NYers whine and Amazon cancels

[Onkel Neal]

Amazon was going to build a HQ in NY, until all the opponents bawled. They just lost a chance for 25,000 jobs, a chance for people to improve their job skills and get better jobs.

One of the reported complaints are the tax incentives (http://www.gothamgazette.com/state/8110-a-closer-look-at-the-tax-incentives-in-the-amazon-deal).

Correct me if I am wrong, please, but don't tax incentives simple reduce the tax burden on a company as long as they meet specified metrics?

I'm reading twitter comments where Joe Blow is rejoicing "Oh no. We won't be giving 4.6 billion dollars to Amazon. Whatever will we do."

And articles that characterize this as The Amazon deal is even worse than it looks and will cost NY more than it thinks (https://www.fastcompany.com/90269146/the-amazon-deal-is-even-worse-than-it-looks-and-will-cost-ny-more-than-it-thinks)

Are there actually subsidies where the money flows from NY to Amazon, net net?:hmmm: Was this deal structured so that Amazon paid $0 taxes and received 4.6 billion from the city/state? I kinda doubt that but that is the way it is being portrayed.

[Onkel Neal]

Follow up, as I read this,
http://www.gothamgazette.com/state/8110-a-closer-look-at-the-tax-incentives-in-the-amazon-deal

Another one of the governor’s defenses of the incentive package is that New York isn’t actually paying Amazon anything at all, but rather is letting the company pay slightly less in taxes than it would otherwise. In his “op-ed” published to the governor’s official website, Cuomo writes:

“Our proposal offered that, when and if those revenues are realized, the government would effectively reduce their $1 billion payment by about $100 million for a net to New York of approximately $900 million. New York doesn't give Amazon $100 million. Amazon gives New York $900 million.”

But, still, somehow the article quotes people who manage to twist this... It’s a rhetorical sleight of hand that doesn’t pass muster with any expert Gotham Gazette spoke to. “I mean, that's just fundamentally wrong because essentially all economists left, right, wherever agree that a tax abatement or tax credit is a form of expenditure by government and is rightly called a subsidy,” Kaehny said,

[em2nought]

Amazon might have interfered with those "unwilling to work" in New York City getting paid under the "green new deal". :har:

[u crank]

Have read arguments on both sides of this issue. Basically 25,000 jobs and all the economic spin off vs. giving the richest man in the world a tax break. Yea that's a tough one. Almost for certain Bezos will get what he wants somewhere else. Possibly in a low tax Red state where the social justice warrior tribe has less drag.

[Platapus]

I don't know why Amazon would even want to build their HQ2 in NYC. Too crowded.

[james_nix]

I have family on Long Island. The biggest concern for them was that the influx of Amazon workers would displace families that have lived there for generations by raising housing costs. Also local businesses would be forced out due to the higher costs and replaced by national chain brand business.

It happened famously in Brooklyn, but also Harlem, the lower East Side, lower Manhattan, etc.

[Mr Quatro]

I don't know why Amazon would even want to build their HQ2 in NYC. Too crowded.

I agree :up:
I know Long Island, from 20 years ago that is, and it's not a transportation hub with tunnels, bridges and tolls to pay, plus I think Amazon has other reasons that have not been revealed yet.

The other shoe has to drop before we know the truth :yep:

[Buddahaid]

I have family on Long Island. The biggest concern for them was that the influx of Amazon workers would displace families that have lived there for generations by raising housing costs. Also local businesses would be forced out due to the higher costs and replaced by national chain brand business.

It happened famously in Brooklyn, but also Harlem, the lower East Side, lower Manhattan, etc.

Well, well. Locally here in California SF bay area, I have to buy much of what I want through Amazon because it's not offered locally in any store, or they will say they can order it, but I can order it for less so why bother! Granted that what I want is likely not main stream anyway, but still....

[nikimcbee]

I suppose we have a similar problem in Ore-gone with intel. They pay very little in property taxes (screwing the schools out of A LOT of money), but Ore-gone heavily taxes income, so they love the high paying tech jobs.


Any time the progressives threaten to take away intel's tax breaks, intel says "okay, we'll just take our toys and go elsewhere." .....and the county and state do whatever the smurf intel wants. Why not call intel's bluff? They have 4 RnD fabs here, they ain't going nowhere. It would be too expensive for them to move, I don't see why the state is such a chicken when it comes to dealing with them?


That's what happened in Eugene with Hynix. The city/county fought them at every turn, so they packed up their toys and left. Not good for the economy when the largest private employer leaves. ....and you should have heard the local media howl! Oh, who will we tax now? The golden goose is gone and as far as I know, the factory building is still empty.




God forbid the tech industry ever left this area, we would be the West Virginia of the Pacific.


Don't worry, we can lean on the pot industry.:yeah:

[nikimcbee]

I have family on Long Island. The biggest concern for them was that the influx of Amazon workers would displace families that have lived there for generations by raising housing costs. Also local businesses would be forced out due to the higher costs and replaced by national chain brand business.

It happened famously in Brooklyn, but also Harlem, the lower East Side, lower Manhattan, etc.


Sounds like yousa guys live next door to Kali-fornia?

[nikimcbee]

Amazon might have interfered with those "unwilling to work" in New York City getting paid under the "green new deal". :har:




What really makes me laugh/pisses me off, is the fact that these "progressive" companies sure do love to weasle out of paying taxes that they push for. Come on, pay your fair share!

[Onkel Neal]

I don't know why Amazon would even want to build their HQ2 in NYC. Too crowded.

Prestige.

I say, build it in Ducanville, Texas. And help where help is needed.

[Platapus]

Prestige.

I say, build it in Ducanville, Texas. And help where help is needed.


Well, certainly, if one is not at all concerned with prestige I can understand the attraction of Texas.

(ducking)

:D:D:D

[Onkel Neal]

Haha, not a problem, when you're a Texan, prestige is out of the question.

[u crank]

A Larger-Than-Life Rebuke to AOC's Anti-Business Politics

http://i.imgur.com/KEsIZxr.jpg?4 (https://imgur.com/KEsIZxr)

The billboard’s theatrics are worthy of Broadway. But the underlying message is dead serious. The large-scale social programs promoted by politicians like Ocasio-Cortez come with a hefty price tag. New York’s notoriously unfriendly tax climate is tied to a mass-migration out of the Empire State, which also places below the national average in job growth. And this doesn’t just apply to the hinterlands of upstate New York. The five boroughs of New York City are experiencing an accelerating negative net migration.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/02/21/a_larger-than-life_rebuke_to_aocs_anti-business_politics_139534.html

[Mr Quatro]

Is it official now that Ocasio-Cortez is getting the blame for the Amazon plan to move on to another state than New York? My FB pages were full of these rumors, but I've learned not to quote FB :yep:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ocasio-cortez-fires-back-at-times-square-billboard-criticism-for-amazon-snub-sean-spicer-joins-mainstream-media-2019-02-21

Ocasio-Cortez fires back at ‘Thanks for Nothing, AOC!’ billboard: New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has responded to a billboard that says “Thanks for Nothing, AOC!” and blames her for Amazon.com Inc.’s AMZN, -0.81% decision to nix its plans to set up headquarters in New York City.

She blames billionaire's for advertising on Times Square that she is to blame.

[u crank]

Is it official now that Ocasio-Cortez is getting the blame for the Amazon plan to move on to another state than New York?

She is not entirely to blame. That's giving her way too much credit. But she certainly is on record as being against it and rejoiced when they pulled the plug. I wonder how many of her 3 million Twitter followers were eying one of those jobs.:O:

She blames billionaire's for advertising on Times Square that she is to blame.

In the world of the socialists all billionaires are suspect.:03: