Blind escorts part duex.

[John Pancoast]

I was attacking a convoy in NYGM tonight and had a hard time believing the escorts hadn't seen me.
So to test, I went right at one escort. Pulled up right along side. Second time this has happened and the installation is 100% correct.
Could whatever file controls the escorts sensors or whatever get corrupted in game saves ? I have a few in this patrol. They load fine though and have all been done via the "SH3 save rules".

[Obltn Strand]

Sounds like early war behaviour. Are you sailing with type II? That canoe is almost invisible. Alertness is also an issue.

[John Pancoast]

Sounds like early war behaviour. Are you sailing with type II? That canoe is almost invisible. Alertness is also an issue.

I'm in a VII and like I said, I literally pulled up along side of the escort with no reaction from it. I need to edit my original post to make that clear.

[John Pancoast]

Loaded up the Russian convoy single mission in Gwx. "Vanilla" gwx; no other mods installed.
I was able to pull up alongside the lead escort in the mission, also with no reaction.
What is going on ?!?! Maybe something to do with night scenarios, the NYGM convoy above was at night too, as in testing day time single missions the escorts act as they should.
Shouldn't be able to pull alongside an escort at any time though of course.

[John Pancoast]

Just did the Scapa Flow mission in RuB 1.45, GWX 3, and NYGM.

RuB - escort attacked me a few hundred yards from it.
GWX - escort attacked me *after* I had rammed it.
NYGM - escort never attacked, even though I rammed it. No damage to my boat either.

Very strange stuff; RuB had the best escort response.

[Obltn Strand]

Can't say about other mods than NYGM but something is definetly wrong. Six things affect detection. Light level, sea state, boat aspect and speed, experience of escort and it's alertness. NYGM manual should contain some numbers.

My experience with NYGM has taught me to keep distance to warships. They eventually get me during -42:hmmm:

[ThePrody]

something is not right, nygm escorts are quite nasty , what's your mod list>?

[bstanko6]

Yeah you have a bad installation or something is corrupt. I don't have that issue. It's not a neutral convoy is it?

If not, then rediwnload the NYGM and try again that is wrong.

[bstanko6]

To add you will find very few people with your problem. Few threads because NYGM prides itself on tough escorts. So if you downloaded everything right, then you have a bad file.

[John Pancoast]

Here's the lists.

NYGM exactly as Stiebler has listed here:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2592757&postcount=1533

from this thread page. I asked him because I wanted to be sure I had it right.http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=139231&page=103

The Hsie and Stiebler patches were done per instructions and as you probably know, they're much easier to "get ready" for NYGM.

GWX: Just 3.0 over stock 1.4 As said, GWX escorts had problems too.

RuB: Just it over stock 1.4.

[bstanko6]

I went to the download site. The following is what the site shows. Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 are the main mod. All others are optional. Did you install with JSGME in order 1 2 3 and 4? Did you allow for overwriting when the prompts told you? If yes, I have no other reason why you are having theses problems except a bad download.

1. NYGM_Tonnage_War_V2.5_Full_Version.7z (Essential, 322 MBytes)
2. NYGM3_New.7z (Essential, 102 MBytes)
3. NYGM3_6F.7z (Essential, 58 MBytes)
4. NYGM_2017A.7z (Essential, 14 MBytes)
5. IABLShipsforNYGM_New_Thomsen.7z (Optional, 14 MBytes. UPDATED VERSION March 2017 for NYGM_2017A.)
6. 3rd Flotilla Mod.7z (Optional, 60 KBytes)
7. SH3_Commander_Updates_for_NYGM.7z (Optional, 0.07 MByte)
8. MFM-Interim-Beta_NYGM.7z (Optional, 35 KBytes)
9. Stiebler4C_V16B1.7z (Optional, an upgrade of the 3A variant but more complex to install; 22 MBytes; includes many new turms for radar.)
10. EnvSimAct_10.7z (Optional, 5 KBytes)
11. NYGM_HiRes_Submarines_3_6F.7z (Optional, 104 MBytes - please observe large size to download)
12. WYGM.7z (Optional, 35 MBytes)
13. Hsie/Stiebler Options Selector (Optional, 157Kbytes)

[John Pancoast]

To add you will find very few people with your problem. Few threads because NYGM prides itself on tough escorts. So if you downloaded everything right, then you have a bad file.

That's what I'm thinking too (bad file). Downloaded everything from Stiebler's sig link to the NYGM page here.

[bstanko6]

No you are missing number 4!!!

[John Pancoast]

I went to the download site. The following is what the site shows. Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 are the main mod. All others are optional. Did you install with JSGME in order 1 2 3 and 4? Did you allow for overwriting when the prompts told you? If yes, I have no other reason why you are having theses problems except a bad download.

1. NYGM_Tonnage_War_V2.5_Full_Version.7z (Essential, 322 MBytes)
2. NYGM3_New.7z (Essential, 102 MBytes)
3. NYGM3_6F.7z (Essential, 58 MBytes)
4. NYGM_2017A.7z (Essential, 14 MBytes)
5. IABLShipsforNYGM_New_Thomsen.7z (Optional, 14 MBytes. UPDATED VERSION March 2017 for NYGM_2017A.)
6. 3rd Flotilla Mod.7z (Optional, 60 KBytes)
7. SH3_Commander_Updates_for_NYGM.7z (Optional, 0.07 MByte)
8. MFM-Interim-Beta_NYGM.7z (Optional, 35 KBytes)
9. Stiebler4C_V16B1.7z (Optional, an upgrade of the 3A variant but more complex to install; 22 MBytes; includes many new turms for radar.)
10. EnvSimAct_10.7z (Optional, 5 KBytes)
11. NYGM_HiRes_Submarines_3_6F.7z (Optional, 104 MBytes - please observe large size to download)
12. WYGM.7z (Optional, 35 MBytes)
13. Hsie/Stiebler Options Selector (Optional, 157Kbytes)

Yes, installed everything in order from this site, allowed overwriting, etc.

[bstanko6]

According to the threads you just posted you are missing that

NYGM 2017a

[John Pancoast]

No you are missing number 4!!!

No, I have it installed. Just called it 2017 in my post. Thanks though.

[John Pancoast]

Think I'll do a test with strictly the base NYGM. If that's ok, then it would be something wrong in my Hsie/Stiebler patches.

[bstanko6]

I was reading a thread of yours but I did not see it. Something is out of place. I just can't see it. Is your h.sie working good? Did you test it?

[John Pancoast]

I was reading a thread of yours but I did not see it. Something is out of place. I just can't see it. Is your h.sie working good? Did you test it?

Yes, tested both it and Stiebler's. All added functions (O2, wolfpack, abandon ship, new patrol grid, weather meter, etc) are working as they should.

[John Pancoast]

bstanko, maybe if you have the chance, try the Scapa Flow mission in NYGM.

Go SW down the coast until you run across that escort by itself. I've been using it in the Scapa tests I mention, going at it at flank speed for a bow wave effect.
Clear weather in all the tests.

[John Pancoast]

Same thing with the four file base NYGM/Scapa Flow. I'm going to do a re-install and test again.

[John Pancoast]

Just did Scapa with stock 1.4 version just to make sure that was ok. No problem; escort attacked me from several hundred meters away.

[Obltn Strand]

https://i.imgur.com/7qs0pFk.jpg

That's how close you can get without detection. It's late -40 and I'am sailing with type II D...

[John Pancoast]

https://i.imgur.com/7qs0pFk.jpg

That's how close you can get without detection. It's late -40 and I'am sailing with type II D...

Just shows black screen for me, but thanks. Regardless, there is no way I should be able to charge at flank speed, pull up a few feet away alongside, and/or hit an escort at any time of the war in clear weather with no reaction beforehand from it.

[John Pancoast]

More Scapa tests:

- re-installed the four base NYGM files. Escort attacked me several hundred meters away. Good.

-applied Hsie patch to the sh3.exe. Only options NOT selected in the options selector were Realistic repair, the two torpedo reloading ones, bad weather, diesel engine, and war news. Also wrapped the O2 folder into the supplement folder (just copy the gui, etc. section from the 02 folder into the data section in the supplement folder).
Moved the supplement folder with the patched .exe into my NYGM mods folder and activated it via JSGME.
Back to square one; escort is blind again, able to run into it at flank speed, no sub damage, etc.

Strange. I downloaded Hsie's patch kit from his media files page. Doing another re-install.

[Obltn Strand]

Just shows black screen for me, but thanks. Regardless, there is no way I should be able to charge at flank speed, pull up a few feet away alongside, and/or hit an escort at any time of the war in clear weather with no reaction beforehand from it. Bad pic but add brightness and enlarge.

[bstanko6]

Hold on your in Scapa?!?!!! Yeah they are blind. You can attack in Scapa all day. Have come across escorts in transit? Convoys in the middle of the Atlantic?

In SH5 the Scapa Flow mission is the same! The escorts are dead in water! Supposed to be.

[John Pancoast]

Hold on your in Scapa?!?!!! Yeah they are blind. You can attack in Scapa all day. Have come across escorts in transit? Convoys in the middle of the Atlantic?

In SH5 the Scapa Flow mission is the same! The escorts are dead in water! Supposed to be.

Yeah, the original scenario in this thread was via a convoy in the Atlantic at night.
Been using the Scapa scenario for testing because it's quick to get to and also at night.
And like I mentioned, wouldn't think I'd be able to approach at flank and ra a destroyer with no reaction at all from it no matter what, and the stock and RuB installs get reactions from it.
I've done two more complete NYGM re-installs with the four base files; same thing both times, no reaction from the destroyer, etc.
Something is really strange, just wish I could figure out what it is.

[ThePrody]

try these h.sie and stiebler mods :


https://www.sendspace.com/file/38leh2

[John Pancoast]

try these h.sie and stiebler mods :


https://www.sendspace.com/file/38leh2

Thanks but I got Hsie's from his file site, and Stiebler's from here.

[John Pancoast]

Here's a REALLY interesting development. So I figured I do Scapa tests with each of the four base NYGM files one at a time.
Install 2.5, same results. Able to sail up to the destroyer and give it a bronx cheer.
So I figure, try NYGM 2.0.
Success !! Multiple tests, the destroyer engages me at 3-4000. That's more like it.
Makes me wonder if something is wrong with my 2.5 file, but I got it from here at Subsim.

[ThePrody]

i know you have them, i was thinking they are the fault


i just tried the Scapa mission two times in a row and the enemy patrol boats are very quick to spot me if i'm surfaced , don't know what is happening with your 2.5 files, it looks like their visual sensors may be off .

[John Pancoast]

i know you have them, i was thinking they are the fault


i just tried the Scapa mission two times in a row and the enemy patrol boats are very quick to spot me if i'm surfaced , don't know what is happening with your 2.5 files, it looks like their visual sensors may be off .

I agree; something seems fubared in it. Thanks for the Scapa info.

[John Pancoast]

I've come to the conclusion that the sensors in the stock game are whacked too.
Without binos I can clearly see the destroyer's bow wake and/or camo paint long, long before it reacts. If I can see it's, it should see mine when I'm at flank speed going directly at it, regardless of crew rating. "Sorry sir, even though it's my job and I have incredible optics, I didn't see that sub charging at us until it was only 800 meters away"

Especially in the clear weather/calm seas of the Scapa mission. Maybe the mission is tweaked to make it easy, don't know.
But the distances aren't much different in stock or any mod, this mission or in mod campaign convoy.
If nothing else, it can lead to very ahistorical and unrealistic tactics. Not many u-boat commanders would risk staying on the surface/or in the area with an escort in easy visual sight at close range when one shell from a destroyer can ruin their day, regardless of whether the destroyer saw it or not.
As is, a player can do that in stock, rub, gwx, and nygm. Or at least I can on my installs.

[bstanko6]

John one final effort. Do you have MEP5? The environment mod? PM me!

[John Pancoast]

John one final effort. Do you have MEP5? The environment mod? PM me!

Literally just found that thread and going to give it a try today, thanks ! I was going to try MEP 6, but would you advise ver 5 instead ? pm sent.

[Obltn Strand]

+1 för MEP 5

[bstanko6]

It has a sensor mod for NYGM. I think this will fix your issue!

[John Pancoast]

It has a sensor mod for NYGM. I think this will fix your issue!

Got your pm, I'll give it a try. Really appreciate the advice !

[John Pancoast]

Fwiw, here's what I was talking about. Just did these shots today. All NYGM files are from subsim.com, via Stiebler's signature link. Tried multiple re-downloads, installs, etc.



I don't know what's going on. Only NYGM seems to consistently do it, and I've even increased the AI visual range in AI_Sensors.dat slightly to try to get them to see me, no effect. NYGM 2.0 doesn't have this problem, I know that was changed in 2.1.
GWX never acts this way, Stock sometimes.

One thing I noticed was that the max range in the AI visual node in this file was only 11k. Is this what anyone else's file shows too ?


Scapa Flow mission. Same thing happens with other AI escorts in the mission.


Strange stuff. Don't know if it's visible in this photo, but my sub is visible to the eye at about eleven o'clock off the escort stern. Slight right of the star on the horizon surface. Black dot.
If I can see it this way, one would think the escort should too.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/fdIUgY.png (https://imageshack.com/i/plfdIUgYp)




This one shows how close I got. No reaction ever from the escort, including when I rammed it later (sunk the sub).
Going flank speed the entire time. Using only the NYGM base files with the NYGM IABL ships mod.
Anyway, not trying to bash anyone's work. Just trying to figure it out.





https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/j0TyLg.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pmj0TyLgp)