New copyright for internet content

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Ft3n.de%2Fnews%2Fleistungsschutzrec ht-linksteuer-uploadfilter-1086337%2F&edit-text=



Even worse is the fact that the system can be abused quite simply. Anyone can claim copyright for content at any time, and then all users are at the mercy of an algorithm. For example, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/06/eus-copyright-proposal-extremely-bad-news-everyone-even-especially-wikipedia&xid=17259,15700021,15700124,15700149,15700168,1570 0173,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhj4aQlp56esPZ7QQvOCrpujY9egwQ) describes what would happen if someone uploaded all of Wikipedia: no one would be able to quote or link Wikipedia content until the machinery sorted out the mischief.

Users whose content was maliciously declared copyrighted by another user would first have to take legal action and complain - in order to be able to use their own content again .


And that's not all: the reform of copyright law also aims to regulate machine-read content. All text and data mining, every machine reading and analysis of content should be relevant to copyright. Mind you: It's not about saving this data, but about the pure reading process. If you want to read and analyze, you have to pay. A disaster for independent scientists, citizens and journalists who are in fact making publicly available data inaccessible.



I stopped reading print newspaper many, many years ago. this maybe is a good invitation to consider stopping to care for internet newspapers as well. Too much rabble-rousing, too much lobby-driven propaganda anyway. Most of what I find, is not worth it.



If many come to my conlsuioon, it will dramatically change traffic patterns - and backfiore severly against those who pushed this new agenda. I take that as a grin-as-much-as-you-can bonus. :up: Regarding scientists and journalists: too much work in their fields these days is corrupted as well anyway.



The bad side of this is that people will be pushed to simply believe the verbal garbage the government tells them for propaganda purposes. But then, many do that anyway, so.



Written paper letters, delivery by people you trust. Ruins every big data scanner's and spy agency's day. Maybe we shoukld ban schools form teahcing children to read and write. In Germany, this project has already reache dimpressingly far. The share of school absolvents being incapable of accurate readi8ng,w riting, understanding texts and doing elemental maths, is climbing form year to year. Strangely, the school notes get better and better on average. :har: Today's average Math-Abitur-absolvents (=Gymnasium, the highest of the three-class school system in germany) , it was reported a week ago, cannot solve math quesiton from Realschul-math exam in the early 60s anymore, representing ther medium-class school format.


All inclusive, so to speak :D

[Dowly]

Sure, let's just stop reading news and make ourselves even more ignorant than we already are. :doh:
What people need to do instead of stop reading online newspapers is to regain their critical thinking skills.

[Skybird]

Don't read newspapers, and be uninformed. Read newspapers, and be misinformed.


Quality has gone down the drain many, many years ago already anyway. Its absolutely no loss not to read newspapers anymore. I would even say its a win in life quality, and a benefit to your health as well.



With TV its even much worse. You cant pratcially differ anymore between TV broadcasters, and political interest groups. The name for that is simple: propaganda.


Those who mess with ylour life and claim it is for the bettgering of the world, in the end all have one thing in common: they want to have control over you and want you to obey their demands. Of course, you get only educated for your own better.



Didn't find the ignore-button? :O:

[Onkel Neal]

Don't read newspapers, and be uninformed. Read newspapers, and be misinformed.



Haha, :Kaleun_Applaud: Oh wow, that was so funny and so true. :yeah:

[Rockstar]

I remember not too long ago somebody brought up that NATO expansion was a broken promise to Russia. Several years ago I read an interview of Mikhail Gorbachev where he states no such things were spoken of when they pulled out of East Germany. I recently tried to find the interview again on Google to no avail all I found was pro Russia stories of broken promises by NATO

I used Duck Duck Go and lo and behold I found Gorbachev's interview.

Not saying one search engine is better than the other but it seems to me Google can sure manipulate its results.

[Jimbuna]

Not saying one search engine is better than the other but it seems to me Google can sure manipulate its results.

That is one of the advantages they have and can abuse whilst being the number one in their field.

[Dowly]

Don't read newspapers, and be uninformed. Read newspapers, and be misinformed.Here in comes the critical thinking skill.


We as humans have more information available to use with a push of a few buttons than have been available to any single person in the history of the world. Use it.

[Skybird]

Correct (="critical") processing of corrupted information necessarily must lead to corrupted results.

[Dowly]

Correct (="critical") processing of corrupted information necessarily must lead to corrupted results.
Bollocks.

There are four lights.

[mapuc]

To be honest I don't give much for this "critical thinking skills"

Because it all depend on the persons belief.

Let say I don't like a certain politicians
In my use of this "critical thinking skills"

I would probably end up with what my belief are/is.

Take a look at some of our own political discussion and some of our discussion about Global warming.

(sorry for this little detour)

Markus

[Catfish]

so true.. most live in their own world of 'information', or personal information bubble. They have an opinion and click away everything they do not like, and Google and Facebook support that!
Tailored advertisements and information, to make people even more dumb..

[Skybird]

Bollocks.

No, just pointing out the obvious (that you reject).

And beyond the how-to of processing, and the quality of its entered object, I even do not mention the third factor that needs to be seen here: the processor himself. Mapuc reflected a bit about it.

The eye cant watch itself. Ylou cannot find final truths about the system you are embedded in as long as you are embedded in thats ystem and its context and do not step beyond, and outside of it.

You can scan as many newspapers of different kinds as you want - your choice already influence the scanning result, the included claims in their articles - and the not included info/claim/statement in their articles as well! - decide the range of possible conclusions/results of your "critical thinking".

And if your only information sources are forged informaiton, propaganda, then you can think as hard as you want, you nevertheless do not get the real picture of the world and its events.

"A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy crazier." - H.L. Mencken.

[Eichhörnchen]

I'm pleased to reflect that I've neither read any newspapers nor watched TV for many years now; I get all my news about the world from BBC Radio.

The issue about paying fees, including even linking to stuff, well that's completely nightmarish. If the measures suggested here were enacted then it would cripple the internet... interpretation of intellectual copyright is enough of a minefield already for individuals and a goldmine for lawyers.

It was a basic foolish mistake on his part, but a guy recently got billed for over £700 for using a tiny photo on his website which belonged to somebody else (I heard this on the BBC News!) Just imagine the worry that these measures would cause... people would just stop using the web

[Skybird]

^Agreeing on all accounts.

And while I liked this detial so much, I again quote it:

"Users whose content was maliciously declared copyrighted by another user would first have to take legal action and complain - in order to be able to use their own content again ."

But who knows, regulating the internet to death might be the political will behind doing so: to suppress it as an opinion platform without being accused of acting like China.

[Eichhörnchen]

I've needed to be very aware of the pitfalls in my work as a painter, especially when it comes to producing artwork for publication. The area is open to wide interpretation and you'll get as many different accounts of what constitutes an infringement as 'experts' you consult. Some will say that it's enough to simply copy another person's image in reverse to avoid infringement... I just don't hold with that... others that you only need to alter one or two details.

I've had my artwork for greetings cards blatantly copied, with some alterations made... but any reasonable person would have looked at it and said that my image had been copied

I realise that this diverges somewhat from the subject of the OP but thought it might be of some interest

[Platapus]

Here in comes the critical thinking skill.


We as humans have more information available to use with a push of a few buttons than have been available to any single person in the history of the world. Use it.

This is what I find the most disturbing. We have access that no previous generation could ever dream of. If we have a question about a law, we can easily pull the text of the law, if we have a question about a court decision, we can pull the slip reports. It only takes a few moments, but it seems that even with this unprecedented access, people are still relying on other people to interpret.

There is an old saying that I just made up: You can lead a person to data, but you can't make them think.

[Platapus]

To be honest I don't give much for this "critical thinking skills"

Because it all depend on the persons belief.



I respectfully suggest that you may not understand what critical thinking is.

[Skybird]

I've needed to be very aware of the pitfalls in my work as a painter, especially when it comes to producing artwork for publication. The area is open to wide interpretation and you'll get as many different accounts of what constitutes an infringement as 'experts' you consult. Some will say that it's enough to simply copy another person's image in reverse to avoid infringement... I just don't hold with that... others that you only need to alter one or two details.

I've had my artwork for greetings cards blatantly copied, with some alterations made... but any reasonable person would have looked at it and said that my image had been copied

I realise that this diverges somewhat from the subject of the OP but thought it might be of some interest
I imagine with the possebilities of digitalization, all this will become even worse. Lawyers must love it, the more complexity in laws and legal situations, the better for them economic basis and their incomes.


The wheel of bureaucratization turns on.

[Skybird]

This is what I find the most disturbing. We have access that no previous generation could ever dream of. If we have a question about a law, we can easily pull the text of the law, if we have a question about a court decision, we can pull the slip reports. It only takes a few moments, but it seems that even with this unprecedented access, people are still relying on other people to interpret.

There is an old saying that I just made up: You can lead a person to data, but you can't make them think.
The quality of data is what is at question here. I woudl ask that question even - and especially - in regard to scientific raw data and the way and method it was won.

[Eichhörnchen]

I imagine with the possebilities of digitalization, all this will become even worse. Lawyers must love it, the more complexity in laws and legal situations, the better for them economic basis and their incomes

My images are out there already, one way or another in digital form, and you can very soon find them if you know what to ask.... all I can do (when it matters) is reduce the file size so that they are clear and good for normal eyes-on viewing, but degrade quickly upon enlargement so as to be useless for unlicensed reproduction as prints etc; I have no problem with people sharing the images around because it's free publicity for me

[Skybird]

Yes. But I also had on mind the easy manipulation of images and data in digital format.

[Eichhörnchen]

Yes indeed, Skybird... there are a lot of "digital artists" out there nowadays...

[Skybird]

Yes indeed, Skybird... there are a lot of "digital artists" out there nowadays...
And lobbyists. Newspapers. Propagandists. Activists.


tbc.

[mapuc]

A friend told us there was a very special referendum in EU Thursday or next Thursday.

I'll not try to write what it means ´cause I'm still trying to understand the whole of it.

From what I understand I can't post a link to a story without this copyright thing.

https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/

Markus

[Jimbuna]

If this is the work of the EU then it must be correct and proper....shouldn't it :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

If this is the work of the EU then it must be correct and proper....shouldn't it :hmmm:

:har:

[mapuc]

To be honest I'm wondering if Skybird didn't mention this in his own thread about this new Copyright content on the Internet.

I have tried to open his links, which have been without any success

If we (Skybird and yours truly) are talking about the same

Merge them.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

If you point me to the thread you're referring too I'll sort that should the above be the case.

[mapuc]

It's this one.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=237805

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[GoldenRivet]

Threads merged.

Chief runs a tight ship dont he?

[Jimbuna]

Chief runs a tight ship dont he?

:Kaleun_Salute::Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[JU_88]

Sure, let's just stop reading news and make ourselves even more ignorant than we already are. :doh:
What people need to do instead of stop reading online newspapers is to regain their critical thinking skills.

Yes :yep: that stop using Facebook posts and tweets as a new source. plus there quite a few independents, that will take your average MSM online articale and take it to pieces with an hour or so's worth of actual investigative journalism.
Your Daily mail's, Guardian's, New York times, Foxes and CNNs etc are only really interested in spinning a sensationalist narrative and feeding peoples confirmation bias.

[JU_88]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44546620

Yes, An EU law that would effectively render the above ^link, as a copy-write infringement....
Thanks EU :nope:

[Skybird]

Linked to this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=237805

So often the worst tyrannies were formed up in the name of meaning it oho soho wehell with mankind.


I am certain it is politically wanted censorship that is not to be called censorship. Instead of offering a flank for criticism, they do not openly censor things, but tighten the ways in which you can express opinions, they tailor speech and alnguage and mob against unwanted terminology, and when replacing censorship with this kind of manipulation, they even reward an economic Nobel prize for it to raise its credibility and reputation: its called "nudging", and yes, work on it was awarded with an Nobel prize recently.



You think the new laws and my rant have nothing to do with each other? Think twice.


I hate moralists. They are the worst of them all.

[JU_88]

Ahh yes forgot about your thread SB, ta.
for whats its worth, you can email your MEP regarding the matter here (I already did it) I have little faith in EU MEP's, but - better than doing/saying nothing.
https://saveyourinternet.eu/

[Skybird]

Its pointless to complain to a fat cat about the system and its legislation, if said fat cat made it its living model to live of this very system and designed it to be supportive for the fat cat's life.

In Germany, the SPD scored jzust 15% or so at last elections, record low. Parties in Germany must not finance themselves by their member'S fees, but everybody mandatoprily get forced to pay them an income that they can waste for their stupid campaign propaganda and such stuff. The rules say that the amount of money is linked to the scoring in last elections. Now, the SPD has suffered in elections, and thus gets much less money now. Too little for thier high flying ambitions to appear as if they still were a great player, so they just demanded that the fiancing pf parties under this mechanism should b e raised from 160 to 185 million Euros. The CDU did not suffer, but likes to get more mandatory payments even from people strictly opposing them , so they agreed. And thats why ther SPD now gets much more money while they scored badly, and the other sget more money as well, and they whipped this through parliamentin the shadow of the football cup, like they often try to do with critical, unpopular decisions. You think complainign does help?

People need to become disloyal to the state and its institutions, people need to boycott state and parties, people need to start to think. Thats why politicians love to lure people with more and more gifts and ficnial supports that they have plundered and robbed form other people: they want to keep people in dependency, so that they do not become disloyal, but become little fat cats themselves.

This is the reral reaosn behind Bismarck'S sorcial insurrance reform, becasue before there were private worker social wellgfare and education clubs that he saw as a potential farming ground for oppositional thinking to his autocratic state. Bismarck once wrote a friend that the only reason why the servants do not slay their masters - he meant his own political caste - was that thy had their own pensions at risk. So he made it that the workers had something at risk as well: he lured them into a state insurrance that cared for their years of higher age and their times of illness, so that they would not dare to bite the hand that fed them.

And like that it is until today, and thanks to paper forged money that can be inflated without limits (and at the known economical long range costs which are "collapse", plain and simple) they push it from bad to worse, from worse to worst.

Zum Kotzen: Voter bribery.

Zum Kotzen: Voters that all too willingly accept to get bribed.

In the end any election is just the High Mass of robbers and plunderers, and nothing gets given in "democracy" of modenr understanding that is not loot and plunder that was stolen from somebody before.

Complaining letters do not do anything. They are just the valve they designed to channel the anger of the occasional critics into formats where it cannot harm them and the system that they nestle in like in a nest.

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully the MEP's will see some sense for a change and reject this law.

Threads merged.

[JU_88]

@ Jim thanks!

@SB, While i agree with you on the whole In that you are probably right, complete surrender to nihilism is even more pointless.
Worst case scenario in writing to them is that it will get ignored and you wasted 15 minutes or so of your life. best case is that if enough people complain, that is more ammunition for those trying to block this bill. MEP's are not all of one hive mind.

[ikalugin]

I wonder if our state would follow the EU lead and regulate our meme posting too.

[JU_88]

To be fair enforcing this will be logistically impossible.
Governments try regulate the internet as if they have never heard of a VPN.

[Jimbuna]

To be fair enforcing this will be logistically impossible.
Governments try regulate the internet as if they have never heard of a VPN.

Very Political Nuisance :03:

[JU_88]

Very Political Nuisance :03:

heh :)

[mapuc]

I'm trying to figure out what it really means for me, an ordinary deadly person.

Markus

[Skybird]

I'm trying to figure out what it really means for me, an ordinary deadly person.

Markus
:D


The word you meant is "mortal". ;) "Deadly" means something very different. :shucks:


Never mind, I just had to laugh loud.

[mapuc]

:D


The word you meant is "mortal". ;) "Deadly" means something very different. :shucks:


Never mind, I just had to laugh loud.

You are correct never thought of that, when I wrote my comment.

I guess it's the end of posting links to stories we are debating.

Markus.

[ikalugin]

To be fair enforcing this will be logistically impossible.
Governments try regulate the internet as if they have never heard of a VPN.
They are trying to ban Telegram.