UFOs: finally we can accept them as myth and hoax?

[Onkel Neal]

Throughout my life UFOs and flying saucers, aliens etc were suspected and reported, with blurry pictures shoring up as evidence. But of course, as the times change and everyone carries a camcorder now and seemingly every single event in life is recorded these days, no good footage of UFOs. So I guess we can retire this type of thing, we are alone in the universe.

Our Skies Are More Watched Than Ever, So Why Are Reported UFO Sightings on the Decline? (https://gizmodo.com/our-skies-are-more-watched-than-ever-so-why-are-report-1827284430)

This is a curious trend, given that almost every other aspect of our world is better documented than ever before. More people are carrying cameras on them and more people have access to the internet and can therefore share their strange observations. Meteoric fireballs, for instance, are extensively documented these days, captured on dashboard, security, and phone cameras. So why not UFOS?

[Mr Quatro]

Flesh and blood can not live in a ufo and go that fast too ... Maybe they are smarter now that we are too ... Invisible is still there for those that believe.

[Jimbuna]

They're stealth technology is now obviously far more advanced than in previous decades.

[Reece]

:har: Love that response Jim!! :har:

[Rockstar]

its obvious, its either as Jim says due to their advances in stealth technology. Or it could be just the opposite. Dramatically reducing the number of visitations because of increased surveillence of the skies.

[STEED]

Nah aliens have got smart, have you noticed there are more airplane's in the sky now. Not all of them come from planet earth you know. :03:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/26Q2vDkR/download.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Mr Quatro]

Nah aliens have got smart, have you noticed there are more airplane's in the sky now. Not all of them come from planet earth you know. :03:

If radar can go right through a fiberglass sailboat what can it do to a ufo?

[em2nought]

Just who did you think came up with the idea for drones? :up: Is that drone hovering over your naked girlfriend in the pool an alien or the pervert from down the street? :D

[STEED]

If radar can go right through a fiberglass sailboat what can it do to a ufo?

I will ask my mate.....

Lrrr ruler of the planet persia eye 8. :Kaleun_Wink:

[Mr Quatro]

Proven fact is that UFO/Alien movies sell more pop corn than Cowboys and Indians movies :yep:

[STEED]

Proven fact is that UFO/Alien movies sell more pop corn than Cowboys and Indians movies :yep:

Good point, the only film I went to see this year so far was the 40th Anniversary of ALIEN. First time I watched this gem on the big screen it was great. :)

[JU_88]

I treat Aliens with the same agnostic indifference as gods and ghosts, i don't see the purpose of either 'beliving' or 'disbelieving in what cannot be proven either way.
I will say though, given the rate a which planets face extinction level catastrophes like meteorites and stuff. We are very lucky to still be here and alien race more advanced than us would be even luckier.

[Skybird]

Throughout my life UFOs and flying saucers, aliens etc were suspected and reported, with blurry pictures shoring up as evidence. But of course, as the times change and everyone carries a camcorder now and seemingly every single event in life is recorded these days, no good footage of UFOs.


That's why.


http://www.drumpldeer.de/geocaching/blitzdings/kay.png

Problem is, these things heat up very intensely, and they are used a lot. Thats where global warming is coming from.

[Jimbuna]

That's why.


http://www.drumpldeer.de/geocaching/blitzdings/kay.png

Problem is, these things heat up very intensely, and they are used a lot. Thats where global warming is coming from.

:haha:

[Platapus]

The surest sign of intelligent live out there is that they have not bothered to visit us. :up:




Since it is impossible to prove non-existence, especially in the context of non-earth things, We may never know.


All I know is that I have not seen an alien space craft....yet. :D


I have also never personally seen a Black Swan for that matter.

[Bilge_Rat]

This is an issue which has always fascinated me and I have looked into it a lot.

At this point, only two things are certain:

1. There is certainly intelligent life out there. According to one estimate I saw, there could be as many as 100,000 inhabited planets in our universe; and

2. There is no proof any of them have ever visited the earth.

[Skybird]

This is an issue which has always fascinated me and I have looked into it a lot.

At this point, only two things are certain:

1. There is certainly intelligent life out there. According to one estimate I saw, there could be as many as 100,000 inhabited planets in our universe; and

2. There is no proof any of them have ever visited the earth.

There is nothing certain in any of the two points. ;) Its just guessing and speculation not based on hints or facts.

[Mr Quatro]

Reports of flaming chariots being seen are in the Old Testament of the Holy Bible ... Specially when Elijah was seen leaving in one by his replacement Elisha.

[Onkel Neal]

They're stealth technology is now obviously far more advanced than in previous decades.

Lol, good one

[Jeff-Groves]

All I know is that I have not seen an alien space craft :D



Your going to have to define that statement. Pretty sure the French have a few space craft.
Being they would be classified as alien to us in the U.S.A.?
There are alien space craft!
:D

[JU_88]

Anyway 'UFO' doesnt mean aliens, it just means 'dunno what that is'
Only time I've seen a flying saucer was one time in 80s when my mum got really angry with my older brother in the kitchen.
.....luckily it missed him though.

[Reece]

She was obviously watching too many Ninja shows! :yep:

[Mr Quatro]

The surest sign of intelligent live out there is that they have not bothered to visit us. :up:



If they're smart enough to travel here ... They are certainly smart enough to live among us ... Body snatchers, men in black can't all be Hollywood :o

[August]

Thing is the universe is so big that its not unreasonable to assume that life likely exists out there somewhere and it's also obvious that any alien race so advanced that it can travel between the stars could also keep their existence completely hidden from us.



In fact if an alien race were to show themselves it'd probably be because they are getting ready to swat us like the bugs we would be to them. Movie heroes ain't gonna fly up to the mother ship to download a computer virus even if Apple laptop interface is compatible with alien technology.

[u crank]

Thing is the universe is so big that its not unreasonable to assume that life likely exists out there somewhere and it's also obvious that any alien race so advanced that it can travel between the stars could also keep their existence completely hidden from us.


The Great Filter

With no evidence of intelligent life other than ourselves, it appears that the process of starting with a star and ending with "advanced explosive lasting life" must be unlikely. This implies that at least one step in this process must be improbable. Hanson's list, while incomplete, describes the following nine steps in an "evolutionary path" that results in the colonization of the observable universe:

The right star system (including organics and potentially habitable planets)
Reproductive molecules (e.g. RNA)
Simple (prokaryotic) single-cell life
Complex (eukaryotic) single-cell life
Sexual reproduction
Multi-cell life
Tool-using animals with big brains
Where we are now
Colonization explosion

According to the Great Filter hypothesis at least one of these steps—if the list were complete—must be improbable. If it's not an early step (i.e., in our past), then the implication is that the improbable step lies in our future and our prospects of reaching step 9 (interstellar colonization) are still bleak. If the past steps are likely, then many civilizations would have developed to the current level of the human species. However, none appear to have made it to step 9, or the Milky Way would be full of colonies. So perhaps step 9 is the unlikely one ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter

Another problem is the time line. Since the universe is billions of years old highly advance life forms may have evolved, traveled the cosmos and then disappeared. It's possible that they existed hundreds of millions of years in the past.

See also the 'Fermi paradox'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[Bilge_Rat]

Very true, a lot of sci fi writers have run through various scenarios.

For example, assume a highly advanced race had developed space travel 100,000 years ago, visited earth and then disappeared 95,000 years ago, there would likely be no proof they ever came and we would probably never know about them.

100,000 years is a blink of an eye in our 5 billion year old universe.

[mapuc]

After having read Skybird's response I could not help thinking:

If our planet in the entire univers or universes, is the only one with life on it

then the big question is:

Why all this waste ? Why billions and billions of Suns and trillions of planets with no life whatsoever.

Markus

[Skybird]

Life as we understand it, bases on a huge variety of preconditions that must be met, and even if all these preconditions are being met, we do not know if this total meeting of needed preconditions alone already would automatically always trigger the forming of "life". We assume it is like this, but that is just our assumption. We can only say that in our small corner of the total universe, at this point of time of the universe's lifespan, all environmental conditions and what it took to allow life, were met. And so it is no surpise that life exiosts in this corner of the universe - and not in another one. Like it is no surprise that all birds have wings and all fishes can breath underwater.

Maybe life indeed is a very rare, if not even unique, exception from the rule of the material universe being lifeless and unaware of itself. Maybe lifelessness is indeed the norm in the universe.

There are two big horrors man must get along with. The first is the chance of meeting alien, foreign life that is totally different than we are and thw life we know. The other horror is to find out that we are indeed the only ones. And I dare not to judge which one is the bigger horror of the two.

Science cannot deal with the question of "Why?". It deals with the question of "How?". And for the question of "Why?", in the end we have no method to come to an answer or preliminary conclusion, and we have nothing that gives us answers. We shoudkl have the greatness to qdmit that we simp0ly do not kinow, and maybe cannot know. Religions simply sooth the worried mind like a drug would do, by raising claims and illusions - unproven and untestable these claims get raised again and again, and blindly believing them is declared a moral virtue, a "strong faith". But it just is hear-say. Believing is not knowing, but like a child takes comfort from a lifeless teddybear in its arms, many people take comfort from believing in a set of religous claims. Its irrational - still it may be necessary for mental and psychological hygiene and to avoid threating levels of troubled mind, and existential fear. Watch a child sleeping with its favourite cloth pet in its arms - and then tell me the teddybear is useless! It isn't. Although it is just a lifeless teddybear.

We do not know why the universe is there, and where it came from and where it goes at the very end. For us, a concept of there being no start or end, even makes no sense, is unthinkable. The real question to me here is not so much why things are like they are , but the real quesiton is: why is there anything in the first? Why isn'T there simply nothing? Why isn'T there just the total absence of anything?

I doubt that the way the human mind works and is designed to function, it can ever hope to grasp an answer, for it may be so much beyond its reach that we can never hope to reach and understand it. If we woujld, we would no longer be humans, but supoerhuman. Beyond human, that is. Here is where the meaning of Nietzsche's superhumanm must be sought for. We are talking about transformation here. Transcendence, if oyu want. Which can only be had at the cost of goiung beyiond what makes us a "human", an "ego", an "I".

Take your life for what it is. Try to enjoy it. Do not to others what you would not want to be done to you. Live every day as if it were your last. Do not crave for death, but then also do not fear and endlessly try to evade it, for you cannot succeed there. Don't seek salvation in transitory things, see them as coming in and going out pleasures only. If something happens and comes to you, greet it, and if it goes again, farewell it. I think that is all meaning of life there ever will be. I am quite stoic there, I think.

And if one thinks about it - thats quite a lot already.

[Rockstar]

Time and Space make it hard.


Assume an alien life form lives approximately 4 light years away in the Alpha Centauri system. Now lets suppose by some miracle that life form can survive travelling at the speed of light it will take them four of our earth years, no big deal. Say they cant survive that speed but their technology will allow them to travel the 23,514,501,492,734.434 miles at 100,000 miles an hour! Whoopee, that sounds fast but it would still take them something like 26,825,132 of our earth years to get here.

I reckon they would have to place frozen embryos on the craft and hatch the little buggers so they can learn about themselves, culture, purpose and mission destination.

Even if my math isnt right I'd wager big money its still gonna take more time than any life form has to get here

[Jeff-Groves]

All postulations are base on the sciences We know and understand to this date.
There is no way in hades We have answers to questions we still have.
Just the proof that a time crystal can be constructed opens the door to what was closed to us just a few years ago.

Yes I believe there is intelligent life out there. I also believe some are way more advanced then We are.
Have they visited Earth? Those would be the less intelligent.
Probably escaped from a looney bin planet.
I mean really. Who the heck else would fly light years across the Universe to crash into Roswell, New Mexico!
There's not a damned thing there! I know! I just went through there a few weeks ago!
(Proving there may be a lack of intelligent life on Earth also!)

[vienna]

...

I mean really. Who the heck else would fly light years across the Universe to crash into Roswell, New Mexico!
There's not a damned thing there! I know! I just went through there a few weeks ago!


...





Aha! We knew it! Proof of extraterrestrial visitation form the source!...


...and how long are you assigned to our planet?...







<O>

[Jeff-Groves]

Aha! We knew it! Proof of extraterrestrial visitation form the source!...


...and how long are you assigned to our planet?...

<O>
DAMN IT! You weren't suppose to figure that out!
:/\\!!

[Aktungbby]

we won't discuss the 'second coming' at Sacramento then!:O:

[vienna]

https://i.imgflip.com/2jlnlm.jpg










<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Takes one to know one vienna :o

[Rockstar]

All postulations are base on the sciences We know and understand to this date.
There is no way in hades We have answers to questions we still have.
Just the proof that a time crystal can be constructed opens the door to what was closed to us just a few years ago.


I dont think time crystals allow for any life form to defy time nor do they break or upend any universal physical laws. The time it takes to travel through space is gonna play a huge part in how far any living creature can go before they expire. If they are super smart and developed the means to harness the incredible amount of energy to travel at light speed and doing so without every atom of their body disintegrating into a gazillion pieces I suppose they might stand a chance of getting here.

[u crank]

Time and Space make it hard.

And technology. And those are the reasons that I personally don't believe that humans will ever leave our solar system. And that alien life forms from beyond our solar system have or ever will come here.

That doesn't mean I don't think that intellegent life doesn't exist elsewhere in the universe. It's biologically possible. It is also foreseeable that humans will explore our galaxy by other means. Artificial intelligence combined with robotics for example.

But time and distance and the laws of physics are all against a biological being travelling in space. One can only assume that other possible biological life forms would have the same laws of physics as we do. And the same problems.

The Cylons on the other hand ...

[Rockstar]

There is spooky action at a distance which could prove were just meat puppets controlled by alien overlords in another galaxy.

[Catfish]

Anyone read "Children of time" ? ^;;^ :03:

[STEED]

Not all Alien Monsters come from outer space, this one was created on Earth! :o

THE POLYMORPH


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1o78X0BQ5k

[Rockstar]

Anyone read "Children of time" ? ^;;^ :03:

Nope, but I've read From Where Comes The Universe by Dennis Morris. The ending was awesome.

Philosophers always have the last word.

The philosophically fascinating aspect of all the above is that we have deduced the whole of our classical universe, and hope to eventually deduce the whole quantum universe, from nothing more than real numbers and finite groups. In fact, the finite groups are very easily deduced as nothing more than permutations of different whole real numbers.

Further, as shown by Bertrand Russel a century ago, all real numbers can be deduced from nothing more than the number 1. In short, if the number 1 exists, then the universe exists. Indeed, the whole universe is nothing more than the solitary number 1.

Note: It does not have to be the number one. Any whole number will suffice, including the number 42. It appears Douglas Adams was right :D

[Jeff-Groves]

https://i.imgflip.com/2jlnlm.jpg

<O>
Jimbuna figured it out long ago.
https://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/priv2dukatsp1.gif~original

[Jimbuna]

Jimbuna figured it out long ago.
https://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/priv2dukatsp1.gif~original

:haha::up:

[Skybird]

Mind and space. Inside and outside. Both an abyss/void. Can there be two kinds of an abyss/void? Two kinds of nothingness? I don't think so.

That opens paths for speculation...

For example my own supergenius invention, this formula: t=f(m) :D Where t=time, and m=mind. Sometimes I think we got the idea of space travelling completely wrong so far. And that I do not mean as a joke.

The limiting facvtor so far always is the biological hull of ours. And I imagine not one but two ways to work around that: replacing the biological hull as carrier oif "mind" with a technological hull and thus bypassing the vulnerability of biology (means: robots/androids), or by moving the mind from A to B directly, bypassing the need of a hull alltogether.



I cannot see homo sapiens reaching any of these two scenarios, however.

[mapuc]

I also belief there's life out there and not just here on our planet.

But this belief goes down as the size of these life grows and its intelligence

I'm 150 % convinced that there are bacteria or similar or something who is a little bigger(can't come up with what type it could be)out there on almost every planet(I wrote almost)
I'm 100 % convinced that there are bugs like flees or small spiders out there on some type of planets

I'm 70-75 5 convinced that there are smaller animals like rats or similar out there on some types of planets

When it comes to human-like creature I'm only 5-10 % convinced
When we talk about intelligence I'm down to 1-2 %

(Those percentage use to change, when I got new information from documentary about our univers and or our own planets)

Markus

[Skybird]

Maybe I can shake up those percentages a bit when reminding of that planet Earth lies in those 10% of our galaxy's space/volume that belongs to the youngest space of this galaxy, meaning that the other 90% of volume the galaxy takes, and suns and planets in it, are older than our beloved little home we call the solar system. Tens and tens of millions of years older. Thats why I have red in some astronomy book, once.

Before concluding from that that any life on these older worlds must be older than we are and thus has had more time to undergo evolutionary process and thus being more "advanced", now take into account that older suns come at the cost of their own problems they mean to the planets revolving around them, aging issues of which there are many. Suns undergo a life cycle, and their fuel gets burned up. Radiation changes, from extreme to comfortable to destructive, for example.

That so many solar systems are so much older than ours, could not only mean life they maybe hold is superior to us, but also that it already has died out again and very long tiome ago. Or has adapted in ways we cannot even imagine.

Still certain of your percentages? :O:

Anyway, if there is life able to reach out at us on ouzr pkante, we should be deeply worried if taking the human history of clashing civilizations as an example. Usually the superior civilization wipes out the inferior one, at leats oin our planet. And alspo, we cannot take it for grnated that a more advanced species autom,atic ally ticks by our moral rules and motivations. They simply may be beyond the meaning of our temrinola og right and wrong, good and bad, kind and evil. Am i an evil being is stepping onto that ant in the woods, and not even tpcing it? Or giving that mosquito irritating me the sklap of it slifetime?

I for myself have changed over my life my stand on alien life, from hoping that it is there and that we will make contact, to now hope we can avoid being detected by somebody out there. I think we should hope that we are out of reach, and we should stay as stealthy as we can. Voyager 1 and 2 imo today were not just stupid but potentially dangerous missions.

We have no reaosn to hope for the best outcome form an alien contact. Maybe we have no reaosn to fear the worst as elWe simply do not know. Maybe we are best advised to not hope for anything, and just stay silent and shut up, from a galaxian point of view.

I admit, there is no solace in anything I just said.

Maybe that is the price for survivial. If so, I hope we never find out.

Maybe soembody knows the "Galactic Centre" Saga by Gregory Benford...?! Not really a pleasant outlook, but I see some possible truths in it about a first contact - and the long range consequences that are lethal for mankind.

http://www.worldswithoutend.com/searchwwe.asp?st=The+Galactic+Center+Series&t=1&at=All&gid=0&ys=0&ye=9999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Center_Saga

Paul Witcover in Sci Fi Weekly wrote that the series is "one of the most ambitious and enthralling sagas in all of science fiction: The epic tale of a star-spanning civilization of intelligent machines methodically working to exterminate a species of pestiferous vermin that calls itself humanity."


Also see the Fermi Paradoxon LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox)

[mapuc]

Correcting

The universe is so complex that it is virtually impossible to embrace in its comprehension as a whole

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Now you want to talk about space and what may or not be out there ...:yep:

What if what we see is not really still there if it took thousands of years just for the light to get here?

If we send a space ship to see, manned or unmanned, how long would it take to see something that may have exploded thousands of years ago and on top of that how long would it take to get a message back to earth that what we thought was there is no longer there.

We misewell wonder what will be discovered in our life time left here on earth, because whoopie we are never going to find out anyway.

We're all going to die :yep:

[JU_88]

Well yes, as long as we are stuck using propulsion system from 1940's, we aint going no where.

[STEED]

Well yes, as long as we are stuck using propulsion system from 1940's, we aint going no where.

Tell that to NASA, they will chase you out of town. :03: :haha:


If there are no such things as UFO's why the heck should police, military and the governments around the world wast their time investigating something that is not true? :hmmm:

I for one would not wast my time energy money resources on something that is not true.

[Onkel Neal]

Here’s a believable explanation of those UFO videos released by the Navy (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-a-believable-explanation-of-those-ufo-videos-released-by-the-navy-2019-10-15)

Wow, the US Navy leapfrogged into the 23rd century?

But let’s consider for a second that the mysterious object in question was manned by a human pilot. In that case, the vehicle would have to be equipped with the technology capable of reducing the inertial mass of the object by generating gravity waves to reduce G-forces during acceleration.

[Skybird]

Now you want to talk about space and what may or not be out there ...:yep:

What if what we see is not really still there if it took thousands of years just for the light to get here?

If we send a space ship to see, manned or unmanned, how long would it take to see something that may have exploded thousands of years ago and on top of that how long would it take to get a message back to earth that what we thought was there is no longer there.

We misewell wonder what will be discovered in our life time left here on earth, because whoopie we are never going to find out anyway.

We're all going to die :yep:Looking out into space inevitably means looking back in time. Telescopes are time machines. The further away the galaxy is that we look at, the younger a universe we see there.

This will change when interstellar objects reach relative velocities beyond the speed of light, which is inevitable due to the expansion of the universe. Becasue then thse objects become literally invisible and will never be known of again.


We live in a special age of this still young universe. We live in tjis very short time window when the universe - in form of life forms like us - actally can get aware of itself and can look at and know about itself. This will get lost again, it seems according to contemporary cosmological models. The whole time-and-light-and-visibility thing seems to be just a brief contemporary episode in the universe lifycycle anyway.



I prefer not to think too closely about this anymore, there is quite some Lovecraftian horror in it.

[mapuc]

This Nobelprise winner is optimistic when it comes to aliens

A Cambridge University planet hunter said on Tuesday that mankind could detect alien life within the next 30 years, after winning the Nobel prize

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/08/cambridge-university-planet-hunter-says-mankind-could-find-alien/

Markus

[Skybird]

Some German astronomer said the same in the year when I finished school. "In thirty years at the lastest..."


That was winter 1985/86.


:03:


Nobody knows really what is out there. But most nevertheless allow themselves the luxury of holding hopes and/or fears.

[Onkel Neal]

UFOs are very real, 60 Minutes reports, they're still unidentified, and they aren't American
https://news.yahoo.com/ufos-very-real-60-minutes-061200487.html

https://youtu.be/ZBtMbBPzqHY


https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/9IosN3FYh.3g_U35dAxQRg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTQ3MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/SypQrYXPg80h1KazjtvIFw--~B/aD01NjA7dz04NDA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_week_574/1e356c5416d6e8d6eb7bc8370edf0a9c

First, UFOs are finally proven as real, now life discovered on Mars. What's next? Santa, I love you, I always believed!

[Buddahaid]

I always believed too. We're safe now aren't we?

I'll watch those now but by the teasers I've already watched them several times.....I.... believe.......

[Mr Quatro]

The Holy Bible talks about Elijah asking Elisha what he would have him do for him for he was fixing to take off.

So Elisha says that he would like to have a double portion of whatever it was that Elijah had. Elijah says that this is a very hard thing to have, but if Elisha should see him leave then Elisha would have what he asked for.

What did Elisha ask for from Elijah?

When the time came for Elijah to be transported alive to Heaven, he granted a request to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I be taken away from you.” “Let a double portion of your spirit be upon me,” came Elisha's reply. God, through Elijah, granted Elisha's request.

2 Kings 2:11-12

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!” So he saw him no more.

So as you can see UFO's were considered chariots of fire in the Holy Bible.

I must remind you also that flesh and blood can not travel that fast without some kind of special space suit, but to be invisible would be almost impossible.

But with God all things are possible :yep:

[Buddahaid]

And I'll say why not as it is just as provable as any UFO sighting to date.

[Skybird]

Witness reports may or may not be true. Video may be or may not be manipulated.
Contexts of statements and scenes may or may not be suggestively arranged.

In the end it again comes down to: believing it (=systematically taking some unproven and/or unprovable claim as proven fact although it isn't that), or not believing it.
You can also believe that mankind is nothing more than a highly develped form of a cosmic bicycle with an inbuild giggle instead of a bicycle bell. Of course you can also believe something different.

The only really unquestionable and undoubtable element indicating that a phenomenon of any kind does exist, is the existence of the ongoing interest into these topics. In this my understanding we are limited to defining the phenomenon as - well, an interest, and the motivation behind causing this interest. The motivation behind it can have been self-emerging, or intentionally triggered by not further identified interested parties.

Anything beyond stating this ^ is necessarily nothing else than mere speculation.

[mapuc]

I believe in myself....Can this be a religion ?

Ego religion.

Markus

[Rockstar]

I have to take it on faith and believe you exist. Because believe it or not there is a possiblity that you do not.

[mapuc]

I have to take it on faith and believe you exist. Because believe it or not there is a possiblity that you do not.

I think...therefore I am...Err is it another person who's planting these thoughts in my mind ?

Markus

[Rockstar]

I think...therefore I am...Err is it another person who's planting these thoughts in my mind ?

Markus


"I think therefore I am" proves to you that you exsist. However it doesnt prove to me that you exsist.

[August]

"I think therefore I am" proves to you that you exsist. However it doesnt prove to me that you exsist.


Well it ought to I would think. After all you are interacting with him, so if he doesn't exist who are you exchanging posts with then?

[Rockstar]

Well it ought to I would think. After all you are interacting with him, so if he doesn't exist who are you exchanging posts with then?


Good question. In my universe Im busy typing away interacting with my cellphone.

[Buddahaid]

What are they going on about?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PUKK8IR31HA/UUQf4I-bdtI/AAAAAAAADKE/EduH4mi6kco/s400/ape+escape+6.jpg

[August]

Good question. In my universe Im busy typing away interacting with my cellphone.


Well there's your proof of his existence right there. A cell phone is a communications device and you can't communicate with things that don't exist. :03:

[Buddahaid]

Well there's your proof of his existence right there. A cell phone is a communications device and you can't communicate with things that don't exist. :03:

I've witnessed several people communicating with things that don't exist. How can you prove they aren't really communicating?:k_confused:

[August]

I've witnessed several people communicating with things that don't exist. How can you prove they aren't really communicating?:k_confused:
On the phone?

[Buddahaid]

On the phone?

:Kaleun_Wink:
Have you ever spent any time having business on Market St. in SF? :o

[Skybird]

"I think therefore I am" proves to you that you exsist. However it doesnt prove to me that you exsist.
It does, since you think of him as the conception of yours that you you think of as saying I think therefore I exist.

In other words Markus is not real and does not exist while you are hallucinating. Come see me in my praxis and bring a list of all the heavy stuff you recently inhaled, I could use some of that since I have hallucinations about you.

:doh:

[Sean C]

I believe in myself....Can this be a religion ?

Ego religion.

Markus




This reminded me of a friend's forum (https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/14989-t-72-tutorial/) signature:


The idol of your self is the mother of all idols. - Rumi

[Skybird]

The idol of oneself is the mother of all idiots. :O:

[Rockstar]

It does, since you think of him as the conception of yours that you you think of as saying I think therefore I exist.

In other words Markus is not real and does not exist while you are hallucinating. Come see me in my praxis and bring a list of all the heavy stuff you recently inhaled, I could use some of that since I have hallucinations about you.

:doh:


I agree there is some evidence to suggest Markus and even you exsist but I cannot prove it.

[mapuc]

Good question. In my universe Im busy typing away interacting with my cellphone.

Is there a religion where the cellphone and/or the smartphone is worshiped ?
The way people is interacting with their phones, it looks like it does

Markus

[Gerald]

Many people are far too busy and engrossed in keeping track of things all the time (certainly nothing negative about it) and "explicitly go all in" on doing phone business, but of course it's up to everyone. Personally, when nature experiences and a little more other things, then I happily turn off the phone.

[Rockstar]

Is there a religion where the cellphone and/or the smartphone is worshiped ?
The way people is interacting with their phones, it looks like it does

Markus


Its silly to think I worship my phone or internet. :) All Im saying is I cannot prove you exsist.

[Gerald]

Its silly to think I worship my phone or internet. :) All Im saying is I cannot prove you exsist. A philosophical expression for the day..:)

[mapuc]

Interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6tDHZj5q5Q

Markus

[Skybird]

This video does not change my mind one bit. Videos can be artifically created (Hollywood does it all the time), and people can be paid or blackmailed to or intimidated to pretend to somebody in the knowledge. They even can truly believe that what they say is true, and the can describe something they cannot explain as best as they can.


None of this is evidence for or against anything.



Methodologically, all this doe snot een rate as a theory, because a theory must meet certain criteria to eb acutally qualfied as beign labelled a "theory". For exmaple, you must be able to test it. If a test is not possible, it is no theory but a hypothesis - or speculation.



I stick to it: that the phenomneneon of an existing and fed ubnterest in these thignsd exist, annot be denied, it is real. But what the phenomenon in our inerpretations si showing us - that is something totally different.



A Fata Morgana is real, it is a oyhsical ohenomenbeon of lightbeams beign reflected on distant heat layers of air. It is a real phenomenon. But what the phenomenon is apparently showing us, is not real, but unreal, is not what it looks like. Its not a real well. Its not a real city. Its not a real forest in the desert.



Its an insult to our intellect but - we do not know anything. On this.



So my advice: 1. be maximum open and 2. be maximum sceptical. You see something soembody shows you, you hear words somebody says, you read texts somebody has written. For the time being, I leave it to just these three facts. More I do not know about it.

[Von Due]

UFOs exist. I saw a white light on the night sky, I couldn't identify it. It was an object and it flew. A few minutes later I could identify it. It was an airliner.

I don't see any evidence of ETs ever having visited this planet. However, statistically, the chance of us being alone in our Galaxy, let alone the Universe, is really, really small. In all likelihood, there are lifeforms elsewhere. The probability that these possible beings have detected our radio signals is next to zero. The radio bubble is really small compared to the size of our Galaxy. Then, there is also a reasonable chance that physics won't allow interstellar travel. Sci-fi doesn't work off camera. Then again, our best theories are the best of bad ideas.

In short: No evidence of flying saucers, too little chance of anyone visiting, I'm not spending any lengthy time pondering this.

[mapuc]

There's two steps questions here.

1. Does UFO exist ? If the government/military is correct, then they do exist.

This lead to the second question

2. What are they and where are they coming from.

Even if I should believe in ufo(which I really don't) is not the same as believing in aliens.

Yes there's a connection between ufo and aliens-I just say it doesn't have to.

Markus

[Platapus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmDqKUEKW_Y

[Skybird]

Mapuc,


you cannot even be certain that there was acutally any object flying. Th videos from the MFDs in fighterplanes showed a blip on a radar screen. Whether these blips actually represented somethign we could call an object, or were just blips, we will not know.

And the (claimed) pilots?

Are humans. Maybe getting orders. Maybe being bought and paid. Maybe being forced. Maybe are pilots. Maybe are stage actors. We do not know. Maybe they lied, maybe they said the truth. Maybe they said something wrong which they beleived was the truth.

Some time back in the late 80s I think there was a famous Harvard psychiatrist, John Mack. For some time I believed him when he wrote a book - in honest intention, I got the impression, I give him that - about people contacting him and telling him of their traumata due to their abductions by aliens. It ruined his reputation that he took it serious, but he stuck to it. Later I think some of these "witnesses" stepped forward, admitting that they were lying and mocking him, wanting to see how far they could get with their stories. Mack died already years ago. - Well, this one taught me a lesson. It really did. The lesson is: I do not know wether these "witnesses" lied to professor Mack - or lied later on when saying that they lied to him. At one of these opportunities they obviously lied at least once. Maybe they lied even at both occasions. But they did not say the truth on both occasions, right?

In the nineties there also was a video making the rounds, showing a claimed surgical autopsy of an alien, a so-called "Grey". Some years ago the makers admitted that it was a hoax, not too badly done, but they showed the puppet, the place, and they confirmed that the sceptics were right when criticising the video as a fake for the telephone cable shown in that film - and that was not used at the time the film was claimed to be shot in. The business man, Santilli was the name I think.

Always be open minded. But also: always be sceptical. Thats the spirit of science: both of it combined. Proof can only be supplied by evidence.

There is no evidence on UFOs. At least none the public is allowed to know of. Science cannot know everything. But its leads the way a scientist must follow. He shall not allow to stray off, or to get distracted. And he must accept the lacks in his knowledge, the limits of empiry. We do not know everything, since we cannot examine everything, and our technologies base on evolving knowledge that is always temporary, never will be complete, it cannot be. Religions claim they know it all, and they also claim they must not provide evidence. But science must, else it is no science. Beyond evidence, its unknown territory. Lets accept it as that: unknown territory. We can take motivation from it, motivation to explore it. But nevertheless, its unknown territory until its explored. And no belief and no believing changes that. To me its a sign of mature adulthood to acept it as "unknown" - instead of filling the void with fairy tales from childhood and taking them as comfortable and cozy facts. Facts must be proven, not just claimed.

[Mr Quatro]

^ Same with the people that have said to have visited heaven and or hell. Some have later recanted and said they lied in order to get attention, but that doesn't mean that heaven and hell is not real.

We have been visited by something that doesn't want us to know who they are and sooner or later they will make a big mistake.

What ever happen to those stories that a UFO crashed and then it was covered up. Now that the GOV is being open and honest would be a good time to confess.

But what the heck could we do anyway ... Zap them and prove how mean and angry humans really are? :o

[mapuc]

I can see I made some mistake in my former comment

1. Does UFO exist ? If the government/military is correct, then they do exist.

This could be read as I believe in ufos which I really don't -I'm very, very sceptical.

Yes there's a connection between ufo and aliens-I just say it doesn't have to.

Could be read as I believe aliens is controlling these ufos

What I meant was

If ufo exist-Are alien involved ?

The day a ufo land on my lawn and the pilot ask if it can borrow my toilet-That day I'll believe in ufos

Markus

[vienna]

Jeez, I kept telling the guys to keep on the low side when moving around and now, this; man, there's gonna to be a hell of a lot of paperwork when I get back to the mothership... :(




<O>

[Sean C]

I look up at the sky quite a lot. It's my hobby. I've seen some really strange things that I cannot explain. Things like small, bright lights - moving at three or four times the speed of an airliner and then making a 90° turn instantly before disappearing.


I also believe there is a very real possibility that intelligent life exists somewhere other than on Earth. Or not.


But I don't necessarily believe those two things are connected. I've seen Earth's atmosphere do some really amazing and unexpected things to recognizable objects - both in the sky and on the water/land.


There is no shortage of mysteries in life. That's what makes it fun.

[Rockstar]

Jeez, I kept telling the guys to keep on the low side when moving around and now, this; man, there's gonna to be a hell of a lot of paperwork when I get back to the mothership... :(




<O>


Well, alright, Starchild. Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip. And come on up to the Mothership! ;)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4dzGaJyiJW4/hqdefault.jpg

[Catfish]

"Ufo" just means unknown flying object. There may be a lot of them, just unidentified/unknown.

Regarding the billons of galaxies, each with an unknown but huge numbers of suns and orbiting planets it is almost impossible that there is no other life existing, by sheer statistics. This life will be a lot more strange than mankind can imagine, and whatever "they" are, they have an entirely different perception of anything. Add completely different senses, you get the idea.

There are (what mankind calls) the laws of physics, but those are 'physical laws' that are "changing" in the mind of mankind, every decade on this earth, by new ideas and new discoveries made (if you think of the discovery of quantum physics, the deep field view of the Hubble telescope, new particles and wave functions, the "god particle", and lots more).
There are other physical "laws" working diffferently depending on locations being closer or distant to galaxy cores or near huge mass objects, there are also more (what you call) 'dimensions' possible that evaporate the older the universe gets.

Those blips are either a fraud, or some new technology by anyone on earth (including the possibility of testing own US technology that mess up radar systems tested on own pilots), or they are indeed "visitors".

B.t.w. did anyone read Cixin Liu's novels, with the idea of non-living 'sophons' to test?

[mapuc]

There must be intelligent life out there in the universe- With all these billions of suns and trillions of planets-the chance for planets with life on must be many.

How many is intelligent-ahead of us, is of course unknown.

Could they have solved some of the psychics needed to travel great distances in space ?? No one know.

Markus

[Skybird]

The older I get the more I come to think that war is the father of all things and life means the fight for living.

Thats why I have given up to believe in friendly E.T. Maybe E.T. is friendly, maybe not. But I know that whenever a superior human civilazition slammed into an inferior, the going and outcome always was the same - and only one survived.

Most solar systems in our galaxy, more than 90% of them, are in regions of the galaxy that are much older than the region our solar system happens to be located in. If ET's people survived those many eons the other places are older than ours, than he had all this time to evolve and develope his skills and abilities and knoweldge. His means and abilities probably would appear as magic to us. We would be unconditionally at his mercy that he does not want to destroy us.

So why the hell are some of us wishing that we meet ET? Because most of us naturally think that it will be mankind setting the terms and conditions of such contact.

I absolutely doubt that. And that is reaosn for concerns and worries.

I tend to think we would be well advised to sit still and silent and put in our little corner of the universe and hope we remain undiscovered and unnoticed. We must not want to end like the Mayas or Indians.

[mapuc]

An interesting view could Hollywood be correct in their interpretation of how the aliens are-in most cases evil.

I have the feeling though more advanced the aliens are though more civilians they are-if I follow the red line among the scientist. But even here there are scientist who say alien would be evil-They would conquer our planet.

If I followed the Hollywood line - The evilness will grow with their technology advancement. Even here there are aliens who are friendly.

I hope the day a ufo lands on my lawn, the pilot will be friendly and not BBQ me after it has used my toilet.

Markus

[Platapus]

As wide spread as the galaxies and systems are from each other. It is a possibility that there is intelligent life out there but they won't be able to travel to visit or even communicate.

[Skybird]

An interesting view could Hollywood be correct in their interpretation of how the aliens are-in most cases evil.

I have the feeling though more advanced the aliens are though more civilians they are-if I follow the red line among the scientist. But even here there are scientist who say alien would be evil-They would conquer our planet.

If I followed the Hollywood line - The evilness will grow with their technology advancement. Even here there are aliens who are friendly.

I hope the day a ufo lands on my lawn, the pilot will be friendly and not BBQ me after it has used my toilet.

Markus
Am I evil when I trample on that tiny ant on the ground? No, honestly said I did not even notice it was there.

Am I evil when snipping dead that fly on my plate with food? No, I just do not want it putting germs on my food, or eggs.

Is that kid evil when it rips out the legs of a moth it caught? No, it does not know it better, it just is a kid.

By the time differences in age between different regions in our galaxy, 90% of aliens might be unimaginably further apart from us humans than we are biologically, evolutionary different from flies and ants. We maybe trail behind their evolutionary development status by dozens and hundreds of millions of years.

[mapuc]

^
This recalled an old thoughts.

How would aliens look like ? No they will not be little green men. They will look mostly like us-with smaller difference in how high or low their gravity is. Planet with high gravity would have aliens with thick bones and they will be shorter than us in average.

Planet with lower gravity would have aliens with smaller bones and they will higher than us in average(Maybe Basket is popular on these planets)

I ain't a scientist-so the statement above is my ideas on how aliens my look like.

Markus

[Von Due]

One thing we shouldn't do is to assume evolution will take a recognisable path on another planet.

Just look at the diversity here on earth, and that diversity came from a very particular line of events, a line that has next to no chance of being repeated in all its details. Only the slightest difference eons ago would result in very different looking animals and plants. There is no reason to think dinosaurs existed anywhere else than on earth, there is no reason to think primates or primatoids would evolve on another planet.

What any ET might look like is well in the realm of the unknown. 2 legs? 4? 8? 24? Any legs at all? 2 eyes? 24? Who can possibly know? Would their evolution result in organs capable of picking up the same wavelengths as our eyes do? This is completely unknown.

Would they have DNA like we do, or would their evolution produce something we can't even begin to fathom with our earthbound imagination?

[Jeff-Groves]

Once ET saw We had nuclear weapons in Space they searched for an emerging Intelligence.

Being the weapons are aimed at ourselves?
They determined there is no Intelligent species on Earth.

[Buddahaid]

I just read that in an old SF story.

Anyway they do exist and I'm one of them so it's true....

[Catfish]

[...] But I know that whenever a superior human civilazition slammed into an inferior, the going and outcome always was the same - and only one survived. [...]
"They" will not necessarily kill, they may break some treaties after they get what they want, and then put inferior mankind in reservations. Sounds familiar :03:

[Skybird]

They come to slurp our amygdalas.
Look at their mouth. Its made for it.

https://img.cinemablend.com/filter:scale/quill/5/9/6/2/4/e/59624ee40bde5fd4c457a65edb66c24fd0330884.jpg?mw=60 0

[Rockstar]

"They" will not necessarily kill, they may break some treaties after they get what they want, and then put inferior mankind in reservations. Sounds familiar :03:

Maybe planet Earth is the reservation.

[Rockstar]

As wide spread as the galaxies and systems are from each other. It is a possibility that there is intelligent life out there but they won't be able to travel to visit or even communicate.


The time energy thing confuses the heck outta me. Take for instance the distance from Earth to Rigel is 860 light years. If someone were able to travel near speed of light then for them time slows and it would take that traveller only 38 years to reach Rigel.



But here on earth 860 years would still have passed.


Boggles my mind.

[mapuc]

^
What if and it is a big IF this theory is wrong.

What if times goes normal.

We send a spaceship on a 5 years journey where they use warp speed and they return 5 years later.

Markus

[Skybird]

What if and it is a big IF this theory is wrong.

What if times goes normal.

We send a spaceship on a 5 years journey where they use warp speed and they return 5 years later.

Markus

Whose five years - theirs or ours? ;)

Time always goes normal, btw. Only that it is - well, relative... Their five years would have gone normal. Ours would have gone normal. For them, five years of their time would have felt normal to them, and for us five of our years also would have felt normal.Not before they and us meet again we ntoive that somehting is... is... - well, welcome to the magic that relativity does! :D

After five years of our time here on Earth, such an expedition still would not have gotten very far.

These things are not difficult to wrap your mind around. All it takes is five bottles of Whisky, ten more of Vodka afterwards to keep a cool head, and a year's reserve of LSD pills.

[mapuc]

I mean they take of 1 June 2075 and return 31 May 2085.

They have been travelling above light speed several times, but neither theirs or our times has changed.

But it's only a thought.

Markus

[Rockstar]

^
What if and it is a big IF this theory is wrong.

What if times goes normal.

We send a spaceship on a 5 years journey where they use warp speed and they return 5 years later.

Markus


There is already experimental evidence that suggests time dialtion really exists. Global Positioning Satellite clocks on orbiting satellites move slower, The experiment involving atomic clocks on planes were recorded to move slower, Michelson-Morley experiment, Muon particles decay more slowly while falling

[mapuc]

There is already experimental evidence that time dialtion exists. Global Positioning Satellite clocks on orbiting satellites move slower, Atomic clocks on planes were recorded to move slower, Michelson-Morley experiment, Muon particles decay more slowly while falling

There goes my theory

I had hoped we could send a spaceship away on a 10 years faster than lightspeed and time here on earth would run normal and for the crew too.

Markus

[Skybird]

I mean they take of 1 June 2075 and return 31 May 2085.

They have been travelling above light speed several times, but neither theirs or our times has changed.



Ten years feel like ten years for them in their time bubble, and ten years feel like ten years for us in our time bubble. We are victims of circumstances, or better, victim sof our locations. Not before we compare our location to theirs we notice that there is a time deviation between both places/bubbles. For us, living inside the context of the location - theirs or ours - ten years feel like ten years, always. Only when we switch between contexts/places, we notice the difference, and this even only when the difference is big enough in total net sum.


Not that this is not totally correct. The time shift onyl happens if both bubbles/places move, do not keep the same relative psotiion to each other. If both are stationary, there is no time shift, both bubbles run their time synchronous. Its the movement that makes the difference. With higher speed, the time shif tbecomes more severe, and with reaching lightspeed, the travelling object wins mass - theoretically at light speed its mass must become infinite: the old argument why lightspeed could not be achieved.



I am not certain if that model still stands?

[Skybird]

I had hoped we could send a spaceship away on a 10 years faster than lightspeed and time here on earth would run normal and for the crew too.

No, not without some tricks and magic done that so far we have no idea of. I mean time runs normal for both teams in thgeir places, but the time would pass differently fast. Maybe with some Star Trek kind of cheating, where the conventional time-space continuum gets temporarily left and so physics laws of the continuum gets left behind, too. Or space gets folded like a leaf of paper and the traveller than slips directly form one psoiton on the leaf to the other that got folded onto his posiiton, so that he doe snot need to cover the space between the two locatiosn onc ethe leaf gets unfolded again and is plain again (worm hole theory, think of a fresh ink spot, then fold the paper and press it, and then unfold it: the wet ink has left a stamp, now delete the original dot, and there you are, one spot left,m but in another place).

Another model of time is completely different, it says that there is nothing like a flow of time, and no movement, but only an infinite amount of frozen static moments that in their totality describe and represent everything that ever was and ever will be, and we only move through endless long sequences of such frozen moments of time, with every moment being an unimaginably small total amount different from any other. Its like the deck of cards from a flip book (Daumenkino). Every image the cards show is static, but the fast sequencing through them creates the illusion of movement and flowing time of the action depicted.

Whatever we see, hear, feel, smell, taste , ntoice fon the universe - it never is the universe as it is, absolutely, but it just is the way in which our senses do their work for which they were designed, and if our senses would be differently, our image (= our inside-head model) of the univese we live in would be differently, too. We do never perceive a separate universe in a form of some penultimate reality or truth. We simply are part of it, or better, since the universe is in our mind and our mind is part of the universe: we ARE the universe. And thats it. That is something that mystics of various traditions and especially the Christian mystics (Meister Eckard and the likes) mentioned, and quite often. Its old stuff. Very old stuff. And they were very determined about it. Or as my old master often said: meditation is no wellness show, it is an issue that decides over life or death. Save me the esoteric music and psycho babble group!

Maybe the key to space travel is not to move through space, but to understand that we always are our own fix point in the universe and must/should/could make the universe move around us. I like to point out that our inner sphere - mind, psyche - and the otuer sophere - cosmic space - both have something in common: a vast amount of empty void, of empty space. Maybe we should not be so certain of that the inner and the outer space really are two different things. Maybe we should understand that they are both one and just one and the same infinite space? We ourselves then maybe only compare to the colourful surface of a soap bubble floating around. The air it contains and the air it is surrounded with - is there really a difference? The bubble plops open and is gone - but the one-space still prevails.

[mapuc]

Thank you for your reply to my comments on time and warp speed.

Are you 110 % sure there ain't some loophole in this law of psychics ?

Markus

[Skybird]

Since I tend to make my own psychic laws I am full of loopholes, essentially becoming one big infinite hole in our reality myself. The one curious exception from evertything that nobody has expected... :D I have fluffy white fur and long ears, and a golden pocket clock. LOL

[mapuc]

If aliens in the future should pay us earthling a visit

I hope they will come to enforce us world peace, where hate and aggression can be read in encyclopedias and to learn us live without money

Markus

[Rockstar]

Thank you for your reply to my comments on time and warp speed.

Are you 110 % sure there ain't some loophole in this law of psychics ?

Markus


I dont know if its a loophole but if other dimensions exist and interdimensional travel were possible. Then maybe beings from another reality could visit without the worry of travelling thru time space.

[Catfish]

If you wrapped a two dimensional object and printed a quantum computer on it, and were able to fold this to a proton's size, you could theoretically try to make this travel at almost light speed. Not that anyone here could do this, but even if - no human(!) could travel with it, and light speed is still much too slow.

[mapuc]

What about wormholes.

In especially Star Trek there are different type of wormholes, where you can travel great distances without using warp speed.

Don't know about our time and the time on the spaceship.

There will be a different but how much ?

Markus

[Von Due]

For those who don't know about her, Sabine Hossenfelder is a legit physicist who shares some of her views through YT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VWLjhJBCp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2c0P2CEU9A

[Skybird]

What about wormholes.

In especially Star Trek there are different type of wormholes, where you can travel great distances without using warp speed.

Don't know about our time and the time on the spaceship.

There will be a different but how much ?

Markus
My ink blot on a piece of paper and then folding it, creating a stamp of the ink somewhere else without the ink needing to run from here to there across all the paper - folding space this way, that is an often voiced idea about how wormholes maybe work. If they even exist.

[Rockstar]

If you wrapped a two dimensional object and printed a quantum computer on it, and were able to fold this to a proton's size, you could theoretically try to make this travel at almost light speed. Not that anyone here could do this, but even if - no human(!) could travel with it, and light speed is still much too slow.


Thats exactly what I was thinking.

[Platapus]

One has to recognize that the USS Enterprise of Star Trek fame needs to travel at the speed of the written plot.

[vienna]

https://rlv.zcache.com/speed_of_light_poster-r49203f2d3428480184f81f530e4ab085_ikt_8byvr_540.jp g


...and, for you Brits, ...



https://uncyclopedia.ca/w/images/9/9c/Speed_Limit.jpg




<O>

[Jimbuna]

One has to recognize that the USS Enterprise of Star Trek fame needs to travel at the speed of the written plot.

:haha:

[Onkel Neal]

https://youtu.be/UX18_ATKKLs

[Jeff-Groves]

I took a picture of a UFO near Green Bay a few years back.
It was invisible but punched a shape through clouds.
Took me a few minutes to run grab a camera so the shape is starting to fade.
When it happened that shape was sharp and just appeared in a split second!
It looked very much like the UFO's from "The Invaders"
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=11951

[Rockstar]

I've seen UFO's. Three made the news in Duluth, MN because a lot of people saw them as they flew over the city.

Another was when I lived in the Panama Canal Zone. My friend and I would sneak out on school nights to go snook fishing at the bottom of the Gatun Dam. To get there we had park at the top then walk down a trail through thick jungle. It was pretty isolated.

We saw this light go across the sky a short distance from us. We both stopped fishing and just watched as it stopped, hovered, then went straight down below the tree line on a hill across the river from us. We looked at each and my friend just dropped his gear and ran. I cut my line but took my rod with me as I chased after him. It scared the poop out of both of us. We hopped in that car and sped off.

It took about 6 months for to get the courage to go back. The fishing was just too good to pass up :)

[mapuc]

I must have to much subsim on my mind, ´cause what I see in the cloud is a faint shape of a sub

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

I've seen a lot of stuff I call UFO's over my 63 years on Earth.
I ain't saying they are from a far away galaxy but the things I saw were not just an ordinary everyday aircraft.
And they damned sure weren't balloons!

[Mr Quatro]

I've seen a lot of stuff I call UFO's over my 63 years on Earth.

Jeff's trying to pull a funny on us ... he's one of them :o

1957-58 was when they were flying over DC :yep:

[mapuc]

Jeff's trying to pull a funny on us ... he's one of them :o

1957-58 was when they were flying over DC :yep:

One of them :o

Is he one of the grey or perhaps he's a lizard ?

Markus

[Rockstar]

I've seen a lot of stuff I call UFO's over my 63 years on Earth.
I ain't saying they are from a far away galaxy but the things I saw were not just an ordinary everyday aircraft.
And they damned sure weren't balloons!

Ive only been around the Sun 59 times. What we saw that night on the spillway moved unlike anything either of us had ever seen. And we saw lot of military excercises and aircraft down there. I could tell ya just by hearing if it was an AH-1 or a UH-1 or whatever.

But that object which spooked us was close and it made no sound. Furthermore we thought whatever it was had LANDED too! So we hauled ass outta there.

[Jeff-Groves]

I have no solid idea what they are or where they come from.
I do believe they are real as I've seen to much to think other wise.

I'm am convinced our Government has things We don't know about.
Where they got them is the question.