Nature repairs when Humans are not around

[Platapus]

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/more-leatherback-turtles-on-florida-and-thailand-beaches/


Beaches See Huge Increase in Leatherback Sea Turtle Nests After Travel Restrictions in Florida and Thailand


From fish returning to the Venice canals to deer in the streets of London, many of the shelter-in-place orders and lockdowns resulting from the coronavirus spread have allowed for nature to come back in some of the least-likely places.


Thailand is the latest nation to make headlines from the phenomenon, after the Thai government placed a ban on international flights and a strong encouragement to stay at home.


Though the coronavirus has shut down Thailand’s tourism economy, a season of peace and salvation for rare leatherback sea turtles has emerged. Endangered in this area of Southeast Asia, they are nesting here for the first time in five years.


The largest of all living turtles, the leatherbacks have made 11 nests on Thai beaches this spring—more than at any time during the last two decades.




“This is a very good sign for us because turtles have a high risk of getting killed by fishing gear and humans disturbing the beach,” the director of the Phuket Marine Biological Centre told The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-lockdown-boosts-numbers-of-thailands-rare-sea-turtles).


In Florida, too, the number of leatherback sea turtle nests have skyrocketed compared to last year.
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Leatherback-Turtle-Nest-CC-Elise-Peterson-via-Wikipedia-Commons-1024x639.jpgFile photo by Elisa Peterson, CC Juno Beach is the most densely nested sea turtle beach in the entire world, with an estimated 21,000 nests last year from various species.
Only 2 weeks into the summer nesting season of 2020, staff at the Loggerhead Marine Life Center have found and marked 76 nesting sites for the leatherback—a “significant increase” over last year’s count along the 9 and ½ mile beach.


With no dogs or people walking over nests and exposing eggs, there’s a good chance the eggs will survive the 60 days until hatch day.



“Our leatherbacks are coming in strong this year. We’re excited to see our turtles thrive in this environment,” Sarah Hirsch told West Palm Beach’s WPEC-TV news (https://cbs12.com/news/local/experts-say-coronavirus-concerns-could-have-positive-impact-on-marine-life).
“Our world has changed, but these turtles have been doing this for millions of years and it’s just reassuring and gives us hope that the world is still going on.”


By the end of the nesting season, if the increased numbers continue, it could provide a valuable boost for the vulnerable species.



The take away seems to be that nature is better off when humans are not around.

[mapuc]

Your post made me remember what someone said

When natures gone,Human will not survive - When the Human are gone, Nature will survive.
(Not exact phrase)

Markus

[Platapus]

Which is why I feel that the sooner this failed species called human can become extinct, the sooner the world can start to repair.

[Jimbuna]

Nearly two years back I was fascinated to seeing turtles released at night on the resorts private beach in Mexico.

[Skybird]

You all know this, its famous. By Sara Teasdale.



There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;
And frogs in the pools singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white,
Robins will wear their feathery fire
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;
And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done.
Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree
If mankind perished utterly;
And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn,
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

[August]

Which is why I feel that the sooner this failed species called human can become extinct, the sooner the world can start to repair.




Well if you hate your own species that much I guess there is something to be said for living up to your own ideals Platapus, but personally I heard that baby sea turtle stew is some good eating.

[mapuc]

^^ I did not know
It's beautiful poem

Markus

[Skybird]

^^ I did not know
It's beautiful poem

Markus
Then you have never red Ray Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles! :D

[mapuc]

Then you have never red Ray Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles! :D


I know this author and I have seen a lot of his short stories in his Ray Bradbury theater. (I can't remember them though)

I have not read the Martian Chronicles.

Markus

[Skybird]

The poem appears in I think the second last chapter of TMC. Many people learned about the poem by reading TMC, it became somewhat popular again after they turned TMC into a TV miniseries in the 80s I think, the films were not that good, but rose interest in Bradbury again, at least in Germany. Its by this TV project that I learned about Bradbury myself, started to investigate his work, and fell in love with his books in record time, within two days I had bought all books that at that time were available in German translations, and also placed an order for two English readers with his complete short novels, in English.- At that time, mid-80s, that still was a time-consuming and expensive issue...



Since then I'm a fan. Dandelion Wine probably is my favourite by Bradbury.

[Sailor Steve]

I I have not read the Martian Chronicles.
A fine book, from back in the days when science fiction was thought-provoking; not just an excuse for putting modern man in weir situations.

[Catfish]

It will take some time until nature repairs this. Surely only after humans are not around :nope:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_BV7lKV0wM

[captainadccdacaptain]

Its amazing how destructive we are as a species

[Jeff-Groves]

@Steve

If you liked The Martian Chronicles?
I suggest you read
'Winesburg, Ohio: A Group of Tales of Ohio Small-Town Life'
Ray credited that as an influence along with 'The Grapes of Wrath'.

Myself? I prefer Slaughterhouse-Five

[Texas Red]

Well, we went to Edisto Island in South Carolina for a very fun camping trip and the Park Rangers wouldn't let you light fires because of the turtles and how they use the moonlight to guide themselves to the water. They can mistake the fires for the light and head to them.

That was a very fun camping trip.

[Rockstar]

NSFW Language



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

[Platapus]

In George We Trust

[Catfish]

Not in that case i'm afraid.
"What, earth has been here for 4 and a half billion years, and we are only here destroying the world for 200 years"
Impressing what we did in this short time, isn't it :hmmm:

[u crank]

Not in that case i'm afraid.
"What, earth has been here for 4 and a half billion years, and we are only here destroying the world for 200 years"
Impressing what we did in this short time, isn't it :hmmm:

True but there is also an impressive list of accomplishments by the human species. The current inhabitants of this planet are the beneficiaries of many of those accomplishments. In nature there is always risk. Humans are great risk takers. Possibly the greatest in the universe. Those risks have split the atom, put robotic vehicles on Mars, delved into the Theories of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics and explained our existence by scientific theory. At no time during the ascent of man was there a promise of success.

"With great risk comes great reward." - Thomas Jefferson.

[Rockstar]

He's making fun of those who think we can save a planet. He points out in its 4 billion + years of existence it has gone through and survived far worse than we could ever dream of. All we are doing is threatening our own existence not the planet, it will still be here long after we're gone.

[Catfish]

@u crank human accomplishments can be admired by humans, but after all it is one ape giving a stick to another. All accomplishments done by humans have been done for humans (if at all, mostly for personal gain), seldomly for other life on this planet.
But as August said, if we kill mother nature first, it cannot kill us :D

@Rockstar Bingo. The inanimate planet with crust and all will not be so easy to destroy, at least not by humanity. But where's a will..

[mapuc]

Nothing but a weird theory.
(some of you may think biblical)

Earth knew some had to take care of the animals(Fauna and Flora)
so human was created-but human turned out to be cruel.

Earth decided to increase humans IQ-hoping this would help
More IQ, gave more cruelty

Earth increased humans IQ once more-now with such a high IQ maybe human will be nice to its creation
No-More IQ=Even more evilness.

Now Earth(Mother Nature) is tired of her creation=Human

Of course I can't prove this weird theory.

Markus

[Catfish]

^ i would not take this literally :03:

If planets could talk, earth would say "i have a disease named humanity", and Mars would answer "don't worry, it will be over soon".

Which makes me wonder, there is not even an english translation for "das geht vorbei" ? :o "That will pass" is not quite right, in this case may "you will get over it" ?
You really cannot translate some things properly.

[u crank]

@u crank human accomplishments can be admired by humans, but after all it is one ape giving a stick to another. All accomplishments done by humans have been done for humans (if at all, mostly for personal gain), seldomly for other life on this planet.

I don't disagree but then again that is what humans do. We have evolved to do this. After all you wouldn't jump into a swamp and then complain if you are eaten by an crocodile. That's what they evolved to do.

Personally I think that human accompishments are quite remarkable. 12,000 years ago we had just learned to farm and herd animals. In a universe and on a planet as old as ours that is almost unexplainable. Our tendancy for self destruction is tempered by our marvels of invention and thought.

And we invented rock and roll. :rock:

[Platapus]

There used to be a game called Sim Earth. The secret to getting a nicely balanced and successful earth was that as soon as any species started exhibiting a certain amount of intelligence, make it extinct.



I don't know if that was what the designers intended though

[August]

But as August said, if we kill mother nature first, it cannot kill us :D


I never said kill it, just control it, dominate it, own and manipulate it to our selfish advantage. :03:
I guess i'm just a species first guy. I refuse to feel guilty for being human like some self haters are wont to do.

[skidman]

Evolution measures success as continuance.

cyanobacteria: 2,7 bn years
cockroaches: 330 m years
dinosaurs: 170 m years
H.sapiens: 300.000 years

Once our planet has become stardust again humankind and their vanity and hubris will not be worth a footnote.

[August]

Once our planet has become stardust again humankind and their vanity and hubris will not be worth a footnote.


Maybe but unlike the dinosaurs our hand is still in the game.

[Skybird]

The universe does not take risks, nor does it decide. It is.



The overwhelming, unimaginable large part of the universe, seems to be as dead as "dead" can mean.



What we call nature, we refer to as the living biom on this planet that we depend on for existing, in clduing its processes and interdependecies and ingredients it is made of and formed by.


To imagine that man could "dominate", "rule" or "master" nature, the universe, is just expression of the pathological self-exaggeration that more and more threatens to become man's hubris and self-destruction. Christian mythology has brought incredible damage into the world in this regard by putting man above what it calls creation.



In the end, man will be nothign more than just a corn of dust flashing up in the sky for a split of second, and then wikll be forgotten again already. The universe will not even take care of that we ever existed. But we with our lifespan exist in just this short split of a cosmic second, and relatively this is what adds the meaning and importance to it - from our point of view, not the universe's.



Prisoners that we are in our relative percpetion of time, we arwe not the oinly prisoner,s but other life coexist with us in this split of a second. For them, this nsplit fo a cosmis seciond is as relevant as it is for us, and if we ruin this brief timespan we all exist, then we ruin it for the other lifeforms out there as well. And that is the stiunling mess we create. From a unbiverse'S pooiunt of view, it will hardly be taken niote of by anyone ever. From planet Earth'S pojutn of view and plants and animals point of view, it is all the difference between existince and non-existence.



Man cannot excuse his destructive effect ion thisnpnate by relatiovising it when arguing that "from the universe's perspective" it all does not matter anyway. That is no excuse. We must stay in the scaling we got born into. And in this scaling our effect for all themlife coexisting with us is an utmost besaster. We do like lethal virusses: we overwhelm the host that keeps us alive and feds us, we kill it by excessively continuing wioth overwhelming it, and by killinjg this host we kill ourselves.


The host here is that environmental and most fragile, lucky balance of variables that enable life of the form we are, and life of the form as we define it mostly in and for the biome around us.



The vanshing of ther human race would be a desaster only for one: for man. For all and everything else, it would be a great relief. Hardly a compliment for our species, even less so when considering our unique traits (unique on this planet at least) and potentials. Obviously we fail in realising them.



It must be hoped we do not reach the stars. We should not reach them. All we bring to any new place, is destruction. Fortunately I think that all this talking about leaving Earth and resettling to space colonies and planets, is naive daydreaming only anyway. It will not happen, we will not make it. We simnpyl are too self-destruiciove, and too stupid, and we have run out of too much time already. Having a dozen people living ion a metal spohere on planet Mars is not what I would call a realistic alternative for our species' survival. The harsh truth is: we either get along on this planet, or we will not get along anymore anywhere.



I liked and like classic Science Fiction from the late 50s to the early 90s, a lot. But I always was aware of the word "fiction" in it.

[Catfish]

Maybe but unlike the dinosaurs our hand is still in the game.
I doubt we last 170 mio years, also the successors of the dinosaurs are still among us, and i do not mean your democrat reptilian overlords

[u crank]

The universe does not take risks, nor does it decide. It is.

From a universe point of view, it will hardly be taken note of by anyone ever.

The universe is not aware that it exists. This is one of the human species most noteable charateristics. We are aware of our existence and make a feeble attempt to explain it. We know our past and are charting our future. Until we come in contact with a similar species, we are, to our knowledge, the crowning achievement of the evolutionary process.

Humans tend to be moralistic but the universe has no morals. And we should treat it as such.

[August]

I doubt we last 170 mio years, also the successors of the dinosaurs are still among us, and i do not mean your democrat reptilian overlords


Lol, well i'm betting that our species not only survives a couple hundred million years but by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe.



Human are number one!

[skidman]

Until we come in contact with a similar species, we are, to our knowledge, the crowning achievement of the evolutionary process.


Nope. Evolution doesn't produce achievements, that perspective is completely wrong. The process of "making copies" that are slightly different from the last copy uses different kinds of replication machines, that is, different kind of phenotypes. If you wanted to classify these machines (which is a very anthropocentric and limited approach) in terms of fitness (the term Darwin used, because he knew nothing about genes and their selfishness) the only reasonable feature usable for classification is how long they have been part of the process.

"A monkey is a machine that preserves genes up trees, a fish is a machine that preserves genes in the water; there is even a small worm that preserves genes in German beer mats. DNA works in mysterious ways.”
Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene"

[u crank]

Nope. Evolution doesn't produce achievements, that perspective is completely wrong.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not a scientist, but it would seem to me that the natural evolutionary process of the human species ended a long time ago. Unlike all the other forms of life on this planet we are directing (for better or worse) our own future. Once that started we began an evolution not solely directed by the former process that we and all other species have been subject to. Maybe achievment is the wrong word. Perhaps 'development' would be better suited to describe that fact.

[mapuc]

Evolution

I believe it's not in its nature to overcome itself, but to improve its creation.

Like us human...in the beginning we were like apes and today with hundreds of mutation have developed and are now Homo Sapiens Sapiens(I think it is)

The question then is

Why haven't the evolution done the same with other animals ?

Now you may say
Look at some art of our monkeys-they have learned to use tools.

Is it because of a mutation in their genes or is it something
they have learned ?

August wrote
" by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe."

No doubt we one day will master such a thing.

I think however this is something that first will come true hundreds of years from now.

If mother nature/evolution decide to erase us from this planet, long before this can be done, then we are truly doomed.

I have hope we will survive as species

Markus

[Skybird]

I doubt we last 170 mio years, also the successors of the dinosaurs are still among us, and i do not mean your democrat reptilian overlords
:har:

[Skybird]

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not a scientist, but it would seem to me that the natural evolutionary process of the human species ended a long time ago.
No, such processes may slow down (sharks for exmaple), but if such process ever comes to an end, the species has gone extinct. It would mean that the surrounding variables have come to an end and do not change anymore, and that is practically unimaginable. These variables, too, if they would appear to not change anymore, would have stopped to exist.



Heraklit: Panta rei! Even mountains, ocean seabeds, continents.

[August]

:har:


Germans have nothing to laugh about when it comes to submitting to tyrants.

[Skybird]

Evolution

I believe it's not in its nature to overcome itself, but to improve its creation.

Like us human...in the beginning we were like apes and today with hundreds of mutation have developed and are now Homo Sapiens Sapiens(I think it is)

The question then is

Why haven't the evolution done the same with other animals ?

Now you may say
Look at some art of our monkeys-they have learned to use tools.

Is it because of a mutation in their genes or is it something
they have learned ?

August wrote
" by then has figured out how to travel to the four corners of the universe."

No doubt we one day will master such a thing.

I think however this is something that first will come true hundreds of years from now.

If mother nature/evolution decide to erase us from this planet, long before this can be done, then we are truly doomed.

I have hope we will survive as species

Markus
Evolution does not create anything. Its just a model for us poor handicapped unimaginery brain dwarfs by which we create a system with places in it to which we appoint our own subjective observations - hopefully as best as we could to help us mastering our future challenges better than without this system project, and that is what we call science. If we sort them according to our wishes or preset worldviews, then it is called ideology or religion instead.


So, evoltuion does not exist and does not create. It is just a name for our own sorting work trying to make sense of what we see. A model. But the map of a city is neither the city nor the greater world it is build in. And it is up to us to decide what we paint into that plan and what not, and we never know whether our knowledge about the city is complete and so whether or not our plan is complete. We just try to make sens eof it all. But it is our brain'S wheelchair, not a existing entity in itself.

[mapuc]

^ What would you call our development from Neanderthal to what we are today

Isn't it some kind of evolution

From Danish Wiki

Evolution is a process whereby the composition of inheritance in a population changes over generations. [1] Evolutionary processes give rise to the diversity of life at all levels of biological organization, including the level of species, individual organisms, and the level of molecular evolution.

Is there another word who should be used instead of this evolution ?

Markus

[Skybird]

All I wanted to indicate, mapuc, is that "Evolution" is nothing in itself, no seperate "something", with own existenmce. It has no9 goal, no intention, no self-existence, its just a name that we have invented for a way in whcih we sort our obersvations into an order that we have invented. Granted, I agree that this order we sort observations into makes prgamatic sense for our purpoises - but that is our intellect'S puüprioses only, and nobody and nothing else beyoind our own human intellect has even a clue on that thgere are some lifeforms who invented a word and attached it to the way the world around is going.


In this understanding, "evolution" does not exist. And thus it has no self-made creation, no in etion, no goal, no origin. Its our own mind chasing shadows in an attempt to allow us making us masters of our future fate by controll8ing the nevriuonem,nt we need to loie in better. Its like the rules for agme that we have invented, say "Monopoly". There is no "Monopoly" out there, it doe snto exist. Its a set of rules we have invehted to sort social itneraciton in a systamtical way that we call a "game". It has no exiostenc ebeyiond our agreement on these rules. And still, although it just is a fata morgana, a fiction, it still allows us to enjoy each other during the match (or not, this game can call grim emotions into life...).


The word for a thing is not the thing itself. The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon. Evolution is just a word with a menaign wer have invented - the real world sand i8ts ever-.changing dance is somethign different. And still our little brain trick allows us to make sense of it in an improved way so that we can form conceots and underdstandsiugnsd by which we hope to manipulate our living cionditioons and future fates to our advantage.


Science never describes absolute, tota, final truths or realities - to do that, it would need to be disconnected from the context of the universe which it reflects over, it would need to be not a part of the universe. But it is. The claims it raises, are always temporary. They last as long only as nobody shows up with better ways of explaining what we see and experience.


I say all this only becasue of your opening "evolution improving its creration". There is no creation by anyone, there is no intention to improve, there is no origin known to all this existence, and no holder of the experiene and no owner of the creation.


There is just the process. The dance.

[Catfish]

Evolution is blind in a way that it is not directed into a certain direction. It can have positive or negative results.

So e.g. the genetical change of blood cells over generations to higher concentrations of sickle cells can have positive or negative results, depending in which environment you live. While it generally reduces life expectancy, it also helps against Malaria and dying of it in the short run.

New research has shown that some genetical changes can indeed happen during the life of an organism, not in the way Lamarque had described it, but in a more restricted way. This will be interesting, especially in the appropriate biological warfare labs of certain beloved governments.

[mapuc]

There's one thing I have discovered when it comes to us human

We have very high thoughts about our self.
Nothing wrong with a dosis confidence now and then.

But I get the feeling that people think if we should be extinct - Nature will collapse.

Markus

[Platapus]

When it comes to the planet, humans are certainly non-essential :03:

[u crank]

No, such processes may slow down (sharks for exmaple), but if such process ever comes to an end, the species has gone extinct. It would mean that the surrounding variables have come to an end and do not change anymore, and that is practically unimaginable. These variables, too, if they would appear to not change anymore, would have stopped to exist.


I'm sorry but I am not doing a very good job of explaining my point of view. And you are right, evolution does not stop. The point I am trying to make is that the human species has moved to a point of evolution/development that no other species has. We are aware of who we are and how we got to this point and we are now actively taking part in our own evolution/development.

[skidman]

New research has shown that some genetical changes can indeed happen during the life of an organism, not in the way Lamarque had described it, but in a more restricted way. This will be interesting, especially in the appropriate biological warfare labs of certain beloved governments.

Yep, maybe the most dangerous weapon in our hands is neither a nuclear warhead nor VX but CRISPR.

[skidman]

^ What would you call our development from Neanderthal to what we are today

Is there another word who should be used instead of this evolution ?


Well, we can define evolution as a mechanism that preserves (useful) information. Apparently mankind has developed techniques to pass on knowledge to the next generation and this process is often referred to as "cultural evolution". I must admit, I don't like the expression.

[Jeff-Groves]

^ What would you call our development from Neanderthal to what we are today



There is no Empirical evidence We descended from the Neanderthal.
Last I heard was that that was a seperate line and some people have traces of the Neanderthal genes.
Probably from a funky night near a camp fire.

[Catfish]

At that time the Neanderthalers were a bit more intelligent than what was to become Homo sapiens much later, so why not breed with them.

[Jeff-Groves]

Obviously there were no laws against it at the time.
:haha:
Try humping a Chimpanzee today and see how fast you go to jail!
:har:

[skidman]

Try humping a Chimpanzee today and see how fast you go to jail!
:har:

To hospital rather, if you're lucky. Adult Chimpanzees are killing machines.