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Eichhörnchen
02-23-19, 01:48 PM
When I was a teenaged Army Cadet my favourite subject was always Camouflage and Concealment. I remember one evening we were all sat a few yards from the edge of a wood and asked just what we could see. Nothing but trees, bushes and grass, I thought. Then a whistle was blown and the wood suddenly came alive as a dozen camouflaged guys stood up and walked out onto the grass... I was very impressed


Now, we have been visited often of late by a black and white cat who regularly kills large numbers of birds in our garden. But he is so easy to see... often I've watched him steal down the edge of the field opposite our kitchen, yet the birds don't seem to see him coming... why? The other day I looked out the window and saw him away across the field, but then realised that it wasn't him at all but a magpie. Could it be, I thought, that the birds (all busy at the feeders) sometimes make the same mistake? Exponents of the art of camouflage know that it's not always a matter of not being seen, but instead being seen as something else


I've always meant to read the biography of Jasper Maskelyne, the magician employed during WW2 to help fool the Germans using deception and disguise rather than bland obfuscation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Maskelyne

Dazzle camouflage of warships and the geometric 'boxkite' patterns painted on WW1 aircraft are also examples of 'fooling' the enemy and I'd like to hear more thoughts and stories about camouflage & concealment here... to me it's such an amazing and fascinating science

Buddahaid
02-23-19, 02:00 PM
When I was a teenaged Army Cadet my favourite subject was always Camouflage and Concealment. I remember one evening we were all sat a few yards from the edge of a wood and asked just what we could see. Nothing but trees, bushes and grass, I thought. Then a whistle was blown and the wood suddenly came alive as a dozen camouflaged guys stood up and walked out onto the grass... I was very impressed


Now, we have been visited often of late by a black and white cat who regularly kills large numbers of birds in our garden. But he is so easy to see... often I've watched him steal down the edge of the field opposite our kitchen, yet the birds don't seem to see him coming... why? The other day I looked out the window and saw him away across the field, but then realised that it wasn't him at all but a magpie. Could it be, I thought, that the birds (all busy at the feeders) sometimes make the same mistake? Exponents of the art of camouflage know that it's not always a matter of not being seen, but instead being seen as something else


I've always meant to read the biography of Jasper Maskelyne, the magician employed during WW2 to help fool the Germans using deception and disguise rather than bland obfuscation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Maskelyne

Dazzle camouflage of warships and the geometric 'boxkite' patterns painted on WW1 aircraft are also examples of 'fooling' the enemy and I'd like to hear more thoughts and stories about camouflage & concealment here... to me it's such an amazing and fascinating science

Do birds see in color or B & W?

Eichhörnchen
02-23-19, 02:24 PM
A good point, but surely it would make no difference in such a case? It would just be an issue of tone

Buddahaid
02-23-19, 02:29 PM
Or keyed to motion. I think cats detect motion.

Eichhörnchen
02-23-19, 03:02 PM
They certainly do, but I'm more concerned with what the birds detect

Black = total absence of colour; white = 100% presence/spectrum of colour, so even if birds do see in black & white... especially if birds see in black & white... they perhaps think it is a magpie until it's too late!

vienna
02-23-19, 03:50 PM
Several years ago, I was walking down my block and saw a crow just standing in the middle of the street; there was no immediate danger since our street is very lightly traveled. Then I noticed, behind a tree, a cat stalking the apparently oblivious crow. The cat was doing the usual cat hunting moves, hunkering down low, creeping forward a few steps, stopping, and then creeping even closer. The cat got about two or three feet away behind the crow when, all of a sudden, the crow wheeled around, spreading its wing out fully and emitting the loudest, most chilling caw I ever heard. The cat was frozen for a split second, the leapt up, in fright, about two or so feet in the air looking like one of those cartoon cats, landed back down and ran away faster than I'd ever seen a cat run...

The crow just ruffled its wings and feathers a bit, turned back around, and resumed just standing there, in the middle of the street...









<O>

Eichhörnchen
02-23-19, 04:05 PM
That story reminds me... walking home with a mate from the pub one night I perceived a white, black-spotted soccer ball in the middle of the road ahead. Of course I set off and ran towards it (or what passed for running in my state) but just before I delivered the goal-scoring kick my friend yelled "It's a cat!" whereupon I deftly hopped over the curled slumbering moggy

Now his camouflage was very convincing :haha:

Sean C
02-24-19, 12:48 AM
Maybe the birds are drunk, too? :03:

Rockstar
02-24-19, 08:30 AM
The bird most likely sees the cat. But I wonder if it recognizes a slow moving grounded object like a cat as a threat.

Squirrels on the other hand when they see a cat will alert the entire neighborhood to its presence with a cacophony of sound.

MaDef
02-24-19, 10:39 AM
Do birds see in color or B & W?Most see in color, with some species seeing into the ultra-violet range of colors.

Buddahaid
02-24-19, 11:12 AM
Thanks, but now I'm thinking.....
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ovimx

Eichhörnchen
02-24-19, 01:50 PM
We used to often go out for walks at dusk along our road in the warm months... very rural, hardly any traffic back then... and our 3 cats usually came with us. The dark tabby cat stood out clearly against the road in the failing light, whereas the two gingers grew steadily harder to see and you might easily trip over them.

The colour of objects rapidly disappears as darkness falls, our eyes' receptors dependent upon reflected light to see their colours. All we can make out in the poor light are tones... light and dark... so it doesn't matter at all what colour something is at night, it will be invisible unless you either shine a light on it, or it moves in front of something of a highly contrasting tone. Thus the ginger cats would disappear against the grey road

This is why I've never understood why the RAF painted its night fighters and bombers black (Bomber Command operated mostly by night) for surely nothing could be guaranteed to stand out more against the clouds than a black aircraft. The Germans, on the other hand, were far more canny... painting their nightfighters in an overall dapple of mid and light greys. I think the RAF would've been better painting their night-flying planes in the medium grey-blue used on photo recon aircraft... or even simply leaving them in day camouflage

ExFishermanBob
02-25-19, 06:48 AM
My favourite 'camouflage' (although misdirection might be better) is the Startfish Decoy system. Look it up. Used to deflect from towns and airfields.

Eichhörnchen
02-25-19, 04:00 PM
^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_site

Eichhörnchen
02-25-19, 04:02 PM
https://i.imgur.com/FIcOj4Q.jpg

Published by John Murray

ISBN 0-7195-5605-8

vienna
02-25-19, 05:51 PM
The bird most likely sees the cat. But I wonder if it recognizes a slow moving grounded object like a cat as a threat.

Squirrels on the other hand when they see a cat will alert the entire neighborhood to its presence with a cacophony of sound.


There was a young lady in my complex who walked her dog every day past a tree at the end of the block; the dog would rush up to the base of the tree and growl and woof a bit; a squirrel then would climb down the tree trunk and stop just beyond the reach of the dog; the two of them would taunt each other, the dog woofing at the squirrel, the squirrel chattering at the dog; this would go on for a bit until the young lady would pull on the leash and start to walk away; they did this every time I saw them; the young lady has moved away (shame, she was very easy on the eyes), but the squirrel still occasionally wanders down the tree trunk as if looking for the dog to come back...










<O>

fireftr18
02-25-19, 10:03 PM
Story years ago from a local medical helicopter pilot. They were flying for a patient from the south-eastern part of Kentucky. The pilot received a radio message that B-52's were flying maneuvers in the area. He said he was looking around and couldn't see any. Then when he looked down, he saw something looking strange. He then realized it was one the airplanes. He said if he didn't know to look for them, he would not have seen it. At that time, B-52's were still painted in the camouflage pattern.

Eichhörnchen
02-26-19, 01:47 AM
At the beginning of WW2 the triumphant Luftwaffe's fighter aircraft were usually painted in various tones grey and grey-greens on their upper sides with just the apex of the fuselage spine darkened with these colours, which were sometimes drawn down the light blue fuselage sides in various light mottles. This camouflage was designed for combat in the higher atmosphere and over the sea.

Later, as their machines spent far more time on the ground because of logistical shortages and became subject to more frequent low-level attacks, they moved over to using browns and greens in their top camouflage (sometimes quite garish too) with solid colour now covering the fuselage sides and not just the spine

https://i.imgur.com/Xs8Buf7.jpg

Eichhörnchen
02-26-19, 01:52 PM
Read here the fascinating story of how the Peppered Moth actually evolved a dark form to survive predation in the increasingly grimy environment of the Industrial North of England

http://www.mothscount.org/text/63/peppered_moth_and_natural_selection.html

(But please note that the moth shown at the top right of this feature is not a Peppered Moth but a Magpie Moth :know:)

Below you can see the original Peppered Moth imago alongside its evolved melanistic form. Many other previously light-coloured moth species evolved these dark forms as acid rain steadily ate away the algae on trees, rendering their camouflage ineffective

https://i.imgur.com/MyujXgs.jpg

Eichhörnchen
02-27-19, 03:59 PM
https://i.imgur.com/OwCE14H.jpg

This British butterfly is a master of camouflage: not only is it almost invisible against the heathland where it lives, it also famously angles its wings upon landing so as to cast no shadow

http://www.habitas.org.uk/priority/species.asp?item=5582

Platapus
03-01-19, 07:45 PM
In one of my animal product catalogs I have shows an "anti-bird catching" collar for a cat. It consists of brightly colored panels and is designed to flair out.

Evidently this is better than any bells as the birds can react to the small movements of the bright colors easier and sooner.

The article pointed out that a bell on the collar may make the cat more vulnerable to predators as if the cat runs away, the bell rings, where when the cat is stalking a bird, the bell does not ring until it is too late.

Eichhörnchen
03-02-19, 05:22 AM
^ That's a very interesting aspect I hadn't thought about... where you are trying to counter the camouflage nature has bestowed on the cat

I'm trying now to think of other instances of this... it can't be compared to the wearing of day-glo armbands and suchlike by cyclists because with these you're not trying to counter a deliberate camouflage

Perhaps the painting of high-vis markings on the vehicles of, and the bright blue helmets of, UN personnel.... operating in a war zone strictly as non combatants, not to be targeted

Russian tanks in Berlin at the close of WW2 also commonly had large white crosses painted on their turret tops so that allied ground-attack planes could identify them more easily

Eichhörnchen
03-04-19, 04:31 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/techandscience/scientists-say-flies-dont-like-zebra-stripes/ar-BBUkREL

vienna
03-04-19, 09:11 PM
Squirrels, moths, cheese throwing, zebra hating flies...


You are, indeed, a very strange person... :03:


...don't change...









<O>

Catfish
03-05-19, 02:39 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/techandscience/scientists-say-flies-dont-like-zebra-stripes/ar-BBUkREL


Interesting, I did not hear it before.
But my wife did, she has been in Africa some time ago and it seems to have been well known by the folks there. Tsetse flies are a plague :hmmm:

Jimbuna
03-05-19, 06:16 AM
Currently being tested on race horses at a stable nearby my place of abode.

Eichhörnchen
03-05-19, 02:00 PM
Moira told me when I came across this story that they used to think the black & white stripes made them almost disappear in the veldt heat-haze... a good idea but perhaps now completely misplaced