Sunrise and Sunset shifting

[Kapitän]

Hi All,

I've been experiencing an intersting phenomenon as of late:

The sunrise and sunset are shifting, at times to a point, wheras it is dark during the day and light during the night.

Before, it happened when being far north/south and I explained it for that reason.

Now, it's happening just west of Lorient.

I'm using CoM10.0.

You guys have any clues?

[Levyathan89]

I know this phenomenon from Silent Hunter 4 (Dark Waters). There, these shifts are caused by using high levels of time compression over a long time period. Haven't seen this in SH3 yet, though.

[Kapitän]

I know this phenomenon from Silent Hunter 4 (Dark Waters). There, these shifts are caused by using high levels of time compression over a long time period. Haven't seen this in SH3 yet, though.


Thanks!

The highest time compression I go to is 64x and never longer than several hours or so ...

[Kapitän]

Further details:

23 Sept.1940 - Sunrise 10:00 - Sunset 22:49

24 Sept.1940 - Sunrise 11:56 - Sunset 00:40, 25 Sept.

25 Sept.1940 - Sunrise 21:41 - Sunset 10:01, 26 Sept.

26 Sept. 1940 - Sunrise 23:30 - Sunset 11:22, 27 Sept.

I wonder, if this could have something to do with the Randomised Events File of CCoM10 ...

[Fifi]

.

I wonder, if this could have something to do with the Randomised Events File of CCoM10 ...

Don’t think so.
Your weather clock seems running offset...maybe reset the weather? (Don’t remember the hot keys)

[Kapitän]

Don’t think so.
Your weather clock seems running offset...maybe reset the weather? (Don’t remember the hot keys)

"Weather Clock - Reset": I didn't even know, that there was such a thing ...

Where do I find that, please?

[Fifi]

"Weather Clock - Reset": I didn't even know, that there was such a thing ...

Where do I find that, please?

I think it’s Ctr+N...but it might be only for SH4 weather...never tried in SH3 :oops:

[Kapitän]

I think it’s Ctr+N...but it might be only for SH4 weather...never tried in SH3 :oops:


Well, Ctr+N is "UZO-Down" in CCoM10 (Shift+N is "UZO-Up") ...

[Pisces]

Not only has the time of sunrise and sunset shifted. They are expanded far too much with a longer daytime in your example. Around the 26th of september is the equinox. Meaning duration of night and day should be the same. So if it is sunrise at 10:01 it would be expected to be sunset at 22:01-ish. Sunrise in Lorient, France on 23rd of September in 1940 was actually 08:01 and 20:09 local time.

September 1940, Lorien, France:
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/@6437298?month=9&year=1940

Your data is completely fubared from real.

[Aquelarrefox]

The sunset shifts in local time smoothly between dates if you travel changing longitude the sunset will be offset much by the guidance to local time. Anyway the game local time is not real local time like in astronomy, is local huso time

[Kapitän]

Not only has the time of sunrise and sunset shifted. They are expanded far too much with a longer daytime in your example. Around the 26th of september is the equinox. Meaning duration of night and day should be the same. So if it is sunrise at 10:01 it would be expected to be sunset at 22:01-ish. Sunrise in Lorient, France on 23rd of September in 1940 was actually 08:01 and 20:09 local time.

September 1940, Lorien, France:
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/@6437298?month=9&year=1940

Your data is completely fubared from real.


Thanks for the link! Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case in my game ... I wonder what the reason could be ...

[Kapitän]

The sunset shifts in local time smoothly between dates if you travel changing longitude the sunset will be offset much by the guidance to local time. Anyway the game local time is not real local time like in astronomy, is local huso time


Yes, I have always experienced a gradual shifting in Sunset/Sunrise and basically, attributed it to your explanation. I just haven't seen it change so drastically and wonder, what the cause may be ...

[Aquelarrefox]

Yes, I have always experienced a gradual shifting in Sunset/Sunrise and basically, attributed it to your explanation. I just haven't seen it change so drastically and wonder, what the cause may be ...

You can search about navigation issues,I believe the cause of them could shift sunset. I know there was an accumulate shift or a reset. Personally I didn't realise an excessive change to notice... How long it's your patrol?

[Kapitän]

You can search about navigation issues,I believe the cause of them could shift sunset. I know there was an accumulate shift or a reset. Personally I didn't realise an excessive change to notice... How long it's your patrol?


I left St.Nazaire on 22 Sept. 1940 ...

[Doolar]

Funny how this post came up, I've just experienced the same thing. In my patrol, I left Breast for AE77. That's just a tad SW of Iceland. I'm aware it's far north and it was July. All was good until I took a cruse to the north side of Iceland. At that point my daylight hours started at 1630 and ended at 2330 and stayed that way until I finished the patrol in September. I had a lot of success in the BE and BF grids after hanging around Iceland and moving south, so head'n home was not an option. It was still messed up. I was in the northern latitudes for about 50 days and never go above 64x. I'm also using GWX3. I've only experienced this 1 other time, many patrols and many years ago. After docking and ending that patrol, I started another patrol and all was good. The day/night times must have reset or something. This is only the 2nd time I've had this happen. I wounder if it had something to do with the arctic day/night cycle in summer months for extended periods of time. Just'a thought.

[Kapitän]

Funny how this post came up, I've just experienced the same thing. In my patrol, I left Breast for AE77. That's just a tad SW of Iceland. I'm aware it's far north and it was July. All was good until I took a cruse to the north side of Iceland. At that point my daylight hours started at 1630 and ended at 2330 and stayed that way until I finished the patrol in September. I had a lot of success in the BE and BF grids after hanging around Iceland and moving south, so head'n home was not an option. It was still messed up. I was in the northern latitudes for about 50 days and never go above 64x. I'm also using GWX3. I've only experienced this 1 other time, many patrols and many years ago. After docking and ending that patrol, I started another patrol and all was good. The day/night times must have reset or something. This is only the 2nd time I've had this happen. I wounder if it had something to do with the arctic day/night cycle in summer months for extended periods of time. Just'a thought.


With me it's happening with CCoM10, right now ...

[Kapitän]

So, this what I do, when I want to take a break from playing and want the weather to stay the way it is when I restart and to ensure, that the damage on previously torpedoed ships remains and is still there, after I load the game again:

I save the game and return to the menue BUT I don't exit the game. I merely, go back to the Windows desktop and turn the PC to Hibernate.

This way, all I have to do to restart the game is resume the PC from hibernation and load the last game save.

This also, seems to reduce the probability of "Malfunction & Sabotage" from the Sh3_Cmdr.

Naturally, I do not use this practice, when I take a break from playing for an extended period of time.

I do wonder though, if this practice of mine, may contribute to the shifting sunrise/sunset "problem" ...

[Doolar]

I haf to admit, I'm a little heavy on the "pause" I've pause SHIII over nite many times. Never in all my years have I experienced a crash or any problems with the game. I save every 3 game days and after tonnage. I shut everything down and restart every other save.

[Kapitän]

I haf to admit, I'm a little heavy on the "pause" I've pause SHIII over nite many times. Never in all my years have I experienced a crash or any problems with the game. I save every 3 game days and after tonnage. I shut everything down and restart every other save.


I save every day at 12:00 and 24:00 and in between time, after any ship sinking etc. but continue until a good time to leave the game, i.e., mid ocean, no other ships around, surfaced ...

[Tyronster]

This is a known issue on SH4. The problem arises when you play the game with high framerates. The higher you go the worse it gets. Locking SH4 at 30 fps fixes the problem. Perhaps SH3 is the same way?

Tried finding the thread where guys were discussing it but not having any luck.

[Kapitän]

This is a known issue on SH4. The problem arises when you play the game with high framerates. The higher you go the worse it gets. Locking SH4 at 30 fps fixes the problem. Perhaps SH3 is the same way?

Tried finding the thread where guys were discussing it but not having any luck.


Interesting! Very possible, that it could be similar with SH3. I never pay much attention to the framerates. How can one "lock" them?

[Fifi]

Interesting! Very possible, that it could be similar with SH3. I never pay much attention to the framerates. How can one "lock" them?

Probably using Nvidia Inspector :yep:

[Kapitän]

Probably using Nvidia Inspector :yep:

Is that an external program to be installed on the PC seperatly?

[Fifi]

Yes, it’s a little application VERY helpful :yep:
Google : Nvidia Inspector download
I couldn’t play on Nvidia card without it.
You adjust all your video settings there.

[Kapitän]

Yes, it’s a little application VERY helpful :yep:
Google : Nvidia Inspector download
I couldn’t play on Nvidia card without it.
You adjust all your video settings there.

I also noticed, that Bandicam has an option to limit the framerate. Would that also be a solution?

[Fifi]

Don’t know...

[Tyronster]

Interesting! Very possible, that it could be similar with SH3. I never pay much attention to the framerates. How can one "lock" them?

What I ended up using is the Nvidia control panel.

1. When on your windows desktop right click anywhere in the background and a menu should come up. If NVIDIA Control Panel shows up as any of the options then you should be able to do the same thing I did.

3355

2. Now in this program under Manage 3D Settings as shown in the picture, change the tab from Global to Program Settings.

3356

3. Click Add, and if the SH3 launcher icon shows up you should be able to just select that. If it doesn't show up you may have to click browse and find it wherever you have it installed. (The example here shows SH4 but I'm guessing SH3 will be the same)

4. Once that is done scroll through the options until you see Max Frame Rate as I have highlighted in the picture. Click the little drop down arrow and it will give a slider you can move or you can just type 30 in the little box on the right. Click OK.

5. A button will appear on the bottom of the Control Panel that says "Apply". Click that and you should be good to go!

As a side note your in game time may still be screwed up in your current patrol but I would guess when you start your next one it should be correct and stay correct.

Also if you don't have this as an option I would guess that using bandicam to limit it would probably work as well.

Good luck

[Aktungbby]

Tyronster!:Kaleun_Salute: quite a silent run!:yeah:

[Kapitän]

What I ended up using is the Nvidia control panel.

1. When on your windows desktop right click anywhere in the background and a menu should come up. If NVIDIA Control Panel shows up as any of the options then you should be able to do the same thing I did.

3355

2. Now in this program under Manage 3D Settings as shown in the picture, change the tab from Global to Program Settings.

3356

3. Click Add, and if the SH3 launcher icon shows up you should be able to just select that. If it doesn't show up you may have to click browse and find it wherever you have it installed. (The example here shows SH4 but I'm guessing SH3 will be the same)

4. Once that is done scroll through the options until you see Max Frame Rate as I have highlighted in the picture. Click the little drop down arrow and it will give a slider you can move or you can just type 30 in the little box on the right. Click OK.

5. A button will appear on the bottom of the Control Panel that says "Apply". Click that and you should be good to go!

As a side note your in game time may still be screwed up in your current patrol but I would guess when you start your next one it should be correct and stay correct.

Also if you don't have this as an option I would guess that using bandicam to limit it would probably work as well.

Good luck

Wow, thanks for that! Very helpful!

I'm in mid-patrol right now and will give the Bandicam-Option a try and if necessarry, the way you described, between patrols.

Just one last question: Does it necessarrily have to be 30 fps or can it be another number, e.g., 40?

Thanks, again!

[Kapitän]

Hi Guys,

I activated the FPS Display option in Bandicam and started the game, and get crazy high FPS numbers displayed in top left corner of the screen:

- In the game menue, over 2000
- After the game save is loaded,- Inside the boat on the different stations (F2 - F9), up to and over 800
- Outside the boat (F10 - F12), up to and over 300
Can this be? I have a 60Hz Screen ...

So what would happen to the game, if I lock the FPS via Bandicam to 60 or lower?

Thanks!

[Tyronster]

Wow, thanks for that! Very helpful!

I'm in mid-patrol right now and will give the Bandicam-Option a try and if necessarry, the way you described, between patrols.

Just one last question: Does it necessarrily have to be 30 fps or can it be another number, e.g., 40?

Thanks, again!

Hi Guys,

I activated the FPS Display option in Bandicam and started the game, and get crazy high FPS numbers displayed in top left corner of the screen:

- In the game menue, over 2000
- After the game save is loaded,- Inside the boat on the different stations (F2 - F9), up to and over 800
- Outside the boat (F10 - F12), up to and over 300
Can this be? I have a 60Hz Screen ...

So what would happen to the game, if I lock the FPS via Bandicam to 60 or lower?

Thanks!

It doesn't necessarily have to be 30 but the sunrise and sunset will be the most accurate if it is locked at 30. Locking at 40 or 60 fps will improve the accuracy a lot. It will probably still not be perfectly correct but it shouldn't deviate as quickly as it does now with your computer pumping out the massive frames it is now.

Lord knows why the developers made a system like this where the day/night cycle is tied to framerates but it is what it is. I think 30 fps was sort of a standard for gaming at the time. They probably weren't anticipating us playing this 15 years later with the hardware we have today.

So about the high framerates shown in bandicam on your second post. So yes, even with a 60 hz monitor your computer will pump out as many frames as it can if you don't restrict it. So it's pumping out 300 fps and beyond but your monitor can on display 60 fps. So basically it doesn't matter if it's 5000 or 60 fps, you will only see the 60 that your monitor can display. By limiting your frames you actual ease the workload of your hardware by not making it it work as hard as possible to give you unnecessary frames.

I do feel your pain. I have a 144hz monitor and I didn't want to limit it clear down to 30. When you are used to the higher framerates it sucks having to give up that nice crisp experience but honestly it's not that bad. I feel like I don't really notice it after playing for a bit. I figure it's worth it to make the time cycles work correctly. Keep in mind that even though it may look like it's nighttime in the game if the time cycles are way off it could actually be broad daylight and the games AI may be able to see you way easier because to "them" it's daytime.

I hope this was helpful. Also remember all my info from this is coming things I've read about SH4. It seems like exactly the same problem people were having with that game so I'm pretty confident it will help you but I guess i can't guarantee it.

[Kapitän]

It doesn't necessarily have to be 30 but the sunrise and sunset will be the most accurate if it is locked at 30. Locking at 40 or 60 fps will improve the accuracy a lot. It will probably still not be perfectly correct but it shouldn't deviate as quickly as it does now with your computer pumping out the massive frames it is now.

Lord knows why the developers made a system like this where the day/night cycle is tied to framerates but it is what it is. I think 30 fps was sort of a standard for gaming at the time. They probably weren't anticipating us playing this 15 years later with the hardware we have today.

So about the high framerates shown in bandicam on your second post. So yes, even with a 60 hz monitor your computer will pump out as many frames as it can if you don't restrict it. So it's pumping out 300 fps and beyond but your monitor can on display 60 fps. So basically it doesn't matter if it's 5000 or 60 fps, you will only see the 60 that your monitor can display. By limiting your frames you actual ease the workload of your hardware by not making it it work as hard as possible to give you unnecessary frames.

I do feel your pain. I have a 144hz monitor and I didn't want to limit it clear down to 30. When you are used to the higher framerates it sucks having to give up that nice crisp experience but honestly it's not that bad. I feel like I don't really notice it after playing for a bit. I figure it's worth it to make the time cycles work correctly. Keep in mind that even though it may look like it's nighttime in the game if the time cycles are way off it could actually be broad daylight and the games AI may be able to see you way easier because to "them" it's daytime.

I hope this was helpful. Also remember all my info from this is coming things I've read about SH4. It seems like exactly the same problem people were having with that game so I'm pretty confident it will help you but I guess i can't guarantee it.

That is amazing! Thanks a bunch! I will keep it at 60 fps for now and see how it will respond during this patrol and the next one.

Sunrise and Sunset are already off (late) by about 4 hours during this patrol but it seems that since I made the change to 60 fps, it hasn't moved any further ...

If needed, I will work my way down by 10er steps to 30.

I'm not sure, I have noticed a different AI behaviour from how they usually do during day and night time but will keep an eye on that - thanks!

Happy Hunting and Thanks, again!!!

[Tyronster]

That is amazing! Thanks a bunch! I will keep it at 60 fps for now and see how it will respond during this patrol and the next one.

Sunrise and Sunset are already off (late) by about 4 hours during this patrol but it seems that since I made the change to 60 fps, it hasn't moved any further ...

If needed, I will work my way down by 10er steps to 30.

I'm not sure, I have noticed a different AI behaviour from how they usually do during day and night time but will keep an eye on that - thanks!

Happy Hunting and Thanks, again!!!

Stopping by just for curiosity's sake. Does it still seem like your problem has been fixed?

[Kapitän]

Stopping by just for curiosity's sake. Does it still seem like your problem has been fixed?


I believe so, thanks for asking! I haven't been able to complete my current patrol, yet but it seems, that the Sunrise/Sunset are not shifting anymore or only very little, since they are out of wack already.

Once starting a new patrol, I will know for sure ...

[Fifi]

Clock going progressively off might be related to high FPS but also to long high TC in my opinion...

[Kapitän]

Hi All,

Just a quick feedback. I started a new war patrol in Jan.1941 with the FPS set at 50.

Seems to work pretty good, merely shifting when changing latitude during travel, as one would expect.

Not quite in accordance with historic astronomical data but still pretty good.

I think, I will leave it there for now and only change again if needed.

Thanks and Happy Hunting!

[Kapitan]

Interesting choice of names :D

[Kapitän]

YES!!!

[Orffen]

Clock going progressively off might be related to high FPS but also to long high TC in my opinion...

My understanding of the SH4 thread on this is that high TC is good (within reason), because the game abstracts the time calculations in some way instead of them being so framerate-linked:

When playing at 1x to 1024x time compression, the game is REMARKABLY accurate when rendering sunset and sunrise! (Compared to Almanac times.) A bit less accurate when rendering moonset and moonrise. However, when playing ONLY at 1x, a cumulative error occurs which offsets the synchronization of the celestial sphere so that the sunrise, sunset, moonset, moonrise times are out of sync with the Base Time clock, even when not traveling outside (east-west) of the Base Time zone.

I think common practice with SH3 though is only 256x TC - which may be low enough that it doesn't kick the engine into the more abstracted clock.

In any case, be aware than in SH4 this is only a graphical effect - the AI uses the "true" base time in determining how easy it is to detect you - so high noon at midnight for you is still just a dark midnight for the AI logic.

But as Front Runner said all that time ago, the important takeaways are:


Limit your framerate to no higher than 60 FPS
Play Silent Hunter
Be more aggressive!

:salute:

[Texas Red]

What seemed to cause it for me was when I was in an area off Halifax where its 23:00 and its still light out, but when it gets to 0600, it turns dark.
I think the weather is linked to the area you are in but the timezone does not change.

[JeromeHeretic]

Hi guys, i didn't read whole this thread, just first few posts about this problem, so don't know if it was not answered.
But i hope this can help to you.
There is my sun almanac for north hemisphere:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2097672&postcount=143


As i investigated, the years in SH3 are the same, so it works for all years. But i don't remember if there was some trouble with 29 Feb 1944, maybe is sun to the end of this year shifted for this 29th day.


And second thing - there are two times in SH3, do you know about it?
There is one time set up by timezone when your mission start and second time - local time showing time of your local timezone, where your uboat actualy is.
Read first few pages from celestial navaigation revisited (i linked you post with almanac from this thread, so just look at the whole thread), there is Bravo's investigation about SH3 timers...


After that you will understand what happening in your game. Because time setting is changing for example when you load your previously saved game. At that moment clock in sub are set to local time of timezone where sub is, even when your base is in GMT time zone and when you started patrol, clock in sub was setup to GMT.

[Doolar]

Had a question about Frame rates. My frame rates run about 40-160 at sea depending on weather I’m near land or not. They’re not as high near land. In port with traffic I get the 40+ and at sea I’m in the 140-160 range. On the Map, interior crew management screens up to 340+fps. I think it might be a tad more. But before my question, on this post, about high frame rates and the effects it has on the night times and day times shifting. I do understand that traveling, east-west, north–south and seasons effect the day light and night time dark periods by a few hours. No problems there.
I do spend quite a few hours in the, high frame rate “Map” screen and when I did over the course of several weeks on patrol the day/night hours shifted almost opposite. Sun rise was like 2330 and sun set was, 0930. I really don’t understand the technicals on why frame rates effect the clock and light and dark periods. So I gave it a shot and using my AMD software (ADRENALINE ) I set a max limit of 60fps. Problem solved. Everything maxes out at 60fps, including the nav map. My monitors are 60hz, so I notice no ill effects visually and there was not this time shift. Is this OK or should I bump it up a bit. Not clear what the optimum frame rate setting should be for best results. Opinions welcome. Now to my question. I have a gaming laptop with a monitor that’s a 144hz monitor. Should I set my frame rate limit to 144fps ? I’m thinking 60fps would cause negative visual issues. Or should I just leave it be and not set any frame rate limits. My video card is a NVidia on this laptop and not AMD, if this makes a difference.
Does anyone experience the “time shifting over time and make these frame rate limit adjustments ? Maybe I not understanding this “Time Shift / Frame Rate” connection and am way off base here. All Mega Mods have time shifts for me. Thanx

[Kapitän]

Had a question about Frame rates. My frame rates run about 40-160 at sea depending on weather I’m near land or not. They’re not as high near land. In port with traffic I get the 40+ and at sea I’m in the 140-160 range. On the Map, interior crew management screens up to 340+fps. I think it might be a tad more. But before my question, on this post, about high frame rates and the effects it has on the night times and day times shifting. I do understand that traveling, east-west, north–south and seasons effect the day light and night time dark periods by a few hours. No problems there.
I do spend quite a few hours in the, high frame rate “Map” screen and when I did over the course of several weeks on patrol the day/night hours shifted almost opposite. Sun rise was like 2330 and sun set was, 0930. I really don’t understand the technicals on why frame rates effect the clock and light and dark periods. So I gave it a shot and using my AMD software (ADRENALINE ) I set a max limit of 60fps. Problem solved. Everything maxes out at 60fps, including the nav map. My monitors are 60hz, so I notice no ill effects visually and there was not this time shift. Is this OK or should I bump it up a bit. Not clear what the optimum frame rate setting should be for best results. Opinions welcome. Now to my question. I have a gaming laptop with a monitor that’s a 144hz monitor. Should I set my frame rate limit to 144fps ? I’m thinking 60fps would cause negative visual issues. Or should I just leave it be and not set any frame rate limits. My video card is a NVidia on this laptop and not AMD, if this makes a difference.
Does anyone experience the “time shifting over time and make these frame rate limit adjustments ? Maybe I not understanding this “Time Shift / Frame Rate” connection and am way off base here. All Mega Mods have time shifts for me. Thanx


So, I have the FPS lockedat 60 using Bandicam. I do seem to notice though, that there are some horizontal lines, when moving about in the boat.

Time shifts seem to be within range, considering I'm currently heading for the Far East.

My monitor information DVI is:
Model: Ijyama PL2273HD
H.Freq. 67.2 KKz
V.Freq. 59.7 Hz
Resolution: 1920x1080
Pixel Clock: 139.7 MHz

I'm not quite sure myself, which would be the ideal FPS rate, when considering these monitor specs.

[Doolar]

I guess I'll just haf to experiment. It's easy but Game loading time consuming ... LOL