The "Quit/Start/Load/Reload" Issue (FOTRSU)

[Front Runner]

For those interested, and, for those unfamiliar with this "issue," the "issue" is a failure to (serially) "re-load" a save game with Waypoints, Celestial Sphere, Navigation marks etc, accurate, correct and intact. I call it the "Quit/Start/Load/Re-load" test. The save games either "Pass" the test by Quitting the game, Starting the game, loading correctly and then re-loading correctly (Q/S/L/R) , or, "Fail" the test by Quitting the game, Starting the game, loading correctly once, but then failing to re-load correctly a second time (Q/S/L but NOT /R.) For example, waypoints missing, navigation marks missing, daylight when the Base time clock accurately indicates night time hours, etc.

My latest testing results reveal that it appears to only affect some versions of FOTRSUv* and only Campaign Careers starting Jan. 1, 1944 or later out of Pearl Harbor.

It is not a failure of the save game data. It is a failure to re-load the exact same data (a serial re-load) that was just previously correctly loaded.

I discovered this issue because I have a penchant for listening to Fred's Radio Stations while I am playing the game. While loading up a save game to start playing my session, the Radio came up already playing upon loading the game as it sometimes does. In times past, I could simply "re-load" that very same save game or a save game made just before (or after) with no problems. The "Radio already playing" bug is similar to the "Passing thermal layer" bug and sometimes requires a re-load of the save game file. When I re-loaded the save game, the Radio came up correctly, meaning that it was in the "Off" state, but, I had lost all of my navigation waypoints, and although I had saved at Sunset, the skies outside were now bright daylight with the Sun high in the sky, even though my Base time clock indicated it was "time" for sunset.

To discover this issue I had to be loading up a (FOTRSU) savegame from a Campaign Career, starting out of Pearl Harbor on Jan. 1, 1944 or later, and found it necessary to serially re-load an already successful (except for the Radio bug) save game. It helped that the savegame was made at Sunset, so after I had serially re-loaded the savegame, I went to the external view, and low and behold my beautiful sunset scenery was missing and it was broad daylight.

Many, many, many tests later and I believe that I have narrowed it down to "something" in the FOTRSU Campaign layer which affects only those Campaigns starting out of Pearl Harbor after Jan. 1, 1944. propbeanie is hard at work helping me find the culprit!

Anyone else who has experienced similar behavior and/or is simply interested in helping us track down this "bug" is more than welcome to chime in.

Thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

That's a weird one. No mod can mess with the game save routines as they are hardcoded in the .exe file. So when we find out what's working it's very doubtful whether we can do anything about it. At least the savegame routines aren't as bad as SHIII. But they can be wonky, for sure.

[gutted]

. At least the savegame routines aren't as bad as SHIII.

Aye, i could never get a modded SH3 to load a save game without crashing. I always had to play missions in one go.

[BigWalleye]

That's a weird one. No mod can mess with the game save routines as they are hardcoded in the .exe file. So when we find out what's working it's very doubtful whether we can do anything about it. At least the savegame routines aren't as bad as SHIII. But they can be wonky, for sure.

There is a well-known aphorism in software development circles: "The changes I made had absolutely nothing to do withe THAT function and couldn't have caused it to stop working.":)

[Front Runner]

That's a weird one. No mod can mess with the game save routines as they are hardcoded in the .exe file. So when we find out what's working it's very doubtful whether we can do anything about it. At least the savegame routines aren't as bad as SHIII. But they can be wonky, for sure.

It appears to NOT be a "Save" (write) issue as the "Saves" all work on the first loading. So, when the first load is made (data is read), the saved game state is fine. It is when that game is "re-loaded" (second, or "serial" data read) without first quitting and starting the game, whatever happens, the game state loses waypoints, navigation marks, and celestial sphere sync. Also it appears that the "sky" defaults to the same state it was in at 1300 hours on the first day of the Campaign after leaving the Captain's Office. The "1300 Daylight state" is consistent no matter what "time" the save game was made, Sunset, Midnight, Sunrise, Submerged.) When that happens, a "Quit/Start/Load" brings the game state back to where it was when you made the save game and you can continue playing "in sync" from there. Further, it only affects Jan 1, 1944 and later Campaign starts from Pearl Harbor.

[EDIT] If hardcoded, it would affect SH4 Stock, TMO, RFB, TMO/RSRD, TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP, etc. It doesn't.
Also, it doesn't affect FOTRSUv63. However, it does affect FOTRSUv71 and v80.

Propbeanie mentioned the simulated "International Date Line" as a possible culprit. The thing is that Midway Campaigns work OK and Midway is East of the IDL. So, IDK.

I'm wondering if there is a file in the "Documents/SH4/data/cfg" folder preventing the second load from reading into RAM correctly, in other words, portions of the RAM that have the correct information are being overwritten by Campaign start "default" information. No waypoints, no nav marks and 1300 Daylight sky. [EDIT] Perhaps "save.tmp" ?

[merc4ulfate]

For those interested, and, for those unfamiliar with this "issue," the "issue" is a failure to (serially) "re-load" a save game with Waypoints, Celestial Sphere, Navigation marks etc, accurate, correct and intact. I call it the "Quit/Start/Load/Re-load" test. The save games either "Pass" the test by Quitting the game, Starting the game, loading correctly and then re-loading correctly (Q/S/L/R) , or, "Fail" the test by Quitting the game, Starting the game, loading correctly once, but then failing to re-load correctly a second time (Q/S/L but NOT /R.) For example, waypoints missing, navigation marks missing, daylight when the Base time clock accurately indicates night time hours, etc.

My latest testing results reveal that it appears to only affect some versions of FOTRSUv* and only Campaign Careers starting Jan. 1, 1944 or later out of Pearl Harbor.

It is not a failure of the save game data. It is a failure to re-load the exact same data (a serial re-load) that was just previously correctly loaded.

I discovered this issue because I have a penchant for listening to Fred's Radio Stations while I am playing the game. While loading up a save game to start playing my session, the Radio came up already playing upon loading the game as it sometimes does. In times past, I could simply "re-load" that very same save game or a save game made just before (or after) with no problems. The "Radio already playing" bug is similar to the "Passing thermal layer" bug and sometimes requires a re-load of the save game file. When I re-loaded the save game, the Radio came up correctly, meaning that it was in the "Off" state, but, I had lost all of my navigation waypoints, and although I had saved at Sunset, the skies outside were now bright daylight with the Sun high in the sky, even though my Base time clock indicated it was "time" for sunset.

To discover this issue I had to be loading up a (FOTRSU) savegame from a Campaign Career, starting out of Pearl Harbor on Jan. 1, 1944 or later, and found it necessary to serially re-load an already successful (except for the Radio bug) save game. It helped that the savegame was made at Sunset, so after I had serially re-loaded the savegame, I went to the external view, and low and behold my beautiful sunset scenery was missing and it was broad daylight.

Many, many, many tests later and I believe that I have narrowed it down to "something" in the FOTRSU Campaign layer which affects only those Campaigns starting out of Pearl Harbor after Jan. 1, 1944. propbeanie is hard at work helping me find the culprit!

Anyone else who has experienced similar behavior and/or is simply interested in helping us track down this "bug" is more than welcome to chime in.

Thanks.

I stopped doing things like this a long time ago. I never create a save game. That is what docking is for.

[Front Runner]

Simply put, a career started out of Pearl Harbor in January of 1944 using SH4 WOTP (Stock) and FOTRSUv63 "DO NOT" exhibit the issue. Both career starts begin at 1400 hours outside the harbor.

A career started out of Pearl Harbor in January of 1944 using FOTRSUv71 and FOTRSUv80 "DO" exhibit the issue. Both career starts begin at 1300 hours outside the harbor.

The genesis of the problem seems to coincide with moving the Pearl Harbor career start time from 1400 to 1300.

[KaleunMarco]

Simply put, a career started out of Pearl Harbor in January of 1944 using SH4 WOTP (Stock) and FOTRSUv63 "DO NOT" exhibit the issue. Both career starts begin at 1400 hours outside the harbor.

A career started out of Pearl Harbor in January of 1944 using FOTRSUv71 and FOTRSUv80 "DO" exhibit the issue. Both career starts begin at 1300 hours outside the harbor.

The genesis of the problem seems to coincide with moving the Pearl Harbor career start time from 1400 to 1300.

that doesnt make sense.
im not calling you out but that doesnt make sense.
:timeout::timeout::timeout::timeout:

[Front Runner]

that doesnt make sense.
im not calling you out but that doesnt make sense.
:timeout::timeout::timeout::timeout:


Think of the failure of the second re-load as almost a CTD.

[propbeanie]

It's an "internal data corruption", and I'd say it's similar to trying to switch from running The Museum and then going out on Patrol, or vice versa, where you try to run The Museum after having been on patrol. It usually does not "function as intended", apparently due to certain memory locations used by the game not getting "zeroed-out", or re-set if you will.

I have tried all sorts of different edits with several files in the mod that are different between v0.63 and v0.71. All that I can say conclusively is "don't load a Save after having loaded a Save." If you have to load a Save again, exit the game and try again. I have done several Starts in three versions (63, 71 & 80), and in each of them, upon loading a new career (emptied Save folder, new skipper name) I have gone to the NavMap on my boat, layed in a course to the southwest to the 20th parallel, and directly West from there, and then making a total of five waypoiints in the different versions. I then travel until sunset, stop the boat, take a picture through the Observation Periscope, Save, then exit. Start the game again, Load the Save and check the state of the game. In all three versions, everything is fine. Re-load the same Save, and in v0.63, everything is fine. In v0.71 & v0.80, it is now daylight-looking, still at about 1700 though, the sun is now at 295° instead of 335°, and elevated a good bit, just like it was at 1300 hours. The game has gotten confused.

Of note, the Save in v0.71 & v0.80 is 368kb, while the Save in v0.63 is 276kb. Same sub, same name, same location, same number of waypoints on a very similar route, nearly the same traffic around Pearl upon departure, but nothing showing on sonar, radar or visual several hundred miles south and west of Pearl. Differences between the mods are Scout Planes on ships, and torpedo-shooting AI subs and ships... That's about it. For the time being, that is where I'm laying the "blame", is at the feet of the mod's data load size... I'm still "testing" though. :salute:

[Front Runner]

It's an "internal data corruption", and I'd say it's similar to trying to switch from running The Museum and then going out on Patrol, or vice versa, where you try to run The Museum after having been on patrol. It usually does not "function as intended", apparently due to certain memory locations used by the game not getting "zeroed-out", or re-set if you will.

......That's about it. For the time being, that is where I'm laying the "blame", is at the feet of the mod's data load size... I'm still "testing" though. :salute:


Roger that!
That re-set to "1300" daylight scene is either a "clue" or a "red herring."

[Jeff-Groves]

@ propbeanie,
Can you do a blank campaign test?
That would remove all the extra Units and such.

[Front Runner]

@ propbeanie,
Can you do a blank campaign test?
That would remove all the extra Units and such.


Explain to me how to set that up and I'll do it. PM me.

[Jeff-Groves]

I'm not sure how it's done for SH4 that's why I asked propbeanie.
I use to have a blank campaign for SH4 but that was a long time ago.

[propbeanie]

Yes. I've been doing some editing and deleting for such a move, with the plan to bring one thing at a time back in. I'll text you two a link when I get it set up. :salute:

[podunkpete]

Allow me to muddy the waters. I typically do a save when I first see a target. If it's a convoy, I may do a few saves on the approach to attack (after a VERY bad surprise from a destroyer I never saw!) On a few occasions, I have started a game and tried to load a save which results in CTD. So I back up one save (or more) and try to load, heartbreak. The times this has happened I think either involve a convoy or encountering a convoy in a CC area. Fix? By chance I loaded a save from before I was even dispatched to the convoy area that worked fine. Curious, I then loaded the next save - no issues. I then loaded each save in turn with each running fine, including the ones that initially crashed. After doing a speed/course change, I did a save that worked fine from then on. Maybe somebody slipped a 2 into my software?


Running OM. FPS set to 30. Have seen the "darkness at noon", when it occurs with save issues I start a new career that works fine. Just learned to live with it.

[propbeanie]

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves! :salute:

Check this out:

https://i.imgur.com/wpbbyrA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oGlfrjr.jpg


These two pictures are from after loading the save, and then re-loading the save again. Success... It is FotRSU in all regards, other than the CareerStart, Flotillas and Campaign.cfg files... :hmmm: - All that loads currently is the Balao from Mid 1942 on, at Pearl Harbor only, still starts at 1300 hours, sunset still at the same time. The Campaign.cfg only loads the Campaign_LOC and Campaign_NMS files. No layers, no "Battle" files... Therefore, no ships nor planes load, and no other subs load... I have my suspects, and I'll add back in my "un-suspects" first and see what it does. All "assets" are in their original folders, just no Campaign loaded, no references to other subs and bases in the game. Do either of you two want this version of the "un-mod"?? :salute:

Edit: Thanks for the input podunkpete! That "shift" in the daylight hours is what we're after. :salute:

[Front Runner]

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves! :salute:


More "Grist" for the mill.
I changed the.....

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-01, 1944-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

To.....

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-15, 1944-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

and it worked! Changing the "StartTimeInterval=" to
"1944-01-01, 1944-01-01" DID NOT work!

Also changing....

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-05, 1944-06-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

To.....

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-15, 1944-06-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

Worked! ....but, using "1944-06-05, 1944-06-05" DID NOT work.

AND, finally, changing......

[CareerStart 9]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1945
StartTimeInterval=1945-01-01, 1945-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

to......(using "1945-01-15, 1945-01-15" OR "1945-01-01, 1945-01-01" DID NOT work, changing the "Late war" start dates to the Middle of December...)

[CareerStart 9]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Mid December 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-12-15, 1944-12-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

Worked!

Right now I can create a career Mid-January 1944, Mid-June 1944 and Mid-December 1944, without the issue! Using FOTRSUv80 with ONLY those 3 edits in the "CareerStart.upc" file.

This doesn't "FIX" it but may help "EXPLAIN" it.

[Front Runner]

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves! :salute:

Do either of you two want this version of the "un-mod"?? :salute:




Yes, I would like the "Un-Mod" version. It should come in handy for further testing.

[Front Runner]

Allow me to muddy the waters. I typically do a save when I first see a target. If it's a convoy, I may do a few saves on the approach to attack (after a VERY bad surprise from a destroyer I never saw!) On a few occasions, I have started a game and tried to load a save which results in CTD. So I back up one save (or more) and try to load, heartbreak. The times this has happened I think either involve a convoy or encountering a convoy in a CC area. Fix? By chance I loaded a save from before I was even dispatched to the convoy area that worked fine. Curious, I then loaded the next save - no issues. I then loaded each save in turn with each running fine, including the ones that initially crashed. After doing a speed/course change, I did a save that worked fine from then on. Maybe somebody slipped a 2 into my software?

Running OM. FPS set to 30. Have seen the "darkness at noon", when it occurs with save issues I start a new career that works fine. Just learned to live with it.

If I recall, UBISOFT had a post in their SH4 forum that addressed the CTD on load issue. Their recommendation was to load a file that works and then the files that CTD "magically" would work as well. I can't find it now, but I think it was from one of their "Official" posts.

Does anyone else remember this?

Also, when in my Patrol area and playing in Time Compression, I make save games at "0015" "Sunrise" "Noon" "Sunset" and sometimes at "0815" and "2015", just in case something goes wonky as you have described. Then, at least, I have a fall back position and I'm never too far away from re-gaining the contact on the "re-load". Your issue reinforces that we chase down this "Q/S/L/R" issue.

I remember when SH4 first came out before the 1.5 U-Boat Missions "patch". They recommended that you NEVER save while submerged. Dang!

Regardless of how some players always play without saving, that's OK, that's their style, however, when we get windstorms (AKA Tropical Storms, Hurricanes, Gale Force winds, Severe Thunderstorms, etc) and the lights start "flickering". I'm making a "savegame". Also, I have a cat who likes to play with the keyboard and step on the computer's "Re-Start/On/Off" switch at random times, so, there's that.

[propbeanie]

I'll have to make another copy Front Runner... I ruined my first with a Save on top of it... However, let me comment on your date changes above, and maybe we'll do some of those is FotRSU as well, because those little lines of "ID= LateWar" and "ID= EarlyWar", etc., those have to be on certain dates, and they might overlap in FotRSU. I'll have to check my notes for that. I'm on another version of the "un-mod", and the time of the Jan 1, 1944 start has changed now to 0700 hours... :hmmm: I've got all the 4xa_Jap_*.mis layer files loaded, and it still functions as intended on the double-load of a Save game... More later, and I'll send you a link to a copy of my original "un-mod" here after a bit. :salute:


Edit: Game start time keeps changing, but still plugging away, adding content, and all is well thus far. Won't be long now fellers... :salute:

[propbeanie]

Discovery!

This is with US_NavalBases.mis loading, the picture taken just prior to the Save:

https://i.imgur.com/hlvvfgB.jpg


and this is the picture taken just after loading the Save file a 2nd time:

https://i.imgur.com/dyfaGEe.jpg


That is "1659" in the top picture, and 1701 in the bottom, same location... Therefore, something loading in the US_NavalBases.mis file is causing the issue. I'm going to remove that file now, and activate a few others, just to double-check that, and try it again... Then the surgery on the Bases file begins... yeesh!... :salute:

[propbeanie]

It is NOT my primary suspects in the US_NavalBases.mis file, so I'm still digging... :salute:

[Jeff-Groves]

What happens if you load the save say 5 times?
Does it jump each time?

[propbeanie]

I've not tried that. I stop at two times, and have made a Save on that Save, and it then stays "trashed"... There is definitely something in the US_NavalBases.mis file, but it is attempting to remain incognito... :salute:

[Front Runner]

What happens if you load the save say 5 times?
Does it jump each time?



No, I've tried it. It just duplicates the 1300 daylight scene. Base time remains the same. The orb of the sun stays at the same relative bearing and the same "right ascension" (although, that is observational, not measurable.) It's as if the Celestial Sphere "defaults" to the Career Mission start date and time.

[propbeanie]

Well... I was getting aggravated with it all, trying to figure out what it was about the US_NavalBases.mis file that is causing this issue (I suspect the file because I did quite a bit of editing in it). So I was going to give Jeff a "photo montage" of what it is supposed to (should) do, and what it actually does. When I just now disabled the US_NavalBases.mis file, it is still messing up, and the sun going back to 1300 elevation, but the clock says it should be sunset... So I'll take a couple steps further back, get some sleep tonight, and try again sometime tomorrow... maybe :arrgh!: :salute:

[Front Runner]

Well... I was getting aggravated with it all, trying to figure out what it was about the US_NavalBases.mis file that is causing this issue (I suspect the file because I did quite a bit of editing in it). So I was going to give Jeff a "photo montage" of what it is supposed to (should) do, and what it actually does. When I just now disabled the US_NavalBases.mis file, it is still messing up, and the sun going back to 1300 elevation, but the clock says it should be sunset... So I'll take a couple steps further back, get some sleep tonight, and try again sometime tomorrow... maybe :arrgh!: :salute:

I've done some preliminary tests using a single session of SH4 and creating multiple careers within that same session instead of wiping everything and beginning anew for each individual test. I'm still in the process of confirming my observations.
This is what I've observed.


A Career started before Jan 1 1944 works and the save games from that career "work", even when loading them after a save game that "doesn't work" made while playing a career started Jan 1 1944. The issue appears to travel with either the good or the bad save game.


Create Careers beginning only at Pearl Harbor for this test.


1. Start a game session using a new "Documents/SH4" folder.
2. Create a Career starting anytime before "Beginning of 1944".
3. Head due west (270) until Sunset, save game.
4. Make another save game about 1 hour after SS.
5. Go back to the SS save to see if it works. (It should)
6. Go to the save game made 1 hour later to see if it works. (It should)
7. Go back to the SS save to see if it still works. (It should).
8. Exit to Main Menu. Do not restart the game.
9. Create a Career starting Jan 1 1944 or later.
10. Head due west (270) until Sunset, save game.
11. Make another save game about 1 hour after SS.
12. Go back to the SS save to see if it works. (It should NOT) [EDIT] I've discovered that it is the making of the "SAVE GAME", step (11.)and not the LOADING of the steps (5. 6. 7.) that trigger the issue.
13. Go back to the SS save from step (3.) to see if it works. (It should)
14. Go to the save game made 1 hour later in step (11.) (It should not work)
15. Go to the save game made 1 hour later in step (4.) (It should work.)
16. Convince yourself that the step (10.) save doesn't work by loading it again. (It should not work.)

So, within a single game play session, one can have a mix of save game loads that either work or don't work. It appears that the issue (or lack thereof) travels with the save game data and takes effect upon any serial re-loading made with a "bad" file.

17. Then Quit/Start and load the step (10.) save. (It should work).
18. Load it again and it should not work.
19. Load the save game from step (3.) It should work.
20. Load step (10.). It should not work.


[EDIT] New discovery.


21. Then Quit/Start and load the step (10.) save. (It should work)
22. Make a New Save Game.
23. Load step (10.) again. (It should not work) Note: this was unexpected. I thought that it was the act of "loading" a game that triggered the issue. Merely "saving" the game also triggers the issue.



Stand by for confirmation, I'm working on it now......[EDIT] Confirmed!

[propbeanie]

There has to be a unit or equipment coming on line in one of the files, somewhere near that January 1, 1944 date, or maybe a bit before it... I've lost my place now Front Runner, but did the other boats do this also (not just the Balao)?? Thanks :salute:

[Front Runner]

I have to fall back on logical arguments to understand the sequence of what I am observing.

Definitions.
A= Career Jan 1 1944 Sunset save (BAD)
B= Career Jan 1 1944 one hour past Sunset (BAD)
C= Career June 5 1943 Sunset save (GOOD)
D=Career June 5 1943 one hour past Sunset (GOOD)
E= Career Jan 1 1944 New Save Game (BAD)
F=Career June 5 1943 New Save Game (GOOD)
ST= Restart SH4
SG= Make New Save Game (While in A,B,C, or D)
TRUE = Game works as intended
FALSE = Game does not work as intended.

LOGIC:
If ST then A = TRUE
If A then A = FALSE

LOGIC:
If ST then A = TRUE
If A then SG (E) then A = FALSE !!!
(This is new, I thought it was the act of "loading" that triggers the issue. Either a "SAVE" or a "LOAD" made while in a "BAD" Career start triggers the issue.)

LOGIC:
If ST then C = TRUE
If C then D = TRUE
If D then SG (F) then A = TRUE !!! (Making a "SAVE" from a "GOOD" Career start does NOT trigger the issue.)
If A then A = FALSE
If A then C or D or F = TRUE !!! (Even from a "FALSE" loading, ANY "GOOD" save still "loads" correctly.
If C or D or F then A = FALSE

LOGIC:
If ST then C = TRUE
If C then A = TRUE !!! (re-loading after a "GOOD" load does NOT trigger issue.)
If A then A = FALSE
If A then C = TRUE
If C then D = TRUE
If D then B = FALSE
If B then C or D or F = TRUE

It appears as if the "issue" is triggered by saving or loading, and "attached" to the data contained in the "Save Game".

A "FALSE" condition may be triggered, or arrived at, by either "re-loading" or "saving" a game made while in the BAD Career (A,B or E.)

A "TRUE" condition (C,D or F) may be loaded or re-loaded, at any point, whether or not the game is in the "FALSE" condition. (A, B or E.)


Whew.......!!

[Jeff-Groves]

Now my head hurts.
:doh:
:har:

[Front Runner]

Now my head hurts.
:doh:
:har:


Playing FIZBIN



https://youtu.be/v77SF4TFUoM

[Front Runner]

I neglected to mention that by changing the "Beginning of 1944", "StartTimeInterval", to "1944-01-15, 1944-01-15", the "Middle of 1944", "StartTimeInterval", to "1944-06-15, 1944-06-15" and the "Beginning of 1945", to "Middle of Dec 1944", "StartTimeInterval", to "1944-12-15, 1944-12-15", suspends the issue. (Note: setting the "Beginning of 1945" "StartTimeInterval" to 1945-01-15, 1945-01-15" had no effect on the suspension of the issue.)

I'm drilling down on that now.......

[propbeanie]

So besides the several duplicate names I've found, the DeleteOnLastWaypoint settings, and a few other nigglies, apparentlyt the StartTimeInterval settings "overlap" the transition from "ID= Beginning" to "ID= EarlyWar" to "ID= MidWar" to finally "ID= LateWar" is probably the main culprit. I almost agree, though I have not proven it conclusively. Hopefully, you will shortly! Usually, when there is a mistake with those dates, the game crashes on loading the menu, but maybe not if it's the last one, which "ID= LateWar" first shows on the Beginning of 1944 Start... :salute:

[Front Runner]

So besides the several duplicate names I've found, the DeleteOnLastWaypoint settings, and a few other nigglies, apparentlyt the StartTimeInterval settings "overlap" the transition from "ID= Beginning" to "ID= EarlyWar" to "ID= MidWar" to finally "ID= LateWar" is probably the main culprit. I almost agree, though I have not proven it conclusively. Hopefully, you will shortly! Usually, when there is a mistake with those dates, the game crashes on loading the menu, but maybe not if it's the last one, which "ID= LateWar" first shows on the Beginning of 1944 Start... :salute:

Here are the date ranges that suspend the issue.

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-09, 1944-01-15

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-07, 1944-06-15

[CareerStart 9]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1945
StartTimeInterval=1945-01-18, 1945-01-31

Note: "StartTimeInterval=1944-12-15, 1944-12-15" also suspends the issue. I have not tested backwards from "StartTimeInterval=1945-01-01, 1945-01-15" (The default). Since "StartTimeInterval=1945-01-01, 1945-01-01" does NOT suspend the issue the dates would necessarily begin in Mid December and end in Late December 1944.

Start dates of;
1944-01-08
1944-06-06
1944-01-17
Do NOT work.

I say "suspends" the issue rather than "fixes" the issue because the act of saving or loading a game DURING a month long, or longer, career may also be subject to the issue, or may indeed, suspend the issue. I haven't tested that to "exhaustion" yet.
That being said, however, a quick test of a Career started Jan. 1 1944 (in the BAD range of dates), save games made on both Jan. 17 (within the range of BAD dates) and Jan 18 (within the range of GOOD dates) both failed on the reload. So, it appears unlikely that save game date ranges can be cycled in or out of during the course of the length of a Patrol. That would be good news!

[propbeanie]

Success - for now (again). I can't explain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiLXMdqWUbs
(dig the threads man)


I used your dates Front Runner on the CareerStart, and it does work, with the Alaska starts where they are... Now, here's a conundrum:
v0.63 CareerStart (which works)
[CareerStart 6]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-01, 1944-01-01

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-05, 1944-06-05

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1945
StartTimeInterval=1945-01-01, 1945-01-01
:hmmm: say whuh?...

Stock
[CareerStart 4]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-15, 1944-04-31
That is the only "LateWar" start in stock. So why do the new dates you listed work, and not the others in v0.71, which are the same in v0.80? Surely we're not just chasing our tails, are we?... It does NOT appear to be the "ID=" issue as I supposed earlier... :hmmm: - Strange game. Anyway, photographic "evidence":

https://i.imgur.com/aJhWNwW.jpg


The left hand is after a third reload of the Save, and the right is the picture taken just prior to Save. :doh: :salute:

[Front Runner]

The date changes work!

The issue is officially suspended!

(Knock on Teak!)


propbeanie - thanks for the Shindig flashback!

[propbeanie]

Man, I wish those shows were still on... Don Kirshner's Rock Concert, and a few others over the years... 'Course, The Who are (have??) recording a new "record album" (my 18yo is into vinyl... :roll: ) and then going on tour... They're older than me! Maybe we'll have to get our old band back together and do some YuToob posting, to commemorate The Who's touring...

We will be putting those edits in the CareerStart into the hands of the "Wild" (aka: beta testers) shortly I hope. I've got one more little nigglie that is driving me bonkers... :salute: