Modern Era Submarine II [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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maslas

05-29-20, 10:15 AM

We are discussing with the SubSim community the feasibility of a modern submarine simulator called...

Modern Naval Warfare (https://mnw.maslasbros.com/)

https://youtu.be/OSJUMZ62Onk

by the MaslasBros (https://maslasbros.com)

:)

Aktungbby

05-29-20, 11:38 AM

maslas!:Kaleun_Salute:

Julhelm

05-29-20, 02:29 PM

Well do you have something to show?

maslas

05-29-20, 10:57 PM

Well do you have something to show?

It is understandable that you do want evidence of what I am proposing here.
But I said "I have the means" not a ready to launch product, because if I did then I wouldn't ask for the communities opinion on this matter but marketize it.

Wouldn't I?

Unless you are seeking evidence for my teams capacity on this matter. Which is acceptable too. Please clarify.

maslas

05-29-20, 10:58 PM

maslas!:Kaleun_Salute:
:Kaleun_Cheers:

Texas Red

05-30-20, 04:09 PM

Yes this sounds like a good idea but do you have any screenshots or anything? Or you just proposing an idea for someone else to do?

maslas

05-31-20, 11:14 PM

Yes this sounds like a good idea but do you have any screenshots or anything? Or you just proposing an idea for someone else to do?

Thanks for the direct answer. :)

No I am not proposing an idea for someone else to do. I am researching if it is worth to put effort and of course money on a quality project of such genre.
I opened this post to gauge the interest...

As for the second half of your first question... Now let me think :hmmm:

Amiral Crapaud

06-01-20, 12:36 AM

Hawk66

06-01-20, 12:54 AM

Hi again,

After a stormy night my yesterdays post got sunk. Reemerging from the deep with the same question.

We have the means for a Modern Era SubSim like Dangerous Waters but with modern AAA Graphics, Multi-station Coop, Story driven and dynamic campaign.
We are targeting on the following Submarine classes for starts:

Virginia Class
Astute Class
Type 214 or 212

Will the community of SubSim support a project like that?

I am really sorry for those who did answer and I didn't get the chance to return back to them.

That sounds all nice but frankly if your goal is to earn money or even just settle your expenses, this community will not be sufficient, I guess.

Have you already experience with a complex simulation project like this ?

maslas

06-01-20, 01:09 AM

I'd buy that! (for more than a dollar though :Kaleun_Wink:)
But my feeling is that if you're motivated, you should go for it - you won't get from the subsim forum alone the sort of attention/support (especially the financial kind) you would need to know in advance that your game is viable. If you have the technical skills & the funding to spare, going for a prototype sounds like the safe and efficient way.

At any rate, just so we're clear, except if you're making it multistation but still fun (aka much simplified), your glass ceiling is - best case scenario - the audience reached by Cold Waters. Make it multistations but require people to learn to operate an actual sonar to play it and you're in Dangerous Waters zone. If you're looking for a way to make your life easy, there are better ways. :03:
...

That sounds all nice but frankly if your goal is to earn money or even just settle your expenses, this community will not be sufficient, I guess. ...

Truly guys,
These are the answers that I was looking for, thank you :Kaleun_Cheers:

... Have you already experience with a complex simulation project like this ?

Don't want to brag about it... but we have what is needed.

...I am making a carrier simulation myself, and if I ever get to half the numbers of Cold Waters, I'll die a happy man :D...

Best of luck to you too!

Other thoughts or opinions are acceptable too. So keep it coming!

Julhelm

06-01-20, 03:31 AM

Don't want to brag about it... but we have what is needed.
What have you worked on or produced before? Any artist worth his salt can produce fancy graphics. It's the other stuff that is challenging.

sonicninja

06-01-20, 03:07 PM

Sounds good to me, I left the Navy before I got a chance to serve on an A Boat so this would be my opportunity I guess as an ex T Boat submariner, bring it on :Kaleun_Applaud:

FPSchazly

06-01-20, 05:08 PM

I feel like it's a rhetorical question to ask if we would support such a game. Yeah, of course! I feel like this would be the easiest of your obstacles to hurdle. What else do you need?

maslas

06-03-20, 01:49 AM

What have you worked on or produced before? Any artist worth his salt can produce fancy graphics. It's the other stuff that is challenging.

I feel like it's a rhetorical question to ask if we would support such a game. Yeah, of course! I feel like this would be the easiest of your obstacles to hurdle. What else do you need?

Well do you have something to show?

...Have you already experience with a complex simulation project like this ?

These are all reasonable questions guys!
But let me make a proper introduction to our studio first.
We are professionals in the corporate environment both on IT and Software Development sectors with 25years experience.
We are also the creators of the FlatUniverse (https://flatuniverse.maslasbros.com) multiplayer space shooter that is being used as a testbed for many technologies that we are going to use on a project like this (networking, sensors, ai, graphics, data serialization etc).

We are the MaslasBros (https://maslasbros.com) and that is what we propose...

(https://mnw.maslasbros.com) Modern Naval Warfare (https://mnw.maslasbros.com)

:salute:

kyrgiannis

06-03-20, 02:04 AM

And here is a direct link to our first teaser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJUMZ62Onk

We hope you like it!

Hawk66

06-03-20, 02:06 AM

the feature list is nice - as is the trailer....but I would estimate the effort is at least several man years looking at your planned scope.

Do y want to do this as a hobby project or fulltime ?

maslas

06-03-20, 06:16 AM

the feature list is nice - as is the trailer....but I would estimate the effort is at least several man years looking at your planned scope.

Do y want to do this as a hobby project or fulltime ?

Thanks...

Your estimations are correct but we are not looking at it as a hobby project as you mentioned, not at all.
Our project management and workflow gives us the advantage to give core features and expanding features later... but that depends on the funding that we will manage to raise.

These features mentioned are features that we can actually provide and we are "not theoretically" talking here.

FPSchazly

06-03-20, 07:01 AM

You've got some stuff there, looks interesting! Seems you're early in development. Do you have any interior shots or shots of stations?

maslas

06-03-20, 02:23 PM

You've got some stuff there, looks interesting! Seems you're early in development. Do you have any interior shots or shots of stations?

We have a rule to only show media that reach some quality standards and these standards are hi!

I only take the privilege to show this image because it is already uploaded on the website or else the rest of the team will hang me.

https://mnw.maslasbros.com/assets/posters/tech/VirginiaConn-372e19cf29af791a82262deacfaef299fcea9d2032b39bde89 303af57154157b.jpg

It is evident that Virginia is the first class that will be introduced.

We are on early development for a project of that magnitude. For those who know and understand there is a great series of finished jobs on the back end that we cannot show off.

Support us and we will publish it sooner :Kaleun_Cheers:

FPSchazly

06-18-20, 12:49 PM

Aktungbby

06-18-20, 07:20 PM

RoryGertrude!:Kaleun_Salute: Always good to have a Minnesotan aboard

Texas Red

06-18-20, 07:24 PM

WOW, this looks amazing! Cannot wait to buy it and test it out for myself!

Great work!

maslas

06-19-20, 01:26 PM

My apologies, I had actually seen that image on your website but I appreciate you posting it again here. Your game looks like it has some promise. What do you ask of this community with respect to support?

For the time being, spread the word!:haha: Let's show that there is place for this game on the market.

WOW, this looks amazing! Cannot wait to buy it and test it out for myself!

Great work!

Cannot wait to sell it to you either. :up:

All I am aloud to say for the time being is that we are on negotiations with a known publisher. Nothing is sure yet but I will be back with news pretty soon.

Thanks for the kind words. All of you!

Man your TMA stations and start tracking us :ping:

XenonSurf

06-19-20, 05:56 PM

I think it's time for me as a pure player - and not as a producer or developer - to give you my opinion here. I've played almost all subsims which deserve that name and frankly: I don't think that any new submarine simulation although it can surely be done would be a golden egg as for financial success. The genre is simply saturated. If I want to play a submarine game, it's enough for me to buy or play what is already exsistant, no new game can IMO surpass what has been done by Ubisoft, or other great titles mentioned above like Cold Waters, Dangerous Waters, SH series, and even sub games of the 90s which some players prefer because of their simple gameplay and not for their stunning grafics. Even the niche of simplistic sub sims is filled (Crash Dive excels in this area.)
Then, an important factor for you to investigate is: These mentioned titles surely had (have) great success by submarine lovers, but were (are) they financial successes overall? Not in all cases I think.

Only thing I would buy at this point probably is a sub sim like Cold Waters but with multistations and *optional* complexity in the instruments of a submarine and crew management (go look at the original stand of U-Boat for that matter), but the dynamic campaign and re-playability would be crucial for me, also a convincing war environment in the form of an intelligent plot that comes with the campaign. Some days I find the simple UI of Cold Waters good enough to just 'dive' in the game, complexity is not a must for me. But problem for you is: there ARE such games already, maybe not with stunning grafics or included storylines or unexpected events now and then, but these may not be a buy criteria for a sub game. I simply have a very hard time to imagine how you could make it that much better to ensure you big revenues, but then: Some seconds to watch a good play-through video of yours could change everything for me to make it an instant buyer, that's what I hope!

Then another thing you may not find spoken-out too openly in these forums: For younger people, 'submarines' are a thing of the past, not a delightment of the present, more a thing for History books. Another analogy of the past: Why are there no tank simulators published so often today? Because even a 12-year old kid knows: Tanks are there to be shot down, it's their inevitable quick fate, no chance, no real fun in any sort of realism-oriented game. It's hard for young people to forget about super rockets and playing a WW1 or WW2 game; even modern submarines start to have this image of remote times. For you this means it can make a big difference (say lack) in the selling numbers for your title.

I hope this feedback is of some help to you, I wish you good luck with your project should it materialize.

Best greetings,
XS

Pirate

06-20-20, 04:24 AM

Humm, this could be a true replacement for the Sonalysts sims Dangerous Waters, Sub Command and 688I!

It looks to be in very very early development stages, so right now, it's mostly promises...

But, you got my attention.

maslas

06-21-20, 02:23 AM

....but were (are) they financial successes overall? Not in all cases I think...

Thanks for the detailed thought. You are right. Financial success is a matter of perspective here. If in a parallel universe, I was EA with 9000 employees to feed anything that will cost me millions and doesn't return billions (I exaggerate to give emphasis) will be considered a failure.

Our perspective differs.

Then another thing you may not find spoken-out too openly in these forums: For younger people, 'submarines' are a thing of the past, not a delightment of the present, more a thing for History books. Another analogy of the past: Why are there no tank simulators published so often today? Because even a 12-year old kid knows: Tanks are there to be shot down, it's their inevitable quick fate...

The reason that you don't find spoken-out too openly what you've described it's because this is not a fact but a an opinion. Our research so far is bringing different results and is based to the fact that simulators are not games but hobbies.
However, your opinion is, as always, well respected :Kaleun_Cheers:

Humm, this could be a true replacement for the Sonalysts sims Dangerous Waters, Sub Command and 688I! ...

Well that's the plan!

It looks to be in very very early development stages, so right now, it's mostly promises...

Can't blame you on that. Only future will tell then!

Thanks both of you!

feld

06-24-20, 01:30 PM

My take as a player (and ex USN submarine officer if that matters)
1. I think the market is only saturated in WW2 subsims. I think that a spiritual to Dangerous Waters is long overdue. I'm loving Cold Waters but a real modern sub SIM would be wonderful.

2. If you agree with #1 then make it moddable. Greatly extends life.

3. Read or ask real submariners in your nation state(s) of residence about modern submarine operations...most modern subsims/games really miss out cool stuff that matters and is "fun" for a certain kind of player. Best recent example I can think of are both in Cold Waters. Game doesn't model diesel electric propulsion because it doesn't matter in combat. True. But it really matters on the campaign layer and I WISH they modelled it because it makes their 1968 campaign way less historically interesting than it should be.

4. See if there's a way to actually do raytracing in your sonar modelling. I don't think that any modern subsim has ever done this and it really matters. I think they just use standard formulae from Ulrich et al.

5. FOR THE LOVE OF PETE WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR SCENARIOS PUT IN A REALISTIC NUMBER OF BIOLOGICS AND MERCHANTS! I should be contact saturated in any littoral area in the world...even in 1968.

5. Don't expect to make a ton of money :(

v/r
feld

maslas

06-24-20, 02:07 PM

My take as a player (and ex USN submarine officer if that matters)...

Hi Feld,

I don't know if you had the chance to take a look on our feature list (https://mnw.maslasbros.com/#tech)...
Somehow you must have hacked our GDD (Game Development Document). In simple words.

1. Thanks and it matters that you are ex submarine officer

2. Agreed and featured

3. Agreed and can't tell more
4. Agreed and we are designing a special engine only for the purpose of sound propagation.
5. Agreed and featured
5(6). Agreed and we don't care to make a ton of money but get the amount that is needed to make this project feasible.

Thanks for the sincere comments :salute:

feld

06-24-20, 02:09 PM

Missed your feature list!

Mark me down as "tracking"! Also joined your Discord.

Is there a place I can wishlist this?

Kapitan

06-24-20, 05:41 PM

Certainly has my full attention looks good but as you can appreciate no one has developed a DW level modern subsim since 2005 so the community is a little skeptical.

However it would most certainly be very welcome should it come to fruition.

maslas

06-26-20, 04:44 AM

Certainly has my full attention looks good but as you can appreciate no one has developed a DW level modern subsim since 2005 so the community is a little skeptical.
...

Honestly, that "since 2005" is the tinder of our current call.

... However it would most certainly be very welcome should it come to fruition.

That's what we like to hear!

ForceGhost

06-26-20, 08:40 AM

I love the idea of different watches having different efficiency based on who’s on watch.

Looking good so far!

maslas

07-01-20, 09:53 PM

I love the idea of different watches having different efficiency based on who’s on watch.

Looking good so far!

Thanks!

Crew management was a feature that on every modern submarine title that we got our hands on, was missing.
It is the spice in a good submarine gameplay experience.

Onkel Neal

07-02-20, 10:55 AM

I like the concept, I would really like an graphically updated realistic Sub Command clone, something that focuses on the submarines. A game with SH5/Wolfpack type interaction with the control room of a Virginia class attack sub would be ideal.

Realistic TMA and Sonar stations
Sonar analysis that is user friendly

No cheat mode with magical underwater windows
challenging, realistic enemies
current world situation missions: Drug interdiction, Chinese, zee Russians, North Korea, convoy protection/attack, under ice cap missions where you have to find a suitable place to break through...

Financial: If you need funding, I would do it in stages: Release a demo for early supporters at $10; follow with an alpha at $10 additional, beta at another $10, then finished version at full price. Add in some full value DLC and you should be set.

Keep up the good work.
Neal

Texas Red

07-02-20, 12:04 PM

I like the concept, I would really like an graphically updated realistic Sub Command clone, but something that focuses on the submarines. A game with SH5/Wolfpack type interaction with the control room of a Virginia class attack sub would be ideal.

Realistic TMA and Sonar stations
Sonar analysis that is user friendly

No cheat mode without magical underwater windows
challenging, realistic enemies
current world situation missions: Drug interdiction, Chinese, zee Russians, North Korea, convoy protection/attack, under ice cap missions where you have to find a suitable place to break through...

Financial: If you need funding, I would do it in stages: Release a demo for early supporters at $10; follow with an alpha at $10 additional, beta at another $10, then finished version at full price. Add in some full value DLC and you should be set.

Keep up the good work.
Neal

I would like something like that as well.

Sounds good!

p7p8

07-02-20, 01:55 PM

1. Planned playable platforms (Virginia Class, Astute Class Type 214 or 212) suggest modern setting. Is it also implement modern ASW methods like multistatic sonar systems?

2. Will you implement different acoustic envronment for blue and shallow waters? What about regions with deep + shallow waters (shelf)?

3. Will you emulate different acoustic propagation near different kind of shorelines (fjords, flat sand beaches etc.) ?

Skybird

07-02-20, 02:08 PM

Honestly said, my perception of all this gives a weired impression. Some of the answers you give, maslas, imo are evasive, and pointing at something vague. Lets put it this way: I seem to have picked up something on my sonar, but I cannot tell whether it is a whale, a boat, a ship, ours or theirs - or just a phantom echo of nothing from nowhere. Its just too little info in too weak a signal.

I do not want to discourage you, in case you mean serious business, but I would recommend to not step forward before you have something more substantial to show. This generally has only advantages, and no disadvantages. For example to not raise early expectations for which there is no substantial basis, just speculation and - well, people's individual expectations: will not backfire well! Spoiling tzo early a jump start can ruin a projects reputation forever, or at least years to come, even after it got better (Raceroom is a good example). Better advance the project silently, and "strike" not before it is advanced enough to indeed "kill". Once that happens for real, I may become an interested observer and if the content is right and the pace of work is promising and constant: maybe even an early supporter; but right now - sorry, but for me this thread is a bit too thin to base any further expectations on. Prove my scepticism wrong in the future, and I happily will change my attitude.

Lets meet again in 9-12 months or so, and then we see.

Nichts für ungut. ;)

Sea Demon

07-03-20, 04:38 AM

I like what I see as an introduction. If you do get this to market with the goals you have set, you can absolutely count me as a customer. I will buy this product for sure.

- What timetable do you envision for the development of this project? Estimated of course.

- Are you considering distributing on Steam as a means to grow your customer base?

maslas

07-03-20, 06:46 AM

I like the concept, I would really like an graphically updated...

...Keep up the good work.
Neal

Thanks Neal,
Realistic TMA and Sonar stations, sonar analysis that is user friendly

We have spent a great amount of our time on the research of all the Virginia stations. Will do our best.

*No cheat mode with magical underwater windows

Cheat mode? No no no we are making a simulator here.

*challenging, realistic enemies
The two most challenging and time consuming development parts of this project. AI and a realistic sound propagation model.
The idea is that the difficulty will be dependent on AI capabilities and actual mission design and not on magic sonars, invincible hulls and supersonic torpedoes.

*current world situation missions: Drug interdiction, Chinese, zee Russians, North Korea, convoy protection/attack, under ice cap missions where you have to find a suitable place to break through...
As an initial war theater we are bending towards the South China Sea. For every new theater that we will introduce new mission features will also be introduced too.

*Financial: If you need funding, I would do it in stages: Release a demo for early supporters at $10; follow with an alpha at $10 additional, beta at another $10, then finished version at full price. Add in some full value DLC and you should be set.

Will keep your proposition in mind although we are targeting for a direct and complete release. DLCs will of course come later and bundles too.

1. Planned playable platforms (Virginia Class, Astute Class Type 214 or 212) suggest modern setting. Is it also implement modern ASW methods like multistatic sonar systems?...

Part of our research is modern naval ASW tactics in order to achieve a realistic AI responsiveness. Multistatic sonar systems should be included (e.g. Pairs of frigates with extended LFTAS on the hunt).

2. Will you implement different acoustic envronment for blue and shallow waters? What about regions with deep + shallow waters (shelf)?...

We are aiming to give selective territories with as accurate as possible underwater details (elevation, salinity, temperature etc.). As I stated before, the sound propagation model on this project is one of the most challenging tasks.

3. Will you emulate different acoustic propagation near different kind of shorelines (fjords, flat sand beaches etc.) ?

One of the challenging tasks. Will do our best!

Honestly said, my perception of all this gives a weired impression. Some of the answers you give, maslas, imo are evasive, and pointing at something vague. Lets put it this way: I seem to have picked up something on my sonar, but I cannot tell whether it is a whale, a boat, a ship, ours or theirs - or just a phantom echo of nothing from nowhere. Its just too little info in too weak a signal...

It might be the teaser trailer that mixed your sensors and gave you that vague illusion. You see, it contains whales, a boat, a ship and the music theme gives this phantom echo of nothing from nowhere exactly as you describe!

But I can assure you that it is a submarine simulator that we are talking about here.

...I do not want to discourage you, in case you mean serious business, but I would recommend to not step forward before you have something more substantial to...

...Lets meet again in 9-12 months or so, and then we see.

Nichts für ungut. ;)

You don't and all the thoughts are accepted. That is all about this thread for. We are asking your opinions about the feasibility of a project like this! 90% of the answers are on target no matter if they are discouraging or not.

Ουδένα πρόβλημα. ;)

I like what I see as an introduction. If you do get this to market with the goals you have set, you can absolutely count me as a customer. I will buy this product for sure...

Thanks a lot :)

- What timetable do you envision for the development of this project? Estimated of course...

There is a time table already set on the table which is within realistic limits for a simulator of that magnitude but I will not say anything because it is too soon and it is a publishers call too on this matter. I am sorry!

- Are you considering distributing on Steam as a means to grow your customer base?

That is also the publishers call but I am pretty sure we are!

moose1am

07-03-20, 09:04 AM

It's already in development. Google "MicroProse" and see what you find. I follow them on Facebook to keep up with what they are doing. But my memory is faulty and I have a hard time recalling names on a timely basis. Give me a few hours and the name will pop into my mind where I can output it again. But right now the name of the game escaped me. Sorry. Google will find it though.

MicroProse did a game called 1942 Pacific Air Wars back in the early 1990s and these naval power games will be similar to some of MIcroProse's older naval games.

https://www.microprose.com/#

Google MicroProse and found the names.

Sea Power
Task Force Admiral

Those are two of the new games that they are working on already.

Badger343rd

07-03-20, 10:19 AM

It's pretty simple what we want....Dangerous waters with cold waters graphics

BUT...If I may suggest...

Make a free base game with 1 platform to populate servers ,and make all subsequent platforms as DLC

Polak2

07-04-20, 05:58 AM

Brothers Marek Španěl, and Ondřej Španěl established Bohemia Interactive also some 20 years ago. Operation Flashpoint and then Arma 1,2,3 and few other good games and simulations. There were some serious ups and downs in their career, but they persisted and the rest is history.

The problem and difference is that 20 years. Things were little different then than they are now. Especially for a niche and complex simulators. If you have drive and perhaps some financial support do some more serious market research and then consider if still go for it. High chances really are that the research will tell you: forget it and better quickly swim back to the shore. Its a pity, but its a true and harsh reality of today's life.

Wish you all the luck nonetheless! :Kaleun_Salute:

FPSchazly

07-05-20, 03:46 PM

Pilot_76

07-07-20, 12:19 AM

Sonar screens, TMA calculations, time compression of X1 are some of what I think a Modern sub sim should have. My 2c here. Dangerous Waters despite old is still my favorite Mod sub sim. Sorry 688 folks...:Kaleun_Applaud::Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

maslas

07-07-20, 12:51 AM

Brothers Marek Španěl, and Ondřej Španěl...
Wish you all the luck nonetheless! :Kaleun_Salute:

We truly appreciate the fact that you want to see this project alive on your screens and you also want us to be cautious about it. Not to crash on a reef some kind.
We are seriously considering all your thoughts no matter what.:salute:

...Make a free base game with 1 platform to populate servers ,and make all subsequent platforms as DLC

I second this. I think the DCS model is definitely something to consider.

We also like the way DCS is distributed but keep in mind Eagle Dynamics before getting into the DCS series of products first sold LockOn with UBI later Flaming Cliffs as independent producer, then Black Shark, then A10 etc.

Essentially we are talking about an evolution of the same product that ended up on the DCS platform and the way it is distributed today.

My personal thought on this matter is that first we have to produce and sell the first MNW and may it becomes the DCS of the oceans on the years to come.

Sonar screens, TMA calculations, time compression of X1 are some of what I think a Modern sub sim should have. My 2c here. Dangerous Waters despite old is still my favorite Mod sub sim. Sorry 688 folks...:Kaleun_Applaud::Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:
Agreed and thanks!

FPSchazly

07-07-20, 10:00 AM

We also like the way DCS is distributed but keep in mind Eagle Dynamics before getting into the DCS series of products first sold LockOn with UBI later Flaming Cliffs as independent producer, then Black Shark, then A10 etc.

Essentially we are talking about an evolution of the same product that ended up on the DCS platform and the way it is distributed today.

My personal thought on this matter is that first we have to produce and sell the first MNW and may it becomes the DCS of the oceans on the years to come.

This is a good point. I had not considered the initial stages of that type of software release. Eagle Dynamics seems to have built up a base of capital prior to let DCS have a free base game. Then, I wouldn't advocate a free base game with the users paying only for additional modules if it meant microtransactions and ads and all that stuff to make a free base game feasible initially. Perhaps a hybrid between the DCS model and the traditional model - a (somewhat reduced) charge for the base game and then pay money for additional modules. Of course, I'm not here to tell you what the best financial model is for your game, I just find it a very interesting topic in terms of what it takes for sims to survive in this modern video game era.

maslas

07-09-20, 12:13 AM

This is a good point. I had not considered the initial stages of that type of software release. Eagle Dynamics seems to have built up a base of capital prior to let DCS have a free base game. Then, I wouldn't advocate a free base game with the users paying only for additional modules if it meant microtransactions and ads and all that stuff to make a free base game feasible initially. Perhaps a hybrid between the DCS model and the traditional model - a (somewhat reduced) charge for the base game and then pay money for additional modules. Of course, I'm not here to tell you what the best financial model is for your game, I just find it a very interesting topic in terms of what it takes for sims to survive in this modern video game era.

It is interesting, this is actually the whole point of this thread isn't it?

Let me tell you something you already know...

Every single member of this site and that includes you and me knows what the features of MNW or any equivalent project should be. Maybe with some fluctuations or special preferences but we all do.
The big question is: "Should I spend the money to build it?"

You are on the right track of saying what is in your mind, no problem there.

Modern video game era!

I have no actual proof on what I am going to say. It is my personal opinion.
Simulators do not belong in the same market group as the rest video games.
A simulator designer/developer is addressed to a specific target group of educated individuals regarding a very specific topic and he is responsible to make this product last long.
The only common thing between video games and simulators is that they are sold by the same channel of distributors and that is something that comes from the 80s.
Back then the whole pc gaming community was assembled by those educated individuals (hobbyists) were today it is mutated into a retail market.

We have to be careful not to fall into the retail net.

Polak2

07-09-20, 04:22 PM

In today's rather tough market and job environment, there is IMHO only one way to fulfill someone's desire and dream to create simulation seriously reflecting any complex modern technology.

And this way is to do it on your own and in your free time!

Short of inheritance or winning the lottery to prop your and your family financial needs try to get a steady and possibly not too demanding day job and without any extra external pressure from anybody but yourself start building your dream. I know this from my personal experience, that this way is the safest recipe for success and it works in most situations and circumstances.

It is true that it may take much longer, but it can be done without risk to anyone yourself including. It will work unless YOU change your mind or lose YOUR enthusiasm for the Project and then it is not too much of a big loss ... except for your own free time.

So Good Luck! :Kaleun_Cheers:

Badger343rd

07-10-20, 09:59 AM

Yesterday video gamers are tomorrows simmers.

maslas

07-12-20, 06:48 AM

In today's rather tough market and job environment, there is IMHO only one way to fulfill someone's desire and dream to create simulation seriously reflecting...

... So Good Luck! :Kaleun_Cheers:
Your transmission is 59 to us. Thanks.

Yesterday video gamers are tomorrows simmers.

Agreed, that is why:

a. simulators are not expandable games that are forgotten after a season if they do not become a profitable brand with one or another way.

b. AAA graphics maybe don't mean much on seasoned players like you guys but it will attract the attention of a target group which might be interested in getting a closer look on a submarine (e.g. like when I was a kid and first saw Silent Service) and maybe some of them will find the genre attractive.

Polak2

07-12-20, 09:33 AM

Good simulators are like precious pieces of art. Not always appreciated by contemporaries, but usually remembered and admired in the years which follow.

Good graphics, on the other hand, are like a beauty. They seldom fail to attract immediately, however, one may get used to them rather fast and they never get better with age!

FPSchazly

07-13-20, 07:18 AM

b. AAA graphics maybe don't mean much on seasoned players like you guys but it will attract the attention of a target group which might be interested in getting a closer look on a submarine (e.g. like when I was a kid and first saw Silent Service) and maybe some of them will find the genre attractive.

You may pretty it up! I like having stuff to look at :D

Caseck

07-20-20, 10:30 AM

If you're going to do coop-multi-station type stuff, you should build a lobby system like the old MPLAYER, just a simple lobby so everyone interested in playing can hobnob.

The old SFC series when it ran on MPLAYER was great for that. I wouldn't have ever been involved in that game if not for the great online community, and anything to do with SubSim.com usually has some great people to hang around.

Gives niche games legs when there is a community that comes along with it.

Just a thought.

maslas

07-21-20, 06:21 AM

Capt Jack Harkness

08-03-20, 08:57 PM

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is accessibility.

The classic sub sims had an incredible depth of systems and tactics and assumed you, the player, were already familiar with them when you started. If not, go dig out the 400-page manual and spend the afternoon reading. Needless to say, these sims were not very welcoming to new players.

Doing one's own research should not be discouraged, of course, but new players should be able to learn the basics without resorting to manuals or Youtube tutorials. DCS has interactive tutorials for every aircraft so that players can learn how things work by doing it; anyone curious about why things work can take a peek in the manuals.

Long story short, a new sim like MNW is a great opportunity to grow our community but it will be more successful if it's approachable to people new to the genre. And making it accessible does not mean watering it down for the pros.

maslas

08-03-20, 10:59 PM

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is accessibility... DCS has interactive tutorials for every aircraft so that players can learn how things work by doing it; anyone curious about why things work can take a peek in the manuals...

We have arranged a small campaign with a series of missions that will make the proper introductions to new players on every and each station of the sub. It will be interactive and within a story line.

But manuals cannot be avoided.

Thanks for mentioning :up:

jaop99

08-27-20, 10:05 AM

If the sim will be like Dangerous Waters style, with all the complexity and realism, with MP, multistation, etc, you can count with my help! :Kaleun_Cheers: ah, please include at least one russian submarine/destroyer/corvette in the red side.

These are all reasonable questions guys!
But let me make a proper introduction to our studio first.
We are professionals in the corporate environment both on IT and Software Development sectors with 25years experience.
We are also the creators of the FlatUniverse (https://flatuniverse.maslasbros.com) multiplayer space shooter that is being used as a testbed for many technologies that we are going to use on a project like this (networking, sensors, ai, graphics, data serialization etc).

We are the MaslasBros (https://maslasbros.com) and that is what we propose...

(https://mnw.maslasbros.com) Modern Naval Warfare (https://mnw.maslasbros.com)

:salute:

maslas

08-28-20, 03:07 PM

jaop99

08-31-20, 10:17 AM

Will do thanks! Akula will follow as a DLC if everything goes as planned :D

Great, I have a lot of interested friends. They're not actually playing DW due to the old graphics, and the mess for the MP connection via Tunngle, that's it!

maslas

08-31-20, 11:07 AM

Great, I have a lot of interested friends. They're not actually playing DW due to the old graphics, and the mess for the MP connection via Tunngle, that's it!

Don't worry we got you covered on both :up:

meetnick

09-02-20, 02:47 AM

These are all reasonable questions guys!
But let me make a proper introduction to our studio first.
We are professionals in the corporate environment both on IT and Software Development sectors with 25years experience.
We are also the creators of the FlatUniverse (https://flatuniverse.maslasbros.com) multiplayer space shooter that is being used as a testbed for many technologies that we are going to use on a project like this (networking, sensors, ai, graphics, data serialization etc).

We are the MaslasBros (https://maslasbros.com) and that is what we propose...

(https://mnw.maslasbros.com) Modern Naval Warfare (https://mnw.maslasbros.com)

:salute:

Pardon me for my uninvited input. How about a sub game where new ideas of weapons and ships can be made whereas you can build your own super weapons (like a store) from hit points (up grades) and futuristic ships/subs, something like tom clancy's modern warfare where they have weapons in theory could be real like deploying drones from the sub, deploying drone subs, deploy sound/sonar bouyes, if you sink a sub you can send out seals to recover intel and steel their weapons, you can deploy seals into a port and retrieve seals they bring back secrete weapons deploy them onto ships ect, But you can have allies to trade with, you can command a team of different subs, and jump from one to the other they can go on missions autonomously. But creating new technology would be great like making your sub like a shkval torpedo you can sprint 10 miles or so to get away from an area have a sub that uses pump drive like a jet ski.. well a game where you can build as you go along...

maslas

09-02-20, 08:52 PM

Pardon me for my uninvited input. How about a sub game where new ideas of weapons and ships can be made whereas you can build your own super weapons (like a store) from hit points (up grades) and futuristic ships/subs, something like tom clancy's modern warfare where they have weapons in theory could be real like deploying drones from the sub, deploying drone subs, deploy sound/sonar bouyes, if you sink a sub you can send out seals to recover intel and steel their weapons, you can deploy seals into a port and retrieve seals they bring back secrete weapons deploy them onto ships ect, But you can have allies to trade with, you can command a team of different subs, and jump from one to the other they can go on missions autonomously. But creating new technology would be great like making your sub like a shkval torpedo you can sprint 10 miles or so to get away from an area have a sub that uses pump drive like a jet ski.. well a game where you can build as you go along...

Pardon me for my uninvited input...

Welcome, there's no need for special invitations on this thread. :yeah:
Just speak your mind...

How about a sub game where new ideas of weapons and ships can be made whereas...
That sounds fantastic as an idea for, just as you proposed, a "UBI" Tom Clancy's game product. We would seriously consider it if we were aiming for a science fiction product. Down to earth but still science fiction.
Personally, I strongly believe that the market misses a classic modern sub simulator right now and this is what we are proposing.
Beyond that barrier, I like your thoughts and ideas and thanks for giving your time on expressing them because you never know what the future brings.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

maslas

09-09-20, 02:13 PM

Things are moving forward to our development and the team allowed me to give you this little gift. :D

MNW...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/753330003810189422/sonar.jpg?width=917&height=516

...vs Reality

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/753330145691173004/sonar-real.jpg?width=723&height=516

stormrider_sp

09-13-20, 06:51 AM

Oh yes!
Will it be another external 3d view, or our old favorite "cockpit view" submarine game? Will it support VR?

maslas

09-14-20, 01:07 AM

Oh yes!
Will it be another external 3d view, or our old favorite "cockpit view" submarine game? Will it support VR?

No external 3d views, this is a real simulator. You will be a able to see outside from periscopes(optronic masts) or from the watch.

We have the knowledge and our game engine can support VR but we do not think it is a good feature gameplay wise for the genre except on some very specific situations maybe.
For the time being the answer is negative.

Badger343rd

09-14-20, 09:29 AM

No external 3d views, this is a real simulator. You will be a able to see outside from periscopes(optronic masts) or from the watch.

We have the knowledge and our game engine can support VR but we do not think it is a good feature gameplay wise for the genre except on some very specific situations maybe.
For the time being the answer is negative.

I think you need to have both views

stormrider_sp

09-14-20, 10:45 AM

jaop99

09-15-20, 11:55 AM

The pics and render looks amazing! good job guys!

stormrider_sp

09-19-20, 03:40 AM

jaop99

09-22-20, 10:00 AM

How are you guys going to implement the sonar modeling?

Have you thought about using new technologies like ray tracing?
http://liu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1352170/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Or perhaps open source underwater acoustics models. I remember studying a paper on this a few years ago.

Edit: https://oalib-acoustics.org/Rays/USML/usml_frontpage.html

I think they should hire Jive Turkey, is was a sonarman in a real sub and knows a lot about that!, using declassified info of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HIyW4PC8vo

maslas

09-28-20, 01:38 PM

I think you need to have both views

This is under consideration with the idea that the external view of the opponent will only show the predicted position and not the real one...

and that on lower realism setting.

The pics and render looks amazing! good job guys!

Thank you very much!

How are you guys going to implement the sonar modeling?

Have you thought about using new technologies like ray tracing?
http://liu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1352170/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Or perhaps open source underwater acoustics models. I remember studying a paper on this a few years ago.

Edit: https://oalib-acoustics.org/Rays/USML/usml_frontpage.html

As we have stated in the past, sound propagation is one of the most demanding features on this project. We've seen this library that is using one ray-tracing algorithm and although it is written in C++, we have serious doubts about it's performance since in our situation we are dealing with many real-time factors.
For the same matter we are investigating two roads one of the two is ray-tracing but powered by the GPU. But please keep in mind that the point on a good simulator is an authentic feeling and result and not just an interesting technology behind it.

We walk carefully on this matter.

I think they should hire Jive Turkey, is was a sonarman in a real sub and knows a lot about that!, using declassified info of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HIyW4PC8vo

Of course we have watched all of his videos, he is doing a very interesting job and when things will become a little more clear on how this project will actually progress we are aiming to get in contact with him. :up:

Badger343rd

09-28-20, 05:27 PM

maslas

10-05-20, 01:30 AM

This needs clarification, I'm thinking in terms of what you would see in Dangerous Waters or DCS. It's more of a cinemagraphic context.similar to what we see in the Silent Hunter series not the Tactical in cold Waters.People like to admire their own ship or look at the enemy vessel.I think you understand what I'm talking about.A weapon to target view is the money shot in sim's as well.The external view in Cold Waters is greatly appreciated for ambiance(I use the muddy water mod so its not a tactical crutch)

Well we have some features regarding the ambience and movie like tecno-thriller feeling that trust me it will make you very happy :)
And I am not talking about the screenshots that follow. They are just a small development gift.

Reality...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/762554466464694332/pilot-real.jpg?width=758&height=502

... MNW

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/762554533452447774/pilot.jpg?width=892&height=502

jaop99

10-06-20, 11:24 AM

Terrific!!!, what are you using UNREAL ENGINE 4? Unity?

I prefer UE4, the new contract is better than the old one, you start to pay only 5% when reach 1 million USD sold.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Badger343rd

10-06-20, 12:47 PM

Well we have some features regarding the ambience and movie like tecno-thriller feeling that trust me it will make you very happy :)

How about showing us an example of this???

maslas

10-18-20, 01:12 AM

Terrific!!!, what are you using UNREAL ENGINE 4? Unity?

I prefer UE4, the new contract is better than the old one, you start to pay only 5% when reach 1 million USD sold.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Thanks :)

This project is not built collectively on one framework(game engine) and that happens on purpose. Various frameworks are used for different purposes (rendering, networking, physics, UI etc.)

The current version is using unity for real-time rendering but that is a subject that might change in the versions to come.

Yes I agree, the new UE4 terms seem better than the old one.

How about showing us an example of this???

Many external views with realtime action sequences are going to be used.
How about that?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/767269275928363028/cut1.jpg?width=916&height=516

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UglyMowgli

10-21-20, 02:03 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6E64zdE7w&ab_channel=FPSchazly

FPSchazly

10-21-20, 02:47 PM

Thank you for posting it here! Isn't this awesome? So excited for it! :up:

Elphaba

10-21-20, 08:04 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6E64zdE7w&ab_channel=FPSchazly

This looks amazing. Instant purchase from me and I’m so happy they included women in the game. I can’t wait to buy this. Thank you for bringing this to our attention!

:Kaleun_Salute::Kaleun_Cheers::Kaleun_Applaud:

PS please support macOS too and maybe even screens (map?) on a network connected iPad!

FPSchazly

10-22-20, 09:03 AM

Elphaba

10-22-20, 09:05 AM

You're welcome! I'm just trying to help them spread the word :yeah:

They are definitely going to try for MacOS support and are planning for station displays on mobile devices and a web app!

<faints in excitement>

Badger343rd

10-24-20, 11:21 AM

Its a good concept...voice acting needs work though.You gotta get that right.
I'm excited for this title,but more for the Akula...can you show some of that?or is it still too early?
Just a suggestion but I would like to see a more thematic control interface...looks too bland(the ones that take you to the control stations,not the stations themselves)

maslas

10-26-20, 02:28 AM

This looks amazing. Instant purchase from me and I’m so happy they included women in the game. I can’t wait to buy this. Thank you for bringing this to our attention!

:Kaleun_Salute::Kaleun_Cheers::Kaleun_Applaud:

PS please support macOS too and maybe even screens (map?) on a network connected iPad!

:salute:

Its a good concept...voice acting needs work though.You gotta get that right.
I'm excited for this title,but more for the Akula...can you show some of that?or is it still too early?
Just a suggestion but I would like to see a more thematic control interface...looks too bland(the ones that take you to the control stations,not the stations themselves)

Glad you liked it...

Everything you hear and see is just a proof of concept. You are right voice acting is not going to be this.
The Akula will follow as a DLC.
Yes the UI will be more thematic you can count on that.:)

Badger343rd

10-26-20, 09:59 AM

I really hope the dlc will be available upon release...

Elphaba

10-26-20, 10:04 AM

Great, I have a lot of interested friends. They're not actually playing DW due to the old graphics, and the mess for the MP connection via Tunngle, that's it!

I understand not playing MP because it's a headache, but to not play a great game because the graphics aren't all shiny really strikes me of entitlement and a really churlish reason not to play.

I've watched FPShazly play DW in MP and after the headaches are sorted, it's still an amazing experience. Certainly something to keep us entertained until MNW is released.

UglyMowgli

11-07-20, 02:47 PM

The planned stations (from the discord channel):

pilot,
sonar (narrowband, broadband, lofar, demon etc.),
nav,
radar,
radio,
photonics,
tma,
fire control,
esm,
tlam mission planner

We are also considering to create the skipper's quarters for crew management and there is going to be an external watch too.

Pirate

11-13-20, 05:44 PM

What? No Sail/Bridge station!?

I want to smell the ocean and get some vitamin D!

Elphaba

11-13-20, 05:51 PM

I really hope the dlc will be available upon release...

What happened to buying a game for what it is... not what you hope it could be on top?

Onkel Neal

11-13-20, 06:39 PM

Why not both?

meetnick

11-14-20, 04:09 AM

Since we are at the time of drones, that can even stay in the air for a very long time, and have sensors of various types, I can see a modern submarine having a drone that can be launched and go to the surface and then take off to reach a high altitude to do areal recon, and also one that can run quiet and go ahead of the submarine to survey mine fields and map them or the sea route, and or search for submarines without giving away the mothers subs location, is there one mod of this nature some one can make????

meetnick

11-14-20, 04:13 AM

I heard that Steel Shark was either working on or had a mod for cold waters that adds more advanced weapons and counter measures does anyone know it this mod exist, and where I can get it, if so how to install it and or a video or training mission to learn how to use them??? Please reply. Thks.

meetnick

11-14-20, 04:25 AM

meetnick

11-14-20, 04:34 AM

It would be a good idea if there could be secrete missions for a sea wolf sub to go and rescue submarine crews trapped inside submarines and you have a mini rescue sub that you launch, you have a certain time to get there and rescue them with other enemy ships and subs looking for it that might be responsible for sinking it where as you might have to take them out (before the time is up) or take a chance and try and sneak in to rescue them... the mini sub might have to make several trips also.:Kaleun_Applaud::Kaleun_Wink:

UglyMowgli

11-14-20, 01:33 PM

I hear there is a demo of the game modern naval warfare, is this demo available for download to try? And can it be made to walk through the sub to say play basket ball and check out the reactor ect, if it were that way, that would be cool because a contact could have snuck up on you out of no where like an enemy sub that was tracking you in the baffles and fire on you to catch you by surprise,,,, that is an idea at the least in this time and age submarines are sometimes quiet and can be tracking you so the game should have that feature it would make it very interesting... keep you on your toes.

There is no demo. There is a technical piece of software pre-pre-alpha for the investor/producers to show them the concepts of the sim (how it will work, how will be the graphics , ...) and it is not for public release.
If there is a demo it will be in one year or more. The sim is not even a newborn.

No walk around and the reactor don't even think about it. Have you ever see an image of a US nuclear submarine? NO because it's is classified. even the SSN-571 witch is a museum you can't see the reactor room.

Kapitan

11-14-20, 10:25 PM

Not an American Reactor but heres a Russian one it an OK-650B from TK12 a project 941 Akula (NATO Typhoon)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/33161435098/in/album-72157704769063054/

banryu79

11-27-20, 06:33 AM

I want FPSChalzy voice as the sonar guy on my boat! :D

Awsome project, the tech demo looks very impressive, and the whole things is promising, I can't wait for it!
:Kaleun_Salute:

SatThuVoBui

11-28-20, 02:17 AM

Onkel Neal

11-28-20, 01:08 PM

I want FPSChalzy voice as the sonar guy on my boat! :D

Awsome project, the tech demo looks very impressive, and the whole things is promising, I can't wait for it!
:Kaleun_Salute:

He is one of the guys in Cold Waters :)

BENICK

11-28-20, 04:12 PM

Hi Dimitri
Glad (and proud of course) that Greek Sub Simulator is on the horizon.
We are awaiting your feedback on the progress and estimated release time.
Trust you will consider some scenarios in Aegean and East Med.
Carry on with your team Mates.

Heinrich Liebe

11-30-20, 04:17 PM

This sounds so good. I would spent my last cent for this game :yeah:

:Kaleun_Cheers:

maslas

11-30-20, 11:42 PM

Maslas, the most simple way I can say it is this:

If you ACTUALLY manage to pull off a modern SSN submarine simulation that at least matches SH5 + TWOS levels of realism or greater, then I will personally buy 3+4 copies and gift them to my friends and spend HOURS on your game easily!

Good luck! :Kaleun_Salute:

Aye Captain :Kaleun_Salute:

I want FPSChalzy voice as the sonar guy on my boat! :D

Awsome project, the tech demo looks very impressive, and the whole things is promising, I can't wait for it!
:Kaleun_Salute:

He is one of the guys in Cold Waters :)

That is correct.

Hi Dimitri
Glad (and proud of course) that Greek Sub Simulator is on the horizon.
We are awaiting your feedback on the progress and estimated release time.
Trust you will consider some scenarios in Aegean and East Med.
Carry on with your team Mates.

Hey! Thank you! We were planning as an initial war theater the Mediterranean Sea but after a survey we did, South China Sea came in first.
Mediterranean will have to come later as DLC together with a proper campaign. But that is not bad from a point of view because by then and if everything goes well we will have published Type 214 too :up:

This sounds so good. I would spent my last cent for this game :yeah:

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Thank you. We would gladly take it :haha:

I'd like to say a big THANK YOU to all of you to whom I didn't have the time to respond in person. :Kaleun_Cheers:

chevelle505

12-07-20, 02:51 AM

No external 3d views

Hate to say it but that’s a deal breaker for me, which is a HUGE let down as this sim looks absolutely stunning!!!! Interior looks amazing just wish if someone was going to make a simulator, they would simulate the sub!! Crew quarters, mess hall etc. at least a few rooms to walk through adds sooo much to the immersion!!

Personal opinion, what I’ve been hoping someone would make is basically a true simulator that isn’t just a blow em up game, but can actually allow you to simulate life on a submarine, just operating the sub could be simulated with such immersion! The closest that anyone has come in my opinion is “UBOAT” on steam. If I could have that, but in a modern nuclear attack sub, I’d be all in. The ability to travel to different ports across the globe, The ability to free roam and just explore the oceans and explore the sub a bit, crew management etc, a true SIMULATOR. Cold waters to me is nothing more than an arcade game with good graphics. Hopefully, if not this sim, someone will actually focus on making a true “simulator”. There’s alot more to running a submarine then just blowing stuff up. I can almost guarantee I’m alone in this here, but If you don’t want an outside 3D view of your sub, then don’t use it, but at least grant the option for those who do.

At any rate, it looks great, just hope it’s a true sim and not just another game.

zachanscom

12-08-20, 02:10 AM

i've been waiting 2 decades for a true modern sub sim in the vein of silent hunter and i think this is it. my suggestion is to focus on core mechanics first. i see people talking about animated crew walking around and such, but even the silent hunter games did not have this feature, don't sweat it. those things can be added later. you guys truly came out of nowhere to build a dream game for a lot of people. where'd you guys come from and how did you make such a handsome prototype so soon?

chevelle505

12-08-20, 07:02 PM

banryu79

12-09-20, 10:43 AM

He is one of the guys in Cold Waters :)
I know Onkel Neal, and I enjoyed his voice in CW and now I want more! Ahaha!
:Kaleun_Salute:

zachanscom

12-24-20, 02:47 PM

I agree, I just hope they expand the subs interior enough to be able to “walk around” to a few compartments, even something as simple as a free camera inside and outside the sub, different ports to dock at, and a free roam mode where you can go explore the polar ice caps if you want, or run from the pacific down around and out into the Atlantic. I just want the basic free roam ability’s to command a modern nuclear submarine to start with. That’s what Iove about UBOAT, instead of always being forced to engage in battles like an arcade game, you can just sail around and explore if you wish and focus on crew and sub management. If this turns out to allow you to do that it will be quite literally a dream come true for me!!

yeah that's what i liked about silent hunter 3, especially its weather systems and the wave simulations. it was pretty ahead of its time how immersive and realistic they were able to make it. i hope we are able to just sail and navigate. hopefully there is a conning tower view like in silent hunter 3 for when you want to experience rough seas i heard there is an external view it just won't be helpful for gameplay, which is understandable, but i really do enjoy the detail they put on the models. especially from the trailer where the akula had all these plating, nubs, and 3 dimensional details on the hull. in cold waters they had normal mapping for these features, but it's not the same when it's flat, you can tell the difference. i always thought cold waters could have used more detail and rounded out the subs a lot more. i think modern pcs could get away with it. i much prefer some of the larger details be rendered 3 dimensionally with the smaller details being normal mapped. with modern cpu and gpu technology, i doubt it's much of a big problem. in fact i think we should push for even greater fidelity as most mid range pcs should have no difficulty

ljqcn101

12-27-20, 04:54 AM

Maslas, the most simple way I can say it is this:

If you ACTUALLY manage to pull off a modern SSN submarine simulation that at least matches SH5 + TWOS levels of realism or greater, then I will personally buy 3+4 copies and gift them to my friends and spend HOURS on your game easily!

Good luck! :Kaleun_Salute:

I'd say DW / Sub Command / Jane's 688i levels of realism or greater, since you'll be spending most of your time staying deep underwater and playing with passive sonar / towed array / demon display / manual TMA. The level of details in ocean acoustic environment simulation, weapon system and sensor modelling really matters here, more so than just periscope, TDC, weather and wave simulations in Silent Hunter series.

As for previously mentioned external view, honestly I couldn't care less about it and other eye candy things like conning tower for a hardcore simulator. It would be a plus or good to have thing but certainly less priority than acoustic environment, weapon and sensor modelling.

Also for the devs, would there be Maneuvering Board included at the nav station so we can do some proper plotting using real life techniques?

UglyMowgli

12-27-20, 01:42 PM

3D models will have some importance in the sim, for missions where you have to sneak under the hull of a ship/subs to take photos of his propeller, sonar , SOKS, .... or to watch the launch of a new weapons (missiles for example). And maybe hide under the hull of a cargo ship to avoid detection to enter an harbor to deliver a SpecOps team

Even to surface to MedEvac a sick crewmen by helicopter.

Who known? The devs are tightlips.:hmmm:

NeoDude

01-01-21, 07:40 AM

This looks amazing! Count me in as a buyer as soon as it's available.

Do your plans only cover SSNs at the moment? Any plans for accurate simulation of SSBN ops?

Also, really hoping that we can get away from this "Scenario" based warfare like in CW and DW. Would be awesome if we could actually have full control from port. I realise that this would mean you wouldn't be doing much 99% of the time, but hey, that's realism for you. Perhaps a few aggressive time warp options could help with this?

UglyMowgli

01-01-21, 12:43 PM

SSBN, the most boring boat in the world. Doing a racetrack a 2-3knots for 90 days, at a certain depth, then coming back home.

So exciting that everybody will fall asleep on their keyboard after few hours.

NeoDude

01-01-21, 02:13 PM

UglyMowgli

01-02-21, 02:14 PM

You known movies and reality are set in a totally different Universe.

I am afraid to tell you Superman doesn't exist :yeah:

SKIPPER80

01-02-21, 07:38 PM

any possible to see more immersive interior environment like uboat? Not all sub, just some legend one.

UglyMowgli

01-02-21, 10:04 PM

Too much work for what? Moving from point A to B and back.

And if the devs want to do that one day maybe they need real blueprints.

You can have them easily for the old German subs but for any modern ship/boat from USA,Russian, Chinese and other countries if a little difficult to say so.

If you known someone you can share them for free, please let them known :03:

zachanscom

01-03-21, 12:13 AM

those boring parts are what time compression is for, and the silent hunter games had them too. uboat sims have been done to death. patrol>contact>periscope depth>sink ship>rinse and repeat. see i can make it sound tedious too. modern sims are far more engaging considering their much greater versatility. if done right, this will blow the silent hunter franchise away and become the new sub sim staple and you'll have to deal with a new slew of modern sub sims while all uboat sims fade into obscurity haha

Dahoon

01-23-21, 07:34 AM

Oh wow, I haven't posted on here for ages. Almost thought myself lost at sea. But this looks amazing. Most def. another buyer here :yeah:

Since we are at the time of drones, that can even stay in the air for a very long time, and have sensors of various types, I can see a modern submarine having a drone that can be launched and go to the surface and then take off to reach a high altitude to do areal recon, and also one that can run quiet and go ahead of the submarine to survey mine fields and map them or the sea route, and or search for submarines without giving away the mothers subs location, is there one mod of this nature some one can make????

Many, like the Swedish A26, have advanced drones (UUV) that can operate as recon, decoy, etc. So why not :salute:

UglyMowgli

01-23-21, 06:18 PM

Drones (UAV, SLUAS, ...) will be there but i don't think at the lauch of the first opus.

Someone asked on the discord channel about UAV, ...

Here the answer of the other Maslas brothers (Kyrgiannis):

We want to add all kinds of drones (uas, ucav, usv). But before we add anything we need to have some hard data about it. Currently SLUAS are still in concept phase.
So the answer is not yet.

Badger343rd

03-14-21, 10:37 AM

Hmmm...their website is down...

maslas

03-14-21, 03:29 PM

Hmmm...their website is down...

Something went wrong with our hosting provider and some of our pages are down... we are investigating the problem with them.

I am sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for mentioning :up:

maslas

03-16-21, 01:43 AM

As of now the MNW site is up and running again. There was a problem on some missing libraries after an unscheduled upgrade that the host made on their servers.
We are sorry for the inconvenience and thank you again for letting us know.

Cheers :Kaleun_Cheers:

PolarisEsp

03-21-21, 05:42 AM

maslas

03-22-21, 12:29 PM

: Kaleun_Salute:

Is there any way to support you financially, the game seems quite interesting as soon as it comes out I'll buy it ...
But I know that people in particular like those who created the cras dive are small or even a single person in the team, so I would be interested in making you perhaps a donation.

Thank you for your kind proposition. The project is fully funded at the moment and it has become our studio's main project. We are giving our best efforts to bring MNW into fruition.
It is a great challenge so far but we are confident that a beautiful result will come out of it.

Cheers,

:Kaleun_Cheers:

snak3gam3r!

04-06-21, 06:36 PM

Thank you for your kind proposition. The project is fully funded at the moment and it has become our studio's main project. We are giving our best efforts to bring MNW into fruition.
It is a great challenge so far but we are confident that a beautiful result will come out of it.

Cheers,

:Kaleun_Cheers:

I know it doesn’t make sense what I’m going to say, but if I had the money, I would definitely finance your project. The game looks OUTSTANDING and it has a SOMA vibe..

maslas

04-07-21, 12:27 AM

I know it doesn’t make sense what I’m going to say, but if I had the money, I would definitely finance your project. The game looks OUTSTANDING and it has a SOMA vibe..

Well, you might not being able to help on the process of its development but you can definitely help for its future. At the day of release...

Just buy it :D

Torpex77

04-09-21, 01:43 PM

Definite Purchaser here!

UglyMowgli

05-07-21, 12:47 AM

Leaked image from an internal source :D

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/839888301229080626/Underwater2.PNG?width=1057&height=594

zachanscom

05-16-21, 01:13 AM

serious? man that looks a scene from a cgi trailer or something. those lines...those details. cold waters never had those very much looking forward to this becoming the dcs of subsims.

UglyMowgli

05-17-21, 11:56 AM

But no external view in MP only in solo and it will only show what you think you have detected (range, type, ...) so no torpedo evasion like in CW.

itsjero

08-06-21, 12:26 PM

I love cold waters and have posted a few ideas for a cold waters 2 or game similar to that.

The trailer looks cool even thought its just a small teaser. The subs looked great as well, and i love the small details ( really for any game its all in the details ) of the russian sub, including the tiny little detail that some might have missed but i saw as the russian sub passed.. the SOKS pointers at the top of the sail.

Very nice.

I hope, as im sure a lot of others do, that this game continues to be built and gives us yet another sub game as the genre is wide open. Cold Waters surely showed the community, as well as devs, that there is a market for this game.

I hope it follows on those lines that cold waters drew, and just goes above and beyond that. So many ideas out there, and the genre needs more games that have current, or even a bit of future, subs and weapons.

I for one would be one of the first in line to plop down some cash for a great game with current subs.

So please, continue and just know there are many of us out there that want a game with current subs and weapons.

As much as i love pretty much any sub game, i simply wasnt alive when ww2 happened or even close to it. So the old subs just dont interest me as much as new subs do. Plus, i want kick ass new subs with the best latest and greatest hardware and tech, along with the weapons they sport. Also, include some SLBM missions with good effects of the nukes they carry.

Nuclear missions and or weapons in any game seems to be taboo including any sort of animations for the explosions. I just ask that you give us some missions that include either stopping a launch and if you fail, you lose a base or a part of your operational area, and then gives us a retaliatory mission. And, on the flip side, allow us the first nuke deployment, and then a retaliatory strike we can go against and lose/win as well. Seeing the mushroom clouds from a distance would be cool.

Along those lines, potentially a status-6 mission or nuclear torpedo or nuclear cruise / anti ship missile we can use as well. Dont have to go full like 500kt or 50 megatons, even thought that would be cool, but tactical nukes would suffice.

Its a real weapon, in the real world, and these are games that are reality, so i hope some dev house out there will include in any game using modern day ships and subs the ability to use these weapons or defend against them, and really, both.

Thanks for being a sub game dev and i wish you all the best. Hopefully you can bring a game to market that is like cold waters, but puts whatever spin on it you have, and just takes that game and makes a game better than that. Its a good bar to start at, and hopefully, go far above.

UglyMowgli

08-10-21, 06:53 PM

No nuke as a weapon, the devs have pondered their use and so far is a no.
Remember MNW is a simulator not an arcadish game like CW.

But rest reassured, they will include missions where you will track the rogue nuke and save the World.

Polak2

08-10-21, 09:03 PM

Remember MNW is a simulator not an arcadish game like CW.

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Kpt. Weyprecht

08-21-21, 11:06 AM

milky

09-19-21, 11:34 PM

You guys need to get in touch with Sub Brief. He does Twitch streaming and plays nothing but Submarine simulators and was an actual submariner during the 90s I believe. He helps devs out all the time with information and critique when they develop mods for Cold Waters.

maslas

09-20-21, 01:23 AM

With some delay, I have to say I love this project and I really hope it succeeds. I never really thought full 3D interior was a viable way to go but then, if it works, that's awesome! And since the first submarine sim I really played was Sub Command, then Dangerous Waters, I'd love to see a successor.

So, aside from saying that it would definitely be a "first-day purchase" for me, there is a (micro) feature I don't think anybody commented but I really like it. Did you guys notice the nav chart display? Finally, there are fathom lines and soundings! I've always been frustrated with Silent Hunter's unreadable mavmap with an unclear color code and no soundings. Never really liked SubCommand/DW's electronic-looking map.

This may seem minor but I love the look of actual sea charts and I think it's really important for immersion.

Good luck guys!

We are glad you liked it. We are doing our best to give the most immersive experience to the players.

You guys need to get in touch with Sub Brief. He does Twitch streaming and plays nothing but Submarine simulators and was an actual submariner during the 90s I believe. He helps devs out all the time with information and critique when they develop mods for Cold Waters.

We know all about Aaron Amick. When the time comes we will contact with him.

Thank you both for your interest and kind words guys. :up:

Cheers,
:Kaleun_Cheers:

Blacklight

09-20-21, 05:46 PM

I really hope that this game succeeds. I think we've all been waiting WAY TOO LONG for the next, "Dangerous Waters". Seriously. Where are all the modern times based, indy subsims at? Why are 99% of the sims WWII Uboat sims? Modern subsim stuff is such an untapped area that has so much potential! I really do hope that this subsim succeeds so much. From what it looks like, this is what I've been looking for for YEARS.

kpv1974

09-24-21, 01:47 PM

>> I really hope that this game succeeds. I think we've all been waiting WAY TOO LONG for the next, "Dangerous Waters". Seriously. Where are all the modern times based, indy subsims at? Why are 99% of the sims WWII Uboat sims? Modern subsim stuff is such an untapped area that has so much potential! I really do hope that this subsim succeeds so much. From what it looks like, this is what I've been looking for for YEARS.

I would not be so optimistic :k_confused:

UglyMowgli

09-24-21, 08:31 PM

Well WW II sims are "easier" to code and develop since there is tons of documentation, reports, blueprints,....

Serious modern sub sims have to deal with a void of information and rely only on open source documents with all the variations on the data. And the Silent Service is loudly silent so the devs have to speculate on almost everything, except maybe the color of the CO chair.

Julhelm

09-27-21, 02:25 AM

Actually it's because the prevailing perception is that 'WW2: Guaranteed sale' whereas Cold War, modern day is seen as abstract and scary. I had to pitch very hard, for years, the concept that ended up becoming Cold Waters.

skin-nl

10-04-21, 01:47 PM

@Maslas

Will there be a physical release with a big user guide? :D

The game looks very awesome...definitely a must buy for me :up:

UglyMowgli

10-04-21, 05:06 PM

Big one like the one we used to have with Microprose in the 90's? No.

User guides are just a big waste of paper , describing the menus, buttons, screens, .... but never the howto and more importantly the why to use them in a given situation.

I think some will wrote a good tactical guide with missions to play to learn the ropes of the game in depth.

maslas

10-04-21, 10:48 PM

@Maslas

Will there be a physical release with a big user guide? :D

The game looks very awesome...definitely a must buy for me :up:

Since we are old timers like others in this forum, seeing MNW on a printed version "even a limited one" is like a dream to come true. Getting a hard copy in hand and waiting to check out the contents inside it was the real magic, even the printed label of the floppies was cool to see.

But believe it or not, the decision to a printable version of MNW means a delay in the release from 1 to 6 months depending on various reasons (the size of the book is one of the many).
Furthermore, the publisher might take the initiative to create a printed limited edition after release only if he is absolutely sure that a specific amount of copies are sold for sure else the initiative won't be profitable to him.

Is there a way to make a poll on this thread?

Should a MNW printed version be released?

a. I don't care about papers and boxes just give MNW to the people.
b. If there is a printed version in the day of release I might buy it.
c. I would definitely wait for the additional days for the printed release.
d. Are you serious, I would buy limited edition even a year after release.

UglyMowgli

10-04-21, 11:09 PM

a)

Save the trees. I am a treehugger.

http://images.teamhusar.com/MA/LG/BB/MA-LG-BB-0634-00166-00250.jpg

FPSchazly

10-05-21, 12:03 PM

Since we are old timers like others in this forum, seeing MNW on a printed version "even a limited one" is like a dream to come true. Getting a hard copy in hand and waiting to check out the contents inside it was the real magic, even the printed label of the floppies was cool to see.

But believe it or not, the decision to a printable version of MNW means a delay in the release from 1 to 6 months depending on various reasons (the size of the book is one of the many).
Furthermore, the publisher might take the initiative to create a printed limited edition after release only if he is absolutely sure that a specific amount of copies are sold for sure else the initiative won't be profitable to him.

Is there a way to make a poll on this thread?

Should a MNW printed version be released?

a. I don't care about papers and boxes just give MNW to the people.
b. If there is a printed version in the day of release I might buy it.
c. I would definitely wait for the additional days for the printed release.
d. Are you serious, I would buy limited edition even a year after release.

You have to make a new thread for the poll :D

maslas

10-05-21, 01:18 PM

You have to make a new thread for the poll :D

Done...

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2772721&postcount=1

Good idea!

:Kaleun_Cheers:

skin-nl

10-06-21, 03:04 PM

But believe it or not, the decision to a printable version of MNW means a delay in the release from 1 to 6 months depending on various reasons (the size of the book is one of the many).
Furthermore, the publisher might take the initiative to create a printed limited edition after release only if he is absolutely sure that a specific amount of copies are sold for sure else the initiative won't be profitable to him.

Thanks Maslas for the reply

We need no delay :03:
But a printed limited edition after release would be nice :salute:

crestofawave

12-21-21, 06:47 AM

zachanscom

01-20-22, 02:04 PM

very late i guess to this party, but this looks really good, a more up to date/epic mods cold waters :)
look forward to this a will deff buy, where will you market it? steam/gog etc
price point? and any more info on how its coming on?

price point irrelevant. i will plop down 100 usd right now for early access and so will many others. cold waters cannot compare, it's more of an updated smart phone game. this is more like a pc sim built from the ground up. we have not seen this even attempted in 20+ years.

UglyMowgli

01-20-22, 03:52 PM

No early access.
This is a hardcore sim with different accessibility level from the veteran submariner to the little 10 years old Kevin who dream to be the CO of the next gen submarine

Felipius

07-28-22, 02:32 AM

Another customer here.
Looking forward to see the sim running on my pc...

Fearless

07-28-22, 03:40 AM

Yes, Bring it on already..:Kaleun_Cheers:

captrem

08-02-22, 11:08 AM

Can’t believe I only found out today about MNW!! Just watched the trailer and I am very excited, looking forward to have as much fun as I had with Subcommand years ago.

Aktungbby

08-02-22, 06:51 PM

Captrem!:Kaleun_Salute: on the surface after an 8 year "silent run"!:up:

Tsunami24

12-26-22, 08:45 AM

has there been new info released about the game? Do they have a website or something?

Aktungbby

12-26-22, 02:21 PM

Tsunami24!:Kaleun_Salute:...after a 2 year 'silent run'!:up:

maslas

12-27-22, 04:23 AM

Hello everybody,

Thank you for your great interest regarding the progress of MNW.:up:

The project is progressing steadily and with some great results too. We are very happy and proud with our work so far. Recently the team expanded a little more since a new member has recently joined us too.:D
Yes, MNW has its own landing page (https://mnw.maslasbros.com/) and from there you can find links to various other sources and services.
Recently, the 2nd issue of the Dev-Log (https://www.matrixgames.com/news/modern-naval-warfare-navy-log-book-2) was published with a pretty much enlightening article regarding physics.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717596639371591741/1057227842716434512/weather3.JPG

We believe that 2023 is going to be an exciting year for MNW and we wish you a Happy New Year!

Cheers,
The MNW team.
:Kaleun_Cheers:

UglyMowgli

12-28-22, 02:24 AM

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717596639371591741/1057227842431242341/weather2.JPG

Onkel Neal

12-31-22, 06:30 PM

Looks really good.

kozel1

01-01-23, 10:13 AM

Happy New Year all!
I can't wait for this game, thanks devs!

zachanscom

01-01-23, 05:26 PM

looks amazing, those waves are the best i've seen in any game since silent hunter 3, congratulations of the progress and success. hope to see more soon.

UglyMowgli

01-12-23, 11:23 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7JpyU5NPw

Onkel Neal

01-12-23, 08:58 PM

Very cool, thanks Mowgli :Kaleun_Salute:

jaop99

01-18-23, 10:50 AM

Love that thing, I will buy anyway, but I hope to see at least one Russian sub there in the future.

zachanscom

04-09-23, 11:52 AM

Love that thing, I will buy anyway, but I hope to see at least one Russian sub there in the future.

cosign this request. i'm not sure about what kind of access or documentation they can get, but i hope to pilot akula 3 the lines are so beautiful https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/INS_Chakra.jpg

UglyMowgli

04-10-23, 11:54 AM

Here a quote from Kyrgiannis about playable Russian submarines:

"I assume you ask about playable submarines (non-playables will be there from release).

We would like to add a whole series of Russian (and ex-USSR) subs like Pr. 971 Shchucka-B (Akula), Pr. 885 Yasen, Pr. 877 and Pr. 636 (the Kilos) and the all time Russian favorite Pr. 949 and Pr. 949A (the Oscars). However it will all depend on two factors:

1. How well the initial version will sell.

2. How much info we can get on these subs. It is a lot easier for us to get information on the brand new Block 3 Virginia than on the almost 40 years old Pr.971 (which is my favorite)."

Fearless

04-23-23, 09:03 PM

So looking forward to this..

UglyMowgli

04-26-23, 07:04 PM

The devs will showcase MNW Pro VR at the Combined Naval Event 2023 at Farnborough from May 23 to 25.
An exhibition reserved for the professional.

UglyMowgli

05-07-23, 11:56 AM

A video in greek so watch it for the interesting 3D terrain tools and some of the stations at the end.

Credit to Felipus one of the MNW Discord channel member for the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYDvj1nKEp4&t=4688s

Felipius

05-08-23, 05:05 PM

UglyMowgli

01-29-24, 09:38 PM

Few news from last week It's Team Time.

https://www.youtube.com/live/e6FHG2F10Jk?si=RHXbayenyGj62Vx2&t=675

Onkel Neal

01-30-24, 07:37 PM

Thanks for the update.