Notre-Dame cathedral ablaze

[Eichhörnchen]

This is almost too awful to contemplate:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47941794

[Schroeder]

That's a tragedy.:cry:

[_dgn_]

Thanks for opening this thread, Eichhörnchen, I was about to create one about this disaster.

The fire is terrible, maybe an accident because of current works in the symbol of the medieval Paris (of France, too, and maybe of the Christian occident).

The "forêt Notre-Dame" (or Notre-Dame forest, all the innumerable tree trunks supporting the build of the roof) is burning !

Hopeless !

Cheers.

[Aktungbby]

NO DOUBT ISIS OR THE TALIBAN WILL TAKE CREDIT FOR THIS ONE. :hmmm:

[mapuc]

It's so terrible to see, one of the most famouse cathedral is burning.

History is being eaten by fire.

While watching live stream from this terrible thing, I can't help thinking of different type of aftermath.

Will it be rebuild and will it be as it was before this fire or ?

Markus

[Catfish]

They were underway restoring, and obviously the working crew did not work properly.

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks for opening this thread, Eichhörnchen, I was about to create one about this disaster.

The fire is terrible, maybe an accident because of current works in the symbol of the medieval Paris (of France, too, and maybe of the Christian occident).

The "forêt Notre-Dame" (or Notre-Dame forest, all the innumerable tree trunks supporting the build of the roof) is burning !

Hopeless !

Cheers.

Well it is certainly a heartbreaking thing, my friend... that poor, beautiful city

[Mr Quatro]

They were underway restoring, and obviously the working crew did not work properly.

I think that's it Catfish ... of course so close to Easter is also a consideration, but the enemy would be crazy to take the blame even if they didn't do it.

Hollow on the inside made be like an oven on the inside. All of those priceless paintings, art works, and even the windows alone are not replaceable.

I hear it was built in 1100 ad :o

[Skybird]

Tragic


:cry:

[Skybird]

Command of the Paris fire fighters says that the building "in its structure" most likely now could be saved, and that both big towers are saved form collapsing. Intensity of fire now slowly dropping. Further spreading unlikely. Artworks get removed currently, but under exetremely dangerous conditions and in bad visibility (smoke inside). At least one fire fighter seriously injured by dropping parts of the roof. Over 400 fire fighters in action. Planes do not get used, due to concerns that waterbombs would let more of the structure collapse.

The old dame may get away with two black eyes and several lost teeth, but it seems it was close to an ending much worse.

[August]

Such a sad thing to see. Like the Cutty Sark fire you're watching history disappear before your very eyes.

[Commander Wallace]

I saw this as well. This is really tragic and devastating. I watched live footage in disbelief. The Notre Dame Cathedral really has a historic place among prominent buildings and churches. The Gothic styling Of Notre Dame is beautiful and has influenced many Churches.


Quote: The cathedral is one of the most widely-recognized symbols of not only the city of Paris but the French nation. It is the subject of or has inspired many works such as Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame and its 1996 Disney film adaption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunchback_of_Notre_Dame_(1996_film)). As the cathedral of the Archdiocese of Paris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archdiocese_of_Paris), Notre-Dame contains the cathedra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedra) of the Archbishop of Paris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_of_Paris) (Michel Aupetit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Aupetit)). 12 million people visit Notre-Dame yearly, it thus being the most visited monument in Paris.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#cite_note-ParisDigest-10)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris

The Cathedral was in the middle of an exciting restoration.


* I was contacted earlier today and I was asked, since I'm having back issues, if I could replace the hunchback, until the cathedral is re-built to it's once splendor and grandeur.


Negotiations are ongoing.....


All jokes aside, I hope Notre Dame is rebuilt not only for France and it's people but for all the world to see and enjoy.

[Reece]

Such a tragedy and so close to the Easter celebrations. :wah:

[d@rk51d3]

Artworks get removed currently, but under exetremely dangerous conditions and in bad visibility (smoke inside).

Reports here say that most of the artworks were already removed due to the renovations.

[Dowly]

Looks like the interior is in a better shape than first feared. Even the north rose windows seems mostly intact.
https://i.redd.it/nvvsojcrhks21.jpg

[STEED]

In the next few days we will find out how much was destroyed and how much was saved and can be repaired. One thing is for sure its a big job that will take a few years.

[Jimbuna]

Such a tragedy and so close to the Easter celebrations. :wah:

Rgr that :yep:

[Reece]

There isn't a question about saving it, it has to be done, the biggest immediate problem is getting some sort of tarp over it to stop the rain getting in. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

I have a hunch (no pun intended) that Macron will turn this into a political football.

[Commander Wallace]

The artwork from the Notre Dame Cathedral is reportedly being sent to the Louvre for safe keeping while damage is being assessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-france-macron-live-updates

Donations are also pouring in for the rebuild including a donation of 100 million Euros from French Billionaire, Francois-Henri Pinault to assist in the planned rebuilding efforts.

https://kristv.com/news/world-news/2019/04/15/billionaire-pledges-100-million-euros-to-restore-notre-dame-cathedral/

Does anyone known if the damage was limited to the roof and spire? I can't find any info and i'm thinking a damage assesment hasn't even started. I'm wondering if the structural integrity of the cathedral was compromised or if the damage was limited to those piece like the roof and spire that can be replaced. Perhaps our French Subsim members like dgn might know ?

[Aktungbby]

I have a hunch (no pun intended) that Macron will turn this into a political football. TOO BAD TORPLEXED ISN'T AROUND TO DO A POLITICAL CARTOON BASED ON THAT STATEMENT
:arrgh!: https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/B3-DS489_backgr_16U_20190415190809.jpg<The wooden frame of the cathedral’s roof was constructed in 1220. Each beam was hewn from a different oak tree. The cathedral roof is made of more than 1,300 lead tiles, each about a quarter-inch thick. as the flames engulfed the cathedral’s roof, they consumed sections of its interior frame. Nicknamed “the forest” for the number of oak trees used to construct its wooden beams, the frame was among the oldest in church architecture.
“Essentially it’s kindling,” said Anne E. Lester, associate professor of medieval history at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s made from timber that’s now hundreds of years old. It would have been dried out.” THE SPIRE SEEN TOPPLING WAS ACTUALLY A 19 CENTURY ADDITION AND NOT PART OF THE MEDIEVAL GOTHIC STRUCTURE PER SE; ONE OF THE ISSUES WAS THE BRITTLE LIMSTONE ROCK NOT REACTING WELL TO THE FIREWATER FROM FIRE HOSES. FORTUNATELY THE STATUES AROUND THE COLLAPSED SPIRE HAD ALL BEEN REMOVEED FROM THE ROOF FOR RENOVATION. UNFORTUNATELY, NUTHIN' NEW HERE: THE EQUALLY SPECTACULAR CATHEDRAL AT CHARTRES SUFFERED A SIMILAR ROOF FIRE AND WAS REPLACED WITH STEEL ROOF TRUSSES IN THE 1800'S....In 1836, the old lead-covered roof, with its complex structure of timber supports (known as 'the forest') was destroyed by fire. It was replaced with a copper-clad roof supported by a network of cast iron ribs, known as the Charpente de fer. At the time, the framework over the crossing had the largest span of any iron framed construction in Europe.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Chartres_roof_space_the_Charpente_de_Fer.jpg/220px-Chartres_roof_space_the_Charpente_de_Fer.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chartres_roof_space_the_Charpente_de_Fer.jpg)<CLIK2ENLARGE https://images.wsj.net/im-67094/IM AS FOR PRESIDENT MACRON: "WE WILL REBUILD"....WELCOME TO CALIFORNIA MON PRESIDENTE:|\\

[_dgn_]

Well it is certainly a heartbreaking thing, my friend... that poor, beautiful city

Thanks for your words, Eichhörnchen.

I know that circumstances are not the same, but when I saw the spire of Notre-Dame collapsing, I immediatly remember the video report maded by the Naudet brothers on 9/11 about New-York attack : in the both cases, my sentiments in front of these horrific scenes were, initially, "only" incredulity.

Unfortunately, this wasn't a simple dream ...

Cheers.

[_dgn_]

The artwork from the Notre Dame Cathedral is reportedly being sent to the Louvre for safe keeping while damage is being assessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-france-macron-live-updates

Donations are also pouring in for the rebuild including a donation of 100 million Euros from French Billionaire, Francois-Henri Pinault to assist in the planned rebuilding efforts.

https://kristv.com/news/world-news/2019/04/15/billionaire-pledges-100-million-euros-to-restore-notre-dame-cathedral/

Does anyone known if the damage was limited to the roof and spire? I can't find any info and i'm thinking a damage assesment hasn't even started. I'm wondering if the structural integrity of the cathedral was compromised or if the damage was limited to those piece like the roof and spire that can be replaced. Perhaps our French Subsim members like dgn might know ?

The 16 copper statues around the spire (the 12 apostles + the 4 evangelists) were fortunately removed last week, for the beginning of the planned works. "Fortunately"salvaged : they would not been able to resist to the fall of the spire, constituted of 500 tons of wood and 250 tons of lead ...

Yestersday, the saved precious objects from Notre-Dame were stored, for security reasons, in the near "Préfecture de Police" (Paris police headquarters), and in the near "Mairie de Paris" (main city hall), but the Louvres Museum seems to be more appropriate for storing such religious/historical/artistical items, with the same security level.

Difficult to know, today, exactly what was (partially/totally) destroyed or (lightly/severely) damaged. And water used by the BSBP (the military firemen Brigade in Paris) has naturally caused damages, but protected the 3 rose windows to blow (some light damages in these pieces dating from XIInd and XIIIrd century, but the lead holding the coloured glas pieces didnt' fuse). But much damages with the other stained-glass windows (dating from XIXth century).

Some large paintings (generally 2x3 m -> difficult to dismount and to rapidly take them) disappeared "for all eternity" in the flames, but the main altar survived. Some "small" collapses in the vault, but the main vault resisted. And the great organ (8000 pipes made from lead & tin) was preserved, not only from the fire, but from the water hoses (located under the Northern rose window, largely watered by the firemen).

The main Christian relics ("Crown of thorns" of Jesus, a nail from the "Holy Cross" and a small part of this cross, the tunic of the king Saint Louis) were first taken away, but a statue (a coq) containing a small chunk of the "Crown of thorns", a relic from Saint-Denis and another from Sainte-Geneviève (patroness of Lutetia/Paris) were destroyed, because located at the tip of the spire. Other (minor) relics and some precious liturgical items seem to be considered as "missing", while the Treasury of Notre-Dame remains intact.

A precise inventory (about artefacts and about the building itself) will be possible in the next days, but if the main stucture of the cathedral is still present, it's difficult to know its real state. When stones reach a high temperature, and after a thermal shock with cold water (pumped directly from the Seine River), some serious investigations about the materials are necessary. And a large amount of humidity needs now to be drained.

750 million Euros seems bo be collected today : Pinault & "Total", but also Françoise Bettencourt & "L’Oréal" (200 million), Bernard Arnault and "LVMH" (same amount), French banks ... Outside France : Tim Cook & "Apple".

But a national contribution is about to be organized, without any speculation objective. Because the readiness of the "big" French firms for giving much money is hiding the possibility for them to gain tax credits. A well aimed charity !

So some recent informations, as requested by Commander Wallace.

Cheers.

[vienna]

It is a great tragedy on many levels:


ND is a long-lived part of history and stands as a monument to the historical events it over-viewed;

ND is a vital part of the Parisian landscape and identity;

ND is an invaluable work of art and architecture without a match anywhere in the world;

ND is prime center of the religious community in Paris and around the world...


The last pint is particularly of note; I recall when the 1994 Northridge Earthquake rattled Southern California; there was a fault line that ran from Hollywood, through the West Side of LA, and on to the ocean that came to life and spread damage all along the fault line; I took a very long walk along the route of the fault to see what the effects of the quake were; as I walked along, I noted several churches, and other houses of worship, that suffered damage , a few of them very extensive damage; the thought occurred to me that many people would turn to those houses of faith for solace and find their refuges unavailable; I'm not religious, but it was a sad thought; I can only imagine what the loss of ND means to the faithful of France...









<O>

[Onkel Neal]

@_dgn_

My heart goes out to your people. What a tragedy. Both of my older daughters called me upset, they had each visited Paris on my urging a few years back, and they were enchanted by Notre Dame cathedral.

Fear not, your country and Paris have our support. The cathedral will be repaired and her beauty will soar once again.

[Buddahaid]

Well just to be an ass, where do freedom fries fit in this picture?

[Catfish]

Thanks _dgn_ for more information. We were dumbstruck seeing this in the news, and could at first not believe it. I hope it can be restored.

[em2nought]

The damage other than the roof doesn't look too awful. :up: Especially when you consider how bad the fire looked while it was raging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfzApozMi0

[Dowly]

View of the exterior roof:
https://i.imgur.com/7c6A3QK.gifv

[Skybird]

The stomnes got baken, and then soaked off all the water. Needs to show whether the structure still is solid or not. If it is, the roof will be rebuilt, and if the structure must be rebuild, so it will be done. Its an opporutnity to replace the roof structure made of wood with one made of steel, which is lighter and obviously less critical in case of fire. I do not know how dark or liht it wa sinside the church, but it could also be an opportunity to install a modern light system, like they did in the super-dark catacomb they call Kölner Dom.


The show is over. Looking forward already. They money the seem to have already.

[Commander Wallace]

The 16 copper statues around the spire (the 12 apostles + the 4 evangelists) were fortunately removed last week, for the beginning of the planned works. "Fortunately"salvaged : they would not been able to resist to the fall of the spire, constituted of 500 tons of wood and 250 tons of lead ...

Yestersday, the saved precious objects from Notre-Dame were stored, for security reasons, in the near "Préfecture de Police" (Paris police headquarters), and in the near "Mairie de Paris" (main city hall), but the Louvres Museum seems to be more appropriate for storing such religious/historical/artistical items, with the same security level.

Difficult to know, today, exactly what was (partially/totally) destroyed or (lightly/severely) damaged. And water used by the BSBP (the military firemen Brigade in Paris) has naturally caused damages, but protected the 3 rose windows to blow (some light damages in these pieces dating from XIInd and XIIIrd century, but the lead holding the coloured glas pieces didnt' fuse). But much damages with the other stained-glass windows (dating from XIXth century).

Some large paintings (generally 2x3 m -> difficult to dismount and to rapidly take them) disappeared "for all eternity" in the flames, but the main altar survived. Some "small" collapses in the vault, but the main vault resisted. And the great organ (8000 pipes made from lead & tin) was preserved, not only from the fire, but from the water hoses (located under the Northern rose window, largely watered by the firemen).

The main Christian relics ("Crown of thorns" of Jesus, a nail from the "Holy Cross" and a small part of this cross, the tunic of the king Saint Louis) were first taken away, but a statue (a coq) containing a small chunk of the "Crown of thorns", a relic from Saint-Denis and another from Sainte-Geneviève (patroness of Lutetia/Paris) were destroyed, because located at the tip of the spire. Other (minor) relics and some precious liturgical items seem to be considered as "missing", while the Treasury of Notre-Dame remains intact.

A precise inventory (about artefacts and about the building itself) will be possible in the next days, but if the main stucture of the cathedral is still present, it's difficult to know its real state. When stones reach a high temperature, and after a thermal shock with cold water (pumped directly from the Seine River), some serious investigations about the materials are necessary. And a large amount of humidity needs now to be drained.

750 million Euros seems bo be collected today : Pinault & "Total", but also Françoise Bettencourt & "L’Oréal" (200 million), Bernard Arnault and "LVMH" (same amount), French banks ... Outside France : Tim Cook & "Apple".

But a national contribution is about to be organized, without any speculation objective. Because the readiness of the "big" French firms for giving much money is hiding the possibility for them to gain tax credits. A well aimed charity !

So some recent informations, as requested by Commander Wallace.
Cheers.


As Catfish said, thanks for the Information, dgn. The loses were not something we wanted to hear but as em2nought said, the damage to the structure itself seems relatively light. The loss in paintings is something else. They were irreplaceable. You had also mentioned the 16 copper statues around the spire had already been removed.

I know those here in the U.S feel a great sense of loss for the fire at Notre Dame and I'm sure all of Europe, if not the world feels much the same way.

As Neal said, With the saving of relics, Notre Dame Cathedral should be able to be restored to it's former splendor. A comment was made that not enough wood exists in France to rebuild the roof. Certainly, wood can be obtained from other sources or as Skybird had said, other materials can be sourced to complete the new roof. Perhaps solar panels to generate electricity to aid in the cooling and heating could be used while still maintaining the nuance and feeling of the Cathedral.

Please keep us up to date on what's happening at Notre Dame, dgn. The Cathedral is not only a national treasure to France, but one felt worldwide. We all care about it's restoration and the loss suffered by France itself.


Keep your head up. Better days are ahead. :Kaleun_Salute:

[Eichhörnchen]

It will still be there, that's the important thing... so glad about that

And here in the UK it was the only thing that seemed to stop us rankling over Brexit, for 24 hours at least

[mapuc]

Even though it haven't occurred yet, it will only be a matter of time.

People who will do anything to gain benefits of this fire.

From what I understand there are x billions of dollars collected to rebuild Notre Dame.

From my knowledge in psychology and history I know there will be people who will do anything to gain benefits from this.

Of course a constructor shall have money for the job they do

but there will be some who will take a lot more for their job, a lot more than what it really cost.

Sorry for this negative hick-up.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Suspicious already with the first fire alarm sounding and the workers looked around for 23 mintues reporting that they saw no fire and then the second alarm went off ...

Doesn't sound like the workmen are responcible.

[em2nought]

"How Notre Dame Could Be Rebuilt With The Help Of Assassin’s Creed: Unity"

https://www.unilad.co.uk/gaming/how-notre-dame-could-be-rebuilt-with-the-help-of-assassins-creed-unity/?source=gamingbible

[vienna]

Suspicious already with the first fire alarm sounding and the workers looked around for 23 mintues reporting that they saw no fire and then the second alarm went off ...

Doesn't sound like the workmen are responcible.


Not really all that suspicious; on a building of that size, an alarm might sound due to whatever conditions sensors were monitoring without any outward signs of the source; I have seen, and been in, high rises where an alarm has sounded without any visible smoke or flames and the source was not discovered until after the buildings were evacuated and the firefighters arrived to investigate...











<O>

[Dowly]

"How Notre Dame Could Be Rebuilt With The Help Of Assassin’s Creed: Unity"

https://www.unilad.co.uk/gaming/how-notre-dame-could-be-rebuilt-with-the-help-of-assassins-creed-unity/?source=gamingbible


There already exists detailed 3d scans of the building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAi29udFMKw

[em2nought]

Suspicious already with the first fire alarm sounding and the workers looked around for 23 mintues reporting that they saw no fire and then the second alarm went off ...

Doesn't sound like the workmen are responcible.


Uh oh, you're insinuating that which is NOT allowed to be insinuated in our "woke" society. :timeout: How dare you? :03:

[Mr Quatro]

https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/17/notre-dame-fire-apple-ubisoft-assassins-creed-unity/

Ubisoft donates $564,000 to the ND fire/restore fund ...

Hey! That's fifty of my dollars UBI

[Torvald Von Mansee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE

[em2nought]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adgx9wt63NY

[Jimbuna]

It might seem a little churlish to criticise the International Olympic Committee for a charitable act, that is donating €500,000 (£432,000) to help rebuild the Notre-Dame. The sight of the famous cathedral ablaze was deeply affecting, not just for Catholics but anyone with a respect for its cultural, historical and religious significance, as was the prediction that it could cost an eye watering $3.3bn (£2.5bn) to restore it to full health.

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-iocs-notre-dame-donation-was-opportunistic-grandstanding-11700443

[Mr Quatro]

Shoot for that kind of money leave it the way it is and spend the money on all of those immigrants from North Africa to have a place to live :yep:

[_dgn_]

After the drama ...

Some goods news : the famous bonze statue (a coq) containing a small chunk of the "Crown of Thorns" of Jesus, a relic from Saint-Denis (first bishop of Lutetia/Paris) and another from Sainte-Geneviève (patroness of Lutetia/Paris) was found intact (but a little dented) in the ruins of Notre-Dame, in spite of its fall from the top of the spire (96 m), but beyond flames. Everybody can give an adapted explanation to this particular event ...

Another important information : none of the large and old paintings ("Mays") was destroyed, in contradiction with the initial news. But some restoration is needed, because of the soot traces (from the fire) and humidity (from the water used while fighting fire).

Major bad new : all the vault is broken down (between the bell-towers and the chorus) ...

The BSPP (Brigade des Sapeurs Pompiers de Paris or Paris sapper firemen Brigade) realized a remarkable work. Their job is generally to save lifes, not goods, but it wasn't the case this time. Their chief, Major General Jean-Claude Gallet, was quickly present on the place : he asked volunteers in order to save the major religious and cultural artefacts of Notre-Dame, and naturally the "Blessed Sacrament" (Notre-Dame is essentially a religious building, even if it's often only considered as a touristical place). This team wad leed by the chaplain of the BSPP. For their protection, a "safe" corridor was organised from the entry (under the bell-towers) to the chorus, thus on the entire length of the cathedral, and thus under the "blazing inferno" for this particular operation. In the same spirit, other volunteers (from the officers, NCOs and sappers of the BSPP) were asked for entering the both towers for saving them while fighting fire from the top of them. Cordial thanks for them.

Much time is now needed for knowing the precise state of the stones of Notre-Dame, an essential stage before the (possible) reconstruction.

Cheers.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for the update :up:

[Eichhörnchen]

Thank you, _dgn_ :salute:

[fireftr18]

Good update. Thanks dgn.
:Kaleun_Salute:

[Eisenwurst]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9j1ajachZc

A tourist puts his camera to good use.

I found this quite moving.