View Full Version : Trump vs Germany
Catfish
03-15-20, 12:35 PM
re MrQuatro (and no, i like you - at least mostly :D - but i somehow fail to see why you seem to be intentionally blind(?) )
No one needs to be paid here or anywhere in the world to see certain shortcomings of Trump. This has nothing to do with being conservative, republican or democrat, it is the man himself.
Truth matters, and it was never so relevant as it is now in this crisis. When it comes to solving real problems, the truth has a clear practical advantage: it works. An engineer who builds a bridge based on untrue facts will almost certainly create a structure that will collapse later. Truth is extremely useful.
"The opposite of truth is "bull...t", as the philosopher Harry Frankfurt called it. Bull...t in this sense means disregarding the truth. That distinguishes the bull....ter from the liar: after all, the liar has so much respect for the truth that he deliberately says the untruth, says Frankfurt. The bull...ter, on the other hand, simply does not care: he simply claims something - the main thing is that it benefits him at the moment."
It seems that the baad baad Europe (Trump) is suddenly not so bad when it comes to develop vaccines. Trump now wants to buy out Germany's CureVac company and the vaccine only and exclusively for use in the US.
Indeed this is nothing to laugh about, but dumb and brazen.
"America first" in the midst of the pandemic. (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manager-magazin.de%2Funternehmen%2Fartikel%2Fcurevac-donald-trump-lockt-tuebinge-impfstoff-firma-und-forscher-in-usa-a-1305445.html)
Rufus Shinra
03-15-20, 12:47 PM
re MrQuatro (and no, i like you - at least mostly :D - but i somehow fail to see why you seem to be intentionally blind(?) )
No one needs to be paid here or anywhere in the world to see certain shortcomings of Trump. This has nothing to do with being conservative, republican or democrat, it is the man himself.
Truth matters, and it was never so relevant as it is now in this crisis. When it comes to solving real problems, the truth has a clear practical advantage: it works. An engineer who builds a bridge based on untrue facts will almost certainly create a structure that will collapse later. Truth is extremely useful.
"The opposite of truth is "bull...t", as the philosopher Harry Frankfurt called it. Bull...t in this sense means disregarding the truth. That distinguishes the bull....ter from the liar: after all, the liar has so much respect for the truth that he deliberately says the untruth, says Frankfurt. The bull...ter, on the other hand, simply does not care: he simply claims something - the main thing is that it benefits him at the moment."
It seems that the baad baad Europe (Trump) is suddenly not so bad when it comes to develop vaccines. Trump now wants to buy out Germany's CureVac company and the vaccine only and exclusively for use in the US.
Indeed this is nothing to laugh about, but dumb and brazen.
"America first" in the midst of the pandemic. (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manager-magazin.de%2Funternehmen%2Fartikel%2Fcurevac-donald-trump-lockt-tuebinge-impfstoff-firma-und-forscher-in-usa-a-1305445.html)
Which would be pretty amusing (the "vaccine buyout" idea) because the only result is that the rest of the planet would give exactly zero f**k about any patent and would produce it for themselves while politely telling the lawyers to go explain their thought process to Xi Jinping. In person.
End result: he'd have paid a lot of cash for zero advantage and would have pushed the rest of the planet in Chinese hands. Oh, BTW, literal tons of medical supplies are coming from China to Italy right now, as well as doctors experienced with the virus.
Rockstar
03-15-20, 12:54 PM
Heh, at least we're doing something instead of, you know, talking about it's just a simple flu and basically doing nothing to either prevent further contamination or even knowing about the scale of it.
Denying you have a cancer doesn't make you healthier than the bed-ridden guy with a flu. ;-)
I believe you believe that. But besides deflecting the argument to something other than your current situation and complaining about everyone else's measures. What exactly IS the E.U. a.k.a. the new COVID-19 epicenter doing? Hopefully you're not following Italy's example. Hopefully you're helping Greece secure its border with Turkey. What about those coming in from the South out of Africa? And of course the Schengen Agreement any thought about that yet, or is that still just a problem dreamed up by political boogymen? I mean if the E.U. is supposed to be so united why didn't the 'Union' contribute rather than allow the Union member Italy to screw up so badly? Seems to me its more like every man for themselves over there than a real Union. Most of Italy's tourists come from Germany, followed by France, the UK and US. Where did all the those tourists go? Who is fleeing Italy unannounced into France?
You need to wake up and face facts. You have the exact same problems we and everyone does. Its easy to see the reaction by governments to COVID-19 is pretty much same. The Pot calling the Kettle black.
Seems to me its more like every man for themselves over there than a real Union.It's almost as if the EU was made out of a number of sovereign nations or something...
Rufus Shinra
03-15-20, 01:19 PM
I believe you believe that. But besides deflecting the argument to something other than your current situation and complaining about everyone else's measures. What exactly IS the E.U. a.k.a. the new COVID-19 epicenter doing? Hopefully you're not following Italy's example. Hopefully you're helping Greece secure its border with Turkey. What about those coming in from the South out of Africa? And of course the Schengen Agreement any thought about that yet, or is that still just a problem dreamed up by political boogymen? I mean if the E.U. is supposed to be so united why didn't the 'Union' contribute rather than allow the Union member Italy to screw up so badly? Seems to me its more like every man for themselves over there than a real Union. Most of Italy's tourists come from Germany, followed by France, the UK and US. Where did all the those tourists go? Who is fleeing Italy unannounced into France?
You need to wake up and face facts. You have the exact same problems we and everyone does. Its easy to see the reaction by governments to COVID-19 is pretty much same. The Pot calling the Kettle black.
You're pretty amusing if you're saying all the reactions are the same. There's pretty much one country standing out in having a completely chaotic reaction to the epidemic, with pretty much zero work done to track the virus' initial propagation or its actual presence on the territory, and that country isn't in Eurasia. Same for the lemming panic buying and km long queues in front of stores.
Denying the uniqueness of the US' reaction to this epidemic isn't going to improve the end result, no matter how much praying is done to the Dear Leader. As for your EU rant, yes, I get that you don't understand what the Union is and try to compare it to a single country, which it is not. Don't really understand why, though. Le Shrug.
Catfish
03-15-20, 01:22 PM
Huh, i did not create this thread.. posted it in the Wuhan virus thread, did a moderator shift it ? :hmmm:
Well i'm ok with that though i would have chosen a less aggravating title :D
Rockstar
03-15-20, 01:29 PM
The U.K. is a sovereign nation, Canada is a sovereign nation, Mexico is a Sovereign nation, Russia is a sovereign nation. The European Union IMO isn't not sure what it wants to be. With regard to COVID-19 it has the exact same problems and will be hit just as hard as everyone else on this planet. But true to form comes the Euro riding in on their high horse pointing out how worse it is for everyone else.
Onkel Neal
03-15-20, 01:36 PM
Huh, i did not create this thread.. posted it in the Wuhan virus thread, did a moderator shift it ? :hmmm:
Well i'm ok with that though i would have chosen a less aggravating title :D
Pick a title and I'll change it.
Catfish
03-15-20, 01:39 PM
^ Rockstar, nothing to do with the original post.
The UK is a [one] sovereign nation? Are Scotland, Wales, Ireland not sovereign nations? Well if not they may soon be.
The EU is still a trade organisation consisting of 27 sovereign states. Even within Germany there is no absolute power by chancellor Merkel since it is a federal system, where every county in the country of Germany has its own right of school system and requirements to study. This disadvantage is not one because it indirectly creates different advantages.. but i digress.
There is certainly a national interest which will beat individual wants in the time of a crisis.
Also the EU is not the "center of the infection". You can call out China here.
Rockstar
03-15-20, 01:43 PM
Catfish: like or not according to our sources the E.U. is now considered the new COVID-19 epicenter.
Rufus: Actions speak louder than words.
"Dr. Anthony Fauci, the widely-respected director the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield, appeared before the House Oversight Committee for a second day of questioning Thursday and backed President Trump's travel ban from much of Europe.
"'The real risk in general right now, and this is why the president took the action he did last night, within the world now over 70 percent of the new cases are linked to Europe,' Redfield said. 'Europe is the new China, and that's why the president made those statements.'"
ABC continued:
"California Democratic Rep. Jimmy Gomez raises Trump's various travel restrictions, asking if the European travel ban will have a significant impact on reducing the spread of community cases, Fauci said, 'A firm yes.'
Good luck to you guys over there hope your borders tighten up and your precious Union gets things under control. Hope to cya on the otherside of this pandemic
Catfish
03-15-20, 01:44 PM
Pick a title and I'll change it.
Germany is only a secondary theatre of war in his "war" against Europe. Not that i understand his motives. Keep the title, here it's to the point :03:
Wild accusations by unnamed sources and unidentified German government officials, gleefully promoted in this forum as fact by the usual anti-American crowd. The thread title should be Fake News.
Catfish
03-15-20, 01:54 PM
@Rockstar of course it makes sense to stop flights from other areas of the world. I hope he also stopped flights from China, Australia, Japan and whatnot.
Regarding Fauci, he's more competent that Trump will ever be.
"Trump went so far as to say Fauci was doing a "tremendous job" and "working long, long hours" during a Rose Garden news conference Friday, just a day after the doctor admitted to members of Congress that the current set of protocols for physicians to request coronavirus tests for their patients "is a failing."
That's a clear contradiction with the President, who has insisted that "testing has been going very smooth."
The veteran doctor also hasn't been afraid to refute Trump to his face. The dynamic was on full display when Trump was asked last week about a timeline for a novel coronavirus vaccine during a White House meeting opened up to reporters."
https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/41895892/how-dr-anthony-fauci-became-trumps-coronavirus-truthteller
Wild accusations by unnamed sources and unidentified German government officials, gleefully promoted in this forum as fact by the usual anti-American crowd. The thread title should be Fake News.He states, after posting a link to an article that cites an unnamed US official.
Catfish
03-15-20, 01:58 PM
Wild accusations by unnamed sources and unidentified German government officials, gleefully promoted in this forum as fact by the usual anti-American crowd. The thread title should be Fake News.
It was not me who wrote about Trump trying to buy out the german vaccine company and transfer it to the US, and then use it exclusively for the US, but Skybird. I was stunned, then began to search. Seems the report is true.
If this "wild acusation" is wrong i will gladly apologize.
It was not me who wrote about Trump trying to buy out the german vaccine company and transfer it to the US, and then use it exclusively for the US, but Skybird. I was stunned, then began to search. Seems the report is true.
If this "wild acusation" is wrong i will gladly apologize.
Yeah we'll see. I do note that the company in question has some sort of headquarters in Boston? Is it German, American or a multi-national?
He states, after posting a link to an article that cites an unnamed US official.
An official that was not named is not the same thing as an unnamed official. The latter implies the name was deliberately withheld by the media whereas the former is likely just an omission since it is a response.
Catfish
03-15-20, 03:26 PM
I don't know much about it other what i can find on the 'net. Curevac was founded in 2000, has an affiliate company in Boston since 2015. It seems the Gates fondation has acquired 20 percent of the company's stocks but it still is a german company.
edit: also
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F coronavirus-wie-us-praesident-donald-trump-auf-das-deutsche-biotech-unternehmen-curevac-aufmerksam-wurde%2F25645846.html
Apart from that and re Rockstar, what does the closing-down of international travel do now.? The virus is already everywhere. Had China played with open cards, give access to what they knew months ago, closing of borders would have made a difference then, with a worldwide lockdown.
Now they want to fight people, not the virus.
Skybird
03-15-20, 04:13 PM
Curevac is mostly owned by the SAP founder, a German, he holds 80% of it. The recent chief of the American branch was an American and was hired to form the American business branch indeed, no scientist himself, but a businessman, and he sold the vaccine project to Trumnp as being something he could have "very fast, until summer", during a conference in the WH with several other companies of something like a vaccine alliance. Needless to say, a president loving the words "beautiful" and "great" also likes the word "fast", and so Trump wanted to aquire the Germans in an exclsive deal that woudl have given Trump total control over the company and the vaccine: America first -the rest of the world takes orders.
The American business chef meanwhile got fired and replaced with another guy, a German I think who is the opposite of his American predecessor: a scientist and not a businessman.
Today, as i somewhere posted, the German majority shareholder and owner has ruled out exclusive deals with just one govenrment, which effectively is a No to Washington's offers, demand or whatever it was. Also, the German govenrment could have intervened most likely by legislation used by the foreign ministry, basing on claims for vital national interests or somethign in that direction, which allows the government to forbid certain business contracts.
Nobody with a sane mind can want a guy like Trump having monopolised control and power over the maybe first vaccine on the market. He would abuse that power to the max, no doubt, and blackmail all the world,. likew he tries to blackmail Europe over the liquid gas pipoeline thing as well - wantign Europe to buy exlcuivyely Ameicn gas at 30% higher price and with greater toxic footprint.
He is the type who makes his deals with holding a pistol at your head to make you an offer that you cannot reject. I would set the dogs on him if he would ever approach my place to offer me a "deal".
Catfish
03-15-20, 04:20 PM
Well it is ok for Trump to think of his country first, after the chance of an instant worlwide lockdown has been thrown out the window by China's national policy. That he then wants to use it exclusively for the US alone is, of course, not "Minnesota-nice" (hello Aktung :03:).
Whatever, it is not only the german CureVac which is researching and developing a vaccine against the Corona virus. There are a lot of other companies using a similar approach with messenger RNA to tackle the virus.
What i do not understand is why all are talking about "killing the virus". A virus is not a living organism. It can be destroyed by UV light or subdued, or locked down by a body's immunosystem, but never killed. The encapsulated virus contents is in a "chrystalline" stage, no disinfectant kills it. You kill the bacteria in which the virus multiplies, thus holding down the numbers, that is all.
And it is here to stay, the spreading - even if there had been instant information (China's failure to communicate), would only have slowed down the worldwide infection. We would have had a better chance in developing a vaccine in time of course.
International cooperation is not well developed on earth, and the recent nationalisation of minds and policies sure does not help.
...and he sold the vaccine project to Trumnp as being something he could have "very fast, until summer"
There was no sale of anything to anyone Skybird. Nor would the US President have the personal authority to purchase a civilian company without prior congressional budgetary approval, so it's obvious that your claim Trump tried to buy a vaccine away from you poor poor Germans is pure bull.
There was no sale of anything to anyone Skybird. Nor would the US President have the personal authority to purchase a civilian company without prior congressional budgetary approval, so it's obvious that your claim Trump tried to buy a vaccine away from you poor poor Germans is pure bull.
It is a figure of speech. :roll:
It is a figure of speech. :roll:
From the OP:
Trump now wants to buy out Germany's CureVac company and the vaccine only and exclusively for use in the US.
Another figure of speech? :roll:
Skybird
03-15-20, 04:47 PM
For Trump, American policy always is about himself. The country is just the extension of his ego.
Anyhow, here is a German summary of what was going on. The new man who replaced Menichella - is the original founder of Curevac who kind of returned to the helm this way. And he hgas made severla tweets about Trump and reposted a satire on him, says the article, that leave no doubt on where he stands regarding Trump. Trump is out of the game. And Berlin would have blocked the deal anyway, always, says the article.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/curevac-investor-hopp-wehrt-sich-gegen-donald-trump-16680445.html
From the OP:
Another figure of speech? :roll:
Uh... no? I responded to you trying to twist Skybird's words just to make a point knowing full well the meaning of what he said.
For Trump, American policy always is about himself. The country is just the extension of his ego.
Anyhow, here is a German summary of what was going on. The new man who replaced Menichella - is the original founder of Curevac who kind of returned to the helm this way. And he hgas made severla tweets about Trump and reposted a satire on him, says the article, that leave no doubt on where he stands regarding Trump. Trump is out of the game. And Berlin would have blocked the deal anyway, always, says the article.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/curevac-investor-hopp-wehrt-sich-gegen-donald-trump-16680445.html
So we're out of a game that Trump never played? How disconcerting.
Uh... no? I responded to you trying to twist Skybird's words just to make a point knowing full well the meaning of what he said.
I know what he meant.
Their whole argument is that the president tried to purchase a German company in order to keep their promised corvid vaccine all to our evil American selves. It is becoming evident that this is really just a case of the usual suspects trying to make political hay out of something that did not happen. If it is more important to the ceo of Curevac to play politics than find a solution to this disease then maybe they should shut down their Boston offices and get the heck out of my country.
And so like all the other anti-Trump claims in the past three years it has been debunked.
Those that promoted the story are liars and those that believed it are fools. I will be waiting for full retractions from the usual suspects.
A German biotech company tweeted (https://twitter.com/CureVacAG/status/1239535638359281664?s=20) Monday it did not receive an offer from President Trump for rights to a coronavirus vaccine it is working on.The statement was aimed at putting an end to controversy surrounding a reported attempt by Trump to gain exclusive access to a potential coronavirus vaccine, or the German research group doing work on it. On Monday the White House also dismissed the charge.https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/03/16/german-company-curevac-says-no-offer-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/5062072002/
Skybird
03-17-20, 06:19 PM
Maybe you do some more thorough research on the wide range of media here in Germany before you just spill some propaganda that fits your purpose. The story about Hoppe and what he claimed or not, is a bit more complex than what some try to make it appear like.
Its not the first time the US acts like this. Remember the attempt of buying the shipyard building the Type 212 - only to get insight into its techncial blueprints for what makes it so silent?
But whatever suits you best. Out.
off topic comment to your discussion
this thread and its contents
Made me remember something similar, which was in California where some company tried to get an exclusive right over the underground drinking water.
I remember it, from some documentary on Swedish and later German tv.
End off topic comment...
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