I really need a fix...

[Rockstar]

on a location. Going back to around the 1850's it's a place called 'Milschhauland' in Kolmar Pomerania, possibly Dreihaus county?

[vienna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrOel9KBswQ


Wait...what...oh, not that kind of fix...


...never mind... :D








<O>

[Pisces]

Maybe drop this line in the German or Polish forum section of Subsim. Perhaps someone can find more in a local library.

Searching for those keywords in Google it shows an image of the north of Polen (Pommern probably when it was under German rule). In particular is shows a map of the district of Powiat Wejherowski. It's west of Gdynia, near Gdansk. Google apparently points to this Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wejherowo_County

Other links it results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowalewo,_Pomeranian_Voivodeship

[Rockstar]

Based on the small bit of information I have. I think Milschhauland was nearer to the then German/Prussian? Provinz Posen. Id wager Milschhauland as a place nolonger exists or the name has since changed to something else.

[Catfish]

What do you want to know about that.. the location? Seems to have been in Posen/West Prussia.
And is it written correctly, quote: "Milschhauland' in Kolmar Pomerania, possibly Dreihaus".?
The word Milschhauland exists, but it seems to be Dreihäuser (Dreihaeuser without german Umlaut) which would be the plural of Dreihaus (the latter would be singular).
Link (https://books.google.de/books?id=NB8_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA297&lpg=PA297&dq=Milschhauland&source=bl&ots=3VRClkO28f&sig=ACfU3U1fiObXvKeYTPzjeRNYNq6f7wDCxA&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwib2PzTm-PmAhUKURUIHdhUDvAQ6AEwAXoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Milschhauland&f=false)
Also here: Link (https://books.google.de/books?id=j8dUAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA145&lpg=RA1-PA145&dq=%22Milschhauland%22&source=bl&ots=8ujtzcSXQE&sig=ACfU3U1f3OOPwYIRBVlUCYfqyC37zgjszA&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwimn9z5nePmAhXQVBUIHcHPDDUQ6AEwAHoECAIQA Q#v=onepage&q=%22Milschhauland%22&f=false)
A voivodship oder "Woiwodschaft" is an administrative district within Poland. :hmmm:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreis_Kolmar_i._Posen in german, english translation (for what it's worth - probably nothing lol):

"The area around the cities of Chodziesen and Schneidemühl belonged after the first division of Poland from 1772 to 1807 to the district of Deutsch Krone in the network district in the Prussian province of West Prussia. [1]
Due to the Peace of Tilsit, this area fell to the Duchy of Warsaw in 1807 and returned to Prussia after the Congress of Vienna on May 15, 1815. As part of the Prussian Provincial Authority Ordinance of April 30, 1815 and its implementing provisions, the southern part of the old district of Deutsch Krone came to the administrative district of Bromberg in the province of Poznan. The district of Czarnikau was formed from this area on July 1, 1816. [2] [3] In a further district reform in the province of Poznan, the new district of Chodziesen was essentially formed from January 1, 1818, with the addition of smaller parts of other districts from the eastern half of the district of Czarnikau. [3] The cities of Budsin, Chodziesen, Margonin, Samotschin, Schneidemühl and Usch, the domain offices of Podstolitz and Zelgniewo (Selgenau) and a large number of noble estates came to the Chodziesen district. [4] The seat of the district office was initially Schneidemühl and from 1821 Chodziesen.

As part of the province of Poznan, the Chodziesen district became part of the newly founded German Empire on January 18, 1871. The conservative candidate Adelbert von der Schulenburg-Filehne won the 1871 Reichstag election. On March 6, 1877, the district and the district town were moved to Colmar i. Poznan renamed. On April 1, 1914, the city of Schneidemühl left the district and became its own district.

On December 27, 1918, the Greater Poland revolt of the majority of the Polish population against German rule began in the province of Poznan. In early January 1919, the district town of Kolmar was temporarily occupied twice by the Polish. Except for the south of the district around the city of Budsin, the Kolmar district remained under German control.
On February 16, 1919, an armistice ended the Polish-German struggles, and on June 28, 1919, with the signing of the Versailles Treaty, the German government officially ceded three quarters of the district (898 km²) together with the district town of Kolmar to the newly founded Poland. Germany and Poland signed an agreement on November 25, 1919 on the evacuation and surrender of the areas to be ceded, which was ratified on January 10, 1920. The clearing of the district to be ceded and handed over to Poland took place between January 17 and February 4, 1920. The county town of Kolmar was taken over by Poland on January 19, 1920. From most of the Kolmar i. Poznan became the Polish Powiat Chodzieski; only the municipalities of Schönfeld, Stöwen and Usch Hauland from the northern part of the district remained, as did the city district of Schneidemühl in the German Empire and came to the Prussian province of Grenzmark Posen-West Prussia. Schönfeld came to the Flatow district; Stöwen and Usch Hauland came to the newly formed network."

[Rockstar]

i came across a family copy of a hearing dated August 1892 Kolmar Pomerania in the German language of the time which identifies a farmer and a proprietor from a place called 'Milschhauland'. And someone from 'Milschhauland, Dreihaus'. Either my great aunt Hulda or my grandmother wrote in the margin 'county dreihaus'

Been trying to find more about geographical location and family history. All the native German speakers and family in the know have long since passed.

[vienna]

Based on the small bit of information I have. I think Milschhauland was nearer to the then German/Prussian? Provinz Posen. Id wager Milschhauland as a place nolonger exists or the name has since changed to something else.


Perhaps "Milschhauland" is not a where of itself but a where and an adjective...


I tried an old researcher's trick when dealing with foreign names, particularly Germanic names since, often, they are amalgamations of more than one word. Parsing out the subject word into parts can often give a lead to the actual meaning or reference of the subject word. I parsed "Milschhauland" into "Milsch Hauland" and found this:


http://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/database/48976


Look down the list to the 27th name, "Johann Emil", and you will see a reference to Milsch in the description...


Now we know "Milsch" is the full name of a geographical place, but what about "Hauland"? Well, I found this reference and possible explanation as to the meaning from someone else who was also confused by the suffix "Hauland":


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.german/RCTbhqpwaeU




Daryl,

I have SCHENDEL, HOHERZ, and SOMMERFELD ancestors from an area NW of Posen (Kreis Wongrowitz & Gnesen). One of my great-grandmothers was born in Golun Hauland. I asked the same question about a year ago and got two replies. Here's my query and the two responses:

My query:

I've often seen "hauland" (as best as I can deciper) after a village or town town name in Posen, Prussia. My dictionary defines hauland as a clearing or recently cultivated field. Is there a particular meaning when used with or as part of a village or town name.

Glenn Merkord
gmer...@zycor.lgc.com
Austin, Texas

First reponse:

>>> yes, the meaning being that the place was cleared from unsttled land and started from scratch with no prior history.
Virgin land.

…

Second response:

There is some scholarly dispute over the origins of the term "Hollandry" as it applies to villages in Posen and other parts of Prussia and Congress Poland. Some suggest it comes from the Dutch "Hollander".

Others say it comes from the German "hauen" - to chop down. Regardless of the origin, it came to describe a form of village government with elements of early democracy. It stood in contrast to a Schulzendorf where the Schulz either bought or inherited his position. In the Hollandry, the Schulz was elected. The term Hollander also became an occupational or status title, describing "a farmer who was settled and who gave his word that he would take wasteland and make it fertile and because of this he would receive certain privileges (according to Kremner and Dalchow)".

This info, (excepted for issue of disputed origins) from: Hollandrys in Posen by Max Grossart, The Weichsel Warthe, 1955, pages 119-122 (translation by Ewald Wushke in Wandering Volhynians, September 1995)

Jerry Frank



So it would appear your surmise of Milsch being near Pozen is correct and the "hauland" is more of a descriptor than a place name...




Hope this helps...







<O>

[Skybird]

I found a list in a book from 1779, with orphant children, and heir names and towns of origin were listed in old letters. By one entry on that list, "Milschau" was a town or village. No further information was provided.

"Milschauland" probably refers to the surrounding country, which can have been in Posen (a district that in past times was known as Chodziez), near Kolmar, which exists until today.

Could also have been the land around a hill or small river of that name. But I find none of that name.

Kolmar in today's Poland is not to be mistaken with Colmar in Elsass-Lothringen.

[Catfish]

re Vienna if it was "Milsch Hauland" before this "Hauland" may be a language change ("Lautverschiebung", sound shift?) from "Heuland", which could have meant "Land of hay", and then changed the name over times to Hauland. Only a guess.

[Aktungbby]

i came across a family copy of a hearing dated August 1892 Kolmar Pomerania in the German language of the time which identifies a farmer and a proprietor from a place called 'Milschhauland'. And someone from 'Milschhauland, Dreihaus'. Either my great aunt Hulda or my grandmother wrote in the margin 'county dreihaus'

Been trying to find more about geographical location and family history. All the native German speakers and family in the know have long since passed.having spent two hours on this and coming across a pre 1850 written reference to 'milsch zu..' in Polish, not Alsace Colmar as Skybird points out. Imho, the place name no longer exists since WW II. Would'nt tracking the family name be easier? There's more info oriented on names origens; but my Polish very poor...:shucks:

[vienna]

Found this website with a page referencing Milsch and, in the tab labelled "Map", there is a pin locating where Milsch was at one time:


https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20186023


Moving to the next name, "Kolmar", I found this referencing Milsch as it was in 1895, with a population of 350; it would appear Milsch may have ceased to exist as a separate entity after he fall of the Prussian State in 1918:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standesamt_Kolmar







<O>

[Skybird]

There also was a town or city named Milsch in the district of Kolmar (Posen) before WWI.



There also existed or still exists a city named Usch Hauland, Lugi Ujikjed in Polish, so Vienna and his Lautverschiebung may be on something.



Whatever, you are most likely an old Western-Prussian, Rockstar. :D

[vienna]

Just found this; milsch may be this town in present day Poland, Milcz; everything about the town seems to fit the parameters found thus far and it was under German dominion at one time; the search for the variant spelling was inspired by something my second ex, a German, told me about her mother's birthplace which had two names, one in Polish and a variant in German...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milcz


Coordinates: 53°2′35″N 16°51′35″E




<O>

[ET2SN]

Rockstar, I'm wishing you good luck in this search. :salute:

As I've mentioned in the past, ET2SN was literally how I signed off on forms in the Navy. Everyone could figure out who I was once they saw the last name on my shirt (and stopped laughing).

My mother's side of the family came to the US from a town in what is now Slovakia. My grandmother on my father's side of the family was Irish and my grandfather was where the trouble starts. His family probably came here from what is now the Czech Republic. I say probably because they just stopped talking about their past so they wouldn't look like "green horns" in the US.

Here's the kicker, when they emigrated the family name was changed by the clerks on Ellis Island because it was easier to spell. My real last name could be a variation of "Siemann" or "Zemen" or something in between. :doh:
If I knew the true spelling it would be easier to track down where half of my ancestors lived.

Which brings up my favorite boot camp story. :)
After we got our uniforms issued, we had to stencil our names on them. The guy in the rack next to mine was stenciling "ZEMEN" on his shirts. I showed him one of my shirts and said, "You know, we might be related..". His family came over to mine coal in West Virginia but that's as far as that lead went.

I had to give up and accept what I've got, even though I know its wrong. :doh:

[Rockstar]

To all of the investigators especially from Germany and The Great State of California a big salute. Thank you and I appreciate the linguistics lessons and your research :salute:

Btw the family names are (?) Zantow and Auguste Zantow nee' Butow. After great great grandfather Zantow died the widow Auguste later married a Hermann Steinke. The hearing regarded the inheritence given to the 3 Zantow children who came to America.

on a side note my mom said as a child in Wisconsin she remembered some church services and songs were still in German. Thats all gone now. Though she still loves to sing Silent Night in German

[Rockstar]

There also was a town or city named Milsch in the district of Kolmar (Posen) before WWI.



There also existed or still exists a city named Usch Hauland, Lugi Ujikjed in Polish, so Vienna and his Lautverschiebung may be on something.



Whatever, you are most likely an old Western-Prussian, Rockstar. :D

No doubt, explains the urge I always get to break out the 'stash wax and sport an 'imperial' style moustache. ;) Scares the hell out of all the amish around here. lol

[vienna]

The neighborhood where I grew up in San Francisco, the Noe Valley, was, in my childhood, a blue collar 'hood with predominantly equal halves of Irish and Italian descendants; there were a few Chinese, some Hispanic, and a fair amount of German descendants. In the 50s and into the early 60s, being openly German, as far as culture was concerned, was shied away from by the German descendants; the sting of WW2 was still a bit fresh; there was also a situation with some of the older citizens of San Francisco, who either survived the quake or were offspring of the survivors: the great bulk of real estate and buildings were insured by insurance companies headquartered in Germany; when the 1906 Fire & Earthquake devastated almost all of the city, the German companies quickly closed their offices and never paid off on their policies, leaving citizens who were already in dire straits with no where to turn; the animosity engendered by the companies actions were only compounded by WW1 & WW2. I don't recall ever seeing cultural gatherings or celebrations for the German portion of SF and that was unusual since almost all the other culture had at least annual celebrations; I never saw a German cultural event until I got to Los Angeles...














<O>

[Aktungbby]

No doubt, explains the urge I always get to break out the 'stash wax and sport an 'imperial' style moustache. ;) Scares the hell out of all the amish around here. lol NO DOUBT YOU LIE AROUND IN YOUR SPEEDO SWIMSUIT THINKING YOU MUST 'FIND YOUR OWN PLACE IN THE SUN"...HUMMING Heil dir im Siegerkranz:arrgh!: https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mabqomDgOZ1rstu3po1_400.jpg (https://panabasis.tumblr.com/image/57334755060)

[Rockstar]

The neighborhood where I grew up in San Francisco, the Noe Valley, was, in my childhood, a blue collar 'hood with predominantly equal halves of Irish and Italian descendants; there were a few Chinese, some Hispanic, and a fair amount of German descendants. In the 50s and into the early 60s, being openly German, as far as culture was concerned, was shied away from by the German descendants; the sting of WW2 was still a bit fresh; there was also a situation with some of the older citizens of San Francisco, who either survived the quake or were offspring of the survivors: the great bulk of real estate and buildings were insured by insurance companies headquartered in Germany; when the 1906 Fire & Earthquake devastated almost all of the city, the German companies quickly closed their offices and never paid off on their policies, leaving citizens who were already in dire straits with no where to turn; the animosity engendered by the companies actions were only compounded by WW1 & WW2. I don't recall ever seeing cultural gatherings or celebrations for the German portion of SF and that was unusual since almost all the other culture had at least annual celebrations; I never saw a German cultural event until I got to Los Angeles...














<O>




Being a German in the U.S. around the time of Wilson and WWI was not a good thing. Many faced persecution and were sent to internment camps. For Mr. Robert Prager being German was akin to being a black man in the south. It caused many to forsake their former country, culture and language and assimilate with haste.



https://www.historyonthenet.com/authentichistory/1914-1920/2-homefront/4-hysteria/