View Full Version : U.S. to slap tariffs on steel, aluminum from EU on Thursday: sources
WASHINGTON/PARIS (Reuters) - Washington will announce plans to slap tariffs on EU steel and aluminum imports as early as Thursday morning, sources said, while the U.S. commerce secretary said any escalation of their trade dispute would depend on the bloc’s reaction.
While not confirming directly that the U.S. would decide to impose tariffs, he said: “It’s up to the European Union to decide if it wants to take retaliatory measures. The next question would be: how will the (U.S.) President (Donald Trump) react? You saw his reaction when China decided to retaliate.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-metals-europe/u-s-to-slap-tariffs-soon-on-steel-aluminum-from-eu-wsj-idUSKCN1IV2TN
It will hit hard to EU,if this come true.
Schroeder
06-01-18, 08:31 AM
EU is a cry baby.
I remember you crying a lot about it so it must be true.:03:
Starting today, June 1st, 25 percent will be on steel and 10 percent for aluminum, as the US puts on the EU through these charges.
Skybird
06-01-18, 11:14 AM
"Spiel über Bande" - hitting the EU, but the real target is the German trade surplus.
Germany wants to shy away and hope for the best, these good-hearted hopers, but retaliation plus X is needed. And if Trump strikes against that, retaliate again, this time plus X*2. Where only force is understood, it needs force to make oneself understood.
Highbury
06-01-18, 11:27 AM
That tariff is also on Canada and Mexico, who have of course imposed tariffs of their own.
At least one consequence of this decision not sit well with the Trump base however, increased beer prices...
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-tariffs-beer-prices-aluminum-steel-828430
:Kaleun_Cheers:
Skybird
06-01-18, 11:47 AM
The EU's list of products at which to strike have been choosen since their production focusses in states with strong political followership of and senators supporting the Donald.
Or so the EU hopes at least. :hmmm:
None of the six German submarines is operational currently, since 18 months or longer. Too bad timing. :arrgh!:
Catfish
06-01-18, 03:43 PM
Pah when England declared war in 1939, Germany had nine operational submarines. And the new ones are even better (i mean, if they work :O:)
And who can take this talking turtle Wilbur Ross for serious?
Donald is still angry that his grandfather was denied a return to Germany, after he ran away from serving in the military.
Meanwhile we reacted with tarriffs on peanut butter. Take that, Donald!
But it is not as bad as it looks, i mean it is like in every marriage, now and then there are some bloody scraps, and murder... :O:
we reacted with tarriffs on peanut butter. Take that, Donald!
Well that should help the obesity problem we have. Have you seen the calories in that stuff! Oh wait a good idea from the EU...:o
The EU's list of products at which to strike have been choosen since their production focusses in states with strong political followership of and senators supporting the Donald.
Or so the EU hopes at least. :hmmm:
None of the six German submarines is operational currently, since 18 months or longer. Too bad timing. :arrgh!: None of the six German submarines is operational currently Why.:hmmm:
Schroeder
06-02-18, 05:50 AM
Why.:hmmm:
Missing spare parts. Our politicians made such awesome deals with the industry that we have no spare parts.
Skybird
06-02-18, 06:16 AM
^ Also a lack of maintenance capacities and a general underfunding of the armed services. Thats a constant in all branches of the services. I do not have the numbers in my head right now, but major shares of our tank fleet, IFVs, helicopters, interceptors and transports are not operational, too. Too few volunteers are coming, too. Last time I heard about the German contingent for that coming Easteuropean NATO force - where the Germans should lead, if I am not mistaken - had only three of the needed IFVs from the assigned brigade working. THREE!!!
Now with even more people avoiding the services, and development aid for third world countries partially now counted as military spendings to beautify the numbers, I do not see things getting better anytime soon. Also, the red socialists of the SPD have been given control of the finance ministry, and they are traditionally extremely Russophile and see no reason to be on guard against Russia. And Merkel does what she does best: nothing but sitting.
Thats what its all about these days: she could not become SED Staatsratsvorsitzende anymore, so she occupies the chancellory as a second prize.
Fact is she has nothing to say anymore. The power is where the control over finances is. But she has never really led to new shores anyway, only managed a stagnating status quo that was caused by others before her, and occasionally u-turning on some issue when her "authority" was in danger and public opinion swung. She is one of the most overestimated duds in politics I have ever seen anywhere. She would be nothing in history if on a national level she would not have flattened and suffocated everybody around her who could challenge her. An elephant in a room of so small dimensions that the grey skin squeezes out of the door and windows.
And the whole personnel regime in Berlin is like that. Totally disconnected from the realities the ordinary people have to live in. Problems grow dramatically. Law and order are it dramatic decline, with the government itself leading the competition of breaking the rules, Degrees of freedoms to react and counter the challenges, got intentionally given up, and additionally vanish by themselves, in the face of an overwhelming tide of problems, many of them them self-made, the rest being consequences of earlier self-made problems.
Say good-bye to world history and the stage of global relevance, Germany. You're done. And you want it.
As I mentioned earlier, so I had a completely different view 30 years ago and thought Germany's defense was good. But, of course, the times have changed, and I have realized that Merkel is a puppet in a country that exists, but has had big changes over the past 10 years, so just keep going and believe that the best thing comes to you.
em2nought
06-02-18, 08:24 AM
Why.:hmmm:
Because we shamed them for so long they became modern citizens of the world who aren't really into that sort of thing anymore. :03:
Because we shamed them for so long they became modern citizens of the world who aren't really into that sort of thing anymore. :03: LOL :Kaleun_Wink:
Jimbuna
06-02-18, 09:31 AM
Trump steel tariffs illegal, says UK's Liam Fox. So who gets to sort this mess out :hmmm:
The policy came into force on Friday, meaning anyone in the US importing the metals from the EU will have to pay an additional tax.
President Donald Trump said the move would protect US national security.
"Given that we export some pretty complex steel products to the United States which are part of their national security programmes themselves, this reasoning that is given is wrong and therefore we believe unlawful."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44341074
Skybird
06-02-18, 05:57 PM
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/sparringspartner_ts/22635620/2-format570.jpgDer Tagesspiegel
WHISTLER, British Columbia (Reuters) - Finance leaders of the closest U.S. allies vented anger over the Trump administration’s metal import tariffs on Saturday, ending a three-day meeting with a stern rebuke of Washington and setting up a heated fight at a G7 summit next week in Quebec.In a rare show of division among the normally harmonious club of wealthy nations, the six other G7 member countries issued a statement asking U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to convey their “unanimous concern and disappointment” about the tariffs to President Donald Trump.
The 25 percent steel and 10 percent aluminum tariffs were imposed this week on Mexico, Canada and the European Union after temporary exemptions expired.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-finance/g7-statement-mnuchin-asked-to-convey-unanimous-concern-and-disappointment-idUSKCN1IY0QL
I strongly doubt that they will reach another deal on these tariffs.
Catfish
06-03-18, 05:50 AM
They already call it the G6 +1 summit :haha:
Jimbuna
06-03-18, 06:03 AM
They already call it the G6 +1 summit :haha:
I call it another potential step toward isolationism.
Jimbuna
06-03-18, 07:28 AM
China has warned that all trade talks between Beijing and Washington will be void if the US sets up trade sanctions.
After talks between Vice Premier Liu He and US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, China said it was ready to boost imports from many countries.
Mr Ross's China visit comes days after Washington threatened to impose extra tariffs on $50bn of Chinese goods.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44346461
It would appear the Chinese are adapting to the current situation sooner rather than later and are communicating in the same tone as the US.
Catfish
06-03-18, 10:42 AM
"Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es heraus."
(german proverb)
Rockstar
06-03-18, 07:45 PM
https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20170211_EUD000_0.jpg :D
Germany's trade surplus is a problem. "what comes around goes around" - Some dead greek guy
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/ben-bernanke/2015/04/03/germanys-trade-surplus-is-a-problem/
Skybird
06-04-18, 04:50 AM
"Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es heraus."
(german proverb)
https://www.phrasen.com/uebersetze,Wie-man-in-den-Wald-hineinruft-so-schallt-es-heraus,3724,d.html
Skybird
06-04-18, 04:57 AM
https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20170211_EUD000_0.jpg :D
Germany's trade surplus is a problem. "what comes around goes around" - Some dead greek guy
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/ben-bernanke/2015/04/03/germanys-trade-surplus-is-a-problem/
It is. I say sionce years and years an economy that is so dependent on export like ours, is not strong, but a weak - dependent - economy.
The cartoon does nto fit, however, it refers not to exporting and productivity and cpompetitiveness, but saving. And regarding the ignorrance for saving, all the world ticks wrong and self-destructive. Most people do not even understand what saving means, they think saving already is not exaggerating it with credits. But saving means to practice abstinence from spending and consummation.And what has been saved this way, later gets invested or consumed, in bitter times, or when investments for somethign to grow are wanted.
BTW, the average wealth of Italian, Spanish and even Greek (!) private households is higher than in Germany! Also is beside Belgium also the highest-taxing nation in the West, and one of the highest taxing nations world-wide. That is because in Spain and Italy house and land property is far more common than in Germany.
Catfish
06-04-18, 07:16 AM
^ @Skybird Will you please stop and get back on track bashing Germany, for all? :O:
Seriously, if Trump (=the US) bashes Germany and wants to threaten them and the EU, while saying "the poor US economy" cannot keep up, what does this tell us?
Also good advice.. while proposals and diplomacy usually work well with Europe, big-mouthed threatening and trying to be a smart-ar§e might meet some resistance. Just saying.
Bilge_Rat
06-04-18, 10:31 AM
Trump steel tariffs illegal, says UK's Liam Fox. So who gets to sort this mess out :hmmm:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44341074
countries can file a complaint to the WTO or some other international agency and if they are right, they will eventually get some sort of favorable ruling in 3-5 years which the U.S. will ignore.
This is standard negotiating tactic for the U.S., it did not start with Trump.
Canada has had numerous trade fights with the U.S. over canadian lumber exports to the U.S. It always plays out the same, the U.S. will slap duties on canadian lumber, Canada will say it is illegal under NAFTA (which it is), Canada will obtain favorable rulings under the NAFTA tribunals, the U.S. will ignore the rulings and eventually Canada and the U.S. will work out a deal where Canada will pay a fine, agree to limit lumber exports for x years and the U.S. will lift the duties.
so yes, it is a shakedown. Trump will get what he wants since no country wants to lose access to the U.S. market.
Jimbuna
06-04-18, 12:20 PM
My concern is the possibility that US allies will edge closer to Russia and China in some form or other, after all, the US cannot outweigh 'the rest'.
Bilge_Rat
06-04-18, 04:15 PM
My concern is the possibility that US allies will edge closer to Russia and China in some form or other, after all, the US cannot outweigh 'the rest'.
you always hear that refrain whenever someone is upset over some U.S. action, but the reality is that Chinese or Russian "trade" practices and 10x or 100X worse that anything the U.S. could ever come up with.
No one who actually has his own money invested in a business actually believes that.
I hope they will find a solution, will be a benefit for everyone.
When I read and heard about this tariffs on European steel and aluminum
I suddenly remembered an episode of a dramatization made from a war game.
In this episode a serious diplomatic crisis had arisen between USA and Europe.
Remember some scene from this episode.
French special forces are deployed in French Quebec. USA protest against this. Canada say they have the right.
Two F14A is intercepted by English and Danish fighter jets around Greenland. A sort of a dogfight happens-No fire have been fired, but one of the F14 is damage and they both return.
An American civil flight is refused to land on De Gaulle and other European airport.. it crash when it has no more fuel.
Don't think it will go so far.
Markus
Markus
Jimbuna
06-05-18, 05:47 AM
The escalating dispute could drive firms in Mexico, EU and Canada to buy steel and aluminum elsewhere and retaliate with targeted tariffs on US goods.
Once the retaliatory measures were put in place, the situation could backfire for Trump and end up hurting American producers.
Bilge_Rat
06-05-18, 10:24 AM
The escalating dispute could drive firms in Mexico, EU and Canada to buy steel and aluminum elsewhere and retaliate with targeted tariffs on US goods.
Once the retaliatory measures were put in place, the situation could backfire for Trump and end up hurting American producers.
if it lasts for years, yes.
but I view this just as a negotiating tactic that will get resolved in a matter of weeks. Trump wants to get concessions out of Canada and Mexico on NAFTA so he can claim victory and leverage that in the november mid-term election.
Again, this did not start with Trump. Ever since the original NAFTA was signed between Canada and the U.S. back in the late 80s, many american politicians felt the US gave away too much to Canada in the trade deal.
The canadian and U.S. economy are too closely integrated to be disentangled. Many Canadian politicians over the years have tried to push policies to lessen the dependence of Canada on the U.S., but it does not make economic sense.
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union expects to hit U.S. imports with additional duties from July, ratcheting up a transatlantic trade conflict after Washington imposed its own tariffs on incoming EU steel and aluminum.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-eu/eu-plans-to-hit-u-s-imports-with-duties-from-july-idUSKCN1J2146
Probably only the beginning of the tariffs.
Bilge_Rat
06-06-18, 02:03 PM
ok...Trump explaining to PM Trudeau how he can justify imposing tariffs under a "national security" statute:
According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html
Platapus
06-06-18, 03:55 PM
According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.
https://memeguy.com/photos/images/you-made-them-go-psychedelic-13101.jpg
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Skybird
06-06-18, 04:04 PM
EU fears that deliverers of stzeel and aluminium to the US now will redirect their dleiveries and flood the European market with them, poutting European prodcuers of both under pressure.
2.6 bn in retaliatory tarrifs will go live next month, with Brussel threatening to add another 3.6 bn in additonal tarrifs until 2021. What takes them so long?
Trumps second strike aims at European cars, which means he wants to take Germany out of the equation, so to speak - for Germany, a targetted strike at cars means the same like a targetted strike at US weapons, arms, IT and internet companies. Its the economical core domain. Germany struggling with its boom due to dropping car exports means economic and fiscal turmoil. Bad for Germany. Bad for the EU. Good for the US.
Its amazing that some people still think that Europe and America are "allies". I do not see them as that anymore since quite some time now. Already since before Trump. Future historians maybe will already see 2003 as the cesura.
Jimbuna
06-07-18, 09:20 AM
ok...Trump explaining to PM Trudeau how he can justify imposing tariffs under a "national security" statute:
According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html
You just couldn't make this stuff up :)
Could you? :hmmm:
Highbury
06-07-18, 02:57 PM
Trumps second strike aims at European cars, which means he wants to take Germany out of the equation, so to speak - for Germany, a targetted strike at cars means the same like a targetted strike at US weapons, arms, IT and internet companies. Its the economical core domain. Germany struggling with its boom due to dropping car exports means economic and fiscal turmoil. Bad for Germany. Bad for the EU. Good for the US.
I wonder if he plans to block the import of BMWs from South Carolina, or Mercedes from Alabama? I believe he only mentioned luxury cars, so the Mercedes van plant in South Carolina should be safe for now... :hmmm:
As for his war of 1812 comment, he knows history about as well as he knows the words to God Bless America.
LONDON (Reuters) - World stocks slipped on Friday as expectations that trade tensions will dominate this weekend’s summit of G7 countries and renewed talk of monetary tightening by major central banks weighed on risk sentiment.
The MSCI All-Country World index .MIWD00000PUS, which tracks shares in 47 countries, was down nearly half a percent by afternoon in Europe, although it was still on track to break a three-week streak of losses. Futures indicated Wall Street was set to open lower. ESc1 NQc1>
Fears of a trade war, expectations of more rate hikes in the United States, and the prospect that the European Central Bank will soon signal a winding-down of its massive monetary stimulus all contributed to the risk-off tone, investors said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets/world-stocks-dip-as-central-bank-talk-trade-dull-risk-appetite-idUSKCN1J400B
The tones get harder.
Jimbuna
06-09-18, 10:10 AM
Talks at the G7 summit in Canada have failed to resolve deep differences between US President Donald Trump and leaders of major industrial nations.
The divisions were laid bare on Friday, notably over trade.
Allies of the US are furious over Mr Trump's recent decision to impose tariffs on steel and aluminium imports, raising fears of a global trade war.
It is unclear whether a communique agreed by all will be released when the meeting concludes later on Saturday.
The two-day summit is being held in the town of La Malbaie, in Quebec province.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44423072
Is it just me or is Trump hell bent on peeing off allies and friends of the US? :hmmm:
Torvald Von Mansee
06-09-18, 03:39 PM
Has Trump started tariffs against Russia?
Platapus
06-09-18, 03:44 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44423072
Is it just me or is Trump hell bent on peeing off allies and friends of the US? :hmmm:
Trump does not seem to recognize allies of the US but only allies of Trump
Mr Quatro
06-09-18, 10:40 PM
Trump does not seem to recognize allies of the US but only allies of Trump
When did Platapus start telling the truth? :D
Schroeder
06-10-18, 03:36 AM
When did Platapus start telling the truth? :D
On this forum in October 2006.:03::O:
Skybird
06-10-18, 04:38 AM
The Donald's foreign policy all is about domestic policy back at home. The world is just a screen on which the domestic policy gets projected like a movie. The starry-eyed audience is the Donaldarianized voter base. Oscars for best actor, best director, best screenplay writer, best camera man, best soundtrack composer and best special effects all go to the Donald.
Schroeder
06-10-18, 04:46 AM
He certainly has a tendency to come across like this:
https://s6.postimg.cc/j03l35uj5/CGXYthd.jpg
Rockstar
06-10-18, 06:27 AM
hold on to your bootstraps Europe the market must crash.
http://crude-oil.news/goldman-if-trump-wants-to-win-a-trade-war-the-market-has-to-crash/
Onkel Neal
06-10-18, 08:36 AM
On this forum in October 2006.:03::O:
:haha:
Jimbuna
06-10-18, 09:29 AM
I'm beginning to think that the only countries he is fearful wary of are Russia and China.
Platapus
06-10-18, 09:50 AM
On this forum in October 2006.:03::O:
I am flattered. Thank you.
Schroeder
06-10-18, 03:16 PM
I am flattered. Thank you.
I don't think I remember ever having read a BS post by you.:salute:
(ok, enough sucking up this topic was about tariffs)
Catfish
06-10-18, 03:51 PM
He certainly has a tendency to come across like this: edit picture removed, see here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2556780&postcount=47)
I.. how did i miss this.. i mean his hair sure looks better now, but..
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2: :up:
And dto. regarding Platapus.
Although he makes wayyy too much sense for us here :O:
No seriously, i agee :)
em2nought
06-10-18, 06:21 PM
He certainly has a tendency to come across like this:
Sit me down across from "her" and I'd look like that too.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftothedeathmedia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FMerkelMeme.jpg&f=1
Rockstar
06-10-18, 08:53 PM
Ummm, if the U.S. were fearful and wary of Russia and China, wouldn't we huddle with and bend which ever way the wind blows like the E.U.? Oh ya that reminds me. Speaking of being wary, afraid and bending over all the while putting on a show of 'unity against Russia' aaaand money before human rights.
German companies have invested more than 20 billion in Russia, which also provides about 30 per cent of Germany’s gas (however, only 3 per cent of German exports go to Russia). The Committee on Eastern European Economic Relations, a body that represents German industry, has lobbied the German government against EU sanctions on Russia throughout the Ukraine crisis.
Berlin has often been reluctant to criticise Russia and China on human rights. Over the past few years, German policy on Russia has evolved, at least at the level of rhetoric, to become more critical, but the same cannot be said of its China policy. Germany’s commercial priorities were evident in the summer of 2013, when Merkel received Chinese leaders in Berlin and then visited them in Beijing. German solar-panel manufacturers had complained to the European Commission about Chinese panels being dumped on EU markets. The Commission had investigated and was threatening China with penalties. China then warned the EU about possible retaliation against exports of polysilicon (a material for solar panels) and luxury cars, which would have hit Germany. The German government criticised the Commission and undermined it by leaning on other member-states to oppose a tough response to the alleged dumping. As a result the Commission backed down.
... Rhetorically, Merkel’s tough words on Russia in recent months have positioned Germany close to the middle. As for a possible shift on substance, it is too early to tell where Germany will end up. The pressures on Germany to remain Russia’s special friend in Europe – from business, sections of the SPD (as well as some Christian Democrats) and much of public opinion – are immense.
http://www.cer.eu/insights/what-wrong-german-foreign-policy
Lets not forget all those Euros to be made in Iran while they build their nukes.
This insanity is unbelievable....market share of German cars in the US is around 7 %...so yes, they 'flooding' the market, for sure....
Old Donald 'forgets' that if corporate earnings and services (IT etc.) come into play, the deficit is on the EU side.
U.S. President Donald Trump fired off a volley of tweets on Monday venting anger on NATO allies, the European Union and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in the wake of a divisive G7 meeting over the weekend.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit/fair-trade-fool-trade-trumps-tweets-spew-ire-on-nato-allies-trudeau-idUSKBN1J70CN
What trampling and twittering.:O:
Cant stand that virtue signalling rich kid Trudeau.
I need a sick bag every time he speaks.
Hypocrite too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQxmCh81CA
Skybird
06-13-18, 04:41 AM
http://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-accuses-us-of-running-trade-surplus-if-trade-calculations-are-updated/a-44191962
German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday struck back at US President Donald Trump's repeated complaints over the US trade deficit (http://www.dw.com/en/tariffs-eu-caught-between-desire-for-retaliation-and-calm/a-44046913).
Merkel said the United States actually runs a current account surplus with Europe — if services are factored into the equation.
She went on to say that the current accounting systems for global trade needed to be updated to also take services into account (http://www.dw.com/en/germany-could-get-caught-up-in-trade-turmoil/a-43284271).
"Trade surpluses are calculated in a relatively old-fashioned way nowadays," she told an audience of businessmen at the Christian Democratic Union's Economic Council Conference in Berlin. "If services are included in the trade balance, then the US runs a big surplus with Europe. And the share of services will only grow."
Several German economists have long made similar arguments.
The chancellor also said German direct investment into the US was significantly higher than the other way around.
(...)
While Merkel did not mention what studies she based her figures on, statistics from the US and EU show including services in global accounting would lower the US deficit with Europe but not eliminate it.
A country's current account measures the difference between how much a country sends and receives in terms of goods, services and other payments. According to the EU's statistical office, the US had a €200 billion ($234.7 billion) current account deficit with the EU in 2017.
In terms of good and services trade alone, the latest available figures from the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) show:
The US trade deficit with the EU was $92 billion in 2016 when goods and services were both included in the calculation. The US exported $501 billion in goods and services to the EU and imported $592 billion.
Broken down, the US had a $137 billion deficit with the EU in the trade of goods alone. It exported $270 billion in goods and imported $416 billion.
In services trade, the US had a $55 surplus. It exported $231 billion and imported $176 billion.
The top services were in professional and management services, intellectual property, travel and education.
As I said in another thread, the side having a surplus will lose the trade war. Its just not that clear to me who is the one with the surplus.
Rockstar
06-13-18, 08:11 AM
I keep asking myself why?
I think one reason to threaten Europe, Canada etc etc is to sway them to issue sanctions against Iran again. Europe being driven by profit looks the other way and seems to not really mind what Iran is doing with their new found wealth.
China, as an article from CNBC puts it:
Most notably, the U.S. and others around the world have suffered at the hands of China's rampant intellectual property theft. From designer brand knockoffs to technological innovations to the secret sauce that so many companies use to make their brands special, China is notorious for the practice.
What the White House is doing that has caused so much commotion is taking a more aggressive approach than any of its predecessors to put that practice, and others like it, to an end.
The administration has announced a list of 1,300 Chinese products subject to a 25 percent tariff, a move that drew an immediate retaliation and sparked more fears of a protracted international commerce battle.
"People have known for some time that China has sought quite actively to acquire intellectual property through their relationships with foreign businesses," said Lewis Alexander, chief U.S. economist at Nomura Global Economics. "These are not new problems."
What is new is someone willing to push the argument far enough with China to threaten trading relationships.Then there's good ol' fashioned domestic politics.
Why is everyone in an uproar? Probably because we've been assured by our leaders all is well for so many many years. When in all actuality it hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows.
Jimbuna
06-13-18, 08:17 AM
Less than a couple of hours ago Trump tweeted "Oil prices are too high, OPEC is at it again. Not good!"
Onkel Neal
06-13-18, 10:28 AM
No, no, Trump is wrong, oil needs to keep going up, I'll be happy at $150/bbl
Catfish
06-13-18, 02:00 PM
Obvious that Dump does not need other allies because Kim is his new Buddy.
No, no, Trump is wrong, oil needs to keep going up, I'll be happy at $150/bbl
Sounds like a good number. At lest that high. You know for the good of the environment and all.....
Rockstar
06-13-18, 02:50 PM
Arent we the largest exporter of oil these days? Hell ya 150 is a great number.
Platapus
06-13-18, 06:13 PM
I am sure that oil at 150 a barrel will have a significant effect on our economy
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Fears of tariffs and a potential global trade war have jostled U.S. stocks over the past few months, but there is a sense among investors that the market is taking the drum beat of rhetoric and statements more in stride.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-stocks-graphic/wall-street-builds-immunity-to-trade-war-rhetoric-idUSKBN1JB2YL
And an escalation is to wait.
Trump will probably be stuck, in its tariff, even if it affects workers and businesses at home.
Times running out,soon the new tariff will be IRL.
It may not come to this, but if it does
Can USA fight a Trade war on two front ?
(Against EU and against China)
Markus
Rockstar
06-21-18, 02:30 PM
It may not come to this, but if it does
Can USA fight a Trade war on two front ?
(Against EU and against China)
Markus
The E.U. = shameless blowhards easily overcome because all they have are good intentions and everyone knows where that path leads too. They're a push over and have enough internal issues of their own doing. They can't afford to start getting uppity.
Now China that may be another story far in the future. But right now they have little in the way of production geared towards domestic financial security. Their GDP relies heavily on exports as does the common chinese workers income. So I think they come to negotiate soon. Heck they already offered 70 billion to stop the impending trade war, we told them to pack sand.
I think it was in post #48 that Trump said might be a little painful but in the end it will be better for the U.S.
All I can say to that is: I hope so.
Skybird
06-21-18, 03:19 PM
The Donald does not count services when claiming a European trade surplus, and it is right these services where the US score very, very heavily. If the EU would launch penalty tarrifs on this segment of business and target US services with penalty tarrifs, then it would become as hurting for the US as it may become for Europe. Maybe even more.
The question is whether or not Brussels has the balls to do this.
Jimbuna
06-22-18, 05:37 AM
The Donald does not count services when claiming a European trade surplus, and it is right these services where the US score very, very heavily. If the EU would launch penalty tarrifs on this segment of business and target US services with penalty tarrifs, then it would become as hurting for the US as it may become for Europe. Maybe even more.
The question is whether or not Brussels has the balls to do this.
They're currently too engrossed in trying to punish the UK and set an example to deter other member states who may be thinking of leaving.
ikalugin
06-22-18, 07:07 AM
I think this crisis was summarised by one US official back in 2014 or so:
" the EU"
Rockstar
06-22-18, 06:01 PM
That was Victoria lamenting over the E.U. dragging its feet over sanctions against the Ukraine. However that's not what really surprised us. What surprised us was Russian intelligence services taped and released the conversation. :o:)
Russia has its finger almost everywhere.:hmmm:
Update:https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/06/22/eu-fights-back-against-us-tariffs.html
ikalugin
06-24-18, 03:15 AM
That was Victoria lamenting over the E.U. dragging its feet over sanctions against the Ukraine. However that's not what really surprised us. What surprised us was Russian intelligence services taped and released the conversation. :o:)
Well this thread implies that this is a bit of a more general sentiment within the US foreighn policy right now.
And the US exceptionalism in general.
Catfish
06-24-18, 06:12 AM
Update:https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/06/22/eu-fights-back-against-us-tariffs.html
Couldn't the EU create import bans against political stupidity :hmmm:
Couldn't the EU create import bans against political stupidity :hmmm:I wish they have even more flexible will.:hmmm:
Skybird
06-24-18, 06:17 AM
Couldn't the EU create import bans against political stupidity :hmmm:
I think we have so much of that ourselves that our only hope is to export it.
I think we have so much of that ourselves that our only hope is to export it.:haha:
Rockstar
06-24-18, 06:37 AM
leading German think tank says Donald Trump is right that tariffs between the United States and Europe are asymmetrical, but urges negotiations to lower import taxes across the board.
https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/trump-may-point-eu-tariffs-ifo-says-899083
And beginning negotiations was the sole purpose of these tariffs. The E.U. refused to willingly come off their high horse and negotiate. They were warned of tariffs then saw fit to ignore it. Now its realizing it wasn't just a threat.
Donald Tusk, the president of the European Commission, joined the fray, warning in a tweet that “the truth is trade wars are bad and easy to lose.There appears to be one smart guy left in the E.U.
I guess whats appealing too me about this move is a President (like him or not) who is looking out for his own nation instead of going on an apology tour bowing to kings and queens.
Donald's policy will strike back on domestic vendors, and other actors who are dependent on new goods that are not in their own country.
Rockstar
06-24-18, 08:55 AM
And the stubbornness of the E.U. and refusal to negotiate will strike back on domestic vendors, and other actors who are dependent on new goods that are not in their own country.
Hence the term 'Trade War' :)
And the stubbornness of the E.U. will strike back on domestic vendors, and other actors who are dependent on new goods that are not in their own country.
Hence the term 'Trade War'I really hope that there will not be a full-scale trade war.
And the stubbornness of the E.U. and refusal to negotiate will strike back on domestic vendors, and other actors who are dependent on new goods that are not in their own country.
It will hurt both sides, but the big difference is that while the EU and other countries have placed tariffs on finished products that are not necessary for the consumer and for which there are other options to buy, the US on the other hand placed tariffs on raw materials that it needs and cannot supply on its own at the moment. Doesn't sound like a very strong position to start a trade war from. :hmmm:
As for negotiations, I don't know if there were any proposed agreements for the EU, but the NAFTA proposition was hugely favoring the US had it been agreed on. That's not any more fair than the current agreements. Trump is only interested in winning, there is no other option for him. Let's see how that works out. :yeah:
Skybird
06-24-18, 10:25 AM
The EU has offered, last but not least under pressure from Germany, renegotiations and easing of existing tarrifs.
Whether the US has higher tarrifs on EU goods or the EU had higher tarrifs on US goods, can be endlessly debated. What Trump does not say is that the trade surplus of Europe that he talks of, is only one half of the truth. Non-material economy, namely IT licenses, and service businesses also count, here US companies are global super powers (MS, Google, Apple and the likes), but he ignores these, knowing that the US scores very heavily here. If these get counted as well, then it is the US that most likely has a trade surplus.
In the end, what Trump really is after, are two things. First, pleasing his fans: "See, I hunt the EU dragon and slay it, there!" Second, and that is far more important, he wants to weaken Europe'S negotiation position by dividing it and replacing the EU as the US only negotiation partner with a series of single nations with much weaker position each, who he then can dictate better terms and conditions in US-nation talks instead of US-EU talks. Shatter the block, and then pick up the pieces, that could be named as his motto.
A third effect he may be after, is the indirect weakening of the EU economy by making the fiscal engine of the EU, Germany, stutter. Damaging the car industry means damaging the core industry of Germany (as if you would do a similar attack to the US computer and software industry), Germany is very vulnerable there. A struggling Germany means a struggling EU.
Trump only sometimes tells rightout lies, he prefers to mix some lies with some half-truths, or to tell only half the truth and hide the other half that is more uncomfortable for his claims. In this he indeed is quite clever. What does not mean that he could be trusted any better.
Avoiding a trade war? The war is already there. He almost pearl-harboured Europe, Germany.
Rockstar
06-24-18, 11:22 AM
I know its campaign promises and politics geared towards the next election. But still, I like it better than apology tours.
Unfortunately you all already have enough home grown problems of your own sorry for compounding them, NOT. :D
https://global.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/mm.jpg
It will hit hard to EU,if this come true.
Cry me a river....
Anyway, of all the things hitting the EU hard at the moment this one is relatively minor.
ikalugin
06-25-18, 09:50 AM
If you were EUropean I would ask you if you have the license for that pic.
Harley-Davidson to move some production out of U.S. to avoid EU tariffs (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-tariffs/harley-davidson-to-move-some-production-out-of-u-s-to-avoid-eu-tariffs-idUSKBN1JL185)
(Reuters) - Harley-Davidson Inc (HOG.N (https://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=HOG.N)) said on Monday it would move production of motorcycles shipped to the European Union from the United States to its international facilities and forecast the trading bloc’s retaliatory tariffs would cost the company $90 million to $100 million a year.
#MAGA :yep:
Rockstar
06-25-18, 10:59 AM
Like VW, Mercedes, and BMW opened 80 or so factories to the United States. Forced globalization :D
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