True Life Navigational Maps

[hunter301]

Are there any mods that will show you the same navigational charts that the sub captains used. Here's an original 1939 Japanese navigational map of Hawaii.
I'm looking for something that will show actual depths of the waters your in.
A lot of the close inshore sneak and peak missions required knowing how deep the water was around you without always doing a sounding that will give you away if your trying to stay quiet and hide.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/1939_Japanese_World_War_II_Chart_or_Map_of_Hawaii_-_Geographicus_-_Hawaii-japanese-1939.jpg/800px-1939_Japanese_World_War_II_Chart_or_Map_of_Hawaii_-_Geographicus_-_Hawaii-japanese-1939.jpg

See link for full size and different size maps:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1939_Japanese_World_War_II_Chart_or_Map_of_Ha waii_-_Geographicus_-_Hawaii-japanese-1939.jpg

[hunter301]

wow!!
95 views and no comments.
Am I missing something. Does nobody else think this is a good idea?
Or has it already been discussed?
Did a search but came up with nothing.

[Revus]

So, I haven’t seen any mods that do this automatically (in fact I have only seen map mods that eliminate all depth references like different shades of blue).
But I started searching the web for nautical charts for specific bodies of water and Alt+Tab to them during game to somewhat plan for my patrols. Helped out a lot in the mostly shallow Yellow Sea.

[Aktungbby]

Revus!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Sniper297]

To answer the question, no, I personally haven't seen any mods like that. Probably the reason you didn't get any answers, you wouldn't get anything out of 152,287 members saying "nope".

Quick check of the TGA and DDS files I can't find the actual chart used in game, but personally I never felt the need for actual depth charts - in real life anyone in range with a hydrophone could hear a sonar ping, but in my experience destroyers in the game either can't or won't hear it. I've tried closing on a destroyer from the side, hammering away with active sonar at it between 1000 and 2000 yards, no reaction. After reading this I fired up the game, hunted up a convoy, and closed from 3000 yards to 500 yards of the wing escort while steadily hitting the depth sounding button, ping ping ping ping no reaction from the destroyer.

My conclusion is in real life you would need a depth chart, in the game you don't.

[hunter301]

I fired up the game, hunted up a convoy, and closed from 3000 yards to 500 yards of the wing escort while steadily hitting the depth sounding button, ping ping ping ping no reaction from the destroyer.

My conclusion is in real life you would need a depth chart, in the game you don't.

As long as they can't hear it in the game than that solves my problem. Up until now I have been leery about sending out a ping to the ocean bottom while in the vicinity of any warships. Nothing worse than doing a crash dive and slamming into the seabed at 200 feet. But hey if works than no need.

I started searching the web for nautical charts for specific bodies of water and Alt+Tab to them during game to somewhat plan for my patrols. Helped out a lot in the mostly shallow Yellow Sea.
I do however like the idea of ALT+TAB and looking at a true life nautical chart of the area I'm in and then do some sounding and see how accurate the game is.

[hunter301]

So, I haven’t seen any mods that do this automatically (in fact I have only seen map mods that eliminate all depth references like different shades of blue).
But I started searching the web for nautical charts for specific bodies of water and Alt+Tab to them during game to somewhat plan for my patrols. Helped out a lot in the mostly shallow Yellow Sea.

Can you post the link to some of these sites?
So far I can only find the Hawaiian Islands and Okinawa with depth readings.

[KaleunMarco]

Can you post the link to some of these sites?
So far I can only find the Hawaiian Islands and Okinawa with depth readings.
good point, hunter.
there was a general lack of reliable sea charts during the war.
if you review clay blair's silent victory or any authoritative account of naval operation you will read that fact time and again. even JFK makes reference to lack of reliable charts in PT109.
some mods have maps available during play...they are activated by using the radio/comm gear. FOTRS Ultimate is one mega-mod that uses them and i cannot remember the others.
so, it is possible to engineer charts into SH4. you have to acquire the charts and put them into the correct file format (tga, i believe) and then create a mod that activates them within the SH4 file structure. piece of cake, eh?

[Fifi]

good point, hunter.
there was a general lack of reliable sea charts during the war.
if you review clay blair's silent victory or any authoritative account of naval operation you will read that fact time and again. even JFK makes reference to lack of reliable charts in PT109.
some mods have maps available during play...they are activated by using the radio/comm gear. FOTRS Ultimate is one mega-mod that uses them and i cannot remember the others.
so, it is possible to engineer charts into SH4. you have to acquire the charts and put them into the correct file format (tga, i believe) and then create a mod that activates them within the SH4 file structure. piece of cake, eh?

If talking about convoys route map, it’s avalaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts :salute:

[KaleunMarco]

If talking about convoys route map, it’s availaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts :salute:
yep, that is to what i am referring.
a graphic is a graphic.

if you want a sea chart instead of convoy map, acquire the chart and then open a conversation with the modder to see if it can be included in the mega-mod.

[Sniper297]

TGA or DDS, most of the main texture files use the DDS format. No idea where the texture is for the actual in-game map.

For trying to navigate using 200 year old Dutch charts based on some weird 14 1/2 inches to the foot unit, I read a hilarious description by an S-boat captain - Pigboat 39? Can't remember, anyway they ran aground in poorly charted waters at high tide, worked their butts off trying various things to lighten ship, eventually had to burn her where she was.

I read some descriptions of navigating shoal waters in a couple of books about detecting mines with the new FM sonar (late war), common precaution was flooding down a few feet so if you did run aground all you had to do was blow ballast and back away.

[hunter301]

If talking about convoys route map, it’s avalaible in TMO and Ralles also.
Using the radio button.
Would be cool to get others charts :salute:

No...I was actually referring to navigational charts of all the areas we find ourselves in.
Every time I jump into a single play mission the first thing I'm wondering is.."OK how deep is the bottom here so I don't slam into the bottom in them middle of a crash dive?"
Up until this thread I always thought doing a sounding for depth would give away my position when close to a convoy and escorts.
Would still be some nice realism though when looking over charts to see actual depths of area.
Didn't realize how sketchy charts where for this area at the outbreak of WW2.
Thought with all the trade in the 1700s and with the influx of steamships up and down the China coast line there would have been a lot more.

[Sailor Steve]

A part of the problem is that even if you had such a mod you still wouldn't know how deep the water is because the game doesn't have the actual water depths.


Side-note: Any fan will know that your second quote wasn't said first by you, but by Jayne Cobb on Firefly.

[hunter301]

A part of the problem is that even if you had such a mod you still wouldn't know how deep the water is because the game doesn't have the actual water depths.


If the game doesn't have the actual water depth then why does it tell you the depth under keel when asked?
I know anything over a 1000 feet is just stated so but whenever your in the shallows the game gives you the depth when asked.

[Sniper297]

What he means is the actual depth in the real world and the depth in the game might or might not be the same in any given area. For example the west entrance to Kobe harbor in Osaka Bay might be 42 feet deep in the real world, but 60 feet in the game. The fathometer in the game gives you the distance from the keel to the bottom as they made it in the game, and if they tried to make the exact real world depths everywhere in the game they would still be programming it and might have it finished 200 years from now.

I suspect they made the destroyers ignore the fathometer ping because of necessity to use the fathometer, since you look at a chart that says 70 feet you have to subtract 15 to 17 feet on the surface or 50 to 66 feet submerged depending on what sub type and what depth you're running at - after all, the actual depth minus the keel depth is the issue, zero depth under keel is where you actually hit the bottom.

The charted depths in the real world weren't accurate in WW2 for the simple reason that until submarines came along anything over 100 fathoms was "who cares?" The fathometer was invented sometime around 1925, prior to that they used lead lines cast at intervals to chart depths, and extrapolated between casts.

Simplest way in the game is to take soundings any time you're not in dark blue water, sometimes if the depth is too shallow for evasion I just let those targets go and look for targets in deeper water.

He who chickens and runs away, lives to chicken another day. :up:

[hunter301]

I suspect they made the destroyers ignore the fathometer ping because of necessity to use the fathometer, since you look at a chart that says 70 feet you have to subtract 15 to 17 feet on the surface or 50 to 66 feet submerged depending on what sub type and what depth you're running at - after all, the actual depth minus the keel depth is the issue, zero depth under keel is where you actually hit the bottom.


Where does your depth gauge show relative to your sub?
From the water line or from the keel?
Is your depth gauge already calculated for your draft?

[Sniper297]

Yikes. Go to the control room view in the game, read the depth gauge where it says "SALT WATER DEPTH TO KEEL", then hover the mouse pointer over the button that says "DEPTH UNDER KEEL".

[Revus]

Hey fellas, Sorry it took so long to reply.

Heres a good one for the Yellow sea:
https://www.oceangrafix.com/chart/zoom?chart=94028

Parent site:
https://www.oceangrafix.com/chart/detail/94028-Yellow-Sea-including-the-East-China-Sea-and-Korea-Strait

Cool thing about the charts is how much you can zoom in. Ill have to do some testing to see how accurate the soundings are, as well as how they line up Long/Lat wise.


Update: some of the charts are not viewable online, need to be purchased. Many charts do work though

[Revus]

Even better:
https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/

Its an interactive bathymetric map. Happy hunting :Kaleun_Salute:

[hunter301]

Yikes. Go to the control room view in the game, read the depth gauge where it says "SALT WATER DEPTH TO KEEL", then hover the mouse pointer over the button that says "DEPTH UNDER KEEL".

Honestly I just noticed this. I don't typically do the stroll around the sub other than being on the bridge so I never noticed the depth under keel on the meter. And I guess constantly looking at the 3 big round dials always kept me from looking down and the smaller number below. Now that I know they're there I don't have to keep switching back and forth on the dials.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Although I think if I'm within 16-17 feet of the bottom I'm already in trouble...LOL.

[Sniper297]

Try going into the control room view while on the surface and look at the big depth gauges (the fine scale ones that go to 165 feet) and you'll see the depth varies around 15-17 feet, sometimes to 20-22 if the weather is rough. Just took a look at a pic of a real one, minimum number is 15 feet. Check the game; yep, same.

[Rockin Robbins]

The sub captains had crap for charts, often using 20 year old National Geographic map inserts to figure out where they were. Soundings? Forget it! What we have in the game is magnitudes better than what they were stuck with.