Battery safe

[Skybird]

I have quite a colleciton Lithium-Ion-batteries by now, for my cameras, for my computer deivces, for my e-bike... Most of the time thew thigns are noit in use, and I cosnidered it to be a good diea to store them in a way that maybe in case of one of them going off the damage by fire and blast would be contained. Problem is I find vwery different informaiton on how hot suchn fires would burn if they get enozgh oygene to really go off in a blast and keep burning.

I considered a cash box like this at first:
https://www.amazon.de/HMF-108-02-Geldkassette-Euro-M%C3%BCnzz%C3%A4hlbrett-schwarz/dp/B003HIL59M/ref=pd_sbs_79_4/259-9980476-6279155?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003HIL59M&pd_rd_r=dd676994-a8da-44ac-b88b-0799e09bfe3d&pd_rd_w=wPsr0&pd_rd_wg=0mYsB&pf_rd_p=184816e4-edb5-4587-8faf-776e0027d8d1&pf_rd_r=356MVRCYZ80HZYJZSJPY&psc=1&refRID=356MVRCYZ80HZYJZSJPY

It is big enough to also house an old 10" tablet.

Then I got the idea to save my e-bike batteries as well, and the only solution I found for that, are ammunition boxes. Like this one:
https://www.amazon.de/MFH-Gebrauchte-Munitionskiste-Werkzeugkiste-Metallkiste/dp/B06XBKHVPK/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=feuerfeste+Akku+Aufbewahrungsbox&pd_rd_i=B06XBKHVPK&pd_rd_r=18bcc99e-6eac-4b9a-a978-8e6e6355dc45&pd_rd_w=8BzHI&pd_rd_wg=He0sF&pf_rd_p=6d84c7ba-ae72-4e53-b9a4-5df18ccb370e&pf_rd_r=KJKJVJJM1KHP5JHYSBSK&qid=1575918731

Has anyone a better idea?

I think about kind of a sand or granulate, made of glass, ceramics or clay (as used in gardening), to protect the box against heat at the bottom. Again: any better ideas?

And has anyone the definite word on how hot a lithium fire burns once a battery went off? I found answers ranging rom 1400 to almost 2000° Celsius. How dependent is a lithium fire on oxygene? Does any of these boxes, does my whole idea even make sense at all? Or would any of these boxes just melt in no time?

[Jimbuna]

I've a fair number of those batteries as well and whilst I've admittedly not given the matter much thought I keep them in a cabinet draw located in a shaded area of the man cave.

[Skybird]

These batteries hold much more energy than a normal battery, and an ebike akku - well, I have two such batteries holding 500 Wh each. That should really be a security concern, cause if any of them has an electronic malfunction in the battery management electronic circuits, it can go off like a grenade - just hotter in temperature.

One or two weeks ago a Tesla exploded over here after it hit against a tree. The fire brigade kept it in a water tank for over one day because Tesla was not able or willing to tell them sooner how to extinguish the chemical fire in its batteries reliably. I also remind of the two fires aboard the Boeing 787, and the fact that such batteries in air freight must be reduced in their charging status to a maximum of 30%, and are object to further restrictions and safety regulations. In the EU, shipping batteries form seller to buyer via land mail also is subject to regulations and a mandatory obligation that such parcels must be specially marked.

Lithium is a highly reactive agent. You are not safe if you deal with lithium batteries like you would with just any normal battery. And ebike batteries really pack a punch. (Thats why I do not load them beyond 50% when storing them, and charge them to not more than 90% one or two hours before I do a tour. Ideally I keep them at 40-50%, so that I can use them for any quickly emerging need in city traffic, while having their potential power in case of desaster halved or more this way. It also increases the longevity of Lithium batteries if you keep them operating - charging and discharging - between 33% and 66%. Avoid the maximums, if possible. Lithium batteries love to fluctuate in the middle third of their capacity. I reset them just once per year.)

Lithium fires burn hotter than ordinary fires, and are much more difficult to extinguish. Water may not reliably work.

All this has nothing to do with "panic". Its just reasonable preparation, like using seatbelts when driving.

[Jimbuna]

Well there's certainly no disagreement from me.....always better to be safe than sorry.

[JU_88]

Well, lithium battery explosions are pretty rare. Nothing is without its risks I suppose.

[Reece]

I have always stored mine in plastic press seal bags in the refrigerator, always work 100% with virtually no loss over time, these are years old. :up:
BTW, fridges are generally very dry. :yep:

[Skybird]

I have always stored mine in plastic press seal bags in the refrigerator, always work 100% with virtually no loss over time,
You are kidding me...?! :o Lithium batteries in the refrigerator...??

That goes against everything that is usually said about it, plus that a cold lithium battery looses up to 40% of its capacity as long as it has niot warmed up again. In winter my bike battery loose 1/4 - 1/3 of their normal capacity, due to the cold (the battery cannot spend all of the storeed power if it is cold, it is a temporary effect only, but still limits the range of the bike). Also, the usual advice is to not store them below 10°C, since long storage below that mark could reduce their longevity in lifetime.

Below 10°C, on bike I pack my battery in neopren to support it defeating the cold (it warms itself over time when spending power, of course, but their is still wind form driving, and mopisture, rain, snow cooling it from the outside).

You are kidding me, right?

[Skybird]

Well, lithium battery explosions are pretty rare. Nothing is without its risks I suppose.
They grow in jhumbers due to the spreading of bikes, rollers, ecars - and Surface tablets made by Microsoft. :O:

https://www.askwoody.com/2019/original-surface-books-with-swollen-batteries-a-cautionary-story/


https://www.askwoody.com/2019/microsoft-refuses-to-clarify-policy-on-replacement-surface-pro-4s/

Fire brigades conduct special training courses for their firefighters as well. I think, honestly said, the problem gets talked down and hidden by interested circles in politics and industry. And by Boeing and Microsoft anyway. :O:

Anyway, since nobody comes up with a better idea, I think I go with the ammo box. Should be sturdy and air-tight, if the rubber seals still are "fresh". But the box in the bathroom on a ceramics plate and away from bunring stuff, and thats how far I am willing to go with security regarding batteries. I will not buy a second safe just to put batteries into it. :D

[JU_88]

Well unfortunaley their replacement is still being touted at the hydrogen fuel cell battery, which we dont have yet because depite their green efficency, they are even more 'explodey.' :O:

But our planet may be running abit low on lithium in the not too distant future, so they better hurry up.

[Jimbuna]

Well unfortunaley their replacement is still being touted at the hydrogen fuel cell battery, which we dont have yet because depite their green efficency, they are even more 'explodey.' :O:

But our planet may be running abit low on lithium in the not too distant future, so they better hurry up.

:haha::up:

[Reece]

You are kidding me...?! :o Lithium batteries in the refrigerator...??

That goes against everything that is usually said about it, plus that a cold lithium battery looses up to 40% of its capacity as long as it has niot warmed up again. In winter my bike battery loose 1/4 - 1/3 of their normal capacity, due to the cold (the battery cannot spend all of the storeed power if it is cold, it is a temporary effect only, but still limits the range of the bike). Also, the usual advice is to not store them below 10°C, since long storage below that mark could reduce their longevity in lifetime.

Below 10°C, on bike I pack my battery in neopren to support it defeating the cold (it warms itself over time when spending power, of course, but their is still wind form driving, and mopisture, rain, snow cooling it from the outside).

You are kidding me, right?
No, once out of the fridge I let them warm up to room temp, (this is Australia) never had a problem, would be different if I froze it!! Hmm, I wonder! :hmmm:

Edit: Just took a 3.7v Li battery out after being in there over a year, measures 3.75v

[Skybird]

I'm perplexed, I admit.

First time I ever heard this. I dont say you tell not the truth, I am just perplexed. :shucks:

[Skybird]

i searched it up again, but while it is said lithium batteries are well stored at 40 to60 percent charging and relative coolness around 15 degrees, refrigerators are warned against, mine for example runs at 4 degrees. Such cold reduces the longevity of thr battery and kills the maximum charge it can hold over time, and i do not mean the temporary performance drop you face when running a battery cold, and thst grts reversed when the battery reached normal temperature. you run the risk of condensed water causing a shortcut or damaging the electric components of thr battery management system thst bike batteries include in the battery shell.


relative cold is fine, but extreme cold is not, practically everybody says. warmth also is to be avoided. my bike akkus cost 700 coins per piece, i think i pass on the refrigerator! maybe you have this extreme tip of yours because in australia you also deal with extreme warmth?

[Reece]

Well I certainly won't change, have stored my batteries, in general, in the fridge for many years, they always store and last well.
One good point with Li batteries that can explode or catch fire, this is not likely to happen in a fridge that is basically a cold box made of metal!! :up: