Did he crash or was he shot down?

[Jimbuna]

Found this article this morning and it certainly got me wondering but I doubt the truth will ever come out :hmmm:

My own gut feeling is that the plane crashed.

In 1969, at the height of the Cold War, a mechanic in the US Air Force stole a Hercules plane from his base in East Anglia and set off for the States. Just under two hours later, he disappeared suddenly over the English Channel. Did he simply crash or was he shot down?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43800089

[Schroeder]

My own gut feeling is that the plane crashed.


Likewise.

[GoldenRivet]

Between competing hypotheses the one that makes the fewest assumptions tends to be correct.

either:

an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated, and crashed the aircraft in the vicinity of decreasing cloud coverage and visibility.

or:

an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated; and the United States Air Force, realized that the aircraft he chose to steal was part of a critical, clandestine CIA operation. The aircraft had been left unguarded on the hardstand, while containing top secret documents, code books and other secretive information critical to national defense and security. In response to this realization, the USAF scrambled jets to shoot down the stolen aircraft.

seems pretty obvious.

frankly he's lucky he made it 90 minutes into the trip if you ask me.

I remember the first time i flew a large, turbine powered multi engine aircraft. I was a flight instructor with over 1,000 hours flight experience at the time. It was like trying to drink from a fire hose. and i wasn't flying at tree top level to avoid radar, after having one too many drinks at a party just hours before.

[Platapus]

A few questions

1. How far is it from where he started to where he wanted to fly to?

2. What is the endurance distance of a C-130?

3. Is it even possible for one person to complete the duties of pilot and Flight Engineer to get the C-130 properly set up for long distance travel? It is an awesome aircraft, but hardly self-flying.

4. The ground crew might be dumb enough to fuel a C-130 based on a phone call, but how did this individual gain access to the aircraft while on the flight line? When I was in the AF, no one just walked up to a military aircraft on a hot pad with out a lot of ID. Also how did he get clearance to take off without a filed flight plan?

Anyone who has spent any time in the military knows that there is paper work involved for everything! There is even paper work for the paper work. :03:

Were things that lax during 69?

[GoldenRivet]

1. How far is it from where he started to where he wanted to fly to?

far. like really far. Something on the order of 3-4,000 nautical miles

2. What is the endurance distance of a C-130?

semi-far... about 2500 nautical miles. hope he is a strong swimmer

3. Is it even possible for one person to complete the duties of pilot and Flight Engineer to get the C-130 properly set up for long distance travel? It is an awesome aircraft, but hardly self-flying.

possible, yes. but even well trained, extraordinarily motivated crew members would probably find it to be a challenge. especially if low weather, failures or other encumbrances were to be encountered.

4. The ground crew might be dumb enough to fuel a C-130 based on a phone call, but how did this individual gain access to the aircraft while on the flight line? When I was in the AF, no one just walked up to a military aircraft on a hot pad with out a lot of ID. Also how did he get clearance to take off without a filed flight plan?

some towers are closed at night, perhaps this one was too? or perhaps he poured the coals to it and threw caution to the wind which is what alerted the USAF to the problem in the first place "hey its the tower calling, is this the base CO? cool, thought you might like to know one of your aircraft just flew the Leroy Jenkins 4 departure procedure." etc

[Schroeder]

Guys, you are totally missing the most obvious scenario:








https://s6.postimg.cc/9mviecyjl/9189283.jpg


:O:

[Jimbuna]

Good questions and answers gents but the facts are, he managed to get aboard and take off and I should imagine the consequences for some will have been severe to say the least.

I mean, it's not every day something like this happens, is it? :hmmm:

[Eichhörnchen]

It doesn't say what kind of mechanic he was... would he not have been a specialist in just one aspect (i.e. engines) and therefore not familiar at all with the other sophisticated systems of this giant modern plane, such as avionics or just plain management? He might not have even known about the need for switching across fuel tanks and pumps, for example.

So it's not hard to see how he might quickly become overwhelmed... trying to control all of these different systems himself... as though he were flying a single-seater, which he was not.

I think it's most likely that, as an individual, he just became unable to cope with the compounding tasks of flying this enormous aircraft.

[GoldenRivet]

as the saying goes, aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, but not unlike the sea, it is incredibly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

to say that he was careless, incapacitated and neglectful to some degree would be an understatement

[Eichhörnchen]

I've just done a fag-packet calculation... assuming my idea that he didn't know how to switch from the now empty fuel tank no.1

Tank no.1 (in the wing) held about 7200lbs of fuel which, divided by 6, = 1200 gallons. This would give a range of 705.88 miles (empty cargo) or 324.32 miles (full load) working on the info I found online, which quotes 1.7 gal pm and 3.7 gal pm respectively. Well we don't know at all from the article how the aircraft was loaded, but the distance to where the wreckage was found, looking at their map, is a little over 300 miles...... he maybe just ran out of gas

[Platapus]

far. like really far. Something on the order of 3-4,000 nautical miles



semi-far... about 2500 nautical miles. hope he is a strong swimmer




First of all, thank you for answering my questions. I have confidence that you know of what you post on this matter.

Secondary question. The range of the C-130 is, as you posted, 2,500. In this context what does range mean?

1. One way ferrying distance - point A to Point B
2. Max range that will allow the aircraft to turn around and get back to where it departed - Point A back to Point A

[GoldenRivet]

First of all, thank you for answering my questions. I have confidence that you know of what you post on this matter.

Secondary question. The range of the C-130 is, as you posted, 2,500. In this context what does range mean?

1. One way ferrying distance - point A to Point B
2. Max range that will allow the aircraft to turn around and get back to where it departed - Point A back to Point A

"range" is just point A to B. Radius would be point A to furthest point away from A and then turn back with sufficient fuel considering outside factors and return safely to A. on a map, due to wind radius is almost always egg shaped with (generally) the dull side of the egg on the west, and the tapered side of the egg pointing east.

the figures provided were approximate of course pulled from sources online since i dont know much anything about the C-130, but I do have a friend who is a C-130 aircraft commander, according to him, the C130 would be able to fly non stop from the UK to the eastern most areas of the USA. but careful planning and consideration would have to be given to any transatlantic trip. additionally, reaching the Carolinas would be questionable if flown directly from the UK, however it would be plausible only if numerous operational parameters fell perfectly into place.

[August]

I'm guessing he left the cockpit to take a leak and the stick holding the yoke steady slipped. The rest was history.