Why So Many Aircraft Encounters

[akudjinn]

I just started running version 1.5 and still, nonstop aircraft encounters, even though I'm way out by Midway Island.

I don't understand... it makes the sim unplayable.

[Slyguy3129]

Aircraft are one of the most dangerous things to a sub.

Welcome to driving fleet boats in the Pacific. SubPac strongly suggest not traveling on the surface while in enemy territory!

[fireftr18]

I presume you're playing un-modded. I agree, base game, the aircraft encounters are overdone and irritating. The mega mods correct it. I know you can go in the files and change it, but I'm not sure of the path.
:Kaleun_Salute:

[propbeanie]

With the stock game, the easiest thing to do is to use Webster's Better Air Patrols (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1120222#post1120222) mod. It turns down the frequency, but increases the planes accuracy, so it's more important not to be seen. Use the SubSim download link, since Filefront is no more. One thing to remember about the airplanes is that they have these super-radio sets in their airplanes, and can fone home and tell all their buddies about your submarine traveling on the surface at 10 knots, course 276 142 nautical miles off of Kii Suido. So don't let the first one see you. If he does, dive below 100 foot, and then change course. If it's late in the day, just stay down until dark, then get back up top and continue on your way. :salute:


Edit: Corrected the link - when using keyboard shortcuts, one does have to be careful with how long they press the keys... :roll:

[Aktungbby]

akudjinn!:Kaleun_Salute: after a nine year silent run!

[akudjinn]

So I leave Pearl and refit in Midway and head to Saipan... at the slowest speed I'm out of fuel and cannot get back.

[Slyguy3129]

Situational awareness is for everyone. Always keep an eye on your fuel. There are also buttons you can push that will tell you max range at current speed.

All Ahead flank might get you there yesterday, but you'll run out of fuel last week.

[Pisces]

Slow speed doesn't get you better mileage either. There is a sweet-spot inside 8-10 knots somewhere. I guess it depends on the mod you are using. I forgot, did the game have the option to tell mileage at current speed? I haven't played my install of RFB2 in ages, but I think it did. I know I did my own mod-tweak by setting my ahead standard speed EOT setting to that fraction of maximum surfaced speed.

[Sniper297]

Looking at the default PORPOISE class with Silent 3ditor, in the NSS_Porpoise.sim file, max range is 14,300 miles at 10 knots. All ahead 2/3rds rather than Standard gets you 10 knots.

I'm currently working on a couple mods, one to place refueling bases closer to Japan and the Philippines, the other with a forward base on a small island to start the Pearl Harbor career, eliminating that tedious boring dreary slog all the way across the Pacific. I know it's historic but I'm playing a game here, staring at a screen for 20 minutes constantly getting bumped out of time compression for radio messages is not my definition of entertainment.

Doing refueling bases is pretty simple, fire up the mission editor, open US_NavalBases.mis, click the tab for Land, American, NB Naval Base, drag and drop that on the map, give it a name. Get within 10 miles and you can refit, full fuel tanks and torpedoes. You can even drop one in the middle of Tokyo Bay if you want to go crazy. Just remember to click on Mission, Parameters, and check the box for "Ignore player submarines" on so you don't get that silly error when you save it.

As for ridiculous air attacks, that's even easier to mod yourself;

Data\Cfg\AirStrike.cfg can be edited with notepad or any text editor.

Maximum Aircraft Range=2000 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.35 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.7 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=10 ;[>0] Default

You can change the modifiers if desired, but a simple hack is to change that
Maximum Aircraft Range=2000
to
Maximum Aircraft Range=200

Which is a more reasonable distance from land to start worrying about air attacks. I suspect the creators were trying to capture the feeling of the U-boats trying to cross the Bay of Biscay in 1944 under constant harassment by Sunderlands, but the result was more aircraft than existed in the history of the world for that kind of coverage.

[Sniper297]

Mods are ready;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2605638#post2605638

Testing with these, a PORPOISE running at Standard making 15 knots burns almost as much fuel as a 1970s Buick. :haha:

[Red Devil]

Do what sniper says. I was in same position, untold aircraft in the middle of nowhere. So I 'cheated' and made adjustments, sometimes halving their range, big help.

[Red Devil]

Mods are ready;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2605638#post2605638

Testing with these, a PORPOISE running at Standard making 15 knots burns almost as much fuel as a 1970s Buick. :haha:

and the Buick was at periscope depth :arrgh!:

[jimmbbo]

With the stock game, the easiest thing to do is to use Webster's Better Air Patrols (vhttp://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1120222#post1120222) mod. It turns down the frequency, but increases the planes accuracy, so it's more important not to be seen.
Thanks for the mod!! :yeah:
I started a new career and the airplanes started appearing like mosquitoes on a summer Georgia evening... Have always been cautious to submerge if I will be within 5 miles of the airplane, so this will be a plus.

FWIW, the hyperlink was dead for me. It has a "v" ahead of "http"... Removed the leading "v" and this link worked for me

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1120222#post1120222

[Red Devil]

you want MORE aircraft! I lowered it down to approx 20% of what it was as the chances of being met by a zero or betty in the pacific is minimal, especially miles from anywhere or jap bases. The nearer to occupied jap lands obviously that would increase.

[Red Devil]

Looking at the default PORPOISE class with Silent 3ditor, in the NSS_Porpoise.sim file, max range is 14,300 miles at 10 knots. All ahead 2/3rds rather than Standard gets you 10 knots.

I'm currently working on a couple mods, one to place refueling bases closer to Japan and the Philippines, the other with a forward base on a small island to start the Pearl Harbor career, eliminating that tedious boring dreary slog all the way across the Pacific. I know it's historic but I'm playing a game here, staring at a screen for 20 minutes constantly getting bumped out of time compression for radio messages is not my definition of entertainment.

Doing refueling bases is pretty simple, fire up the mission editor, open US_NavalBases.mis, click the tab for Land, American, NB Naval Base, drag and drop that on the map, give it a name. Get within 10 miles and you can refit, full fuel tanks and torpedoes. You can even drop one in the middle of Tokyo Bay if you want to go crazy. Just remember to click on Mission, Parameters, and check the box for "Ignore player submarines" on so you don't get that silly error when you save it.

As for ridiculous air attacks, that's even easier to mod yourself;

Data\Cfg\AirStrike.cfg can be edited with notepad or any text editor.

Maximum Aircraft Range=2000 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.35 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.7 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=10 ;[>0] Default

You can change the modifiers if desired, but a simple hack is to change that
Maximum Aircraft Range=2000
to
Maximum Aircraft Range=200

Which is a more reasonable distance from land to start worrying about air attacks. I suspect the creators were trying to capture the feeling of the U-boats trying to cross the Bay of Biscay in 1944 under constant harassment by Sunderlands,but the result was more aircraft than existed in the history of the world for that kind of coverage.


This is what I do when starting new install. I 'arrange' ranges and modifiers. I still have planes but not in mid pacific, unless I am closing in on a task Force. By the way - the term 'Task Force' should NOT apply to a destroyer patrol of 2 D's and a gunboat. If someone would like to change it, feel free.

I feel that I should point out one sentence in the above narrative - the sentence in bold. The Bay of Biscay was patrolled by Captain Walker RN and his 6 black swan sloops, every u boat he found, he sank. Walker saw more FW Condors than Sunderlands. For the sake of historical fact, the long range Sunderland played a small part in the Bay as they were mostly used over Atlantic. Walkers ships were the Second Support Group, as opposed to Escort Groups and roamed freely hunting U boats. These were the first 'hunter killer' ships. A phrase the Americans like to think they invented. Walkers boss, Admiral Horton, CinC Western Approaches, a former submariner, gave Walker free will to roam. A lot of Walkers tactics were adopted by the Royal Navy, some of which are still in use today. On one single patrol walkers ships got 6 u boats. In WW2 history it became the '6 in one trip' patrol. Incidently, it was Horton in WW1 who invented the flying of the Jolly Roger when he came back from a successful trip. The stiff necks thought it unfair, but Horton wouldn't listen. If you want anything else on this, click on my walker link below.

[Red Devil]

So I leave Pearl and refit in Midway and head to Saipan... at the slowest speed I'm out of fuel and cannot get back.

I leave fuel on unlimited otherwise its impossible to do 75% or so within the parameters. I got so fed up to have to abandon patrols. And, if a Task Force is ahead of you, you cant catch it by doing an 'end around attack' otherwise no go home baby!!!

[Webster]

I just started running version 1.5 and still, nonstop aircraft encounters, even though I'm way out by Midway Island.

I don't understand... it makes the sim unplayable.

draw a straight line from pearl to tokyo and from tokyo to taiwan
those are the airplane highways filled with non stop planes in both directions.

simply stay to one side and you will hardly have plans bother you unless you make enemy contact that reports you.

i have a simple little mod that also shuts down the overly stupid large numbers of planes to a more semi realistic traffic

[Red Devil]

surely Pearl to Tokyo is well out of range? Thats why Doolittle in 42 bombed Tokyo and carried into nationalist china to land, he could not have done a return trip.

By the way, after putting in your suggested folder replacements, I am sitting NW of Midway right now waiting for the Jap fleet, its almost 1st June and reports should be coming in soon. If I dont find them, you're sunk!!!! :haha:

[Mios 4Me]

September 1942, Phillippines, and these all these aircraft are making the game unplayable. I can't go 30 minutes without a contact.

I'm running stock with hacks from Sniper, et al, which enabled the 1945 Balao with Mk 16s, fore-and-aft 5" guns, the latest radars, etc, along with removing the crew rank limits.

Would GFO work in this situation or must I wipe everything, install GFO, and then the hacks?

[propbeanie]

Mods will sometimes overwrite previously applied mods, but the amount of change would vary, and it is tough to say what is compatible with what. It might just be that you end up with a CTD. The biggest problem with applying mods is the Save game folder. Anytime changes are made to the game with a mod, the Save folder should either be deleted, or use MultiSH4 to create a new one of a different name. If you don't get a "clean" Save folder, then the old Save contaminates the new mod activation, resulting in at least a weird mess, but oftentimes results in continuous CTD problems.

The big things with airplanes, especially in the Philippines, is just the sheer numbers available. Lots of places for them to come from. Second of all, the first one that "sees" you, tells all of his "buddies" that there is a submarine in the area, and since a submarine has a rather restricted speed, they can draw a circle on their "maps", and search within a smaller box and find you easier the second time. If you maintain course and speed, they'll find you even easier the third time. Next thing you know, they're parked on top of your location, just waiting on you to surface. Each time you are "seen", it confirms your location, and brings more planes. Maybe even a DD or two... The "secret" is to not be seen - by anything - until you are ready to strike. Much easier said than done, of course. One mod you should be able to put on top of what you have, without too much trouble, would be Webster's Better Air Patrols for v1.4 and v1.5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1120222#post1120222), which he alluded to above. Decreases the frequency, but it does up the accuracy of what you do get, so you do have to be careful with that...

The thing to do to "shake" the planes, is to stay submerged for a while staying below 100 foot, but change your heading drastically. Come back up at night, and under cover of darkness, high-tail it out of the area, then resume "normal operations". :salute:

[Red Devil]

September 1942, Phillippines, and these all these aircraft are making the game unplayable. I can't go 30 minutes without a contact.

I'm running stock with hacks from Sniper, et al, which enabled the 1945 Balao with Mk 16s, fore-and-aft 5" guns, the latest radars, etc, along with removing the crew rank limits.

Would GFO work in this situation or must I wipe everything, install GFO, and then the hacks?

aircraft frequency: the easy way is to go into data/cfg/airstrike and amend ranges, airfields etc then save.

[Mios 4Me]

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. I'd cut the range to 200km and stay undetected but Uncle Charlie insists on sending us to the Filipino coasts, especially the entrance to Manila Bay. I'll try installing Webster's fix and hope for the best.

[Red Devil]

Mios, the game may give you a patrol point to go to, but you dont have to; there are no penalties for going off on your own. The only penalty as such is if you come home without any successes.

[Mios 4Me]

Good point. I usually try to complete one or two assignments before going completely off the reservation. In a previous career, GFO instead of stock, I noticed that the game often rewarded us with unreported fleet contacts when in compliance.



This career not so much.

[Rockin Robbins]

There is one reason we think there are too many airplanes in SH4. That's time compression. Turn time compression off and play 24 hours for a few days and you'll see that air attacks are not too common.

Nobody will ever do that. But remember that at 1000x time compression, each minute is 16 hours and 40 minutes game time. Now crank it up to 8192x and do the math. Time compression ruins our interpretation of reality.:D

[Mios 4Me]

Day 1, Palawan Passage northbound
Aircraft contacts: 2 in the morning; 8 in the afternoon.

Day 2, off Manila Bay to Ormoc
Aircraft contacts: 20 dawn-to-dusk

I noted each contact time, then dived for 10+ min; aircraft that were still transiting when I resurfaced were not counted again. Multiple bogies counted as one contact.

Day 2 was especially annoying, but I'm glad I ran the trial. Transiting up from the Celebes Sea, I stumbled on a CV task force which quickly became a CL task force.

Results in the Luzon Strait have been similar. I realize these are heavily patrolled areas historically, but this was far beyond what I would have expected.

[propbeanie]

As mentioned though, they see you, they stick with you. Also, as mentioned there are a lot of airbases nearby for them to generate from. And, you encountered a CV group - those are airfields also and do generate airplanes that come after you. Sometimes, a carrier that has 30 or 40 some-odd planes, will send all of them at you at one time - all of them, then turn around and do it all over again at the spawn cycle time, whether the other planes would have been back yet, fueled and re-loaded or not... The game can be strange like that. But in real life, they would have kept sending airplanes out to a reported sub site, if they had the assets available. :salute:

[Mios 4Me]

The CV group was in the Sulu Sea days before and I wasn't spotted off Luzon. As soon as a contact came in, I noted the time and dived for 10 min plus. I understand it's a well-patrolled area but twenty game interruptions in less than ten hours seems excessive.

[Red Devil]

I know some of us are die hard accuracy fans, but it is only a game. Make the adjustments to whatever, and enjoy :yeah:

[Mios 4Me]

If you mean me, that post was in response to the assertion in #25, not a renewed complaint.

Of course, if accuracy were truly an issue, I wouldn't have chosen the name Mios, as that base in SH4 is over a thousand km west/NW of where it really was. It's very convenient though, as long as you realize the subchaser patrolling just offshore isn't there for your benefit.

[Red Devil]

If you mean me, that post was in response to the assertion in #25, not a renewed complaint.

Of course, if accuracy were truly an issue, I wouldn't have chosen the name Mios, as that base in SH4 is over a thousand km west/NW of where it really was. It's very convenient though, as long as you realize the subchaser patrolling just offshore isn't there for your benefit. Not aimed at anyone, just a general comment

[Rockin Robbins]

That's the one wrinkle here. Don't be seen! If you're seen these Japanese planes talk like a bunch of schoolgirls inviting their friends to the party. You're the cake and ice cream. This can continue for two or three days after being sighted. In TC when you see a plane you're most likely seen, bringing on the party.:/\\chop:/ For an example, see my old video on Aircraft Avoidance in SH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hidf8p64_CE

[Red Devil]

Hey Rock - what map version is/was that? Places actually have labels on!! Something I have always wanted and hated that I do not. eg: radio report - IJN near 'a place' which means I have to go to google earth to find out where it is - sort of.

On same topic I wish someone would fix something that has been broken since day one of the sim - the name of New Guinea. Only ONE E.

[Webster]

On same topic I wish someone would fix something that has been broken since day one of the sim - the name of New Guinea. Only ONE E.

someone did a mod that fixes the map names, there are far more typos then most people notice.

find that mod, open it and see what files it contains. those are the files that need modding to fix the map names so you can use that mod or just fix it yourself

[propbeanie]

It is the "Campaign_NMS.mis" file in the "Data / Campaigns / Campaign" folder that "calls" dds files in the "Data / Terrain / LocationMaps" folder. In this particular instance, the name of the dds file is "NewGuineea.dds", which in FotRSU will display the text "New Guinea" on the NavMap. That would be the only file that would need to be altered. Probably the easiest way to do that is to grab the FotRSU mod and copy that dds file out of it over into the game folder that you usually play.

If you want more names on the NavMap, you could try what KaleunMarco and I have been working on with "RFB_LocNames.7z (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5496)", which is JSGME compliant, and will overwrite the Campaign_NMS.mis file and the LocationMaps folder contents of any mod or Stock. It was written specifically for KaleunMarco's RFBv2 install, but should work on top of any mod. We are not at an "official release" stage yet, but if you want to try it out, and PM me any issues you have with it - have at it... All typos might not be fixed... :roll: :salute:

[Red Devil]

Good, thanbks but one question, whats a FOTrsu ?

[propbeanie]

Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate mod, based on FOTRS from AOTD_MadMax. Click on the image to the left in my signature, and it will take you to the first page of the thread where the download link is.

[Red Devil]

danke schon. I am going to remove all mods and then jsgme it into sim, I want to see it without anything else added.

[propbeanie]

If you have the hard drive space, you can make multiple SH4 folder copies, each with their own name, and with the use of MultiSH4 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1110), have a separate Save folder for each, thereby allowing you to have, as an example, a copy of the game with the mod you are currently using, a copy of the game with the mod you want to experiment with, and a Stock copy that you keep clean, and have made the copies for the other two from. With MultiSH4, the copies of the game do not cross-contaminate each other via the Save folder. :salute:

[Red Devil]

I installed easily enough, started a new career too in a Sargo, in case, ran that and sank 3 cruisers near Philippines. Then went back and added webbies torps v3; FJB colour map and csl deck gun optics. Went back to a Drum save and so far everything is running really smoothly.

I have SH4 on my E drive (1TB) so plenty of space. I will try a virgin install into a new folder and leave it there for now.


edit: ah well, drum save crashed to desktop after I had a lovely day v convoy; no way am I going back to that to do it again. Now going to try sargo save

[Red Devil]

Since running on FOTRS i am now experiencing crashes loading USS Drum saves, again. I switch to a sargo save and it loaded perfectly.

Going to try now and remove mods and see if drum loads

edit: removed mod and drum saves opened and ran perfectly.

[propbeanie]

You cannot expect a Save from a previous mod state to ever run correctly in SH4 - even minor mods can often throw things off to the point of a crash, or at the least, corruption in the display and/or game-play. FotRSU not only changes the AI and environment, ship configurations, etc., but there are quite a few ships and planes and land units that are called and used quite differently than they are in other mods or stock. As an example, if you encounter a BB Fuso in stock, it does not generate scout planes. In FotRSU, it does. In stock, a CA Northampton, is classified as "Type=7 Heavy Cruiser". In FotRSU, it is "Type=19 Heavy Warship with Scout Planes". If you load a Save game from something other than an FotRSU save, you will most likely crash. Other mods, such as TMO or RSRDC, etc., do similar, though their changes might not be as extensive as FotRSU's are.

When doing mods, it is recommended to always empty the Save folder after activating the mod, and then playing, so that the game generates a new set of the altered files in that Save folder. The game runs mostly from that Save folder information. This is even recommended if you use MultiSH4 and have a separate install and Save folder for each mod you use. If you install and activate a new version of the same mod, you are usually better off starting with a "fresh" Save folder. When you use an old Save, the information for the ships and planes you have encountered might be different, such as the Type=7 versus Type=19 example above. The two assets have the same "name", but a different Type=, and that will definitely crash the game on you... :salute:

[von Zelda]

Hey Red Devil,

You state, "Then went back and added webbies torps v3; FJB colour map and csl deck gun optics".

I've used all three mods you list, plus more. The only known conflict has been with Webster's Improved US Torpedo Mod that causes 100% CTDs with MK10s on impact and occasional CTDs with MK14s. I've read, you do not want to run his Torpedo Test Mission along with normal game play. This may have contributed to CTDs with a few MK14s?

I use SH4 and U-boat Missions from Steam; thus, I have v1.5
The addition of U-boat Missions and GFO has made the game worthwhile.

I use NO mega mods except for Webster's GFO. I use four other Webster mods that are not included in GFO and some 30 other, various mods. I've been selective and careful installing them individually to check for conflicts. And so far its running smoothly.

Let me know if you'd like a list of my mods and order of install.

[Red Devil]

prop it was a new career mate. Not a save because the previous save that crashed was before I added the mod. So I started again, as with the Sargo. Sargo runs fine.

[Red Devil]

Hey Red Devil,

You state, "Then went back and added webbies torps v3; FJB colour map and csl deck gun optics".

I've used all three mods you list, plus more. The only known conflict has been with Webster's Improved US Torpedo Mod that causes 100% CTDs with MK10s on impact and occasional CTDs with MK14s. I've read, you do not want to run his Torpedo Test Mission along with normal game play. This may have contributed to CTDs with a few MK14s?

I use SH4 and U-boat Missions from Steam; thus, I have v1.5
The addition of U-boat Missions and GFO has made the game worthwhile.

I use NO mega mods except for Webster's GFO. I use four other Webster mods that are not included in GFO and some 30 other, various mods. I've been selective and careful installing them individually to check for conflicts. And so far its running smoothly.

Let me know if you'd like a list of my mods and order of install.

the mods I am currently running on AFTER the crash are:

RSRDC TMO 5_2
RSRDC V5xxx patch 1
Webbies improved torp v3
FJB Colour map
CSL Deck gun optics
pacific sound mod

what I had before was

FOTR v0.90
FJB Colour map
Webbies improved us torps v3
CSDL Deck gun optics

Neal might be shouting at us soon, we have screwed up the thread on aircraft

[propbeanie]

the mods I am currently running on AFTER the crash are:

RSRDC TMO 5_2
RSRDC V5xxx patch 1
Webbies improved torp v3
FJB Colour map
CSL Deck gun optics
pacific sound mod

what I had before was

FOTR v0.90
FJB Colour map
Webbies improved us torps v3
CSDL Deck gun optics

Neal might be shouting at us soon, we have screwed up the thread on aircraft
FotRSU has the NMMO navmap, and has several changes to torpedoes that are necessary for the mod, and changing the deck gun optics changes CapnScurvy's changes to the submarines' optics, which are "historically" accurate, as far as zoom levels go. I'm not certain if the NavMap and optics changes would affect getting a CTD, but the torpedo change would. It is not recommended to run any other mods on top of FotRSU at this time, until we do an initial full release and then get some "authorized" mods out. As a little side-note to that, I did find a "date" issue in the Sargo configuration leaving Pearl Harbor if certain missions are assigned, to it is recommended that a person not take a Sargo from Pearl with v0.90 until the next release comes out.

Now, as far as your version of RSRDC, if you are using the TMO named RSRDC, then you don't have a "complete" mod there. If all you want is RSRDC on top of Stock, or on top of GFO, then use the "plain-named" RSRDC. If however, you activate TMO first, then use the TMO_RSRDC mods. The same "Patch" is used for all versions of v5xx RSRDC... but again, be careful of torp mods in TMO, since Ducimus made changes to the torpedoes also. If it works, fine. You may find though that the Mark10s in an S-Boat might CTD the game. ymmv - The main thing though, as several have stated on the site here is: "Have fun", so do what you want, just be aware. :salute:

[Red Devil]

you know, in all this time of playing SH4 I never knew RSRDC had a 'stock' none tmo version. I have downloaded one, RSRDC 401, and will install that on its own, start a new career and see how it runs.

[propbeanie]

Now, don't go putting that old thang on your computer, unless you're just confused by lurker's thread titling... or you like it better that v550... The thread Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign V4xx (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=667498#post667498) actually has v550 for Stock on it as the download link. lurker just neglected to have a moderator of the forum change his thread title is all... :salute:

[Red Devil]

thanks prop, I binned it almost immediately, it was rubbish.