Battle of Leyte Gulf

[skirich]

Battle: Oct 23-26, 1944

Well, for the first time during my lengthy career from 1941, I was able to time a major battle (that I knew about) with the PAC Messages and my location to be part of it.


I happened to be in the Luzon Straights when the message came in about our forces invading the Philippines, I figured this had to be Leyte.
So I quickly looked up the dates and the battle routes and I had 6 days to get to either the South West side of the Leyte Passage, or Park near San Bernadino Straights.


I wanted to hit one of the Jap battle groups coming in from the west.
I originally thought of going for the northern carrier fleet with four juicy carriers, but decided the area was way too wide to search in the time I had, I would probably never find them. I may try anyway, in another save.
Anyway I had two battle groups back to back come into my sights while I parked just south west of Bohol Island. Nice deep spot with lots of places to hide and run behind.


The first battle group was Shimas Heavy Cruiser group. 7 destroyers four cruisers, two where heavy, and various support craft.

Nailed one of the heavies and got out of dodge.


As I was escaping, Nishimuras battle group of four battleships and 9 destroyers came steaming right at me in the mouth of the west straight by Sulu bay. I setup for a quick Vector analysis shot, which BTW is awesome for ships traveling at massive speeds. I was able to get the lead battleship and then get out of dodge.


Both times I used 3 torpedos.
Both were mid-day attacks in crystal clear weather.


Now as I escape, I'm thinking, dang, they are traveling towards the Leyte Straight, a tight, small pinch point. I should chase the group. I can probably knock out one or two more.
Now how the hell do I use the red pencil. Gotta figure that one out.



So thats my story.
Has anyone else been part of this battle?
Interested in stories about attacking San Bernadino straight instead, or maybe the carrier group.

[torpedobait]

Battle: Oct 23-26, 1944

Well, for the first time during my lengthy career from 1941, I was able to time a major battle (that I knew about) with the PAC Messages and my location to be part of it.


I happened to be in the Luzon Straights when the message came in about our forces invading the Philippines, I figured this had to be Leyte.
So I quickly looked up the dates and the battle routes and I had 6 days to get to either the South West side of the Leyte Passage, or Park near San Bernadino Straights.


I wanted to hit one of the Jap battle groups coming in from the west.
I originally thought of going for the northern carrier fleet with four juicy carriers, but decided the area was way too wide to search in the time I had, I would probably never find them. I may try anyway, in another save.
Anyway I had two battle groups back to back come into my sights while I parked just south west of Bohol Island. Nice deep spot with lots of places to hide and run behind.


The first battle group was Shimas Heavy Cruiser group. 7 destroyers four cruisers, two where heavy, and various support craft.

Nailed one of the heavies and got out of dodge.


As I was escaping, Nishimuras battle group of four battleships and 9 destroyers came steaming right at me in the mouth of the west straight by Sulu bay. I setup for a quick Vector analysis shot, which BTW is awesome for ships traveling at massive speeds. I was able to get the lead battleship and then get out of dodge.


Both times I used 3 torpedos.
Both were mid-day attacks in crystal clear weather.


Now as I escape, I'm thinking, dang, they are traveling towards the Leyte Straight, a tight, small pinch point. I should chase the group. I can probably knock out one or two more.
Now how the hell do I use the red pencil. Gotta figure that one out.



So thats my story.
Has anyone else been part of this battle?
Interested in stories about attacking San Bernadino straight instead, or maybe the carrier group.

I've been there, both in TMO/RSRD and FOTRSU. Each time I was against the West shore at the South entrance to the passage up to Leyte. In previous versions of FOTRSU I was attacked by multiple DDs before I could get close enough for a decent shot on the Heavy CAs. Didn't matter if I was mid-channel or just off shore.

Interesting that the DDs from the following group also steamed towards me once the first group attacked. Some of them could not make the channel entrance and went aground on the shore between me and them.

One of my torpedo's aimed at a DD passed close to the lead CA, causing it to slow down and zig towards me. That made it an easy target and it went down with a single hit in the forward magazine. After evading the oncoming DDs by diving deep, I came up just ahead of the BBs, both ISO class. We sank one and damaged the other. Again evading by diving deep, the two groups faded away to the North, but within a couple of hours those that survived the battle up closer to Leyte came back down the channel. Easy pickings on the wounded ducks. It was great fun and I look forward to repeating it in my current career. I'll be back in the Leyte Gulf area come October 1944 to see if I've improved any.

Btw, I've never been able to use the Red pencil. I've given up on it, frankly.

[skirich]

Great story.
So you went for the Nishimuras and Shimas battlegroups that went through the Leyte Straights by Mindanao.
Nice.
I'm gonna restart one of my saves and jump up to San Bernadino Straight and see if I can find the Yamato from the central battlegroup.

[Mios 4Me]

Leaving aside the Battle off Samar in the spirit of your discussion, I have twice encountered a northbound CV task group several days beforehand with rather light escorts. I initially assumed it was Ozawa but didn't he come down from Empire waters?

[skirich]

Leaving aside the Battle off Samar in the spirit of your discussion, I have twice encountered a northbound CV task group several days beforehand with rather light escorts. I initially assumed it was Ozawa but didn't he come down from Empire waters?


Ozaka did indeed come from northern waters, and was part of the carrier diversionary group.
Sad that they were willing to sacrafice the group for the chance to send cruisers and battleships up the rear to try and take on the US forces. But they had few aircraft, so why not.

[skirich]

Little ole me vs Yamato Battle Group in San Bernadino during Leyte Battle.

See attachment

[skirich]

Ok that was F-ing epic. I loaded the save before I sunk the previous two BB's in the Leyte Straight and headed north to San Bernadino to get a glimps of the Yamato Battlegroup.

I waited for a while to get the Yamato group close and then I saw all the contacts.

Oh My God. Four BB's Several cruisers and so many DD's and support craft surounding the armada I couldnt count them all.

There was no friggin way I was getting close enough to the BB's to get a shot off without sacrificing the sub.

I thought about swinging around and doing an end around but again the whole armada was completly and closely surrounded. Not to mention the zigzag and speed changes of the battlegroup pretty much eliminated the long distance shots.

To get those BB's I'd need to be real close.

For a moment I thought about going to test depth and wait until they were almost over me and surface for a chance, but as soon as I got close I heard active sonar.

So the initial choice of going for the southern task forces was a good one.

One thing I know about the battle was that our side nailed that Yamato group well with aircraft. So I'm going to go back to my last save, and turn north to see if I can catch the group retreating back to home waters.

If the game is historically accurate the Yamato should be on its way back to Formosa or some other norther port as a safety precaution.

Lets see if thats correct.
Picture of map with group: (sorry I cant figure out how to put up screen shots on subsim yet)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nekhpz1dfark6q/YamatoBattleGroup.png

[propbeanie]

Is that a "Stock" campaign skirich? Or TMO / RSRDC? :salute:

[skirich]

All stock.
Dang Yamato is elusive.
I'm parked at the San Bernadino straights waiting for the group to come back from the battle with our CV's

They have been decimated I presume as I watch 4 of the ship blow up and show wrecked on the nav map.
The Yamato is in full reverse.


So save game.
First try, I wait. they reform and travel into the straights but I cant get proper bearings to get a good solution and I cant get too close since they are surrounded by destroyers.


Second try.
I make haste in flank underwater to the group and I catch them in full reverse, but the yamato is super human speed and agility and out zips all my attempts at 3000 yards.


I try this four more times and no love.
Seems like the cruisers are detecting me and zipping in between me and the yamato and comiting suicide by torpoedo.


Im on my sixth try now. If this gets old, Im going to reload a bit earlier and find an island to hide behind as they steam back to home port through the straights.
Will try sneak attack.

[skirich]

Well thats new. The cruisers suround the Yamato like a blockade and allow it to slip north of me.


I have to rethink this attack approach. Going back to an earlier save and gonna hid in the islands as they pass.


I'm a sitting duck though since its shallow. Will try that once, and then maybe let them slip by and try a back end approach around a larger island.


Exciting stuff.

[skirich]

Ok, 10 tries with different setups and locations each time.
Not gonna happen at the straights.


Gonna try back in the bay.


way too many ships in the way here. Gotta somehow thin them out a bit.


I'll look for another choke point tomorrow.

[propbeanie]

Several points to remember about the game: #1, it "cheats"... #2, islands don't really "hide" you... you can often still "see" sonar lines through them... #3, lots of the capital ships have sonar and hydrophones #4, the collision avoidance in the game is atrocious #5, the game cheats even more...

Probably a lot of the "damage" that you're seeing is the ships and their "collision avoidance" kicking in. I forget how "wide" the Task Force is configured in stock, but I think it's 3 across. The ships of a group do not try to "choke down" to pass through a strait, and the escorts do not alter their pirouettes as they attempt to pass... they run into each other and / or run aground. So you are seeing the ships kick it into reverse to avoid another ship, and possibly running into another as they backup. They turn the wrong way and do all sorts of weirdness doing so... very un-lady-like for a ship... :salute:

[skirich]

Several points to remember about the game: #1, it "cheats"... #2, islands don't really "hide" you... you can often still "see" sonar lines through them... #3, lots of the capital ships have sonar and hydrophones #4, the collision avoidance in the game is atrocious #5, the game cheats even more...

Probably a lot of the "damage" that you're seeing is the ships and their "collision avoidance" kicking in. I forget how "wide" the Task Force is configured in stock, but I think it's 3 across. The ships of a group do not try to "choke down" to pass through a strait, and the escorts do not alter their pirouettes as they attempt to pass... they run into each other and / or run aground. So you are seeing the ships kick it into reverse to avoid another ship, and possibly running into another as they backup. They turn the wrong way and do all sorts of weirdness doing so... very un-lady-like for a ship... :salute:




#1 and #5, yeah I was beginning to wonder about that.
Collision avoidance is funny though.
Those first few attempts at a flank speed underwater charge at the group as they were stumbling about and the Yamato was fully exposed ... Once the Yamato knew I was en route, it turned tail and boogied into the middle of the scrum causing all sorts of havoc. Hysterical, like and elephant and mouse.

[propbeanie]

... or maybe "elephant in the china shop"? (it's bigger than a "bull" :roll: )... :salute:

[KaleunMarco]

#1 and #5, yeah I was beginning to wonder about that.
Collision avoidance is funny though.
Those first few attempts at a flank speed underwater charge at the group as they were stumbling about and the Yamato was fully exposed ... Once the Yamato knew I was en route, it turned tail and boogied into the middle of the scrum causing all sorts of havoc. Hysterical, like and elephant and mouse.

my apologies for jumping in here late....
skirich, are you playing a career in October 1944 or are you playing a single mission built around October 1944?

[skirich]

my apologies for jumping in here late....
skirich, are you playing a career in October 1944 or are you playing a single mission built around October 1944?
Its a career that started in 1941.
I was playing a typical patrol, finished it and went to a tender base to get refueled. It was mid October 1944 and I realized there is a famous battle I can join, Leyte Gulf that started around 23-26th of Oct 1944. I was near the right spot, just got a refill at a sub tender, and had time to get to the designated areas and sure enough its been true to history, dates, battle groups and locations.
Its been exciting as hell to try and take out these battle groups.
As I am just about to hit fire I realize how hard my heart is beating and laugh. Totally immersed.

[skirich]

Not giving up.
This time I was made, early, so I found a deep hole and made a run for it.
Smack dab into the center of the central battle task force.


Went dancing with several destroyers but I'm too deep for them to get any depth charges to hit hard enough for damage, well other then the deck guns, which are made out of plastic evidently, since if you look at them the wrong way they get broken.


Still, no love. The destroyers kept me busy while the main force steamed farther than my range.


I did manage to surface and send a salvo of 6 torpedos towards the yamato but she evaded them. Sooo close.


I tried that trick of calling in a convoy report at day break and it worked back on Ozikawas battlegroup.

Worked on the Ozikawa force. I received a message about a minute later saying good find and they would send an attack force. Not those words, It was Navy Cryptic. The skys where filled with fly boys 10-20 minutes later attacking the battle group.
It was easy pickins to hit the ships that didnt sink.


Now I have to try that on the Central force with the Yamato.

[skirich]

Well I gave up on taking down any of the central battle group in the San Bernadino Straights.
No matter how I tried, I just couldnt penetrate the group to get close to the yamato, and I only had 6 fore and 8 aft torpedos. Not enough to pick off some of the outer ships to make a difference before the group steamed off. Oddly that was also very historical according to the accounts. I wonder if that was coded like that.


I did however return to an earlier save where i made contact with the two southern groups in Leyte.

I stuck around and waited till they got their keesters handed to them by our fleet and were on the route back home.

Picked off every capital ship.
That last Kongo class I didnt even surface. I was so close I ran under the ship at 225 feet.
I kept the periscope up and watched as the ship passed directly overhead since the daylight was midday and I had clear water.
As I passed I began surfacing to 90 feet. The minimum for opening tubes. When I had a perfect 90 degree shot, I lead the angle of attack by 5 degrees and let loose 3 aft torpedos from about 400 feet.
I could see them travel. All hit. Kongo sunk.

I thought for sure I was a gonner though after the last Kongo and Fusa battleship and two Heavy cruisers went down.
The remaining 6 destroyers, 2 light cruisers and 2 heavy type destroyers all found me. At least I thought I was a gonner as they circled me in like a war party around a fire. They seemed like they had endless supply of depth charges too. Made me think I was too greedy in trying to get that last Capital ship by paying for it with the sub.

I was down to 1 Mark 18 fore and 3 Mark 14 aft. None of which was loaded since I was running silent.

I couldnt surface without running into a ship.

It was tense, and exciting.
I used the trick of turning into the destroyers and going under them at 400 feet since they have poor sonar directly under and just behind them.
That dance lasted for quite a while, several hours of game time with heavy depth charges and severe damage to the sub.

I made a break when all the turning got their ships bunched up and almost made a few collisions.

At 400 feet and 2knts they didnt hear me at all.

When I got 5 miles out I surfaced to 30 feet and called in an air strike.

I sat their as no less than 8 different air force groups with 5-7 planes each came buzzing to target the group still circling in the spot they thought I was in.
They sunk 3 ships before the group turned and ran homeward.

As I surfaced and plotted a course out of Leyte Gulf I noticed our planes on the map not moving in the water.

So as a hunch I went to one and there was the sign of a survivor smoke signal.
so I picked him up and thought, maybe there was more. There were so many planes.
So I turned and made a sweep of the last battle area and I got 6 more survivors.

Now that was cool.
I'd play that battle all over again.
I would have given anything for 6 more loaded torpedos fore.

[propbeanie]

Kuhl. :yeah:

I do wish the game would count you picking u survivors though, even if you don't have a "pickup zone"... :salute:

[skirich]

Kuhl. :yeah:

I do wish the game would count you picking u survivors though, even if you don't have a "pickup zone"... :salute:


Yeah that was sort of anti-climactic not to even get a note about it from home port. But, I would still do it, for the realism.
There were so many downed planes during this battle. To be honest, since I called in the strike force, it was heart wrenching to sometimes come across a smoke signal and there is no survivor. Either I was too late or they didnt make it.

[MrMojok69]

How do you call in an air group?!? I had no idea you could do this!

[propbeanie]

You use a "Contact Report", where your crew has identified several ships in a group (you'll see the notifications in the text box), you lock-on to one of them, and send a "Contact Report". You have to be close enough to "see" them, yet not so close that they can see you. If there is a CV group, or a land-based air group, close enough to your location, you'll see them, generally no sooner than about 15-20 minutes, usually longer. You'll notice that skirich mentioned coming up to 30 feet, and you might get one out at PD, but usually radar depth is better (42-47 feet), or on the surface... :salute:

[skirich]

You use a "Contact Report", where your crew has identified several ships in a group (you'll see the notifications in the text box), you lock-on to one of them, and send a "Contact Report". You have to be close enough to "see" them, yet not so close that they can see you. If there is a CV group, or a land-based air group, close enough to your location, you'll see them, generally no sooner than about 15-20 minutes, usually longer. You'll notice that skirich mentioned coming up to 30 feet, and you might get one out at PD, but usually radar depth is better (42-47 feet), or on the surface... :salute:

To add a little more to this, here is my MO.
If I notice a group lingering, or I am chasing a group, or I just escaped from a circling group of warships hell bent on depth charging me, I run at periscope level and ID at least 3 ships. Then boogie out of there to about 4-5 miles. Which is about the limit of view my periscope can still see the targets and lock on.

I make sure I am absolutely perpendicular to the group so when I surface I present the smallest profile to them. Less of a chance to get picked up by sight or radar.

At 30 feet depth, the radio antenna is exposed and can send transmissions. The conning tower watch deck is above water and I can exit to the deck, and most of the rest of the boat is still under water.

I lock onto one ship I I.D'ed already using the presicope and the send Contact Report button on the Log Book is now active. Click it once and submerge to periscope depth.

About 1-5 minutes later you will receive a reply.

Warning: I have gotten two different replies and it appears to be random, or maybe based on which ship I I.D'ed. I suspect if its a juicy target you will get the ... Nice Find, Sending recon and reponse force to intercept, return to base when possible.


I have also gotten the .. Nice Find, now go sink them, reply and now I have a patrol task on my log to complete. (Thanks Pearl)


Anyway, I noticed when you get a reply that an intercept force is coming, if you linger in the area at 30 feet with radar on max, you will get many more flyboys coming in for the destruction. If you leave the area you dont get many at all. It appears there is a mechanic in the game that uses your radar to find them (at least thats what it felt like, maybe the radiomen are directing).


If you are good with external camera use, you can zoom into the battlegroup and watch U.S. planes dive bomb, strafe, and drop torpedos at the ships.
Just remember to search for survivors afterward, or go in for the kill of any remaining enemy ships since they are busy with aircraft.

If you read up in the thread (or maybe it was a separate thread) you can see how one time I was deep in trouble, being chased in a shallow straight by 3 destroyers that were closing and shooting the big guns at me. I called in a contact report on them, and 15 minutes later as they reached about 3000 yards out from me an aircraft task force of about 7 planes flew right over my head and nailed the lead two ships. Sunk them on the second pass. I turned and engaged the lone destroyer and sunk that one easily as it was already on fire, but still moving.

As propbeanie mentioned, you will need to have one of our CV groups nearby to get that kind of response. This all happened during the battle of Leyte Gulf, which had numerous CV's from the U.S. fleet nearby.

[propbeanie]

... I hate it when they look like a Viking funeral pyre and keep on doing ASW on ya... :salute:

[MrMojok69]

SWEET! I knew about the contact reports but I thought they were basically useless. I will be trying this now as soon as I can.