View Full Version : Utah hospital nurse roughed up, arrested by cop for doing her job
This is seriously disturbing:
‘This is crazy,’ sobs Utah hospital nurse as cop roughs her up, arrests her for doing her job --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/?utm_term=.eabdcba3a613
This cop was way out of control and way out of line; I'm surprised the nurse has yet to file a lawsuit; if I were treated in that way or if someone in my family were so treated, I'd sue the cop and every SOB connected to him in his chain of command for everything they've got... :down: :nope:
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Jimbuna
09-01-17, 07:22 AM
This is seriously disturbing:
‘This is crazy,’ sobs Utah hospital nurse as cop roughs her up, arrests her for doing her job --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/?utm_term=.eabdcba3a613
This cop was way out of control and way out of line; I'm surprised the nurse has yet to file a lawsuit; if I were treated in that way or if someone in my family were so treated, I'd sue the cop and every SOB connected to him in his chain of command for everything they've got... :down: :nope:
<O>
Agreed :yep:
What an ass, I hope he gets the sack, arrogant pig!! :nope:
Aktungbby
09-01-17, 07:36 AM
In Minnesota at least: '(2) a physician, nurse, or other person providing health care services in a hospital emergency department' has 'peace officer status' as well as the police. I can't determine if Utah law has the same designation for its medical care personnel. A bit of a pissing contest over involved authority imho; The patient in question was an off-duty reserve-officer involved in a police chase related collision driving his truck. The blood draw was to be to his benefit not against him in a liability sense. said “implied consent” has not been the law in Utah (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ut-supreme-court/1102466.html)since 2007, and the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2016 that the Constitution permits warrantless breath tests in drunken-driving arrests, but not warrantless blood tests (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/14-1468.html). She stressed that the patient was always considered the victim in the case and never was suspected of wrongdoing. Both the officer and nurse consulted with their respective supervisors/ watch commanders( who actually advised the arrest for interfering) and acted according to superior's decisions. All points go toward the scrupulous nurse's favor here. Forcing a person wrongfully into the vehicle is kidnapping imho. Officer Payne is also in trouble for his on video remark about 'bringing 'good' patients elsewhere and 'the transients' to this facility' in the news report-implying less than equal treatment based on perceived economic status??!! http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-complying-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victim/ (http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-complying-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victim/)
I also noted Payne had been instructed by his Lieutenant to make the arrest, but I believe a more reasonable, rational person, unlike Payne, would have just put the two higher ups, the nurse's supervisor and the Lieutenant, on the line together and let them sort it out. Instead what they got was the ungodly mess preserved on video. I was also put off by the second cop, who I guess to be a field supervisor, trying real hard to rationalize the behavior of Payne and was very put off by the supervisor's frequent use of the terminology "my law", as in "Your policies are getting in the way of my law"; I didn't know the law was individuated to such a fine degree in Utah; foolish me: I thought there was only one law and that it is the same everywhere in the US...
That nurse deserves a very public and publicized apology from Payne and his superior(s); if he loses his badge, well, it seems like it will be no great loss...
<O>
Slightly OT, but how do the different "branches" (police, firefighters, EMTs etc.) see each other over in the US? Is there mutual respect between all parties, if they happen to be on scene at the same time?
Asking because I recall seeing few videos over the years where the police have been quite aggressive towards (IIRC) firefighters on scene, one I believe was even cuffed in one instance over seemingly small issue.
Example:
https://youtu.be/yNaXcYezt-8?t=50
Schroeder
09-01-17, 08:58 AM
Some cops surely seem to be retarded.
When watching police documentaries about US law enforcement I often had a feeling that some officers were on power trips (especially rural sheriffs and their deputies).:hmmm:
Rockstar
09-01-17, 09:02 AM
"That nurse deserves a very public and publicized apology from Payne and his superior(s); if he loses his badge, well, it seems like it will be no great loss..."
Spot on.
That lieutenant telling the nurse "If what they do is wrong ...it will all go away? Apparently he must be the training officer too.
When watching police documentaries about US law enforcement I often had a feeling that some officers were on power trips (especially rural sheriffs and their deputies).:hmmm:Yes, I think this has been talked about a few times in the past here. The US police seem to be trained to aggressively take hold of the situation right from the start. This is of course good in situations where the suspect may be of threat, but in others it might cause the suspect to feel cornered and become a threat.
This video imho gives a good view of the difference between the US police and the police in Nordic countries, it also touches on the training a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM9uCxEJDM
Rockstar
09-01-17, 09:11 AM
All the more reason 1033 equipment should be withheld from police departments. This is one area of concern I believe the media really needs to get involved with again and bring to the forefront
Rockstar
09-01-17, 09:37 AM
One Country: Finland area is approximately 130,500 square miles with a population of 5 million people.
One U.S. city: Los Angeles, CA covers an area approximately 500 square miles, population of 4 million people
It may take a different type of training to ensure survival where an extremely large and diverse population is jammed into such a small area. There is however no excuse for the abuse some go through because certain police officers forgot the protect and serve part of their job or seem to think they can impose their will upon another without restraint.
Aktungbby
09-01-17, 10:17 AM
That nurse deserves a very public and publicized apology from Payne and his superior(s); if he loses his badge, well, it seems like it will be no great loss...
She was an olympic skier...she deserves five minutes in a closed room with her ski-pole and the handcuffed idiot... No blows to be inflicted above the knees or below the collarbones. And she may not use the pointy end of the 'spear' to draw blood without a warrant!:03: Officer Payne, thus properly chastised and near retirement, will then be given a weaponless desk-job training police recruits on the difference 'twixt 'good patients and transients'.:O: but how do the different "branches" (police, firefighters, EMTs etc.) see each other over in the US? Is there mutual respect between all parties, if they happen to be on scene poorly! The Y chromosome deficient officer is often a pompous creature when imbued with 'peace officer' status.
Platapus
09-01-17, 11:42 AM
The police, being in the position to have the most effect on a citizen's constitutional rights, must be held to high standards for misconduct.
At least this officer did not "feel threatened" or the story could have been even worse.
Sailor Steve
09-01-17, 01:10 PM
I live in Utah, and I think I'm in agreement with everybody else here. This was wrong. I think the good news will turn out to be what has already been shown, which is that our opinions don't count, since both Utah law and the United States Supreme Court have both clearly stated that this officer's actions are not only wrong but emphatically illegal. Something like this should never have happened in the first place, and this officer should have known what the Law says on this subject, or if he didn't know then the correct course of action, since no one's life was in danger, would be to find out first.
It's an international story now. Have just read about it in a Danish news paper.
Markus
People like that are a disgrace and should be kicked out of the job and forced to walk around with a billboard stating they are a moron.
Gargamel
09-01-17, 03:52 PM
Slightly OT, but how do the different "branches" (police, firefighters, EMTs etc.) see each other over in the US? Is there mutual respect between all parties, if they happen to be on scene at the same time?
Asking because I recall seeing few videos over the years where the police have been quite aggressive towards (IIRC) firefighters on scene, one I believe was even cuffed in one instance over seemingly small issue.
Most of the time we were very respectful of each other, as we often needed support from each other in a variety of situations.
But, sometimes it does not go so well......
I was on a call once, don't remember the nature, but we pulled up at an apartment building. Gentle summer rain falling. PD pulled right in right behind us. We started unloading our gear to head inside, when one of the cops told us we can park there, it was a fire lane. We looked at him like he was crazy, maybe even joking, and proceeded to head inside, when he told us he would write a ticket if we left the truck there. We weren't sure if he was kidding or not, so we radioed for our supervisor to swing by to cover our butts if necessary.
We went in, and treated the patient, who refused transport and signed off. We went back out side, and sure enough, there was a ticket under our wipers. Now note, it was raining, and we had left our wipers on, so the ticket was slowly getting destroyed as the wipers went back and forth.
That's what caused me to laugh at the cop, and apparently he didn't like that. So it quickly started into a yelling match between me and the cop. My partner and his partner were standing on the curb staring at us like they couldn't believe this was happening, I couldn't either.
At this point our Supe rolled in and happened to park between the cop and I, so we were now screaming at each other through the Supe's open windows. He had no idea what he rolled into. Lot's of yelling, and the word arrest was mentioned. That's when I really lost it.
At that point, our parnters got smart. Mine said I was diabetic and was in need of a snack, I almost lost it (laughing) at that, as I knew what he was trying. The cop's partner just pulled the guy away gently.
Threw what was left of the ticket, now just a gooey paper wad, on the ground, got in the squad, and drove off. Never heard anything from it.
Another event happened to a guy a used to work with.
They had dropped off a patient at an ER, and were inside finishing up their paperwork, when their squad decided to drive off without them in it. Apparently a psych patient had walked out the door of the ED, and hopped in the truck.
The cops were called,, and shortly there after, somebody called the cops to say there was a running ambulance parked in their front yard a few blocks from the hospital. So the cops gave the medics a ride over to the their truck. The psych patient got arrested and all was good. Truck was fine, nothing missing.
Until they gave the cop their names for his report. For some reason he decided to run their names over the radio with them standing right there. Turns out one of the medics had an outstanding warrant for something stupid. And he got arrested for it.
Now that case is a cop doing his job too well, he could have just assumed the medics were clean and didn't need to run their names. But instead he chose to do so, in front of them, insulting them (I know I would be). Yes he was correct in doing it, and arresting the guy, but it was bad form.
The first case was just a (young) cop trying to be macho and throw his weight around. He also didn't know when to realize he was in the wrong and back down. I know I worked the guy up by arguing with him, but I was having a rough day and I just didn't want to deal with BS like this, so I vented on him.
That's the problem cops face. They think if they show weakness, people won't respect them, and minor scenarios like this one (and the OP) can snowball into something horrible. In my opinion, law enforcement should start in the field, and if a cop realizes he's made the wrong call, he should be smart enough to admit it, apologize if necessary, and move on.
Here's the latest on the rogue cop and the fallout from his idiocy:
The Latest: Officer who arrested Utah nurse put on leave --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-latest-police-apologize-after-officer-handcuffs-nurse/2017/09/01/b41ea806-8f33-11e7-9c53-6a169beb0953_story.html
4:30 p.m.
An Idaho police department is thanking a Utah nurse for stopping a Salt Lake City officer from obtaining a blood sample from one of their reserve officers who was unconscious in a hospital.
Police in the eastern Idaho town of Rigby said Friday that William Gray was severely injured in a Utah crash in July when the semi-truck he was driving for work was hit by another car.
Rigby police said in a statement they didn’t know until Thursday that the nurse was arrested after refusing to allow blood to be drawn from Gray.
The department thanked the nurse, Alex Wubbels, and hospital “for standing firm” and protecting the Gray’s rights.
It says he is still hospitalized.
I don't know what the law is in Utah, but here in California, there are statutes providing for the criminal prosecution of law enforcement officers who exceed the scope of their duties and physically assault a citizen; attached to the the basic assault charge is a special circumstance of assault under cover of authority, resulting in some heavyweight time...
I don't know if someone has better ears than mine, but at the end of the video, the officer who was wearing the body cam (good on him for not turning it off) approaches Payne and says, softly, to him something starting with "just a 10-14", police jargon for a piece of information, and then he says, "I'm not going...", and the rest I couldn't make out. As the officer turns away, the camera catches a security guard looking at the body cam officer with a strange expression on his face... :hmmm:
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Platapus
09-02-17, 10:27 AM
I am sure that in addition to criminal proceedings, there will be civil actions taken.
Since, according to reporting, the police officer Lieutenant authorized the officer to arrest the nurse, this goes beyond a single officer making a mistake. There seems to be problems at the departmental level.
The cop in the video now has the Feds taking a look at his actions:
FBI probing Utah cop who arrested nurse for refusing to draw blood --
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-utah-nurse/fbi-probing-utah-cop-who-arrested-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-idUSKCN1BJ2D0
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Jimbuna
09-09-17, 08:33 AM
I've certainly no sympathy for him.
Aktungbby
09-09-17, 12:20 PM
Officer Payne is also in trouble for his on video remark about 'bringing 'good' patients elsewhere and 'the transients' to this facility' in the news report-implying less than equal treatment based on perceived economic status??!!
Payne, who is currently on administrative leave from the police force, was fired on Tuesday from his second job as a part-time ambulance driver.
Gold Cross Ambulance service President Mike Moffitt told Reuters that Payne’s termination followed comments he made on the video suggesting that he would bring transients to University of Utah Hospital, while transporting “good” patients to another facility.
“Those remarks are just not reflective of our company’s philosophy and the service we provide, and because of that behavior we felt we had to separate ways,” Moffitt said. “Those remarks are just not reflective of our company’s philosophy and the service we provide, and because of that behavior we felt we had to separate ways,” Moffitt said WHA....!!! MR Moffitt reads my posts??!!:yeah: :O:
^ Well, someone has to... :03::haha:
I heard on the local radio there is audio of Payne being told by his colleagues prior to his meltdown and arrest of the nurse to "let it go" and that some means other than an immediate blood draw would be found/used to accomplish the task...
<O>
An update on the story; sometimes justice is served:
Cop who forcibly arrested nurse for refusing to draw blood is fired --
http://nypost.com/2017/10/10/cop-who-forcibly-arrested-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-is-fired/
It is pleasing to see appropriate action was taken and the matter was not just swept under the rug; of particular note is the mention of the demotion of the officer's supervisor down to officer; you don't often see discipline extended above the lower ranks...
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Platapus
10-11-17, 02:33 PM
Fired is a good first step. Will he be charged?
I also don't want him to go to another state and get another LE job.
Good point. The last I heard, the local DA was mulling charges and the FBI was involved over possible civil rights and other issues...
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Eichhörnchen
11-26-17, 09:54 AM
Another Police Department trying to self-destruct?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtfuxMVdVk
Another Police Department trying to self-destruct?
That's from 2014.
Eichhörnchen
11-26-17, 10:31 AM
Oh, okay... I was just sent it as current. Can't trust my sources :oops: I'll go and see what the latest is...
Eichhörnchen
11-26-17, 12:01 PM
Well... it looks as though he was still trying to make trouble as recently as April this year:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-reg-arnold-abbott-defiant-20170424-story.html
An update/FYI about the nurse, Alex Wubbels, who was assaulted in the video and the disposition of the matter:
Alex Wubbels, Utah Nurse Arrested For Doing Her Job, Reaches $500,000 Settlement --
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alex-wubbels-utah-nurse-settlement_us_59f98358e4b00c6145e290da
Payne was fired from the Salt Lake City Police Department last month. His supervisor, James Tracy, was demoted for the role he played in the nurse’s arrest.
No charges were ever filed against Wubbels.
On Tuesday, the nurse’s attorney, Karra Porter, said Wubbels would not be filing a lawsuit following the settlement with the city and the University of Utah.
Other than using part of the settlement to help others access police body camera clips, Wubbels said she planned to donate some of the $500,000 to the Utah Nurses Association and to support the national #EndNurseAbuse campaign.
Nurse Wubbels could have taken the PD and city to the cleaners for what happened, so its good to see she didn't try to take advantage and settled for what seems to be an appropriate offer. Its also good to see her putting the money to good use...
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Jimbuna
11-28-17, 05:36 AM
An update/FYI about the nurse, Alex Wubbels, who was assaulted in the video and the disposition of the matter:
Alex Wubbels, Utah Nurse Arrested For Doing Her Job, Reaches $500,000 Settlement --
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alex-wubbels-utah-nurse-settlement_us_59f98358e4b00c6145e290da
Nurse Wubbels could have taken the PD and city to the cleaners for what happened, so its good to see she didn't try to take advantage and settled for what seems to be an appropriate offer. Its also good to see her putting the money to good use...
<O>
That is one classy lady :yep:
Schroeder
11-28-17, 06:53 AM
As stupid as the cops move was and as much as I appreciate compensation for the nurse 500,000$ is completely excessive. That's tax money after all. Over here she would most likely have gotten 5,000$ if that much. Seriously half a million for being wrongfully arrested? :doh:
Onkel Neal
11-28-17, 06:58 AM
Yeah, legal damages here are crazy, they throw numbers around like they don't really mean anything.
Commander Wallace
11-28-17, 08:06 AM
As stupid as the cops move was and as much as I appreciate compensation for the nurse 500,000$ is completely excessive. That's tax money after all. Over here she would most likely have gotten 5,000$ if that much. Seriously half a million for being wrongfully arrested? :doh:
I think there is more to it than than that. The police violated the law they are sworn to uphold in falsely imprisoning and detaining her. I say that as she had to sit in a police car for 30 minutes or better while the police were figuring out what to do. The police disrupted hospital operation to a large degree and it's in that chaos that lives, including other hospital patients could have been lost.
The nurse ( Alex Wubbels ) who was detained was balancing 8 or more patients. Was the hospital able to divide her patients among the other nursing personnel who were there or did they have to pull another nurse from somewhere else ? The nurse herself could have seriously injured herself in the melee that followed. Did anyone consider the nurse could have been on blood pressure medication or statins which would reasonably preclude her from stressful situations like the encounter with the police. Could she have had a CV episode ( stroke ) ? The nursing duties she has are already stressful enough.
Half a million is not enough in my opinion but the money should come from the overly generous police pension fund. That is also payed by the taxpayers. It would hurt them where it counts. I'm sure if the police were paying for their stupid decisions themselves, they would start policing their own ranks and encounters like this would be a rarity.
Schroeder
11-28-17, 09:07 AM
The nurse ( Alex Wubbels ) who was detained was balancing 8 or more patients. Was the hospital able to divide her patients among the other nursing personnel who were there or did they have to pull another nurse from somewhere else ?
Has nothing to do with the personal compensation of Mrs Wubbels and is a different subject.
The nurse herself could have seriously injured herself in the melee that followed. Did anyone consider the nurse could have been on blood pressure medication or statins which would reasonably preclude her from stressful situations like the encounter with the police. Could she have had a CV episode ( stroke ) ? The nursing duties she has are already stressful enough.
Indeed, she could also have been struck by a meteorite in the police car or been abducted by aliens...Get real. As far as I know people don't get compensated for things that could have gone wrong but for those that did go wrong. Every time you drive your car things could go wrong yet we don't charge you for them because they didn't go wrong.
So what damage was done to Mrs. Wubbels? She went through the shock of being wrongfully arrested, was wrestled down without serious injury and spend half an hour in a police car. That has to be compensated for sure but is that worth half a million? Hell no. 50,000 would already have been too much IMHO. 5,000$ would be a real number for that in my books.
Commander Wallace
11-28-17, 09:37 AM
Has nothing to do with the personal compensation of Mrs Wubbels and is a different subject.
Indeed, she could also have been struck by a meteorite in the police car or been abducted by aliens...Get real. As far as I know people don't get compensated for things that could have gone wrong but for those that did go wrong. Every time you drive your car things could go wrong yet we don't charge you for them because they didn't go wrong.
So what damage was done to Mrs. Wubbels? She went through the shock of being wrongfully arrested, was wrestled down without serious injury and spend half an hour in a police car. That has to be compensated for sure but is that worth half a million? Hell no. 50,000 would already have been too much IMHO. 5,000$ would be a real number for that in my books.
I'm not sure if you watched the video that I did. Something did go wrong. Alex Wubbels was assaulted and the police engaged in reckless endangerment, false imprisonment, aggravated assault and official oppression and that's just for starters. These acts were committed by individuals being paid a generous salary to protect individuals from acts such as these.
You get real. we're not talking about meteorites falling out of the sky . Those are things that are beyond anyone's ability to control. We are talking about the felonious assault of a valued heath care worker, captured on video and being perpetrated by a sworn police officer. This is not the random acts you describe but rather premeditated acts by law enforcement officers who by definition, should know the law. There is a difference. Ironically, the individual that the police wanted the blood sample from was a fellow officer from another jurisdiction.
Further, Alex could have sued for far more. Remember, the half a million dollars being paid to her is a settlement. The city realized it would have lost far more in court. It is also an admission that the police and the city violated the law.
GoldenRivet
11-28-17, 05:52 PM
As stupid as the cops move was and as much as I appreciate compensation for the nurse 500,000$ is completely excessive. That's tax money after all. Over here she would most likely have gotten 5,000$ if that much. Seriously half a million for being wrongfully arrested? :doh:
perhaps, but you're looking at it from the wrong end.
truth is, settlements save money leaps and bounds above and beyond their own funds.
the city would have spent anywhere from 5 to 10 times that amount defending the officer in a drawn out battle in court.
If anything, the half million dollar settlement potentially saved the tax payers several million dollars
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