New theory on the CSS Hunley

[August]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4816684/Historic-submarine-crew-killed-weapon.html#ixzz4qctQO1Tc

The first combat submarine to sink an enemy ship also instantly killed its own eight-man crew with the powerful explosive torpedo it carried, new research has found.
The HL Hunley fought for the confederacy in the US civil war and was sunk near North Charleston, South Carolina, in 1864.
Speculation about the crew's deaths has included suffocation and drowning, but a new study claims that a shock wave created by their own weapon was to blame.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/23/17/437E62A900000578-4816684-The_first_combat_submarine_to_sink_an_enemy_ship_a lso_instantly_-a-70_1503505472856.jpg

The first combat submarine to sink an enemy ship also instantly killed its own eight-man crew (pictured) with the powerful explosive torpedo it carried, new research has found. A new study says a shockwave created by their own weapon was to blame

[Sailor Steve]

Now that is interesting. I've read about the H.L. Hunley for decades and new information is always welcome.

[Aktungbby]

FASCINATING-I LOVE THIS FORENSIC STUFF
The new evidence suggests that the Hunley positioned itself much closer to its target — the Union ship the USS Housatonic on Feb. 17, 1864 — than previously believed. The Hunley torpedo sank the Housatonic, becoming the world's first successful combat submarine. But after signaling to comrades on Sullivan's Island that the mission was accomplished, the Hunley and its eight-member crew vanished.
Conventional wisdom has held that the hand-cranked Hunley used a spar, or large pole, to ram a torpedo into the Housatonic's hull and then pulled away. It was further believed that once at a distance, the Hunley detonated the torpedo.
The new evidence suggests the Hunley was less than 20 feet away from its torpedo when it exploded. Remnants of the 2-foot-long torpedo were found bolted to the 16-foot-long spar.https://hunley.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/explosion.jpg

The discovery indicates that the torpedo, which held 135 pounds of gunpowder, did not separate from the spar but instead was placed under the Union ship. It was fired by command, not contact.
"There is overwhelming evidence to indicate this was not a suicide mission," South Carolina Lt. Gov. Glenn McConnell, a Hunley commissioner, said in a statement. "They must have believed this was a safe enough distance to escape any harm. If so, they were at least partially right. Thus far, no damage has been found on the actual submarine caused by the explosion." [QUOTE] Support for the argument of Hunley's brief survival is a report by the commander of Fort Moultrie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Moultrie) on Sullivan's Island that prearranged signals from the sub were observed, and answered; he did not say what the signal was. Further support comes from the testimony of a lookout on the sunken Housatonic, who reported seeing a "blue light" from his perch in the sunken ship's rigging. TWO SEPAREATE WITNESSES FROM EACH SIDE GIVES IT GREAT CREDENCE IMHO There was also a post-war claim that two "blue lights" were the prearranged signal between the sub and Fort Moultrie. https://hunley.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bluelight.jpg. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_USS_Housatonic#cite_note-4) "Blue light" at the time of the Civil War was a pyrotechnic signal. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_USS_Housatonic#cite_note-5) in long use by the US Navy. Modern claims in published literature on the Hunley have repeatedly and mistakenly been that the "blue light" was a blue lantern, when in fact no blue lantern was found on the recovered Hunley, and period dictionaries and military manuals confirm the 1864 use and meaning of "blue light."QUOTE] https://hunley.org/the-evidence/ (https://hunley.org/the-evidence/)# TOO, THE VIEW PORT IS SERIOUSLY MISSING AND A LARGE HOLE IS APPARENT AT THE COMMANDERS VIEWING STATION PORTHOLE. ALSO, THE HUNLEY HAD LOST TWO PREVIOUS CREWS IN TRAINING-THE VESSEL HAD TOUCHY STABILITY AT BEST- THE SHOCK MAY WELL HAVE FLOODED THE VESSEL AND/OR THE ASSISTING VESSEL, USS Canandaigua's WAKE MAY HAVE FLOODED THE ESCAPING DAMAGED SUBMARINE. :hmmm: https://hunley.org/the-hunleys-sinkings/ (https://hunley.org/the-hunleys-sinkings/)

[August]

The blue light and shock wave theories do seem to conflict. After all how could they signal after the attack if the explosion had already killed them?

[Jimbuna]

The blue light and shock wave theories do seem to conflict. After all how could they signal after the attack if the explosion had already killed them?

My thoughts precisely :yep:

[Aktungbby]

Kudos to the third crew for pure guts getting into such a craft with a proven failure rate; while not an outright suicide mission they must have had considerable presentiments of disaster... and a terrible resolve to carry out such a mission. The situation in a nutshell: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/PRESSURE_DISTRIBUTION_OF_WATER_NEAR_AN_UNDERWATER_ NUCLEAR_EXPLOSION.gif Required reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_explosion) The overall effect of an underwater explosion depends on depth, the size and nature of the explosive charge, and the presence, composition and distance of reflecting surfaces such as the seabed, surface, thermoclines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocline), etc. This phenomenon has been extensively used in antiship warhead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile) design since an underwater explosion (particularly one underneath a hull) can produce greater damage than an above-surface one of the same explosive size. Initial damage to a target will be caused by the first shockwave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockwave); this damage will be amplified by the subsequent physical movement of water and by the repeated secondary shockwaves or bubble pulse (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bubble_pulse&action=edit&redlink=1). Additionally, charge detonation away from the target can result in damage over a larger hull area. http://science.howstuffworks.com/explosion-land-water1.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/explosion-land-water1.htm) One hand grenade is in the pool (http://home.howstuffworks.com/swimming-pool.htm), the other is by your chair. Which blast is more dangerous? If you chose to jump in the pool rather than endure the explosion on land, we have some bad news for you: You made a disastrous decision. Assuming the blast from both hand grenades (http://science.howstuffworks.com/grenade.htm) was identical in strength and that you were the same distance from either blast, the underwater explosion, also known as an UNDEX, would be far more dangerous. Water (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/h2o.htm), however, is often described as incompressible. Technically, it can compress, but it takes a massive amount of pressure to apply a small amount of compression. This means that in an underwater explosion, the surrounding water doesn't absorb the pressure like air does, but moves with it. An underwater explosion doesn't propel objects through the water nearly as far as a surface explosion throws shrapnel because of the drag water exerts on objects. However, an underwater explosion transmits pressure with greater intensity over a longer distance.

[speed150mph]

I read an article today where a researcher disagreed with the "immediate death theory". He or she stated that given the pressure wave they experienced, it was likely that they suffered from blast lung, or pressure damage and bleeding in the lung. It went on to point out that this is fatal, but not immediately. If this is true it would explain how they were able to signal. They surfaced, gave the signal, submerged and succumbed to their injuries while below.

[Buddahaid]

https://wallofretro.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/clarence_williams_iii_mod_squad_1971.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help myself.....

[vienna]

...or, possibly, the Hunley was part of an early Confederate version of the 7th Fleet...




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