Monster in a human body

[Skybird]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43196397

Soul-eating pervert psychopath, not one bit different from his enemies. Our ally. We can be proud.

[Jimbuna]

I'd certainly agree with those who are calling it child abuse added to the fact the young girl is clearly showing signs of distress.

[Catfish]

Since the EU like the NATO is also about values, maybe we should meanwhile think of expelling Erdoghan's Turkey.
But there just was that weapon deal.. "The wider program could see the UK win contracts to provide engines, weapons, radars and sensors." (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/28/theresa-may-signs-100m-fighter-jet-deal-with-turkeys-erdogan) :yeah:
I guess brexit has to be financed, somehow. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

You missed out one of the headers in the title.

Prime minister also uses last leg of diplomatic tour to issue warning to Turkish president to respect human rights obligations

[Skybird]

You missed out one of the headers in the title.
Thats is drivel, Jim, or do your diplomats rewalyl think such appeals have any meaning to Turkey? It slike Germna diplomats teling Tuzrkey that the stellkar amount of weapjns and platform we dleivered Turkey should never be use din any confpölict with Kurdish groups.

It sonly a quesiton of time until Germany will allow that German companies will equip Turkey Leo-2A4's with better mine and missile protection, and German know-how being sold to Turkey so that they can build their own new MBT.

Its all diplomatic lies and drivel.

Of course Assad is not to be preferred, its just that assad does all the brutal, unscrupulous stuff needed to win him this war, so do the Russians, and thats why they are winning. Its easy to idenjtity Assad as a rithless villain, he does not hide it. He and the Russians, they have no remorse to let their masks fall for war victory. But we act as if Turkey and Erdoghan are any better, are more "civilized" and closer to what we claim to be our "values". We enoble the one monster, and condemn the other monster, while both are just the same monsters. The Turks are not one bit better that the Syrians and Russians, Erdoghan is not one bit better than Assad or Saddam. They are all the same breed of monsters. "He may be a son of a bitch, but he is OUR son of a bitch", is just rhethoric drivel as well. And we, the West, paralyse ourselves due to our obeidence to falling to a paradigm of illusory assuming that the Hague landwarfare convention has been generally accepted and that the strategems postulated by Clausewith would be true and of any meaning amongst these foreign cultures.

I recommend the early chapters in John Keegan's "The History of Warfare", where he goes with strong effort after the deconstruction of the myths about how correct Clausewitz should have been. He wasn't - already in his own time he was not.

[Catfish]

Of course mindset may change, but at least for now this is the right gesture at the right time

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-halts-plans-to-upgrade-turkeys-leopard-tanks/a-42305167

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-halts-weapons-exports-to-parties-in-yemen-conflict/a-42229376

[Skybird]

Your forget two things, Catfish.

First, temporary stops of arms deliveries there have been nefore, in the past decades. And they all got continued sooner or later. Turkey is a "NATO partner". Turkey is "a friend". Turkey is "needed" . And our beloved great leader, the great Angela Merkel, has lead Europe and Germany much deeper into dependency from Erdoghan than one wouldd have imagined before 2015.

Second, the article you linked to, is over 4 weeks old - but Denis Yücel meanwhile got released. According to diplomats' logic this means: now its Germany's turn to do something for Erdoghan. For we must improve ties and keep on talking, talking, talking. There is nothing that cannot be negotiated about, have you already forgotten? Also, there is pressure from Washington on Germany to play nicely with Erdoghan.

That is the same Washington that over half a century ago blackmailed an unwilling Germany to accept a Gastarbeiter-agreement with Turkey that at that time nobody in Germany wanted. The Turks where the last ones arriving, in the years before other nations and Germany signed such treaties: Spain, Italy, Yugoslavia, Greece. Thjese were the ones Germany wanted - but Turkey was not wanted by Germany: the SPD (yes, the SPD...:) ) said the cultural gap could not be bridged and that Turkey is not compatible with Western values. Washington wanted that treaty nevertheless, for it was Turkey's price for accepting further American missiles on its territory, stationed in Turkey: "Tell the Germans to comply with our demand to unload our loads of poor Anatolians onto them, or you can base your damn missiles somewhere else!" And so Washington showed the post-war Germans who was in ultimate command.

A story not often told, and mostly forgotten and ignored, most do not know it. But its true.

Erdoghan will get his Leo-kits and ugrades, and he will get his wanted German assistance for building a Turkish MBT industry. Just give it time. Its politicians you put your trust in. And that should tell you everything you need to know about their iron vows. Politicians will never be something else than just politicians.