the Earth ?
Markus
Wondering is it because we are way to many OR
Is it because we don't know how to behave as guest in the house of the Earth ?
Markus
We're not guests.
We're as much a part of this earth as any other living being or inanimate object. As for how to behave I think the more people there is the more difficult it is for us to behave "correctly".
We have the technology and the infrastructure to support a much higher population than ever before but if they fail to keep pace with our ever increasing numbers the result will be catastrophic. Maybe even enough to destroy the capabilities we have now. Even if they can be successfully defended from the hordes of starving people crops are not much use if they can't be distributed because the countryside is in chaos. I'm guessing that the last crop man grows before a mass starvation event that severely reduces our numbers to a more sustainable level would either rot on the vine or be destroyed fighting over it but not much of it will be eaten.
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