Re-reading Blair's books

[John Pancoast]

Lots of interesting items mentioned:


- a u-boat was spotted on the surface from ten (!) miles away. Multiple accounts of early war escort crews seeing the sub *first*.

- via the book, maybe the stock weather in SH3 isn't far off, bugged or not. Many mentions of lengthy terrrible storms at all times of the year, damaging convoys, affecting u-boat operations, etc.
I've been using it for awhile now actually.

- even on a full moon, cloudless night submerged attacks weren't always possible due to not enough light for the scope. (I never attack submerged at night myself. Haven't found proof it's historically accurate to do so).

- wish the game allowed contact reports without having to be in actual contact with the convoy.
I.e., after withdrawing after an attack, wasn't uncommon for the contact report to then be sent.

- the diesel engines were far from reliable. Many mentions of aborted patrols, problems, etc. due to breakdowns.

- the early war escorts were much more effective and capable than portrayed in any version of SH3. Though I have a modified Rub 1.45 campaign going with CB's old AI mod that is much better. Maybe to much so.

- statement in the 1943 section of the books, the u-boat hydrophones could detect a convoy *in good weather from 10-20 miles away*.

- the convoys in SH3 do not have enough escorts attached. Comparable sized ones in the books had 50-100% more escorts and were considered thinly (!) escorted.

Some more I can't recall at the moment. I'll post them if I do.

[K-61]

I just had some new windows installed in my house. As part of the prepping process for the workers my wife and I moved our stuff about, bookshelves and such. I found "Hitler's U-boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" in hard cover. I am keeping my eye out for the second volume, no luck yet. I envy you, John, for having both volumes, is that correct?

[Aktungbby]

JUST ORDER IT ON LINE ON A KINDLE OR BOOK-KINDLE FUNCTION FOR YOUR TABLET; I GOT VOLUME IN PAPER AND THE OTHER IS ELECTRONIC: BOTH ON MY KINDLE AND MY TSAMSUNG TABLET WHICH ALSO HAS MY KINDLE ACCOUNT. FOR A :subsim:R, BOTH VOLUMES ARE REQUIRED READING....IMHO:rock::|\\:know::D

[UKönig]

Every time I finish volume 2, I turn em over and start it all over again.
Although lately I skip the allied portions of the narrative, and read just about the German side. I don't really care that much about allied politics and development of the code cracking computers or how much material traded hands.
Even though I've read the books probably 20 times in 4 years, I still find new things...
In between that, I find time for the novel das boot, and iron coffins.

[John Pancoast]

I just had some new windows installed in my house. As part of the prepping process for the workers my wife and I moved our stuff about, bookshelves and such. I found "Hitler's U-boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" in hard cover. I am keeping my eye out for the second volume, no luck yet. I envy you, John, for having both volumes, is that correct?

Yes, had them both since they came out, hardcover. I bet there are some on eBay.

[John Pancoast]

Another long distance, escort sees the sub first visual spotting. 11pm, December, seven miles !

No info. on moon/sky state, but even if it was clear with a full moon that's impressive.

Me too UKonig; find new things with each reading.

[Aktungbby]

Another long distance, escort sees the sub first visual spotting. 11pm, December, seven miles !

No info. on moon/sky state, but even if it was clear with a full moon that's impressive.

Me too UKonig; find new things with each reading.C'mon now! probably a bunch of 20 something u-bootsmanns were smoking on the 'wintergarten' thinking they were safe gabbing about bad food, the whores of Lorient, the smelly crap bucket in the engine room etc. and gave away their position passing a cigarette match or lighter around:O::|\\]

[John Pancoast]

C'mon now! probably a bunch of 20 something u-bootsmanns were smoking on the 'wintergarten' thinking they were safe gabbing about bad food, the whores of Lorient, the smelly crap bucket in the engine room etc. and gave away their position passing a cigarette match or lighter around:O::|\\]

Ha ! Could be ! Plus of course, Blair was taking the account from the official British records and skippers have been known to exaggerate at times !

[Anvar1061]

I want to recommend another fascinating reading.
S.W. Roskill WAR AT SEA 1939-1945
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-RN-I/index.html
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-RN-II/index.html#pagev
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-RN-III-1/index.html
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-RN-III-2/index.html

[David I]

K-61,

You can pick up both volumes (used good condition) for less than $10 each at Amazon.

They are a once every other year read for me.

David I

[K-61]

Thanks, David. I got my first volume copy at a used bookstore in town. I suppose I should check to see if they have the second volume, and if unsuccessful then check online.

[Levyathan89]

Thank you for the recommendation. Hadn't heard of Clay Blair before. I've just ordered both volumes :D

[Eastwa]

I have them both sine they were released great reference books.

Also another great 2 book series that I use all the time is Uboat Operations of the second world war by Kenneth Wynn which shows every patrol by every uboat.

[Aktungbby]

I have them both sine they were released great reference books.

Also another great 2 book series that I use all the time is Uboat Operations of the second world war by Kenneth Wynn which shows every patrol by every uboat.just remember, the official :subsim: ratio of reading to subsimming is 20 to 1. We can't waste our diminishing eyesight(age 68: eyeballs: 70+:yep: ) on damn books when intense screen gazing is a vital factor..:o:k_confused:

[John Pancoast]

Notice that there was a "Wolf Stiebler" who was a milk cow skipper. NYGM's Stiebler wrote a book about the milk cows.


Interesting.

[Schnee]

Every time I finish volume 2, I turn em over and start it all over again.
Although lately I skip the allied portions of the narrative, and read just about the German side. I don't really care that much about allied politics and development of the code cracking computers or how much material traded hands.
Even though I've read the books probably 20 times in 4 years, I still find new things...
In between that, I find time for the novel das boot, and iron coffins.




I have Book I The Hunters within reach when playing SHIII particularly on lengthy patrols post 1941 to the America's. :)

[UKönig]

I also have a copy of buchheim's photo essay book, "u boat war". Which is the pictographical description of his novel, "das boot". It's interesting to combine the notes from "Hitler's U-boat war", and the pictures taken from the day in question.
I hate how much I love this stuff...

[John Pancoast]

I also have a copy of buchheim's photo essay book, "u boat war". Which is the pictographical description of his novel, "das boot". It's interesting to combine the notes from "Hitler's U-boat war", and the pictures taken from the day in question.
I hate how much I love this stuff...

I've got that book too. The storm photos are amazing.

[John Pancoast]

Another items I've noticed is the many lost/damaged boats and crews in training in the Baltic.

Very shoddy oversight to have had this continually happen.

[UKönig]

Another items I've noticed is the many lost/damaged boats and crews in training in the Baltic.

Very shoddy oversight to have had this continually happen.

Me too.
Very disappointed with the number of new captains in training who got careless when navigating under water.
Most accidents that caused the loss of boat and/or crew was the result of an unknown under water collision, usually with each other.
Sometimes mechanical failure but most times due to negligence, very similar to the number of car crashes that occur in my area, in spite of the warnings.
It got so bad that Doenitz decreed that anyone found so negligent while in command of a U-boat, was to be court martialed with the utmost severity.

[John Pancoast]

All of 1945, BdU orders boat after boat into the shallow waters of St. George's channel, Land's End, etc.

Of course almost all were sunk with the loss all hands.

A u-boat in those shallow waters would have been a crazy idea in 1940 let alone 1945.

[propbeanie]

I'm sorry, but I would have had to have made an egregious navigational error, and missed the shallows by a good bit... :D :salute:

[Randomizer]

All of 1945, BdU orders boat after boat into the shallow waters of St. George's channel, Land's End, etc.

Of course almost all were sunk with the loss all hands.

A u-boat in those shallow waters would have been a crazy idea in 1940 let alone 1945.
I would disagree and use desperate rather than crazy. Once boats were equipped with snorkels, finding convoys in the open ocean became virtually impossible since the boat would need to be essentially in the path of the convoy in order to intercept at submerged speeds. The Inshore Campaign was intended to place the boats where the traffic was so they would act as semi-mobile minefields.

The casualties were enormous and arguably it shows the bankruptcy of the entire tonnage-war strategy after spring 1943. Agreed that in 1940 operating inshore would certainly have been crazy due to the requirement to surface for battery charging. In the last year of the war there are no other areas where a Type VII can operate and still expect to sink any merchant ships.

One captain had reasonable success. KL Hartmut Graf von Matuschka in U-482 sank five ships on his first inshore patrol in August-September 1944 but was killed in November. Presumably BdU figured that if U-482 could succeed then the thing was actually possible.

The Inshore Campaign as a bad idea? Sure but when you're out of options, choosing the least-worse course of action becomes acceptable especially from the safety of a headquarters desk located in a bomb-proof shelter.

Just $0.02 CAD.

Stay safe everyone.

- C

[John Pancoast]

I'm sorry, but I would have had to have made an egregious navigational error, and missed the shallows by a good bit... :D :salute:

Me too !

[Aktungbby]

All of 1945, BdU orders boat after boat into the shallow waters of St. George's channel, Land's End, etc.

Of course almost all were sunk with the loss all hands.

A u-boat in those shallow waters would have been a crazy idea in 1940 let alone 1945. https://uboat.net/maps/irish_sea.htm (https://uboat.net/maps/irish_sea.htm) :hmmm:

[John Pancoast]

I would disagree and use desperate rather than crazy. Once boats were equipped with snorkels, finding convoys in the open ocean became virtually impossible since the boat would need to be essentially in the path of the convoy in order to intercept at submerged speeds. The Inshore Campaign was intended to place the boats where the traffic was so they would act as semi-mobile minefields.

The casualties were enormous and arguably it shows the bankruptcy of the entire tonnage-war strategy after spring 1943. Agreed that in 1940 operating inshore would certainly have been crazy due to the requirement to surface for battery charging. In the last year of the war there are no other areas where a Type VII can operate and still expect to sink any merchant ships.

One captain had reasonable success. KL Hartmut Graf von Matuschka in U-482 sank five ships on his first inshore patrol in August-September 1944 but was killed in November. Presumably BdU figured that if U-482 could succeed then the thing was actually possible.

The Inshore Campaign as a bad idea? Sure but when you're out of options, choosing the least-worse course of action becomes acceptable especially from the safety of a headquarters desk located in a bomb-proof shelter.

Just $0.02 CAD.

Stay safe everyone.

- C


Nah, it was crazy :D What a waste.

[John Pancoast]

https://uboat.net/maps/irish_sea.htm (https://uboat.net/maps/irish_sea.htm) :hmmm:

Those areas are mentioned too. I was to lazy to list them with anything other than an "etc." :)