The Revelation of Greta: no heavens behind the heavens

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fdie_gre ta_apokalypse_kennt_keine_erloesung

Although we are all guilty, there are major culprits. The environmental crisis appears in the perspective of climate savers as a crisis of market-driven economics, suggesting an anti-capitalist thrust, because it is the industrial societies of the North, so the certainty, which are largely responsible for the destruction of nature. While environmental problems can be easily reduced to the friend-to-foe ratio, the treatment - better: non-treatment - of population growth by the „rebel camp“ shows that no opponent can be fixed here to whom one can base his moral appeals.
In the notion of climate saviors, „nature“ somehow replaces the proletariat: it is suppressed, exploited, destroyed. Since the Western market economy is considered to be a major cause, we find here the break-in point for a centralist, quasi-socialist policy, for example about environmental norms and their monitoring (which makes sense at first), could install a kind of ecodicture, planning and planning requires a controlling state. To save humanity, totalitarian visions are uttered without any shame. Thus, Fridays for Future calls for a global, total mobilization of resources to rescue, to an extent „similar to wartime“.
It is striking that the intersection between the climate hysterics and the no-border fraction is practically 100 percent. Characteristic of these movements are their maximum demands, which do not reveal an empirical limitation or any reference to reality. This is the motto of the „Extinction Rebellion“ because also succinctly: „Riot or extinction.“ That these movements as well as the demands for an unlimited immigration, especially in Germany so many believing followers, is no coincidence (see mine Essay „German Hysteria“ (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.achgut.com/artikel/die_deutsche_hysterie&xid=17259,15700022,15700043,15700186,15700190,1570 0256,15700259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhhWWrJufnw_m-BkQ0By2J1-Gxl1dg) on the Axis). Idealism, hypermorality, perfection, exaggeration and adherence to principles are downright striking unique selling points, even to their own self-destruction. So what could be more appropriate than to raise the issue of universal human rights or „climate rescue“ to a principle that must be applied in any case, whatever the cost? In this respect, the „climate refugee“ is the ideal synthesis of two self-convergent discourses.

[Skybird]

Somewhat complementing the above.


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschla nd%2Fschwarzer-kanal%2Fder-schwarze-kanal-hier-bleibt-man-lieber-unter-sich_id_11165063.html

[Catfish]

Who could ever blame good old capitalism for raping the world?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuindk2y804

[u crank]

Who could ever blame good old capitalism for raping the world?


Kinda rich, a song about the evils of capitalism from a guy who's entire success and subsequent wealth come from said capitalism.

[JU_88]

Yes global living conditions were so much better before capitalism, right? :hmmm:
Capitalism indeed has its flaws (as does everything else.)
It is by its nature more wasteful and destructive compared to alternatives. That said we have had the biggest era of overall peace and prosperity the world has ever seen and that is down to capitalism also, so some credit where its due.
Nothing is so black and white.

[Mr Quatro]

Capitalism explained:

There once was a Vietnam refugee who got a job as a janitor in a shopping mall ... He noticed three stores had closed in the mall. He asked permission to open one on his limited credit. The store did so well that he was able to obtain the other two stores (fast food I believe, but not certain).

Vietnam refugee janitor makes all three stores successful becomes a millionaire and returns to Vietnam for a visit bringing artificial limbs with him for his handicap countrymen.

True story :yep:

[mapuc]

It's nothing wrong with a person who start his or her life as poor and become rich as old-it is how they became rich..did they hurt other people in the effort to become rich then its not ok(not by me it ain't)

Environment and the climate thing.

The only thing I can say is the biggest looser is us the ordinary people or the voters who fall for all those fairy tales the politicians tell the climate-worried people or voters.

Markus

[JU_88]

I freely admit I'm quite ignorant on the subject of man made climate change, what the exact science is, and where peoples motivations lie on both sides of that debate is sketchy at best.
but simply - to go with the hippy activists and Gretas who later then turn out to be wrong- nothing really bad happens. To go with the neocon denier types who then later turn out to be wrong, well then we are royally screwed.
So id be inclined go with the hippies on that one :P just to err on the side of caution. but i'm not about to superglue my self to a road in protest or start foaming at the mouth when people merely suggest my instincts are wrong.

Chances are we screwed anyway later by a comet or something but at least we can say that was beyond our control.

[Reece]

Chances are we screwed anyway later by a comet or something but at least we can say that was beyond our control.
Not if we're all dead!! :oops::yep:

[Rockstar]

Not if we're all dead!! :oops::yep:




https://i.imgflip.com/3b7lma.jpg

[Catfish]

^:rotfl2::rotfl2: :up:

Yes global living conditions were so much better before capitalism, right? :hmmm:
Did i say that all capitalism or the idea behind it is bad? Has there really ever been a time without 'capitalism' if you define the latter as giving and receiving something for it, from exchanging goods to using money to ease it up? I know capitalism is defined by owning money, but if you have goods, like shells or wood or bread or whatever to trade to exchange it for something, there is not such a big difference? Is there any country in the world that does not run on capitalistic basics?
What i do not like is that it is used as excuse (people are so much better off with it) for justifying pure relentless greed.
What exactly is the reason for burning down rain forest to have more cattle, if not for making more money and fk the consequences for the rest of the world? Who do you want to make responsible?

I am just not buying Skybirds absolutist opinion that any try to improve general living conditions with focus on nature and environment is "bad" just because it is so cool of him to despise dumb Greta.
Wait until companies discover how much money can be made with environmental technology or 'saving the world' :03:

[Skybird]

What really is behind it all is a deep-rooting desire for destroying market economy and capitalism, and the burgoise society anyway.

[Skybird]

Opinion piece on the expensive german climate package just deciced by the government gangsters for 53 bn - money that they themselves do nto have to pay, but want to blackmail from the working people.


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tagesspiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fha rald-martenstein-die-grossdeutsche-klimarettung-wird-scheitern%2F25041516.html


And the Greens in Germany? They just announced they want to battle against the climate package in the Bundesrat, because they want it uch, much worse, and push expropriation and totalitarianism to a new climax unseen since the GDR and the Third Reich. As some Green sympathiser last year said on some demonstration: if somebody owns more than he wears in clothing and carries with his both hands this is evidence that the state needs to take control of his belongings so to fight greed and social injustice. When I red that last year, I had to swallow and for a moment I feared for my own wellbeing and life.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgflip.com/3b7lma.jpg

:):up:

[Catfish]

Opinion piece on the expensive german climate package [...] .

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2628245&postcount=5

[ikalugin]

Considering how the modern western middle class (especially on the internet) revolves around virtue (and virtue signalling) it is not surprising that they would support an extremist (due to her psycological condition she sees the world as black and white) child fighting the original sin (that noone can atone for fully) of man made global warming.

[JU_88]

Greta is 16, she like most 16 year old knows very little, she is just a tool or poster child. (literally)

The trouble is while I do care about environmental causes, I'm not so prepared to back activism like extinction rebellion and green new deal, when it quickly becomes apparent they have laced their environmental demands with many other unrelated political demands -usually related to 'social justice' some of it copy and pasted straight out of the communist manifesto.

its then quickly clear that the welfare of the planet is only half of what motivates them. the other half being, they just want power, and environmental activism is the tool in which to get it .

Its a shame, If it was sincerely about the environment, id support them. but that's not the entirety of what I'm being sold. Most of those who support these activist groups around the world are genuinely good/concerned people who maybe didn't read the small print.

Same with any political movement i guess, while the intentions of most are 'good' in some perceived way. Those leading the charge almost always have ulterior motives and some less palatable ideas on the back burner.
And what easier way for an extremist to climb the ladder than to hijack or leach off other popular pre-existing groups.

[Skybird]

All true, and I add to it this: any environment protection claim I cannot take serious anymore if no attention at all gets paid to where most of it takes place, and how isnaenly high the population level of mankind on this planet is. China emissions are higher than that of the uS and Europe together, and tiny Germany plans to flagellate itself to compensate? India openly threatens to boycott any climate protection efforts if the West resists to its blackmail for getting billions and billiosn transferred?

Its about destroying the buregoise society model, and to destroy market economy and capitalism, the latter notoriouly confused with monopolism.

What it should be about, is how to adapt to life in a warmer world. becasue we cnanot prevent the globe from heating up anymore. We stupidly and headlessly waste our finajcial ressourvces for a battle already lost, and then will lack these ressources when it is about adapting to the new world global wamring is creatign right now, all around us, everywhere.

Hysterical actionism. Collective brainwashing. Creating a new, a socialist man. Parasitism, at both directions. Thats what its all about.



Children in the streets? For them its a Riesengaudi. And they arwe tolerated to not attend school lessons, what child does not like that? What child says no to soft drinks, sweets and fast food? Some of the child "leaders" will enter politics as soon as they have left school. No need for them to learn a job or profession anymore. The crowd is applauding the tics of tomorrow here.

[JU_88]

Its about destroying the bourgeois up to a point, they want to tear down the mega rich and upper classes a peg or three, and redistribute their wealth and resources to the marginalized and down trodden.

but - not so much tear down the middle classes, because that means most of them - they are rather bourgeois themselves in the eyes of the working class, who tend to support capitalism and meritocracy despite being on a lower rung.

Because of this we have middle class who simultaneously punches both up and down, but they either cannot recognize it when they do the latter. or They justify it by shifting the focus on to someone even lower down, such as a refugee or another marginalized group they want to protect/uplift.

So we get the curious situation where white collars, Academics and journalists can now tell manual laborers and blue collars to 'check their privilege'. (and my god - its getting old)
This works in metropolitan / diverse cities, but it alienates the more homogeneous towns and rural areas. because there, you have a very different demographic at the bottom of the pile.

As soon as the left introduced Intersectionality, they abandoned those people, and the right was quick to scoop them up. And where else could they go?

[Jimbuna]

^On that we can both most definitely agree :yep:

[u crank]

Children in the streets? For them its a Riesengaudi. And they arwe tolerated to not attend school lessons, what child does not like that? What child says no to soft drinks, sweets and fast food? Some of the child "leaders" will enter politics as soon as they have left school. No need for them to learn a job or profession anymore. The crowd is applauding the tics of tomorrow here.

One has to wonder at what the long term effects will be of telling these young people tales of dire consequenses in regard to climate change. It's a scaremongering tactic designed to create hysteria. But what is the effect it will have on their mental and emotional well being in the long term? How will they handle the disappointment when nothing happens?

[Jimbuna]

They'll probably do what others have done before them....blame the previous generation.

[ikalugin]

https://twitter.com/DineshDSouza/status/1175848457191510016
An amasing bait.


https://savepic.pro/images/2019/09/23/Screenshot-2019-09-23-at-16.45.04.md.png

[Onkel Neal]

Kinda rich, a song about the evils of capitalism from a guy who's entire success and subsequent wealth come from said capitalism.

Bam! Right on the money.

[Catfish]

^ It seems Harison did not get greedy enough to burn down whole regions of rain forest like Bolsonaro to make more money?

[u crank]

It's about hypocrisy not who did what. It's about people who claim to be our moral betters who love to tell us how sinful we are while never examining themselves. We just had a stunning example of that here in Canada. Our crown prince of wokeness Justin Trudeau, who likes to lecture his subjects about all matters of social justice is a prime example of this hypocrisy. Donald Trump is a racist but who got caught wearing blackface? Not once but three times. Oops.

[Onkel Neal]

^ It seems Harison did not get greedy enough to burn down whole regions of rain forest like Bolsonaro to make more money?

No, of course not. However he was a beneficiary of a system that relied on oil, clearing land for homes, and all the he terrible things we're speaking about. And he was greedy, don't make the mistake of thinking he wasn't. Like most celebrities and artists, he took every dollar he could get. Rock stars guilty of excess? Shocking.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/26/article-2514041-19A9455600000578-407_634x425.jpg

[Catfish]

Come on, you know exactly what i mean. So he made money alright, he lead a good life maybe wasting his wealth, drugs and all that, but still i think that Harrisons influence or better impact on nature cannot be compared to someone like Bolsonaro. And Harrison still knew to make a difference from certain deals to making money with less dirty hands, so to speak. So he criticized certain ways of making money, while he did it with guitar playing, singing, and being a hypocrite. There are less sympathetic ways to make money, which have a more negative impact on the planet.

[STEED]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/49795221/thunberg-if-you-choose-to-fail-us-we-will-never-forgive-you

Harsh words fall on deaf ears resulting in business as usual. I get the impression the poster girl is getting a verbal lashing directed at her is getting nasty.

[mapuc]

Greta Thunberg told world leaders that her generation would never forgive them if they failed to combat climate change.

Well by the experience I have with our youth here in Denmark and Sweden I feel the need to say what a bunch of hypocrite.

I have never seen a group who scrape down as they do.

Each time there are some youth festival, the area where they have been looks like....

So I feel the need to say...what a bunch of hypocrite

Markus

[STEED]

I am wondering how much what she said was her words and what was given to her by who. :hmmm:

Sorting out enviroment issues is one thing taking on capitalism is another. Yes she is blunt but is she being manipulated by others to push their agenda.

[mapuc]

You know what

I have my own theory on this climate change

However I have absolutely no evidence except all these science program I have seen throughout the years which have made me come up with this theory of my own.

Markus

[STEED]

I know one thing ripping up capitalism will not solve the problem.

[Buddahaid]

Sure it will, just look at how clean and void of any environmental disaster the socialist countries have been.....

The thing this idiot fails to see is people just gravitate toward the easiest way to do anything regardless of what social class, or government, they belong to. When you're starving you do anything it takes.

[Catfish]

Ripping up capitalism will not solve the problem, right. Not that i think that anyone could or wanted, for that matter.
Also hard to tackle her since she is not a typical politician.

Imho she is no hypocrite since she honestly believes what she says, right or wrong. I really think she herself has this opinion, no need to put words into her by parents or teachers. She is just too young not to pose questions she thinks are vital, instead of resigning and giving up.

[em2nought]

Imho she is no hypocrite since she honestly believes what she says, right or wrong. I really think she herself has this opinion, no need to put words into her by parents or teachers.


Who do you think "put" this opinion in her head? Education has been captured by the left.

[u crank]

The Tragedy Of Greta Thunberg

Sixteen-year-old Swedish climate change activist Greta Thunberg lives in the healthiest, wealthiest, safest, and most peaceful era humans have ever known. She is one of the luckiest people to have ever lived.

In a just world, Thunberg would be at the United Nations thanking capitalist countries for bequeathing her this remarkable inheritance. Instead, she, like millions of other indoctrinated kids her age, act as if they live in a uniquely broken world on the precipice of disaster. This is a tragedy.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/23/the-tragedy-of-greta-thunberg/

And Thunberg’s dream for the future means technocratic regimes will have to displace capitalistic societies. We can see this future in the radical environmentalist plans of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s New Green Deal, one supported by leading Democratic Party candidates. It’s authoritarianism. There is no other way to describe a regulatory regime that dictates exactly what Americans can consume, sell, drive, eat, and work on.

[Jimbuna]

Ripping up capitalism will not solve the problem, right. Not that i think that anyone could or wanted, for that matter.
Also hard to tackle her since she is not a typical politician.

Imho she is no hypocrite since she honestly believes what she says, right or wrong. I really think she herself has this opinion, no need to put words into her by parents or teachers. She is just too young not to pose questions she thinks are vital, instead of resigning and giving up.

Could well be the case but either way it is a hard one to call.

[JU_88]

Yeah its to safe to say Greta is genuine in what she believes (or has been led to believe). Either way, she doesn't speak on behalf of the youth, she speaks on behalf of environmental activists.

I can see her getting nominated for Nobel peace prize and getting a lot of love from the progressives crowd for a while, but after that she will be forgotten.

Making a raw emotional speech is high risk as it is, but anger a despair doesn't usually resonate well. To get people on you side, you have to get them to like or sympathies with you on some level. And you cant do that if you only give off negative vibes with a pinched psycho face and a few tears.

Though Greta is not too far from adulthood.
I have low regard for anyone who uses /manipulates a child to push an ideology or agenda. Its a dick move, and becoming ever more common.

[STEED]

Yeah its to safe to say Greta is genuine in what she believes (or has been led to believe). Either way, she doesn't speak on behalf of the youth, she speaks on behalf of environmental activists.

I can see her getting nominated for Nobel peace prize and getting a lot of love from the progressives crowd for a while, but after that she will be forgotten.

Making a raw emotional speech is high risk as it is, but anger a despair doesn't usually resonate well. To get people on you side, you have to get them to like or sympathies with you on some level. And you cant do that if you only give off negative vibes with a pinched psycho face and a few tears.

I take into account her medical condition but as JU pointed out her speech will not go down that well. Did she write it all or some one else or her speech with edited by someone. I suspect the pressure of the posted girl will get to her sooner or later.

[Jimbuna]

One retort of a great many I suspect.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0STdDSp/71151383-534149950727635-5995596928706936832-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[ikalugin]

Ripping up capitalism will not solve the problem, right. Not that i think that anyone could or wanted, for that matter.
Also hard to tackle her since she is not a typical politician.

Imho she is no hypocrite since she honestly believes what she says, right or wrong. I really think she herself has this opinion, no need to put words into her by parents or teachers. She is just too young not to pose questions she thinks are vital, instead of resigning and giving up.
I would point out that if you criticise, you would be attacked for doing so, with allegations of being biggoted against disabled/young/female people, being a heretic for not subscribing to the most radical climate change related beliefs possible, even if you only criticised her statements, not her character or person and made a reasoned, sourced argument.

[Catfish]

^ True.
On the other side there a lot of people already despising or looking down upon challenged persons (for the lack of a better word) by pure gut feeling, and are searching for arguments that sound reasonable (to serve their already existing point of view).

[Catfish]

Yeah its to safe to say Greta is genuine in what she believes (or has been led to believe). Either way, she doesn't speak on behalf of the youth,
Hmm i think some billion kids demonstrating seem to support what she says, so she at least speaks for some on their behalf.

[...] she speaks on behalf of environmental activists.May well be, though i would not completely deny her having some own thoughts.

[Skybird]

Yeah its to safe to say Greta is genuine in what she believes (or has been led to believe). Either way, she doesn't speak on behalf of the youth, she speaks on behalf of environmental activists.

I can see her getting nominated for Nobel peace prize and getting a lot of love from the progressives crowd for a while, but after that she will be forgotten.

Making a raw emotional speech is high risk as it is, but anger a despair doesn't usually resonate well. To get people on you side, you have to get them to like or sympathies with you on some level. And you cant do that if you only give off negative vibes with a pinched psycho face and a few tears.

Though Greta is not too far from adulthood.
I have low regard for anyone who uses /manipulates a child to push an ideology or agenda. Its a dick move, and becoming ever more common.
Nobody dares to mention something that should be obvious: that an autistic personality tends to paint things black and white, 1 and 0, and by that easiyl can entangle itself and trap itself in conflicts with others as well as conflicts between perfecitonism and idela on the one side, and reality and pragmatism on the other side.
It takes an autist long time, man years of riping in the adult world to overocme this trap and to learn how to live his life without leaving a smoking battlefield behind him at every day's sunset.



That they make an autistic, infantile child with - by consequences of the first - quite pedantic, totalitarian, tyrannic mindset an icon of light and global salvation, tells more about the stupdity of people, than about Holy Greta the Messiah's Sista.

[Catfish]

So we have some dictators, some more or less democratic statesmen, some presidents and ministers with disabilities, and a new autistic messiah, and we follow them.
What does this tell us about the state of humanity?

^^^@Jim re the lawnmower :haha: :up:

[u crank]

A bed time story for Greta. Sleep well. :D

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/09/23/a-message-for-children-about-climate-change/

[Jimbuna]

^ I enjoyed that :yep:

[JU_88]

Hmm i think some billion kids demonstrating seem to support what she says, so she at least speaks for some on their behalf.


Teachers: "Hey kids, do you want a day off school to go to a climate protest?"
1 billion kids: 'yes please'
Ask them to give up a Saturday for it and then see how many turn up. Just saying.

And where did this 1 billion figure come from anyway? that's an 8th of mankind And probably about half the worlds children. I really doubt it was that much, but if it was - that's probably the most successful protest turnout in the history of the world.

Edit, from what i can see from multiple sites, its estimated at around 1.1 million. so I'm assuming you made a a typo.

[ikalugin]

^ True.
On the other side there a lot of people already despising or looking down upon challenged persons (for the lack of a better word) by pure gut feeling, and are searching for arguments that sound reasonable (to serve their already existing point of view).
It doesn't matter why those arguments are made or who makes them, as long as they are reasonable and well sourced.


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/1984-george-orwell/590638/
I would remind you about the section on the left wing double think in that article.


You should be wary of judging the argument on the politics of it's proponent or worse still on the nature of said proponent.
As such, while I do agree with skybird that her psycological condition does contribute to her views, I tend to go after her views rather than after her condition. The problem I see is that should I oppose her views in a debate, I would be accused of being a man of poor character, ie a biggot.

[JU_88]

Agree that outright attacking some one like Greta is ridiculous.
She is very low hanging fruit.
Best to keep focused on what the Adults (those actually in power) are doing.

[Catfish]

[…] And where did this 1 billion figure come from anyway? […] Edit, from what i can see from multiple sites, its estimated at around 1.1 million. so I'm assuming you made a a typo.
Let's just call it Alternative Facts, this was such a fascinating Newspeak term i intend to use it as often as possible :D

Or then not, yes it is a typo :oops:. So round a million it was. Should i re-edit it? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Did anyone else notice the stare she gave to Trump?

https://i.postimg.cc/3xY7JCjT/EFPITfu-W4-AE-ve-N.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Catfish]

It doesn't matter why those arguments are made or who makes them, as long as they are reasonable and well sourced. […]
Theoretically, yes. However you often can expect a certain opinion or politics from persons with a certain political background. E.g. you will seldom find a political left-winger support a company's decision to cut loans and fire Workers, even if there may be reasons for the latter that not necessarilay have to do with greed, but economical reasons to save the company as a whole.
What i mean is a lot of people choose sides and then begin to search for reasons and arguments supporting their pre-fixed opinion, left and right.

But yes i did get your point. Also "The crucial issue was not that Trump might abolish democracy but that Americans had put him in a position to try. Unfreedom today is voluntary. It comes from the bottom up."

And a good TheAtlantic article it is, though i do not entirely agree with the author in all points; thanks for posting!

[JU_88]

Let's just call it Alternative Facts, this was such a fascinating Newspeak term i intend to use it as often as possible :D


Fair play :03:


Did anyone else notice the stare she gave to Trump?

Yes, Quite a few noticed :haha:

[Rockstar]

"You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words and yet, I'm one of the lucky ones," Thunberg told the assembly, her signature long braid swept to the side. "People are suffering, people are dying."

I guess if an adult cant win the argument they will prey upon lessor developed minds of children to do their work for them. What a sad state of affairs this has become. IMO those were not the words of science they are words of a frightened and abused child. Fekkin animals.

On a side note give the poor kid a break. She most likely had to be taught early in her childhood to make eye contact.

[Onkel Neal]

https://youtu.be/bW3IQ-ke43w?t=48

Wouldn't it be funny if in 50 years it all comes true, and the world ecology death spirals into a Venetian hellscape... she would be the Messiah.

[August]

"You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words and yet, I'm one of the lucky ones," Thunberg told the assembly, her signature long braid swept to the side. "People are suffering, people are dying."

I guess if an adult cant win the argument they will prey upon lessor developed minds of children to do their work for them. What a sad state of affairs this has become. IMO those were not the words of science they are words of a frightened and abused child. Fekkin animals.

On a side note give the poor kid a break. She most likely had to be taught early in her childhood to make eye contact.


Who knows what these two taught her:


https://i.imgur.com/9SCpS9ol.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

You think they'll take their show to China next? I hear those billion or so people are major contributors to global warming.

[JU_88]

@August, yeah, that might explain a few things. :):hmmm:

I don't know, but I'm trying my best to tell my kid what certain people believe politically without casting negative aspersions,
I want him to weigh it up and make up his own damn mind, rather than just blindly copy me or his mother.

[Skybird]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Radich-Galleonsfigur.jpg
May be placed in the front, but doe snot lead. The course plotting and commanding and managing gets done on the bridge where the passengers usually have no entrance.


Beyond that I stick to it: much of her behaviour and her pedantic lecturing and intolerance is expression of her Asperger personality that means that the individual finds it hard to tolerate variance, diversity, aberation from usual routines and norms the person is used to. The sensory management is easy to get overflooded in these persons, causing pain. Her parents also have a history of psychological problems and dysfunctional personality (schizophrenia, borderline, panic attacks [of which Greta occasionally suffers, too]). When I recall a few scenes when her face, mimic and gesture changed and she lost almost self control, I do no longer take it as impertinence or pedantism anymore, but a couple of red lights on my psychological surveillance boards starts flashing. I wonder whether she really is still in touch with reality or has alredy launched for messianistic self-elevation that justifies every sacrifice - especially the sacrificing of others.



She certainly is extremely full of her self. But that is no wonder after such a party.

[u crank]

By encouraging or even requiring students to take stands when they have neither the knowledge nor the intellectual training to seriously examine complex issues, teachers promote the expression of unsubstantiated opinions, the venting of uninformed emotions, and the habit of acting on those opinions and emotions while ignoring or dismissing opposing views, without having either the intellectual equipment or the personal experience to weigh one view against another in a serious way.

Intellectuals and Society (2009)—Thomas Sowell

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Heh. So many people are going to be angry when she gets the Nobel Peace Prize. She'd actually deserve it, too.

[Skybird]

Heh. So many people are going to be angry when she gets the Nobel Peace Prize. She'd actually deserve it, too.
No, like so many who got the peace nobel and did not deserve it by the criteria set by the founder Alfred Nobel, she does not deserve it. It is an abuse of this prize. According to the founder of the prize it shall be rewarded once per year to people who "have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".

She did nothing of this, and did not achieve any of it.


The Nobel prizes for peace and for economics are extremely corrupted and abused these days. The pirze for economics is not even a prize founded by Nobel, but the Norwegian central bank I think, and they then abused the name of the dead Alfred Nobel becasue he could not object anymore.



I tend to take note only of the scientific Nobel prizes. Those for Literature, Peace, Economics I do not give a damn for. If I would be givne the pirze for Peace, I would even reject it, because I would not want to be mentioned in one breath with too many of the names on the list.

[Catfish]

Thunberg 'won' the 2019 Right Livelihood Award, known as Sweden’s alternative Nobel Prize.
So not the 'real' one.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-award-right-livelihood/climate-activist-greta-thunberg-wins-alternative-nobel-prize-idUSKBN1WA0L8

"While liberals see her as courageous for telling the truth about climate change, right-wing critics depict her as a liar or hypocrite, suggest her parents have manipulated her or portray her as the ringleader of a socialist conspiracy."

She wrote on Facebook in February that “there is no one ‘behind’ me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.”

She probably will not get the real Nobel prize:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nobel-prize-peace/a-nobel-for-swedens-greta-thunberg-a-tough-decision-for-prize-committee-idUSKBN1WA18Z

So she denunciates 'world leaders' .. quoting the usual right wing comment when Trump did it again: "A long as s(he) pe..s off the right people..." :D

[JU_88]

Sure, well fine, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt on that.
I'm fine with what she is doing, its just not in the most effective way.
we don't just cave in to anyone who gets angry and cries.
People need reasons more than emotions.

[Skybird]

Thunberg 'won' the 2019 Right Livelihood Award, known as Sweden’s alternative Nobel Prize.
So not the 'real' one.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-award-right-livelihood/climate-activist-greta-thunberg-wins-alternative-nobel-prize-idUSKBN1WA0L8

"While liberals see her as courageous for telling the truth about climate change, right-wing critics depict her as a liar or hypocrite, suggest her parents have manipulated her or portray her as the ringleader of a socialist conspiracy."

She wrote on Facebook in February that “there is no one ‘behind’ me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.”

She probably will not get the real Nobel prize:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nobel-prize-peace/a-nobel-for-swedens-greta-thunberg-a-tough-decision-for-prize-committee-idUSKBN1WA18Z

So she denunciates 'world leaders' .. quoting the usual right wing comment when Trump did it again: "A long as s(he) pe..s off the right people..." :D
So she wrote about herself at facebook, how impressive, many people do that, dont they. Her mother even wriote a whole book - about herself.


https://www.handelsblatt.com/arts_und_style/literatur/buchtipp-szenen-aus-dem-herzen-warum-das-buch-ueber-greta-thunbergs-familie-furchtbar-aber-wichtig-ist/24274034.html?ticket=ST-1810043-LxWTAddWGPWZk2vRjAdD-ap4


I say again: this family has a record of serious psychological/psychiatric issues. The Greta. The mother. The father. The younger sister. And they make a solid fortune with money-making from the Greta hype, so does the WWF with the donation campaign behind it.



The whole hype around Greta and Fridays for Future says little about climate, or about the Thunbergs. It says an awful lot, a depressing lot about the public and how it ticks and functions and allows to get manipulated. As an ex psychologist, both the freaky family biography as well as the public's reactions make me raising an alarmed left eyebrow. Its not good if such things are possible to happen due to such a questionable cause. It shows that fundamental principles of reasonably assessing events and circumstances in reality around us , are broken, are dysfunctional. In other words it shows not only what is not in order with the Thunbergs, it also shows what is not in order with ourselves.

[JU_88]

Meh, In a few of months, none of it will matter probably.

[ikalugin]

It would be a good thing to look back on in 40 years.

[Skybird]

In 40 years the flakes of ashes that we all got burnt down to due to global warming will have been swept away since long already by the waves of the raised oceans: five point seven three two meters minimum, I say!

[August]

Rising sea levels?





https://i.imgur.com/RTLMhiM.jpg

[JU_88]

In 40 years the flakes of ashes that we all got burnt down to due to global warming will have been swept away since long already by the waves of the raised oceans: five point seven three two meters minimum, I say!

And just before we all get wiped out we can use cutting edge technology to tattoo Greta's angry face on the moon.
It what she would have wanted.

[Catfish]

Rising sea levels?

https://i.imgur.com/RTLMhiM.jpg


So things have even improved, there obviously was no colour back then, I already realized that when looking at WW2 photos :D

[Onkel Neal]

AT least you don't have it as rough as this poor fellow.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-harry-eco-anxiety-leaves-me-struggling-to-get-out-of-bed?ref=home

Prince Harry says he is so crushed by the state of the planet that he sometimes struggles to get out of bed in the morning.

I guess he's going to cease travel on Elton John's jets (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49408915) and move into a modest eco-friendly home ASAP.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9356/production/_108381773_gettyimages-803100.jpg

Nah.

[Catfish]

^ my heart bleeds for poor Prince Harry. [/sarcasm] :haha:



https://i.imgur.com/YWIvzaWl.jpg


Translation:
"German government under pressure. After Greta, also swedisch environment expert Soren criticizes german energy politics."

[Onkel Neal]

What's immensely interesting, to me, is this psychological conditioning of the next generation. I am not saying it is good or bad, but apparently it is real, and I hope I am around long enough to see it play out.

he reminded me of my own childhood. About 20 years ago, I was at a restaurant with my parents, reading a kid’s science magazine below the table. In a small box at the bottom of the page, it mentioned something called the greenhouse effect, caused by cars and factories. The effect could eventually screw up the entire planet’s environment.

My head jolted up. I interrupted my parents’ conversation, which was about something boring, like real-estate prices or which highway to take home.

“Is this real?” I asked, pointing at the magazine.

Oh yeah, definitely, one of them said.

“Is it getting fixed?” I said.

No, no, people don’t really know how to fix it.

And then I remember feeling something constrict in my chest. It was like the adult feeling of learning that a loved one is in danger, of seeing the comfortable world teeter on its axis. There was a problem with the entire planet, and everyone was just allowing it to go on?

In 1999, Caldwell was older than I am now, and the United States had virtually no national climate policy. Since then, I have gone to middle school and high school, graduated from college, moved across the country twice, spent years as a technology reporter, and covered climate change for four years. Since then, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has soared from 364 to 415 parts per million. But since then, the United States still has passed virtually no new national climate policy.

So, imagine, in developed countries at least (undeveloped countries aint got no time for this foolishness); people in the next generation will elect to turn away from our standard of living, travel, commuting, and building to "save" the planet. Maybe even enact laws to limit population. Interesting.

[Skybird]

Rising sea levels?





https://i.imgur.com/RTLMhiM.jpg
I honour the silliness of this ^ with this reply:


https://caseagrant.ucsd.edu/sites/default/files/broad-beach-malibu.png
Comparisons only make sense when comparing what is comparable and intermitting variables get systematically deleted. Else you end up with comparing apples with oranges.

In New Orleans they have significantly raised the height of the floodgates and dikes. Same they do in parts of Europe'S atlantic coast, especially the Netherlands. I wonder why.

The fact of a warming and rasing sea levels is not to be denied. My quarrel is with a.) the total values and the timetables given, b.) the belief that the planetary climate can be tackled so easily like they imply with the actionism of today, c.) the weighing of natural versus man-made causes for climate chnage, d.) the abuse of climate change arguments and claims for implementing massive wealth redistributions schemes across the globe and derstroyiong capitalism and market economy, and e.) that said actionism costs the resources that imo would be better invested in learning and implementing adaptation to life in a warmer world and with higher sea levels along coastline areas. I thus disagree with the consequences they conclude on, not so much with the phenomenon of global warming itself. Everybody talks about preventing climate change. I talk about adaptation to it.

[u crank]

I don't know if climate change is a problem that will cause a mass extinction as Saint Greta has hysterically told us. I can excuse what a sadly misinformed teenage says because teenagers say that kind of thing all the time. It's the adult enablers that I have a problem with. I just don't believe that they really believe their own dire predictions.

How many of them actually live a lifestyle that indicates that a mass extinction is coming. How many of them still live and work in air conditioned comfort? How many of them own cars and use them to go almost everywhere? An electric car is not much better because without fossil fuels the car could not be built and powered. How many of them still jet to vacation spots around the world? How many of them eat fresh food that is grown and transported to them by fossil fuel burning trucks? How many of them have all manner of electronic devices which a built with fossil fuel materials? I would say by casual observation that most of these climate alarmists haven't made any significant lifestyle change. Let's face it, if they really believed this there would be noticeable changes in society. Banning plastic straws isn't going to get the job done.

I don't think they really believe it but they want me to believe it. Show me that you really believe it and I'll start to pay attention.

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus.de%2Fgesundheit%2Fratgeb er%2Fpsychologie%2Fasperger-syndrom-kinderpsychiater-erklaert-wie-authentisch-die-auftritte-von-greta-sind_id_11185339.html

Her view of things must be seen in context. And the context must include her Asperger personality and mind, including the inherent imbalance and explosive temper that is also part of her biography.

Like the author, I am quite convinced that she does not stage or plays a role only, but that she is authentic. Which is what makes it so worrying seeing people blindly following her.

I am not about denouncing Asperger patients or ridiculing Greta for being one. But I want attention being paid to what that automatically means and implies. Media and public attention ignore it for fear of being politically incorrect and discriminating Asperger people if they point out that these people are "not normal". But hell, I cannot help it, the norm is a defined majority standard - and Aspergers are not normal. Its not as if they are impure, but they are different, and that brings both positve and negative differences.

It is a mistake to let an Asperger personality with its typical black-white-painting and pedantic fanatism define the world for all. Its dangerous. These people must learn to adapt to the world around them that is so different than they are themselves. And many, although not all, can learn to adapt to it, and by that interact smoother with other people and other opinions and other views. I have absolutely not the impression that Greta alraedy is there and that her family environment is overly healthy for her. And she is known for having episodes of total loss of control over temper and screaming attacks if she does not get her will or something happens that she does not like.

She has a lot to learn, still. For the time being, she is an interested child with both serious issues and a fanatical, obsessive interest in something that makes her seing the world black and white only. This obsessive interest for something makes Asperger people easily polarisizing, paintign things blakc and white, and necessarly attracting conflict.

[em2nought]

I don't think they really believe it but they want me to believe it. Show me that you really believe it and I'll start to pay attention.


:har:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dxop6u1RDsk/maxresdefault.jpg

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I'm trying to understand the "logic" of some people in this thread:

One famous person says something about preventing global warming, this famous person also uses private jets/lives in a big house/etc., and this proves you shouldn't try to prevent global warming how? (The last bit involves an unspoken premise, but pretty darn obvious. One could also argue it's a strawman...but let's face, the unspoken premise is pretty goshdarndiddly obvious)

[ikalugin]

I'm trying to understand the "logic" of some people in this thread:

One famous person says something about preventing global warming, this famous person also uses private jets/lives in a big house/etc., and this proves you shouldn't try to prevent global warming how? (The last bit involves an unspoken premise, but pretty darn obvious. One could also argue it's a strawman...but let's face, the unspoken premise is pretty goshdarndiddly obvious)
The point is that those people are then hipocritical and quite possibly are campaigning for reasons other than combating climate change. When combined with known cases of combating climate change being used as a vehicle to deliver radical left wing ideas rather than to actually contructively deal with the problem.....


https://republic.ru/posts/94791?utm_source=republic.ru&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=all
An article in Russian.

[Onkel Neal]

The point is that those people are then hipocritical and quite possibly are campaigning for reasons other than combating climate change. When combined with known cases of combating climate change being used as a vehicle to deliver radical left wing ideas rather than to actually contructively deal with the problem.....


https://republic.ru/posts/94791?utm_source=republic.ru&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=all
An article in Russian.

Yes, what he said.

Plus, I don't like being moralized to.

Also, all the people who are so gung ho about stopping climate change have no idea how much sacrifice and change in our lives it will take to have any meaningful effect.

[Buddahaid]

Yes, what he said.

Plus, I don't like being moralized to.

Also, all the people who are so gung ho about stopping climate change have no idea how much sacrifice and change in our lives it will take to have any meaningful effect.

But even a small change multiplied by millions makes a difference. There are some fairly easy things that can be done with only a small amount of effort by individuals. Recycling for one.

[Julhelm]

Yes, lets recycle here in the west while China builds 3000 more coal plants instead.

[August]

Yes, what he said.

Plus, I don't like being moralized to.

Also, all the people who are so gung ho about stopping climate change have no idea how much sacrifice and change in our lives it will take to have any meaningful effect.


Me either, especially when 99% of it is not about the environment but about politics and increasing government power. All these Eco-Nut plans and New Deals will crash against reality and human nature and if they actually succeed in making a meaningful effect on climate change it's only because their ridiculous ideas enacted into law have destabilized society to the point that it causes a major human die off in old fashioned ways like mass starvation and war.

[Onkel Neal]

But even a small change multiplied by millions makes a difference. There are some fairly easy things that can be done with only a small amount of effort by individuals. Recycling for one.

Maybe. I don't know exactly how much is required, pretty sure no one does. I really feel in my gut that it is not going to be as easy as people think. Seems like the eco people believe we can all agree to do something and make changes, and the problem is solved.

[em2nought]

Maybe. I don't know exactly how much is required, pretty sure no one does. I really feel in my gut that it is not going to be as easy as people think. Seems like the eco people believe we can all agree to do something and make changes, and the problem is solved.


It took longer for modern "man" to make a website for Obama Care than it did for those ol' timers to win WW2 if that's any indicator? :D

[ikalugin]

https://naked-science.ru/sites/default/files/images_custom/2019/09/excess_winter_deaths.png (https://naked-science.ru/sites/default/files/images_custom/2019/09/excess_winter_deaths.png) https://naked-science.ru/article/nakedscience/o-chem-umolchala-greta (https://naked-science.ru/sites/default/files/images_custom/2019/09/excess_winter_deaths.png)
Look what I have found. The authors allege that (relative to the local norm) cold weather kills people, across various climates and geographies. And that the global warming may actually decrease the number of deaths, even after accounting for heat waves and natural disasters.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

OMG...I never heard her speak. Just saw a snipper. She's INSANELY full of herself!!!

[johan_d]

http://www.theartofannihilation.com/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-political-economy-of-the-non-profit-industrial-complex/

[Skybird]

http://www.theartofannihilation.com/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-political-economy-of-the-non-profit-industrial-complex/
Thanks. Here is a German translation of the whole:
http://www.barth-engelbart.de/?p=216871

Further, for German tongues:
http://www.science-skeptical.de/klimawandel/greta-thunberg-we-dont-have-time-ingmar-rentzhog-und-der-club-of-rome/0017988/


Its like I said, Geeta is a monumental publicity stunt, driven and controlled by strong NGO interests in the background that do not so much care for environmentalists, but their own profits and power.


I have learned , however, now two slightly different tales on the bosses in the background controlling her. Names are different, but the basic principle of functioning is the same.

[johan_d]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/greta-thunberg-poor-countries-drop-dead


She is a Soros puppet.. nothing more.. globalists.

[Canonicus]

A David vs Goliath moment if I ever saw one...
I think we all know how it worked out for Goliath.

[August]

A David vs Goliath moment if I ever saw one...
I think we all know how it worked out for Goliath.


So you approve of using impressionable children as shills for fancy globalist causes then?

[u crank]

Greta Thunberg is a delusional and sadly misinformed person. She needs to get the facts straight. Only listening to climate alarmists and people who use her for personal gain has blinded her to the truth. It's a sad thing to see happening. What she needs to know is not a secret. It is public knowledge.

Yes, global warming is real and human-caused, but her vision of climate change as the end of the world is unsupported. The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimates that by the 2070s, the total effects of climate change, including on ecosystems, will be equivalent to a reduction in average income of 0.2 to 2 per cent. By then, each person on the planet will be 300 to 500 per-cent richer.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-on-climate-change-humanity-is-not-evil/

Finally, Ms. Thunberg tells us that if we don’t cut off fossil fuels by 2028, the young generation will never forgive us. This, however, is reflective of a blinkered first-world view. When the United Nations asked 10 million people around the world what they prioritize, they highlighted five issues: health, education, jobs, corruption and nutrition. In sum, they care about their kids not dying from easily curable diseases, getting a decent education, not starving to death.

Climate came last of 16 choices. That’s not because it is unimportant, but because for most of humanity, other issues are much more pressing.

[Skybird]

GT is a child that threw school early, gets manipulated, and has a mind that is extremely tunnel-viewed. The latter allows her to realise the object of her focus in greater detail or porecison or clearness than most orindar ypeople do - at the price of loosing the context in which the details are emnbedded and where they interact with other factors. Her dilemma, ihn this regard, reminds me a lot of what in statistics in classical terst theory is called the "reliability-validity-dilemma", the English terminology is different, but I do not know it. The dilemma says that high precision in reliability (=the precision by which a test measures the quality it measure) does at the cost of validity (=htre test measures what it actually shou,d measur ein theoretical cinstrructs), and vice versa. Due to her input and her mind, she may have "great reliability", but she has almost no validity.



In classical test theory, the dilemma cannot be solved. It must be worked around by not trying to test a theoretical constructin one battery, but it must be broken up into several parts which all represent various qualities of said conmstruct/theory, and then get indoiviodually tested with high reliability and low validity, and in a second step these reuslts hten get added together and get combined - which has it sown methodological and statistical problems again. For Greta, my analogy means she needs to get a wider mind, which is very difficult to achieve for an Asperger person and as that tends to be a fanatical perfecitonist and pedantist with a very narrow mind, and she needs much more education and information input from which her social environment is probably shielding her. Asperg people cna learn to widen their mind, in the menaing of leanrign to read the reacitons of othe rpeople correctly and understanding their meaning, although this does not mean that these patterns shown in the behaviour of others can ever have an emotional meaning for an Asperger. But they cna learn to arrnage themsleves with them, and not to colldie with others all time long, and then going off in a nuclear mushroom cloud time and again.



The question is whether the social enviuronment of Greta, inclduing her parents, are giving her this space to develope. I fear not. I fear she will turn increaiosngly into a pedantic, fanatical and non-empathic tyrant that more and more will show no scruples to let others pay the price for her pefectionistic, unreaslistic demands.



Therefore, a world following her, is lost.

[ikalugin]

It would be interesting to see how she ages, ie if we do not all die in 10-20-30 years, nor take the measures she pushes for, how would she cope?

[mapuc]

Maybe it's me who are interpreting the signals wrong ´cause

I seems to see a tendency of worship of this G.T.

Markus

[Canonicus]

So you approve of using impressionable children as shills for fancy globalist causes then?

Never said that,sorry...
I do ,however, find it much easier to understand her point of view than anything that might spew forth from the the mouth of a rabid, foaming at the mouth socio-path, malignant narcissist ,adulterer, and serial liar.

[August]

Never said that,sorry...
I do ,however, find it much easier to understand her point of view than anything that might spew forth from the the mouth of a rabid, foaming at the mouth socio-path, malignant narcissist ,adulterer, and serial liar.


Of course you do. Now I seriously doubt that the President of the United States has rabies but as usual there is no limit to the crazy accusations made by his detractors. Heck they even dug up Barney Frank the other day to accuse Trump of murder.

So yeah to all Trump haters, please keep it up. Please keep spewing that bile and invective. You're doing more to ensure his reelection than the millions in donation his campaign receives because of your false attacks.

[JU_88]

'Yeah, but what about Trump' is not really a valid defense of criticism leveled at Greta.
'Yeah, But what about....' is not really a valid argument for anything.

[vienna]

Maybe if the arguments were partially deflated they'd work better... :D






<O>

[THE_MASK]

Neo-liberalism is rife .

[Catfish]

^ Hmm, yes.

"Neoliberalism, ideology and policy model that emphasizes the value of free market competition. [...]associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism and free market capitalism."

"Neoliberalism's premise is that free markets can regulate themselves; that government is inherently incompetent, captive to special interests, and an intrusion on the efficiency of the market; that in distributive terms, market outcomes are basically deserved; and that redistribution creates perverse incentives by punishing the economy's winners and rewarding its losers. So government should get out of the market's way."

I do not think that 'Greta' can be accused of that.
However there has been a gigantic success for Greta:
Thomas Cook has cancelled all flights worldwide.

Ahem.

[Rockstar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cDaRYro2Xcw

[JU_88]

Neo-liberalism is rife .

And what would you rather have if not neo-liberalism?
because thats a dirty term^ to both much of the right and the equity obsessed far left.
As per Catfish's definition its pretty much what the western world has been running on for some time now.

[Skybird]

I am still wondering whether Sober meant "neo-liberalism" in a left meaning (=neo-socialism) or centrist meaning (=neo-libertarianism). Liberals are not liberal anymore, but more or less openly socialist and in favour of state intervention and planned economy. Caling somebody liberla today mostly means "left". What was "liberal" in the past, now is meant with the term "libertarian", in English even much more than in German, but even in German the terms "libertär" and "Libertarismus" have found entry.

[Skybird]

Some weeks ago, there was a German young woman with Down Syndrome on TV and in the media. She kind of vicously attacked the world of "normals" and said she wants to have many babies and wants them all to have Down syndrome as well so that "there may be many more people like me" and that Down syndrome becomes part of normality and all world turns Down. By that, she said, she wants to be recognised as part of "normality".


Dont get me wrong, I do not mock DS patients like I do not mock Aspergers as well. But both to me do not define any norm qualifying as "normality". And as a matter of fact Down syndrome means the individual often is a.) not really the brightest, but has a deficitary intellect, has b.) growth delays, and has c.) typical childish facial expressions. Thats part of the diagnosis. And the genetic defect goes not away just by the social environment acting as if it were not there.



All I could think about this flawed logic of this young woman and the sad state of thinking was somethign like "gnfghrrrrraaahhhhhh." What else could you comment with to such a messy logic? Intentionally wanting to raise the number of people with diseases or gene defects? Whats next? Clipping fingers of newborn to have more people with misfigured hands in the world and calling that a rise in "normality of misfigured hands"? Why not, I mean sexual mutilation of children is very much en vogue, too...



She was so unnormal and mentally limited that it completely escaped her that this way she only illustrated how very much not normal she is herself for sure.



I noticed no protest against what she said, not on TV and not in newspapers, instead both gave her the platform to spread this crap of sick opinion. And assuming by that that they, the plubnlishing paltforms, were so very tolerant.



And if the world and if the people give in to such flawed logic, then we all are doomed for sure, for the stupids take over the world completely.



Greta's pathetic speech at the UN about her "stolen childhood" and "I want you all to panic and be as afraid as I am afraid all day long, and then act", reminds me strongly of this. This holds no emotional appeal to me at all. To me it is a very strong evidence for how mentally/intellectually limited she really is. A girl with serious mental problems. An obsession that makes her quite imperial, intolekrant and totalitarian. Heaven may have mercy if she would become the ruler of the world - she would cause the killing of millions and sacores more - all for the good cause, of course.



She should not be given the red carpet at the UN. She should be in therapy, sorry, but thats the simple truth. The whole family should be, btw.


One comment to the video Rockjstar linked, put it best, saying something like "Nobody stole yourn childhood, greweta. Your parents handed it away." Because the parents have a psychopathologically relevant history of own problems.

[JU_88]

Yeah its funny one, from what I gather:

'Liberals' are what Moderate Right / Conservatives tend to brand most left of center, and now use it to describe those who are anything from a Moderate Left (who maybe be an actual liberal) to full blown Socialist/Communist/neo marxist.

Its mostly Far lefties that use the term 'neo liberal' to describe moderates, center left and right, all of which they consider to be 'right-wing' by their own metric.
As the 'neo liberals' they speak of typically support free market economy with some government intervention and social programs. A blend of restrained capitalism and restrained socialism. which is pretty much what we have now.

Then there is 'libertarian' which is for the least amount of government possible, yet that's somehow a 'far right' position to many on the far left. (because it ultimately equates to indirectly handing power over to co-orperations and the private sector). even though the true far right (as in neo nazism) are not in favor of limited government and the sovereignty of the indervidual at all :doh:

Far left and far right have alot more in common than they realize there. Their principles are very similar, they just disagree one which group deserves what, but they are playing the same game.
It like we have two far rights?,
the libertarian and the neo nazi.
Depends who you ask.

[Buddahaid]

The "liberals" can't use the old bad names to describe themselves and so bend the meaning further from it's origins

"Liberal government often adopted the economic beliefs espoused by Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and others, which broadly emphasized the importance of free markets and laissez-faire governance, with a minimum of interference in trade."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_liberalism

[Skybird]

Far left and far right have alot more in common than they realize there. Their principles are very similar, they just disagree one which group deserves what, but they are playing the same game.
They have a shared enemy: freedomö-.loving libertarians. Libertarians who prioritize self responsibility and freedom, cannot be corrupted by typical left or right party programs and bribes, and by that are a threat to the existing political and governmental systems both left and right- and the power interests of the acting persons.

As I reminded of before: the Nazis were socialists, too. Many people forget that or even never realised that. The third Reich was a socialist tyranny with a planned economy, massive expropritation of private property and production means, and added a strong taste of racism to this recipe. Hitler until the end said that there are no principle differences or divisions between Bolshewism and Nationalsocialism. Thats the reason why both regimes, Hitler'S Nazigermany and the USSR of Stalin, looked to similiar and commited the same type of atrocities, established the same kind of police states and planned economies. Later Mao did the same and joined the two. And many others.

You either have market economy and a free market, or you have regulation, then you have no free market, but a planned economy. This nonsense about third ways and social market economy is all bull, just hides the truth. A free market is social, and it is just. But Capitalism has an inevitable tendency for monopolism, like life has an inevitable tendency towards death, but nobody would conclude that life is in vein and trying to survive and fighting desease and trying to get old is pointless. So it is with Capitalism as well. Monopolies must be confronted, and thrown back time and again. Ever new generations need to fight the fight for physical survival, the fight for free, non-monopolistic market again and again. The biological being fights for survival and against death, the economical being fights fopr fre market bartering and against monopolism and reuglation. That is what we call "life". That is what we call "capitalism. Like life is not death, capitalism is not monopolism. Both have an inbuild antagonist that serves like a negative attractor: death for life, and monopolism for capitalism. Monoplism is not part of capitalism - it is its antagonist. It seems many do noo get this, and so they take both for the same thing.

Many criticsms of capitalism, are wrongly aimed. They often are correct in their claims, but adress the wrong receiver. The problem is not capitalism or free market, the problem is monopolism. I mean nobody would argue that the problem of disease is that life exists, the problem is germs, infections and this attractor named death.

Churchill put it well: "Some regard private enterprise as if it were a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look upon it as a cow that they can milk. Only a handful see it for what it really is--the strong horse that pulls the whole cart."

Shoot the horse, and see where you get with all your belongings on the cart. Not very far, I assume.

[JU_88]

Well you cant win, Monopolism is a possible out come in capitalism.
And you cant prevent it without some regulation or intervention. The Socialists are right about that one.
What they are wrong about, is empowering the State to the point that it becomes the all powerful monopoly itself.
The fallacy of 'it would be alright so long as it was me/us in charge'

I think the verdict is in pretty much, capitalism is wasteful, highly exploitative, and not everyone is good at it.
Yet its responsible for more prosperity, innovation and increased living standards than any other system in existence.
Biggest danger is, it can lead to a massive wealth divide. Leading to as sense of unfairness and resentment, (especially when the rich play dirty and rig the system) leading to people wanting to burn it all to the ground. :)

Socialisms solutions are overkill, as well as being rather over optimistic, e.g just hand it all over to the state, let them control the bulk of wealth & resources, and trust they will act fairly towards the indervidual, not run up a massive deficit and continue to innovate.
Three things its been proven time and time again they are completely incapable of.

The Marx dream of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Seems to be just that - a dream.
In practice what happens is that it ends up persecuting which ever groups it saw as 'advantaged' when it took power. Seizes their assets & businesses and then squanders them because they don't poses the skills to sustain those assets & businesses, so eventually they drag everyone down to the same level of mediocrity at best and total misery at worst.
People feel trapped, resentful and powerless - once again, leading to people wanting to burn it all to the ground. :)

Maybe....
Too many Capitalists try to exploit the tools of good for evil (and succeed in the evil)
Too many Socialist try exploit the tools of evil for good (and fail to do the good)

Either select Cooperations rig the system, or state does. Pick your poison.
Capitalsim wins because on an indervidual basis it tends to provide the better out come for most people, few will make it to the top - but most will do ok out of it.
Its possible for Socialism to allow people to do ok too, but it removes most of the possible routes to 'climb up' that capitalism provides, (that's the price of equity) and that's a deal breaker for most.

Perhaps power just doesn't do good things to people, yet as a species we are dependent on hierarchy.
Quite tragic.

[Skybird]

Well you cant win, Monopolism is a possible out come in capitalism.
Its not just a possible outcome, its an atractor that inevitsably gets moved onto. So can life not avoid age and death. But it can create new life. That what lives must die, is not a defeat, nor is it an argment against life.
A consumer population that is aware of this and would be taking this into calculations when deciding its buying behaviour, is the antidot to monopolism, since then companies would necessarily fail to lead them into dependency. The other antidot is creativity and competition, and preventing that lobbyists hijack the legislative and political will-building, but must face the ever new competitors and their revolting ideas. See how the internet brings down the banking sector. The FIAT money system is not kept afloat becasue it is competitive - it is afloat only due to endless political interventionism that distorts the market. On a free market, FIAT money would be dead since long. Or would never have arrived at all. The state interventionism is the source of most of the problems we have today. And this interventionism is being done to give career politicians a reason to claim their existence. This is also the entry gate of lobbyists beign send out to help establishing monopolies for corporations.


And you cant prevent it without some regulation or intervention. The Socialists are right about that one.
I doubt that. Also, once yo allow the first exception fromt he rule, the first intervention by state, you have oepned pandorras box and ensured that from now on ever ore interventionism and eegulatiosn will follow. You set a precedence, and states util today always got ruined by this, in the end. Without exception.

A state shall only collect fees for building defences and securing the borders. Already with state police services I have a problem, for i see no reason why not companies should provide security, law enforcing and jurisdiction. Just that they must be prevented to build monopolies, there must be competition and there must be total transparency. Cartels must be prevented at all costs. Then you have rivalling security providers who see a functioning system as a cost-reducing factor and thus have a strong incentive to do a good job and maintain good jurisdiction ties with other companies when it comes to courts and laws . Because contractors that they are, they can and will be held liable if they do not fulfill the contract for which they get paid. They can be sued, their contracts cancelled. A state cannot be sued, cannot be held liable, cannot be replaced with another competitor on the market. He dictates the service prices. He provides them good or badly. He must not be transparent. He can change contracts UNILATERALLY: And cannot be held responsible for that either. States are a mess. A tyranny. Always. Inevitably.


What they are wrong about, is empowering the State to the point that it becomes the all powerful monopoly itself.
You fall to a logical fallacy there, I think. States are the condensate of monopolism, they are monopolism's manifestation and expression. You cannot avoid to have states being monopolists.


I think the verdict is in pretty much, capitalism is wasteful, highly exploitative, and not everyone is good at it.
So is socialism, if not even more so. And yes, capitalism is somehtign not everyone is good at. The point is if peopel are free to do what they want (within the range of the Golden Rule (that I agree should, and must be enforced by all, everywhere, always), they can go and try to find their niche that meets their individual capabilities and possibilities. That is justice, that is fairness. Not everyone can be an industrial captain and company founder. On a free market everybody is free to try finding his place. And if an independent existence is not available due to lack of skill and wits and options, then people must choose to work for somebody else. And I tell you, many people do not even want to be entrepreneurs, because that means a lot of work and responsiblity and risks. Most people are quite happy to work in a dependent job environment. Konfuziius had it right when claiming that in an dieal society, everybody has some lowers below him and some highers above him. Key is that companies as well as regions and local facilities meet not an oversupply of workers and employees, but must compete for them, else the wages system will not stay intact and monopolies in job offerings will emerge, which of cours eis not good again. Thats why I see labour migration critical. Regions, companies must be in need to comete for talents and skilled people, and to be competitive, they must get their homework done and be attractive themselves. Everybody wins!


Yet its responsible for more prosperity, innovation and increased living standards than any other system in existence.
Biggest danger is, it can lead to a massive wealth divide. Leading to as sense of unfairness and resentment, (especially when the rich play dirty and rig the system) leading to people wanting to burn it all to the ground. :)
Maybe that is the natural antidot. Violence is no unntural state or method in nature. It is omnipresent, and quite common. Very often as the method of choice to defend oneself from the violence somebody else is directing against oneself. But before it goes this far, people decide on the market, they build their bartering decisions, and they are responsible for them and the consequences they bring. Maybe they should not want to buy always at the same company because they have this one item, and by that allowing the monopoly that they better should avoid? Diversification is something not only governments should take into account when deciding on the nation's external ressource and energy supliers - it is in the individual's own interest as well.
Schools must teach these contexts and ideas, of course. For which it is inevitable that the state holds no longer the monopoly for public education. It mst be destroyed, like so many other state monopolies as well.

The Marx dream of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Seems to be just that - a dream.
The first part of it is a nightmare . It means the subjugation of the individual under the collective interest. We call that totalitarianism. The second is not fair, is not just. I want it being replaced with "to each according to what he deserves".

We see the consequences of "according to his needs" in germany currently, with this mass migration. Many volunteer helpers have given up by now and are desillusionised, because they report that three years ago they started enthusiastically and were met by friendly thankful foreigners - who then learned that if they just stick to their customs and culture and refuse to work and integrate and reject to clean their houses stairways, according compensations and service will be provided by the state. By this help of the state, the will for integration and adaptation has been actively reduced, instead the demands levels by newcoming migrants is being risen. No, please not "to everybody according to his needs", keep it fair instead, give justice a bigger stand. "To each according to what he deserves. " Its also a good boost for own pride. It leaves people the choice to achieve by themselves. Look at wellfare households, how low self esteem there often is, and how willing some parasites accept to reduce their life goals since then they can make a living at state expenses. Not all, but quite some - numbers growing, and now the migrants add to these numbers tremendously.

Too many Capitalists try to exploit the tools of good for evil (and succeed in the evil)
And too many lifeforms turn ill and get infectious. That is not argument against life. Corrupt or monopolistic"capitalists" (we all should be capitalists) are destroying the free market. People have it in their hands to not let them get this far. The answer to monopolism is - competition amonst rivals and diversification of buying decisions. That everybody is subject to regulation by market changes. The value of labour as well as the value of items and resources is decided by bartering market participants. They do the regulation alltogether, while none of them can ifeunce it all by himsaelf. its a bit reminding of the blocchain tehcology. everybody who is part of the blockchain, particpates in prviding the securit yin it, but nobody has the power to dicate the system the standards of security. Thinking of the invisible hand by Adam Smith.



Either select Cooperations rig the system, or state does. Pick your poison.
Thats why I am "zero state", and am pro "local region". Thats why I am against big corportions and globalization, mega states and supranational organizations. Small regional business and trade structures. By the way, this interpretation and understanding of "small is beautiful" is at the very basis of germany'S highly successful business model, the socalled Mittelstand and linked to it the so-called "duales Ausbildungssgssystem". (Add to this the fact that nowhere else in the world the quota of family ownership of companies is as high as in Germany). No other country does this like germany does. Trump sings songs on the consequences of it, although he does not meet the notes. :)

Capitalism wins because on an indervidual basis it tends to provide the better out come for most people, few will make it to the top - but most will do ok out of it.
Its possible for Socialism to allow people to do ok too, but it removes most of the possible routes to 'climb up' that capitalism provides, (that's the price of equity) and that's a deal breaker for most.
Perhaps power just doesn't do good things to people, yet as a species we are dependent on hierarchy.
Quite tragic.
A capitalist societyy necessarily will always include inequality. It must, else there cannot be innovation and competition. Its is about the difference, the will of those ranking lower to reach higher, that injects ever new movement and energy into the system. The former GDR and the Warsaw Pact economies were good examples of what happens if this incentive gets removed. Life paled. Economy stagnated, petrified. Corruption at the top of the hierarchy nevertheless blossomed.



Life means constant chnaging. No change and no movement: life dies.


The sad truth that we have instead, is a social-psychological fact that was even experimentally supported. When people in a group context are left with choosing between these two alternatives: to have very few belongings and "wealth", but everybody having the same, and alternatively everbody having more in total, but at the "price" of needing to accept a certain spread of differences between people, a certain level of inequality (while still everbody havign more than in the first group) - then the huge majority of people to my great depression prefers to accept equality of everybody in the same misery. -This is the point where I cancelled my solidarity with common society. There is material truth in the saying that in socialism all people are equla and united in the same misery. Most people want it this way. Its fair that they get what they want. And that those not wanting it can flee from them.

[Skybird]

That could have been said by me.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-49922779/vladimir-putin-criticises-greta-thunberg-s-un-speech-on-climate-change

Russian understatement in the beginning. Who said the man has no sense of humour? :D

[johan_d]

Picture deleted for profanity.

[fumo30]

Is she really 16?
To me she looks more like a 10 years old brat.

[ikalugin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak
Need more nuclear :D

[JU_88]

if they want to get CO2 out of power production, the harsh reality right now -is either: Nuclear or lights out, lol.
Nuclear is most efficient by miles and while its alot better than it once was, (produces far less waste + and better regulated) it will never be 'risk of catastrophe' free and no one will ever want one in their back yard.
Mind you people don't want solar or wind in their back yard either, just because its ugly, lol.

Wind, Hydro and Solar are all great, but they are not enough on their own as they are inefficient and their production is very inconsistent.
it looks like Hydrogen fuel and 'clean oil' might be the best answer and possible alternative to nuclear, but they are both still W.I.P and it will still take alot of time and money to get the infrastructure in place for them.

But yeah coal and oil have to go, even if the environmentalists are all wrong (which i don't think they are) Coal and Oil will run out eventually anyway. Lithium is drying up too (for anything reliant on batteries. e.g solar)

[mapuc]

Another thing about these wind and solar power

Which came clear some years back in Denmark

For almost 2-3 days there wasn't any sun and there wasn't any wind that could make those big windmill.

The production of green electricity was almost at zero those two days.

Secondly the effects of these things is not that great

Wind power is less than 30 % or something.
Can't remember how much it is when it comes to solar power.

Markus

[STEED]

What makes me laugh are these protesters using smart phones, not very green.

[Skybird]

^ Here in Münster I can see flocks of school kids demonstrating on Friday - and then moving in small groups to McDonalds.


Makes you wonder whether a future for our species really is desirable. :06:

[mapuc]

Another thing that I think sound a bit funny.

Now and then the Danish Government give the approval for building a offshore wind farm the latest shall when finished produce 800 MW.
and is expected to provide green electricity for 800,000 households.

This sound great if it works as planned.

I know people is trying to make those wind mill more effective.

What I haven't been reading or been hearing so much from is scientist trying to improve the things in the other end

The things we, the ordinary people use using electricity.

If they could do that, then this offshore wind farm could perhaps provide electricity for 1 million or more households.

Just a thought

Markus

[Catfish]

Another thing that I think sound a bit funny.
Now and then the Danish Government give the approval for building a offshore wind farm the latest shall when finished produce 800 MW.
and is expected to provide green electricity for 800,000 households. […] Markus
What do you think is 'negative' in becoming independent when it ccmes to energy?

[JU_88]

@ Markus, do you mean house hold electrical appliances becoming more energy efficient?
I'm pretty sure they are. it would be good if they found away to tackle or somehow recycle some of the waste heat energy that electrical goods produce though.
I'm not sure that even possible though.

Maybe we can find away to harvest the energy from our children? they seem to have an near infinite supply :P

[mapuc]

What do you think is 'negative' in becoming independent when it ccmes to energy?

What i think is funny is that so far I have only heard and read about people/scientist trying to improve the effect on these wind, sun and water power

And not trying to improve the tools we use in our households.

An example My fridge use 240-something kw a year.

What if they could develop a fridge who only used 1/10 of this 240-something kw.

Denmark are independent-we have our own oil, which we sell most of. A little part of it is used here in Denmark,

We also buy electricity or oil from other countries it all depends on so much.
(I'm not so much into this economy-thing)

Markus

[JU_88]

Fridges have been around along time, for things like that maybe its about as good as it gonna get. anything required to cool or heat is always power hungry.
other appliances have become less hungry though, the TV, the humble light bulb etc.

[mapuc]

Fridges have been around along time, for things like that maybe its about as good as it gonna get. anything required to cool or heat is always power hungry.
other appliances have become less hungry though, the TV, the humble light bulb etc.

yes when it comes to tv.

My LED-tv only use 0.5 W in stand by and only 10 or was it 15 what when used.

And not to forget our light bulbs. Which made me remember an episode from the serie Beyond 2000. Here they showed some Japanese scientist testing the next generation light bulbs only using 0.1 to 0.8 w and giving better light than a 9 W LED light bulb.
How could I forget this and I was trying to remember these things before posting.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

I like the new LED light bulbs. So much better than the compact fluorescent ones that were pushed on us. No glass to break. low consumption and bright.

[Skybird]

Yes, LED has gone a logn way, but it still lacks in certain areas behind halogen and normal light bulbs. And too many low aulity, ba dlight LED still gets build and used for producing other devices. One must pay utmost attention when buyng LED, ther eis so very much crap LED light on the market as well. Most LED sold still have a way too high blueish colour, are too cold in light temperature as if they would make the living room comfortable.



Coloured LED lamps on the other hand also have a very strong tendasic setting even if shoowing colours like ornage or red that shoukld feel "warm". LED coloured lights often all feel cold and pale.



Nothing beats the warm, sun-like comfort of a low-watts halogen bulb, warm, gemütlich, friendly both in the eye and to the soul. The colour and wamrth of the sun, of fire, of amber in the coals. In iving rooms, that is what I want, not some ultra-bright blueish soac elight from a white dwarf. thats okay for work spaces maybe, corridors, but not for places where habitability and coziness count.

[Skybird]

The energy consummation debate does not get decided in germany or Britain. But in India, china, africa with their exploding populations and exploding energy needs. Tell all those hundreds of millions and billions that they should stay poor to save climate! In Germany, allt he energy conservation polcies of the past twnety years did not change the fact that beside the savings in energy by the idnovidual the total level consumed still stayed in the rlam of where it was before. That is becasue so many more additonal energy consumi system were added. They may consume elss energy individually, but in total the growth of consuming systems neutralises the gains.


They now want to make the schemes even more comolciated and expoensove. the greenw ant to icnrease the costs for CO2 traidnf accpridng to Germany latets plan by a facotr of SIX.



It will not work. I hreby predict it. In 15, 20 years somebody will compoare the numbers and say: it did not work as planned. Promised. And that is just Germany. But everybody will be poorer, due to the exploding costs caused by these stupid schemes. And the state, this great planner and mastermind behind the mess, will feel ever more indispensable in mediating this chaos.

[JU_88]

When approached many of the extinction rebellion types don't want to talk about India and china. Because they are often well to do middle class progressive yoga types :P who are wary of 'cultural relativism'.
The mantra of: its ok to dump on your own culture but certainly not on others, lest you be compared with a foaming at the mouth ignorant UKIPPY nationalist.
But then it can also come across as the 'bigotry of low expectations', when you hold another culture or nation to a lower standard than your own, it still suggests you think you are superior to them - and are simply trying to be nice about it.

but anyway, depending on the media outlet they may choose to only televise the stupid ones who don't really think these things through.

Anyway the best arguments I heard from them on this was that your average western child has a larger carbon foot print that than your average eastern adult. abit difficult to quantify that even if it sounds quite believable.
Its not reasonable to expect them to 'go and protest in india or china' as some suggest. We are still doing our share of damage, even if we are fewer, plus western leaders and corporations still possess a hell of alot of clout in the world.

I did see in one conversation, an activist challenged on being 'pro open borders', since they are then often advocating for unlimited people from lesser polluting nations, to migrate to one where they will end up making a much bigger carbon foot print. Which caused them to back pedal somewhat. Even though that could actually be flipped back to supporting the protest for lower carbon emissions here in western nations - more than it would for simply 'shutting the gates' lol, but i guess they didn't think quickly enough.
But what ever, 'no migrants' and 'unlimited migrant's' are both very stupid and unreasonable positions to hold.

[Jimbuna]

I like the new LED light bulbs. So much better than the compact fluorescent ones that were pushed on us. No glass to break. low consumption and bright.

Most definitely, have them in most of the rooms in the house.

[mapuc]

Going back to the discussion about this Climate change.

I wonder why people is standing so close to the picture which only makes them see a little part of it.

I would recommend people to take 5-6 step back to see the whole picture

Markus

[Skybird]

Maybe they dont do it because they made themselves believing that they already stand with their backs against a wall.

[August]

If they could do that, then this offshore wind farm could perhaps provide electricity for 1 million or more households.

Just a thought

Markus


My question is what will it cost per kilowatt hour to create and run this system, with all the maintenance and transmission etc costs are factored in, compared to traditional power sources? Is this really a better choice if the electricity that it produces is 20 times more expensive?

[mapuc]

Maybe they dont do it because they made themselves believing that they already stand with their backs against a wall.

One of the reason to my comment was something I saw earlier today on H2.

It was an episode of "How the Earth was Made"

In this episode they explained the creation of lake Superior and the others(forgot their names)

In the end of this program, some of the citizens living near those lakes had seen an lowering of the lakes and they said it was because of this Climate change.

The geologist said no-the answer is not the Climate. The answer shall be found 20-25000 years ago, when the last Ice age was here.

The Ice shelf who covered almost 1/3 or was it 2/3 of Canada and North America was xxxx meters thick and created a massive pressure on the soil/land/earth.
Now that this ice shelf is gone and are not creating pressure anymore, the land is slowly rising/going back to it's normal state.
This have been an ongoing process since thousands of years and will continue the next 20000 years.

So not everything that happens is this climate change fault and that is what I meant by people should take 5-6 step back and study a little more about earth geology.

Markus

[mapuc]

My question is what will it cost per kilowatt hour to create and run this system, with all the maintenance and transmission etc costs are factored in, compared to traditional power sources? Is this really a better choice if the electricity that it produces is 20 times more expensive?

I can't say

I can however say, that oil, gas, or other types of fossil fuel is not what should be a part of the future.

It's time to take a step into the next generation of fuel consumption

Markus

[August]

I can't say

I can however say, that oil, gas, or other types of fossil fuel is not what should be a part of the future.

It's time to take a step into the next generation of fuel consumption

Markus


I don't see why fossil fuels cannot continue to be used but assuming they are somehow banned, what happens if most people cannot afford the next generation of power? Will electricity be something that only rich people possess while the rest of us go back to reading by candle light (assuming that candles aren't also banned)?

[Onkel Neal]

Where's that Thunberg girl when you need her?



https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/04/india/delhi-india-smog-pollution-intl-hnk/index.html

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191104092317-05-india-smog-1103-exlarge-169.jpg

[JU_88]

Its only bad when westerners do it Neal, god where is your progressive sense of self loathing? :03:

[Skybird]

Its only bad when westerners do it Neal, god where is your progressive sense of self loathing? :03:
That is so true for so many topics these days.

[Onkel Neal]

Its only bad when westerners do it Neal, god where is your progressive sense of self loathing? :03:

Haha, I left it in the ballot box with my 1992 vote of Bill Clinton

[Skybird]

Today I read in an Austrian blog that the BBC has banned statements, visitors in its programs and any video coverage where sceptical views and opinions on the IPCC climate report and associated beliefs on climate change and the human factor in it get expressed. This is independent of whether or not the critic has scientific, valid, solid arguments for his different view, or not and is just an agitator or lobbyist.

I am aware of that the BBC has gone in the past 15 years or so tremedously, but I could not believe that the BBC did this, so I searched the web. And what did I find? In fact this rule was released already in September 2018, over one year ago.

Hallelulissima...! The spirit of evil has been banned, and science has been abandoned and replaced with religious dogma! We are saved from testing and retesting scientific theory and needing to reconsider what we believe if we find cointradicting data - no need to alter politically opportune dogmata when we find data contradicting the old theories! We just keep on beoleiveing the old stuff that was rated by our leaders to be more opportune!

I know that this is what is being done en masse these days, in all media, i just did not expect that even the BBC, this once great news contributor and high temple of good journalism standards, would comply with such conspiratory ways and propaganda purposes.

Unforgivable, and tell-tale.

[EveLewis]

You know, what capitalism really did? Capitalism created a generation that values money over everything else which is a real problem. Yeah, not all people are like that, but the majority is.

[Skybird]

^Ironically they do so because they do not know the value of money.

Out went the entrepreneurs of old school and long sight. In came the managers of short sight. Real economy, real goods became less and lesser relevant, money became more and more relevant. The systematical devaluation attempts by debt-rising politicians did their part to make things worse. Money money money wherever you look. Just the value leaves to be desired. Value in an idealistic meaning, value in a real, material meaning.

Capitalism in itself is neither good nor bad, it simply is how things get done and markets work and economies live for some time. Its like life itself: we desire to live it, nevertheless it always ends with us growing old, ill, and dying. The old Yin-Yang symbol: everything already includes the germ for the turning into its opposite. Every state of noble design, democracy or whatever, already includes the fundament for its own destruction by turning into a tyranny increasingly, step by step. Nothing lasts forever. Panta rhei.

[MeganWheeler]

^Ironically they do so because they do not know the value of money.

I agree, actually. That's a good point.

[Aktungbby]

MeganWheeler!:Kaleun_Salute: