A real war is being mulled inside the EU and NATO - and most do not seem to care

[Skybird]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.andreas-unterberger.at%2F2020%2F08%2Fkriegsgefahr-fr-europa%2F


Watching this with with hawk eyes since long. There is lots of potential for a huge violent eruption in this, that will send shockwaves not just to the mediterranean region, but beyond.


And Germany once again seems to stand on the wrong side. :wah:

[Jimbuna]

A double edged sword indeed.

I don't see the EU getting involved militarily but if it comes to that, it could potentially be more disastrous for the NATO alliance.

[Skybird]

There are certainyl conclusions to be drawn abiout Merkel'S foeign policy. Over here it is a sometimes raised criticism about her that she has no vision and far sight, only manages situations from one day to the next, basing on grounds that she did nothing to lay out, only bedbnefits of for ther own opportunistic day-to-day managing of things. And that holds a lot of truth. She is a typical aparatschik, imo, and therefore a very helpless victim for political palyers with longterm strageies like China, or Turkey - these actor'S doings simply go beyond her radar horizon. Her loyalty to the EU is purely ideology-founded and holds no substance beyind that.



This basic trait of hers explains also a lot of those qualities she is missing. I have always seen her as hopelessly overestimated. She might have been a good hotel manager and good in delaign with the guests. But she would never have become that somebody founding and planning and constructing the hotel in the first. Too much of just a Verwaltungsangstellte (government employee, administrative officer)in her, with a Beamtenmentalität (=bureaucratic mentality?). A problem that is very widespread in Germany and explains also much of the general German Anspruchshaltung (=entitlement mentality?) n very many people.



She knows the rule sof the game. But she is incapable tot hink beyond them or beyond the game. She only opportunistically poses after having watched the plebs' mouths.

[mapuc]

a war between Greece and Turkey seems inevitable

After the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis,
has announced that the territorial waters of the Greeks will be expanded
from 11 to 22 kilometers along the west coast of the country

And according to Swedish news

On Friday night, Ankara issued a notice that military exercises will be held northwest of Cyprus from Saturday 29/8 through 11/9.

Markus

[Grumpy Pete]

To say the situation is precarious would be a gross understatement. The fact that Turkey is now facing a critical economic crisis only serves to ratchet tensions tighter. Faced with his current internal problems, Erdogan may believe military options could actually stabilize his control with a wavering populace. Dangerous men become doubly dangerous when their power is threatened.


I actually think he is seeking to rebuild the Ottoman Empire by drawing in the support of other Arab nations. If "Western" powers could be blamed for staring a conflict with Turkey it might well be surprising who would support Erdogan--as players line up for the spoils. Militarily Turkey is very strong. Getting support from just a few key Arab nations could upset the balance enough that the EU and even the US would not want to get involved. With problems Trump faces at home, he would be reluctant to engage in any conflict let alone one that involves another NATO country. The current political climate in the US could prevent him from taking action.


Russian involvement would probably be limited to diplomacy. Putin probably would stand to gain more by letting things happen and then trying to tap into potential rewards at the end of any conflict. His pipelines in the North would become much more valuable. Putin is pragmatic. He'll do what he thinks is more profitable with the least cost to Russia.


If the only countries willing to stand up to Turkey are France, Greece, probably Egypt and handful of other lesser powers, Erdogan would be tough to stop. His only real military weakness might be his navy. And if he really wants the US to stay out of it, a logical way to insure that is to kick off before the November elections in the US.


I really hope I'm wrong but there are just too many countries saber rattling right now. All it needs is one incident to light off the powder keg.

[Skybird]

The Ottoman rule was quite brutal and the Arabs have not forgotten that, Erdioghans bet to win over their minds and hearts by siding with the Palestinian Arabs probbaly never had a real chance, and his attempt to make Turkey the new Islamic lead nation also has no realistic chance for that reason. With the UAE now also opening relations with Israel an showing the ever self-corrupt Palestinian arabs the stinking middle finger, the signals show where Erdoghans calculation is heading - nowehere. However the rssources int he Eastern Med are real and Turkey wants them, also, the border drawing in the Eastern med with all the tiny Greek islands that close to the Turkish mainland are indeed a bit insane and a never resting source of quarrel and anger. Turkey's enaggement in syria and Libya have to be seen as supportive efforts for military action around Cyprus, where claism are made by the eU, Israel, Malto, Egypt, Greece, Turkey. The Turkish role in cyprus always was imo that of the bad boy, the claims they made over and on cyprus imo always were criminal/illegal and gorunded exclsuively on thge use of military power.



The eU still thinks Erdoghan bluffes. I think they are wrong, Erdioghan is very well willing to use military force and wage war there.



In a way it would be a relief because then even the kost sleepy hesitent blokehead at NATO finally should relaise that Turkey can no longer be held as a NATO "member" whcih already now they are not anymore, but they are a poisonous wound in NATO's southern flank, and speak with split tongues. The amy conflcits and diliokatic rifts between Turkey and Washington in recent years, speak volumes. One of Merkel's biggets failures, if not potlicla crimes, was to endlessly lead Germany and Eope into deeper depenbdency from Turkey'S good will regarduing mass migration, and endlessly avpiding Turksih EU membership as a no go.



I spae myself formmentioning oen again the many massive interference sof the Turksih stae in the inner poltics of Germany.



The Turkish land army is strong. The Greek land army has many tanks, but years ago it was reported they are hopelessly undersupplied in ammuntiion, especially tank ammunition.Many tanks back then - had NONE assigned. I do not know about their air forces, who they would compare. The Turkish fleet probabaly is the weakest part of the Turkish military. In how far the financial turmoils of the past 15 years have hampered the readiness of Greek forces, I also do not know. That Turkey bought very modern Russian air defences recently shows that they have eyed this confrontation since longer time. It was never abiout defences agaunst Syria LOL. Syria has more reason to want to defend against Turkey, because Turkey is the attacker in their fighting.



At home Erdoghan is under pressure. And triggering distraction by launching an external war is a recipe that many autocrats and dictators before him already have tried.


The Wets realyl has to learn to not see Turkey as an ally. It is not, and already since a long time. They play foul on us. With Erdoghan's arrival, everything changed. Attatürk's legacy is dead. Since many years already.

[JU_88]

Agree with Jim, Nato and EU is all bark and no bite these days, they'll express some condemnation, threaten fines or sanctions, but ultimatley if it kicks off they will do what they always do: squabble about it and then do nothing. The Eu and Nato would be more likley allow them selves to collapes than decisivley picking sides in that battle. Both are very weak.
the US won't care and as they are too tied up with national / internal problems at present.
Russia will probably sit back and watch for any opportunity or threat to Russian interests. but will other wise remain quiet and make what preparations they need to.

[Mr Quatro]

I couldn't find a thread about Turkish problems with the Kurds so here's the start of a real war brewing right under our noses.

I point to this article for it's truth that Turkey is on the path to destruction, plus with a National Election coming up for President Trump we will be caught in the middle of a Kurdish oil field stand off.

Remember how the democrats cried last year "Oh we should defend out Kurdish friends for helping us win the Iraq war."

So what would Biden say if war should break out over a Kurdish/Turkey/Syrian/Russian/USA conflict before the election?

Yes, I say war drums are beating that could include US armed forces caught in the middle against Russian armed forces protecting Syria and supposedly friends with Turkey and on top of that the Kurds have been seen in recent days conferring with Russia for assistance.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/one-way-kurdish-insurgency-could-lead-collapse-turkey-168609

As Turkey’s economy teeters, Erdoğan has become increasingly belligerent toward his neighbors. Bombing Iraq—especially the largely Yazidi Sinjar area—has become a frequent occurrence. Turkey airlifted Islamic State veterans to Libya and has violated Libya’s arms embargo multiple times. Turkey justified its invasion of northern and eastern Syria as creating a safe-haven but, in reality, it has instead become a zone for anti-Kurdish ethnic cleansing.

Now Erdoğan is threatening Greece. “When the moment for a decision comes, and I say this clearly, those who stand against Turkey at the expense of jeopardizing the security and prosperity of its citizens, have to pay a heavy price,” Erdoğan said on September 7. Mesut Hakkı Caşın, a close Erdoğan advisor, threatened, “Our pilots will soon shoot down five or six of them [Greek warplanes] and we will enter into a war.” He suggested Turks would then bayonet the pilots.

[mapuc]

I knew that some of my friends had started threads about this.

Here's one of them

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=246496

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

I knew that some of my friends had started threads about this.

Here's one of them

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=246496

Markus

I didn't know this had been a topic before ... so now what?

Merge or wait for the explosion of seed thoughts to manifest? :o

[mapuc]

I didn't know this had been a topic before ... so now what?

Merge or wait for the explosion of seed thoughts to manifest? :o

I hope they will come to they sense and sit down and find a solution.
If a war comes between Turkey and Greece

EU...they will try to sit on two chair.

NATO...Don't know how they will react, when two members are at war against each other-Maybe others can give a more detailed input.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[Jimbuna]

Turkey may well be flexing her muscles in more than one theatre of operations.

Armenia says one of its fighter jets was shot down by a Turkish jet, in a major escalation in the conflict over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.
The Armenian foreign ministry said the pilot of the Soviet-made SU-25 died after being hit by the Turkish F-16 in Armenian air space.
Turkey, which is backing Azerbaijan in the conflict, has denied the claim.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54345622

[mapuc]

What is Turkey up to ??

Markus

[Rockstar]

My thoughts are Erdogan's rhetoric is geared towards strengthening his political position at home and in the eyes of his regional allies. He may also be sabre rattling hoping the E.U. will come to the negotiating table where he may want to try and persuade them to open the border again to the refugees piling up in Turkey.

As for threats of war and jihad its nothing new, he's been talking that smack for a few years now.

https://www.ntv.com.tr/turkiye/haddini-asanlari-ikaz-ediyoruz,CCs4mAxfFkuxQ8wPZXUGfQ

[mapuc]

My thoughts are Erdogan's rhetoric is geared towards strengthening his political position at home and in the eyes of his regional allies. He may also be sabre rattling hoping the E.U. will come to the negotiating table where he may want to try and persuade them to open the border again to the refugees piling up in Turkey.

As for threats of war its nothing new, he's been talking that smack for a few years now.

https://www.ntv.com.tr/turkiye/haddini-asanlari-ikaz-ediyoruz,CCs4mAxfFkuxQ8wPZXUGfQ

Reading stuff like A Turkish F-16 have shot down an Armenian fighter jet is in my opinion a huge escalation of this long lived conflict between these to countries.

That's why I asked what is Turkey up to
They may very well end in a war with Russia

Markus

[Skybird]

Erdoghan
- goes after the CHRISTIAN Armenians, a Turkish arch-enemy now (Azerbaijhan is Muslim)

- settles a score regarding parliaments in the West calling the Turkish genocide of Armenians actually a genocide,
- sends a message to the EU, NATO and France over his military engagement over the gas and oil fields near Cycprus
- wants to boost his claim for being seen as the regional leading power,
- wants to intimidate Greece,
- wants Putin to meet him on same eye level,
- wants to rally the masses at home around him while the Turkish currency crash-dives and the economic crisis turns worse,
- wants to show he is still there after Israel made peace deals with two Arab countries and can hope for sign more such deals.


What the EU leaders completely underestimate is that Erdoghan'S Turkey is both willing and capable to engage in a large scale war over Cyprus. Everybody implies he is bludding to get cocnessions. I say: no, he is not bluffing at all.



Turkey must be kicked out of NATO. Already ten years ago at the latest.

[Rockstar]

Reading stuff like A Turkish F-16 have shot down an Armenian fighter jet is in my opinion a huge escalation of this long lived conflict between these to countries.

That's why I asked what is Turkey up to
They may very well end in a war with Russia

Markus


That may be a possibility. But for years its known western alliances have been very careful not to publicly condemn Erdogan for support of Azeris and the Armenian genocide. I think dismantling Putin's reign is more important to NATO. Turkey might be able to help with that if it could force Putin into scaling up defenses and sending more troops into a potentially very unpopular war trying to defend the Armenians.

As for the Greece thing I still think its Turkey just sabre rattling. Erdogan wants something next time he goes to the negotiating table. I also think Merkel and Erdogan are working closer together than people think. Brits know this and they bolted from the E.U. France knows this when Macron spoke out against Turkey over Greece. Merkel on the other hand not wanting to disturb her relationship with Recep says little.

Macron needs to watch his back. Ever since Merkel has come to power in Germany other European leaders dont get to see a second term as president. Hell, some didnt even get to finish their first one. Pretty soon its just gonna be her and Erdogan.

[Catfish]

Armenian and turkish hostilities have a long history, but it always was about Turkey who wanted to kill all Armenians at a time they did not have an own state to live in. This was internationally condemned as genocide, something Turkey will not admit until today.

If you want to read something about the beginnings and the attempted genocide read "The fourty days of Musa dagh" (Musa Dagh is the mountain Moses allegedly climbed, in the bible).

With Kemal Atatuerk Turkey changed from the muslim attitude to a more secular state after WW1, but all this has been destroyed by Erdoghan. And most Turks love what he does, at least the big-mouth nationalists.

[Jimbuna]

I know a few Turks and they assure me he is not as popular with the Turkish people as he would have everyone believe.

Voting irregularities are common place.

[Skybird]

It depends on which Turks you ask, Jim. If you ask those living in Istanbul and the tourist ressorts, the few big cities depending on exchange with the Europeans, you get the answer you have gotten. But leave the urban areas and go into the rural places where the vast majority of Turks live, and you find that the overwhelming majority of them is arch-ultraconservative and ultra orthodox. And here the AKP rules, and in many such places practically unchallenged. The majority of Turks, the clear majority, is pro-AKP, still. They have all been ultra conservative there through the Kemlist decades. Islamic orthodoxy and nationalism just slept. They never were "away". Erdoghan did not reinject them. He only woke them up again.


Turks in Germany tick by the rule of thumb that the younger generation is more Islamic conservative and nationalistic than their parent generation. The Turkish parallel society is said to be deeply split between pro and anti Erdoghan. Many speak not out becasue they fear the long arm of the Turkish secret service. In Austria they are currently debating on the fact that Turkish agencies conduct huge operations inside Austria to hijack and assassinate critics.

[Jimbuna]

^ Yes, I appreciate that and readily admit it is probably close to the truth but I've also been told that prior to elections, lorries packed with washing machines and fridges etc, are often seen visiting villages etc. where the poor are 'gifted' appliances for their support and votes.

I'd presume in NK a vote could probably be bought for a few grains of rice (that's if voting ever actually takes place).

[mapuc]

In the news earlier today, they talked about some upcoming meeting among the leaders in EU.

On the program was the plan for a sanction against Belarus.
It's not 100 % agreement...Cyprus has given an ultimatum..
They will only vote for a sanction against Belarus, if the others agree on impose sanction or similar against Turkey.

The problem, as the Danish journalist said, is that Cyprus has a valid case.

The way he said it, made me wonder if
The Turks really care...seems like they drill for gas where it almost suits them.

Edit-Forgot something important.
Beside this, this journalist also, said
EU fear what Turkey may do, if EU should impose sanction against Turkey and Turkey has some good card on their hands...immigrants...millions of them. Leaders in EU fear an invasion.

End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

Tureky now shamelessly open fight sin the new Kaukasus war, they have transported thousands of Syrian mercenaries to Armenia and send them to battle there. Villages in Armenia once again get haunted by Osmanic imperiaism. Turkish proxies started to enforce Sharia rule by threat of weapons like the Tlaibvan once did - and will do again - in Afghanistan.


Thank God there is the EU. It raised an impertinently errected pointing finger and told Erdoghan on a recent summit that if he does not behave nice the EU will consider an angry reaction.


Germany prevented - ONCE AGAIN - a more robust reply. Instead, the German EU presidency works for increasing the EU dependecny on Erdoghan'S good will.



-----


After WWII, the motto in Germany was and still is: "Nie wieder." (Never again). I always was alienated by this, becasue if the germans would want to penance for the sins of their forefather s -. wouldn'T it be more logical to then act by a motto of "never again for the wrong and criminal and inhumane causes?" Shoudn't they want to supüport, aid and help the focres standing for what is right, humane, and free, insatea dof just watching it going down, referring to their choosen mnotto of that they never want to have anythign to do with wars int he world again? This way, they allow the evil repeating itself.


It is unclear whos tarted the recent round nt he conflict for Nagorni-Karabach, but fact is that Nagornia Karabach is a steronghold of Armenian

Christains that are surrounded and unde rpressure by hostile Muslims all around them. That the Armenians with their special experience with the Turks have a problem with just letting these their people down, is absolutely understandable, if one knows historxy a bit.



That th EU just watches while the (neo-) Osmans once again kill the Armenians and try to subjugate them to Islam, is not to be understood or excused at all, under no circumstances.



I hope Russia does not let them down, but I have my doubts. The Russians seem to stay out of it, although they claim to support Armenia (and the US supports Muslim Azerbaijan, which holds plenty of ressources and is friendly to "NATO member" :haha: Turkey.



Why is it that contemporary Europe always sides up with those who fight the Western heritage, and mocks, fights against and criticises those who stand up for the Western cultural heritage...? Its disgusting, and shameful.

[mapuc]

Mr Erdogan has also his eyes on Jerusalem, Israel.

One of my friends posted this link on his wall

“In this city that we had to leave in tears during the First World War, it is still possible to come across traces of the Ottoman resistance. So Jerusalem is our city, a city from us,”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-is-our-city-turkeys-erdogan-declares/

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Mr Erdogan has also his eyes on Jerusalem, Israel.

One of my friends posted this link on his wall



https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-is-our-city-turkeys-erdogan-declares/

Markus

I think Israel are well enough equipped to stop that happening.

[mapuc]

I think Israel are well enough equipped to stop that happening.

They have indeed.

I couldn't help thinking on some of Skybird's comment on Turkey, Erdogan and the ottoman empire, when I read the link posted in my last post.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Just going on nuclear capability alone it would be potentially suicidal for any non nuclear capable nation to attack one that had nuclear capability.

[Dmitry Markov]

Sultan has clearly gave us a tricky puzzle to solve. Armenia is our ally, and culturally symathies of most ethnical russians would be on the armenian side and since most population in Karabah are armenians - on the side of PRK. Even more because it was Azerbaijan side who started the last advance. But Russia is more than only ethnical russians - here are armenians and azerbaijans, tatars etc who may have different feelings. To say more Azerbaijan is a state which we have a friendship treaty with. To say even more - all those our "allies", "brothers" and "friends" including Serbia, Belorussia, Azerbaijan, Armenia ( in past Bulgaria and Ukraine could also have been mentioned in that list) - they all call for help when they are being bullied, but in more well-fed times they talk about "multivector policy", start colour revolutions etc. So since we are all no more members of socialist USSR where everybody were brothers and should help each other ( at least that's what they taught us at school ) - we'll do ourselves a favour if we won't succumb to our heart's impulses and look at the situation cold-minded. De jure battle actions are on the PRK's territory, not on a territory of Armenia - so since Armenia is not directly involved and our base at Gumri is safe - there is no reasons to take Armenia's side in military sense. What us ethnical russians should immediately do - is to stop flying to Turkish resorts and spend there our money for Erdogan. Our authorities could once again close flights there for COVID reasons or whatever.

[Skybird]

They have indeed.

I couldn't help thinking on some of Skybird's comment on Turkey, Erdogan and the ottoman empire, when I read the link posted in my last post.

Markus
Its not just the revisionist nationalistic ottoman claim for lost empire and glory, but also Islam's claim that anything and everything it ever hasput its foot upon shall be forever its own, forever and ever, thats why Erdoghan imply the olc claim for the Territorues in Quroe that once were conquered by the Muslim invasions of the past, right down to spain and the centre of France, Vienna anyway. Many in the West make the mistake of wanting to draw Erdoghan just as a powerhungry nationalist and autocrat, so that Islam must not be thought about and can be continued to be glosse dover and painted nicely. They forget, or better they ignore (since they never cared to notice it in the first) that the AKP and the whole movement and cult around Erdoghan started on and was and is focussing on the religious relevance of it all, too. You cannot separate Turkish nationalism from devout religious conservatism.And in Islam, policy and sociology and religion is one and the same anyway, another important detail that Westerners all too often stubbornly refuse to take note of. Our Wetsern constitutions are not prepared fr that, since they differ between all that. This way, Islam claims untouchability for its political agendas by claiming protection of religion. Any Western player accepting this, necessarily strangles himself.

[TopTorp '92]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.andreas-unterberger.at%2F2020%2F08%2Fkriegsgefahr-fr-europa%2F


Watching this with with hawk eyes since long. There is lots of potential for a huge violent eruption in this, that will send shockwaves not just to the mediterranean region, but beyond.


And Germany once again seems to stand on the wrong side. :wah:
No one cares because no one is affected.

[mapuc]

No one cares because no one is affected.

They had a 5 minute long issue on this subject in the news at 10. An expert was interviewet by the host and he said.

This has becoming a by-proxy war, where both side gets help from different countries.
The biggest fear is it will draw Iran into the conflict.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Why would Russia even care about what Cyprus does are does not do?

46 years is a long time for this beach to be closed except to the Turkish Military

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-10-07/russia-says-northern-cypruss-plans-to-open-varosha-beach-unacceptable

Russia Says Northern Cyprus's Plans to Open Varosha Beach Unacceptable

MOSCOW (REUTERS) - Russia's Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday it was seriously concerned by Northern Cyprus's plans to open Varosha beach, calling the decision to do so unacceptable.

Northern Cyprus said on Tuesday it will reopen the beach area of an abandoned resort in no-man's land, a move condemned by Greek Cypriots.

Varosha has been off limits along ceasefire lines to all but the Turkish military since 1974 and has stood as a bargaining chip in the decades-long dispute between Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

If you click on the link there is also a video of the abandoned ghost town :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Famagusta is an eerie place or at least it was when I visited in 1984 whilst on honeymoon.

[Mr Quatro]

Just an exercise ... nothing to worry about. Russia testing someone perhaps :hmmm:


This week Russia and six other countries are carrying out a largescale military exercise called Kavkaz-2020 (Caucasus 2020). This exercise will take place predominantly in Russia’s Southern Military District, a region that stretches from Russian-occupied Crimea in the west, to the Caspian Sea in the east, and the volatile North Caucasus in the middle. Certain parts of the exercise will take place outside Russia’s borders as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNr1JzGYZUg

[Rockstar]

France-Turkey row reaches new highs after Erdoğan hurls insults at Macron
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/france-turkey-row-reaches-new-highs-after-erdogan-hurls-insults-at-macron-11603716428
Watchout Macron, watch your back. If you keep up the anti-Erdogan rhetoric chances are you wont be president much longer. Germany's fuehrer Aunty Merkel and will protect her boyfriend and have you run out of town and have you replaced by someone more axis alliance friendly.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvJx_fNiJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzHrO4I4X0

[Rockstar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvJx_fNiJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzHrO4I4X0




Erdogan is the boyfriend and old axis ally of the E.U.'s new fuehrer aunty Merkel. Since she came to power 15 years ago no other euro leader of a so called 'sovereign' nation has had a second term in office. Macron is sticking his neck out here. I fear he will not be president much longer for speaking out against the German/Turkish authority.

[Jimbuna]

I've really got no idea on the subject other than to admit I cannot stand the guy.

I'm not much fonder of Macron neither tbh.

[Jimbuna]

Erdogan has called on Turks to boycott French goods.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54692485

[Rockstar]

I've really got no idea on the subject other than to admit I cannot stand the guy.

I'm not much fonder of Macron neither tbh.


Meanwhile like every good women should, Merkel is keeping quiet and standing by her man Erdogan. :D

[mapuc]

We stand together i EU....except if one of the member state have diplomatically problem with a country outside EU...then they are on their own.

Denmark was also quite alone in their Muhamad crisis in 2005-something. If I remember correctly the only support the Danish government got from EU was what I call mental support.

Markus

[Catfish]

Meanwhile like every good women should, Merkel is keeping quiet and standing by her man Erdogan. :D
Turkish strong in Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBAiI45GjGw

[Jimbuna]

:haha:

[Rockstar]

France warns citizens to be cautious as anger seethes in Muslim world over cartoons

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-boycott/france-warns-citizens-to-be-cautious-as-anger-seethes-in-muslim-world-over-cartoons-idUSKBN27C1IA

Seems the last bastion of Liberté, égalité, fraternité on continental Europe will soon be a thing of the past. Bet he gets replaced by someone aligned with the goals of fuehrer Merkel and Germany's old friend and ally Turkey.

Brits were wise leaving the merkelreich when they did.

[Jimbuna]

I can't say how close Merkel and Erdogan are atm but I doubt it is that close and France is well able to handle herself militarily within the boundaries of continental Europe.

I suspect this latest spat will be decided one way or the other through trade terms.

[Rockstar]

Oh I'm sure the Fuehrer and Erdogan aren't that friendly in fact I'd say she is too timid to be an equal as it appears Erdogan is running the show. His recent threats of war were just sabre rattling to get what he wanted at negotiations and primarily to make himself look good to the Islamic world. From what I understand he is stopping the flow of refugees on his side of the border but it seems he managed to strong arm Germany into paying for it. :haha:



https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-merkel-erdogan-and-a-faustian-refugee-bargain/a-52144093

[Jimbuna]

I believe the agreed sum was 6 billion Euro, the first 3 billion having already been paid and the second 3 billion is due next month.

[ikalugin]

Just an exercise ... nothing to worry about. Russia testing someone perhaps :hmmm:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNr1JzGYZUg


While I am late to the party Kavkaz happens every four years. Next year people would discuss how Zapad-2021 is a pretext for invasion of Poland or something.