VR the champions of the world?

[Skybird]

Not sure whether to put this here, in PC subforum, or in other games forum.

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Thought I start this thread as an attractor and centrepoint for comments on VR: your estimations, guesses, wishes, and also your experiences with VR software and games.

I am about to dip my toe into VR space soon. I will use an Oculus due to its price, which is now constantly fixed at 450 Euros including two Rift handles. This is still not cheap, but affordable, at least much more affordable than the HTC Vive costing twice as much, plus periphals needed, maybe. Oculus also is said to have the more immersive controllers, and slightly better visual quality. Currently.

I think VR will not automatically be revolutionizing all and evertyhing, it still could fail (once again), and then come back in 15-20 years and try again. However, the visual quality for the first time ever is such that it could become market penetrating in the long haul for sure. But certain that is still not, imo.

Two arguments against that.

First, the target audience currently are players. And players want quick and fast entertainment. Setting up the neede dhardware and software, often is described by peoppe as anythign but a breeze, its not simply plug and play, but time consuming fine-.tuning, so say quite soem people. Added to this is the complication of having too many standardfs already that only in some parts work with each other but mostkly seem to work not with each other.

This leads to point 2: developing for VR, is complicated and needs quite uge ressources, if you want to do the rela blicbuster games in VR. Bethesda'S success in trying that with fallout and Skyrim VR, needs to be waited for and see in a couple of weeks. Some hope for th eVR killerapp that ius needed to poush the tehcnology, and Bethesda is a heavyweight in business. Which means if they fail to meet sales expectations, and pull out of VR, evberybody will notice - and this could send two torpedoes with extra-huge warheads into the side of this still tiny little merchant floating. Sony has said recently, that they were suroprised by how well their Playstation headsets did sell, over 1.2 million pices so far, but the Vive sold just 400 thousand, and Oculus 250 thousand.

VR could win this battle. But it still is far away from victory. Success is anythign but certain, me thinks. Coudl also be that we weill see two very different stories being written with two different outcomes for PC, and console.

The dizziness many people report after longer sessions in VR, speaks against titles being used in VR that do movement in ways that challenge the brain too much. Quick movement on legs in fluid sequences, like you get with your 2D WASD-Mouse- style of gameplay, may maybe forever suffer form this handicap - if so, this could become a real dealbreaker for VR. Movement via telepprting however is a real immersioj breaker imo, also hampers gameplay and pre3vents certain, more elaborated, tactcial ways of mvojg your avatar in an open world sandbox game or a shooter.

Which means that the use of VR is no automatic option all the way, with all games and genres. I thiunk in some genres it simply does not work well - can never can work well. VRT headsets are no holodecks.

Early this month the news came in that the developer of EVE, the Iceland company CCD, has stopped and completedly withdrawn from VR development, and has laid off over 100 of staff. Their PS title EVE Valkyrie, a major blockbuster format, did not sell enough units for VR, it seems, they seem to think they cannot afford to go on with VR games. That is the first real big player already turning his back on VR again. And the question is how many people are willing to invest even 400-500 coins into a headgear when you can see that most racing fans still use gamepads instead of wheels on playstation racing games. Even ion PC, many play racing games via keyboards, you get asked for that time and again in racing forums (or gamepads). Yijn g players, kids, often cannot afford the costs of expensive FFB wheels (my Fanatec equipment costed almost 900 coins, and I am still on the cheaper side of things, money-wise...) or VR headsets. If companies see no monetarian priofit form investing inot VR, sooner or later their development for VR must and will stall. At least no major budget titles will ebdone then, leaving the field only to cheap and short meals for the little huinger in between. And that is a market that cannot endlessly compensate the player fpor the costs of a headset. Which will bckfire on sales on headsets, if no convincing titles show up. Its a mutually enforcing downward spiral, once it gets this far.

Me, I try VR mostly for right this: racing simulations like Assetto Corsa, one of my two or three dominant playing titles in the past 4 years. VR and racing, that is a natural combination, because you must not walk into the walls of your room or into your bookshelves, since the game environment demands that you sit still in a cockpit and press buttons only occassionally, and then blindly.

However, I can imagine that many other major game genres work not well with VR. Especially the very popular genre of FPS.

I have had a close eye on the offerijhngsw for VR games, and most do not attratc me, seem to be gimmicks and demos only to show some VR stuff, while having the player loosing interest quite soon.

Of the games that work in VR, I already own several, from playing them in 2D:

- Subnautica (I have high hopes for that one)
- Assetto Corsa (said to be a blast and a textbook exmaple for how great VR can work for players)
- Raceroom (I need to see what they mean the experience suffers since graphics are still DX9, Raceroom has the best looking tracks in business),
- Dirt Rally (said to be fantastic, though too brute force for newstarters in VR, causing them to vomit too easily :D )
- European Truck Simulator 2 (ATS has VR well).

I have set my eyes on

- Skyrim
- Fallout 4
- Sports Bar (for the Billiard and Air Hockey part in it, I love Air Hockey and was a top player in it in real life :), and I still play Virtual Pool 4 frequently, its sensationally realistic)
- Lone Echo
- Elite Dangerous
- IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad
- maybe Table Tennis :D

Further down the list are and not really convinced I am of

- Superhot
- Eagle Flight
- A Dr1ft
- Robo Recall
- The Climb
plus some stuff on the Playstation, but I will not get VR for PS as well, maybe consider these titles if they get transported to other platforms: "Everest" on mind, maybe.

I am also looking forward to Google Earth VR. My other main point of interest, beside racing in VR.

The dominant genre on my list, are racing titles, and this is what I am getting VR for in the main. I expect it to deliver the results I hope for. With other playing genres I have my doubts. And I want to filter out all that demo and gimmick stuff that currently dominates the VR market.

What you think? Have you experiences, tips, opinions, recommendations?

P.S. I just had to swallow. For a moment I imagined to stalk the huge hunting reserves in The Hunter, in 3D. Not planned AFAIK, but still - dreaming is allowed, or not? It would be ideal, due to the slow movement. Slow, gentle movement, or cockpit-bound fast movement is preferred in VR (movement not defined as gesticulating with pistol-holding hands and arms, but as travelling the space between points A and B).

[Skybird]

Hm. No reaction. VR may be the next big thing in business, but certainly not amongst subsimmers... :)

[August]

My flight sim friends like it. They say it gives one a much greater feeling of actually flying.

[Skybird]

Flight sims, like race sims, no doubt benefit from it, like they did benefit from TrackIR as well. The problem I see is that the sim titles' suitability is not always given. Complex button-pushing sims like DCS and PMDG I magine to be difficult or impossible to be run in 3D, if they were available. Simplified flight sims and pure dogfighters that have no more commands in need than what can be storedon the control buttons of your HOTAS and thus can be called up blindly, probably do very well. In principle. Performaqnce and graphcis details are the critical variables.

I plan for IL-2 Battle for Stalingrad, therefore, which has this open VR support that is kind of generic and platform-unspecific. However I hear and read that it works much better with Oculus, than with Vive.

[Skybird]

On the other hand...

https://flyinside-fsx.com/

that would be my dream: Being inside the cockpit of a PMDG B737-800NGX. In real 3D. I know the module from FSX, with TrackIr, its photo-realistic and super complex, a highlight if not THE highlight in my flightsimming biography.

Such handling may be managable when time is no issue. When you need to run thorugh operaitonal procedures qwuickly, however, I can imagine there might show up ergonomic problems.

Pr3pared 4.0 comes with inbuild VR support, I read. I did not know that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=101&v=pfut5RCroYo

Its slow. Ideal it would be with mouse and mousewheelsupport, as in TrackIR. If that works (it is included, but I do not know how well it works), then this is a package to be put on the list.

In general, in other game genres as well, I probably would prefer to have WASD-control and mouse control, instead of using Rift or PS or Vive Controllers. Walking in the room and doing arm gymnasticsis not my focus of interest in VR. Visual 3D perception exclusively is. Preferrably while staying seated.

[Gerald]

How much does the equipment cost?

[Skybird]

Very good and sober video, do not be misled because of the game he uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-UR3FVH1E

[Skybird]

How much does the equipment cost?

The Oculus with two handles costs 450 coins now in Germany, its not just a sales price, but now is regular price. They did not sell as many as the Vive or Playstation, so they had to react. As I said in the first post, ealy htis years they had sold some 250 thousand, while Vive has sold 420 thosuand, and Sony got surprised themselves by passing the 1 million barrier for their PS4 device already.

[SS Norholm]

Hi Skybird.

Yeah it's all interesting and promising eh.

I tried an Occulus Rift at The Flight Sim show in 2015, I'm sure they've come on leaps and bounds since then, but it was very blurry graphics at the time.
Plus I felt really ill after about 2 mins and nearly blew chunks!

When I first got FSX in 2014 it took me almost a week to get over motion sickness lol! I use a 50" tv as my monitor, and using head look in the VC of A2A planes made me really ill! :haha:

But yes! If it all works out in the end it will be awesome to fly the NGX, MJC Dash 8 and A2A stuff fully immersed!
I've played Elite Dangerous for 3-4 years now too, and I hear it's epic for that!

Imagine SH5 and TWOS in VR :o Mind blown!

John.

[Dowly]

I'd love to own one, but at 450 plus what I need to get my PC to the higher end margin that is required quickly puts the price tag close, if not over 1,000€.

[Jimbuna]

I could be tempted, I've just upgraded my machine to i7.

[Skybird]

In the racing community many peope say that to avoid nausea, you want frames kept at 90 if possible. A latency gap that hardly or not atv all can be noticed, and smooth frames, that is of paramount imporanc ein VR. That is the reason why just minumum specs time and again brign people trying VR into troubles. And that is why I wenjt so expensively with my nerw rig, it is an atypical buy for me habits of the past 15, 20 years. I wanted to have those performance reserves. Obviously, that brings the price for a new machine up high into the air, and these costs need to be added to those for the headset.

The Vive costs twice as much and more than the Oculus. Solid argument there.

@ SS Norholm,

if you are short on VR legs, then pay attention to that you said you already grew dizzy from FSX on a standard screen. I take it that you maybe are not used to playing computer games at all. Your brain is untrained, and this pays off against you twice when using VR. But almost everybody says that the brain can be trained, like kids over time learn not to suffer from nausea when driving in cars with with their poarents. Many kids suffer nausea at young ages then, due to the movement. And later, it dissappears. From day to day, icnrease the time a little bit you spend in VR, but stop shortly before you feel nausea. Your tolerance should improve, by all empirical experience. Also, do not start with somethign that features excissvely fast movements, but somethign that sees you gently drifting and floating at slow, relaxing pace. A game like Adr1ft, Lone Echo, Saubnautica and the likes may be better suited for beginning, than doing death spirals and loopings in a dogfighter in your first session already. Some people, usually people not playing much, say they could not last longer than 5 minuters int he beginning, others, usually people playing a lot, said that form beginning on they could hold out one or two hours and their problem was not nausea, but warmth.

Brain-train level really seems to have a lot to do with it, and it is no fixiated state.
Give the brain time to adapt. Both in one session, and between sessions.

At least that is my plan for myself. :D

The inferior resolution is reported by practically everbyody to be forgotten soon once immersion starts to suck you into the game world. Just tell yourself you are playing a game 12 years ago, recall the resoltuoons thta were in use back then. And there you are.

[Skybird]

I could be tempted, I've just upgraded my machine to i7.
You also need a fast gfx card. ;) nVidia says minimum is a 960, but I would niot bet m oney on that claim, but think 1060 is the minimum - and then you still have no reserves.

These 1080TI cards are expensive like sin. I have a bad conscience that I bought one.

[SS Norholm]

Lol! I'm used to playing games and gaming alright!
I been gaming since the Pong days and my first Spectrum 48k not long after! :)

The reason I had motion sickness with FSX in the beginning was because I wasn't used to the fast head pan in the VC, plus being sat a little bit too close to a huge screen! It also turned out I wasn't using the optimal settings for a PC/TV setup.......weird scan and latency issues, plus putting the TV into 'Game Mode' helped a lot.

I'm ok now, but for sure, VR would take some getting used to alright. But I'd just grind it out and get used to it. If it turns out a viable alternative option for gaming, it's the future for sure, and would be worth the trips to the toilet!!

Btw, like you say above....it's interesting how 'motion sickness' or 'simulator sickness' is brought on! Basically your brain can't cope and goes into panic mode!
As it feels you sat still, but it see's movement from the image, can't figure out why, so it makes you feel nauseous and throw up as it thinks you're probably poisoned! :)

[Skybird]

The eyes tell the brain "we are moving." The inner ear tells the brain "nope we do not move at all". The muscles tell the brain "We try to make us moving." Something undefinable tells the brain "In fact, everythign moves around us" .CPU cannot compute all this conflicting data too well. If then the eyes push it over the top and tell the brain "we are not moving as fast as the msclues try to move us", then something goes perplex over this latency issue, and makes a desperate clicking sound of resignation, and the machinist in the brain presses the red stop button: we feel nausea.

Like on Monday mornings, first hour of the new week's shift. Your conscience tells you that life shall be good. Your senses tell you by all they perceive around you: it isn't good at all. The boss walks in and says this sad state will last for another full week before it will become good on weekend. You vomit on his table. :D See...? LOL

[SS Norholm]

Lol ! A great analogy!

o7

[Skybird]

Almost one week with VR now, time for a sitrep and assessment.

It has blown the top of my skull up and high into the air. :up:

Its not as if there are no visual setbacks. Due to the current technical implementation, some disadvantages cannot be aovided: the grapjhcis are somewhat blurry, think of it as an oldfashioned CRT TV and you with your nose close to the screen, then you get an idea of wehat it is about. The further and deeper you look into the distance of VR space, the blurrier it becomes, ion close vicinity, say up to three meters, it is pretty much clear, and some titles put more techncial emphasis on making graphcis in close vicinty sharper, than others. You always wear a ski mask: the outer rims of your viewing field are blocked, but not much, at top and bottom one finger wide, at the sides two finger wide.

Does all this limit the joy? For me, not at all. The mask effect I am not aware of anymore since minute two of my VR exploration. The blurriness is somethign one gets used to, in some games it is more apparent, on others less.

The Oculus introduction and then the first demo with the small flying robot, were moments of pure magic like I have not felt for many, many years. I probably grinned all the time like an idiot, babbling stupid words like "Das is' nicht wahr!" and "Verdammte Scheiße!" and repeating them endlessly, for more variation in prose my brain had no reserves left to produce, it was too occupied with processing what the headset fed in signals via the eyes. I then, ten minutes later, tried Google Earth in VR. And it was then when the first contact with the virtual world really became overwhelming. I was speechless, and felt that my emotional control was starting to get shaken. I could not belie it, the visual impression was absolutel overwhelming and - well, yes, overwhelming, there is no better word for it. I was floating in space, and this big orb that Earth is was floating before my eyes and I was levitating in empty space and stars and the milky way around me - then zooming in to Florence and seeing it laid out under my eyes like the 3D landscape of a model railway landscape of unlimited proportions, and this little god that I suddenly had turned into, flying and moving and handling it all like he wanted - it started to become too much. Not due to nausea, and still have not suffered a single minute from it, but my emotional reaction became more and more intense. All this beauty around me! Unbelievable!

I then zoomed to Neuschwanstein Castle, and here used the function of Streetview, suddenly standing in the inner yard of the castle that surrounded me as a true 360° panorama, and all the people stood around me, and I turned and it was as if I were there. I had to stop here and give it a break, my emotioins went on a rollercoaster ride. System overload, my inner system shut down and took a break.

Guys, this is madness.

Since then, I only made as intense and overwhelming new experiences with VR, no matter what I tried. The tracks in Assetto Corsa and now sitting inside the car and watchigng my alter ego behind the wheel, it is a completely new ball game, the tracks have nothing to do with those I remember from screen. That cars in a distance are hazy and blurry, it just does not matter that much, when they get closer, all the stunning detail in stereoscopic 3D becomes apparent, you race in the middle of the pack, you see and think you feel the car shakign and rollign around you, you scratch off paint from others and look scared out of the window, you naturall turn your head towards turn apex or to watch the mirrors - its super-hot stuff, the devil pales in envy. With the even more detailed tracks in Raceroom, it became even better. Yesterday i did the Nordschleife, trying to kill my new rig and push it into maximum fans acitivity (a fail, btw. :D ) by driving with almost 100 cars. The noise! the sights! The experience! You see, all external cameras, TV cameras, car body cameras, they are still there - just in 3D. You want to reach out and touch it. Its unbelievable.

What also impresses me, is how they solved latency. There is none you can note. I love to play Eleven Table Tennis, and you depend on the game releasing your movements and reactions in zero time. And as far as human perception is concerned - it does. The movements I do are natural, and like in reality, the game - to me, while I play - is like the real thing, they physics are excellent and absolutely convincing. After 30 minutes of excercising :), I am wet with sweat, breathing a bit heavier than before. Its unbelievable how good this game is in catching the real thing. I also saw Racket Fury, which is better in presentation, but a bit lighter in AI and physics, still: also a very good table tennis game. Just that Eleven is as hardcore as it can get, gameplay- and physics-wise.

This morning I installed Battle for Stalingrad. I have not set up the controls and did not tune the game, I just went into a quick mission and let the autopilot fly and fight. Holy cow, once again I was kicked out of reality. They did an excellent job, a most excellent job in recreating the cockpits in 3D, and making all the instruments readable, and easily so, and the blurriness of distant planes also got toned down, but I recommend to play with labels on in VR. I expected the experience to be unusable, due to the open space and huge distance and the blurriness this implies. Somehow they managed to significantly tone it down. Like with racing before, flying now is a completely new ballgame.

Point is, the scaling of objects in stereoscopic 3D gives you the impression to be different, bigger, than you are used to know things from 2D screen. a screen does not transport the informaton for the eye that gives you a correct idea of how big and massive objects actually are. It was like this in my race sims, and it was like this in Sturmovik Stalingrad as well. The tracks in race sims appear to be flat and even, even the laserscanned bumby and steep ones. on a screen, you just do not become aware of it. with the Vr headset on, you deal with a new world and are stunned of how steep it goes up and down on the N ordschlweife, and how uneven the track is.

There are many free programs to be tried, demos and small games, I tried Robo recall, like somebody recommended, and indeed it is good fun and shows some really nasty humour, and it is a nice pistols and rifles shooter in the streets of Robo City. A good demonstrator.

I already own Dirt Rally, like the other racing sims, so I get VR for it free, I just need to tune the options and settings a bit. The experience of driving rally I had already. It was the most intense driving of them all! :D And the world looks fantastic.

My rig is a monster, and no matter what I throw at it, it happily digests it, and the Rift gives me 90 frames all the time. You can get away with less frames and then some software solution to extrapolate additional frames, but this comes at the cost of a.) being less precise, and more important: b.) increasing the risk of nausea. Whe you consider to try VR, keep this in mind. You can get away with a less beefy system and lower specs than I have, but you may be faced with a price.

Also, nausea risk increases in games that have the player moving at high speeds, and then looking to the side instead of ahead. For your first test, you may want to chose a more slow, gentle animation experience, or something where you can stay steady.

I just got Alien Isolation in steam sales today. Somewhere out there, there is a - working! - 3D patch for it, indeed it has her basic 3D interface build in, but the producer never officially pushed it to release in development, since they did not sell enough units of the game and thus development was considered uneconomical. Not much must be said about the game and its survival mode, its truly creepy. Now that I have a first hand impression of what 3D does regarding me teleporting INTO as game world, I am not eager to check out the manual installation needed for this patch.

As I said already in the Subnautica thread, this is another marvel in 3D VR. The beauty to be seen is incredible ,you must not play the game, just go into god mode and then dive away as far as your heart lets you - and as deep. The feel of pressure in the wide open blue, is intense as well. I feel very intense excitement when diving in this game. At night, it looks breathtaking. Its a SciFi game after akll, and the flora and fauna is an alien one.

A word on the manufacturing quality of the Rift. The visuals are said to be the best amongst all currently available headsets. And I do not complain about visuals and electronics, but about the face rim with foam that they provided, it is cheap, shabby, and did not fit my face at all, my nose's breath streamed back into the mask and the result was not just fogging, but it simply became really wet inside. Very bad. For this price, even at reduced price, the manufcaturing quality is shabby. The foam also started to unpick at the sleeves, where skin might be a bit rough due to shaving having left some stopples of hair. I replaced the face frame with an external product which again is not too good in manufacturing quality considering its too high price, but it has at least a plastic leather skin on the foam, and a piece of cloth to be put on top of that, and important: the fit is suiting my face much better. Hygienics can become problematic, since you tend to sweat when wearing this masks, they become warm, and if you play something like table tennis, you sweat due to the "sports".

My glasses were not a problem to be worn in the mask, but be aware they say here is a limit how wide glasses cna be, not every frame may fit into the mask. Anyway, I ordered lens-lab lenses that get attached to the mask, so that I do no need to wear the glasses at all.

On the cables, they again saved money ion the wrong plac, they are the very lowest minimum only. At the same time, be advised that if you extent them, you enter dangerous terrain already if extensions are longer than 2m, also, not all brands of cakbveols may work with the Oculus Rift. The Rift needs longer cables by default, and a stronger signal amplifier would be appreciated as well.

The runnign software is too obstzrusive, for my taste, coming to life whenever oyu just touch or move the Rift on the table. There is no switch to turn the hardware off, it is always on - stupid, and they said they designed it intentionally so, which is even more stupid.

Its no bad kit, I do not say he image quality ois bad, it isn't. What I say is that they save dmoneys in the wroing places, and that the cable length is too short, and the face frame is too bad - on these things the Rift is overpriced. However, the Vive currrently costs twice as much, more or less.

Virtual Desktop is a must have tool, it projects the PC desktop before your eyes and let you handle it without needing to take off the mask. Its like sitting before a huge movie screen in the cinema. There are severla programs doing this, but VD is said to have the best player for 360° videos, which are another highly fascinating thing. You sit in an open bus and drive through the streets of Havannah, a fluid, smooth movie that is projected on the inner side of a sphere surrounding you from all sides, and yourself hanging in the centre of the sphere. Dolphin diving, parachute jumping, and many touristic introduction videos - very nice!

Programmign games for 3D, is costly, and the first heavy weight in business, CCD who did Eve Valkyrie for 3D on Playstation, already has withdrawn completely again. With games like Skyrim and Fallout coming to 3D, the ultimate fate of VR is still open nevertheless, but I do not take it for granted that it will be a success story - in gaming. Some games' content are nice for VR implementation, some other content does not go well together with VR. However, one must see the other fields where VR can be used, and I gave some example, while not having mentioned others. The possibilities are immense, and fascinating, and technology will improve. Just increasing the pixel in displays will not do the trick, since you need more calculation power in your PC s well.

I think, all in all, this time VR has come to stay. But it will not necessarily be the game genre that pushes it forward. Could be - but must not be. There are tradeoffs in visual quality that you currently have to live with, but I found myself getting overwhelmed and flattened by the compensation. I love VR, and I love it with big passion - just took me one minute.

One minute.

P.S.
The nausea problem is a brain training thing. You can train yourself to form greater tolerance for it. If you are faced by this problem, due to lacking monitor time, do not give it up immediately, but come back next day, but have a calmer and shorter session, and then slowly extend length and intensity of your sessions, from day to day. Most, amost all people seem to agree that this way you can train your brain to adapt to VR. Me, playing a lot and doing a lot of things on PC, has not had a single nausea attack so far. However, if yiur hardware is lacking, no brain trian can compensate for that.

And if somebody knows how to get Stellarium for VR (named Starsight, I think) without needing to file in a Google+ account, please let me know.

Elite can be had for Steam sale price currently, think I go after it. I'm on a frenzy currently. :D

[Skybird]

Worth to be considered: Oculus sensors are hackable webcams.

https://uploadvr.com/hackable-webcam-oculus-sensor-be-aware/

Cover them if you do not use them. Like you put a stripe on the webcam in your notebook, too.

Meanwheile, I have used VR in ETS2, which works remarkably well and brings the cockpit interior to real life, and Dirt Rally, whcih maybe is the visually bets looking VR experience amongst allk racing sims I use. It is spectacular, especially if oyu limit viewing range due to bad wetaher or use tracks of limited viewiign range (woods, many turns, landscqape bliockign vision). The image of VR masks is much blurrier than what you see on monitors, and the further you look into the virtual space and at a distance, the blurrier it becomes. Thats why you want to switch off things like "anti-alias" and "depth of field", and that's why VR works the better the more limited viewing distances are in any game.

Also, a wonderful, a truly amazing free demo is avialable from the Oculus Home repository: Air Car, which sits you into a flying air car like you know from Blade Runner, and have you you flying over a futuristic nightly as you kniow it also form the movie. You can manouver freely, and it is all you can do, there is no "game". But doing this alone is already fascination, and a very intense experience. Considering this is free, I absolutely recommend to try this demo, it is perfect for introducing visitors to VR as well. - Not to be mistaken with Blade Runner Mind Lab, another free demo there is.

In early access at steam,, there is a tennis game as well, this time the real big field game, not table tennis. It still is under development, and I wonder how they manage to get correct grip and runnign up and dopwn the line is beign implemented when you play this in your living room, but I keep an eye on this, though currently from a distance.

Sports Bar is a blown up surrounding for an older Billiard game. The Billiard poart is solid, but simple, actually I got this for another oncluded game, that is air hockey, a thing I know from rfal lfie, and that I played excesi8svely and with greta passion when I was at university. I must say the impkementaiuton of it in this pckage, is very good, it plays like I recall it from back then. Since that was what I was after, I rate this package a success buy.

And I found another quite good table tennis game, Racket Fury. It is a bit lighter in soorts and physics than Eleven Table Tennis, but it is superior in presentaiton and grahics. Set in a futuristic ambience, you playx against robtos that are depicted and animated in full, you canj chose to have a more forgiving arcade game mode where the ball is magicallyy attracted to the table even if you slam it like crazy, and it has some nice naimations to effects, smash ball energy, and flight oaths, all can be switched on and off. Eleven is the more hardcore, and if you want t5o play table tennis seriously in Vr, whcih i absolteuly beioevew is possible, it is the superior choice, but Racket Fury also is a very good, solid representation of the sports, and more accessible and suotable for occasional and party gaming. Its non-arcade mode is quite realistic. Recommended.

Finally, another free demo that comes as part of the Oculus Home domain, that is Mission ISS. It has three advantages that makes it perfect as a demo: it is educating on the ISS, it looks and feels great, and it is slow moving while having you revolving aroudn all three axis, showing you what full VR really means. The station can be explored both form within and the outside. It'S free, and so trying it out is a no-brainer.

[Skybird]

Ridley Scotts company RSA announced they are working on a VR game "Alien Covenant". Their early attempt of turnign "The Martian" into a brief game, was not really cheered about by players, so I halt my applaus.

Alien Isolation in VR - is horror. I do not say more than that it really tests your nervous costume. It gives me the creeps. Feels very intense, I appreciate it somewhat, but do not really enjoy it. :)

Rumours are consolidating that 2018 first 4K headsets will come out, amongst them a HTC set, and a crowdfunded Chinese set by Pixma. But what I read of the latter, sounds dubious so far, I would take it with a grain of salt. They even talk about 8K displays - with crowdfunding of just 100 thousand as a goal, and super frames of up to 140-180 Hz and a latency below 12 ms, via software accessing both Steam and HTC shops and Oculus Home...? I believe it when I see it. And it remains to be seen what PC hardware, namely graphics boards, will make of such headsets.

I have made good experiences with The Golf Club meanwhile, and Sprts Bar, which I would recommend to all of you wanting to gather in a social media sytel in a virtual bar, noit kust chatting, but also playing several typical bar games togetherk the host cna even set up his preferred Jukebox mix and music videos. It has still some bugs here and there, but the core elements work very well and likely. It allos platforms combined: HTC, Oculus, Playstation. Up to I think 12 players in one room, and some bots. The implementaiton of pool is well done with the AI, so is shuffleboard and Air Hockey. Darts needs to get used to. Chain reaction is a nice reaction automat, and there also are chess and checkerb oards (wiothout AI, to be used by two human players), and some ball-throwing thing that I did not know, plus many non-seriosu gimmicks. Want to form a lobby with your friends? This one is a nice way to do it.

I focus on racing now, but have tested VR in Elite as well, unfortunately, while the cockpit experience is great, the game has such an alienating access and lack of default-delivered documentation and needs to be set up with so compley a menu, that it has killed my enjoyment quite rapidly. It loois and feels great, yes, but nevertheless Braben has managed to ruin it, in my opinion. What was he thinking. And then the business model - micrortansactions like in Raceroom. What was he thinking, what only was he just thinking. Not pleasant to be played with Touch controllers. Cannot recommend this one.

I tested and refunded X Rebirtgh VR as well, whcih is brandnew. It uses Vulcan gfx engien and looks nice, but once again this stupdi compoany has placed a messed-.up release, they sjt did not learn from their msitakes in 2014, but somewhat repwat it.The steering is vilating the standards of al flightsimming just for the sake of making it different - and worse. Cannot recommend this either, I filed a requestr for refund, and got it.

I travelled the Grand Canyon for - beolpeive it - 2 and a half hours. Google Earth is my big love affair and beside Assetto corsa and Raceroom the thing I use VR most for.

I wait for sales to start further exmaination of Holoball and Battlezone.

First Person Tennis I also strongly recommend, if hitting balls with your handstick is what you are looking for. Eleven Table Tennis oprves to last much loigner thna just for a few days, I play it regularly, and I enjoy it. Subnautica got a new graphics update just two days ago.

Aerofly FS2 is on my cnsideraiton list, but I just cannot get mayslef embarking on it. My fglying times indeed seem to be over, somewhat. It is said to have a superior VR experience and indeed has fanatastic visuals, but on ly in the day, its areas of high detail are phto scenery, more or less. Their switzerland addon was the basis of the first Aerofly title, I know it. Its a Flightsim LIGHT, and looks awesome -durign the day. But no life, no complexity, no interactive scenery, only rudimentary cockpit functionality. I assume this becomes uninteresting rather quickly. Thats why I keep my money.

I think I skip on DCS VR, I imagine it is much more work to set it up and then flying it (I knew it in the last) as if I am willing to inverst that much time and effort anymore. Yes, my flying times feel like being over.

All in all it is indeed like I anticipated weeks ago before the new rig arrived. VR is the nonplusultra for racing sims already now. A natural combination. If racing is your thing, you owe it to yourself to forget triple screens and to plot course for VR. Several light-sports games work very well, too.

[Skybird]

An image example of screen qualities. It shows what 4K would mean for image quality compared to the HTC and Oculus current displays.

https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/018/394/459/d502ee261784ab298163207f5f2c95dc_original.gif?w=68 0&fit=max&v=1505836258&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&

Illustration from Pimax.

P.S.

It seems direct link does not work. Try this page, the second (animated) illustration in the text, pretty much at the top.

https://vr-world.com/htc-vive-2-neue-virtual-reality-brille-2018-4k-display-samsung/

[Skybird]

A nice video giving an overlook on Vr and flight simming: games, tools, experience quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roRm1I8CpbY

Seems to be more advanced than I noticed so far.

[Skybird]

First test done today with VR and X-Plane 11. Sitting myself into the cockpit of a Boeing 737, I ended up being slightly disoriented (despite knowing the stuff from PMDG's 737) and just thinking "Wowh. This thing is huge. Wowh."

Its not perfect, but already overwhelming enough. Probably the so far best implementation of VR into a hardcore flightsim. The handlig concept is superb.

Compared to FSX, XP11 seems to be a thing fo give some and take some. Pewrsonally for me, airprort sceneries are most important, and this is where XP11 must let FSX go uzp and away. Even the additional 3rd party commercial products for international hubs for both sims see FSX outclassing XP11. Default scneery and weather and nighttime lights and colours however are all points scored for XP11.

If you have VR and ask whetehr or not to go with XP11 to get flight simming aboard your flightsim collection in VR, stop thinking, and start buying. Its a no-brainer.

And my beautioful new system can handle it at smooth frames with most graohics options maxed out or at least in the upper quarter of the settings.

Rumour says PMDG plans to continue and finish the running 2 projects, then start converting their NGX for XP11, for which they alreaedy released a DC-6, which could have been a testing balloon for them to see how it is to code within this new environment of XP. However, I do not await the NGX or the also rumoured 777 any time soon. Probably not next year (2018). Hopefully 2019.

[Skybird]

Its been half a year with VR for me now. The initial fever has toned down a bit, but I am still extremely happy with it. The starting curiosity also has adapted to a more laid back style again, and beside my initial main interests Assetto Corsa and Raceroom, I now use it frequently and very often for Google Earth as well as Eleven Table Tennis.

I cannot recommend Eleven much enough. It is a superb, physically most exact simulation of the sports. I just came in from the garden where I played the last half an hour real world table tennis with the son of one family living in this house. It was the first time I have played the real thing since my schooldays, which are over 30 years ago. And it felt like what i did the past weeks and months, 4 or 5 days per week for half an hour in VR. It worked the same, the swinging and effect worked the same, it was all and everything the same. If you go VR, get this little gem, it is superb. The young man did not believe me when telling him I had not played TT for over 30 years. :D Actually, he is right. I feel as if I play it every day. And I have dramatically improved, last but not least due to its trainign options allowing me to train just one special strike and situation at a time. IMO, this is one of the best games avaikalble for VR. It scores maximum points in the category of "simulating its object".

Another famous table tennis game is Racket, but I must "warn" against itr. Its presentation is better, yes, and it offers more candy like animated robo-opponents and futuristic environments, but what counts is the ball physics and the paddle physics, and while for itself it works, regarding the pyhsics and realism Eleven imo plays it into the ground: far superior, just that. If realism is what you want: Eleven trumps Racket.

I also found A-10 VR. This is no flight sim at all, I do not kow where they got the title. Its a space pistolero shooter with two different laser pistols, and you have to defend your position against incoming UFOs that may split into multiple targets if hit, or explode once they slowly had managed to drift to your position and contacting your "body". The graphics are quite abstract, but match the setting very well. This is no new game idea, not at all. What makes this title so splendid that I recommend it, is the virtuous perfection by which it works. A-10 presents htis game idea in an imo excellent execution that raises the difficulty comfortably, but constantly, until you finally gte overwhelmed. If you test it, make sure you understand that the training mode is designed to not raise the challenge, but to stay at a low pace. Mayn people overlook this and then rate the game on basis of this boring, dull gameplay. Those who found out later and played again with the real game modes and difficulty, immediately skyrocketed their ratings. A-10 does not sound like much, but it is a hell of a good shooting game, really. 360° arena around you. I just love it.

The pinball tables by ZEN, Flipper FX 2 VR, are a mixed bag, some of them play nice and well, others are a bit dull, but the visual presentation is always very good. If pinball is your game, this comes recommended, even more since finally they have implemented proper controller support. Finally. Thje tables are not too simple, but could offer some more complexity nevertheless, for my taste. All in all: Good stuff. The VR makes the tables and palying them areally new experience - and your ball control will benefit from it, believe me.

Fallout 4 which came for HTC only, was greeted with mixed reactions, there seems to be some design flaws in it and some quesitonable design decisions which made this release one that trails behind its expectations. But Skyrim! This classic works VERY well, and is probably one of the very, very best games available for VR currently. Show me any better one: status July 2018. If the controversy about Fallout 4 VR held you back, rest assured: your concern is not valid when it comes to Skyrim. It works. And it is a blast. All DLCs included. It even can be modded.

I occasionally have some fun with some swinging done in First Person Tennis, which is still in developement, its not perfect, but surprisngly good, the concept works well enough. If you want to tennis a bit, go for it, you hardly will consider it to be a mistake. Its fun, really, thoguh not as sophisticated as Eleven table tennis. However, make sure you play NOT at simplified physics model, but the realistic one. Ands beware your funiture. this is one of the VR games that indeed is "dangerous".

The Golf Club VR is a nice Golf game. I do not play it much, got it more for a sense of "completeness" (a computer is no computer as long as it has no chess and no golf game installed). It seems to be quite realistic on the physis side, and surprisingly the swinging and the height callbration works indeed very well.

I tried some other, minor stuff as well, but nothing too serious there. Also Elite , but the VR game for me has the same problem like the standard version of it: the new player is left too alone with too much fiddling around with the controls. I just cannot get immersed enough to dive deeper into it. Technically/visually, Elite in VR is one of the most impressive games available for VR currently. David Braben really wastes a big opportunity with this title, since years. Its not as if peope did not let him know.

Needless to say: in racing games, VR works at its very best, this - and Google Earth and Streetview - is what VR was made for, as far as games are concerned. Assetto Corsa and Raceroom are no games any longer - they are experiences.

-----

Have I missed any major new VR game over the last 6 months that scores big time and is stunningly well-done? Any tips, secret recommendations, whispered titles traded under the table?

[Skybird]

I just tested the demo for Racket NX. We have a new must-have for the list of VR games!

Its a mix of Arkanoid, Squash and Racketball, played under a hex-plated 360° dome. There are several game modes and multiplayer, and although they want a room setting, my two sensors and a 2x2m playing arena worked perfectly well.

They got this game absolutely right, evertyhing in it, the physics of the energy ball, the way you can add spin and slice, and hitting the ball has something in it that gives amazing satisfaction. If you add power to your hits, let the bat snap around your wrist so that it kicks the thing like a whip, it gives you a feeling and a result that you become addicted to in no time. The game was in Early Access since 2016 and has just been fully released some days ago, and they apparently used this lot of time to really finetune things and get every little detail of the game mechanics right.

Superb VR game, excellent, I'm hyped! :yeah: This is no doubt one of the best VR games out there currently. It also is a fantastic demonstrator for the potential of VR.

Free demo available, test it, 350 MB at Steam. I will buy and download the full version tomorrow, currently with a 25% discount (15 Euros).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhyQgwUD0FM


P.S. There is a couple of good sports games out there that really can get your blood moving faster and get you sweating and fogging your headset. BoxVR, Racket Fury, Eleven Table Tennis, Thrill of the Fight, First Person Tennis and now Racket NX all count to this category. I did martial arts for the better part of my life but stopped training over ten years ago, so I know what real sports of this kind is, I also played a bit of Tennis when I was young, really, just a little bit, Boris Becker hype and all that LOL. I do not say these kind of VR games are full substitutes for a real workout, but lets be fair to what they try to be: they really are better than no sports at all. ;)

[Skybird]

Vr needs a strong hardware and headsets usually are on the more expensive side of things. Thats why many thought that consoles, namely the PS4 by Sony with its sufficient console power and affordably priced headset would be able to boost the VR mission.


Sony now released official numbers. They said so far 3 million headsets and 22 million VR titles for Playstation 4 have been sold.


I think that is not desastrous, but also not really "good".



Main problem imo remains that there are too few good VR titles that adapt very well to the medium, its typical strengths and weaknesses. Myself, I am still happy, since I use it mainly for race driving. And race sims and VR are made for reach other - perfect combo. Evertyhing falls into the right place with this combination. The other top hit for me remains to be Google Earth.

[Skybird]

If your final exams for vomitting diploma are close and you feel you still need to train a little bit in order to pass the graduation spitting, No Limits 2 in VR is a good practicing opportunity to help you vomitting so creatively that even the most sceptical tutors will be impressed by your spraying skills. Happy spouting!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNP2axE8pE



This is a 360° video so you can move the viewing angle around.


The thing has a very complex but competent editor which they claim is being used by real world companies to plan and design new coasters. Here is where the real focus of the title resides, I think: doing new tracks, since riding a rollercoaster is not really "gameplay". Some people go into the basement ands buiold model railroads, others sit down and build rollercoaster, jedem Tierchen sein Pläsierchen. Workshop support is available if picking the Standard version at Steam. They have two versions. The Pro version can only be had at the producer's website. Free demo with three full tracks available, but editor is not functional. The tutorials can be red, however, I think.

[Skybird]

The new Assetto Corsa Competizione got VR as well two weeks ago, second release in their Early Access program. The sim is benchmarking the genre, and the VR already is very good although i have often read the Unreal 4 engine is anything but easy to use for VR. The resulting immersion is overwhelming. When ACC is complete at the end of Q1 2019, it will sweep the floor with all the competing racing titles. Fact!

[Skybird]

Tried Tango Park in No Limits earlier this evening. A terrible, a good experience. That machine I tried, was no coaster, I do not know how they are called, but it was the first time that I got extremely nauseous in VR, and I felt sick for all evening long. It was even better and worse, becasue I took the riude at night, and the scnery helf many colourful light effects that contrast in Vr heavily and accentuate the angular speeds and rotation. I even did not went to bed, because I still feel sea-sick, hours later.

Here the diabolic thing can be seen from 0:45 until 2:00. If you want to maximise-impress your guests with your new VR kit - here is your oppotunity. Just have a bucket ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt1vMQ7WAV0

I tell you, you must try this! :D

What a glorious beast. Usually I am not vulnerable to VR nausea at all. Not at all.

However, This video shows what beautiful stuff can be done if modders unleash their magic and go seriously into it. Its just a piece of beauty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjjiOXaroXk&list=PL20Dp8jCv531Kkno9n_jTZUhnFUA839ba

[Skybird]

I disoverd a new and old game, that is because I forgot about it since I saw it in VR in Novembre last year. ETS2. I mean I playe dit already before and since logn time, since I find it a most relaxing and pleasant experience, comparable to The Hunter, but last year I just quickly checked whether or not I could get it working under VR, and then forgot about it. It not only works, but it works marvelously well.The cabin feeling is insanely immersive, the cockpit detials and fantastic mirrors blend nicely with the environment, the flowing traffic, the sights and views of weather and night-day-cycle, the enchanting landscape chnages...


I also finally took the time to tune my new wheel and pedals correctly for the sim, and with the new physics of version 1.33, the driving delivers me a very convincing and believable illusion of the relalthing and of correct physical behaviour - up to level that I emotioanlly react to the game and "live" the feeling of being all alone in the weather, or enjoying the feel of truckigj down that road. Not many games acchieve that emotional reaction.


There is a lot of writing and complaining about ETS2 working bad in VR and that is has massive performance issues. I cannot confirm that, but then i have a very powerful rig, I use no mods and I don'T drive online (pointless in ETS2, imo), for me it works always smooth and without any issues at all even in rush hour jams and lots of cars around. I have not one issue with ETS in VR, none. The visual quality when looking at the virtual distance, is not different than in other racing games and games, and for itself is nice by the standards of today'S VR.



The new areas they have added lately, Scandinavia,France and Italy, also look most beautiful, surpassing by far the level of details and atmpshere in the graohcis if the game as it was released many years ago. Much new stuff has replaced old incarnations since then, sunliht, and lights of cars at night have been repalced, amongst many other things. The baltic states, the region around St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad Southern Finland are about to follow in one or two weeks.



If you have not tried ETS while you have VR, do it now. Its an outstanding experience to showcase VR, imo. It has blwon new life into this sim for me, and I am looking forward to to once again some trucking over the dark time of the year.


I do not know but can only imagine that ATS would work nice and beautiful in VR as well.

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks for the detailed descriptions.I tried VR in Sweden and yeah, it was really amazing. I am pretty sure I will suffer nausea all the time though, I couldn't play more than 15 minutes of Half-Life without getting sick. :oops:

[Skybird]

Two things, Neal.


First, VR nausea is for most people an issue that can be trained to lower it. When you say 15 minutes currently is your limit, play 10, and then slowly increase the time from session to session. Your brain needs time to adapt, apparently, and it most likely will. I have read that people who could not stand it at all, after some weeks, three or four, could play an hour, and longer.



Second, FPS imo are one of the worst choices for first time VR experiences. All that hopping and jumping, and then the high velocity angle speeds when dodging to the side. You know it from car driving, if you feel ill, you best look ahead to the horizon, the worst you can do is looking at a 90° angle out the window - then you see things flying by at the highest speed. So first try to adapt to it by playing something where you can sit and that does not involve high speeds of any kind. Or something where you stand, but must not run around a lot. Eleven Table Tennis, for example, or Golf, or - very nice! - FX Pinball VR. Already next come driving sims, again your body sits still in your seat, and the virtual cockpit provides a fixed reference frame again. - Flight sims and FPS and rollercoaster come last!! - I played The Hunter 2D in virtual desktop mode once, and it was very impressive - but due to the head movement when walking, I got motionsick very quickly. Skyrim VR is a marvellous game in VR, but I needed some time to adapt to it, could not play longer than 45 minutes before feeling slightly uncomfortable. I now can play it as long as I want.



It can be trained, the brain only needs some time to adapt. Thats why the Oculus gameshop has comfort level labels for the titles listed. The more comfortable a game is rated, the less any fast, hectic movement or multi-axis movement is usually involved. I also would reocmmend not to try my beloved Subnautica too early, becasue it has three-dimensional movement (diving in an ocean), and sometimes no reference points for the eye.



I think its worth it to try. When you have sat in a 737 cockpit in VR in X Plane for the first time at dawn or night and all the tech stuff glows around you in the twilight, you just must fall silent in amazement.


Google Earth is well for training, too, because you can comfortably vary any speed at which you move around. Too fast - you just do it slower, and smoothly and easily so. You will notice from session to session that your brain grows its adaptation level. Just do not push or try to enforce things. Stop immediately when you feel the first signs of nausea - at the latest.



Oh, and make sure you get steady 90 fps, or with some games that are good at using it: 45 fps with ASW on.



Thw orst thing that happened to me so far, was that incident with the rolelrcoaster thing I described two or three posts above. That rotating in all three space axis was too much, I was ill for hours to come. Seriously so. The world continued to spin around me even hours later. But even that got better a bit since then, I tried it three more times, and now things are not as bad anymore as they had been.

[Skybird]

While I am at ETS 2 - today and tomorrow American Truck Simulator 2 (also VR capable) with very good reviews at Steam costs just 5 Euro coins. 2.3 GB download. I just bought myself in.



Baltic expansion for ETS2 coming this Thursday.

[Bilge_Rat]

I bought the Oculus Rift at the Black Friday sale, $449 Canadian (around 300 Euros). Should get it in a few days, will give a review.


You can go on Steam and download the "Steam VR performance Test", free on the store. Apparently, my PC is VR ready. Will see when it gets here. :up:

[Skybird]

Enjoy! :up: The first days are when the magic is still fresh, so do not spoil it. The free Oculus program "First Encounter" is a nice first contact.


Else, same advise like I gave Neal just above, in case you feel nausea.

[Skybird]

Since above I talked about it a lot recently, just a reminder that today the Baltic area DLC gets relased, which beefs up the European map of ETS2 even further.

Spain, Ireland and the Western Balkan are the remaining regions that got not covered so far.

I understand that ATS2 in America is apparently not as successful than ETS2 is in Europe, development and DLCs seem to go slower there, or not?

Years ago I asked in this forum about ETS2, and was sceptical. I would have never imagined that it would enjoy such a long life on my HD, and that I would play it frequently for such a long time. Its a wonderful relaxation method.


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UxDZVxB7vuE/W__gKJV-gbI/AAAAAAAACUQ/Sm8jWtcVk146k5ApgwDt0lOSxLwkVs_0gCLcBGAs/s0/balt_blog_map_big.jpg

[Skybird]

One of the games that VR was made for!? Could very well be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQUoYLlONQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4VRtdlwYAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPYIPJOtYco

[Skybird]

Being an active Google Earth VR and Streetview VR traveller myself, I can easily imagine how true the below is.


https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-49654052/how-virtual-reality-is-helping-people-with-dementia


And no, I have no dementiaa. Though some people sometimes claimed I had. :D

[Jimbuna]

Wouldn't wish dementia on anyone, I witnessed my father-in-laws passing at the young age of 59.

[Skybird]

Wouldn't wish dementia on anyone, I witnessed my father-in-laws passing at the young age of 59.
:salute:

[JU_88]

I think VR has already sort of flopped this time around, the hype died a couple of years ago - which is a shame.
I think the three big problems were:

1) Cost of all the High end kit needed was still too much for your average consumer to justify it.

2) Lack of innovative ways to really apply it in games, streaming media etc. Making it 'really quite nice to have' but not at all essential.
And it some cases it could be argued it was little more than a gimmick.

3) Some bandwagon companies actually putting consumers off with poor products that cheapened the experience, like a gismo for strapping a Smart phone to your face etc.

So yeah i think it will remain a niche for the time being, but as sky said it will be back - cheaper, richer and hopefully better thought through.

[Skybird]

I would not call it a flop, it jjst turns out not to be the self-running coin-milking super-business that the industry has hoped it would become easily and quickly. Second generaiton devices have been released already. Its a niche for most players, but one that is alive and slowly growing, as far as gaming in concerned. Beyond games, it still is a niche maybe, but a faster growing one.


I am still with it, and I have not regretted it one day. Racign without VR has become impossible for me to imagine.



It defintiely does better than 3D TVs a couple of years ago. Now that were fast-dying fireworks.

[JU_88]

I would not call it a flop, it jjst turns out not to be the self-running coin-milking super-business that the industry has hoped it would become easily and quickly. Second generaiton devices have been released already. Its a niche for most players, but one that is alive and slowly growing, as far as gaming in concerned. Beyond games, it still is a niche maybe, but a faster growing one.


I am still with it, and I have not regretted it one day. Racign without VR has become impossible for me to imagine.



It defintiely does better than 3D TVs a couple of years ago. Now that were fast-dying fireworks.

Oh Ive tried it (a Vive) an its pretty damn amazing. But for now, i can wait.

[Skybird]

While I am familiar with using virtual cinemainterfaces like Cmoar VR or Skybox VR for playing web- and PC-based media files in VR (Mp4 for exmaple), for whatever the reason is I have so far not tried that for playing a DVD movie that way.



In principle, playing a movie in one fo these virtual cinema ambiences, is a great experience, it reallyis pleasant and I like it a lot even if the movie is not as crispy in picture quality as it would be on the real screen or on a TV screen. My parents like to watrch my bicycle videos that way. Virtually, you have a very huge screen before your eyes, mind you. And that adds tremendously to the immersion. The static theatre ambience around the screen helps to relax the eyes.



I now tried that with a DVD movie, yesterday, and found it to be problem-ridden at first. Skybox VR, one of my two favourite movie interfaces in VR, does not recognize disc-based film formats. Cmoar Vr showed the film, but did not allow to alter language and picture aspect ratio, so it was 4:3 and in English. Not nice. Cine VR, the advertised social virtual cinema, did not play disc-based movies at all.



The way to go was via a workaround. I started the movie in ordinary VLC media player, and launched Virtual Desktop for Oculus as well, for which i have a cinemaxx scenery mod installed. From there I maximised VLC player so that it filled all the virtual movie screen that usually shows the desktop. Et voila, I had my nice virtual movie theatre and full screen movie on the virtual screen.



What should I say - its overwhelming again. I tried it with the opening scenes of Avatar. Yes, on my TV at full HD reoslution the image is sharper, of course, crispier - but here in the VR cinema, the pictures are BIGGER. And you always have that feeliing of being in a cinema. The reuslting impresison is extremely stunning. The spaceshiop falling into orb it aroudn Pandora, the sequnce when the shuttle sdeparates, and the mothership almpost flies out of the screen and into your mouth, then the scenry on the ground - iot doe snot compare to a normal TV setup.


I highly rfeocmmend to try this out, evben more so since you may not be as conservative as me and have any stremamign service for movies yourself (I have not), making it much easier for you to play a movie from your virtual cinema interface of choice.



I love my Oculus VR. :yeah: I will tomorrow look staker again, afetr many years in whcih I have not - and enjoy the mood of sitting in a real small, dark program cinema in West-Berlin again in the mid-80s when I saw it the first time and experienced how it influenced and somewhat changed my life (its hard to overestimate the impression it made on me). And then Blade Runner, of course. I loved to visit cinemas back then, but today there is so much crap filmn stuff in there, and so many cinemas are gone, its a depressing shame.


As usual, using a vent at a comfortable distance is recommended for such long VR sessions.

[Skybird]

Not truely VR-related, but since I got VR mainly for sim-racing two years ago, this news: I am finally complete with my hardware migration. Yesterday, after the other Fanatec stuff that I already have since two years, I finally got the manual shifter as well. Last shifter I had was the G27, as I said: two years ago. In these years: paddle-shifting even in cars with manual gear boxes - Bäääh!

That now delivers the full sim racing hardcore experience. And no, I will not get a motion rig. No space. No cockpit frame or cabin construction - beside the space problem again, why would I? I am racing with a VR mask on my face. Fancy wheel rims or cabin constructions are of no visual use to me.

https://i.postimg.cc/T10YMbL1/IMG-20191111-141027.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/T10YMbL1/IMG-20191111-141027.jpg

Good stuff, this Fanatec gear, btw. Can only recommend it. The shifter is full metal construction inside and outside, easy to switch between sequential and H-pattern (an issue of seconds), and the mechanism can be set from super-light to very hard. It also has serious weight. And a clever mounting that does not need as many screw holes in the outer casing as one would expect, still sits rocksolid.

I used to think in past years that the asking prices for this kind of gadgets is not worth it, is exotic, and too ga-ga. Lets face it, for the costs of these input devices alone other people will buy two ordinary household laptops or one to three ordinary household tower PC. But it makes a difference, really. I allowed myself to change my mind and get convinced. And the wheelbase is not even at the high end of the price index. Their new direct drive bases cost 3-4 times as much as this one.

[Skybird]

I paste and copy my posting here. If you have VR and Wreckfest, you should try this!!!

But before I start: a shifter with hard spring settings is so wonderful in this game. There is some animalitsic satisfaction to be gained from slamming in with raw power the next gear of my new Fanatec SQ 1.5 while bumping into somebody else or accelerating with all the dust and car pieces flying around you. It feels brutal. It feels dirty. It feels fitting perfectly well. https://forum.sector3studios.com/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png Its like letting a fist fly and it lands right in the face of the guy in front of you. It feels like fresh meat before your feet, and the club still dripping with blood in your hand. It feels goooaaad! Note to myself: "Wreckfest. Shifter. Nobrainer. "

----

As we all know, Wreckfest has no VR support.

BUT:

If you have a beefy system (means: strong enough that it can handle both VR running AND Wreckfest running), try to run the game in a virtual cinema mode. I mean launch VR, and start a software like Virtual Desktop. Maybe it also works with the Virtual Desktop of the Oculus app, I have not tried that. I run Virtual Desktop with a Cineplexx cinema mod. And that means: the monitor screen is mirrored on the movie screen, at the (virtual) size of a cineplexx megascreen.

Now: you do not get stereoscopic 3D view that way, of course not but you get the game running in much bigger picture scale than on a monitor. It jumps into your face, so to speak. I can tell you: it is the second best thing to real stereoscopic 3D. It works excellent, and reveals an ammount of beauty in Wreckfest's world that so far had escaped my eyes on a single screen. The wetaher and lighting also worksd out so much better. I am shocked I did not do this earlier.

Why I have not tried that earlier? Because not every game works well this way, on a virtual movie screen. I tried it with The Hunter before, but the hopping movement, the shaking of the view from side to side whenever I walked, gave me VR sickness, although I am usually invulnerable to that. So I had not tried other non-VR games this way, The Hunter was my first and my last experience in "pseudo-VR". So, it depends on the game. Wreckfest works magnificent this way, I did three races á 5 laps each, and I am still alive and well, and stunned by what I just saw!

Try it, its worth it. I will never play Wreckfest on screen again. This is like Wreckfest 2.0 for me.



I will try a few other games in this mode, too, games that maybe promise to be not susceptible to creating VR sickness when played in thsi way. I assume walking simulötors, first person shooters might not be the best choice.

[Skybird]

Hm. I just checked and realised that I have run out of games that could qualify for this cinema screen trick and do not already include a native stereoscopic 3D real virtual reality option. :k_confused: :Kaleun_Cheers: The Hunter and Call of the Wild were the only ones installed that could make sense to be tried.

[Skybird]

I thought I start updates in loose sequence about the state of things with VR games, those titles that I know and that I think work reamrkably well. I do so by trying to find videos that by their format allow assessment of what to expect and whether VR compromises or enahces gameplay. Needless to say: its always the latter. :D

Starting with Eleven Table Tennis, I posted it yesterday in another thread and was off topic with it, so I put it here, for the sake of completeness.
The game has just seen a long-standing Beta now being turned into the new mandatory standard for everybody, with new physics, imo even better realism (would not have thought that possible), and a need to get used to a few new adaptations to resetting options. They plan more changes and new things to come, amongst them a nice new match arena. Eleven for me still is one of the best exmaples of how unbelievably well VR can work if matched with the right software projects. Allows SP and MP. Different to court tennis, table tennis allows you realostic runni8g movements in VR since you do noit nee a whole centreeocurt in your living room. That is why table tennis in VR stresses me physically almost identically to playing it in reality, I really jumpo and run a lot, do not just stand and return balls. But then, I am no good table tennis player at all, and never was. AI can now be set on a percentage scale, from boring to flak-firing challenger beast. Weaknessyes in physics model of the predecessing version, which most players did not notice anyway, have been left behind now.

Superb, excellent simulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSuKYkQd2tY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzh2qjFkZk

[Skybird]

And the big cousin, First Person Tennis. It too is in slow but constant improvement, and has changed noticably over the past two years, and content got added. Like Eleven's developer, this one too cares for his baby. The gameplay obviously makes compromises, all leg work necessarily must be worked around by game mechanisms, since real tennis depends a lot on running the line up and down, and that is hard to do in a living room. The method by which FPT does it, works surprisingly well, but gets a little bit used to. Since you do not swing a real racket with real mass and weight, swinging the VR grip feels differently and needs more discipline in beign precise in holding it to correctly appaly Topspin and Slice as you wish to see. A real racket stabilises your strike by its mass, a VR grip is more instabile since it is so light in weight.

You can run this as a relaxed ball-returning entertainment game, but if you want to play competitive, you need the force and speed in your strikes, and that means you need to apply according power to your swings, and then it indeed becomes sweat-producing. Also your foot positioning to the ball when striking, is as important as it is in reality. I use to have a small round tile laying on the centrespot of my playing space that I can search for and easly find with my foot to recentre myself after every ball exchange - else I would be in serious danger of bashing my living room into tiny pieces. Youtube videos usually show guys just standing there and do slight, almost desinterested movements with their right arm. Believe me, if you want to powerserve and play with force, that is not enough, you really must put power into your moves, seriously. And then it changes into a completely different ballgame. The legwork is not there (the computer slides you instead, the alternative is a sudden zoom to a new position but I find that disorientating), but arms and shoulders, hands and muscle in your sides copy quite some of what the real sports would see in needs and efforts. Also you must quickly jump into the correct stand according to what you play next: Backhand or Forehand. I tend to follow runnign the same drills like I did in real tennis 30 years ago - the sim is easily good enough to reward that by noticable raises in precision of your strikes. No complete replacement for the real sports, though, but still - impressive enough if you play it seriously. You sweat, you need to train your precision and discipline, and it is superb fun. Not for those who want maximum success easily after just learning for 30 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=macFqi1-zlA


For comparison: this is first person footage from a real tennis player with a GoPro on his chest or head. It looks quite similiar in perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEwKVjmANGs

[Skybird]

For the time being, this video where the author presents hs ten top picks of VR games one year ago. It seems I am a bit out of synch, some of what he shows looks very interesting and well-crafted. I think it gives oyu a good overview on some of the top cream in VR gaming. Ten games in 15 minutes, thats one and a half minute insight into every game. Look yourself, and imagine what you see to be stereoscopic 3D. Myself I will check out No Mans Sky in VR, and that chnace to skin myself as John Wick and shoot a little amok in Pistol Whip. That Medal of Honour thing also looks very immersive. Or Half Life. Or The Living Dead. Does one really want to play this in 3D and get the creeps...? :hmmm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGBze66oEk


And for the purpose of another quick overview of the VR game scene:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKr94gsbkzY

[Skybird]

One of the most unknown and underrated VR shooter games imo is still one of the best and straightest out there: A10 VR. Its from 2016, and the yhave not chnage dit since then just added some of the newer headsets. And there is no need toi chnage anything in the forumla: it is transparent, it is straight, and it is marvelously well executed. Draw two pistols and fire away, period.

You get a laser beam wepaon with a fully functional holoscopic aiming sight - it is needed sinc ethis wepaon is a preciison wepaon with single shot per trigger pull. The other is a automatic plasmaball MP sort of thing, with iron sights. Often overlooked: the angle at which the weapons sit in your hands and the sights lining aup when you raise the hand as if yo were hlding anormal wepaonl can be altered in the menu, setting this value up correctly so that it fits your hand anatomy, helps trmedously in precision and also allows oyu qucker and better use of the sights where you use them .

You either fightagainst increasingly frantic waves of attacker that either will explode once they ended their drifting journey and contact you position, or the blitz by and fire projecticles at you while they do. you can and should didge them. The attack zone is 360° around you, though there are some fewer attacks from your back, but you have to watch out. You either buy energy or time (in countdown mode) when hitting or acchieveign a combo. Thats all.Sounds simple? It is simple. But it is tremendous fun, and works flawlessly. Just do not use the trainign mode: it starts lame, and it stays lame, it doES NOT IMPROVE SPEED OR ACTION INTENSITY, AND SO PEOPLE CAN GET A VERY WRONG IMPRESSION OF TRAINING IS THE FIRST CONTACT WITH THE GAME THAT THEY HAVE, i READ THAT SOME PEOPLE GAVE UP ON IT DUE TO THE TRIANING MODE, beign bored, later learned about the real gaming modes: and got baptise dinto believers immediately.

I use to play this for 5-10 minutes after I had my 1 hour table tennis session (which i have 2-4 times per week), its a nice way to cool down again.

Also, it is cheap. Very. The low price for this simple but flawless game is why I am tempted to call this a must have. But maybe it is just personal taste, so I don't. I am chuckling about myself that I still like this, since I usually do not play such pure action games anymore. Oh, and one word on the shooting: it works precise and very very good. I have tried a few other shooting gallery games that were free or could be refunded over the past two years, I found the virtual weapons always remaining to be artificial, unfitting extensions of my hands, the aiming never felt natural, shooting from the hip was even more "strange", unsatisfactory. Not so here. I raise the arm and hand and shoot and the bullets just go where I want them to go (without the game cheating or influencing the targetting in my favour). It all feels just so very right.



Space Pirate may be close, and better known, contender, but I like this one much better.


You need a setup where you can turn 360°. In case of a headset with external sensors: two sensors. One works unreliable, I found.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf78Tfhtitw

[Skybird]

Racket NX is one of my all time darling games in VR, and quite some people dare to claim this to be the best vR game they know. Its a flawless execution of a simple concept: play Squash with a mild flavour of Pinball spice added and smack that ball against the half-sphere of a dome you stand in. Play at all directions, 360°, up and down, high and low.. Have targets to be hit that give you energy or time, have penalty targets that you want to avoid to hit. Play single player or multiplayer. Swing the racket, and play gentle and slow, or smack it to crash throuhg that enegry obstacle, or play with spin and effet.


If there is a game that remindsofo the lightgames in Tron, this it is.


Its one of the sports games that can only be realised in a virtual reality, not in the real world. The ball is an energy ball, the playing field interacts with it in a way a rubber ball thrown against a stone wall never could. The feel of smackinjg the "ball" with your racket is incredibly satisfactory. Everything in this game is about right, its close to perfection. A clever indicator below your feet shows you your centering psoition and whether you are in threat to get entangled by your cables or not by spinning aorund your axis too much. You need good space and full 360° movement freedom, this game really gets played at ALL directions. The game has levelled challenges, the action ranges from fair and lazy to insanely hot, time pressure can become mean on highest levels. The crystal looks of rackets have somethign very addictive to them.

The game impacted on the scene when it came out, and became a great success from annoucnement day on. If you play it ambitiously, it can brign your heartrate up a little bit. I do not want to exaggerate the sporting effects of VR sprt games, it always depends on how much heart and ambition you out into it and how good the game is, but good VR games can give you a mild to medium workout. Nothing to repalce reality with, but then also nothign to just look down on. Most people however play these tigns quite relaxed, and standing. When i play these games and swing a racket, I tend to rewally let my racket fly with power. For one simple reaosn: I enjoy it much better this way if I put physicla effort into it, and do not just stand there and move my hand occasionally.

The first video illustrates cooperating in multi player from external view, the second shows how it looks form player's POV.

A must have for VR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agPPxSjMhG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyUsksEBGhw

[Bilge_Rat]

Anyone try Half Life Alyx? the new VR only Half Life game.

I had it on my wishlist and picked it up on sale.

I was not sure what to expect, but so far it is the best VR game I ever played, beautiful, immersive and terrifying!

I was not sure my system was up to it (RX Vega 56, Oculus Rift CV1, Ryzen 3700x), but gameplay is smooth and graphics 1st class.

I use VR mostly to play DCS and IL-2, but you can't beat a game which was designed from the ground up in VR.

[Skybird]

I do not play it/have it, but I saw a video about it and heard only very good things about it. Many seem to agree it is the best VR game out there currently, so you are not alone with your opinion.

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o_ENhes17g

[Skybird]

When FB renamed itself to Meta some weeks , soon after that they seem to have announced (I missed it) that they want to get rid of the enforced FB account for Oculus users. In Germany, several lawcases are runnign against them due to several violations of German and European laws that forbid doing so, the EU also runs two cases against FB over this issue. I mean against Meta. Hach, to hell with it, its Facebook no matter how much psychobabble and glossy advert-talking they do.

That is nice news if true, it may happen early next year and would allow me to stay with my Rift beyond end of next year. My system now is four years old and by the end of next year would be five years, and actually I am not craving for anything new and more powerful performance, it still runs smooth and stable and gets all done that I throw at it. I have just invested in a midlife extension update :) and migrated my secondary HD with all the games on it via Macrium rEflect to a new HD twice as big and being new, and I would not oppose the idea to stay with this system for several more years to come. When I finally one day get a new one, Windows 11 birthing issues hopefully have been dealt with, and the more serious later-coming issues already have shown up to make my boring life more interesting again. :D

Still, will not recommend never again no more to buy no Oculus not. :D Technically they might be good and I was satisfied with my Rift (until recently the earphones stopped working and I must use external ones), but I absolutely dispise the Zuckerberg corporation and its customer hostile policies.

[Skybird]

A ncie vidoe that films throughn the lenses of headsets to illustrate the difference in resolution, screendoor effect and colours. The comparison starts at 2:30.

A lot has chnaged since the Oculus Rift. I damaged mine yesterday, and the cable conneciton is no more reliable. :arrgh!: I need to replace the set :/\\!!. I ordered the G2 with two contorllers - for 500 coins. I hope my system can make use of it: it 8700K, 32 GB RAM, 1080TI (13 GB). The graphics board is the possible weakness in the setup. I must wait until next week and until then: pray. I will miss the Rift controlelrs, they were very, very good. The g" is my chpice due to the superior reslution and lowest screendoor effect. Its inferior colour in parts can be compensated for with according colour profiles and contrast settings, I hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny_OPsxHQmU&t=521s

[Skybird]

The Facebook nightmare seems to be confirmed now to be over. According to this text from end of October, the mandatory FB account to use Oculus devices, has been cancelled or will get cancelled soon for sure.

https://kotaku.com/hooray-oculus-quest-devices-no-longer-require-facebook-1847963909


Would not get another Oculus device again anyway. They are not bad, but I hate the company behind it. If all goes well, tomorrow I can hold a G2 in my hands. Then see how it runs. I hope the framerate remains well.

[Skybird]

Holla die Waldfee, that really makes a difference! I connected the G2 today, and different to so many others I had no problems and my rig recognizes it nicely. I needed no cable replacement and had no issues. Thje cable is 6m by default, btw.

The image is - I had not expected this, it is really very good, very sharp, and no recognizable mosquito mesh/screendoor effect, its really very impressive. Colours are nice, too, so is the sound. It wears more comfortable than the Oculus Rift, not that the Rift was bad, but this one wears better. The controllers are not as good, do not look as sturdy, and I so far fail to get them work properly with Google Earth VR.

So far I am pleased. Raceroom worked fine. I have not yet tested the hardware killer applications like ACC and FS, possible that there I need to tune down things.

But the image quality for itself - very very good. No comparison when you come from a Rift.


For the prices you usually pay vor VR headsets with controllers, it also was cheap, 500 coins. Compare that to a HTC Vive.

[Skybird]

Time for a brief review, just in case any other updaters read here.

I run an i7 8700K with 32GB, and a GFX-1080TI (factory OC, 11 GB). Bought in autumn 2017, together with the Oculus Rift of that time.

Mind you, the Oculus Rift has a resolution of 1080x1200 per eye. The G2 Reverb has a resolution of 2160x2160 per eye. That is a hefty much more in pixel loads that have to be calculated. Any concerns about getting stuttering when not also upgrading 4-5 year old PC and gfx hardware, are valid and understandable.

At "simple" titles like Google Earth VR, A-10 VR, Katana X, Derail Valley, Eleven Table Tennis and Pinball FX2 VR, it just does not matter, at highest resolution there is just smoothness, no stuttering, far deeper-reaching depth of view and the obvious absence of the feared screendoor effect (the mosquito mesh you see in older headsets). God rays are also almost completely absent. Contrast and colours is at least as good, I think even better. Compared to the Rift, its almost new ball game!

Now the challenging titles: racing sims. Especially the new ones are well-known notorious hogs on hardware, and here especially the G2 has a reputation to also be the hog of hogs.

I first tested with Dirt Rally 2. I had to slightly reduce ingame graphics options, and in dense forests with plenty of trees close by I have a very mild ghostign effect when turning sharply in tight 90° turns and hairpins, thats all. I get better resolution and black colours at night. The overall experience is better, you see more from the world, the sky, the clouds. Passed!



Next, European Truck Simulator 2. Oh that dramatically imporoved immersion! The betgter textures in the beautifully rendered skies! The visible traffic signs that actually can be red form a disdtance now! Its all fanfares and vivid flags in the stormx wind, its great. A very, ver ymild ghosting when you look 90° to the left and right, havign items there moving by very fast. Usually youz look forward when riding on the Autbahn, so that is a minor issue you almost never get reminded of. Passed! The ETS2 world and weather and sunsets look beautiful!


Then came Wreckfest, running in 2D on a huge 3D VR cinema screen . Higher resolution, plenty of more details to be seen, brighter images - FANTASTIC. In sharp turns and dense packs, again a very mild ghosting, nothing that irritates me. Its a feast to the eyes. Passed!

Next level, Raceroom Racing. And again I had to do just very minor options adjustements and again got a playable experience with much better depth of view and details and again a very mild ghosting only in tight, fast moving turns, the ghosting is visible at the horizon, not on cars close by, or buildings. I am stunned! Passed!

Now came the critical candidates, the two Assetto Corsas.

Classic AC - I did not expect it to run too well, but actually, it does run marvellously well, i did not had to tune any options, and it ran nicely "out of the box". And that with the now much more detailed display of dashboard and outside world, and longer viewing distances and no screendoor effect! It looks great! Passed!

Finally Competizione. Here is where the complications began.

When you switch from an Oculus set to a non-Oculus set, you also switch from the Oculus VR-interface to the the Open VR/Steam VR interface. And ACC seems to hate openVR, I am not the first who ran into troubles. In Oculus VR, the Rift worked nicely, but the same low-res Rift headset in Open VR already stuttered like hell. But the G2 in Open VR (does not work in Oculus VR, obviously) declared immediate war on me: 2 fps and a latency of 1-2 seconds spoke volumes. It was a desaster. Reducing options in game and in nVidia driver and in Steam VR interface, also reducing resolution in Steam VR to that of the Rift, almost, all that did not help. Not before I tested 9 different nVidia drivers and finally found an older 45x.xx one, I managed to get it running, at drastically reduced resolution. The image in the G2 in ACC now is as good or bad as that I got in the Rift, and the resolution is as low, but the title is playable, and that is what I hoped for. As I said, ACC is a hardware hog, a real mean pig for any computer system, I hoped for and did not expect to get more than just what I had in the Rift. And that is what I finally got: no gains, but then also no losses. Passed. Just so, but passed.

In FS20, another title that almost rapes the hardware, I had to reduce graphics options in general, and am limited to flying in simple planes with simple, non-complex cockpit-avionics: open cockpits and such. Small planes with "unmodern" avionics. Then it indeed is great. Well, in FS2020 I could not expect more than what i now get. Honestly said I am surprised that my 1080TI and the G2 can even get FS20 running at all.

So, in a summary: almost all titles I play in VR with the Rift do not just run in the new headset as well, but - sometimes more sometimes less expected - benefit from it, even the more demanding racing sims. Its all gains and plusses, until ACC, where I at least managed to maintain the status from the Oculus Rift, so while there are no gains, there also are no losses in ACC's case, and playability assured. In FS20, I had to trade visual details for playability, but that is not really surprising for me. Heck - its a GT-1080TI only, and it needs to push 3.6 times as many pixels as before!

I like the new headset. It wears more comfortably, and needs no external sensors, but the controllers are bigger, and feel less quality-like. However, they work, but because the tracking is done by headset's own cameras and not external sensors, you need correct light conditions in the room and the headset must "see" the sticks. I can play table tennis with it, but learned to change hand position and hold the hand accentuated before my body, to make sure the helmet sees them. Thats a difference to the Rift, the Rift system is more complex a setup, more cables and connectors, but regarding tracking of handpieces it works a bit better. In cockpit of cars however, this is irrelevant.

I bought the bundle of helmet and two grips for 500 coins, which is 150-250 less than what it usually costs over here. I am satisfied and actually quite happy with the improved visual quality. The resolution is, roughly rounded, twice as high for every axis. that really makes a huge difference!

The viewing angle, btw, is 4° more than the Rift, so practically the same. Pimax headsets have wider viewing fields, but then costs a while lot more and are not as comfortable to wear, I read, also image quality is not as good. In genertla the G2 is the by far sharpoest resolitiuon, but also one of the headset with the most narrow viewing field. It means no change for me, since I am familiar to it from the Rift.

The G2must be placed on your head with precision, the sweetspot is a bit small. Once you found it, its very sharp. The set does not move. It wears better than the Rift.

The sound is better than I expected after the bad reviews I red. Actually, I find it very good. No complaints from me.

I read that not rarely customers using AMD-based chipsets ran into troubles with the headste not beign recongised. It seems to be an issue with the default cable, HP provides an improved new cable for such customers contacting them. Whether the HP service is working good and fast I cannot tell you, but I know that many people hate their printers. If you own a motherboard with AMD chipsets, its your call.

With 500 coins (where available for that price), the G2 is one of the most competitive price offers on the market currently. You can spend easily three times as much.

[mapuc]

The Oculus Rift has a resolution of 1080x1200 per eye. The G2 Reverb has a resolution of 2160x2160 per eye.

As I see it you could say that Oculus Rift is High Definition and G2 Reverb is 4K.

I've looked at the prices for this G2-The price is to high for me. No doubt at all that G2 is way, way better than Oculus.

Markus

[Skybird]

I tried the new headset on TT Isle of Man yesterday, haven't played it for some weeks before. The game has no included VR, so I have to accept the compromise to have in running in 2D on a stereoscopic 3D moviescreen in a virtual cinema. The huge size and the much higher resolution make a shocking difference again, I did this setup in the Rift's set before, and struggled with driving because I did not see enough detail, now I do, and more, and not only is it a piece of beauty laid out before the eyes, but it makes a huge difference for being able to anticipate track details ahead and not slamming into them as before.


Its a an exquisite, super-speedy adrenaline rush! :yeah:



Steering via an xbox gamepad.



I have not suffered too many setbacks from moving to the new headset, the only game that I cannto reaosnably play in it, is ACC, it simply is too badly optimised for VR (blurry, no mmatter), and is too demanding on the hardware when testing normal race situaitons, it stutters a bit too often. All the rest works well with the imporioved resolution. My fear that I also had to buy a new gfx board just for this headset, was unfounded.

[Skybird]

8000 coins, plus 1000 coins yearly subscription. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOk_M1Ib5F0

[mapuc]

You who have experience in VR what is your comment about this project

One of the main features of SitWalk is its unparalleled compatibility with major platforms - Steam VR. VR games on the Steam platform that can use virtual buttons to move freely are automatically adapted. What’s more, SitWalk is fully compatible with all major VR Headsets, such as HTC VIVE, Valve Index, and Oculus Cosmos. It’s the perfect solution for VR gaming & entertainment!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sitwalk-simulator/sitwalk-vr-simulator-a-whole-novel-intuitive-and-comfort-way

I hope it will be a success for those who are developing it.

Markus

[Skybird]

Interesting, but the experience of movement must be extremely counterintuitive due to the exotic motion control. I would be more interested in something like this (if I Had tbe free space) :
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/katvr/kat-walk-c2-all-action-and-cross-platform-vr-gaming-treadmill?ref=recommendation-projectpage-footer-1

[Catfish]

This Varjo VR: 8000 bucks, and 1000 "subscription"? Thanks but no thanks.
Maybe it will get a bit cheaper in the next years? :o


So you can plug an X-Box gamepad into a PC andd it works? Was new to me. :up:

Maybe i aksed before, i take it e.g. for A. corsa you'd better use a USB-steering wheel and some clutch/break/accelerator "footset".
Which products would you advise.. i am in the process to build a new PC to replace my 11-year-old one, and some periphery :hmmm:

[Skybird]

That depends on your budget, so as long as oyu gave no number, I only give two general tips:

1. Wheel rims and button boxes are for immersion only, they do not make you faster. Wheelbases vary in quality of FF (output power, subtelty of feedback).

2. But good pedals, and here especially a good brake pedal, preferrably with a so-called load-cell, WILL make you faster. Becasue you do not mess up your breaking as easily as with a soft sprinbg pedal where you nconstantly break too much and lock wheels.

Thats why I always would recommend the best Fanatec pedal they have, although there are cheaper ones by Fanatec, the Club Sport Pedal version 3.

There are top class pedals by other manufacturerds that cost even more and are eve nmore robust and solid, but I do not know them, and they are meant for fixed installation in cabion simulators, else they would move too easily.

Here are some complete packages by Fanatec, at - for Fanatec - reasonable pricing. My CSL Elite wheelbase is no longer produced, they only have DD bases now. Even the smallest of them should give the user a signficantly stronger and subtle reaciton what even the best belt-drive.

https://fanatec.com/eu-de/komplettpakete/


[edit: sorry, all but one are sold out, the say]



And in this thread
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=250766
you can see that I am obviously very happy with the two wheelrims I use. The GT3 rim is very fairly priced (200 coins) and offers incredible bang for the buck. The R300+Universal Hub is much heavier - but the wheelbase can easily handle it as well, I was surprised.

P.S. You said Assetto Corsa, which I know well. I recommend you also Competizione, which does thoise things that it does better than anyone else, and Raceroom. Even Wreckfest (it has reasonably believable physics, do not be misled by the name), and Dirt Rally 2.

If you ever plan to go VR (recommended for sim racing, its what VR was meant for), plan to have some system reserves. When I had to replace my VR set last winter, and updated from Rift to G2, I was worried about my graphics board (GTX1080), since the pixel load is several factors higher. To my surprise and relief the system had those reserves when I build it 2017, that so far were not used, but now there is good use, and the migration to a new VR headset went smoother than I feared. Indeed I am extremely happy with the new set. The difference is stellar, the image quality is superb. Got it with two handles for 500 coins.

Really, if you go for a new system plan for VR. Google Earth/Streetview in VR alone is worth it. I myself would even pay monthly subscription for it, serious. I have done a hilarious ammoujnt of world travelling, and I am very thankful for this software, absolutely. Its magic. The Streetwalk videos I linked to some weeks ago, in a VR movie cinema are magic as well. Unbelievable how you get sucked in.

[Catfish]

This is good advice

The McLaren GT3 seems to be the best, also of course for the price.
The club sport pedals .. hmm
Will first look for a new system, but ask for this and a proposal i already have, in the appropriate PC Hardware thread.
Unfortunately prices are a bit high now and i do not expect them to come back ..:hmmm:
Thank you :up:

[Skybird]

Be my guest... :03:

I understand your hesitation, since I worked my way upwards on the price ladder myself and was not always able nor eager to afford what now I could afford and would not drive without anymore, and 20 years back it also was not available. I had a MS Sidewinder FFB Wheel, and then a Thrustmaster Ferrari something wheel, and they had limited 270 and 450° rotation (in total) only and cheap duo-pedals, I next got a Logitech G27, which probably was the best bang-for-the-buck complete package with wheel, triple pedals and shifter and indeed I liked it a lot but everything, from springs to FFB, was just too soft, and finally I got the Fanatec stuff. Everytime I climbed up on the price ladder, but every time I also found the additional spending worth it. I could not imagine to have spend almost 1000 coins on such stuff ten years ago, today I see that there is justification in it: quality, that is, but quality of course does not mean it is affordable for everone.

If somebody has a limit of say 1000 for everything racing related , but does not often drive at all, I even would recommend to not go for this expensive Fanatec stuff, instead get some complete wheel-pedals pack (G29 or so) for not more 500 - and spend the other 500 on the G2 VR set. VR makes all the difference, it opens the gate into another level of racing, no screen and no triple screen can get even close to it. Its a game changer.

One last tip, on the shifter. Its not essential, but especially in AC, it adds to immersion. But only if it is a real good shifter, no light plastic toy thing. Setting my Fanatec shifter both to very hard or to very soft has something satisfactory in it if you throw in the next gear with harsh force and thin lips - or with just a casual, elegant swing in your handwrist, and AC strongly interacts the shifter with the clutch pedal, you can ruin your gearbox quite quickly if you do not do it right. It has something very satisfactory in it, but I admit: I mostly do not use the shifter even in older cars that had one. So, shifter probably is the last item on your driver's list, if you find the money laying on the pavement... If you go for it, go with a real good one - or dont bother to even start looking for one. Its all in, or all out.

The G2 VR has excellent resolution. No screendoor effect. The tracking cameras are in the headset, which means it is not the best solution if you plan to play things where very fast but accurate handmovement is key (table tennis for example depends desperately on precision here), then a set with external cameras might be better suited for this more general approach, but if cockpit things are your thing where you stay seated or where you move hands and legs more relaxed and do not focus on utmost precise and superfast hand movements like for table tennis, then the G2 is possibly currently the best deal possible. The Steam hardware has excellent tracking, but it costs a very lot more. The Pimax masks on paper have even more resolution, but they have other disadvantages, and depend on top GFX boards. Now look at the costs for top GFX boards, and start crying.

I got mine not at Amazon, but Mediamarkt, they beat the Amazon price by 150 bucks back then. Handpieces cannot be bought separately, so before buying the even cheaper only-helmet offer, think twice. You cannot ugrade later. Its a stupid offer they make, for many other things you simply NEED handsticks, Google Earth and such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-66YlpcZNpI

[Skybird]

One of the first and still most impressive VR experiences I made, was "Air Car". I came to experience it on the Oculus Rift, and for long time it was a Rift-only title. When I had chnaged my VR set last christmas for the G2 Reverb, I lost it - I thought.

I have meanwhile found that the title is no longer Rift-only, and is beign worked on, still. In the G2 with its higher resolution, it looks stunning! :yeah: I like to have it back.

Its not a game, just an experience, a way to relax, you hover aorund in a futuristic Blade Runner-style city, in a Blade Runner-style flying car. And you look around and enjoy the sights and the experience and if your stomach is hard enough you do some fancy flying stunts. Thats it. There are many demonstrators like this for VR . What sets this apart is that while you do not "play" it often or all the time, you nevertheless keep coming back to it every couple of times. There have been clones who showed up, but none of them, as far as I saw them, came close to this one.

The Reverb'S handsticks had to be adapted via a mod, it took some mtime for me to found out.

G-Police, anyone...? ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT73Q4pyCcA

[Skybird]

Is VR practical in DCS?

You bet it is!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkxJaXP3ls

[Oubaas]

VR is absolutely essential for flying helicopters in sims like DCS and X-Plane. That and a set of actual helicopter controls, i.e., cyclic, collective, anti-torque pedals. I wouldn't even bother if I didn't have those things.


VR is also excellent for racing and fixed wing flight simming. And space sims, by which I mean simulators that do their best to recreate real life space programs, NASA, etc.


Beyond those categories, a nice, big, curved monitor is better. I don't like having a brick strapped to my head, or having to install their software.


I have both an HTC Vive Pro and an Oculus Rift S. The difference in visual quality is not enough to justify spending the money for the Vive Pro.


The HTC software is a nightmare. The Oculus software comes from Metaquest, which you can read as, "Facebook".


More and more of my VR games are suddenly becoming playable on monitors, despite being VR-only when released. Developers have seen the handwriting on the wall and are patching their VR-only titles that are successful to work with monitors as well.


The only thing for which I find it indispensable is flying high-fidelity helicopter simulations. But you need helicopter controls, too. Trying to use your Warthog or whatever is pointless. Trying to fly computer helicopters without VR is pointless.


So unless you're adamant about flying high-fidelity helicopter sims, don't dump a lot of money into VR. I don't think that it will be around much longer. I do have use for it with my helicopters. I love it for that. And I enjoy it for fixed wing sims, racing, and space sims. But I think it's going to go the way of the dinosaurs.


Maybe when they can make a headset that's wireless and like a pair of comfortable sunglasses, and that actually features some visual clarity, it will rise from the ashes. But right now, it's an albatross.

[Skybird]

VR is for certain game genres, but not for all. This will not change much even with higher resolution than today.


A very ghood compromise between visual qulity and price is the G2 Reverb. As I qwrote earlier however, in games where precise and fast handsaet ztracking is needed, it is not so good. But in seated cockit surroundings it is the VR set of choice, imo. The visuals are so good that I indeed these days prefer to watch a movie bluray or DVD in VR with a cinema environment, not on huge TV.


Also, VR market still is in steep climb, not stagnating or even dropping at all! I wonder where you got that impression. What is an obstacle for some is not the limitations of VR, but the high costs of many sets.

Just one example of many:

https://www.androidcentral.com/gaming/virtual-reality/quest-2-units-sold-spring-2022


VR continues to break records as Meta's Quest 2 headset leads the pack, now eclipsing the 14.8 million units sold mark according to new data provided by the International Data Corporation, or IDC for short. That same report shows that VR sales grew 97% in 2021, with Q1 2022 bringing that number up to a whopping 242% growth.


German Amazon offers the G2 with handpieces for 650-700 Euros. I got mine half a year ago for 500.

[Skybird]

I always wanted to check this one, and always it somehow dropped of my radar screen again, but now I got it for 8 coins, and boy, is it a good one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EesbcAW5FZo
I usually do not like RTS games, they are too hectic, and this one is, too, but the VR setting, the flawless interface and cute cartoonish grpoahcis style that puts a girn on your face that for the whole batgtle never goes away make this one different. I say this is an almost perfect execution of a concept for VR gaming, and its one of the best VR games I know. Handling is absolutely intuitive. You get started within 3 minutes, or less. Promised.

Dont forget to zoom yourself to ground level instead of just hovering like a deity above the clouds. If you put the virtual boots of your avatar then you are in the thiockest action you cna imagine, anmd right in the centre of it, and all bright lights and louds sounds will be VERY big and huge to your senses!:D

Funny little home-made chaos here - thats what cooking in the kitchen should be like! And a perfect game for showcasing VR. Costing just 8 coins, its a steal.

[Skybird]

Time and again people say VR has seen its climax and already is on its way to insignificance again. I never agreed with that. What I see since 2017 is growth of demand. Not exploding growth, but steady growth.


Global shipments for VR headsets jumped 241.6% in Q1 compared to the same period last year, with continued demand and easing supply driving growth. For the full year, IDC expects to see 13.9 million VR headsets ship, up 26.6% from the year prior.
According to the research firm, sales should surpass 20 million units in 2023, and the average selling price should hit its peak. Consumers next year should benefit from next-gen headsets -- from Meta, but also from Pico and Sony.


https://www.zdnet.com/article/2023-will-be-a-pivotal-year-for-vr-which-headset-will-you-buy/

[Skybird]

The following is a 360° video, so it begs and yells for watching it in VR.

Its the Kurfürstendamm in the present, at dawn, with fading daylight, and full christmas lights. This makes for a beautiful light composition. The guy shooting it does so with the camera on his helmet while he is on bicycle, so you have the viewing angle of a standing person, the speed of a comfortably driven bicyle, and all movementt around you nevertheless being natural. He has a channel with dozens and dozens of such videos, thats good, but many videos shoot boring or imo uninteresting places, thats not so good, but I know which ones are the interesting ones, that is good again. This film is nice, due to the lights and warm yellowish colkours and the tiem of day. At daylight the chaussee seems to have eb ocme a very soul-less place, I have seen many videos of that now.



If you have no VR, watch it at maximum 4k resolution even if your screen supports only HD, due to the 360° shot the many pixels on a 1080-screen make a crispy picture that softens up if you set resolution to 1980 in Youtube options. So, use the 2160. Better: use VR.



Enjoy! I did, bathing in the warm lights.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAZGNLpuY8

[Skybird]

Today I have just had one of the best and most amazing VR experiences since the starting phase of my VR journey in late 2017 - I was stunned and blown away as intensely as back then I was stunned by Google Earth VR and Streetview VR. After having checked a bit on whether my G2 Reverb and its handheld controlpieces would work with it, I decided to try Vermillion VR. Its an oil painting simulator, so to speak, and as I said: it blows the mind, that good it is. Intuitive handling for the most, and for my layman perception at least: more than enough realism. I have not dive dinto the options the browser offers, you can set up an included internet browser while sitting in your virtual atleier, and follow for example youtube painting practive lessons. You cna copy am image of yours onto the canvas, lower the colour saturation and fade its contours and then use this as shadow of the former image as an aid to bring the rogh lines of forms and objects onto the canvas, then delete the image and manually paint, as if you had used charcoal to draw a sketch first - the only detail that I wa smissing in this first session with vermillion: charcoal. But there are workarounds to sketch initial outlines of the picture you are painting. All hanbdling feels extrenely natural, you can easily alter the way in which yoruvirtual hand holds the brush or palette knife, alter angles, size, stiffness of brushes, mix colours on the palette - it is easy, it is iuntuive, it is done like you would do it in real life - breathtakingly good! I rate this as a must-have and a VR reference title. As a simnulation of a real world topic, its also top ranks, like Eleven for table tennis is, the cinema themes for Virtual Desktop are to watch you mirrored desktop and from there a Youtube or DVD movie on the big movie screen, or Google Earth VR and Google Streetview VR.

Superb software, big time find today! :yeah: I am no painter, but maybe now I become one. :D But that woudl need MY work - the software doe snot turn me into one automatically. What it does is it privdes me with a fullscale atelier and all tools and materials needed to start in painting in oil. And no messy workplace that needs to be cleaned up after you are done!

I wonder if somebody will do a similar program for watercolours, and or pastels? I played around with both a little bit in my young years. The flooding we had 2014 literally washed away the around one dozen of pictures I had left. No loss in quality maybe, but a sentimental one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHue1qcBpCQ

P.S. Yes, the paintings can be printed, either from within the software, or, if optimisation is needed (its about the pixel scaling), via external workarounds that are explained in video tutorials. Video tutorials play a big role in this simulator anyway.

A beta (that I am not interested in) also allows "multiplayer". Hm. Painting in multiplayer invokes some wild fantasies, doesn't it ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBoq_qCt9ss

[Skybird]

If you fly FS, you might know this guy, he does a lot of FS videos on youtube, but he too fell for Vermillion. Beside being a bit hectic, he shows plenty of the handling details which are good to know, for it gives you an idea of what degree of control you have in this sim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyO0dT9EzU

[Skybird]

I spent most of the day throwing paint at the canvas. I don't claim I know what I do, but doing this and testing what effects the various brushes do when holding them like this or that and using them in different ways, established my mood for laundhing into a stabile orbit. I now "play" this not seated, but standing. It makes the feel of it and the handling of the stands and positioning myself as I need in relation to the canvas for the next stroke so more natural. It all runs and is being handled so naturally, intuitively, its incredible.

Just read some of the comments:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6MADCm74GI


The cartoon man is not part of the simulator! ;) But a brilliant idea and a damn good execution to make this tutorial in this way.



Promoted this sim to the ranks of the best of the best of VR titles so far. :yeah:

[mapuc]

I'm truly envy I wish I could afford a decent VR.

A decent VR cost thousands of Danish Kroner.

Example Oculus Quest 2 128 GB 3699 :- Egal 500 Euros

Markus

[Skybird]

Here is a channel of a guy who has plenty of individual tutorials on Vermillion, not doing full paintings, but for exmaple explaing browser and prjector functions, brushes, and so forth. Very helpful. This software has some ridiculously good and well-designed options.



Full playlist:


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdjlWkdljxM2FNaFFn4HMzbobVnhyBnOJ (https://www.youtube.com/@ShamelessMayhem/videos)


What is Vermillion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrIhBpQiQoo&list=PLdjlWkdljxM2FNaFFn4HMzbobVnhyBnOJ


I'm truly envy I wish I could afford a decent VR.

A decent VR cost thousands of Danish Kroner.

Example Oculus Quest 2 128 GB 3699 :- Egal 500 Euros

Markus
Plus your computer and gfx card must have the needed muscles - or you go with the Pico 4 headset, which seems to be the newer - and better - "Quest 2". It is more or less independent from a PC, and features the resolution of the G2 Reverb (2180x2180 per eye). However, another must-have app that is non-negotiable for me is Google Earth/Streetview VR, and the Pico 4 I think does not run it.

I cannot recommend any headset that does not run Google Earth + Streetview, Virtual Desktop or equivalent with good and immersive movie hall themes for watching DVD or Bluray movies or Youtube films or own videos from in there, 360° city tour videos, and now Vermillion has joined the ranks of VR must haves. .

To my best knowledge there are no revolutionary new VR headsets announced for next year. So basing on my own personal needs and interests, I can still fully recommend the G2 Reverb. I would buy this one again at present time, if need be (with sticks, it now costs around 550-600 Euros, but availability is limited.



A PC without VR is not imaginable for me anymore (racing sims, and the mentioned must have titles above). :D

[mapuc]

I can also buy a VR glasses to my smartphones. My phone have a gyroscope and other things needed to run a VR game.

Markus

[Skybird]

I can also buy a VR glasses to my smartphones. My phone have a gyroscope and other things needed to run a VR game.

Markus
You mean these cardboard boxes for 20 or 20 Euros? Honestly said I never read anything about them that sounded enthusiastic. With one of these you get what you paid for, which is not much: a cardboard box and two plastic lenses. Save that money, chances are you would be disappointed.



I hope my posts about VR do not make you feel hurt, Markus. I certainly have not the intention to make you feel miserable.

[mapuc]

You mean these cardboard boxes for 20 or 20 Euros? Honestly said I never read anything about them that sounded enthusiastic. With one of these you get what you paid for, which is not much: a cardboard box and two plastic lenses. Save that money, chances are you would be disappointed.



I hope my posts about VR do not make you feel hurt, Markus. I certainly have not the intention to make you feel miserable.

Ohh NO it don't in fact it's an inspiration to what I should buy and not buy.

Some pages back we had a discussion about VR versus 49 inch curved monitor. The feedback you gave me then is worth a lot.

I have a NVIDIA 1060 something 6 GB graphic card. Can't remember what type and speed of my CPU.
This VR I mentioned before the Oculus Quest 2 128 GB It seems to have a memory backup 128 GB which must mean something.

Markus

[Skybird]

And this is a very different way of painting: call it painting in 3D squared. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxtWVkAJTKY


https://www.youtube.com/@Annadreambrush/videos


This can be done with Google's Tilt Brush, costing 20 Euros and being from 2016 (I think), or the community- developed follow-up Open Brush, costing nothign while doing essentially the same.

[Skybird]

Multiplayer! I underestimated what might be possible with this option in Vermillion! Painting classes for exmaple. Demonsbtrations. Getting help in a running painting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Cu4bH41VM^


And this, illustrating the customizability.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9CmCJKaGQM

[Skybird]

Got this in the Steam sale. This is easily one of the very best looking and most immersive VR experiences I have been into so far. No way a 2D video could do it justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lSNmS8nPx4
I use a 45cm sawed-off broomstick and with my thumbs hold the controllers at their rings fixiated to it, it works very good, giving you the feel of a "solid" paddle.
What these videos usually do noit describe is how very very well the pyhsiucs REALLY work. The film makers just paddle wihtout ambition and have the paddle entering just shallow into the water, they move their lower arms unrealstically as if just shaking somebody's hands (especially when using only the controllers without a fixing help like I described). But the real marvel happens when you chunk in the paddle deep, and make realistic full swinging arm movement - then the kayak turns into a flying fish skimming the waves. Steering is done again with the paddles, but also with how you move your upper body, means: by changing the balance inside the boat you can swing the tip gently around at this or that direction, and if you need fast turns, you chunk in that paddle on one side deeeep, and can turn almost in place. Its unbelievably realistic! Add to this the enormous immersion from the photorealistic graphics (I cannot believe that my system still can run these modern progams and at maximum graphics settings...), the water'S behaviour,m currents, waves, watrer spilling over the front of the kayak, the tip diving in, your body movement letting the boat swing kleft, right, rolling gently. The art is to find your rythm, a synchronised movement that constantly adapts to the ever changing water conditions, anbd nit using just yoiur arms, but your whole upper body.



Content-wise this is little more thna jjst a tehc dmeo, you get four areas, can paddle for fun or do races for entering hioghscore lists, so this is hardly worth moe than the reuced price of 15 coins I paid, but these coins it is worth. Definitely! Its also nice gymnastics for your spine and back, your shoulders and necks, if you may have some cramps or minor pain in there.



Very very impressive! Very very immersive! I dream of this combined with a procedurally generated landscape or running it via somethign like Google Streetview for waterways. :)


And remember what I dsaid: ther eis no chance a 2D video can do this any justice. If you ever get the chance to try it in VR, at a friend or so, do it. And then do not "play" it - but do it like you would do in a real kayak, maybe do it while standing, or sitting on a bar stool, do not use a chair with arm rests. You want to freely swing your arms up and wide, and swing your whole body, really.

[Skybird]

Wait - did he say at the end they plan release of "wild water levels"...?? :D
Man, I would will to get ripped off to get more levels for this! And yes, this CALLS, YELLS, DEMANDS and COMMANDS for wild water levels!

[Skybird]

In this video a very good overview is given on the current and recommendable VR headsets available at present since 2022, and the confirmed headset releases for 2023 and the less confirmed but stubbornly rumoured headsets in 2023. Very good documentary and comparison.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0zEO2nFfBQ

[Catfish]

This all looks really nice, but after seeing a new gaming PC costs around 4500 Euros it is getting too expensive :hmmm:

[Skybird]

That depends on two things.

First, how you define "gaming PC". If that is an acronym for "as much performance power as possible, no matter what", then you are right. However, I see it like this. My own rig is over 5 years old now, I bought it in late autumn 2017 and I paid I think around 3000 coins. I invested into some additional performance reserves that in 2D I never would have needed until today, and that I make use of not before quite precisely one year ago, when I had to replace the Oculus Rift with the G2 Reverb and its several times more pixel resolution - and the old rig, four years old, could run it, did not complain. That is an i7-8700K, 32GB of RAM, of which I never have used more than less than the half of it, and a factory-overclocked Asus GTX-1080TI. Compared to new top hardware, that is a fossile by now, still, the performance level of it, outdated by now, nevertheless is perfectly enough to deal with everything I have thrown at it so far, and it does so with medium and quite some high settings in graphics options for VR titles: do not think in vR I have all settings at "low" - far form that.

That begs for one question: would I really need to spend the higher money for a new system with plenty of more performance than this old one? Practically spoken, no. And that opens many options to save quite some money on invidiual components if buying a new system . You can get a good "gaming system" without needing to pay the newest of the newest, the latest of the latest, the most expensive of the expensive. The G2, btw, I bought with 2 controllers for 500 coins. For my needs - sitting stationary in cockpits of various kinds - this model was the best possible deal I could get on the planet, i would not want any other of the currently available headsets. My only loss: Eleven Table Tennis.


Second, VR has its arguments to exist even without gaming. The option to watch any sort of film material, city sightseeing tours at youtube both classical format and 360° format, watch movies - and all that on super-big movie screens or in all-surround! Google Earth and Google Streetview - these two apps are must haves, and I strictly recommend to avoid any headset that does not allow to run these apps unconditionally (I would even will to pay a monthly fee for them, like an abo). This alone would be reason enough for me to always buy VR when buying a new computer, even if I would be tired of gaming alltogether. With the resolution offered by the G2, the argument "watching Hollywood films" is no more in doubt like it still was with the Oculus Rift and its blurry images - instead this option is a kill argument. I have watched Dune and Maverick on the moviescreen this way, and a couple of old movies. I switched between different cinema themes, according to the theme of the film. Its unbelievable! I have not watched Maverick on TV screen before - when the Bluray arrived, I directly went into the virtual moviehall, that good it already works!

I admit, for family sessions it is not practical. :LOL:

I am enthusiastic about the Kayak Mirage above, obviously, but in the end, that is just a gimmick, so are time-killing little games like Pinball FX 2 VR and the likes - nice to have occasionally, and if you do not have them, its alright nevertheless. So is a lot of other games - but not all. Racing for exmaple I do a lot, and I could not go back to monitors anymore. But watching films of all sorts, both DVDs and online, and having Google Earth and Streetview - that alone are fully sufficiuent arguments to have VR.

Now imagine VR and - Flight Simulator. The future is here, and it works. I rest my case. ;)
I recommend: pass on that new E-car for 80,000 coins instead.

[Dowly]

FFFFUUUU- bit the bullet and ordered the HP Reverb G2. :wah:

[Skybird]

First Blood...! I'm sooooo sorrrrie! :D

If you run into issues, ask, if I can, I'll help.

One thing I tell you in advance already: the thing comes with a cable that halfway through has a connector to a second cable. You will ntov eit, a little box. I disconnect the set here when i do not use it, and this way I must not always crawl under the table and to the backside of my computer. Why do I do this? Because Windows Mixed Reality (thats what it tehcnically is) may not recognise the set when you boot the system and the set ius connected. Sounds like a downer maybe, but it isn't, one just has to know it.

Second thing, if you neve rhave run VR before, maybe you find you are prone to "motion sickness". If so, no reason to despair, but you need patience then. Use it with titles that include slow virtual movements only and no wild rides, also, no sudden reverse movement. Also, play per session no longer than you can play without feelig any nausea. And then, form d ay to day, slowly increase the session lengths. The good news is: the brain gets used to it over time, it can and does adapt, but it may take time. - Myself, I now can use the thign for hours, even in wild stuff, and I feel nothign negative at all. Patience if you need to adapot to VR is the keyword. Dont give up too early, but have patience. IF you are prone to motion sickness. Many aren't, and from beginning on.

In titles that leave you the3 chocie amognst severla vR options, you may want to choose "openVR", else "Steam VR". Obviously, not "Oculus VR".

Good news for you, the ´G2 runs Google Earth VR and Google Streetview VR. But you need to start it better form wiothin Steam Home, that is the launcher of the Steam platform, you will learn about it automatically. If you launch it via desktop shortcut, it cna happen that the hand controlelrs do not get properly recongised. All your VR titles that run via Steam, should be listed in that virtual launcher'S display, when you wear the helmet. You will notice it.

I also recommend Virtual Desktop as a must have, check then the steam worksho for it for movie hall themes. Some fo them are better than others, some are extremely good. You need such a vrdfitual desktop to watch movies via DVD player. It mirrors the desktop 1:1 onto the moviescreen.

After having installed the hardware, go and find some software component named "steam_vr_desktop_theatre" (use windows search). Get a shortcut for it on youre desktop. Whenever you find an app working bad or not at all in VR, its worth to try this one. You simply launch this one before you launch the actual app or go into SteamHome.

Sometimes, pürograms need careful GFXC driver settings tuned, else the software performs poorly or even crashes. Ironically sometimes HIGHER settings are the solution to add back stability. It dpeends on your system and graphics card. I only want you to keep in mind this: lower settigns not always give you better VR perofmance (frames) or stability, sometimes lowering certain settings do exactly the opposite. Keep that in mind, experiment.



Windows has an onscreen-keyboard. Find it and have a shortcut for it set up on your toolbar or desktop. You may find that easier sometimes when being in Virtual Desktop mode and browsing, or searchign something on Youtube, than to take of the amsk and use the hardware keyboard.


Never forget that the trackers for the G2 sit inside the helmet. If the helmet cannot see your hands, they will not get corretcly tracked. That is the one weaker side of the G2. I, as well as the video, mentioned it.


Okay, this already have been eight or nine things. But you guys know me... :D

What kind of programs did you have in mind when deciding for giving it a try?

[mapuc]

Now! How much was it this HP Reverb G2 cost here in Denmark? While looking at prices I saw a few question about this set.

Question:
Is the reverb G2 worth buying?

Answer:
Despite issues with refresh rate, controller tracking and the wonky Windows Mixed Reality platform, the HP Reverb G2 is the best bang for your buck in the PC-based VR space. Its high-resolution LCD screens and powerful speakers work well in making compatible games feel more immersive.

The day I win more than a few bucks in the lottery-is the day I'm going to buy this VR set.

Price 6376 Danish Kroner or approx. 860 Euros.

Markus

[Skybird]

Question:
Is the reverb G2 worth buying?

Depends on the purpose. You get extremly good resolution, absenc eof any visible screendoor effect, good hovering ear speaker. You have to accept sub-optimal hand controllers that will fail you in games that need fast and precise hand movement: Eleven Table Tennis, or wide swinging movements with your arms: First Person Tennis.

If you do normal stuff with your hadnd, or plan to sit in car cockpits a lot, then its perfect. The resolution is the killer argument.

Yes, the bang-for-the-buck ratio is beyond competition currently. I got mine one year ago, with two controllers: 500 coins. I did not need to update my GFX board.

[Dowly]

What kind of programs did you have in mind when deciding for giving it a try?Lol, absolutely none. This was an impulse buy waiting to happen for the past two years. :haha:

BTW, do the controllers come with batteries included? And how long would you estimate they last? Might have to get me a recharger. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Lol, absolutely none. This was an impulse buy waiting to happen for the past two years. :haha:

BTW, do the controllers come with batteries included? And how long would you estimate they last? Might have to get me a recharger. :hmmm:
Good question. I urge you to get 4 AA Lithium rechargables and according recharger. One charge keeps you going very, very long, hours and hours. Normal rechargables drop in power to soon, I mean the "Spannung" , current. You want bateries close to 1.5V, whereas normal rechargables have 1.2V. Usually that is no issue, but here it quickly becomes one. Telling by experience.
Beside the already mentioned things, check Aircar. Its free and a very impressive demo, free roaming in blade runner style.



Its always worth to check whether or not it technically works to have a non vr game running in virtual desktop, on the huge movie screen. Some games stutter. Some games make even me motionsick. Some games work. Wreckfest for example is a revelation. Imagine crash races on a screen the size of an IMAXX cinema. That way even non vr games may see stellar upvaluing.

Start slow and mild however, check how it is with motionsickness. Adapt as I described, slowly, if need be. It works.

[Skybird]

Some games need vr being activated in their ingame options. Someneed you to launch them vua Steam launcher and then choosing betwenn various 2D and VR options. Some may still need a command line added in steam properties.

This is Windows Mixed Reality mode, technically. Games have best chances to run properly if launched not via shortcut but from within the vurtual steam home that automatically launches after hardware got connected. Else the controllers might get messed up.

[Skybird]

If you want I get you pointed to some interesting stuff. Sightseeing the world is what VR is made for. And it can be just done - or done in style.



Just make sure you get enough breaks to eat occasionally.

[Skybird]

Special : Virtual Cinemas :Kaleun_Applaud:

I am a big fan of using these: to watch youtube videos in 2D, and watch movies from DVD/Bluray. It adds to the immersion, and gives you so much bigger a screen.

What is it about? You sit in a three-dimensional, stereoscopically displayed moviehall, and watch the content of your choice in traditional 2D on the big white screen like in a real cinema. That way, you can also copy the whole desktop you usually see on your monitor, can operate it with mouse or VR controllers. And with a virtual keyboard (Window's own onboard keybord). Youtube? No problem. DVD, Bluray? you need a harddriuve, and the usual playing software like before. Streaming content? Shouldnt be an issue at all, like without VR. Its all functioning the same way. Thats why it is called "Virtual Desktop".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRfxG3I5F0

Like in real life, you choose not only your wanted film for the evening, but also, if the film is shown in two or three cinemas in your home town, the moviehall of your preference.

These environments come as workshop items for "Virtual Deskptop", which is available in the Steam Shop for I think 12 or 14 coins. I definitely recommend to get this one, its a must have, imo. All these themes are free except just one, which costed me 1 or 2 euros. Thats the big screen you see in the video above, and that comes in a light and a dark theme where the seats and the moviegall are less reflective and less bright. You want that (darker) screen, due to its monumental size (and then play Wreckfest on it...:D ). Its the biggest moviescreen available in VR, as far as I know. It mimics the Highmaxx cinema in Sydney harbour which was teared down some years ago, so you sit in a real historic place!

Highmaxx Cinema Dark Theme
https://i.postimg.cc/xdYKyKS4/cinema-highmaxx.png (https://postimages.org/)

A theme I newly discovered and which I really like a very lot, is this one: I is very immerisve, even has some slowly animated audience, it really gives you the looks of a medium-sized modern every-city-moviehall. The screensize suits almost all opportunities equally well. This one convinces me right because it is not more and not less than just a realstic modern cinema.

Cinema (Modern)
https://i.postimg.cc/Lsch3Sf6/modenr-cinema-1.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/FKLHR6qt/modern-cinema-2.png (https://postimages.org/)

This one is of equal quality, but has a very different mood, reminds more of older-fashioned moviehalls as they were common in the 80s. Small details add to the flair: the popcorn buckets, the cola-cups... A small audience is present. The screenshots are a bit dark. I think its the same author like the one before.

Cinema (Classical)
https://i.postimg.cc/d0L4T2mc/classic-cinema.png (https://postimg.cc/rd2SBtPf)


https://i.postimg.cc/Gp8xpcdc/classic-2.png (https://postimages.org/)


An unspectacular, but well-functioning big screen:


Theatre Large Screen
https://i.postimg.cc/m23Xx3ST/cinema-large-screen.png (https://postimages.org/)



And the last of the bigger screens is this, I use it not a lot, but it is reasonably sized and okay, may come welcomed if wanting a change while using virtual cinemas a lot.

Cinema Screen
https://i.postimg.cc/76bh46kV/cinema.png (https://postimages.org/)



Again, as a reminder: desktops mirrored on the movie screen work and function the same way like the one on your monitor. Except the Highmaxx, all themes are free.

[Skybird]

When i still used an Oculus set, I had access to Skybox VR, a movieplayer with a nice cinema theme, it was very well done both in functionality and visuals for the place it even had the light fading in and out. Its on Steam, but cannot be bought currently, it is under re-development. Only Oculus owners can still buy it, and then in the oculus shop.

Stuff you buy at steam, can be used on all hardware standards, stuff you buy in the Oculus shop, can onyl be used with Oculus hardware even if it is the same title. Beware! Skybox was the only title I ever bought for the Oculus, therefore.

--------------------------


Some movies I may prefer to watch in a more intimate setting, also my own bicycle videos (seeing your own self-shot movie on the moviescreen really lights your candle especially when your name is shown on the screen! :D ), small studio cinemas with seats for 20-40 people only, usually that are films that have no blockbuster-quality graphcis to offer. Or I just want a change. I use virtual cinemas a very lot, and so I indeed change a very lot. I love it.

This moviehall never gets fully dark, but is a piece of art and visual beauty, you will spend the first minutes just with staring at the ceiling. Very nice one. It comes in two versions, in the one you sit in the first row, in the other version you sit behind that on the balcony.

Private Theatre (Grand)
https://i.postimg.cc/CM6g9gmF/Grand-Theatre.png (https://postimages.org/)


This one equals a small studio cinema where they usually show less blockbuster and mainstream films, but more or less "arts" movies from filmmakers with small budgets. It comes in two versions, one with the blue background lights, one with these being switched off. The blue light is nice, but the dark theme is more realistic.

https://i.postimg.cc/mg8Mxj6f/Cinema-Blue.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/DwjWpZ87/cionema-blue-dark.png (https://postimages.org/)


The following themes are more like home ambience and are also more intimate, they offer animated objects and the worlds outside the windows also may be animated a bit. The screens are smaller, like you would expect in a room of that size. Really, they are well done and are nice, worth to bne tried, even more when considering that all the themes I demonstrated here (except just a single one) are FREE. These have the themes of "Toon", "Western", "Horror", "Fantasy".

https://i.postimg.cc/MG1SM3kg/cinema-toon.png (https://postimg.cc/WDpKxn17)


https://i.postimg.cc/T2gt88Vz/cinema-western.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/s2b48Kvf/cinema-horror.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/xTjM6Bty/cinema-fantasy.png (https://postimages.org/)


Virtual Desktop also has several screens and environments on board, two small private home movie rooms amongst them. But I never use them, they are okay, but the one has too small screen size, the other an unfavourable viewing angle. But maybe thats just me and they work fine for others.

All these cinemas are about immerison only, they do not add or substract any functionality.

[Skybird]

And this. A workspace with a view. And what a view! Step close to the glass window, and feel a shiver when looking down!


https://i.postimg.cc/9QfqCT76/office.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Skybird]

Way to go. Way to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51IBgkw3GJI

For the time being I would stick with Virtual Desktop as the to-go-to-app. Even if it gets plenty of Flak for changes in always-online policies recently.

This is the explanation trailer for Virtual Desktop from 6 years ago. Content has been added since then, the app is in constant development. I must say the app has always flawlessly worked for me, both in the Oculus Rift and now the G2 Reverb. I use the Steam version. The developer gets since some month plenty of Flak for having changed some background business policy, I am not in full knowledge of what goes on there, I do not care either, it seems that some DRM stuff was added and made it necessary for the app to work that there always is aninternet connection, they say it does not run without internet anymore, but I do neither care, nor think it was ever any different. I use it a lot for Youtubing, and then I obviously need online connectivity anyway. It is the best way to watch 360° videos that I know of, all other apps I tried for that were more complicated and failed in delivering results.

Virtual Desktop (app)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjE6qXd6Itw

[Skybird]

For a lousy 14 coins I have had a good time with the successor to WarPlane WW1 Fighters, which I played a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJMTmxmTI3g

Its still in early access and obviously some things, namely in controls, still need to be polished, but for 14 coins it already is pretty damn fine - and faster and with better graphics than the first part.

It is neither hardcore simulation like DCS, nor total aracde. The accessability for the player is smooth and fast and easy. The physics are there, well balanced with quick action.

Can only get better! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: VR needs a flying title of any kind to be complete. This is a good contender, like was the first part, WW1 Fighters. Easy to underestimate these games - but it would be a mistake to do so, I think. For what it is, I like it.

[mapuc]

Finally, I can now-Buy the best of the best VR Headset.

I'm thinking on buying this HP Reverb G2 or is there better
(My 6GB graphic card and cpu has to have the ability to pull this VR set)

I can also buy myself a decent Gaming Chair.

Markus

[Skybird]

Is your system up to it? The G2 is no stand-alone headset.

Regarding "best headset", the optics in G2 are amongst the highest resolution, which is a plus, but the set's hand controllers are mediocre in tracking precision. If you plan to play games like Eleven Table Tennis, First Person Tennis, Thrill of the Fight (boxing simulator, and even a good one), Racket Fury Table Tennis, you will have no big joy then, the tracking is infeiror and sluggish with these super-fast and subtle hand movements. If you plan to play games where you are seated in cockpits or have non-superfast and precise hand and arm movements, then it is the best bang for the buck. Its really a matter of whether you do stuff like table tennis and comparable things, or not. I loved Table Tennism but I had to stop palying it in VR with the new set. It needs external tracking, its mandatory, practically.

Be aware that you have to chose once for getting the headset alone, or headset plus hand controllers. The handcontrollers cannot be bought separately! I recommend strongly to get the controllers as well.


A ventilator aimed at your face is probably a must, too. 15-20 cm, something in that range of blade diameters. Even small amounts of sweat aorund the eyes will fog the lenses. Cooling the face is mandatory, therefore. That is the case with every VR set.


In my profile, you see my specs. I would not recommend to have something below that to run the G2. But you do not need that lots of RAM i have, that was a misjudgement of mine (related to video editing).

[mapuc]

My gaming computer is an Azza Yggdrasil 2.2

It's cpu(I think it is) is
AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4GHz.

Graphic card. Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 - 6GB

Markus

[Skybird]

A GTX-1080TI is around 40% higher in benchmark scores than the 1660. I do not want to promise you that you can run the G2 smoothly, Markus. That thing has a lot of pixels.

However: you can see to secure a deal where you can give back the set if it does not work for you. By German laws, in Germany that is automatically the case when ordering in an online shop, and with Amazon i have never had an issue with giving something back if it was no foreign trader than Amazon.

Second, you can see how the set works if you reduce the so-called pixel-density. Even if reducing it to the mionimum it still looks much better than my old Oculus Rioft form 6 years ago. But I run mine at a reduced level, too (without noticing too much difference), so you may not have too much room for further reductions, too.

Theoretically my i7 8700K is slightly faster than your Ryzen, too, but the benchmarks I just saw imply only a very small gap, you need a magnifier to see them, so I would assume the CPU would not be the problem. Guaranteeing it I cannot. Also, its AMD versus Intel. It must not mean but maybe can make a difference - I just do not know.

Your call. If you can give back a bought VR set, and you are really eager to get it, i would say: get one and see if it works well enough. If not, you can give it back. Treat it well during testing, therefore. If your run into questions and problems, ask, I see if I can help or know the answers.

Good luck! :salute:

[mapuc]

Thank you so much for your input..

The money I won will arrive in the beginning of next month. So I will place the order then.

Markus

[Skybird]

You "won"? Horses? Cards? Lottery? :)


You must not answer of course, if you don't want. I'm asking of curiosity only.

[mapuc]

I won in our National State Lottery A little under 300.000 Danish Kroner or 38500 Euro.

Markus

[Skybird]

I won in our National State Lottery A little under 300.000 Danish Kroner or 38500 Euro.

Markus
Aber Hallo! Congrats! Thats a solid win, but maybe keep the number off forums. ;)

[Platapus]

I won in our National State Lottery A little under 300.000 Danish Kroner or 38500 Euro.

Markus


You were always my favorite poster on this board. :D

[Skybird]

For Newbies to the G2 Reverb, some of this might be helpful and answers some questions.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaiCvhM_u8nMzATTJw6svAXCSUoDwNbCC


SteamVR and Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR must be downloaded and installed, if not already installed.

[Dowly]

Regarding "best headset", the optics in G2 are amongst the highest resolution, which is a plus, but the set's hand controllers are mediocre in tracking precision.I concur with this. The G2 is a great "sitting man's" VR, where it falls short vs its competition is indeed the way it tracks not only the controllers but you as a whole. This downside of the G2 is woefully apparent in games like Blade & Sorcery, where you have multitude of large melee weapons you can use. Swinging a Zweihander for example becomes quite wobbly as your other hand tends to go behind your head and thus out of reach of the headsets cameras which track the visible light controllers.


Since you have the money (Congrats!), I'd suggest you to do research on the various VR sets out there. The G2 is a good VR set, but it does have some nasty downsides to it as well.

[Skybird]

Sounds as if you got yours meanwhile, Dowly!?

I hope the things you mentioned, which I think all are correct except one (more on that at the bottom), did not surprise you. I repeated these things several times to make sure that everbyody, if he follows my praise and buys the G2, knows where its strenght lies- but also its weakness. Trakcign the handconbtroller sis somehtign that other sets do betterm, namely those with external - "lighthouse" - tracking.

The video I posted on comparing the headsets of the present has it much right, I think. The Vive is and always was overpriced and is a bit outdated by now, though very precise in hand tracking, they say. The Pico 4 is independent from PC specs, since it processes the VR data itself, but is battery-dependent and the calculating power is limited, so some things do not work in it: Google Earth for exmaple, thats a must have app in my book and thus I will never recommend the Pico 4 general. I assume with ACC and FS it would be overwhelmed, if it even launches them. I think you are also limited to the Pico 4 store and what it offers, though i may be wrong.

This year and for the first months of next year it seems nothing new is announced that represents another clear development leap in VR hardware. The biggest issues in my opinions are that the prices must come further down to not mroe thna the G2'S level, and that independent sets need to ge tthe processing power so that they cna run also the more demandinf apps like Googlm eaerth, FS, and the likes. In other words: standardization of software compatability: onbly VHS. Death to Video 2000, Betamax and the likes.

Quite some of the existing headsets are overpriced, imo. In this regard the G2 offers the by far best bang-for-the-buck ratio, I think.

Myself, I lost table tennis and tennis, yes, but still I have never regretted to have moved from the Rift to the G2. It was a revelation in image quality.

Also, to say this clear: normal tasks that do not demand quick and precise and superfast handmovements like in certain games, can be perfectly accomplished and without compromise with the G2 controllers, although one sometimes needs to find workarounds for compatability issues.

Best advice is to always start software in VR from within the Steam Home, and leave the system time to mount and recognise hardware and controllers before moving to the next software step: Mixed Reality first, then controllers, then Steam VR, then Steam Home. Let the rig always settle down between every step.

Also, Google Earth should be started form within Steam Home, if the Steam version of Google Earth is used, also the controllers get easily messed up.

Dowly, you indicated your whole body tracking is not great. That could be because your surrounding is too dark and needs to be lit up better. The darker it gets in the room, due to fading daylight for example, the wobblier it indeed gets. If the cameras can see the surrounding place clearly, then I have absolutely no difference to the flawless body and position-in-space tracking of the Rift, and the G2. Light up your room. I say this because I do not have your described problem when I light up my room, your issue is then non-existent for me.

[Dowly]

To put you at ease, I didn't get the G2 based on this thread. :up:



Dowly, you indicated your whole body tracking is not great. That could be because your surrounding is too dark and needs to be lit up better. The darker it gets in the room, due to fading daylight for example, the wobblier it indeed gets. If the cameras can see the surrounding place clearly, then I have absolutely no difference to the flawless body and position-in-space tracking of the Rift, and the G2. Light up your room. I say this because I do not have your described problem when I light up my room, your issue is then non-existent for me.

I think you misread/misunderstood what I meant. I don't have problems with body tracking, but controller tracking in cases where your hand needs to go past the camera range. A better example would perhaps be throwing a grenade or a javelin, where your hand needs to extend behind your back. It's not a huge issue, but nevertheless something one needs to keep in mind and adapt to when using the G2.

[Skybird]

To put you at ease, I didn't get the G2 based on this thread. :up:



I think you misread/misunderstood what I meant. I don't have problems with body tracking, but controller tracking in cases where your hand needs to go past the camera range. A better example would perhaps be throwing a grenade or a javelin, where your hand needs to extend behind your back. It's not a huge issue, but nevertheless something one needs to keep in mind and adapt to when using the G2.
Ah yes, I see. Yes, your description is absolutely correct, it is like you say. And it is logical, every headset having the tracking cameras in the helmet has this issue. What the camera does not see, cannot get tracked. One of the reasons why lighthouse tracking (external sensors) is more precise.



I wish I could make the two camera masts from my Rift work together with the G2 helmet and recognising the controllers. That would be phantastic. AFAIK it just does not work. It was the Rift helmet going defunct, the two camera sensors I still have, they are not broken at all.

[Skybird]

I just returned from the virtual cinema, the "Classic Cinema" it was, and there I watched much of this 3 hours film, landscapes and impressions from most beautiful Austria. The film is in 8K, so can be watched in ordinary 2D as well. What an unbelievably beautiful place. Almost supranatural. :) And then on a big movie screen. For some things, TVs and monitors simply are too small.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0V9XKbtTwo

[Skybird]

AIR PANO VR

If however sightseeing cities and nature impressions in 360° Videos is more your thing, these guys have great stuff to explore , I especially was stunned a bit by places in Montenegro:

https://www.youtube.com/c/AirPanoVR

Especially flying over the sea of lights of several American metropoles at sunset and night, is breathtaking.

There is also a long flight of a Russian combat helicopter squadron over Moscow, apparently in an exercise for an upcoming parade because they lined the flightpath up with the Red Plaza before the Kremlin. 11 I think KA-28. Ride of the Valkyries, here I come (no, its a peaceful flight demonstration, no war movie).

[mapuc]

Skybird can you recommend a good VR game which fit a newbie like me.

A game or Scenario where I walk in the nature..so I get used to these VR glasses.

You posted a video about kayaking I really liked that but is it for a newbie.

Markus

[Skybird]

Skybird can you recommend a good VR game which fit a newbie like me.

A game or Scenario where I walk in the nature..so I get used to these VR glasses.

You posted a video about kayaking I really liked that but is it for a newbie.

Markus

In the beginning, avoid games with first person perspective and then walking, also action paced flight sims. Seek steady, calm sceneries.

If you are suspicous you may suffer from motion sickness first and want to slowly adapt and train your brain, then get Virtual Desktop, i desribed it before. It costs a little money, 12 euros or so, but all workshop movie themes are free except the big Sydney cinema. It mirrors your desktop on that virtual moviescreen, form there you can then do as usual with your rig.

Start to watch videos in youtube with it. Sightseeing stuff for example. Visit other cities. Watch 2D videos in high resolution 4K and 8K and fullscreen, then the moviescreen is indeed a giant movie screen.

Then try 360° videos, that is one step higher, the screen disappears, the scene surrounds you from all sides. The videos however are a bit blurrier, even mroe so if theyx are old and were done with older 360-cameras of lesser resolution. For exmaple, sit on the uppoer deck of a tourst book and do a sihtseeing tourk the full tour, in New York. Or Berlin. Or where ever. Your trainign intensifies! :)

Then go to downloading from Steam the Google Earth and Streetview VR. You then learn to use the hand controllers more (Virtual Desktop can be used with controllers or mouse, as you like, and with real or with virtual keyboard, the latter via Microsoft onboard tools). That will impress you, and it has an onboard tutorial. Its free. Whenever you start to feel strange, you just do not do anything anymore, and the stuff you see is in frozen mode.

The above listed optiosn I am deeply thankful for being avialsble to me. I love them, and I use them all a very very lot. I have seen more of the world this way than a person could in all its life when travelling real. I feel like Alice in wonderland. Its a technical miracle that these things can be done, are possible.

The above is a smooth way to get into it, I think. What it is about is that you avoid programs with high speeds taking place at the rims of your viewing field, say a car racing along a wall, or a line of trees. Turbulent rotations along all three axes: aerial dogfights. First person shooters with plenty of rushing action and hectic. Try later, avoid at the start.

You ask for smooth walks in nature, well, I tried the Hunter games via Virtual Desktop, they did nto work well for me, even I felt strange, they are not made for VR, the head movement is the problem. Fallout 4 VR exists, but is not recommend, they say the conversion works not good, but I know Skyrim's VR clone, and that one works really good. But best really is to start with Google Earth, its Streetview option, and bicycle and walking videos in 2D high res or in 360° on Youtube.

You can also play on Virtual Desktop Cinema screens a board strategy game, may it be chess or backgammon as examples, Catan or Monopoly - something that your system can handle despite having to already deal with the VR set. The PC must run the VR, that consumes a lot of performance, and the game must live with the rest of system reserves. What works for oyu and what not this way you must check yourself. I can only recommend to try just every game that you have in 2D and that has no native VR support and where the tech demands are not that high that after running the VR set not enough performance is left for the game. Hexfield Cosims may also work well in Virtual Desktop on the movie screen. I will check that myself in an hour with WarPlan.

If you find that you can digest VR without getting nausea, then you can go to ordinary VR titles .

I only talk of games that I know in VR:


VERMILLION. Perfect for a nooewbie toi VR who is not certain about his vuklenrability to motion sickness, because it is absolutely calm, relaxed and extremely immersive at the same time. One should not feel any nausea in this. I mentioned it two or three pages before. That is THE IDEAL start for VR newbies!!!! I call it a must have, like Google Earth.
here: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...=235363&page=6 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=235363&page=6)
several posts and videos on top,in the mdidle and the blttom of that page.
I had done three paintigns so far, one was really good - anmd then I wa snot aware of the folder structure and accidentally deleted the full folder... Thats why I have not posted any paintings to boast... The software handles brilliantly, simply that. So very intuitively.
Get it, get it, it does not matter whether you think you can paint or not - just get it.

A-10 VR. No flightsim, has nothing to do with the Warthog. Superb laser-colt shooter, but you are free from excessive movements of your own position. I think it is the best game of its kind, I extremely like it, and it costs just 5 coins. Dont struggle too long with the leanrign mdoe,m its boring, the reuzglar game mdoes are different, all start slow - and end up extremely intense and dramatic. Simple concept, but splendidly executed. Get it!:yeah: One of the most underrated and overlooked games in the VR genre. I cannot understand why this is not better known. I just dont get it.

Kayak Mirage VR. Looks great, and if you paddle with the correct technique, its quite realistic. But a bit thin in content. Some people however report they have mild nausea from the kayak bopping up and down on the waves. Still, I think it is an excellent VR demonstrator, and a good first shot for a newbie. Set all graphics details to max, if your system can handle it.

Subnautica: the mostc claustrophobic experience i ever had on PC, fantastic and intense atmosphere, truly frightening, but: intially not made for VR, and not optimsied for VR. The interface makes you realise that (needs gamepad), and some people report nausea when walkign instead of swimming. The devs say they feel not competent to code VR, thats why the successor had no VR version anymore. - Do not start with this, but put it on your later-list. It is very impressive.

Skyrim VR: different to Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim'S VR incarnation works very good. But when you are new and feel uncertian on your motion sickenss tolernace, save it for later, becasue the fact that it is a first person perspective in use is something that raises the challenge.

Assetto Corsa had VR added later. The menues are in 2D, gameplay in VR works flawlessly. AC Competizione has native VR support, and works very good. Raceroom has later added VR support, it works also flawless. I can fullheartly recommend all three for VR.


Dirt Rally 2 which is very intense and impressive in VR, but nonly when you are not prone to nausea, because it is a bumpy ride;

and ETS2 that looks really fantastic in VR and adds incredible cabin immersion. The night-day-cycles, weather, and cabins, as well as the optics/physics of the mirrors, are works of art. Works very good in VR.

Superb is VTOL, because it allows you to set your own speed at which you turn into a combat stunt pilot - or not. The experience is extremely immersive. Evertyhing, really everything if optimized for VR. EVERYTHING.

Whether your system can run VR AND Flight Simulator, I have my doubts, but in principle FS and VR are a natural pairing. If it works, this combo cannot be beaten by anything! Start wuthg small, open cockpit planes of low compeklxity, and see how your system handles it. I cannot fly the big Airbus an Boeings in VR for exmaple, my system starts to melt and stutter.

Derail Valley. Do yourself a favour and get this. It works well with the G2, and it is a gem of a train game. VTOL for train lovers. ;)

Katana X. Japanese swords and flying fruits - got it? Simple and straight forward. I like it for its simple concept and good execution, and it costs just 1,60 Euros! Bought. Good training stuff to raise your nausea tolerance

Want to get a workout? Box VR. (Its no boxing simulator). Be aware however that sweaty face and VR headset do not combine well, due to lens fogging. BoxVR is an excellent sports app game, really, and you can do a workout with it for sure, but you want to use a strong ventilator, and a cloth around your face that soaks up sweat , a frottee headstrap or something and then the mask's rim on top of that. I tried several beat-the-beat games, this always was my darling, and by a huge lead. Top of the charts is Sabre, but that one I did not like. Box VR is for me. And yes, it will make you sweat and breath deep.

If sweating and lenses prove to be no problem for you: Thrill of the fight. Now, that is a boxing simulator, and a very original one. A work of love. If lens fogging is no issue for you, I recommend it. Videos do not do it justice, its better. Includes training in the virtual gym! No joke.

Later, when you found you have adapted to Vr motion and do not feel nausea, flightsims of various kinds may be somehtign for you, ionclduing dogfighting. The Warbirds VR Online series looks good, but I do not know it. The two Warplanes games (WW1, WW2 Pacific) I have just posted videos on. Its compromise between arcade and simplified sim with instant action - and no only short ammount of immersion! Nice snack for the quick break. just reduce control sensitivity in Pacific to minimum else it kills you. For what they are, they are really good. Can be flown wiht HOTAS as wlel, I think, but maybe that is overkill.

No Man's Sky works good in VR. My issue is more with the game design itself, its too boring after short time.

If the game is your taste, Elite VR. Works well in VR, but handles a bit complicated, but that is true of the 2D version as well.

Final Assault, a WW2-comic-style RTS from god-perspective. I posted a video a few weeks ago. Looks nice, handles great, and costs aorund 8 coins only. I recently posted a video about it. Dont forget to also zoom in closely sometimes to see all the many lovely details.

Pinball your thing? Pinball FX2 VR. Very, very good pinball, they look great in high-res VR like the G2, and now also support hand controllers. Its also a good starting game for VR newbies. Do not buy the newer Star War VR Pinball, however, that one works like brown stuff.

For a newbie, I would NOT recommend No Limits 2 Rollercoaster VR, the reason is self-expalnatory, I think. Also. Its, not really a game. Either you construct a rollercoaster in the editor, or you sit in one and do a ride. The experience is extrenely impressive at times, but its not really "gaming". More a sandbox for rollercoasters.

------------

I would love to recommend to you the following games, but for a G2 Reverb, I cannot, due to the previously mentioned handcontroller tracking weakness of the G2: Eleven Table Tennis is outstanding and one of the best VR titles I have so far played. The physics nail it, so does the extreme realism. Racket Fury: more action- oriented table tennis, a bit arcadish, and maybe due to that more entertaining for some, but the same problem with the G2. First Person Tennis: I had some wonderful online matches with it against other players, and believe it or not: if putting your heart into it and fully swing out your strikes, its closer to the real tennis than you can imagine, at least the techncial aspects. I loved it. That you cannot run back and forth in your living room like on a real court gets compensated for by three models to simauklte leg work and runnign, one of which I found to work extremely immersive and convinsing. Sweat and lens fogging problem applies, soutioin must be individually chosen,. I had solutions for myself. I am sad I cannot play Eleven and First Person Tennis anymore, they are xtremely well done simulators, some of the best you can find in VR. But not for the G2, sorry.

I take a break now and cry a little.

If you have it, Wreckfest. It has no native VR support, but I run it on the very biggets movie screen via Virtual Desktop, and since I do so, I relabelled it as Wreckfest 2.0 XXL. Its FANTASTIC, and one of the games that my system can run smoothly in this context. Whether yours can, you must find out. Its 2D, but on the giant movie screen, and that is a game changer already that is hard to be overestimated. In this way, this game gets enabled to show how visually beautiful and stunning it really is - you just do not see that on a normal small monitor.

Thats the titles all that I tried and still play in VR, I think. I had some stuff refunded, this I do nto oist here.

My best tip is: start with youtube and Virtual Desktop (and the moviehalls from the workshop, they are free except the biggest HIMAXX screen), and Google Earth. Check the post on the movie screens I did some days ago, page 7 of this thread.

[Skybird]

I just tried to play Armoured Brigade and the WarPlan games in Virtual Dektop on the big screen. Works perfectly, and smooth. Why would one want to do that? Because there are many games of this kind that have microscopic fonts and extremely complex and ill-designed menues and itnefaces, and sometime si find it hard to conme to a solution on screen that I actaully cna deypher the stuff. If you play it on a big movie screen 10m high and 30m wide, recognising details i no problem. :O: Think of it as playing with a giant magnifier.

And how could I forget in the above list of games this: AirCar. I mentioned it repeatedly (well, all what I just repeated). Its free at Steam. It may be problematic at first for peopel pronbe to Vr nausea, so be careufl, but the vosual experience is so avbsilktuely imopressive that nobody can afford to not at least try it. Its not a game, more a tech demo, and a relaxed, laid-back experience. Just Blade-Runnering :) in an aircar through the streets of a nightly futuristic city. Every VR user should have tried this at least once. Its a visual feast.

Then I remembered that I have tested, years ago, Space Engine, sort of a planetarium software for the entire universe. Back then I did not get it running well in VR, but that may have changed, and the itnerface bakc then needed to work yourself into it. I mention it so that you know stuff like that also exists. Despite my problems, it gets very good customer feedback. Maybe I just dont know how to handle it well.


Edit:

I remembered another title that seems to have matured well in silence: Catan VR. Its the board game, playable against AI or MP, in a VR environment. I had just reinstalled it and played some moves, and I must say, its very good, visually implementation and handling are really good indeed. You sit at the table inside a hut or a japanese apaprtment, with your opponents, it handles and feels well, and it might be one of the best options for a VR newcomer who is not sure about nausea to familiarize himself with it. The interface for playing the game and dealing with its options, is ergonomically well-designed. And Settlers of Catan, well, either you like it for what it is, or not. I think its a very good board game. Not specifically designedf for WMR sand the G2, I found the handling flaweless. It works. However, it seems the expansions still have not be brought into this computer-version of Catan (the other 2D catan games have them). Multiplayer apparently can be played across platforms!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZLEf3TQNQg

[Dowly]

Guess I should give some input on that motion sickness side of things now that I've used the G2 for a week or so.

I got it on the 12th, and spent the first two-three days just to get used to the software/app side of things (using VR desktop etc.) The first day I felt a bit sick to my stomach (I don't suffer from motion sickness usually), but that passed by day 2. Now, the real kicker (and a bit of insight in how human brain works) came when I tried my first game (Blade & Sorcery)!

Seeing your entire arms instead of just hands/controllers made my brain a bit confused for a couple of days. For example, if I was leaning at a table with my hands holding my phone in front of me and my eyes concentrated on the phone, I'd get this strange "numbness"/"unattached" feeling in my arms. I'm guessing my brain was trying to figure out if it was VR or RL, and I had to take a quick glance at my arms and wiggle them abit to sort it out.

Very strange feeling, I see my arm, unfocused, but it feels as if it's not mine. But it is starting to be better now.

Anyways, the most interesting part to me at least, is how easily that CPU we have inside our heads can be fooled. Gives a bit of a perspective to all those sci-fi shows and the brainwashing stuff in them where they keep someone in a virtual world without them knowing when they are really awake and when in a virtual world.

Not something I was expecting, but a wholly welcome perspective. :yep:

[Catfish]

^ wait until we wake up from this simulation we call world, in reality :03:

I would like to play the recent version Rise of Flight in 3d.. but i guess i would fall out of the plane (read: from my chair) in the first few minutes :hmmm:

[mapuc]

^ wait until we wake up from this simulation we call world, in reality :03:

I would like to play the recent version Rise of Flight in 3d.. but i guess i would fall out of the plane (read: from my chair) in the first few minutes :hmmm:

I think it was in this thread and it was some of you who posted a link to some special chair made for
VR.

Edit
I found something I remember looked somewhat like the chair I mentioned
https://www.yawvr.com/
End edit


Markus

[Skybird]

When my father tried VR first time, he dropped over to one side, I had to catch him. But then, he was mid-70 then.

I was not that prone to VR motion sickness/nausea from beginning on, just in some situations. But these situations became more and more irrelevant, too. Today I do not get nausea at all, no matter what I play, racing or flying, and even if carrying the VR helmet for two hours.

Its like I said earlier: the brain may be irritated at first, due to different inputs form the inner ear (no movement) and the eyes (movement for sure). But it trains, it adapts, it "hardens" itself".

You just must no exaggerate it. When you start feeling uncomfortable - STOP. Do not force yourself, do not push it - it will only get worse. Else you may pay with very very severe nausea and ill-like-a-dog feeling for several hours, and even with some hours delay. This happened to me once when using a fairground attraction of truly diabolic nature, I described it back then, a hellish machine. I felt like needing to vomit and was so dizzy I could not stanbd, sit, wlak, crawl or lay still, and could not even lie flat on the ground without rolling over. It was very serious. I felt like that just once before, that was when as a teen I tried the only time in my life to drunk lots of alcohol, and over the next mornign and day paid a terrible price for that half a bottle of whiskey. Being young means being stupid.

Both lessons learned. Never got drunk again in my life. Never pushed VR beyond what felt comfortable again.

Start easy. When uncomfortable - stop. But try again some time later, dont be discouraged. Rise interval length slowly form time to time. The brain can be trained. The brain will adapt. Promised. The old ones may need more time than the younger, however. People used to monitor work may find it easier than people who never had something to do with computer games.

----------

On a sidenote, I am fuming. I today allowed my once-a-year Windows update by Microsoft. I usually block these monthly updates since I got the new machine in fall 2017. Today I allowed it, the yearly clean-up, if you want. Since then and the installation of 22H2 for W10, all games involving SteamVR crash after half a minute, due to steamVR itself crashing, when using VR. Not involved are programs that use VR without needing to run inside SteamVR.

I have some serious problems here currently. Thank you Microsoft. Reminds of why I usually block you and keep you blocked. I wish I would not have done the updating today.

I read that people who upgraded from W10 to W11 via Windows Update are even more heavily affected by Mixed Reality Devices crashing under SteamVR then. More people getting hit by this, I mean.

Never touch and never "update" a stable system. Shame on me. I know that with Microsoft the risk is high that updates often end up being downgrades, I posted on that often enough myself.

S##t.

[Catfish]

Once a year update? They do it each "patch-tuesday".
How do you avoid updating? MS (sic! Multiple sclerosis) does not allow you to block updates.
Imho the only possibilities are
a) you have a server-client network that allows a Wsus server to postpone or block updates for the clients, usually only works when you have a registered company and a permanent IP address
b) you have the enterprise edition (above professional and much more expensive) that allows you to completely block certain or all updates
c) you have the professional edition and de-install updates after installing, which is time-consuming, quite idiotic and hard to do; and even after this remnants of some update may still spoil some programs. And MS may still try to install this again later.
:hmmm:

[Skybird]

1. You set your internet connection to "metered".
+

2. You use the Windows Update Blocker app. I have an old version, 1.5 It easily switches on and off WUS.

A few people back then reported that the announcement of W11 screen kind of broke it for them, they got upodated desopite these steps. So far, not for me.

Also, some people reported that the W11 announcement screen was followed by installing W11against their will, without their consent.

Updates for Windows 10 onboard security/AV guard still get through if you use it and have no separate AV installed (I have). At least so I read, but as I said: I use a separate software, Eset, and Malwarebyte.

Years ago, one or two more steps were needed to block windows updates, but with one major Windows update some details changed in the process and these steps were no longer needed/available.

I do not wish to go to W11, and my big fear was and is that it gets pushed against my will on my system.

That screen should never be touched, I once read at Woody's.

I also recall that since W11 came out, W10 only gets a limited ammount of updates only, certain categoiry of updates, while the regrets must be manually isnatlled form a different, manually accesses patch pool. The update today also wa slimited, only the 22H2 update and three NET-updates. Last time, last January, the list was a dozen entries long.

Sorry for being a bit vague, I just do not recall all these details I knew back then anymore, Woody's also does not freely publish and on W10 anymore, its mostly payware now and focusses on W11, and it is more relevant for business customers and IT admins. Security-sensitive stuff like banking, shopping, money-related stuff emails I all do via a second, separate system and then from linux, so I can afford to leave my W10 gaming rig a bit less "updated", security-wise.

You can also just delay updates by 5 or 6 weeks.

I plan to stay with W10 as long as this rig is running, will not move to W11 voluntarily before buying a new one in some years.


Edit. You made me nervcous a bit, Kai, and so i quickly checked the udpoate history. Indeed, over the whoe, past years, no windows updates, just two NET-updates that probabaly correspond to driver updates for some new game stuff. You know, when you install a game, sometimes it installs some of these, too, automatically, if you prevent it, you get issues sometimes.

[Skybird]

The best of both worlds?

How to combine the high resolution of the G2 Reverb with the precise controller tracking of the Valve Index.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_SepHooREo

-----------------

Update on my Windows Update issues, it ended with needing to complektely deinstall and reinstall all VR-related and SteamVR twice. After some logner time I got iot workign agfain,m but not without losses, for exmaple now the Pinball does not work anymore, will see SteamVR shutting down after 30 seconds or so. No system high load, high temperature, running out of RAM or anything.

If only I would not have done that stupid WU. I know that that is an invitation for mess and desaster, to let Microsoft mess around with my system. :arrgh!:

That was the last WU I did on this system for the rest of its lifetime, if need does not force me to do another one. I am so tired of this waltz. Windows and Microsoft live only by Window's widely established software and hardware compatability, if that would not be so, most people would already have thrown it into the bin. I had a stable VR platform, and now no more. Thank you, MS.

Will now test more titles, namely the racing sims.

[Ostfriese]

I tried the G2 a couple of days ago. Unfortunately it shares the same problem as any other VR device: they can neither compensate for my bad eyesight (I'm severely myopic/nearsighted) nor do they work well with glasses/contacts (in the strength I require them). No matter what I do, I always get a blurred image.

[Skybird]

That is bad luck. I had 5-6 dptr. when i had the Oculus Rift and I used it with lenses additionally bought that had to be put into the headset, on top of its inbuild lenses. The G2 now I use with my normal glasses worn. The only disadvantage is that sometimes I must reset these glasses because they moved a bit and got so close that my eye lashes touch the glass, and that feels not nice.



--------------


Windows Update and SteamVR troubles:

Both Warplanes games work. Google Earth and Virtual Desktop works. Assetto corsa works. Tests continue.

[Catfish]

^^^@Skybird thank you for the update-blocking tips, only saw it today.
Still there are a lot of issues, and i then read your later post :03:
The history of Windows is - among a few positive things of course - less and less control you have over your PC and paying for additional programs that were included before. I still wait for the time MS will demand money for using robocopy or any other shell command ;)

[Ostfriese]

That is bad luck. I had 5-6 dptr. when i had the Oculus Rift and I used it with lenses additionally bought that had to be put into the headset, on top of its inbuild lenses. The G2 now I use with my normal glasses worn. The only disadvantage is that sometimes I must reset these glasses because they moved a bit and got so close that my eye lashes touch the glass, and that feels not nice.



I'm beyond -9 dptr. with additional "features" as well, anything more than 8cm away from my face appears blurred (Fortunately enough everything can be corrected with glasses).
The only way I could use VR would be specially made glasses (similar to reading glasses) or specially manufactured lenses to put inside the VR system, but they'd be very difficult to aquire and extremely expensive (on the far side of €2,000 - simply not worth it).

[Skybird]

More bad surprises.

Positives:

AC Competizione works, though launching it now is not without hickups.
Raceroom works.
ETS2 works.
Virtual Desktop works, but behaves differently and somewhat nervous on launch and leaving.
Vermillion works.
Kayak Mirage works.

SteamVR is far more intrusive now, no matter playing with its options.

Negvatives:

Wreckfest in Virtual Desktop mode on the moviescreen: a total disaster, it runs with less than 1fps per seocnd and is unplayable that way. VERY BIG loss. Totally unplayayable. Now I udnerstand why so many peope, said it does not work for them when I told them they should try this: I did not update Windows, they probably have.

Pinball FX VR 2 freezes after 20-30 second at the table. VERY BIG loss.

Air Car freezes after 20-30 seconds. Well, a demo only. But it worked before WU. EVERYTHING worked before WU.

The latter two fail due to "Unreal Engine is existing due to D3D devic ebeing lost, error 0x887a0007". I tried to update DiX, found it all is on verison 12, a seaparte uodate is not posso9ble, I tried a reinstallation, and it broke of saiyng I have the laets version. I ionstalled a new gaphics driver, 527.02. I tried two registry hacks, which i had to reverse, they did not solve the problem but once the freeeze happend, the freeze stayed forever, never returned to desktop after 10 seconds or so.

And now the big thing that really makes me fume:
Flight Simulator, Microsoft's own thing, freezes after a short time. I'm grounded.

If only, if only. If only I would not had run that dman Windows update due to vague, unfounded "security concerns". It worked all flawless and stable and perfect since one year, and alreadey in the four years before that.

I'm out of advice. It worked, then came Microsoft with its sh!+, and now quite some stuff is broken. Thank you, Microsoft. Lousiness as a motto. I red a lot abpiut others getting hit, and comapnies and corporations, this time the brown stuff hit me.

Heck, Windows Mixed Reality is also Microsoft's own baby!

Needless to say, I have the headset, SteamVR all at the same options like before.

[Skybird]

^^^@Skybird thank you for the update-blocking tips, only saw it today.
Still there are a lot of issues, and i then read your later post :03:
The history of Windows is - among a few positive things of course - less and less control you have over your PC and paying for additional programs that were included before. I still wait for the time MS will demand money for using robocopy or any other shell command ;)
Windows 7 was good, even the Linux Buddha admitted he liked it. After that, Microsoft decided to dive deep into the feces, and deeper and deeper into it it dives, until today. Its a dangerous company and a crappy product portfolio at the same time.

[Skybird]

I'm beyond -9 dptr. with additional "features" as well, anything more than 8cm away from my face appears blurred (Fortunately enough everything can be corrected with glasses).
The only way I could use VR would be specially made glasses (similar to reading glasses) or specially manufactured lenses to put inside the VR system, but they'd be very difficult to aquire and extremely expensive (on the far side of €2,000 - simply not worth it).
Sorry to hear that. My eyes since 1 or 2 years are slowly reversing, and I have started to wear glasses again I wore years ago, my diopters slowly go down, not up anymore. But age-related presbyopia gets worse, slowly. Had none of that until I turned 51 or 52.
I hate getting old. Only losses, no compensations.

[Skybird]

Super.

Derail Valley, a darling title of mine - FAIL.

:arrgh!:

I HATE Microsoft. I have a rage.


I have no idea what to do now. And different to XP and W7 days, I am lost now. I do not know as much about W10 anymore as I knew about XP and W7, there I always was able to solve any issues, after a day of wild cursing and hours of experimenting. Here now, I feel lost, helpless.

[Skybird]

From bad to worse.


Dirt Rally 2 - FAIL. Freezes.


GPU and system are not overloaded, temps are moderate, just a fraction of RAM gets used.


:/\\!!

[Catfish]

If those are older games and not too hardware-demanding you can probably use a virtual machine, i think at least one VM is still free to use with Win 10 pro. You can install Win 7 on it and it is usually trouble free.

I take ityou already tried start as administarator and in different compatibility modes ?

[Dowly]

I assume you are using the public beta version of WMR for SteamVR instead of the lkg_release?

[Skybird]

I assume you are using the public beta version of WMR for SteamVR instead of the lkg_release?
I never heard of that difference. I plugged the set in in Decembre 2021, it downloaded stuff, as far as I recall, and there I was.

This is important not to forget, I think. All the software I mentioned to have probelms now - has run smooth and fluent since 13 months and without needing workarounds. Back then i did the last Windows Update, to not get force-upgraded by the promotional software for the Widnows 11 rollout like it ha shappened to some people out there, and not just a few ones. That was also the last time I updated gpu drivers. Since then, NOTHING has changed on the hardware side here, and has not until to this very day. The GPU driver has been updated two days ago, however, in an effort to repair what the 22H2 update then apparently has broken.


If those are older games and not too hardware-demanding you can probably use a virtual machine, i think at least one VM is still free to use with Win 10 pro. You can install Win 7 on it and it is usually trouble free.

I take ityou already tried start as administarator and in different compatibility modes ?

VR with a high-res headset like the G2 you do not want to run on a system that has additional performance stress added to it, because the VRAM already gets fried anyway no matter how much you have, and the GPU temp is in the orange and the CPU temps are at the upper end of the range the system sees when running demanding games.

That are no old, "classical" games form WindowXP days. Some of them even still are in Early Access. Also, some of them need to be launched via Steam App to enable their VR option.

And they all ran problem-free for 13 months and then 4 years before. You may have noticed my enthusiasm in this thread over the years. :) They ran for four years before the G2 arrived, with the Oculus Rift.

Then came Microsoft, and in parts it all is ruined.

--------------------------------

I have meanwhile tried to start with different VR platform backgrounds ("environments" for WMR), since these are extremely VRAM consuming and block signficant parts of it just for being stored there uselessly even when playing, That way, by using an almost empty white screen (the arsenal room from matrix) instead of the beautiful but RAM eating beautiful houses and places of WMR, I freed severla GB (!!) of VRAM on my graphics card which holds 11GB in total. VRAM usage in running game at the ver ystrat of playing dropped from 8-8.5 GB to ~3-3.5 GB, and then slowly mounting upwards when playing ! Who codes this kind of mindless sh!+...? Killing hardware for useless crap...? It looks beautiful, yes, but it kills performance!! In this case almost half of my gpu board's VRAM - for nothing relevant!

Same with SteamVR's "Home" environment, i switched it off (which makes launching titles sometimes a hassle now, since WMR hardware is not reliably recognized under SteamVR and only so if titles are launched from Home, i thus have switched it on again meanwhile - else I have a Google Streetview for exmaple where the controllers are functionless, do not get properly recognised, which makes Earth unusable). I also reduced visual options for the headset, to minimums, pixels are at 50% (minimum) of the default value and pixel resolution I tried to push down from 1.7 to 1.5, then 1.4, then 1.2 - no difference, problems persist.

I suspect the "Update" for Windows added some demanding stuff to Windows which makes it running while consuming more ressources for something, task manager does not identify it for me, however. Its as if my rig has been technically downgraded.



Or some hidden option has been set to a different setting.


The titles in question do launch, they run some time into normal operation, usually around 20-40 seconds or so - and then the image freezes, I move the head, but the perspective does not change anymore, some seconds later later it turns dark and I am back to 2D desktop on the monitor, and SteamVR is locked, must be manually ended, WMR must be ended (simpyl retarting SteamVR means mess, but that was already the case before all this) and restarted, too. There is still 20% free memory on the gpu, temp is ornage,m but not red, idnciating aorund 90-02°, which for the gpu is normal under full stress. CPU load is low, CPU temp is normal game temp, RAM suage is just a tiny fraction of those 32GB I have.

----------

I now google on Dowly's lkg-WMR thing. Have no clue what it is about.

On a sidenote, and for Dowly, I bought a little tool, 3.50 Euros, at steam, name is FpsVR. Chech it out, it gives you deep system insight while running software and being inside the VR world, that way you can monitor for example RAM and VRAM usage, temps of cpu and gpu, and some more. At the same time it is completely unobstreusive, becasue the little display is "gluied" to the bottom of your left virtual hand, you miust move it quite unnaturally to see it and thus it does not interfere with gameplay. Feedback is utmost positive and many call it an essential must-have.

I also followed this video in one attempt to solve this, but it did not help, but it illustrates some of the background problems with RAM usgae by WMR, or should I say: RAM wasting. The SkySpoaces he emnitons is not accessible anymore, apparently, I thus dropped the Matrix background, a white void for the most, manually, it replaces what he says on SkySpace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjHbjaiEJc0&t=157s

And I tried this video, it also did not help, and the reg hacks at the end I even had to undo again becasue else the headset, after the latest freezing event, would have blocked the system endlessly until I manually rebooted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b62QYjR8wgg

[Dowly]

I now google on Dowly's lkg-WMR thing. Have no clue what it is about.Go to the WMR for SteamVR settings on Steam, under Betas choose public beta. LKG stands for "Last Known Good" release, but using the public beta version is recommended.

[Skybird]

I just have found it, thanks, I try both options anyway, if need be. Have just downloaded LKG, if no effect I will try the Beta.

[Skybird]

Yopu could have set me on something, Dowly, thank you. Activating the LKG branch of SteamVR had somehtign gettig downlaode,d so a chnage took palce I assume. First two tests were with Pinball FX 2 VR and Air Car, and both applicaitosn ran for 10 minutes and without any stuttering or freezes then. That is the change to the status last night.



Further tests are needed, but I have no time currently. Will update this thread.



Thanks, Dowly, hopefully this tip eases if not heals the issues. I had deionstaleld and re-downloaded SteamVR - but not the Betas and the LKG, but the normal strain. I did not know of these coexisting strains for SteamVR.

[Skybird]

Well, it seems both the Beta and the LKG branch of the WMR_for_SteamVR works good for me - so far all titles that fialed yesterday work with any of these two, only Wreckfest suffers so dearly form performance loss that playing it inside Virtual Desktop still is impossible. Not all titles have been tested, just those form yesterday, and I acuztally could have pushed the VR settings back to their former higher settings to improve the resolution quality again.



I owe you an marinated caribou, Dowly. :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Skybird]

For watching best in VR. Elegant, incredible, big. And everywhere this exuberant abundance, a teeming with life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9YRl7Yu-p8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKumVFvGHFA



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9IGe7s6Ook

[mapuc]

Some question on ETS2 and ATS and steering wheel.

Is these two simulation games VR compatible and can you use steering wheel and pedal instead of these hand held controller ?

If Yes to the games-Can I use the one I have or shall I buy new VR compatible ETS2 and ATS ?

Markus

[Skybird]

ETS2 is formally in Beta VR, but since years works PERFECTLY in VR (its a blast), you only need to download a Betastrain of the executable in steam options, I think. Driving world as well as homestation and menus - all is in VR.



Yes, it is also wheel and pedals compatible, even gearboxes are suppoprted, but modern trucks all use pretty much automatic gears now.



I bet money that both is true for ATS as well.



Very immersive and relaxing ETS in VR is.

[mapuc]

If his review on the new V2 version of HP Reverb G2 V2 is correct, then I'm going to buy this version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNOUOzG5XfQ&ab_channel=MRTV-MIXEDREALITYTV

Markus

[Skybird]

Think of it also from this perspective: there is no real alternative currently, maybe. The alternatives one might think of either bind you to Facebook, means: a Meta account at least, or, in case of the Vive, sell you now outdated hardware for a price that always was overpriced. The lighthouse tracking of Vive is said to be the best, yes, but the display is inferior, it has lower resolution. If you read gauges in a cockpit or small print under the instruments or on buttons, this is what makes the difference. In the G2 you can read it. In the Vive most likely not.



Order via internet, Markus, I think EU law means you can give any item back within 2 weeks or so - no matter what. If your rig shows to be too weak, you can give it back then (the set, not the rig :D ). If buying in a shop, you depend on the seller showing goodwill if you want your money back. Most shops will comply, but some will not but and insist on giving you a coupon. Internet traders have no legal choice, they MUST give you back the money if you want it so.

[mapuc]

My CPU is AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core processor
Graphic card is NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB VRAM
RAM 8142

I hope my Computer can run this VR-headset

Markus

[Skybird]

We have been there before.


Is troubles show up, ask. You may need to reduce pixel density in the headset. If need be, I explain to you what to do. It sno big deal. The ver yhigh resoltuion of th eheadste can be reduced a bit so to ease stress on the hardware and keep frames up. Surprisingly, the G2 does some tricks to let even frames of 60, even 45 appear as fluent and smooth. Its fascinating. Usually, 90 was declared a norm . It is not so. I must run many applications in significantly less than 90 frames in the headset - and do not even notice the difference when it runs with just 60 or so. In the Rift I always had 90.



So dont loose hope if it does not all work perfectly out of the box. Lets check things out before giving up too prematurely. Like anything computer, things can be a bitch at times. But nevertheless so far I always got things cured and working again, sometimes with help by others like that helpful note by Dowly some days ago, sometimes with a lot of time, googling done, and many curses. But here I am - with working hardware.

[mapuc]

We have been there before.


Is troubles show up, ask. You may need to reduce pixel density in the headset. If need be, I explain to you what to do. It sno big deal. The ver yhigh resoltuion of th eheadste can be reduced a bit so to ease stress on the hardware and keep frames up. Surprisingly, the G2 does some tricks to let even frames of 60, even 45 appear as fluent and smooth. Its fascinating. Usually, 90 was declared a norm . It is not so. I must run many applications in significantly less than 90 frames in the headset - and do not even notice the difference when it runs with just 60 or so. In the Rift I always had 90.



So dont loose hope if it does not all work perfectly out of the box. Lets check things out before giving up too prematurely. Like anything computer, things can be a bitch at times. But nevertheless so far I always got things cured and working again, sometimes with help by others like that helpful note by Dowly some days ago, sometimes with a lot of time, googling done, and many curses. But here I am - with working hardware.

Yes we have been there before except one thing-Then I didn't knew what CPU and what exact Graphic card I had.

I'm going to buy this HP Reverb G2 V2. in a couple of weeks and I will do two things. Adjust the system on this VR, so I can use it fully and get use to it-Meaning not playing several hours the first couple of days.

Markus

[Skybird]

The market situation of VR in Germany: no overwhelmingly steep growth, but steady, constant growth since years.

https://www-pwc-de.translate.goog/de/technologie-medien-und-telekommunikation/studie-deutscher-virtual-reality-markt-waechst-ueber-die-nische-hinaus.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

The data I find online on VR in general seems to give comparable outlooks. Sources are not the manufacturers themselves who hide their sales number in general, but traders and market analysts.

A battle is expecte din a few yeares, say at the end of this decade, wehn it will be decided whether or not Meta will be successful with its so far disappoint attenmpt to lock in new customers into its metaverse and therefore developers focussing exlcusively on working for the Meta VR sets. I hope this will not be the march-thorgh b that Zuckerberg hopoes for, because then it would kill the competition.

Technicallycally, optically, the hardware has now reached good standards, what now must follow is to put the processing power from PC into the headset like with some of the Oculus models - but with more such power to allow the same apps working in that model like apps needing a PC's power. Prices must not climb further, despite inflation, because people will not afford these costs anymore (VR is not a much requested item category like superexpensive GFX boards). In fact with some product lines we see dropping price levels, apparently, but at the cost of reduced processing power again. To get these things balanced out well I think is much more decisive for the fate of VR than ever new resolution records of the optical system. If they fail in this over the next lets say 7-8 years or so it is possible that VR nevertheless will turn into a dud and fail late.

WHICH WOULD BE A SHAME.

As the article says: An old rule in the IT industry says that the chances of success of new technologies tend to be overestimated in the short term, but often tend to be underestimated in the medium term. "It could be the same with virtual reality," says Werner Ballhaus, head of technology, media and telecommunications at PwC in Germany. "When the topic came up two or three years ago, there was initially a lot of hype - but this was soon followed by disillusionment, because the technology did not establish itself as quickly as some protagonists had hoped." In the meantime, says Ballhaus, the signs have changed vice versa: “The initial euphoria is over. At the same time, there are increasing signs right now that virtual reality could actually grow into a technology for the mass market.”

[Catfish]

I find it utterly insane to pay 4000 Euros or more for a PC that will be obsolete in a few years :o

[Skybird]

I thought so a year ago and more, when a new GFX board costed 3000+ Euros. But then I find the whole concept of "crypto-mining" absurd. One coul,d as well write numbers on paper and call that "buying power". Absurd, signs for a crazy world that has gone completely nuts. It makes as much sense to me as homeopathy or something like that. And crypto-mining is where the shortages and costs for GTX boards came from.

A gaming-optimised PC however costs more than an office machine, that was always so.

If its not worth it for you, then dont do it.

Just keepo in mind that if you do not need optimsied high end VR perofmance but just want to do more less demandign stuf fin VR, then you do not need the latest of the latest hardware. Google Earth V R, beyond its spectacular looks, for example needs just a fraction of my ressources compared to VR used in ACC.

And then there are those VR headsets that do not need a PC -based high-end-hardware pool at all. :03: They have their processing power inside the headset. Their usability still just is not as sophisticated, some demanding apps might not get converted for these.


Altenative: a PS5 plus a VR set 2.0, it is said to be extremely good, maybe the bets ion the consume rmarket currently. You are locked in into the PS universe, however, thats what for me would speak against it.


I have watched severla movies on the virtual superbig movie screen now. That alone is already worth it for me. And Google Earth VR. And the many 360° youtube videos done by tourists and inhabitants in foreign cities and places. It can be overwhelming.

[Skybird]

My latest VR prey: Battlezone Gold. :Kaleun_Applaud:
Many of us older guys recall it from the arcades of the late 80s. We recall the green-line vector graphics, the TRON-feeling, and the generla mood of that era and the sort of comptuer games that were common back then.

I wanted to get this since I got VR in late 2017, and always something got in the way. Concerns, worries about the controls, the higher costs back then. Other titles I choosed before this, waiting for a sale, and forgetting about it again.

Well, I now got it nevertheless. And I could spoank myself for not havign done so earlierl, forn tjsi game is perfectly adapted to VR, it is a flawless presentation, and very immersive world- and cockpit feel. The visuals have been upograded, but one stuzcki to the feel and looks of the old TRON movie, and I must say never have I felt so close to being on the TRON grid for real! The grapohcis obviosuly have been tremedously upgraded, and I like how the kepot the retro feel of TRON and combined it with a more modern neon-glow in colours and structure design.

The control, is via gamepad, and I struggled a bit at first since the gun'S elecation is controlled via the small right thumb stick, and that make sit tricky, it reacts quite fast, making precise movement tricky. The general tank movement is speed and direction with he left stick and turret/gun control with the right one,. The buttons are used to toggle between wepaons, lock on targets and some special functions. It can be played by 1,2,3 and 4 players.

Driving feels very smooth and futuroistic, you strn agely get a feelign for the masiosve wieght, still you think you skate on ise. The tank's movement I like, but I could imagine that people vulnerable to VR sickness may sooner or later get into troubles here - you move at one direction while looking at a completely different direction - in VR that is not for everybody.

Its a lot about dodging enemy shots and bullets, while own shots with the cannon are trickier than one might think, because the roudn does not travel linear to the centtre of the crosshair, but tzravels in a real ballistic arch, like a snowball in a snowball battle, and you must elevate the turret manually and by estimation. That is first frustrating, later a challenge, then becomes quite fun. Altenrtaivels, isntead of chnagig elevation you may choose to get the aim right by increaiosng or reducing diatanc eot the target. It all reminds me oretty much of "Völkerball", I think thats called Dodgeball in English? You also have MGs, and missiles.


The campaign map are hexfield, eahc poresenting oen arena, and this world gets randomly generated every time to you start a new campaign. You can encode a setting by keepign note of its "seed number". In each arena youi kight have objectives to achieve, destroying shild generatrs of the final level, gianing informaiton, hakcing systems, and so forth. The close oyu get to the heart arena on eahc map, a volcano setting, the stiffier esistenc ebecome suntil you are up against armies of killer robots on the gorund and in the air, even swarm-like drones.

The old classic game in green line-vector graphics and simplified controls is included as a gimmick, too. Retro-feeling pure!

Very old-fashioned, very old-school, very arcade, and this modernised with a good sense for stylishness and playability, while preserving the feelign of the original and adding TRON to it, polus adding the best of VR to it, melting it all into a flawless, immerisve presentation. Even the soundtrack is right on traget, matches the feeling of the game perfectly. Good! :yeah:

There are times in a man's life when he just want to hit it all the time. However, get ready to also die a lot. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-RDfooaU_Q


P.S. Could be played in 2D, too, needs some earlier beta activated in Steam, if I understood it correctly (I have not tried it).

[Skybird]

The concept is m,ade for VR and good in idea, but needs more polishing in executing it. Also , only for Quest.

If you cant wait for the aciton shown, jump to 00:02:00 ff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI9QL0cD3fc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXVpQBv-yOY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGD4_Krxn80

[Skybird]

Long live VR ! :yeah: I have just cycled 80 minutes on bike in New York, in a 360° video (THIS ONE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwzg7mIKuA)). Manhattan, Park Avenue, Time Square, all the places, all the sights. Wahnsinn!

VR rules!

And here is a channel with plenty and plenty of 360° workout bike tours from spain, meant for use on your home trainer, if you use such a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcETcsPVi_kHDmjMSfvq-eYeQ0OKOrrSc



There are also many such films in simple 2D all across Youtube, from all regions of the world. This one describes one tour from Austria, utmost beautiful, in 2D, VR is good but not necessary to have:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOpm6E1lnpc



Same stuff is availa ble for trail runenrs, at runner's speeds.



Purposes like these is where technology really enables little miracles and turns into a blessing. Visiting foreign places and cities in 360° via VR is unbelievable to be capable to do. Some say "its not real", "its no as good as the real experience". Well, dont do it, if you think so. But your lifetime and your income probably is not sufficient to see what you can see via VR. Thats an awsome lot you are doomed to miss!

[Skybird]

Tiem and again soembody tries to tell the world "Its dead", but instead it constantly grows. Not sensationally quick, but constantly and steadily.



https://premortem.games/2022/12/02/gaming-continues-to-drive-vr-growth-revenues-will-double-in-2024/

[Skybird]

This is a really well-done, nice VR documentation on a possible scenario for going to the moon, building a station, and from there jump to Mars. The way VR is used to illustrate the scenes, really impressed me. The scenes on Mars really mad eme feel small and awestruck.

You can watch it in 2D and use the osue to pan around, its okay, its good - but really, it does not get close to the impressiveness in 3D.

I criticise German state TV a lot (this was made by ZDF), but with this they did something nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zz3b1wPRXQ


And then this. This seats you in the planetarium at the Insulaner in Berlin (which I know from the time before it was renovated), and then it plays a regular 45 minute program from there, inside the planetarium, on the planets in the solar system.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6wkDHXY1po




And some days ago I was wondeirng why it had not come to my mind earlier: to run the available 360° videos from inside fighter cockpits in VR. I knew this films from some years ago, but just short time ago it came to my mind as a good idea to try them with the VR headset. Wowh! Meet the Blue Angels:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6SsB3JYqQg



The Patrouille Suisse:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT0OvsjK6Q

[Skybird]

This is crazy! And needs a very strong rig.

No longer just a Beta, Vermillion now allows you to enter the virtual gameworld of a game, set up your canvas, and then paint the scene of the game from within the game using Vermillion, like a real painter painting the landscape in which he stands.

The following is a scene from the game Alyx, its neither special nor especially beautiful, but illustrates the idea. I wonder if they add multiplayer to this option also (normal paitntign alreadsy allows it). Imagine this, you and two real world friends stand on the mountains of Skyrim and your game companion also is around, and you all look down on Whiterun and you all three set up your canvas and see your two buddies doing their painting while you do your own - it starts to get crazy, sort of, eh?! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udc1i97KPLY

[Skybird]

Very bad news. HP is leaving the VR production market, and considering the G2 Reverb's best-on-the-market compromise between affordable price and superb image quality, the middle ground of the market's offerings is being left empty.

The video author says it has somethign to do with the dependency on Microsoft and Valve, since this headset bases on Mixed Reality and SteamVR. Oculus is better set up in this regard, having its own VR standard oculusVR. And Microsoft struggles to get its acts together in WMR affairs, while Valve wants to sell its - much more expensive and by now nevertheless technically outdated - set.

If you considered this one model, now is the time to act.

Damn, I hoped for a third version in one or two years. With external trackers, however, so that I could play Eleven Table Tennis and First Person Tennis again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXwSs0rHlo

[Rockstar]

Just today I was reading about HP leaving the VR business. I'm on DCS lately and was looking into getting a headset geared specifically towards that. Been kicking around the idea of getting a Quest Pro but will probably wait and see what the reviews are for the new Quest 3 coming out later this year.

[Skybird]

The resolution of the G2 is the prime argument in its favour combined with its - for VR standards - low price. As I said before, for anything cockpit related where small details (gauges) must be readable and moving around in the room is not needed since you are stationary, the G2 is a top contender: flight sims, racing sims, driving sims. And I see your US Amazon has it right now for 435 dollars.


... :)



Stuff that needs precise handtracking in fast movement and unlimited tracking area (tennis rackets , table tennis, billiard sticks etc) works not so good or not at all on the G2.



I sometimes have red the G2 has had problems with AMD chip-based mainboards. I dont know the details, however, or how relevant this is.


--------------


I know somebody :salute: who got himself a Quest 2 recently and sometimes reads in here. :) Dont be discouraged when the official data says it does not support Google Earth and Streetview. Via hardwire link and using Steam's GE version many people seem to be able to operate this on their Quest 2 normally, some say they even did not need the wire. Google for "Quest 2 Google Streetview" and scan the results , mostly forum replies at reddit. It seems it can be done. I dont know the Quest 2 myself, so i cannot help with experience, sorry.


You want Google Earth VR. You need Google Earth VR. A life without Google Earth VR is possible, but pointless. :D

[Rockstar]

Don’t think I’ll be purchasing a PICO VR headset


TikTok, Hospitals And Tutoring Apps: The Many Tentacles Of Chinese Tech Giant ByteDance

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2022/08/24/tiktok-parent-bytedance-companies/?sh=434330446d23

Alexandra S. Levine
Forbes Staff
I'm a senior writer covering social media and online culture.
Emily Baker-White
Forbes Staff
Aug 24, 2022,06:30am EDT

The TikTok parent company owns a diverse set of companies across sectors including news, video gaming, and education, in addition to its short-form video apps.

Earlier this month, ByteDance acquired Amcare Healthcare, one of China’s biggest private hospital chains, for a reported $1.5 billion. That might sound strange, given that the Beijing-based company has become a household name as the parent of TikTok, the fastest-growing social media platform in the world. But ByteDance’s foray into hospitals is just the latest example of how the tech giant’s ambitions extend far beyond the wildly popular video app.

ByteDance lists just seven products, including TikTok and its Chinese counterpart, Douyin, on its website. But ByteDance is pushing into at least half a dozen other industries at a shocking scale, snapping up everything from video game startups to medical websites and payment processors, even dabbling at one point in education apps and real estate listing businesses. Data analytics firm Sensor Tower told Forbes it has identified 70 different active apps from ByteDance. And let’s not forget that Manner Coffee, a Shanghai-based cafe chain, and Ning Ji, a Chinese lemon tea brand, both count ByteDance as a significant investor.

Some experts say ByteDance’s ballooning beyond social media is concerning because of the Chinese government’s investments in ByteDance and Beijing’s sweeping laws requiring companies there to turn over information for national security and intelligence reasons. ByteDance is “the mothership of aggregation of data,” the former head of counterintelligence for the U.S. government, William Evanina, told Forbes.

The key difference between ByteDance and Amazon, which is similarly expanding into healthcare with its acquisition of OneMedical, is that “Amazon does not partner with nor get money from the U.S. government, and they are not beholden [with] the data,” Evanina added. “With ByteDance, they've got to provide all that to the Communist Party.” (ByteDance did not respond to a request for comment about this assertion.)

Other experts think ByteDance’s data collection isn’t so different from American tech giants. “I don’t see ByteDance or TikTok’s data having more national security implications than data held by Facebook or Google,” said Xiaomeng Lu, director of the geo-technology practice at the Eurasia Group.

Though ByteDance’s value has dropped below $300 billion as the broader tech market tumbles, the decade-old startup has quickly grown to rival Chinese tech titans Alibaba and Tencent, which have been around for twice as long.

“ByteDance becoming large enough to receive attention and potentially investment and the kind of golden-share deal that the Chinese state has with Tencent is [cause for concern],” said Will Duffield, a policy analyst at the Cato Institute focused on internet governance. “The larger a Chinese company gets, the more important it is to the Chinese economy, and therefore the Chinese Communist Party and the state — because the Chinese economy is essentially an extension of the state.”

Here’s how ByteDance has grown since it was hatched in a four-bedroom apartment in 2012.

NEWS

Years before ByteDance would launch Douyin (China’s version of TikTok) and TikTok itself outside mainland China, one of its first products was news service Toutiao. By 2017, Toutiao had amassed some 700 million users in China — and ByteDance also rolled out an international version of it, TopBuzz, aimed at audiences in the United States. TopBuzz cultivated more than 40 million U.S. users by 2018 but was shut down in 2020. Former employees of the app say ByteDance used it to push pro-Chinese messages to American users and censored content critical of the Chinese government. (ByteDance denied the former employees’ claims about content promotion, but did not comment on the censorship allegations.)

In late 2017, ByteDance also acquired French news aggregator app News Republic. That, too, was shut down shortly after TopBuzz over concerns about the company’s censoring of content critical of the Chinese government.

In 2018, ByteDance also acquired Baca Berita, or BaBe, a news app in Indonesia. (BaBe also reportedly censored content critical of the Chinese government; a representative for BaBe told Reuters that the company “disagreed with the [reported] claims.”)

Cato’s Duffield said lesser-known news apps and media properties owned by ByteDance — those that haven’t received the same level of scrutiny as TikTok — could be the greatest “vectors for foreign propaganda” because they’re “not going to have those safeguards that we've demanded for TikTok.”

ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE

ByteDance came out with its first enterprise product, Lark (known as Feishu in China), in 2019 — a workplace collaboration tool that has grown to look more and more like ByteDance’s version of Google or Microsoft’s products.

The Chinese have “tried for a decade-plus to create their own Windows,” Evanina said. “Lark seems to be that.”

ByteDance and TikTok employees conduct all their day-to-day business on Lark, as do a long list of customers across Asia, but Forbes has also identified at least one company operating in the U.S. that is using Lark.

Separately, in 2021, ByteDance launched BytePlus, an effort to take ByteDance’s successful recommendation algorithm developed on TikTok, Douyin and Toutiao and to market it as a business-to-business product. It has had clients in the U.S., Singapore, Indonesia and India.

HEALTHCARE

ByteDance started moving into medicine well before it bought the Amcare hospital chain earlier this month.

That was preceded by its acquisition of the online medical encyclopedia Baikemy in 2020 and the subsequent launch of a suite of healthcare tools, under the name Xiaohe, that patients could use to find medical information and schedule virtual health consultations.

Evanina said the Amcare deal, and the related moves that came before it, reflect the Chinese government’s mandate for the country to be a global leader in artificial intelligence and global health by 2030.

“China wants to lead the world in precision medicine by the end of the decade,” he said. “Part of that is a strategic plan to purchase and have access to as much data as physically and electronically possible.”

“If you're going to build a society and you want to create data repositories,” he added, “you need companies like ByteDance to do your work.”

Lu, the director at the Eurasia Group, said that ByteDance's diversification into healthcare could help it gain an edge on its US rivals: Supplementing what ByteDance already knows about its users with detailed medical information could make its data "way more comprehensive and way more sophisticated," she said.

VR

ByteDance’s first big move into virtual reality came when it bought Pico, one of the world’s largest manufacturers of VR headsets, in 2021. (The sale price was not disclosed.)

In March 2022, ByteDance started aggressively promoting its VR offerings: Users of Douyin, China’s TikTok equivalent, began seeing prominent ads for Pico headsets every time they opened the app. In June 2022, Pico rolled out a new headset in European markets, and in July, FCC filings revealed the company’s plans to launch the headset in the US as well.

Bytedance most recently snapped up PoliQ, a Chinese VR startup that had previously developed a platform used to make avatars. It is also testing out apps like avatar-based hangout app Party Island in China and avatar creation app Pixsoul in Southeast Asia.

SOCIAL NETWORKING AND SHORT-FORM VIDEO

This is the sector ByteDance is best known for. It rolled out its first short-form video app, Douyin, in China in 2016. It then acquired two US-based companies, Flipagram and Musical.ly. Both were short video apps that mostly catered to lip-syncing teens.

After briefly pitting Flipagram and Musical.ly against each other, ByteDance renamed Flipagram as Vigo Video, and rebranded Musical.ly as TikTok. Today, the architecture of TikTok’s and Douyin’s algorithms are largely the same, but the data running through them is different — as one former TikTok employee described it, they are the same bottles, but filled with different juice. Douyin also has various e-commerce features and a payment processor built into it. (ByteDance also acquired payment processor UIPay in 2020.)

ByteDance also has other social video apps, including Xigua (“Watermelon”) Video, a video-sharing app that was initially called Toutiao Video. (It has since expanded beyond user-generated videos to studio production, including 2020 partnerships with BBC Studios and Discovery.)

In addition to its video offerings, ByteDance has also dabbled in text- and photo-based social platforms similar to Facebook and Instagram. Helo, a Facebook rival popular in India that ByteDance launched in 2018, was the biggest of these offerings — but it suffered when India banned a suite of China-based apps, including Helo and TikTok.

ByteDance has also developed music-streaming service Resso and video editor CapCut.

And up next? ByteDance is reportedly readying to launch Kesong, a youth-focused social media app centered on lifestyle and hobbies that is expected to take on Xiaohongshu, a Chinese platform similar to Instagram. And Douyin recently began testing a food delivery feature.

GAMING

ByteDance bought Shanghai-based video-gaming startup Mokun Technology in 2019, followed by gaming studio Levelup.ai, to fuel its gaming arm called Nuverse. It made one of its biggest plays yet in the market just last year, when it spent $4 billion to acquire the major Chinese video game maker Moonton and an undisclosed amount to buy Chinese gaming studio C4games. According to a 2021 developer handbook, the company plans to use targeted recommendations to drive growth in the sector.

This expansion hasn’t been without hiccups; the company recently shuttered its 101 Studio in Shanghai, laying off over 100 employees.

Still, in the last year, the giant’s mobile gaming portfolio has raked in more than $1 billion from players around the world, according to Sensor Tower — and its push into this space is only expected to intensify as it seeks to keep pace with rivals like Tencent.

Its foray into smartphones, however, under the brand Smartisan, was less successful. ByteDance released a phone on the Chinese market in 2019, after acquiring some patents and employees from Smartisan. But just a few months after the phone’s release, ByteDance shifted its smartphone team over to work on education hardware.

EDUCATION

In 2016, ByteDance began investing in education-based companies and building out education products of its own, subsequently launching its edtech brand Dali for consumers in China in 2020. At the time of the announcement, the company said the brand already had 10,000 employees, and it was warmly received as demand was soaring for digital learning products due to the Covid-19 lockdowns. ByteDance leaned even harder into education the following year, announcing it would hire another 13,000 employees to work on its online learning products, like English tutoring app GoGoKid, and Qingbei, a streaming app for online classes.

But in late 2021, the Chinese government banned most for-profit tutoring services and imposed harsh crackdowns on what could be taught to students, further strengthening those regulations this year. The regulations, as Lu put it, were a response to fears by the government that capital had “distorted the [education] market,” causing public school teachers to moonlight after school, and charge students who wanted or needed extra help. The crackdowns, which Lu characterized as “practically a wipeout” of the tutoring industry, were devastating for ByteDance, which had mass layoffs as it shut down some products and retooled others to come into compliance with the new rules.

[Skybird]

Didnt know that, good to learn that.

[Skybird]

Coming later this year. And I am wondering - is this really my kind of humour?


You bet! :O:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwTSIpAGjL8

[Skybird]

I am surprised. This shows the Oculus Quest 2 (in house tracking...) can obviously run well Eleven Table Tennis, which, as often said, imo is one of the best VR experiences around, and a fantastic simulation of its subject. Tracking seems to work betten with the Quest 2 than with my G2 Reverb, which is also inhouse tracking.

The video in the second half shows footage from them playing against each other. Without a PC. They speak Germa, but the English dub is already in build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67hV46mXaoc

And this guy, obviously a well versed real table tennis player, runs a whole course on learning table tennis via Eleven (unfortunately in German) - and where you have to adapt to differences to reality. For example the controller with the Quest 2 has 30 microseconds delay, so if you swing your hand in your wrist at the very last moment before hitting the ball, this swing effect, resulting in effet to the ball, maybe will not even get translated into the strike - you have to adapt, either by altering your movement a bit, or by changing playing style and using more straight hits/strikes.

https://www.youtube.com/@elevengermanymadviolinvr-t3662

And finally, this - is that real table tennis or not, eh...?! I played the AI back then, that too is a BEAST...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjaRvCm1_J8

The game is said to have a very active player community and there are several internaitonal tournaments and leagues running. The onlöine lobby to find players for the occaisonal game also was very active when I played it.

Man, I really need to find a way to get back into this. Best simulation of a sports that I've ever played.

[Skybird]

I recently stumbled over a few Blu Rays that caused trouble to be played when mirroring the desktop into the VR mask. Maybe its worth to describe the ways to go precisely for those who may be interested.

In the following I always mean that I have the Virtual Desktop software runnign that mirrors the desktop and the video window into the VR headset and onto the voirtual movie screen.

I used the Leawo Player to plays video discs on PC. Its basic version can be had for free. It has played all DVDs, but sent the sound always not to the mask, but to the normal sound output channel that I use when beign in 2D, not VR. It has played the few Blu Rays I tried, the sound again was not in the mask, but the nornmal in ear plugs that I use. To switch on or off subtitles or chose language, in-game submenues are available, took me some time at times to set it right, but so far I always got things solved. But recently I had a few Blu Rays that had a copy protection the software could not unlock (both in VR and 2D). End of game.

So I tried Power DVD 22. A test version is available for free for 30 days.
It plays DVDs always corretcly, and it also sends the sound intpo the headset, nbot to the other in ear speaker I use in 2D. But BluRay is a complete dud: none of the Blu Rays I tried resulted in anythign else than a blakc screen in VR. The sound again is in the headset, correctly. Blurays get played on the monitor in 2D. - The onboard VR solution of the software did not work at all for me, its nonsense.

This means that in the way I set things up to have a perfect cinema experience, I can play 100% of DVDs with sound in the headset, and most Blu Rays with external headphone sound, only a few Blu Rays do not get recognised.

As I described, Virtual Desktop allows oyu to use severla different conemas halls form the workshop at Steam. Some have small screens, some have medium screens, some have giant screens. The by far biggest screen is the Highmaxx Cinema at Sidney (dark theme I use), and really, that thign is huge! The point is even in the VR headset with its m ini-monitors inbside you see the diufference in resolution between a DVD and a Blu Ray, inf act you see the difference much more clearly than on your PC monitor. So, woith a Bku Ray you get a totally clear and razoirsharp image qulaity in all movie halls and on all screen sizes incöluding ther Highmaxx, but if you play a DVD, then the bigger the screen in the movie hall of your choice the more the image quality shows the diferrenbce to a Blu Ray. That is not to say it is bad or unsuable, hell, far form it. Ypou could compare it to polder films form the 60s or 50s, that were not as crispy as films shot in modern times. In VR, in fact DVD looks, regarding resolutoon and pixelation, like some not-so-brandnew movie on a real moviescreen - these were also not lasersharp.

If I start a movie evbening with a desire dmovie of my choice, I do not watch such films differently than in this virtual cinema setup anymore, it is superior to any solution you could set up with a real world big screen TV. But i live along, do nto weatch movies with fmaily, wife and kids. I understand that in that social context the setup is unpractical (already 3D movies with much smaller shutter glasses to be worn from some years ago failed and have dissaperd form the market). But if you watch alone, then this is the way to go. A Blu Ray in VR and set up like I described gives you a sharper image and better resolution than a big screen 4K TV like my neighbour has. A DVD also beats big format high res TV any time.

------


1 Launch headset and have it running.
2 Launch Virtual Desktop
3 Set Virtual Desktop to a moviehall theme you downloaded from Steam Workshop, Highmaxx Dark Theme for example.
4 Put the disk in the drive and launch your disc playing software.
5 Put on your headset and enjoy! Its all much less complicated than it maybe sounds.

[Skybird]

Quest 3 is coming. Interesting, but I have unanswered questions (battery life, Google-Earth cvapable, quality of hand tracking). I have no needs and cravings currently, so I can wait and see how customers review it once it is out. I would like to play Eleven Table Tennis and First Person Tennis again, however, so I pin a note to myself about this on my mental blackboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrPvIT4Krgs


2064 × 2208 pixels per eye, OLED display at 120 Hz - thats very good! My G2 Reverb has 2160x2160.


Meta Oculus Quest 3 specifications leak

SoC Qualcomm Snapdragon XR2 Gen 2
Resolution (Per-eye) 2064 × 2208
Display type LCD
Refresh rate120Hz
Field of view Unknown
Lenses Pancake
Features Hand tracking, PC compatibility, voice commands, wireless, Mixed reality
Controllers Unknown
Weight Unknown
Price $499

[Skybird]

This explains how to run Google Earth/Streetview VR on Quest 2 (which out of the box will not run it).



https://vrlowdown.com/google-earth-vr-on-quest-2/

[Skybird]

After several years of having been withdrawn from the shop, SKYBOX VR is available again in the Steam shop.

Its a video file player, it plays practically every sort of video store don the HD, also seems to allo9w strwemaing of youtube and such channels, and iof you use a Quest, you can even strema to severla units simultaneously.

I know it form my time wiht the Rift, and liked it very much, due to the very beauitiful movie room and the complication-free operation. You can seat near the screen, in the kiddle of the hall, or far back, also cna alter the lights. Really, its a pleasure to watch something on screen in this cinema hall. I may not have fully understood it, by possibly different VR headsets vary in the functionality, namely the onöine web streaming.

This is no Bluray or DVD player, however. For that and in VR, you need Power DVD or Leovo and operate them via Virtual Desktop and its many beautiful moviehalls.

So, its not really a must-have, but I wanted to mention it since I always liked it, and since it does well what it does and looks really good.


https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/721090/ss_17353ac539a228a7c73be8f64f043493ffe16293.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1637058587


CLICK ON PICTURE (TWICE)

https://skybox.xyz/img/movie-theatre-bg.f2c2dee9.jpg


I do not watch TV that much anymore, and not many movies at all, but when I do watch a DVD or Bluray, I exclusively watch it in one of my half a dozen private movie halls I now "own". Its fantastic once one understood how to set it up.

[Skybird]

I am considering to get the Quest 3 later this autumn when it gets released. Twice as fast as the 2, 30% more resolution, slimmer design, and the option to see your room on screen (in colour, it seems) and the gameworld projected in/on it.

I am still happy with my G2. But I want to get VR for my parents. Google Earth is not available for Quest 2, but maybe they bring it for the 3 since it is has so much more processing power, however with "Wanderer" you have access to the Streetview part of the Google title, and it seems to run as smooth as in Earth. I also want to allow my parents to watch nature and citytour movies on the big screen like I do, and 360° videos and such, And who knows, maybe I can turn them into Table Tennis Cracks, at mid-70s there is still time to improve, eh? LOL

The idea is that it is maybe no total failure if they cannot get along with it, turn into vomitting zombies or fall out of the window when they see its a door. Because I am interested in it, too, since players say already for the Quest 2 that some of the sports titles I dearly miss - Eleven Table Tennis and First Person Tennis topping the list, but also The Thrill of the Fight which is a fantastic shadow boxing simulator - seem to play very well on the Quest 2. The problem with the G2 is that the hand tracking is not too good, so the precision when stroking/hitting the ball is not high enough, especially in table tennis that is a killer problem. Thats why I dont play them on the G2. I also would not mind to watch a longer youtube movie not wired to my PC and sitting at the desk, but on the balcony or laying on the bed. And playing tennis must be a joy without the cables interfering with your wide arm movements (I use to really fully swing out the strike like I did in real tennis, not just whipping a shot with a short flip of my hand: its like with any sim there ever were: you get back what you put into it). So, the money wouldn't be lost if my parents dont use it, I could make good use of it myself.



Heck, I even did a few online maqtches in FPT Tennis when I still used the Rift 1. And heck, how nice that was! I was lucky to meet polite players.


So far its just my guess that maybe Google Earth will come to Quest 3, finally, since the processor doubles the power over the Quest 2. But Google has formally ended development of Google Earth already years ago, and "killed" the team, so... On the othert hand there were a few small maintenance updates, so maybe they still can opt for directing team ressoruces to it where they see a need. Having Streetview in Wander already is great, getting the rest of Earth along with it would be fantastic. Earth alone justifies to get a VR headset, its a true killer app. Connecting the Quest 3 via wire to the small laptop of my parents wich runs under Linux is no option: wrong OS, and too low calculation power.


But now you know that even a Quest 2 owener can get to enjoy Earth - he only has to connect his set to the PC via wire.


-----------------


Neal, I know you got yourself a Quest 2 recently, I would like to hear if you have anything worth to mention, any cautioning words or enthusiastic outbursts? And how does Yioutube work on it, good enough? My parents are old, but my Mom is still fit in her head, still things must be really easy in handling if its too complicated, then its all in vein. Also, is there the option to use sort of a webbrower by which you can access a TV broadcaster's public media library, for exmaple?

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaWo1LSugaw


For those who are still in wait on VR, this might be the one headset you have been waiting for to let yourself getting convinced.



No wonder that HP, who made the G2, dropped otu of the VR business, its hard to develepe and commercially compete if you are up against a company so dedicated to developing VR.



The video expresses some sort of doubts on thje controllers, which will not be bad in themselves,k but that of the Pro mighgt be better. I red somewhere the Pro Controllers can be bought separately and work with the 3. I cannot tell you whether this was just rumour, or fact.


In Germany, the price will be around 550 coins at launch.

[Skybird]

A very nice illustration why I want First Person Tennis back in my active game collection. Beside Eleven the best realistic sports simulation on VR. With a human opponent even better. When I played it until two year ago with my old Rift, I made the same mistakes (usually standing/positioning errors) and got the same consequences like I got in real tennis back then. Below the belt - leg work - obviously is not on the menu, but above belt - arms work and body work - it is very, very close to the real thing, if you out the effort into it. The way I played it, which was very very engaged, it had workout qulity for me: racing pulse, lots of sweat, comparable to what I have when jogging. Just do nto just stand and woith a lack of interest move your ahnd as if holding a pencil, but do the real swing deal, find the correct stand in relation to the ball and strike you plan to do - then its a fantastic experience.

The player in the video is not even a good one, but the video shows better than most others what it looks like from the players perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkQ8Em2hky4

Maybe I will need to buy TWO Quest 3s. One for my parents - and one for myself. :D


Edit: the developer says the dedicated version for the Quest works significantly better than the Steam version played with Link-cable on PC.

[Skybird]

I want my game back...! :wah: Eleven rules. Most realistic simulator in VR, period. And did I hear it right what he says near the end? "Cloning myself"...? Their is an upcomign feature where the game clones a copy of myself: my serves, my topspins, slices, saves, everything, and creates an AI opponent on grounds of my playing characteristics good and bad. How fantastic is that...? Skybird, thy new name is Molly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPpVxbRCRBw

Its decided, no matter why parent's intwerest, for myself I will get a Quest 3 anyway. I just need these two games again, before I become even fatter than I already got in the 36 months without them. :D
These two videos make me confident about the hand tracking. On the G2 that is what makes both games practically unplayable.


A club player's assessment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqLj11ZGqXk

[Skybird]

On the controllers for Quest 3. Seem to be very precise, and latency within limits.

https://mixed-news.com/en/quest-3-controller-tracking-quality/

Touch Pro Controllers from the - underwhelmingly received and overpriced - Quest Pro can be used.

The Mixed Reality - named Passthrough - of the Quest 3 will be in colour, and is sharp enough so that you can text on your smartphone or read your watch. Also, as far as I believe to have understood, it pictures your surrounding in stereoscopic 3D, too. Apps must apparently support this feature, though the Quest 2 allows manual activation for a certain time by doing some gesture trick with the hand near your headset. I strongly assume this is present in the Quest 3, too. Not just people with kids will like this feature.

And here are some gadgets I find to be very useful.

Warmth, lense fogging and sweat is a problem under the mask, especially if you run a sports or workout title. Although I read the Quest 3 is cooler than other masks: I beleiuve it when I see it. A ventilator pointing to your face is a must in VR anyway, but something like this also is good and is a must for me when I did my workouts with BoxVR (still the best of its kind imo even if they do not sell it anymore, the successor looks much inferior):
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Zegf88D0L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

With Golf+ and Walkabout Minigolf there are at least two very popular Golf titles, and when you swing your irons, you may want to use one of these sticks, which come in many models from various brands, some of them exactly mimicking the weight of a real Golf bat. Stick. Racket. What were they called like? :)
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61L4Ut4h0rL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The lock must of course match the form of the handcontroller. Not any controller may work on any such stick. Most are for the Quest 1+2. The new Quest 3 controllers have no tracking rings anymore, so one has to wait for producers to adapt.

And very interesting for me: table tennis grips. Because like in "big" tennis, you may want to change your hand's grip around the paddle's grip depending on your strikes. Thats not working too well with VR default controllers. If you are serious about table tennis, you NEED something like this. If you just pingpong a bit, you dont.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61vAzL1H-JL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
Needless to say, such grips also exist for pistols and rifles.

When I row with Mirage Kayak I use to additionally hold a bar in both hands, plus the controllers. It helps to make much more natural and realistic arm movements, this improves technique, this improves speed, stability, manouverability

It slike with any sim: what you put into it is what you get out from it. Approach it like an arcade game, and arcade is what the title gives you back. Approach it with an attitude of matching the real thing, and you get much more realism out of it. Its like that with flight sims. Racing sims. And realistic sports sims in VR as well.

Finally, this trailer, its the usual commercial picture stuff, but from 00:00:35 on you get an idea what Passthrough (mixed reality) with the Quest 3 is about, what the idea behind it is. The AI in the headset is described to be able by itself to identify reasonable spaces in the real world where to project VR content, and scaling it correctly. It is also to be used for the guardian system that projects a virtual cage or warnings into your field of vision when you approach the limit of the real world space that you defined in the setup to be your playing area, so now you have the pleasure to see the cupboard in real time that you are about to slam into. That allows for just panic screams just in time. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKl_cEB26c

The Quest 2 will be on sale for some time after release, it already is (~ 320 coins over here), but be aware that you get some less technology with it: 50% less processing power, 40% less resolution, black/white and pixelated 2D Passthrough , slightly thicker size. The official Quest shop holds over 500 games and apps, Quest 3 is said by Meta to be compatible with them.

The boss of the VR department at Meta says the Quest 3 starts the real phase 2.0 in VR, and by the printed stuff so far I wonder how it could not be so, this could become a market breakthrough. Something tells me that Apple can pack its thing and leave. Their price tag for their headset is ridiculous.

[Skybird]

On the controllers of the Quest Pro. Pricey, but sexy, self-tracking. If need be, one can buy these seperately for the Quest 1-3.


https://mixed-news.com/en/metas-new-touch-pro-controllers-come-with-many-added-features/


The controllers that come with the Quest 2. They seem to pass the test with flying colours.


https://mixed-news.com/en/quest-3-controller-tracking-quality/

[Skybird]

Squash in the planetarium. Solo, Multiplayer coop and against each other. After 6 years this is still one of the best games in VR, and a star in the sports genre. Solo play can get very dramatic and challenging.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agPPxSjMhG0

[Onkel Neal]

Neal, I know you got yourself a Quest 2 recently, I would like to hear if you have anything worth to mention, any cautioning words or enthusiastic outbursts? And how does Yioutube work on it, good enough? My parents are old, but my Mom is still fit in her head, still things must be really easy in handling if its too complicated, then its all in vein. Also, is there the option to use sort of a webbrower by which you can access a TV broadcaster's public media library, for exmaple?

Hey Sky, yes, you can watch youtube and video with the Quest 2, but unless the content is made for VR, I think it's better to watch on just a monitor. And there are a few games and visual series that are enjoyable--I have not been keeping up with what's available lately. I like the Quest 2 mainly because they made it where the headunit has all the location sensors built in, so you don't need to place a bunch of stuff in the room. The resolution is good but not fantastic. You can connect it with a wire to play Steam games (maybe play some without the wire). It's fun, but more of a novelty than an everyday appliance for me.

[Skybird]

Thanks, Neal.

So I would expect the Quest 3 to have noticably better image quality, due to better lenses than the G2 and higher resolution than the Quest 2 (comparable to the G2), it should in total be at least as good as the G2, if not very slighly better.

G2 versus Quest 2:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/monthly_2021_03/Quest2-G2.png.189f4b5ec706537db6da7ec7293e7b47.png

You may want to check a (free) software named BigScreen. It includes a huge collection of places with smaller or bigger screens on which the desktop is mirrored, and other guests can be invited into these rooms to chat or view content together: classrooms, living rooms, moviehalls. The social thing may be uninteresting, but think of this: mirroring the desktop on such a moviescreen, for example, starting youtube and then have the content maximised to full screen on the real monitor means you watch that content in moviescreen format in VR. Or this: I play Wreckfest in this way, which ahs no native VR support. Its still 2D, but I do not play on a small montior, but on a screen the soze of a squash field! Visually, that is a game changer, even if just 2D. I do that a very lot via another software, VirtualDesktop, and even watch movies via DVD and bluray that way - on screens the size of cinemas screens.

I think that is absolutely fantastic!

I take from your words that the handling and launching of software and of youtube in the Quest is not overly complicated. I ask from the perspective of my old parents.

And do yourself a favour. Get Eleven Table Tennis. Best and most realistic sports simulation you have ever played, promised. Its surreal how good it is.

[Skybird]

Meta has introduced its anticipated Quest 3 headset to the public today. Visitors were able to check and play all functions and test 6 games for one hour per person. The feedback is extremely positive, a majority seems to think of this as a breakthrough.



Release date is Octobre 10th.



Preorder now is possible. I placed mine.

[Skybird]

Tomorrow I should get - with 2 days delay - my Quest 3.

Rumours are solidifying that Vavle is working on a headset like the Quest, too. I assume it will be much more expensive.

Meanwhile I found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKcON9aYPGw

I am especially curious for the Passthrough technology. It cannot be activated for just any title, but it must get hardcoded into every title. Two exmaples.

The first is form the Quest 3, so the room is shown in colour, and crispies and sharper than in the Quest 3. The guy first measures his room in, and then you see in sort of a demo what can be done with that data. Not that I play such games, but its interesting to see the possibilities.

The seocnd is from the Quest 2, so the room is in black.-white, and blurrier. This is a Beta fucntion of The Thrill of the Fight, the best boxing sim I have ever seen and tried (its a workout :) ). The fat green guy is not representative for the game, he is the lowest ranking of all AI bots. Thrill of the Fight 2 is in development, btw. Mind you again: the film is for Quest 2, not 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCKsaBtqhR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaKG6_SuvP8

Obviously that was not in black white, I found a better demo video, its from the quest pro, passhtrough in colour. Its said the passthrough in quest 3 is even better.


I also plan to find out about cable-free airlink connection to my PC, and then going into the cinema like I do on PC, just stremaing it to the Quest while now being able to move freely in my flat, and sit where I want, not at the desk. Airlink, that is linking to PC without cable and so being able to run software that natively is not avialable for the Quest 3 (Google Earth, complex simulations etc)., already was demonstrated to even work with complex stuff like Flight Simulator 2020! Wowh. Just need to get it going. Airlink, I mean.

[Skybird]

I played table tennis again today! :yeah: In my living room...! :D

Got the Quest 3 today.

Installation went without a flaw, I had prepared the software on the tablet already yesterday, and on PC (for Airlink streaming, untested so far). Last time I had an Oculus was the Rift, and I now come form a G2 Reverb (discontinued by HP by now). I had to access the WLAN, and then to link to the tablet. Scanning the QR code form screen did not work for me, like for many others, but manualyl typing in the codes worked flawlessly.

The hardware has a very good feel, the handles are heavy and like made for my hands, the feeling of the buttons and sticks is just - perfect. The headste is lighter thna the G2, the strap is to be repalced, but doe sits job meanwhile. The case again feels valuabvly, well-made. The box these three come in, is a luxury item almost, very heavy, build to last, idela to store the gadgets away when not in use. Very good first impressions, like I expected from MetaformerOculus. I liked the Rift back in its days, and its handles. This hardware even feels much better.

But when I first put the mask on (all conneciton and such is done form inside the mask), I was almost shocked, I did not saw this coming. The image quality is - well, it blows the G2 out of the water.. Absolutely stunning. No pixels. No Gorrays, no screendoor efect, not fresnel lense artifactsa - nothing, as smooth and clear the image is as if looking at a normal LCD screen. Next shock - it was not the usual VR darkness greeting me when putting the mask on, but there wa slight and colour - I saw my living room around me, surprisngly sharp where the tbalelmap lit it up, a bit granular in darker parts of the room (at time of sunset and overcast sky). And coloured. I could read book print, I could read my tablet, I could read the PC monitor. I could reliable grab things and even pince tiny things between pointing finger and thumb - the perception of depth works well enough. That thign even reocnginses my hands and fingers without holding a controller! I did not knew this and so I did not expect this. This was far more than what I expected to get: a secondary "junior" headset that is mobile and thus weak in power - in fact it almost outclasses the G2.

I launched the demo, the game witt that ufo in your room form the video above. I scnaned my room, that was already fun, sort of. An then the ufo landed, not on the floor, but on the bad, the elevated surface was correctly reocngised. Then the alien fuzzballs started to get all over the place, and they hid behind objects and furniture, I had scanned the kitchen as well and so I ended upo running aorudn in my flat, chasing little aliens, all the time I saw my surrounding and my furnitures and my apartment. Wowh! It dawned on my that this was somethign much bigger than I had anticipated.

And then I bliught Eleven Table Tennis, as you know by now, one of my favourites. The menu was reworked, and to my surprise I ther eis now an option for passtrough scneery, your room, that is. I picked that immediately, and really was blown awa ynext, there I was, with a tbasletennis table in the middle of my main room, and I coudl see my place and palyed table tennis in my place, and the feeling was perfect and the handtracking (the big archilles heel of the G2) was a dream, worked flawlessly, even in lower light conditions.

Its absolutely fantastic! :salute: I'm happy.

Also, being cableless now is a big, big liberation. PC not needed as long as you do not stream stuff from PC.

The German package comes with a free copy of the new Asgard's Wrath game, not already avalable, but I got my download copy reserved for free. Not my kind fo game nromally, but I will try it, the reviews are stellar.

There are some more games I will try with this new headset, and I will post updates on the experinces with them. Tomorrow I will try Airlink and how well PC-based VR titles work. I am very confident. Google Earth is on my mind of course, and stremaing from the Bluray playe ron PC and watching my movie in the big cienemy - but this time sitting anywhere I want in my place, feeling utmost comfortable.

So far, first contact with the Quest 3 leaves an utmost excellent impressions. I am all in. The o nyl disadvanatge is that the battery runs for 2 hours only, that will be helped with a better strip and additional battery, doubling this time to 4 hours then, but it is not yet available over here. I will not get the charger, its not needed, but an additional silicon frame for the mask's rims, and when availab le: a table tennis grip to give it a more natural feel.

Visually, the screens of these things now have left all the early beginning's probolems behind the,m , and the image quality really is excellent. The G2 has SLIGHTLY more pixels per ye, but it has a hotspot in the centre where oyu see sharp, and the image becomes blurry near the egdes. The Quest 3 is crytsal-sharp from centre to rim, all screen, and loosk as if it offered a higher resolution as well! Fresnel lenses versus pancake lenses - the last battle has been fought, the war is decided.

I'm happy and do not regret to have bought it. Not one bit. I am enthusiastic, to be more precise.

Some passthrough stuff:

Eleven (mind you, the room is real, no computer location):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7vBAemeTBk

Piano Vision (yes, I am still doing the piano!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apwZTV-Rg0s


And the free game in the German combo, Asgard'S Wrath:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AeMI-qHtt8

[mapuc]

I wrote earlier that I would buy a VR set-Well I haven't and the reason is that I'm suffering from Glaucoma and myopia or was it long sighted.

Would I have the full experience in using a VR set ?

Markus

[Skybird]

I wrote earlier that I would buy a VR set-Well I haven't and the reason is that I'm suffering from Glaucoma and myopia or was it long sighted.

Would I have the full experience in using a VR set ?

Markus
I dont know. The distance that these lenses calibrate to in these VR headsets, the distance of the image plane I mean, is about 60-80 cm, usually. This is so that people don't have to squint, because without these lenses their eyes would have to focus on an image plane 2-3 cm in front of their pupil. I cannot tell you whether or not it would be a representaive test for your issue, but if you reahc outh your arm, can you view your fingertips sharp and clear? If so it might be worth a try to test a VR headset. In VR, the eyes ALWAYS focus on one and the same depth plane, a fixed distance, no matter whether you look at somethign on your virtual table you sit at, or to the distant virtual horizon. Otherwise ask your optician or ophthalmologist. All I can say is the image in the headset is very clear and sharp. Man, no comparison at all to the Oculus Rift from 2017...

[mapuc]

I dont know. The distance that these lenses calibrate to in these VR headsets, the distance of the image plane I mean, is about 60-80 cm, usually. This is so that people don't have to squint, because without these lenses their eyes would have to focus on an image plane 2-3 cm in front of their pupil. I cannot tell you whether or not it would be a representaive test for your issue, but if you reahc outh your arm, can you view your fingertips sharp and clear? If so it might be worth a try to test a VR headset. In VR, the eyes ALWAYS focus on one and the same depth plane, a fixed distance, no matter whether you look at somethign on your virtual table you sit at, or to the distant virtual horizon. Otherwise ask your optician or ophthalmologist. All I can say is the image in the headset is very clear and sharp. Man, no comparison at all to the Oculus Rift from 2017...

Thank you for your answer it made me do a search and found this video
Have seen around 8 minutes and what I have seen so far is interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCsAPaAhCaY&ab_channel=Dr.EyeGuy

Markus

[Skybird]

More tests. And light and shadow.
The shadow first, I could nbot get Airlink runnign so far, the headset finds the PC, but refuses to connect to it. The online talk and noise on this apparently widespread problem is much and loud, nobody seems to really know a cure, even more so sicne some player report (with Quest 2) that a working installation suddenly after months of fine work stopped working. I had thjat twice with the old Rift, after a Windows Update. That garbage from Microsoft easily ruins an awful lot in the background.
I will try next tomorrow with a cable and more care for the USB ports, a quick such shot a hour ago also did not work. Hm...


To the lights added to the collection, First Person Tennis is a blast, super crispy and - it also features a passthrough mode, a specila one were you stand in your room and in your wll is a moving wide gate that opens upo to the tennis court. Its hard to explain, but it works and prevents you from smashing your TV with that smashing serve or last second power return. Of the court you see what you must. The openign moves left and right according to your own running at the baseline. It is ver yimprotant in this game to have an idea or better now: an image of where stuff stands aroudn you, elkse you ploay with a mentla handicap, you hold yourself back becasue fo fear of derstroying somethign with your swinging arms. I play his game like aberserk, with full physicla power, not just dont-touch-Granny-too-hard shy wrist moves of the racket like you see so often in youtube videos. I hit the ball like it should be hit in Tennis, and you can take that literally. Sweat must be shed, else it is no tennis.



Racket NX is now "unleashed". In this 360° squash-like game, you turn around your own axis a lot, so the cables of earlier headsets are a real handicap, even if they hang from the ceiling. Now there's full freedom of movement, I let off steam. It really did me good! You have to really get into these hit-the-ball simulations, you must donate rela power, then you'll get something satisfying out of them. Lets get raw! If Squash and Breakout would ever had a baby, this would have been it. 2-player playing is possible.



And Vermillion, what should I say, I have easel and brush stand and pallet holder now in the middle of my living room, it fits completely naturally into my furniture. I just can't get over it. It's just crazy. Völlig irre!.

First Person Tennis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkQ8Em2hky4

Racket NX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyth6fa9isk



Vermillion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jTCRuue_yo

[Skybird]

Airlink is no thing that runs smooth all by itself. I finally managed to get it running, but I had to link via cable first, then in the cable options switching on an option that airlink should deactivate cable, and then suddenly the airlink link connection was there. But then the roomguard boundary marker was all time on. Something does not work as it should, and Airlink still does not link to the PC that it finds if not hanging on a cable first, which makes the whole idea somewhat pointless. The drivers of Oculus Rift always were a highly sensible affair back with the Rift, the headset broke down several times, always it was in the software something that did not work all of a sudden anymore. It seems they still follow that tradition. :arrgh!:


I must say however, that as a standalone headset without link, the set worked flawlessly this afternoon.


I checked two cinemas in Virtual Desktop on PC and was shocked again hiow ver ymuch better they looked than in the G2, so smooth, smooth like silk, and clear in details and contours. And I though the G2 already were good!


I ordered the socalled Elite strap with battery. It should give a more comfortable hold, and doubles the running time of the battery to 4-6 hours.


Airlink will get solved sooner or later, one way or the other. But not tonight anmyore.

[Skybird]

Thank you for your answer it made me do a search and found this video
Have seen around 8 minutes and what I have seen so far is interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCsAPaAhCaY&ab_channel=Dr.EyeGuy

Markus
I used such lenses in the Rift, they worked well for me, at around 6 diopters. In the G2 and now in the Quest 3 I wear the glasses, no problem. The Quest allows to alter pupil distance and distance of the lenses of the headset from your face, so you can increase the space inside the mask to get glasses under it.

[Skybird]

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: Hahahaha, forget Airlink. I got Virtual Desktop on the mask, I got the Virtual Desktop Streaming app on PC, and it linked up everything by itself almost, just had to enter my Meta callsign, and all is well and it works as intended. This way I set it all up within 2-3 minutes! Virtual Desktop is the way to go!

However, I need to check the Firewall, for proof of concept I had it switched off, it is advisable to find out how to just open the needed channels.

Google Earth: works. Streetview: works, although I meantime got it via Wander. Watching Bluray movies in a cinema like I want to: works. Box VR, my most favourite fitness app ever, works.


All is good again! :Kaleun_Applaud:
Since it was free, I got Bigscreen.This morning, to wake up properly, I had a first boxing rumble with a boxer who attacked in in my own living room, and so I felt again The Thrill of the Fight. Three rounds later I needed to go under the shower, heavily breathing... :) Passthrough, you guess it. That thing more and more reaches status of a killer feature for me. The rumble took place all over my room (which I saw).

And finally, FINALLY, a proper Golf game, Golf + . I did the tutorial, played the first two holes on the first course, and already was in love. It balances realism and fun and easy access so perfectly like I saw it rarely only in a game. Can be played with an easier or a more detailed interface.

Now, I have ticked off all boxes and question marks on my list. Everything works now, or seems to. Everything is a VR quantum leap better. No compromises I had to accept. Better a transition from an older something to a newer one cannot go. Next week the Elite strap with additional battery, I expect no issues, its the original (=expensive) one. Silicon rims for the mask, and later, when they have released them, a tabletennis grip and maybe a stick-grip for tennis, golf and kayaking.

Its probably not necessary to summarise my final verdict and give an end note, you guess it alraedy: I am fully convinced of this Quest 3 headset and it probably is the by far best headset on the market within the affordable price range (say below 1000 Euros). I am already in love with it. If you ever considered to go into VR and shied away from it due to the combined costs of headset and beefy computer hardware, the latter is no factor now anymore, and the rest is absolutely marvelous imo. This is now. And this is the best option so far for anyone interested to go into VR.

If you want to see something grumpy, two things.

First, the resolution of the coloured passthrough is visibly less than the usual working resolution, but I would not call it a dealbreaker, it isn't, and it really does what it should and does it well: you can read something on your Pc monitor, or a handwritten note, you can reliably pick up even tiny objects with your fingers, you see your room quite clearly, so obviously it must be good enough to allow that. Better light is always better, it allows higher ISO, so to speak. Sure, in the future, this will be improved in further hardware, but that is years away, somebody one day will improve it, no doub.

Second, the Airlink. Meta is brought to shame by Virtual Desktop here, it should apologize to customers, because I meanwhile read on the web that many people have problems with it, and many of those who got it solved, report often high latency. Well, via VD I just played a round of A-10 VR, a two-blasters-in-hands shooter, and it all was supermsooth and super-synchronised. Even if the airlink would have worked as advertised, to get there every time needs you to manually control screens and transfer control numbers from one unit to the other VD: have PC running, launch the app in the mask, and the PC desktop shows up in the mask and you handle it like the original on the PC monitor. In this detail, Meta has really messed it up.

95 of 100 points from me. For my use and my needs, this one is a winner.


Quest 2 - Quest 3 display comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfDm45du-2c

Golf +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB-n_IzBAkQ




Wander:
Titles like Wander or Wooorld! access the Streetview database by Google, allowing to play with it even when not having access to Google Earth (which is not available for the Quest 1-3). They do things slightly dofferently, but in principle they are Streetview in disguise.



Bigscreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy__6baX8aQ

[Skybird]

The socalled Elitestrap+Battery for the Quest 3 arrived yesterday. It repalces the somewhat provisional default strap.

The battery extends the live time by multiplying that of the standalone mask by two, give and take. So, 4-4.5 hours.

The masks sits extrenly good with that strap, and is easier to adjust and to tak eon and off. Also, the facial part sits rocksolid on your face, even if you moe the had quickly. The things alltogether is a bit heavier now, of course, but that is compensated for by a better balance. A wheel in the neck tieghtens and loosens the fit. Very well-thought out desiogn, and all silikon wher eit touches the back of your head. That is good to know, because I use the headset last but not least for quite physical and sporting purposes, and so loose quite some sweat.

The battery in the back gets connected via a short cable into the only USB-C connector. Now, there is two things to consider that are not ideal. The backsid ebattery will emopty first when you play, until it ha sreached nil and then the mask's battery takes over. I do not like lithium ion batteies being emptied to zero, I never do that with my abtteries and bike batteries, but chnage when they are down to 20%. Vice versa, when loadingkt he powerplug goes now into the back battery, and through it first the mask gets loaded to 100%, and then the rear end battery. Thats also what I avoid with lithium batteires, I do not charge above 80% or so. Having batteries like this altering between 100% and 0% shortens their longevity, it sbetter to have lithium batteries opertaign between 80 and 20% charging status. You can do this with the Quest 3 only manually by pulling the connectur plug between both batteries.

An alternative to this - quit eexpensive - pack is to use a normal powerbank and a sufficnetly long cable. You carry the powerbank in a small picket on your belt for exmaple, and arrange the cable so that it does not get in your arm's way. A cable with a USB-C plug at a 90° angle would be recommended.

The Elitestrap strap is also availabe without a battery.

Afte r ore days of testing I think of the Quest 3 really as a game changer in VR. You get the superb display quality, the movement independence due to no cable to PC, excellent hand tracking even without holding the controllers (just make sure your plac eis sufficiently lit), and the Passthrough, which I found to be available in more games than I expected. I still start to giggle when I play table tennis with the table standing in my room and on my balcony.

The Quest has some really good hit-ball-with-racket sort of games, and severla also well-done sports and workout apps. With one of these I cardiacally attacked myself yesterday afternoon, and after 30, 35 minutes I was worn out and done and swam in my sweat.

I got a small,lbrary of games, soem I knew form before, some were new to me, and I gave back just one, a lousy pool game, the metastore runs a policy comparable to that of Steam, giving something back just takes more time to process.

With the crispy display, I got myself also two pistols-guns-and-rifles games, and while you miss the weight of the weapons and the stability that provides, aiming with various visors works surprisingly well, with the first Rift that was an exercise in futility.

I havent played First Person Tennis sn etwo years, the game has quite developed and I have a fantastic time with it. Its one of those must-have games, better it does not get. Eleven and Racket NX also are fantastic of course. Long live cable-free VR! :up:

Yesterday I saw a 360° video, beautiful natgure impressions form Austria in autumn, that guy films 360° opften in 8K quality and that really makes a diference (uusally, older 360° films are quite blurry), I provide the link so that you can chekc it out if you want. Note: there are TWO youtube apps for the Quest, Yotuube, and Youtube VR. To comfortably watch 360° via Stream, you need Youtube VR.

And the app Wander is a beautiful replacement for the absence of Googl Earth, and works as smooth as the Googole software does. I can only recommend it fullheartedly. With softweares like these, you can do real magic with VR. Magic. I swear it.

https://www.youtube.com/@KarolGazdikCreatorFromTyrol

This movie yesterday caught me with my emoritonal guards down. I stopod in all that beuaty that spanned out before my eyes, and could ntio beleive it and also relfetc about this modenr tehcnological mircale I currntl ywas expeirncien - that these thigns are possibel that we cna do such things. When i took off the mask after the film, I had tears in my eyes, emotional secuirity valves had opened up. Beauty can be overwhelming when it comes at this size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9z8-QAEA_o

[Skybird]

Cybrix is a mixture of the old Arkanoid, and Squasch, set in a Tron-like environment. As simple as the recipe and ingredients are, as addictive is the gameplay. Somehow I just have a soft spot for these racket-hits-ball things, as a young, when time allowed, I often went into the Wilmersdorfer Park in Westberlin, they had these slightly curved squash walls there, where you hit the balls high and they came back flat, and if you played them low, they came back higher. I hit tennis balls there endlessly, to the point of complete exhaustion, and when it went well, it was pure meditation, I could never get enough of it. That has not changed until today! I just love this kind of stuff. This game now is at first glance underwhelming, but so where the firts levels of Arkanoid, too, but the game adds more and more challenge and raffinesse the later the levels are that you qualify for. Also, the brickwall appears closer and closer, so your reaction time gets shorter, too. At first I found the paddle physics irritatingl, until I realised they were not totally physics-related, but copy the style in which the paddle in Arkanoid behaved.

Addictive! Simple idea, very well executed. Racket NX falls into this category, too, but is the game I like better, but that does not mean Cybrix is not good. It is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdnBMRBzcQ


And I had a wonderful tennis match with some gentleman from Canada last night, a bit older he was, though not as old as me, and he knew some playing tactics and was in general well off. It seemed we belonged both to the minority of oniline players who prefer the simulation to the arcade mode, it seems, and that is what adds so much variety to the ball exchanges. Its such a brilliant game (First Person Tennis), its surreal. Any VR headset owner not at least trying this, cannot be helped. Very good experience, very good ballgaming.

[Skybird]

I found another sports sim of the "take a racket and beat the crap out of that ball" sort of game, its simulating picket ball which is said to be the fastest grpowing sprts in the US. I can understand why, it was new to me. The graohcis of that game are simple, but effective. It cna be played 1-1 and 2-2, with a valaible number of players repalced with AI bots, which is needed since the player lobby is practically always empty. What I like in that agme is that the ball is so slow and drops so easily, neverthgeless you need good reflexes. But the tactics and speed does not overwhelm you like it might be the case with other VR sports games sometimes, especially the workout titles often have the commands flying at hilarious speeds at you. Real ickleball palyers teasdted the game and the oahsics are claime dot be relaistic. There are a rnage of quite well doen training options, some of which include Passthrough option for the Quest 3.

It does not look like much due to the playful graphcis, and cartoonish colours - but it has plenty of raffinesse under the hood. I will play this a lot.



I just learned that a Racketball sim also is in the making, a different studio and different looks. Probably an instant buy on day one, as far as I am concerned. :D


BTW, I have serious muscle soreness and an overstretched ankle after one week of 3-4 hours of sports gaming every day in the past week. Tomorrow I will force myself to take a break from sports games, though I am totally addicted. Give me a racket and a ball and I'll go crazy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr9gctlJZEs


Again, do not judge this title by its cartoonish colour and graphics, the gameplay is very good imo, and 2-2 with the AI really tests my reflexes and forces me to make absurd contortions. :D 2-2 often leads to hectic frenzies.


I showed the new headset to my parents yesterday. My Mum totally flipped out and most urgently wants one for herself. Its ordered. And both my parents made one comment that should be interesting for those of you sufferign from Vr induced nausea and dizziness: my parents both were very prone to that in my earlier two headsets. But not in this one. Nothing. Rien. Nada. Nix. My Mum especially would have loved to play hours beyond the batterylife, without any symptoms of mentioned nausea.

[mapuc]

I watched the video and Amiga 500 came up in my mind.

If this is what VR can present as up to date graphic. It has a long way.

Or is it the game itself who has this low graphic ?

Markus

[Skybird]

I watched the video and Amiga 500 came up in my mind.

If this is what VR can present as up to date graphic. It has a long way.

Or is it the game itself who has this low graphic ?

Markus
Its the game, I warned twice of judging this game by its cartoonish graphics. The gameplay is where it counts. Like tennis on a smaller court, with balls that are heavy and do not jump easily, you can smash them and they will not go to warp speed like a tennis ball would. Thats why this is well suited to be played in the limited space of your room.

I said it twice, do not judge this game by its cartoonish look.


The Quest 3 can produce extremely good looking graphics. But not en par with a pc with a 3080 gfx card.


Eleven, First Person Tennis, Racket NX I also have on PC. They look the same on the Q3.

[Skybird]

I am in danger of getting overjoyed. :)

Had a couple of online tennis matches with friendly, good players, no troublemakers, and although I still need to get back into the game and made too many easy mistakes (same mistakes I made in real tennis over 35 years ago...), they did not lose patience. One match however went extremely well, with long exchanges. There is a very active lobby, its a constant come-and-go, though late in the night in Germany most players come from the Americas and the pings sometimes show it. One has to watch out for whether the host has set it up as Arcade or Simulation, I prefer the latter.

A simple golf-grip arrived yesterday, its a doubled item, the ministicks where the controllers get inserted, can be screwed together, you then have either a kayak paddle with two blades, or a sexy jedi sword with two lasers, something like that. Or you just add the extension of the one to the stick and controller-holder of the other, then you have a nice two-handed sword - or a simple golf club. I did not expect that it would make such a difference in Golf+, my strokes and especially my drives reach farther and have much more precision, do not fade like crazy. Walkabout Minigolf also works much better than with controller alone, it all feels just much more natural.


I also found the apparently first table tennis grip that can hold the Quest 3 controller, needless to say that was an instant buy, I craved for something like that. I also ordered a "pistol" grip, which allows to add weight by using ordinary coins that get put into the pistol run until you got the weight you want. Should add much more precision to my shooting if putting some weight to the virtual weapon.


Whats more, I got totally addicted to Pickleball, no wonder they say this sports is the fastest growing sports game in America currently (real world sports i mean), and it is ideal for VR - you can and must hit very powerful, and still the ball does not go as fast as in tennis and does not fly as far, and the playing area is much smaller, fitting better into a living room. I did my first two-on-two yesterday evening, against three bots, the resulting action and quickfire dramas at the kitchen (near the net) were hilarious, the sim is very convincing, is extreme fun, and will get your cardiovascular system working. I again say: do not get misled by the cartoonish graphics, that means nothing! We have a hidden gem here.

If you do not know what pickleball is (which is likely if you are not US American), here is some from the real world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRRy0kpiP0s

This is an object that is ideal for being simulated in VR.

[Skybird]

This news is no longer really new, but I missed it. Knowing the game since years and playing it with enthusiasm, I know it quite well and have no objections on this decision. The sports level seen here I would rate as a low intensity cardio workout that needs good awareness, decent reflexes and some solid eye-hand coordination, not having exaggerated demands. And it it AWESOME fun. Thats why I have already mentioned it repeatedly. It was one fo the very first titles I bought without hesitation a second time for the Quest 3 (after Steam some years ago).

German VR website "Mixed.de" writes: In the cybersports game Racket: NX, players use a virtual racket to fire a futuristic squash ball at the walls of a 360-degree arena. The game is now recognized as an official sport - and even wants to become an Olympic sport.

The environment in Racket:Nx may be virtual, but the sweat is quite real: The VR squash is quite strenuous, just like real squash - and a bit more: Because instead of just chasing the ball against a flat wall in front of you, you have to keep it in play in a circular arena and aim quite accurately at the same time, as different plates on the wall trigger different actions or bring points. Racket:Nx supports single and multiplayer modes.

Now development studio One Hamsa announces that the International Racquetball Federation (IRF) has recognized Racket:Nx as an official sports discipline. This recognition is valid from April 1, 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwB-YgPXAc

Mind you, when he mentions a few quirks: he is tlakign about the version for Quest 1. On my Q3 I saw no issues at all.

[Skybird]

Why has it never come to my mind earlier to check what there is in VR regarding submarines? Well, there is Iron Wolf, since five or six years, and there is the upcoming UBoat: The Silent Wolf VR:


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+silent+wolf+vr




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZick_w77I4

[Skybird]

I got seriously into Golf+, I love it, and I bought several of the real courses, which are better than the three included fantasy ones. I play it excessively (and occasionally with my Mum Walkabout Minigolf, which is what she loves).

This latest buy illustrates how serious I am about Golf now :D The weight matches, even exceeds that of a real golf club, more on that later. The illusion of swinging real is perfect. Precision and drive both see huge benefits.

https://i.postimg.cc/0j3s8jDs/20231103-155907.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Cnjt7FcP)


https://i.postimg.cc/9MMKrVWF/20231103-155953.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rdBQPB0v)


FYI, with ciontroller the weight is around 580-590gr, which is a bit more than many gold irons and woods would weigh, without controlelr the weight is around 460gr. You can experiment with moving the controller a bit upwards on the shaft. But one thing should be clear: this thing doesn ot feel like a toy, neither by weight nor by swing nor the texture of the grip. You can get completely immersed in the illusion... The higher total weight must be known to the producer, and he did not chnage it. I think he is right, he did that to compensate for the shorter length of the shaft, which has a negative effetc on the speed by which the head is moving when you swing with power. So, its no letdown by them, I think its intentional - and clever. Golf+ also allows in-game adaptation to various such devices, to compensate for the differences to real life that way and preventing unrealistic driving distances.


After three decades this is my first computer golf simulation that indeed feels like the real thing. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcn2qofVGB8


A table tennis "racket" (trowel?) and a pistol that allows to add weight to it in form of coins, gaining precision and stabilization, are on their ways, international shipping from the US and from sweden. Meanwhile I commit my shooting needs with this:
https://i.postimg.cc/P5YrXgyw/20231103-124501.jpg (https://postimg.cc/zyD1pP9z)


And I thought the Quest would be a testing devic eonly for my Mum, would be a secondary junior-grade item to the PC-linked Q2. Oh boy, it has completely taken over instead. I do a lot of VR sports, in parts via Virtual Desktop from PC, which is completely uncomplicated. Only my racing sims do not work that way, Virtual desktop, VR and the sim together would bring the machine to its knees, and directly linking the Quest via cable works as good as via Airlink: not at all.

Much money was spend on all this. But for me it was worth it.

[Skybird]

Now let the tiny little white balls fly to me!

https://i.postimg.cc/tCTZ92ft/20231104-211707.jpg (https://postimg.cc/kD0XcF7B)

Table tennis adapter by SolidSlime.
Already played three test matches in Eleven. Great feeling in the hand. I will add leather to the grip.

This video is a comparison of the Quest 2, Pro and 3. I must say the little money you can save by going with the 2 is not really worth it, better go all the way and choose the 3, you get much more processing power, battery life and image quality. The passthrough is a lightyear ahead.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pzBseF6DRM

[Skybird]

This is almost a most personal, most intimate confession.

In the Quest, there is an app named TV, its something like youtube, but features exclusively stereoscopic 3D movies in 360° and 180°. Usually 360°/180° video means 360°/180° in 2D, but this is stereoscopic at all directions. And the film I watched was 18 minutes, title was "The ISS experience. Spacewalk extended." There are two or three 360° videos "The ISS Experience", one for example from the stereoscopic cockpit of a T-38 Talon trainer jet of Nasa. But the one I mean was "Spacewalk extended." I ran into this unsuspicous, and unprepared. Which was a great gift.

What should I say. I had to break three times, wiping the tears out of my eyes. It was an emotionally most overwhelming experience. I had not expected that. The huge, complex structure of the station around me, its a labyrinth of substructures. The Earth, sometimes emerging from pitchblack, sometimes sliding back into it, the blue and white racing beneath me. The stark contrast between black shadows and white-like sunlight, so very different from shadows we are used to from living on the surface and in the atmosphere of planet Earth. Its one thing to see it in TV, or to read about it, to hear an astronaut talkign about it. Its a totally different thing to be there, to be immersed in it, all angles, all directions. The astronauts doing work on the structure. Man, you cannot imagine how huge this structure is, if you have not seen it the way I just have seen it, you just cannot imagine it. I was completely overwhelmed by the beauty of Earth, and the unbelievable fact that humans are able to build something like this structure, and in space. It kicked me into complete overload. Emotional security valves opened, thats why the tears, else I would have imploded.

It was spiritual. Something in this experience has anchored something inside me, changed something.

For heavens sake, if you have the opportunity to watch this in VR, then just do it. And do not watch it before, in 2D-360°, on a screen. Allow to meet this first in full stereoscopic true 360° 3D.

I tell you, this was intense. Very.

What a miracle all this is. Life. Earth. ISS. VR. Evertyhing. Its unbelievable, surreal.

[em2nought]

There was a commercial version of the Joyrider on facebook marketplace. If I wasn't trying to seriously down size I might have bought it. :D

[Skybird]

I am having a blast golfing away like a maniac in Golf+. That golf club grip I use makes all the difference.


While I do that, Meta hasn't been lazy either and mulls this update:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ymIchKMBDs

[Skybird]

This will bring Subsim General Topics debates to a completely new level! :D :har:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKUgxnuUtmk


Trade blows, not arguments. :D

[Skybird]

I love this Golf+, they just annoucned another 14 new courses in 2024. Whether one needs to have them all is something different. I play 36-45 holes per day, but althoiugh I understood why the ball curves left and right when you drive it down the fairway, I struggle to correct those massive effets I add to it, unwantedfly. Its very difficult to strike correctly, I found , I play every 18 holes match with 40-55 over par. :o I also struggle to get the range form the drives, I hardly bring it over 220 yards.



Its a wonderful simulation, so easy and accessi ble to play and handle in mehjus and options and manouvering on the greens, but very difficult to master. I would never have thought that I would ever dive this deep into Golf. The golf club adapter I use makes the all decisive difference. It feels as if you play the rela game.


The courses also have their tpyiucla and unique atmospheres and styles, I just love it, with Sawgrass (very difficult, but beautiful), Yale, Olympia Fields, Southwind, Pebble Beach being my favourites. Currently 15 courses are avaialble, add the new 14 next year.


Very, very recommended - with a golf adapter. What Eleven is for Table Tennis, G+ is for Golf.

[Skybird]

A new version of SolidSlime'S table tennis adapter has been released. Some pro players said the old one had - under special cirucmstances - tracking issues, but their needs are way higher than my low amateur orbit, I did not notice it. I am very happy with my version 1 of it.

Its also cheap, in price, not in quality.

https://i0.wp.com/solidslime.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/IMG_20231111_153552-min-scaled.jpg?fit=1920%2C2560&ssl=1https://solidslime.net/product/solidslime-adapter-for-eleven-table-tennis-on-meta-quest-3/?v=f06f4be9cc54

[Skybird]

What I have not expected is that my mother, 75 years, is so crazy about VR and especially Golf+. We have repeatedly spend 2-3 hours online now, playing on a golf course, or playing Minigolf in Walkabout Minigolf. She's getting crazy about both, she absolutely loves it, wants to get a gof club adapter, too. She trains her swings and drives - daily. She needs a lot of practice, and competitive her golf play is not - but she absolutely loves it, and so we can meet and chat online easily and spend some time, with plenty of laughing. Great setup! It was terribly grea and wet and trist today - but we both escped the lousy mood outside by spending time on a cozy round at Olympia Fields at late afternoon.

She played 42 over par. :haha: But that is not relevant. The good vibes and the plenty of laughter were what counts.

External powerbank use recommended.

[em2nought]

What I have not expected is that my mother, 75 years, is so crazy about VR and especially Golf+. We have repeatedly spend 2-3 hours online now, playing on a golf course, or playing Minigolf in Walkabout Minigolf. She's getting crazy about both, she absolutely loves it, wants to get a gof club adapter, too. She trains her swings and drives - daily. She needs a lot of practice, and competitive her golf play is not - but she absolutely loves it, and so we can meet and chat online easily and spend some time, with plenty of laughing. Great setup! It was terribly grea and wet and trist today - but we both escped the lousy mood outside by spending time on a cozy round at Olympia Fields at late afternoon.

She played 42 over par. :haha: But that is not relevant. The good vibes and the plenty of laughter were what counts.

External powerbank use recommended.

It's great that you can play with your mom. It's probably really good for her in many ways too! :yeah:

[Skybird]

Yes, and that although all her life she hated playing sport and board games, except featherball.

[em2nought]

Yes, and that although all her life she hated playing sport and board games, except featherball.

I suspected featherball to be badminton, but I had to look it up. :D

[Skybird]

"Betterknower...!" :D

[Skybird]

Today I played my first round of 18 in under 100 strokes. :D :yeah: :har:

How completely I have underestimated Golf. Never expected the complexity in it. I am totally addicted now and 18, 27 or 36 holes every day.

I appreciate that the courses look and feel qwuite differently, have different vibes and mood and atmosphere, i enjoy that ver ymuch, but you really have to buy some of the pro courses, the three fa nasy courses they incldued are not good and just prive a very rudimetary surrouding. I bought also Kiwalah and found it to play inbcredobly otugh, while my lastest addition today was East Lake and played very relaxed and "kind". I left out 4 or 5 courses which by the videos and looks to me looked a bit too monotonous. I had bought Pinehurst No.2 and found it to be very boring, every fairway looks like any other, and there is no change in the landscape, so I learned to look closer when considering a new course. 14 more courses they want to release over the coming year.

Golf+ is a must have in VR, me thinks. And real golfers say its extremely realistic.

-----------------------------------

I also already smashed the equipment once, I forgot to re-center several times, and then struck the leg of my working table with full force (1st drive...). The club adapter however is made of carbon and glass fibre (its about weight distribution and swing feeling of mimicking a real club, it has a weight at the tip of the adapter while the club is made as light as was possible). The stick did not even get a scratch although I must have struck with 60, 70 km/h, but the controller left the arrestor seat, the safety line ripped off and the device smacked against the wall at still 40 or 50 km/h I would estimate. And you know what? It did not break, it still works, all buttons and the ministicks work, the accelerometer also did not suffer, apparently. Maybe over months and years he longevity now is reduced, I dont know, but its some days ago and the thing so far still works as advertised. Wowh! Show me a pocket calculator that survices if you smack it with full power against a solid wall.

--------------------

And this "brand story". It seems they have a name for everything these days...

https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/sponsored/meta-quest-3/article248536232/ANZEIGE-Meta-Quest-3-Wie-Virtual-Reality-den-Profi-Sport-veraendert.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[em2nought]

VR bird simulator :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLHIusLWOc

They use San Francisco as their map, I wonder what smell you get when you fly over the sidewalk? LOL

[Skybird]

^ I have heard of somethign like this years ago, but never saw one. :)

[ET2SN]

I had bought Pinehurst No.2 and found it to be very boring

You're supposed to be drinking gin and tonics.. :nope::smug:

That just sounds like an excuse for not closing that Consultant deal.

[Skybird]

So that I smack the table again...? :doh:

[Skybird]

Just came back from the doc. My back is hurting, really badly, whole night long and yesterday aleready, muscles feel like a razorblade put inside between the fibres, and when move arms and neck in a certain style, or bend and bow my torso. The doc asked if I practiced golf in the hall, maybe? I said: "Sie Scherzkeks!" I said so and so, virtual golf and all that. He stared at me and said: "Selber Scherzkeks!"

Well, its official by his diagnosis, I played virtual golf and now suffered some muscle strain problem typically found in real golfers wo went beyond that certain limit a bit. Stems from that powerful and fast body rotation when driving the ball.

No golf for one week at least, he said, possibly longer. Dieser Scherzkeks...! I dont find this funny.

[Jeff-Groves]

Were you trying the Happy Gilmore golf swing?
:o

[em2nought]

Well, its official by his diagnosis, I played virtual golf and now suffered some muscle strain problem typically found in real golfers wo went beyond that certain limit a bit. Stems from that powerful and fast body rotation when driving the ball.


Better warn your mom not to overdue it. :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

You should try a safer hobby.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=13378

[Catfish]

^ :rotfl2:

Sorry Marc :oops:
:03:

[Skybird]

Were you trying the Happy Gilmore golf swing?
:o
I did practice just any swing - too many, too hard. I find it difficult to eat distance without mainly spiraling a slice to the right, sometiomes a draw to the left if I do over-correct. Its - tricky, I understood the theory how to stand and move your hip and grab the club and when to hit and so on - putting all that into action while going all power in, that is beyond theory a bit... The longest golf shot ever was done by a former baseball player, name is Dobbyn. He drove the ball to a fabulous range of 551 yards, that is 504 meters. :o You can run, but you cant hide...

Isnt it amazing that something like this, simulated, can match the real thing this far-reaching? Just using a controller wouldnt allow that, you need one of these top class adapters.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pPJDut0hnlU?feature=share

[Jeff-Groves]

My Son has a Golf simulator in his garage.
It has a big screen that he drives real golf balls into and a scanner setup that does the math and all that stuff. So he's useing his actual clubs and such.
:o

[Skybird]

My Son has a Golf simulator in his garage.
It has a big screen that he drives real golf balls into and a scanner setup that does the math and all that stuff. So he's useing his actual clubs and such.
:o
Nice. My advantage is I see it all stereoscopical, and its a cheaper, more affordable setup, I assume. His advantage is he can feel tbe small weight differences between those 14 golf clubs, while my all weigh the same, around 580gr, a small bit more than the heaviest real one.

[em2nought]

I took such a hard swing and miss at a softball once in high school that I had to go to the chiropractor. :D

[Skybird]

The title is 6 years and was mentioned before repeatedly, the video is 2 years. Still stunning views. Costs zero coins.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0aslbk97f8&t=51s

[Skybird]

No, its not just simple ping pong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUf7FPa_FwA&t=95s

[Skybird]

30 minutes video on UBoat - The Silent Wolf VR.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2894378&postcount=7

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivO7WCR3xEc


The creators of the superb Eleven Table Tennis VR are doing a Picketball sim. Wowh! If it has the same quality like Eleven, this one will become a turbo-charged burner.

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyvmjl6MN8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi1p2OaeILo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuB2PQt3a3k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLVI4T9OL4&t=139s

[Skybird]

I'm looking forward to this one as well. Q1-24 for full release.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2aU97f2BTU

[Skybird]

I spend the past hours (!) playing the just released Racket Club VR, and I must say its a blast. We have a winner here, a new entry into the hall of must have games in VR.



Designed from start with VR on mind, the sport's idea every detail is designed and the whole game idea developed with VR in mind, and that means: VR not in a huge open backyard but a more or less ordinary, maybe even crowded space inside your household. Its best described as a mixture between Racketball and Pickleball, allows single- and multiplayer, has tutorials and training lessons, is on Quest, Pico 4 and Steam VR, and superb, outstanding and superbelievable physics and feel. Its a stylish package from A to Z , evertyhign is well thpght out and well executed in realization. The flow of the game is a blast, starts slow and very sensible, but can - at levels I am not even close to reach soon - can become a real fast paced smashing duel. The sensitivity that the physics, the feel and the racket allow you to use and experience, is outstanding. Passthrough is availabe on Quest 3.


Usuallyits best-.of-three to win, wioth 11 poiunts per set. But if a running ball stays in the agme for long, the winner of that run will score not just 1, but 2, 3, 4 or 5 points, depending on the length of that exchange. The longer the runnign exchnage goes, the higher the stakes!


Very, very recommended! I rank this in the same group of elite sports titles like Eleven and Golf+. I forsee that I will use this almost daily for long time to come.



For social guys and gals, the multiplayer allows you to have 20 players on various courts simultaneously inside a virtual "tennis club", and you can just be there and watch the matches live, looking around. The social aspect I read has been a major design idea from beginning on. So if this is social thing is attractive to you, this title must be your cup of tea.



Customer feedback of this first day and firts video reviews are most excellent, outstanding.



One word of cautrion, if chekcing videos on this, do not get fooled by most showing slow, almost time.delayed exchanges. Like in real world pickleball you have phases where things are just like that, they are the opening for the furious and fast paced action that just a few seconds later may get unleashed - if you have the ability and skill to survive that! As a newbie I am unable for that level of competition. I hope to improve - drastically! So, one detial I find especially attractrive is thet constant change between slow, sensible ballplay, and the furious trading of smashing balls like photon torpedoes.



:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:


In passthrough/mixed reality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Yj9tdJWOc&t=31s





https://www.resolutiongames.com/racketclub

[Skybird]

The girl is a bit hyperactive in her presentation style, but she includes good picture material to illustrate the game and describes all the aspects and details well. I played that almost three consecutive hours this afternoon, half of that time in multiplayer. Racket Club is a frickin awesome thing, and its addictive!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUIkXTCt0io

[Skybird]

I just played another 90 minutes in multiplayer, singles and doubles, this Racket Club VR game is hilarious fun and a mild cardiac workout that works not by superheavy exercise, but duration. I went sweating twice today, to an extent that I had to take a shower, twice. Really, big time FUN, in big bold letters. The multiplayer lobbies work very well, still not too m,ny lobbies are filled, but many are available, and joining is - well, you do not even realise you join, you walk around, meet avatars, gestures and spoken language make the date, and then you walk with your new found sports partner(s) to a free court and start playing. Like in real life. Totally uncomplicated.

Fantastic gameplay, physics are wonderful.

I really hope that the game makes the round and the lobbies do not stay that empty for the most, as currently. The game also is league and competition friendly, and offers cross platform compatability for Quest 3, Pico 4 and PC Steam VR. A playing area of minimum 2x2m is recommended, smaller only when mixed reality/passthrough is available.


In my book this is one if the really big titles of 2023. At least in VR.

[Skybird]

Earlier this morning I played 40 minutes with an older gentleman from Mexico, 59 years (I'm getting 57 in a few weeks). He spoke Spanish (it seems I always stumble over Spanish or French speaking people...) and only a bit English. We truly enjoyed our session tremendously, played, had a little chatter or laughter, played more, told a joke, then were invited by two Frenchman watchign fromt he sideline of the court for a double, walked our avatars to a double court, played, when they Frenchies left again (they were much younger men but again very friendly), we walked back to a single court. On one opportunity I overhard the chatter form the neighbourign court where a newbie showed up and said thta this wa shis very first match ever, the peopel there immedioately took him by th ehand and led him into the rulkes and gamepaly instead of rudely telling RTFM, and invited him into a double, with great latience. I noticed this yesterday and the day before as well, the friendly, polite community. I never would have imagined that I would enjoy an online game community this much (I am used to much worse things from online racing on public servers...), I have so far not met a single yelling kid, and players of all ages from early 20s to - judging by voice - my age and older. The way the lobbies are presented like a regular club outdoor perimeter is genious. I have so far not experienced lags like some players complain about.

My backbone hurts. Getting a pain killer and then back onto the court. :) Not wise. But fun.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQLCB-7cIOM

[Skybird]

Thought I post some trailers about some of the courses in Golf+. The new Hawai court, Kapalua, and the seocnd on Hawai already, is wonderful to view at and very interesting to play, up and down and often into the blind space, and some extreme elevations and surface breaks going on there. I played just 8 over par for all 18 holes, that is my best result on all cpourts I own ever, usually I score it a success already if I stay below +20, and must try hard to not exceed +30...

Kapalua Golf Plantation Course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pv248UCtNA

Olympia Fields Country Club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY2v9fGkQFE

TPC Southwind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5z5x-lYfgQ

Yale Golf Course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9na4WKxJTo

TPC Sawgrass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5F5Rg5iXcc

Pebble Beach Golf Links
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P3tVIZLphc

Pinehurst No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QF65CM5eT0

The Old Course at St. Andrews Links
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YkmCCo9OvI

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBleCd12yQ


I must say that in this game the gameflow and playing experience is even better in 2v2 instead of just 1v1. I am about the gameplay itself, not the social aspect, which however also adds to the overall impression of spending quality time when playing this. The lobbies are never crowded and full, but there seem to be almost always some people around. It depends to how youre choosen time of the day compares to the the international time zones and their activity cycles. I so far had only positive experiences, and that means something, usually I avoid online playing and am not interested in doing so at all. But in RC, I am VERY interested in playing with three humans a 2v2. Yesterday I had an opponent who excelled in real world badminton, and he fired the balls like photon torpedoes, whipped them over the "net", I cant do that. But I now really got damn good in playing slow spin balls, and simply reacting, saving balls that are "unsavable" - the ball exchanges therefore could not have been any more different and crazy at times!



The avatars are misleading, they just stand still, and distort a lot, therefore, but in fact you move around a very lot, jumping into a new position all the time, dive to the deck to save that impossible ball. The video in this regard is misleading. Some critics said, by watching videos, its a "standing simuator". No, its not. And after half an hour or so I do a break, washing the sweat off my face and cool down a bit again.


Just as a reminder, this is Quest 2, 3, Pro, Pico 4 and - PC. It seesm to be most popular amongst Quest 3 players, however, due to the mixed reality aspect that really works very well (in this game, and many others).

[Skybird]

I play Golf+ again since a few days, but a bit more carefully. I absolutely love the new course, Kapalua on mHawai, which is a beauty to see, and a stunning rollercoaster challenge at times, both making it my probbaly faovurite course so far.

I found the break was good for me, my play has slightly but noticably improved "all by itself" :) , I do not pull with all power anymore, let the driver's head do more of the work, that way I avoid more of the much feared right leaning "spirals" and have more control over the ball. My big fear now are the wedges with plenty of loft, sand wedge and lob wedge, I get the direction right, but the distances I shoot is all across the place. I know the theory of the correct technique and cna feel already during the swing when the shot will be good or not, but somehow it still is beyond my intended control, this "hitting the ball while the dirver still goes down" and "hit the sand before the blal, not the ball" sounds all nice and well - when wanting to implement that advice however, I realise in all brutality how different theory and practice are. :D I have no doub t, however, that the fault lies in me, not in the simulation.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPON1znet7Q

[em2nought]

Looking at the videos of Racket Club reminds me a bit of playing Jokari which I quite enjoyed in my early teens.
https://donaldsauter.com/jokari.htm

https://donaldsauter.com/jokari-block-rubber.jpg

http://jokariinfo.net/sale.htm

[Skybird]

Eh... hmmm... nööö... :03:

Better comparison really is to paddleball in a smaller cage, or picketball with cage. The way some people smash the ball reminds a lot of badnkinton., too, and I indeed played repeatedly against players who said in the real world they play badminton.

Mind you of what I said on the avatrs, they are static in th vidoes, but the player is nto static, his legs just are not tracked in VR. The real playing ground is around 2x2 to 2.5x2.5m, and inside this cage you jump around and position yourself and dive the deck a very lot - becasue you must... Videos showing the avatars are very misleading.

I am severely sweating after half an hour or so and then must take a break because the lenses get foggy. I wear a terry cloth headstrap under the mask, covering eyebrows and forehead, and have a ventilator in front of me, at full power.


I am addicted to this. I play it exessively.

[Skybird]

The very excellent video and media player Skybox VR got updated and now - finally, after all these many years - can play youtube videos, both on PC's and Quest's Skybox.



FINALLY!! :yeah:


My to-go-to program again now for watching youtube in a wonderful cinema environment with controllable room lights and no-hassle-no-problems-setup, playing all formats, not just youtube. But YT was missing. It replaces Youtube's terrible own app on Quest easily, its handling is quite messy.

[Skybird]

Playing on the Quest to me mostly is in active, sports-like titles like table tennis and racket, however I got early a title that after the buying for some reason dropped off my radar screen completely and which I just now, after 8 weeks, have discovered in full - after I remembered that I got it. :D Demeo.

Now, Demeo brings back the glory of good old tabletop dungeon crawlers. As such, is it very difficult (all tabletop dungeon crawlers are, they say...) and plenty of experience with the game mechanics is needed to stand a chance to survive it. Interestingly, it is by the same publishing company that has given us Racket Club VR, which i appreciated very much, as you may have noticed. :D And Demeo shines with the same outstanding technical excellence. It also illustrates the best of what mixed reality can give you in VR, allowing the playfield being projected into your living room, and, when sitting comfortably on a couch or whereever, tilting the playing area at many angles for more convenient viewing, zooming it, zooming yourself INTO the dungeon, rotating it, all done with a breeze. The technical implementation is outstanding and must be seen to understand what VR offers when the potential is competently made use of.

On the game's content I let the video speak. You either like the principle, or you don't, but if you played tabletops and dungeon crawlers in your youth days, you will love this one, its a dream coming true. But again: its tough, and for players new to this sort of games who never played D&D and the likes, it might be frustrating in the beginning, thinking of the game mechanics as unfair. Well, they are simple in structure but difficult to master in the consequences they are meant to create, while just handling the game and playfield is as easy as it can get, and you can get better with experience of how to best use the features and first learning how to use what combat style best and what the cards are about and how to make best use of them. It is all about experience with the game mechanics. Difficult? Absolutely. But it can get learned. And its not incompetent game design creating the difficultly - understand this, please.

Breathtaking technical implementation. Animated tabletop figurines, that show delicate detail if you just zoom in close. So, see this indeed as a boardgame brought into VR, not as a 1st person RPG. As long as you have no aversion to dungeon crawlers, this game is a must have in VR, and a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate to your friends your brandnew VR headset. You may stick with the game's inbuild hobby room where the playing table is set up or you have the virtual table projected into your live living room, where it will all by itself find itself an ideal place, may it be the table in the room, or the carpet, the top of the cupboard... Or it is in a free spot in your room, and you and your multiplayer friends walk around it like around a real table (you also see their avatars) , forging your plans for your next battlemoves and disucssing your next moves (cooperation of the characters is of utmost importance) Impressive, and on a sidenote: enabled by clever use of AI analysis of the camera's input. All this makes Demeo visually very, very impressive, and one of the most highly rated games by players in VR so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHrYoExjpcA

P.S. The video is on an earlier verision fo the game after relase,. Meanwhile the party size has been increased from 3 to 4, and there are 4 more character classes. Each of therse command a very difcferent apporoach to how to play the game if wanting to survirve. The game is very well playable in single player as I do, but must be a blast for those preferring to play with 2-4 live friends in multiplayer.

And this one is just one exmaple fo the many helful tutorials of whgicb there are amny, for exmaple on each of the 8 character classes and how to make best use of their individual features .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cs9khr7M30


Edit:
Very relevant is that the only real point of criticism, the need to play all three levels of oen chapter in one row, not beign able to save inbetween and thus needing to invest 2-3 hours in a row, have been cured finally by the latest patch. You can now save the game and leave any time you want, returning to it later. I now remember that this was what stopped me form going into Demo earlier.



Also, a new game of the frnahcise has been just released, called Demeo Battles. In Demeo, its always cooperative game mode and one floor can cost you one hour of playing time a d every chapter has three floors to mop with monsters, in Demeo Battles you can play competeti8tvely in deadly 1v1 and 2v2 (or AI bots), the rounds, so I read, last around 20 minutes, and the playing area shrinks due to "the Burn", lava for example eating up the outer rims of the playing area and thus forcing the characters mercilessly into the centre to meet the final ultimate fight with the others. It added the save-anytime-feature that after release then got patched into the original Demeo as well.



P.P.S.
I would like to see this game principle and its technical implementation being used on some real world tac ops SWAT game or special-commandos-house-clearing game.

[Skybird]

Chess.

[long silence]

Got a chess app, finally, in VR, which is not the shabbiest, actually the interface is really nice. On Quest 3, you do not even need the controllers, can play with your bare hands, and, which made me smile and really liking it - you have a chess clock that you have to manually hit the button, like in the real world.

The visual quality is not fully up to the Quest 3's resolution, but they might change that in a future update. However, it looks good, the figurines however could need more detailed textures, and also shadows to add better depth percepetion - but dont get me wrong, two of the four boards really work very good, are not causing you eye cancer. Originally it was released in 2021 with just two room themes, meanwhile two more have been added. I found the lobby of this mansion and the park scene very enjoyable and immersive.

The AI is not perfect and certainly not the big bad bully of the block, but I have seen mostly much worse engines in these kind of chess apps that do not want to be dedicated chess engines for the semi-pro and pro market. If you are a beginner, amateur, have no special high demands, the AI will possibyl suffice you, though it is far from playing perfect uber chess form outer space - but again, I assume for many occasional fun players it might be good enough, i saw it doing some unexpected moves that were quite unconventional, but also one or two big errors, that maybe were owed to the fact I did not play at the highest setting.

Not many online players, maybe owned to the fact that two years ago they had technical problems with online that a patch has solved since then, but you know: spoil the reputation of a title on launch date, and the memory of it will be engraved in mankind's memory forever. However, this app might be ideal if you want to "target-play" with a marked certain friend from real life. You can chat, can handle the game and pieces most naturally without holding controllers and only your bare fingers, and even have a nice ambience and a chess-clock to slam your angry fist on.

I like it! If looking for a natural playing experience for chess especially on the Quest 3, this one is for you. Especially since there is only one - much, much, much worse and apparently unfinished - alternative in the Questverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC4CLiUPlRY


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVsmKXkmSgo

[Skybird]

Demeo Master Class: the Top Gun course for this dungeon crawler: 7 videos that describe and explain each of the seven characters, so that you get an idea what their strengths and weaknesses are, their typical combat cards, possible combos, and how to play them to get best benefit from their participation in the fight. Very good videos. Also gives you a good idea what the game as a whole is about. Its more chess than a game of luck and random chance. I currently play it excessively, its highly addictive.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cs9khr7M30&list=PL1WVzePa9UdFSYGkirDrQoZ-WekERtE8G

[Skybird]

The outstanding and excellent Eleven Table Tennis since today has cross platform/synchronization compatability for PC and Quest. It has a long time coming. Huge update.

This is relevant, since Eleven has an active online community. And some, quite many people are insanely good. Many real world players go to Eleven. No squirrels though. Its not the right sports for squirrels.

[em2nought]

My sister plays in a tennis league in a desperately hot southern city so I tried to get her to go watch some of VR Racket Club on YouTube, but she was NOT having it. She worked her whole life on a PC so putting on one of those headsets is not something she wants to do I guess. She did have fond memories of us playing Jokari way back when though. :salute:

[Skybird]

Once the Borg have taken over ,wearing those googles will not be a problem anymore. ;)

-----------------

"Pickelball One" has seen an update that altered the physics significantly, making the ball feel more alive, reflecting easier from the paddle and ground. Before, it felt like a piece of hard plastic dropping to the floor and not wantign to jump up again, and I thought it were like that in real life (I never had a pickleball in my hand and do not know how it feels to strike it with those paddles they use), it now reminds more - but not exactly - like a mix of squash and tennis with a dripping wet ball, and I like it more now. It also is more in line with the other upcoming Pickleball simulation that the creators of Eleven currently build and which I bought in deep trust as Early Access, having no AI currently (comes this quarter), only a demo to assess their ball physics. I think both games are on their way to deliver a delightful ball physics experience, what maybe will differentiate them is their AI, Pickleball One has room for improvements, although already now it is quite enjoyable - but not full representative for the spectacular exchanges you can see in the real sport. Maybe they have it in multiplayer, so far I havent dared to test that.

Some really good sport games on offer already, lots and lots of solid fun! :yeah:

[Skybird]

I just found Ocean Rift, and it makes mindblowing use of Mixed Reality. The video says it all. You can also experience all tanks and environment without the safety of your home's walls around you, but I admit that some stuff, the dark, the deep, the Big White stuff, were a bit claustrophobic and made me felt exposed beyond what I would feel comfortable with.



One may think a passive "demo" where oyu cna just swiom aorund or even just watch through the window like this is not worth the money, but the price is 10 coins and in sales even less, and I must say to me it was absolutely worth it, it is a real excellent experience. Different to two or three other relaxation VR experiences of this kind that i had over the past 5, 6 years (I never mentioned them for a reason) , this one will stay, and I intend to go back to it frequently.



Superb for demonstrating your MR VR headset to guests. It will knock them out of their shoes if they never had VR before.



I have completely underestimated Mixed Reality in the years before. Also thinking of the sports games I do in MR, and Demeo.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWs55cFDdKA



And this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM-Y2RgTCaQ


Finally, in the christmas sale, I decided to try out (you can give stuff back within a certain timeframe, like with Steam games) something that i did not really expected to bind my interest for long, and I was indeed prepared for refunding it. Now I stay with it, and play it more and more. Fishing. Its another almost medidative relaxation experience, and it finds a perfect balance between playability (you do not want to wait half an hour for the line to show movement from a fish testing the bait, do you...), and replicating the challenges that there may be to bring some tricky fish, big fish back home without having it breaking the line. Well, I break it often. :) Its more challenging in the game than a noob like me who never did fishing in real life imagined. The sceneries are fully animated, full of life, and high resolution, its absolutely soothing to be out there. The controller gives good haptic feedback, very nuanced, there is a well-working system of achievements and incentives and stuff to buy to keep you interested. So: much much better and also more value for the money than I anticipated! Just understand that this is more on the relaxed experience-side of things, not an action game. I compare it to ETS2, or the above Ocean Rfit, stuff like these. Very laid back.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI3XuQJUq5M


How much I love my Quest 3! Another thing I had not expected: that it would take over so much from my PC VR gaming, except Racing and flightsimming I mirror PC stuff into the Quest 3 via Virtual Desktop (a must-have program).