Mexico is screwed

[Onkel Neal]

Man, I knew it was bad but this really puts it in perspective.
This Mexican candidate had just vowed to tackle crime. Then a gunman shot him dead. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/09/americas/mexico-politician-fernando-puron-killed/index.html)

The Mexican congressional candidate had just left a debate hall where he addressed public security in his northern state. He walks over to a person holding a phone and poses for a picture. In a matter of seconds, a man walks up from behind and shoots him in the head, killing him before walking off.

The death Friday night of Coahuila state's Fernando Puron brought to 112 the number of candidates or politicians killed since the launch of Mexico's electoral campaign in September, according to the consulting group Etellekt. Puron was the first candidate running on the federal level to be killed.

My god, this is insane. It sounds like Mexico is just a few steps away from turning into Somalia. Organized crime has its roots deep into the country's law enforcement and political power.

And half of our country are bubbling with excitement about letting millions of these people in and legalizing their status. Trump was dead on right when he said the criminals of Mexico are entrenched in the US; they are mixed in with the laborers and families looking for work, and liberal Democrats are working overtime to see that they are not molested and safe in sanctuary cities.

[Skybird]

I would not mock any US president seriously consideirng to invade and annex Mexico. Its not on the other side of the planet - its right on your doorstep.

However, you then end up in a seat comparable to the Israelis regarding the Palestinians.

Doomed if you do and doomed if you dont.

Walls sometimes are a reasonable solution. Especially when they are not meant to keep own people in (Eastgerman wall), but to keep bad guys out - man has done like that since many, many, many centuries and millenia with his towns and villages.

Its insane what a hopelessly perverted sense of "libelaism" today makes people i the West to agree to. Open boarders. Asylum for everybody. Endless payments to and endless patience for offenders. A whole industry building up around keeping these deformations of a free society alive.

Much of what the idea of free private cities is basing on, is missing in Western states today. And thats why they fail.

https://freeprivatecities.com/

To me, after 200 years of modern democracy and Western statehood, this concept by which the West wants to define itself, has failed. Law and order is in decline, often actively violated by the states themselves. The social systems cannot be maintained anymore. The military potence to defend oneself is being given up. No controls and no border protection there should be. People nmever havign done anything for their new country the ymoved to, imem dioately hslal have all benefits and rights, while all too often not compensating by giving back accordingly.

This cannot go well endlessly. It must crash down, by all rules of logic.

[Mr Quatro]

Fear will make the citizens of Mexico stronger till the one that rules returns the favor to the fear mongrels ...

Mexico is a harsh climate the hot peppers in their food disguise the flavor of the pork, beef or sea food that lacks refrigeration. The skin pigment is from an unrelentless sun bearing down on a civilization far older than ours.

Mexico will survive ... will the USA?

[Peter Cremer]

This is what happens when the government makes it illegal for citizens to own firearms. You don't hear the anti-gun groups bragging about Mexico's unarmed citizens. Only the army, police, and drug cartels are allowed to have guns. Having corrupt army units and police forces doesn't help.

[Von Due]

This is what happens when the government makes it illegal for citizens to own firearms. You don't hear the anti-gun groups bragging about Mexico's unarmed citizens. Only the army, police, and drug cartels are allowed to have guns. Having corrupt army units and police forces doesn't help.

You are pro gun. I get that but the pro gun arguementation is really out of place here. The reasons then? Try poverty and rampant corruption since pretty much day 1 in Mexico's existence. Hand in hand, they make the breeding ground for drug gangs -> cartels. More guns is not how you solve that.

[Catfish]

Most probably a drug cartel murder. If you read one of Winslow's books.. the situation is really unbelievably ugly. I can understand anyone who wants to flee from there.

Guns, of course. But even if all Mexicans were allowed to bear arms, it would just be a neverending civil war, against the drug animals.

[Onkel Neal]

Most probably a drug cartel murder. If you read one of Winslow's books.. the situation is really unbelievably ugly. I can understand anyone who wants to flee from there.

Guns, of course. But even if all Mexicans were allowed to bear arms, it would just be a neverending civil war, against the drug animals.

True, but at least it would be a fight

[Dowly]

This is what happens when the government makes it illegal for citizens to own firearms. You don't hear the anti-gun groups bragging about Mexico's unarmed citizens. Only the army, police, and drug cartels are allowed to have guns. Having corrupt army units and police forces doesn't help.
Mexicans are allowed to buy and own firearms. :roll:

[Rockstar]

Mexicans are allowed to buy and own firearms. :roll:




i see your 1 eye roll and raise you 1 eye roll :roll: :roll: as Pete seems to make a good point. I wonder too if the gun used was part of 'Project Gun Runner'. :hmmm:


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexicans-have-the-right-to-own-guns-but-few-do/

MEXICO CITY - There’s just one place in all of Mexico where you can legally buy a gun. It’s tucked away in an anonymous building on an army base in the capital, staffed by soldiers.
Mexico’s constitution guarantees citizens’ right to own a handgun and hunting rifles for self-defense and sport. Legally getting your hands on one, however, requires clearing a series of bureaucratic hurdles far stricter than in the U.S. and, for many customers, traveling great distances to reach the country’s lone gun store.
In fact, most of Mexico’s 120 million inhabitants probably don’t even know about the Directorate of Arms and Munitions Sales – it’s prohibited from advertising any of its goods or the mere fact that it exists.

[Dowly]

i see your 1 eye roll and raise you 1 eye roll :roll: :roll: as Pete seems to make a good point.
He tries to make a pro-gun case by saying "Look! This is what happens when the government makes it illegal for citizens to own firearms" which in this case is incorrect since one can buy and own a firearm in Mexico.

[Catfish]

Since the main problem is the cartels and drugs, it would be better to concentrate on that.
Or, to rephrase:
From where do the drug cartels get the money for their 'infrastructure', and arms?
Where do they mostly sell their drugs?
Any chance to come to grips with drug consumption, or to handle that aspect?

How would those cartels fare if drugs were legalized, in the US? I mean it won't happen and i'm not a friend of such policies, just a what-if :hmmm:

[Skybird]

I recently read a bit about the city satate oif Singapore. Singapore has some of the most "draconic" laws in rule one could imagine. For exmaple, drug offences all too moften trigger the detah penalty. But it is a city that has no major drug problems, and is one of the safiest citie son the planet.


The firat amndinstrator of the city experienced the occupation of China by the Japanese. This man said that although people were poor, were suffering and had not much to own at all, they remained to be hoinest and stayed away from becoming criminal. That was becasue the Japanese punished even minor crimes and offences with very drastically. Dratsical punishment does work, he concluded, and form the views of Behaviorism and the research for it done in the 50s and 60s, I also would say that it is expected to work.


What this man also concluded was that the Western law philosphy of resocialising b efore punishment, and endless patience, and that if people are well situated and live in a socially stable environment they would not become criminal, does not work. And that is my reasoning, too: it works at least extremely badly.



Somebody has to go into Mexico, and enforce a draconic sanctioning of crime and malicious anarchy. Three eyes for one eye, six teeth for one teeth - this kind of law and order. Were you see corruption, kill the corrupted. Wipe the cirminals out, no matter whether small fishes or big bosses.


This is th eonly thing that will work. Nobody likes ot hear that, I do not olike to say it. But that is the only thing that could work. Mexico more and more becomes a growing wound inside thr two Americas, and like any bodily infection it will start to - and already does - spread.



Not just since reading about Singapore I think that the Western law system is very severly messed up with it resocialising prioprity. It just does not work. I also do not like it for always putting emphasis on the interests and outlook of the perpetrator, and minimises the attention and interest for tzhe victims.



A wall is only a temporary measure a slong as it is not as tight as the inner German deathzone was, or the NorthKorean-SouthKorean border is - including shoot-to-kill orders. Mexico must be pacified, and you cannot have that without a full military invasion, and a super-tough crackdown on corrupted elites and organised crime. The US has messed arpound for far less riobust interests in Irak, afghanistan, Soimalia, and elsewhere. But Mexico it leaves untouched although of all these possible and/or real scenarios Mexico is the clearest and biggest danger to the US?


Okay. Not my place, not my interest. Just saying. Just one thing is clear by now: Mexico by now is a 100% failed state. With all negative consequences that come from that and that radiate into the neighbouring states.

[Catfish]

^ All good and well in theory.

Of course an invasion and killing all of the bastards will work. We have seen this in Germany after WW2, when all the former elites were instantly re-installed, to get at least a bit of control over a wrecked country. 'De-Nazification', my donkey. This was the reason for the '68 student revolts, when the young found out about reality.
Singapore is a very bad example, Asians are way more easily brought under control by draconic measures, while Mexicans will more probably revolt. Of course "you" can shoot them all.

What you and a lot more seem to completely misunderstand is where the root of the problem is. Even shooting them all will not cure the problem, only the symptom – if at all.

The US agency DEA fights a decades long war against the drug cartels, against corrupt politicians and against the Mafia. And both are situated in.. the US.
Another problem is the CIA. When Reagan (ab)used the CIA to deal with drugs and finance some of his invasions, the DEA, while having a hard time doing so, exposed all of those lies and drug deals. This information was not directly suppressed, it was just that nobody wanted to hear about it.
The genereal philosophy is like "There is always going to be a drug trade and a drug cartel, it might as well be our drug cartel."

If you invade Mexico and "kill all", Columbia will gladly get into business. And then there is Afghanistan. And so on.
There is a heroine epidemic in the USA, but also in parts of Europe. As long as this persists, there is no easy final solution.

Some more info on one of the drug lords:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/don-winslow-author-of-the-cartel-levels-about-el-chapo

[em2nought]

If you invade Mexico and "kill all", Columbia will gladly get into business.

I think they learned their lesson already, besides they're going to be the leader in the legal mary jane business now. Oh, and they really hate when you spell the name wrong.

Medellin looks so inviting that I think I'm going to live there instead of Quenca. Girls, food, weather, mountains, paragliding, girls. Wohoo! :yeah:

We'll have the troops to man the border as soon as they get back from the DMZ. Hopefully within the year, don't even need anything in return from Rocket Man, and I'd promise to never return no matter what! :D

[Skybird]

Yes Catfish, its all the US' fault. As usual.



I am very much aware of the CIA operation to finance the contras by findign them aways to sell drugs on the Us market, and all that. However, this is not the cause of the problem.



Already in 2006, I had written here in the forum, or linked to, a long essay on the then young Afghanistan war, 30 pages or so, title was "Trapped in the Afghan maze". And already in that I recommended a work by A.W. McCoy, The Politics of Heroin: CIA complicity in the global drug trade. -LINK (https://www.amazon.com/Politics-Heroin-Complicity-Global-Trade/dp/1556524838/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528666600&sr=8-1&keywords=mccoy+politics+of+heroin)- My copy of that found a wet grave in the strong rain flooding we had some years ago, but that long I know already about what you point at. you must not tell me.



The problem is that even where you attacks on the US in parts may be correct or indicate a shared guilt for theirs indeed, you ruin it by claiming it is all only their exclusive guilt, and no other factors play in. Its always the US' guilt alone, and you imply by that if the US would fall back, then all would be good since then the source of evil in the world has vanished. Man, that is so typically German far left leaning. And it is a mutilated, simplified carricature of reality. And it simply is wrong. But you complained in the past when I call you out as a left? Stop bringing up the German left's claims and arguments, and I stop associating you with them. That simple it is.



The book by McCoy is very good, btw, if you are interested in that matter serioulsy. I just found it a bit difficult to read, and cannot even say why. I recall that it was very sober, maybe that was why I struggled with its English.



Mexico now is what it is. How it got there, can obviously argue dabiut, but it doe snot really matter. How to contain the plague from spreading - that is what its about now. And just appelaing to them and hoping that reason will prevail, will not do anythging, nor will any fincial transfers or open border policies.


If the US woulkd go into Mexico and then recruit all those corrupted policemen and officials and politicans, then I cannot help them. But my laughs will be on them. In Iraq, they fired all the RG officers and Baathist big names, different to wehat you just implied they would do in mexico. Again, in Iraq it worked terribly against them, and the country. You cannot compoare, obviously, the case of post-war Gewrmany, Iraq and Mexico. Its comparing apples, oranges and bananas.

[JU_88]

I would not mock any US president seriously consideirng to invade and annex Mexico. Its not on the other side of the planet - its right on your doorstep.

However, you then end up in a seat comparable to the Israelis regarding the Palestinians.

Doomed if you do and doomed if you dont.

Walls sometimes are a reasonable solution. Especially when they are not meant to keep own people in (Eastgerman wall), but to keep bad guys out - man has done like that since many, many, many centuries and millenia with his towns and villages.

Its insane what a hopelessly perverted sense of "libelaism" today makes people i the West to agree to. Open boarders. Asylum for everybody. Endless payments to and endless patience for offenders. A whole industry building up around keeping these deformations of a free society alive.

Much of what the idea of free private cities is basing on, is missing in Western states today. And thats why they fail.

https://freeprivatecities.com/

To me, after 200 years of modern democracy and Western statehood, this concept by which the West wants to define itself, has failed. Law and order is in decline, often actively violated by the states themselves. The social systems cannot be maintained anymore. The military potence to defend oneself is being given up. No controls and no border protection there should be. People nmever havign done anything for their new country the ymoved to, imem dioately hslal have all benefits and rights, while all too often not compensating by giving back accordingly.

This cannot go well endlessly. It must crash down, by all rules of logic.


The question is what is driving it? we talk about open borders being liberal and progressive etc. but maybe that it just how its being sold.
I fear its all for cheap workers to do the low skilled jobs a bloated middle class wont, and pay in to /prop up a broken system that is going to run in to trouble when the aging population comes to a head (more people retired than in work). Those I think are the real reasons mass immigration is encouraged, the liberal 'multiculturalism' part is just a more effective way to sell 'population replacement'.
Aging population and Low birthrates are the inevitable result of the decline of marriage the nuclear family which has been driven by a multitude of things; mass middle class expansion, free education, women entering the work force, welfare state, wage stagnation etc. Explain the wests situation to anyone outside of it the and the response is usually the same: 'then why did you stop having kids you idiots?'

[Skybird]

^ Part of the truth all that is, yes. But our system sets the wrong incentives, for everybody. For private ordinary people. For politicians. The tragic of the common, as it is called, is omnipresent, everywhere. And socialism is successful only because its utopia depicts a land of milk and honey free from any hardship where your mere claim for happiness already makes people think they have claim for somebody else paying for their own happiness. Socialism appeals to some of the lowest and most despicable instincts in man, lainress, greed, and creative lethargy, thats why it is so appealing for many. In short, it appeals to emotions, and completely bypbasses the brain (reason, thinking, logic).


It cannot and maybe should not be tried to be replaced by force, such a fight is lost from beginning on, I think. It can only be made obsolete by somethign better showing up. My favourite idea is something similiar to the Hanse. Or Venice. Genua. The author of that book I earlier recommended in this thread, to my joy also referred to the Hanse as a good example, and as an admirer of the oldtown of Lübeck I must like the concept anyway :) . Ironcially, the Hanse was successful and influential as long as it stayed out of politics. From the time on when Lübeck occupied all administrative power and formed a caste of de facto politicians, they started "to do politics", and started to intervene elsehwere, and started to drive their thing full speed against the wall - the decline of the union began. In Switzerland, to stay out of foreign people'S disputes, is part of the state reason until today. Singapore is a successful (and militarily surprisingly strong!) free city - but hides its power and stays out of other's fights, cares for its own business. To my surprise I learned that such examples and zones are forjing up across the whole planet, in Honduras, China anyway (Shengzehn is just one special zone heavily focussing on economy), Chile, even Saudi Arabia plans a free city zone with explicit exclusion from Islamic and Saudi law codes (my jaw dropped oepn when reading that). Such a project is also planne don the Balkan. Once there are enough, hundreds and hundres of such places of different tastes where any animal can find its favourite pleasure, states cannot really escape anymore to accept competition with them and then taking these places' success as an exmaple by which they must reinvent themselves, people will vote with their feet if they must not switchz continents or states, but just cities - many of us already have done that when changing an expensive flat for a cheaper one, or one we just found more attractive. In China and Shengzhen this already happens, the zone has far-reaching own legislation that sets it apart from the surrounding Chinese territory. Huawei is the first private business corporation that enjoys far-reaching exclusion from party dictate and usual Chinese legislation, its as much a private entrepreneurship and capitalist company as it can get. Thats why it is successful, and thats why it financially pays off for China to let them run their ways. Market and capitalism beats planned economy (if that ain'T no old news). Even China sees that. Then there are Andorra. Of course Lichtenstein, Monaco: Places for already rich people, still - they teach states a lesson on how to keep your homework in proper order, they are stable, secure, and well-administered, and have reserves that natiosn and states can omly dream of. Sandy Springs. I recently heared of a global movement called I think Seafahrer. They plan to build autonomous private cities run as companies where citizens are customers and the city being a supplier of services citizens can - and in parts must - order and pay for, which means that citizen can hold the city administration fully liable and accountable if it fails on the contracts' agreed conditions, they can sue it. Private law, not state authority. try to sue your govenrment when it wastes your blackmailed taxes that you have to pay for stuff you never have ordered and never wanted! Its free trading versus dictatorship and slavery.



We do not hold politicians and central bankers accountable for their lies, cheating, betrayals and fraud and crimes. No matter the damage their clever plans bring, they must not fear any responsibility, and they can keep all their gold and priviliges. No wonder that they do not care for the consequences of their deeds, and serve their own pocket-filling only and their own power ambitions. In Germany, short before the football championship now, the SPD, on its historically low score, tries to pushes through a raise in its financial payments from the voters. The system was meant to "compensate" parties for their campaigns and advertising (why, I ask?), and smaller parties get a bit less than bigger parties, it is according to the election results. Now the SPD wants to get money as if it still would get heyday results, in other words, the punishing vote of last elections shall have no consequence for them. In the shadow of football fever, they hope to sneak it through without anybody noticing it. It tells you all about the mentality of this scum that you need to know about them.



There can be no freedom in the presence of policians doing politics. The first is only possible in the absence of politics and politicians. Private-law-depending relations between people is the alternative, a private law basing on just two base principles: reciprocity, and the Golden Rule. You then see that polticians are not needed at all.


Sorry, got carried a way a bit. But it is not completely unconnected to the topic.

[JU_88]

if you you mean like a society that that puts entitlements and 'rights' before responsibilities. I agree, that is one major thing we have royally screwed up.
Not sure i quite agree with you on the socialism comment, I agree socialism breaks more than it fixes in the long run, But i don't believe all those to advocate it are evil, I believe for some part their intentions can be considered 'good' (e.g thinking of what will benefit others besides themselves).... but you know what they say about the road to hell, paving and all that.
I don't view left or right wing people as inherently good or bad, just different.

I think posted this before here, but this is pretty good on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxWBXOZ9PM&t=1s

[Skybird]

In the end, ignoring the nature of man never will lead to lasting positive results, because it is against the nature of man then.



And if you constantly nurse the lazy and uncreative options in man'S motivation, and always appeal to his lower instincts instead of his reason and sense of responsibility, how could one expect to get something good from that? If you want to harvest good fruits, you should not bring out bad seeds on an acrid field.



You get out of the black box what you put into the black box. Attract all weakness, dependency and parasitism of the worlld, and that is what you will get. Add more and more weak links to a chain, and you get not a stronger chain, just one that is longer, but as strong only as its weakest link. A longer, weaker chain. EU is a prime example. Ever more new candidates. But no strong ones, only net receivers. Thanks, but no thanks, man.


I never believed that the company of the weak makes you stronger, and that also would be against my - modest - life experience. It makes you being handicapped, thats all. There can be reasons imagined, in the field of private relations, why you and even me would accept that, but you should nevert assume it increases your degrees of freedom, gives you more options, makes you "strong". Weakness is weakness, nothing else.


Watchign the vidoe now.

[JU_88]

In the end, ignoring the nature of man never will lead to lasting positive results, because it is against the nature of man then.



And if you constantly nurse the lazy and uncreative options in man'S motivation, and always appeal to his lower instincts instead of his reason and sense of responsibility, how could one expect to get something good from that? If you want to harvest good fruits, you should not bring out bad seeds on an acrid field.



You get out of the black box what you put into the black box. Attract all weakness, dependency and parasitism of the worlld, and that is what you will get. Add more and more weak links to a chain, and you get not a stronger chain, just one that is longer, but as strong only as its weakest link. A longer, weaker chain. EU is a prime example. Ever more new candidates. But no strong ones, only net receivers. Thanks, but no thanks, man.


I never believed that the company of the weak makes you stronger, and that also would be against my - modest - life experience. It makes you being handicapped, thats all. There can be reasons imagined, in the field of private relations, why you and even me would accept that, but you should nevert assume it increases your degrees of freedom, gives you more options, makes you "strong". Weakness is weakness, nothing else.


Watchign the vidoe now.

Yes i agree^ :yep: Victim hood culture is also big part of it, if you repeatedly convince a person they are a victim, they will only ever be able to live like a victim. They will never be strong, they will never strive to do better, they pass all responsibility for improving there life on to everyone else around them, they live by a narrative where all problems can only be solved by external forces.
its makes people perpetually weak and infantile- yet at the same time it is addictive like a drug. They might still fight and struggle, but only to tackle other peoples behavior and never their own.

[Skybird]

And the wellfare industry. The more you redistribute from the haves to the have-nots, the more have-nots you get. The more you "fight" poverty, the poor people you get. A surrounding ecospystem of helping, managing and else concerne dpeople emerges. They want to be paid, they want to get pensions. Soon, like with any bureaucracy, the interests of these organsiations and structure grow to the importance level of the social cases they were founded for to help them. And again some time later these organisations overrule the importance of the poor they are managing, the organisation's selfinterest becomes what the show is being run for, the poor, the socially dependent people are just the ore that gets mined and refined to keep the indtry running. So, the incentive is to keep people poor, to make them beleive they are poor, to define them as poor, and to push them into poverty. Or dependency. Or insert any social quality you want.


You see it everywhere. The higher the generla welath of our societies is, the more poor get counted - althoguh they are poor on ever and ever higher levels of metrial own "wealth". Many poor people today would have been extrenely well-situated people less than 100 years ago. The poor 100 years ago were much better off than the poor before the industrial revolution.



Then the problem of attracting foreigners. The more social you are, the more welcoming you are, the more caring yo are, the kindier oyu are - the more will come, right because of this behaviour of yours. You cannot talk reasonably about keeping migration down if being so welcoming to it and if you even allow yourself getting abused by foreigners wanting stuff from you, and you think you have the duty to comply with somebody elses demand just because he raises it. This schizophrenia is especially popular here in the EU.



A very good, now dead, old-school correspondent and adventurer of French-German heritage, Peter Scholl-Latour, once said: "If f you invite half of Kalkutta, you do not help Kalkutta, but become yourself Kalkutta." Any questions...? :)

[Rockstar]

113 Politicians Have Been Killed Ahead Of Mexico’s Election. There Are Still Two Weeks To Go.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/karlazabludovsky/113-politicians-killed-this-election-season-in-mexico?utm_term=.dhl6Lw2EN#.mqLRoQbA0

...“Violence is altering the profile of candidates,” Alejandro Hope, a security analyst, told BuzzFeed News. “Who sticks around? The reckless and those who collude [with criminals].”

..."This is evidence of Mexico’s decay,” said Figueroa, adding that volunteers couldn’t enter a handful of neighborhoods in Durango State, in northern Mexico, to hand out flyers, because it was simply too dangerous.

...Analysts say organized crime and local criminal groups are behind many of the murders, though some appear to have been committed by political rivals.

...And yet, people are focused on election day, as if “the entire country will end on July 1 and the entire country will be reborn on July 1,” said Cossío, the Supreme Court judge, who called the current state in Mexico an electoral fog.
“I’m worried about July 2.”

[mapuc]

I hope they will have solve all these problems before 2026.

Markus

[Skybird]

Hope for global warming coming to an end before 2026. That gives you a better chance for success.

[mapuc]

I was thinking about FIFA World Cup 2026, which are to be held in Canada, USA and Mexico.

From what I understand, there are plans for 9-10 games in Canada and Mexico.

Markus

[Skybird]

An idiotic decision that illustrates the complete desinterest in the sports by this hopelessly corrupted, criminal organisation named FIFA (or IOC or UEFA, for that matter).

[Armistead]

Mexicans are allowed to buy and own firearms. :roll:

Legally they can per their constitution, but there is a catch. It's rather costly and regulated, but the kicker is, there's only one location ran by the govt in all of Mexico a gun can be purchased, so legal ownership is very low. However, say some law was passed with a mass arming of citizens, I don't know that would solve anything since there's no true system of law and order in many towns. You would almost need a revolution of righteous people, but the economics aren't there to back it up. Mexico is really in a state of war and I would put our military on the border to shut it down.

[Aktungbby]

I don't know that would solve anything since there's no true system of law and order in many towns. NUTHIN' GOOD GOES OUTTA STYLE...HOMBRE!

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l4Ho23Wo1LjAeMoXS/200w.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ)

[Sean C]

Hope for global warming coming to an end before 2026. That gives you a better chance for success.


I thought civilization was going to collapse (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=237732) by then. :O:

[Reece]

I'll certainly collapse by then!! :yep:

[Skybird]

Civilization will collapse if Germany cannot screw Mexico tomorrow. :arrgh!:

[Spectre-63]

Legally they can per their constitution, but there is a catch. It's rather costly and regulated, but the kicker is, there's only one location ran by the govt in all of Mexico a gun can be purchased, so legal ownership is very low. However, say some law was passed with a mass arming of citizens, I don't know that would solve anything since there's no true system of law and order in many towns. You would almost need a revolution of righteous people, but the economics aren't there to back it up. Mexico is really in a state of war and I would put our military on the border to shut it down.


This is exactly the problem! When the government limits access, particularly on this scale, the right to firearm ownership is there in name only.

[Von Due]

A hint of how crazy the situation is
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44597807

[Rockstar]

NSFW - NSFW - NSFW but very very relevant and hilarious



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-hahRWhFvg

[Catfish]

I said it before and i said it again:
Get a grip on drug consumption in the USA with whatever means, only then Mexico will have a chance to get rid of the cartels.
Read Don Winslowe, and you might at least get a glimpse on what is going on in the USA, and in Mexico.

[Rockstar]

Get off your your high horse. You're being naive to think drug use in the U.S. is solely responsible for Mexico's mess. Tell ya what why doesn't Europe set the example for once show us how it's done. Instead of blaming the U.S. for all the worlds ills.

Latin America is a crucial geographic zone for drug production and trafficking. The Andean countries of Colombia, Peru and Bolivia are the world’s main cocaine producers, while Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean have become the principal corridors for transporting drugs into the United States and Europe.

With Germany's drug use also comes other things contributing to Mexico.

http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-complicity-in-mexican-drug-wars-under-scrutiny/a-18390756

Got any ideas?

[Catfish]

Who do you think exports the drugs? What has the CIA to do with drug traficking? Why does the DEA have such problems? From where do the cartels get the money to buy their weapons, and all this infrastructure? Why do so many people flee, from Mexico? Of course there's the Mafia, the N'drangeta and whatnot who have a hand in distributing the stuff , also to Europe, but they all get the stuff via the US.
The focus has to be on the demand side of the equation. It means focusing on drug treatment and addiction north of the Rio Grande, and the distribution from there.

Regarding getting a grip on the situation from a european viewpoint? Offering legal drugs cost-free to real addicts and helping them to get out, look at Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Germany. Still enough idiots who want drugs because it is soo cool, but compared to Mexico?
You see 16-year olds drive around in fat SUVs and spending a thousand dollars per day, so your chance to get money is to join the club, and it is so easy.
On the other hand you are a good law-abiding politician who wants to ban drugs and arrest drug dealers? You're dead.

Or, maybe you find 10,000 Dollars in your mail box, without any info, every week. You do not even know to whom you can give the money back, and that is the trick. After some weeks there will be some small demands, and either you obey, or they kill your wife, your kids, and you. And maybe your neighbours, just to make sure. “What good is an atrocity if no one knows you did it?”

And now i climb my high horse: All Mexicans are baaad. Build wall and make America great again, all problems solved. Only that this is not my high horse.

It is not meant as harsh as it sounds, but if anyone is interested in the background of drug trafficking, read Winslowe's "Days of the dead", it will really open your eyes.
edit sorry, the english title of the first book is "The power of the dog", the second "The Cartel".

[Iceman]

This cannot go well endlessly. It must crash down, by all rules of logic.

I totally agree...it is laws of physics at this point....it can not be sustained and is reaching a boiling point, the world is for that matter. For me personally it is not unexpected.

A city divided against itself can not stand....and unless the Lord had shortened the days No Flesh shall be saved. We as humans are on a fast track to destruction. The ref is going to step in soon and call this a game...IMO. :)

[Hawk66]

After reading
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/mexican-immigrants-united-states and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_Mexico (especially paragraph trend reversal).

Why is the Mexican immigration currently such a big issue in the US now? Is the crime rate higher now (have not checked that) ?

I see the high number of illegals as an issue for sure but I do not understand why it is now such a big deal in the last two years and not, let's say 10 years ago...

[Rockstar]

Wow thats odd, well no its not in fact I think its on par.

on one hand we have someone blaming the U.S. drug problem for an emmigration crisis.

On the other hand others are saying the trend is reversing and more Mexicans are staying home.

Lol

[Catfish]

[...] Why is the Mexican immigration currently such a big issue in the US now? Is the crime rate higher now (have not checked that) ?
I see the high number of illegals as an issue for sure but I do not understand why it is now such a big deal in the last two years and not, let's say 10 years ago...

Because Trump says it is, and all chime in. You know someone must be the scapegoat, for all you do not like in life. And if it did not disturb you before Trump said it, you now have his opinion. It's magic!

[August]

After reading
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/mexican-immigrants-united-states and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_Mexico (especially paragraph trend reversal).

Why is the Mexican immigration currently such a big issue in the US now? Is the crime rate higher now (have not checked that) ?

I see the high number of illegals as an issue for sure but I do not understand why it is now such a big deal in the last two years and not, let's say 10 years ago...


It's a big deal because the left thinks they can bash Trump with it. A manufactured outrage like the homeless problem of a previous election it disappears from the public view (though not in reality) just as soon as the Democrats get back into power.

[Onkel Neal]

I said it before and i said it again:
Get a grip on drug consumption in the USA with whatever means, only then Mexico will have a chance to get rid of the cartels.
Read Don Winslowe, and you might at least get a glimpse on what is going on in the USA, and in Mexico.

I agree 100%. The drug users in America are in large part to blame. If it was up to me, I would go full Duarte on drug dealers and users. But we are going farther in the wrong direction, with "treatment" being the big buzzword (my tax dollars being the fuel for that waste) and lighter prison sentences for "Non-violent" drug offenders.

Because Trump says it is, and all chime in. You know someone must be the scapegoat, for all you do not like in life. And if it did not disturb you before Trump said it, you now have his opinion. It's magic!

No, not at all. Trump is merely mirroring what many of us have been saying for years. We are being invaded by people from other countries. By the millions. It's time to decide if we want to turn over our democracy to "fureigners" who can't rub two sticks together in their homeland, or retain our right as a soverign nation to limit immigration to legal and approved levels. Approved by us, the voters.

[u crank]

We are being invaded by people from other countries. By the millions. It's time to decide if we want to turn over our democracy to "fureigners" who can't rub two sticks together in their homeland, or retain our right as a soverign nation to limit immigration to legal and approved levels. Approved by us, the voters.

The title of this thread is very accurate, unfortunately. Mexico may be on its way to being the next Venezuela.

If the polls are right, Mexico will elect Andrés Manuel López Obrador president on Sunday, July 1.....

Should he ascend to the presidency as predicted, his radical ideas will spell trouble for both Mexico and the U.S. for several reasons.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/29/why-americans-should-care-about-mexicos-presidential-election/

Although López Obrador tries to cast himself as a moderate, many of his critics see similarities between him and Hugo Chavez.

Like Chavez, López Obrador is charismatic and promises to bring a “radical revolution” to Mexico. True to his left wing beliefs, his economic plan is all about taxing and spending. He calls for universal access to public colleges, raising the minimum wage and increasing spending for welfare.

The Economist warns Mexicans that “the charismatic leaders who ride these resentments to power are almost always false prophets.” When a false prophet leads a country, both citizens in that country as well as their neighbors across the borders will suffer. Exhibit A is Venezuela. This is why the U.S. should care about the Mexican election — there’s an excellent chance that Exhibit B ends up on our southern border.

I hope you Yanks realize, despite our idiot boy-king, that Canada is still your best neighbor. :D

[Catfish]

[...] No, not at all. Trump is merely mirroring what many of us have been saying for years. We are being invaded by people from other countries. By the millions. It's time to decide if we want to turn over our democracy to "fureigners" who can't rub two sticks together in their homeland, or retain our right as a soverign nation to limit immigration to legal and approved levels. Approved by us, the voters.

By you, the voters. I'd say your population is about 50:50 divided about that. And What is that thing with "sovereign nation" all the time? Isn't the USA a sovereign nation? Why does Trump always uses the words "illegal", "criminal" and degoratory terms before the word "foreigner"?
"We have said this for years", oh i am sure. You would have protested, but you did not dare, or it was going to rain. And now that some !"&/$%&/!!! like Trump is leader, they all come out of their holes and can spout their "opinion" they had all the time.
The scary thing is that you seem to be right, the US have been like that all along, and it just took some Trump to let it all out now. Radicalizing and polarizing with a good load of populism seems to be the shinizzle all over the world now, to win elections.
We are being invaded by people from other countries. By the millions.
The USA consists of 'invaders', yes, sans some indians.
Sorry, i like you, and most Americans on a personal level, but when it comes to politics.. NEVER! :03:

[Reece]

What I love about America is their "Bill of Rights" much better than anything Australia has (none)!!:yep:

[Rockstar]

By you, the voters. I'd say your population is about 50:50 divided about that. And What is that thing with "sovereign nation" all the time? Isn't the USA a sovereign nation? Why does Trump always uses the words "illegal", "criminal" and degoratory terms before the word "foreigner"?
"We have said this for years", oh i am sure. You would have protested, but you did not dare, or it was going to rain. And now that some !"&/$%&/!!! like Trump is leader, they all come out of their holes and can spout their "opinion" they had all the time.
The scary thing is that you seem to be right, the US have been like that all along, and it just took some Trump to let it all out now. Radicalizing and polarizing with a good load of populism seems to be the shinizzle all over the world now, to win elections.

The USA consists of 'invaders', yes, sans some indians.
Sorry, i like you, and most Americans on a personal level, but when it comes to politics.. NEVER! :03:


Why is it derogatory to call a criminal a criminal or to call an illegal immigrant and illegal immigrant? In my opinion the terms are factually descriptive. Please dont allow the media to confuse you or the issue. An immigrant lawfully crossing a boarder seeking asylum, applying for a visa, permanent residency or citizenship is not an illegal immigrant or a criminal.

Its the illegal immigrant the ones who attempt to unlawfully circumvent the lawful process of entry into this country that we want to catch. As opposed to the just over 37,000,000 LEGAL immigrants of all nationalities already in this country.


The criminals that Trump spoke about are ACTUAL criminals the hot topic these days seems to be MS13. It appears to me y'all in Germany are about day late and a dollar short. Because its already been at least 4 weeks ago that one political party tried to push the same argument that Trump was calling all immigrants criminals, he wasn't and the media dropped it pretty quick because it had no merit. I think it was initially spun by Nancy Pelosi.

[XenonSurf]

Maybe it's because of the Russian rap song :)


OOOppps, sorry: I thought the title was refering to the Football championship...

[Sean C]

Perhaps something is being lost in translation here, but I will try and answer your questions and clear up some of the confusion.



What is that thing with "sovereign nation" all the time? Isn't the USA a sovereign nation?


Yes, it is. That is the point. We would like to keep our existing right to decide who can and cannot enter into this country, as any sovereign nation can. And by "we", I mean "we, the people", since that is the foundation of the U.S. form of government. However, it seems there is a push to shame the people of the U.S. into giving up that right and to let any and everyone in, regardless of their potential.



Why does Trump always uses the words "illegal", "criminal" and degoratory terms before the word "foreigner"?


Because those are the people we want to keep out. If someone goes through the legal process of becoming a citizen there are background checks and other systems designed to ensure that that person is not a criminal, and will instead be a productive member of society. I think you would find there are very few people in the U.S. who are opposed to that scenario. On the other hand, turning a blind eye to illegal immigration gives us no way to filter out the thieves, rapists and murderers who also want to enter this country. Just to be clear: there are many good people who enter the U.S., legally and illegally, all the time. We just want to make sure that they are the only ones who get in.



"We have said this for years", oh i am sure. You would have protested, but you did not dare, or it was going to rain. And now that some !"&/$%&/!!! like Trump is leader, they all come out of their holes and can spout their "opinion" they had all the time.
The scary thing is that you seem to be right, the US have been like that all along, and it just took some Trump to let it all out now. Radicalizing and polarizing with a good load of populism seems to be the shinizzle all over the world now, to win elections.


Actually, President Obama put many policies in place to stop illegal and dangerous immigrants from entering the U.S. But, the media liked him, so it wasn't a bad thing. Seriously. Look it up. The only reason this is a big deal now and people outside the U.S. are hearing so much about it is because Trump said it too. And the media hates Trump.


https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/sen-barack-obama-illegal-immigration


The USA consists of 'invaders', yes, sans some indians.
Sorry, i like you, and most Americans on a personal level, but when it comes to politics.. NEVER! :03:


Neither Neal, myself or any American you may talk to today has stolen land from the Native Americans. That happened a long time ago. Does that make it right? Certainly the answer is no. Is there anything we can do to change what happened? The answer to that is also no. There are many people alive on Earth today who are descended from people who did bad things. But do we blame them for the crimes of their fathers?



But the fact remains that we live here now, and we would like to protect the millions of innocent people within our borders and our country itself. If you think that is wrong ... well, so be it. We will have to agree to disagree.

[August]

To get to the US border these illegal aliens had to pass 4-5 US consulates (not counting those on the Mexican side of the border) where they could have made applications for asylum (not to mention those in their country of origin). They bypassed them all so they could sneak across the border and use their kid (or at least somebodies kid) as a get out of jail free card.


If Germany wants to open their borders that is their business but don't be telling us we're wrong for not wanting to commit that particular method of national suicide.